https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTrjo3V-NnQ
In the aftermath of the game last night, I didn’t feel like I had a lot to write down. I didn’t feel like I had a lot to say. I was heartbroken. Heartbroken for them and us. For all of them really. The old stager winning his last battle; the centre forward getting the goal he needed as Liverpool’s best player on the big stage. Heartbroken for the left back who does something bloody stupid. For the Reds who made Basel a sea of Red, who brought the party. For those of us at home who have had what feels like an eternity of a season, game after game after game. Heartbroken.
Of course there needs to be match reports and of course there will be emotional outpourings from supporters with phones and keyboards (i.e. all supporters). Rightly so. It is an emotional game, the wellspring of why we care is that the game has an emotional base.
What complicates and simultaneously over-simplifies matters for me is that one ninety minutes becomes defining and obscures everything that has gone before, everything that has been said, everything which is realistic. Klopp has repeatedly said he likes this squad. He has also repeatedly downplayed the importance of this final in his overall thinking. He’s completely right to do so. He has a series of decisions to make not on the basis of ninety minutes but on the basis of over fifty sets of them, over how he envisages and how he wants next seasons sets of ninety minutes to be, over what he sees in training, over data sets and gut instincts, over what one of his coaches thinks against what another one of his coaches thinks. He has to deal in the realm of the achievable. Even if he wanted to bomb all eleven who started last night out – which he won’t – he can’t. He and his team can only pour their energies into the plausible.
Five Things We Learned culture intensifies around the Big Game. The Big Occasion. There’s a rush to judgement, a rush to get content out. Get the clicks, sell the papers, fill the columns. We must have learned something from the football match. There must be something new to say. This x, this x we currently have must lead to a y.
But what if y is happening anyway? What if y – using as an example, y being Liverpool looking to sign a left back who can fucking defend – what if y is already ongoing?
The point is this: the result and performance last night will change very little about Jurgen Klopp and his team’s plans for the summer. It will change very little about Jurgen Klopp’s Liverpool tenure, other than meaning he has only made two finals this season rather than won one trophy and made one final.
And that’s the way it should be. If you want a well run football club then wheels have to be constantly in motion. That’s the nature of being on a journey – all you can influence is the quality of the process, not the definitive outcome. If we want to be on the march with Kloppo’s army then we need to accept that there is a nerve centre we will never see making decisions for reasons that go back weeks and months and stretch weeks and months into the future. Last night doesn’t change the journey and we cannot forget what has gone before. These players got Liverpool to the final, winning some big games along the way. Some may not be here when we get to the promised land. That is football. The joy is in the journey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxo8NK5UPu4
For me, the only real question, the only real thing I’d like someone to explain to me about last night concerns the manager himself. Why he made no attempts to change it from the bench between the two Sevilla goals? I’ve been thinking about little else.
There is a constant discourse that Liverpool need a controlling midfielder in a general sense. This may or may not be true, but what is the case is that there were three people sat next to Jurgen Klopp in the technical area better at that kind of thing and of more use to get Liverpool a foothold back in the game than James Milner. That isn’t to say Milner off should have been the change. Arguably Coutinho or Firmino should have been the change. Possibly even Moreno could have been the change and Milner could go to left back. Whatever you want. But Liverpool made no attempt from the bench to regain a foothold in the game.
I’m left wondering why.
The manager knows far more about football than both you and I. He knows his players as well. But it seemed strange to me this change never came. It was strange at home to Newcastle too. Close the game down. Kill it. Get through the next fifteen minutes at 1-1 (or 2-1 against Newcastle). Make it ugly and then push on late in the match.
He showed no sign of doing that.
So why?
There has been lots and lots of talk of shape since Klopp came in. He was at pains during his first press conference to emphasise the importance of a clean sheet. We’ve seen defenders improve under him. Over the course of this season though Liverpool have become more expansive and have scored more goals, yet they have still let leads slip with regularity. That 1-1 became 2-1 shouldn’t have come as a surprise to the manager.
Perhaps he thought that none of the options on the bench would do what he needed them to do well enough to sacrifice some perceived potency. Perhaps he thought that the game was about to snap back towards Liverpool; that Sevilla couldn’t keep this up.
Fundamentally though, there is this – he is an optimist. This Liverpool manager is an optimist and he thinks his players are good players and he will back them while they are playing for him. He is not standing there imagining the worst.
Gerard Houllier was not an optimist. He was a pessimist. He only ever lost one final as a manager – an U21’s game. When he told me about it he remembered it in detail. He didn’t remember the wins as well. Why would he? They were wins. They weren’t something to worry about. But defeats, defeats are things you worry about. Defeats keep you up nights.
He only ever lost one final as a manager. His sides could win if the worst happened – if they played poorly they could win. This was his biggest concern – ensure this above everything else.
This isn’t to say that approach is the preferable one – for instance Houllier’s Liverpool side went on an infamously long run without being able to fashion a comeback from half-time deficit. Some would argue preparing for the worst never allowed them to become the best. It is merely to point out that the Liverpool manager is and has to be his own man. That he has to be himself. As soon as he isn’t then there are problems. Gerard Houllier got a lot right as Liverpool manager. He got a lot right from the bench. But the substitution everyone remembers is Dietmar Hamann off. The substitution which didn’t feel like a Gerard Houllier substitution.
There is every chance Jurgen Klopp didn’t try to kill the game because he thinks that isn’t what Jurgen Klopp does. The man who demands emotional football doesn’t do that kind of thing. The man who lives every minute as though it is his last doesn’t like to take a backwards step with potentially forty minutes of the football match left. He doesn’t want to send that message to his team or to their supporters. He doesn’t want to send that sort of message to himself, lose his essence in one game, not when he wants to manage Liverpool his way for five hundred of them. The prospect of defeats doesn’t seem to be keeping Jurgen Klopp up nights. That isn’t the way he wants to be Liverpool manager.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ucE3hr8R-M
I’m an optimist as well. And I am certain that to do what need, what we crave and have craved for 26 years will take an optimist. It’ll take someone who plans for the best and moves constantly towards it, not getting distracted. Even then it might not work, but this is the only way it will work. Fixating not on one game but on working out thirty eight of them. Making decisions based upon how best to reach the promised land need to be considered. There won’t be five of them to make after every game. There won’t be something clean and easy. The manager will get things wrong as will his players. Even the best planned journeys can end up in cul-de-sacs. So there shouldn’t be scapegoating or slaughtering. There will be a gang of lads doing their best and sometimes their best won’t be good enough but they will be all Reds while here. They may then move on and someone else has a go. That’s football. It’s every enterprise worth undertaking.
Thirty eight league games next season. We have time to train. Thirty eight cup finals. We will use it. That’s the aim. That’s the journey. That’s the point. That’s why he is here, why we want him to be himself. He’s come here to do a job and he has a job to do. He’ll have to be DEAD Jurgen Klopp to do it.
Last time this season with love for everyone:
Let’s go Reds. Into these.
This.
It’s a fucking horrible day. It was a confusing horrible night..a “what the fuck just happened?”night.
But we go again. We’ll get there in the end – wherever there is.
But let’s not hang everyone who got us there out to dry…it’s football. Shit happens.
What the fuck does “we’ll get there in the end,wherever there is’ actually mean?
Good one. Well played sir.
You got me.
Winning the league. Whatever Liverpool do this summer and next season has to be towards winning the league and nothing else.
don’t envy you guys having to write about liverpool after games like this. I’ve had enough of football for this season, will avoid the euros too.. no footy all summer then slowly the transfer gossip will reel me slowly back in in time for new season.
its the hope that kills you…
Nicely done, Neil, and a great sense of perspective on what was a crushing evening. I agree with everything you said, but even though he’s been a manager for 15 odd seasons now, isn’t it also fair to suggest that Klopp might himself evolve *without* being anything other than Jurgen Klopp? It does happen. Take Ferguson, for example: he did alter his game plans over the years, his preferred style, his brand of game management – mightn’t Klopp evolve like that as well? I get what you’re saying, in the short-term him being him to the nth degree is the best way forward, but if we want continuing and sustained success, ideally under him, then maybe he might need to do that, and do it organically. Plus a shedload of great players, obviously. He’s obviously a fantastically intelligent man, and he was open about taking the blame. Let’s just hope we have a good summer and we get off to a flyer next season. This is a young team. Some of these lads are good enough, some might prove good enough in the longer term and others won’t, but ideally we won’t be in the next final wondering where we turn for on-field leadership and wise heads.
Well, yes, I’m sure Alberto Moreno does feel heartbroken. But he’s done this kind of thing how many times now? How many games lost due to his mistakes? OK so he doesn’t select himself, but we have to get rid and buy someone who can defend.
Hard to sum up how I feel today, definitely not heartbreak, I was heartbroken after Athens when we were the better side and Milan won, that was heartbreak as it was difficult to take
This was difficult to stomach in a different manner. First half we were just the less shitter of the two sides, we weren’t great at all, scored a lovely goal and had momentum for the last ten minutes of the half. The most difficult was watching how our lot completely bummed it as soon as they equalised, the shift in desire, attitude and momentum was clear. They weren’t great, didn’t have to be, but to me and more importantly they looked like a side that knew what it took to win. In that respect hopefully we can take a positive out of this and learn from the experience.
Even their second looked easy on the eye and the product of a slick passing move, look at the replay and its was just so easy to carve us open. I’ve known for a long time Moreno is a liability, we all do, thinking that this kids lack of thinking can sometimes be the difference between winning and losing trophies. Unfortunately he proved this right to an extent, not saying the reason we got beat was solely his fault, but I’m sure Klopp has told the players to expect a Sevilla reaction at half-time and keep it tight til 60 minutes. That brain dead fuckwit went and got all Alby Moreno on us started our demise.
You watch their first goal back and watch it again and again and then think to yourself how do you make that decision. He see the run, he see the cross, he sees Phil in acres of space and then he heads it to the lad out wide, then he runs over and instead of arcing his run to force the lad down the line & stand him up he runs straight over the ball. It’s brainless and he’s brainless at either end of the pitch.
Clyne is a full back he does full back stuff and then he looks to offer going forward but on the whole he’s a full back. Moreno is a clown and it’s his pace at either end that gets him up and down. At the key points the actual decision making he’s shit and he’s been shit since Man City away in his first season where his decision making was slow, nothings changed.
That said I thought the interview with Sid was bang on and all the shite about they only finished 8th in the league was just that. where did we finish???
They target that cup one because it’s a cup and it’s the only real chance of success in & out of Spain but now in the last 2 seasons the bean counters will be rubbing their hands together.
We did the same and you can’t knock that approach the idea of leap frogging the club forward was a sound one and the European nights have been special. Their league form has probably been parallel to ours, forgoiing the league for the cup, yes it’s a gamble but a worthy one.
Surprised at Klopp for not bringing Allen on earlier to shore up the midfield and then towards the end the game had gone so far the way bringing on strikers just seemed very last throw of the dice.
The sadder thing is that both City & Utd have literally fallen over staggered pissed towards the 4th spot and look at the points we’ve dropped since Southampton.
Football, like ale & hangovers, after a few days yer back on it.
How have both United and city fallen over 4th place?
Figure of speech, have a look at their form in their last 6 games, it’s a joke from both of them.
In the end Spurs did what they do and fall apart and Arsenal have a go when there’s nothing to play for. The whole league this season has been yes exciting but ultimately the quality has been shit.
On a wider note the PL needs to get it’s shit together on the whole European front City and us did it a favour this year but if Italy get their shit together next year and we don’t then there is a risk we lose that 4th CL spot to them.
It’s been a shit season. Anyone trying to tell me Leicester winning is great can, frankly, fuck off
Better still,why don’t you fuck off?
We’re all Reds here lads.
Proof further of this squads mediocrity. As if the shit league finish…the lowest in 60 years wasnt enough.
This shite that having fewer games to play is a positive so we better placed to qualify for more games is losers talk. And it’s fucking nonsense.
The only reason Klopp moans as about the number of games is because the owners won’t buy a squad with a sufficient depth of quality to be rotated…the sqaud we have lacks quality and is thin. The number of games is irrelevant. How can we hope of winning the double or treble unless we play the games. Just more shite to placate greedy bastard cheap skate owners.
Last night was an all or nothing game, We got nothing with added humiliation. That second half was embarrassing, especially when watched by so many.
FSG have been here 6 years going into 7.
All we have had is talk of “projects” and a “bright” future, we 6 years is long enough to realise the future is more 10-20m punts, more kids with no mental resilience, injury prone bargains and more mid table finishes.
The notion Klopp has the ability to train mediocrity into world class is delusional. He is no alchemist. A charismatic manager whose honeymoon is truly over. He now needs quality…not potential…to play with. The hope of finding a Vardy or Mahrez is lottery hope stuff.
The future is our past and always will be whilst owned by FSG.
Had Rodgers managed that season , finishing 8th to fail so massively in a final he would be in the plane to Boston as Dalglish was. But Klopp is new.
Forgetting the Charisma and laughing , that was a shite season, and I for one am glad it’s over . If we have to endure the same sqaud again next season, anyone could forgiven for lacking belief.
But the futures bright..we have Klopp… right? Just don’t ask why, don’t question, just blindly follow and get your money out.
Nobhead. Really can’t be arsed with this bollocks every time we lose.
If you can’t be arsed why read it and why comment ?
What he really meant to say is he can’t counter the points and is a thick cunt
I read it you prick. Then decided it’s the same bollocks you always write. Then decided I’m not arsed with it.
But you still commented, despite being “not arsed”
So who is the prick?
I agree that we have been reduced to mediocrity over several decades now, even before FSG. It must be noted how much Brendan spent and what he bought.
Hey mushroomscouser
I think most agree that the squad is not good enough. No adequate cover at left back, for instance, is one big question mark many, if not all, are asking. Seven months ago all we spoke about was the transfer committee and how broken the system was.
But it’s also true that Klopp has got this mediocre squad playing some exciting, passionate (yes, inconsistent) football. They gave us some incredible memories this season and certainly got me over the funk of the previous 18 months.
Is it good enough? Of course not. Winning trophies is the only thing that will satisfy. But if you’re not filled with hope that our future is brighter having witnessed these seven months, then I’m not sure spending money of 40 million pound players will help.
We have one big part of the puzzle now in place, a manager who can take us places. His track record shows he can find better players at the same prices, if not cheaper, than what’s happened over the past 3-5 years.
The future is not our past. It’s yet to be written. And if Klopp can get this mediocre squad to two finals (where there inexperience was horribly exposed, true), it’s exciting to think what he can do when he starts to buy his own players.
It is exciting what he could do if he buys his own players.
That is the point of the comment…that we need players and that he is allowed to buy his own players and doesn’t have players foisted upon him like Benteke.
Whether FSG will continue in the same vain as previously, is the question hence my stating “our past is our future” and Klopps could comments on experience leading to the conclusion that next year’s squad will very similar to this years.
Yeah, I see what you’re saying but FSG didn’t choose to buy Benteke et al. It was the transfer committee/Rodgers, a system that was very broken.
FSG haven’t bank rolled the squad (and they never promised to do so, nor do they have the means to do it, something we all knew upfront), but they haven’t been miserly either. The problem is how the money has been spent. And Liverpool have got this wrong for a long time, longer than FSG’s tenure. But for a year or two under Houllier and Rafa’s second and third year (in my opinion), we’ve consistently overpaid for under-performers. And the biggest issue I have with the Rodgers era is the imbalance of the squad.
That all said, in Klopp we may have the solution. Time will tell, but it appears that he can spot a good-to-great player and that he can get the best out of a average-to-good player, too.
FSG will continue to pay the money (not as much as we probably want, but then we’ll never be happy, will we?), but in Klopp, the hope stirs again and the excitement bubbles up. Surely this is enough to assuage our deep-set despair and break through the blue funk of the past number of years?
In my weakest moments, I dread a future where even Klopp fails, and then I’m at a total loss. But hey, belief + Klopp is the only way forward now.
*Dale*
Oops! I can’t even spell my name right.
Your rambling now. Thats not the point you made. Benteke was Brendan’s choice.
It’s dickheads like you that do my head in. Forget all the good just to moan about the bad.
Moreno needs investigation, he was clearly still playing for Seville. Given he was born bred and true Seville, and he can’t defend, you question why he was played. And realise, we had no one else because the squad is so thin and under invested.
‘Had Rodgers managed that season , finishing 8th to fail so massively in a final he would be in the plane to Boston as Dalglish was. But Klopp is new.’
You must see the difference between these two managers and the mitigating circumstances associated with this season?
Klopp retains belief because of what he has shown, not because of what we think he might. He has delivered things already that Rodgers didn’t get close to. That isn’t a slight on Brendan, it’s just true.
So only one manager gets the benefit of mitigating circumstances? I’m not sure what Klopp has delivered. Belief? In no short supply this time two seasons ago. Except Rodgers delivered Champions League football. Klopp nearly won the Europa League. Rodgers nearly won THE league. Which would you prefer?
Last season we had no quality strikers, and yet we finished with two more points in the league and two places higher.
I wouldn’t trade Klopp for Rodgers, but I think it is cheap the way people use Rodgers as shorthand for incompetence. The 84 points we won in 13/14 would have won this league with 3 points and a +29 goal difference to spare. More wins than any Liverpool manager in the PL era. And more wins at Anfield. Give the man his due.
As for Klopp, onwards and upwards. We have some lovely memories to savour. Remember that glory is in the moments. Everything will return to dust, even trophies. But the moments are eternal.
Lovren will be forever suspended in air, celebrating the winner against Dortmund.
footy is officially shit today and will be for the rest of the week
when do the fixtures come out ?
I see the differences between the managers, but not in the sqaud.
You can’t say improvements in players like Lovren would not have happened under Rodgers.. some players take longer to settle.
My belief in Klopp is total. My belief he will be given funds to return us to competing in the league is zero.
How can you believe after that season this group of players are anywhere near competing for the league?
‘My belief in Klopp is total. My belief he will be given funds to return us to competing in the league is zero.’
That’s fair enough. However, I do think a manager of Klopp’s calibre is far more likely to effect an improvement (vast) in a player like Lovren than someone like Rodgers. Toward the end Rodgers became more interested in covering and protecting himself from blame.
I don’t believe this group of players can compete for the league, but then I don’t believe this group of players will still be together come the start of next season.
Given the comments by Klopp on experience and the value of further of training, I get the impression next years sqaud will be similar to this years.
There will most definitely be additions in key areas. Karius and Zielinski look nailed on, the Gotze link is still around and I am sure we will strengthen further at the back, almost certainly at left-back.
karius will be no2 gk. Zielinski will be in the mix with firmino lallana etc.
Grujic is maybe not quite ready at 19.
Matip probably a starter.
Majority of the lads last night will go again next season.
Can’t wait to see heads falling off in our fan base.
Goetz won’t be coming.
We are mid table with a wage cap.
‘Can’t wait to see heads falling off in our fan base.’
Doubtless they will. I don’t think we will have the clear-out some our predicting, more like targeted positions will be strengthened.
There are a number of players in our squad whose performance level goes up with that of the team. A couple of quality additions as opposed to an upheaval could have a really good impact.
I think the pre-season will tell us everything in respect of funds but then again I don’t think Klopp is the type of manager that makes too many big money buys. I just want him to get a modern version of Souness for centre-mid. Never gonna happen I know.
Yes two positives. I think that result drove a big tank through The Cult of Klopp which was threatening to be bigger than Liverpool Football Club.The myth that the current squad is good enough and only needs fine tuning was exploded also. There is a major rebuild needed here and hopefully will include the recruitment of some players with some balls for a fight
There is a sense of failing better about this year’s Europa League and League Cup runs. Two finals as opposed to two semi-finals last year (swapping the FA Cup for the Europa League here obviously). That itself is growth. This team didn’t have a Didi or a Gary Mac or a Babbel. They’re having to learn how to do this big showpiece final thing without too many players who have been there and done it.
You hope it will make them better players. Last time a lot of this squad came so close to winning something they had a manager who’d never won anything himself. The experience is key.
You have to feel there is is more to come.
Totally agree on the lack of experience/nous shout,
We have very few trophy winners in the squad, lads who have been there and done it, lads with lumps & bumps as my aul fella calls em,
Heads went after the equaliser and we desperately needed a Didi like persona to get on the ball and direct traffic whilst buying a few dodgy free kicks,
Jurgen played down the fact that Sevilla had won the last 2 finals but it showed last night at times.
*Clap, clap, clap* Kudos to you Neil and all the contributors at TAW.
This article is just brilliant, thoughtful, insightful and bang-on. Not sure how you do it. I’m still a horrid, groaning dark twist of conflicting emotions.
I particularly found myself nodding at (1) your point that one game doesn’t change the exciting process we’re in as a football club, and gobsmasked at (2) your insight into Kloppo’s mindset (in contrast to Houllier).
I think you nailed the reason behind Kloppo’s decision making.
Very thoughtful article, I was thinking the very same thing. Where was the tactical change , why just more of the same. Optimism is a lovely quality but so is being obdurate and gnarly. Just getting over the line is what ultimately matters.
I hope we are not seeing a an emerging flaw of tactical inflexibility in Jurgen
I agree, it could be a flaw but my own optimism is based much more on Klopp’s league record. His one off finals record is not good but by the same token, he has got his teams to a lot of finals in a diverse number of competitions. We’re all down at the moment but the context is that this is very early days. After Southampton we clearly prioritised the Europa. Looking back it could be argued that we would surely have got those few (6/7?) points if we’d really have gone for it in the league. The thing is, we had the chance of a trophy plus a CL place rather than go the Arsenal route of just a 3/4 th placed finish. I think it was worth a try as I would always prefer the chance of a trophy, especially a European one. On the bright side, next season we will hopefully see more clarity and focus in the league. Klopp threw the dice this season and did extraordinarily well (however shite it feels now). I cannot wait to see the results of a half decent pre-season with some new faces. All the best.
Winning teams have players in them who know instinctively when to kill a game off or to close a game down for 10 minutes. They don’t need a manager or coach to tell them.
We failed on both counts just before and just after half time. That’s why we lost. Not enough of those types of players.
But remember,it’s only football folks. Despite what Shanks might or might not have said there are more important things. And there’s always another game and another season.
Keep the faith.
Thanks for writing today Neil, I don’t envy you, also having the conviction to do the Pink last night. I agree with all you say here. It did seem like we all knew we needed another midfielder on, but then, I don’t think any of the options were significantly better than what we had on the pitch. Maybe just the fact that we would have an extra body in the middle but you’re right, Jürgen was possibly backing his picked 11 to show a bit more and was caught between being more cautious or optimistic. We love the boss because he IS optimistic and (possibly finals aside), believes in his own methods which have served him so well. I don’t want a manager losing faith a la Brendan. I don’t really want to bring him up but he seemed to lose faith in his own ideals after a few results early in 14/15. The difference I feel, is that Klopp knows what he can do. I don’t want to rubbish a player but who could possibly legislate for a left back making such a TERRIBLE gaff Seventeen SECONDS into a second half. I really felt that stunned us and then the doubts and nerves seemed to affect everyone. Is it too finicky of me to be a tiny bit (just a really teensy bit) critical of Sturridge for lurking offside when Lovren headed in? I know…too harsh, but, I thought possibly that the adrenalin from just scoring (gorgeous goal) maybe stopped him being a little cuter. Another goal would’ve…….Oh hell, we lost a European final but we only lost a major European final….BECAUSE WE GOT TO A EUROPEAN FINAL. Only three other sides in the whole of Europe, all those hundreds, thousands? of clubs, can say they did that this year. Fear not, we are in perpetual motion, and headed in the right direction. All the best to all Reds.
Ps- I Say “thanks for doing the Pink last night”, because it actually made me feel a little bit better, possibly a ‘misery loves company ‘ thing but when I got home from the pub I was totally down. I know this may sound a little ‘One love/ Circle of life’-esque nonsense but hearing you three utterly bereft and abject kinda’ reminded me, in a visceral sense that I was part of something…bigger! Yes, I know, it’s deffo’ a bit ‘hakuna matada’ but I’m being honest, so…thanks again to everyone who was involved.
The Studge thing couldn’t really be helped as they all pushed out immediately on the outswinging corner, and his job was to interfere with the keeper. Maybe we weren’t prepared for them using that (rather rare) ploy to defend corners.
Even had he not touched the ball he would/should have been blown up for offside , being right in front of the keeper like he was.
Tough to take especially when they were playing with 3 keepers (!!), but they definitely had the winning mentality in spades vs. us. We’ll come back mentally stronger for the experience, I feel. Well, I hope anyhow…
Yeah, I know you’re right, just looking for things to latch on too! I think there’s definitely something in the fact that we generally win games by playing well in one half (usually first, sometimes second). I wonder if that is a reflection of the lack of training time this season. I’m hoping that this is a sign that we are adapting to the boss’s methods, but not fully there yet. If so, a full pre-season and some quality signings should see us really push on.
*to* (not too).
Tough loss to swallow given the route taken to reach the final. Spot on about the midfield change that never happened. The game was screaming for Klopp to take off one of our #10’s(invisible #10’s) and put on someone to help fight in the middle. As painful as it is to think about, thinking about it is all I’ve been able to do. The only silver lining I can conjure is the twisted and painful irony that Klopp lifted and elevated someone else’s squad to two finals…someone else’s squad that had late collapses written in their DNA. That, after licking his wounds he’ll remold the squad in his image and come back firing on all cylinders. That Euros be damned, I can’t wait for August. Liverpool. Liverpool. Liverpool.
Funny season,
We came into on the back of the 6-1 humiliation by Stoke, kept a manager nobody had faith in and bought a 32 million pound striker that very few thought would suit our style of play. Yesterday afternoon I thought about this, and the idea that we come out of all this as losers in one final and a European Trophy and a group stage CL qualification. I then thought is getting into the CL a good thing for this squad? Part of me thought yes but the other no. Is the CL a good thing, does it make you lose focus? does it spread you too thin? Would we not be better off getting all these young and new players to gel and have time with Klopp on the training pitch? The league is our bread and butter but when did we focus on it last for a whole season? 13/14 No distractions, Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Henderson and Gerrard, we scored loads of goals but conceeded 1 for every 2 we scored. We have become better at defending under Klopp but last night exposed the folly of not buying a proper DM since Mascerano. Maybe we need to forget about Europe and Anfield under lights for a season to regroup, focus on the league and then qualify for the CL having learned how to defend and play the Klopp way. Without solid foundations you cannot progress, maybe this squad needs a year to build those foundations, win the league and then conquor Europe.
This squad win the league? Are you serious?
Did you watch the game last night? Or notice our league performance?
Alright Shroom, reel it in a little will ya, we all get it, you don’t rate this squad.
Yes, the current champions are Leicester; all the teams in europe next year do not have the squads to battle on two fronts, LFC and Chelsea have an advantage of no European football.
Regarding this squad, it has missed for large parts of the season; Sturridge, Ings, Divvy, Henderson, Gomes and Sakho. The team that beat Dortmund had Divvy Sakho and Emre in great form, had those players been fully fit for the final then the outcome may have been different.
Next year there will be Matip, Grujic, Markovic their for pre-season and their will be money from the sale of Benteke, Balo and quite a few others.
The point of my post, if you bothered to read it through your fume, is that this is a very good squad if it is fighting only on one front, but, not strong enough to fight on two fronts. Sometimes it is better to crawl before you walk.
Wanted the wembley Milner to left back change too, Neil. Flanagan not being in the European squad was always a bit mad. Say what you want – a club will never come in and pay a fee for him and he hasn’t got a photogenic face for Nivea ads – but the lad sees stopping balls coming in as part of his job and that’s got nothing to do with who’s scouse or who’s Spanish or whatever. Moreno’s a left back who can take or leave actually defending. 17 seconds into second half play? I’m still reeling from it. Hopefully Moreno went home on their coach.
I’m probably being a miserable sod here but fuck it: the ‘Sakho’s on the magic, Everton are tragic!’ bantz chant in town after we’d just lost a European final… Just no. I’m failing to see the funny side of Liverpudlians singing about Everton after that. In fact I find it so, so sad. This city has become full of small time, try hard, bed wetters.
Can’t wait for Sevilla to finish 3rd in their champions league group then win the Europa for a fourth time in a row next season. Fucking weirdos. Maybe they’ve got another terrible defender we can lash a load of money at them for.
They hadn’t won a la liga away game all season and the fans who went to Basel couldn’t have made it feel anymore like a home game. Frig off Liverpool. And while I’m on one any nerds who say they’d still sell Sturridge should be banned from Anfield for life. Zero tolerance on bad dickheads who know fuck all. His finishing is up there touching the Suarez level ffs
“Fucking weirdos” ha ha,
I needed a laugh, bang on the money regarding Studge but he’s definitely not proper fit and looked ballbagged with 20 to go and also looked well off the pace on the left wing at one stage chasing a ball.
“Fucking weirdo’s”, I don’t know why but that is bloody funny! There is definitely something odd about winning the Europa league every year. It’s an achievement, but it’s still odd. The Europa is a great cup but, it’s one you want to win every now and then after doing well in the CL. Don’t get me wrong, the Sevilla model makes sense in their situation but there’s a dichotomy in winning it year on year, especially when it carries a CL spot because you’re always dropping down to win it. They were much more gracious than Villareal to be fair, definite weirdo’s though. :)
We have a better squad than Leicester. If we improve in the summer no reason we can’t win the league. I understand any negativity, it’s hard losing like that. I feel positive about where we are going though and would rather hold onto that. I’d rather be us than arsenal or Chelsea or man city right now. Minor adjustments is all we need.
If Leicester won the league whilst we finished in the lowest position for 60 years, how can you qualify the statement “We have a better squad than Leicester”?
I am genuinely interested
You’re right, Leicester have turned up almost every league game this year. That is a winning mentality and inner strength which we have been badly lacking.
Nah we dont.
Thanks, Neil, for this great piece. Philosophical and logical.
If there was an honorary doctorate on LFC, you and your TAW colleagues truly deserve that.
I self imposed news blackout for a full day because I just could not bear to recall the match. I feel for the manager, the players and especially for al the fans.
And not about to hang anyone to dry just yet.
Let’s stay positive. Two finals are better than two semis. Much exciting memories this season. Most important of all we all know that we will be better next season under Klopp.!!!
Cheers.
Jurgen played very conservative tactics out in Villarreal for the 1st leg of the semi so he is not against killing a game to get a result like Houllier so often did.
I don’t know why he didn’t go negative last night after Gameiro nearly scored twice before their 2nd goal even arrived. He should have got one of the front players off and Allen or Lucas on to help break up Sevilla’s momentum. Unfortunately he did nothing until it was too late. Not sure what was going through his head, but he needs more help from assistants if he’s not seeing clearly
because that’s not his style, it’s the point of the article.
Gutting and gutted. No Europe next year so no excuses nowhere to hide. Fingers crossed for the good red performance to become the standard red performance. Up the reds. Fuck the rest.
a very insightful piece as usual, neil.
You can’t analyse one game, particularly one as mad as last nights match and arrive at anything meaningful,, but what you can do is look at the trends that we have seen all season and even before that.
1) Keeper instils zero confidence with his communications, kicking or catching.
2) Left back can’t defend, doesn’t understand where he should be playing and is a mad fucker.
3) Centre back cover is essential.
4) We need a leader in midfield – someone like Souness or Gerrard or Carragher would have dragged that game back by the scruff of its neck last night by sheer force of personality.
5) Coutinho will be gone by start of the season – he’s looked out of sorts for ages, since he was being lured away by Barca. Great player but we need to plan without him, unfortunately – and that doesn’t mean buying yet another number 10
6) Attacking formations are all about mobility, movement and guile. We tried Carroll, Mario, Lambert and Benteke and it doesn’t fuckin work. Full stop.
7) The players-out-on-loan situation needs sorting out. There’s no point having a dozen players kicking around the continent when we don’t need a massive squad.
So that’s the score, based on what we’ve seen for months. Last night was a one off – but it was a game that re-in forces a number of factors that Klopp has known about for months.
The good news, is that it’s not hard to sort out. He will sort it out and I know next season will be boss.
Renewed my season ticket last night to cheer myself up…. Up the Reds!
Agreed with your points except point #5. He will come good.. But without European Football next season, we surely can’t keep all the attackng players in the team for sure (even before bringing in reinforcements)-
Benteke, Sturridge, Origi, Ings, Lallana, Coutinho, Bobby, Ibe, Ojo, Marcovic, etc
Point #5, he isn’t a great player and he won’t want another splinters in the arse Inter experience.
Match Ratings :)
Mig: 6 ~ goals were not his fault (then again he had a number of clean sheets this season without having to make a save)
Clyde: 7 ~ consistently consistent, player of the season in my opinion (since when right backs won POTS awards?)
Moreno: 3 ~ consistently inconsistent (enough said)
Kolo: 7 ~ experience and class showed in big games
Lovren: 5 ~ sub par performance, along with most teammates
Milner: 5 ~ big game experience didn’t show up
Can: 5 ~ no big game experience show
Lallana: 5 ~ expected more from him
Bobby : 4 ~ against all hope, wrong Bobby showed up last night
Coutinho: 5 ~ against hope, I am still hoping that the team would still be built around his creativity
Sturridge: 6 ~ Always delivers his role—to score. Hope to see him winning with us, for us.
Allen, Origi, Benteke: a good run out.
Thanks and so long to Lucas and Skertl.
Top class to get this out Neil, if I can be so bold. Couldn’t agree more with you, especially in the way we looked like we wouldn’t change things, baffled me too.
I honestly don’t think I’ve felt so devastated, even when we didn’t ‘quite’ win the League – back then, I kind of expected to fall at the final hurdle. Unfortunately, I’ve never been an optimist.
It was the manner in which we collapsed, surely, which did for me. All this crazy talk digging out the owners and scapegoating players achieves precisely nothing. They are our owners, and if anyone wishes that they weren’t, let them state here and now for the record who it should be, because I believe FSG are determined to increase the value of our great Club, and there’s only one way to do that in elite football.
Finally, I did think our midfield was crying out for some zip and energy long before any changes came last night, but it didn’t happen; so now we must lick our wounds and press on, nothing else for it – victory and defeat are impostors who need to be treated as such.
Up the optimistic Reds!
Moreno’s howler aside it seemed to me that we just ran out of legs, scuppered by a collective entropy typified by Sturridge’s late run through treacle for a through ball. Maybe the pressure of the occasion drained our energy,
Or perhaps we just fizzled out after a long season- the signs were there against Chelsea last week when we spent much of that game chasing shadows.
We have some good players and hopefully we will get some better ones in the Summer and a good pre-season
Would be happy if we play 40 games next season and win 30 of them.
Agreed Ron, we looked out on our legs early in second half last night, you could see the players minds were willing but the body wasn’t,
Passes either misplaced by fractions or a touch a little heavy, Emre just ran out of gas and I think it was him who coughed up possession for the killer 3rd goal but in fairness he was just trying to drive us on
His misplaced pass to Milner on the right wing late on summed it up,
A little heavy touch & he’s stretching on the pass and therefore it’s misplaced & overhit,
Tired bodies riddled with anxiety.
One point not raised yet is the poor performance of our fans. We had a 4 to 1number advantage in the ground but Seville seemed to make far more noise than we did.
It was great before the game but unfortunately too much booze put paid to many of our fans and a significant proportion just did not sing at all.
Kloppo will do the business for us on the pitch. We need to show we can help by doing the business off the pitch
Is right in every way, mate
Please stop this ‘Kloppo’ nonsense, worse than ‘Hendo’.
Seen some ridiculous knee jerk tweets about Klopp. Some need to remember Klopp has inherited someone else’s players. At least give him a full pre-season, some of his own players, then a full season minimum, before judging him.
I know, it’s ridiculous. I was really angry reading Ian Doyle’s piece today in the echo. It was snidey, having a pop at Klopp whilst trying to make out it wasn’t and also trying to criticise the fans for buying in to Klopp himself. It totally felt like someone had decided ‘right, it’s been a few months, it’s time to stick the knife in’. Ridiculous, although I, like everyone, feel awful, I still feel 100% better than this time last year. Yes, again we lost our final game, only this time it wasn’t 6-1 away at Stoke, it was a European Final! All the best.
Saw that piece too and I was surprised/angry too. Maybe he was trying to be the first guy in Echo (or pretty much in the country) to blame Klopp?
Barney Ronay piece in The Guardian is much better.
The ‘inherited someone else’s players’ mantra is not on. Klopp said more than once from the time he arrived “I came for THESE players.” And only a few days ago he said again “I’m very different from PL managers because they believe in making transfers to fix problems while I believe in coaching.” If we want to understand Jürgen Klopp we need to start really listening to what he is actually saying and doing, instead of thinking we know better and constantly looking to blame everything and everyone. He will supplement the squad to fill some obvious gaps and replace some players whose time is rightly up after several years of loyal service, but expecting an immediate clear out will only result in frustration and disillusionment.
Pretty much spot on.
The media and fan narrative that there will be some kind of monster clear-out runs totally contrary to what Klopp has said. For example:
‘One of the main reasons I came here was because I thought, what a nice squad!’
‘I would like to work with these players if that’s ok with you?’
He will look to refine, tweak and develop as opposed to carrying out a purge.
Spot on both Ellie and Dan. Klopp never once blame the squad. Klopp is the type who focuses on “circle of influence” not on “circle f concern”
The more I think about last night the more I think Sevilla toyed with us during the first half, using it to expose our weaknesses. Then they came out immediately in the 2nd half and exploited what they had learned. The look on their faces after their 17-second goal said it all to me. They saw the lack of experience that was so obvious and they took advantage of it, then killed it off. It was in the way they looked at each other; it said “That’s enough fooling around; we’re having these guys.”
With regard to subbing off Firmino, I always feel he fades under pressure (his confidence) and that’s what happened again last night. Jürgen often has said he works with what he has. He knows things about his players’ individual mentality that the fans can probably never know. If he takes a player off there is likely a good reason for it, and sometimes the reason may not be about the actual football and therefore not obvious to us.
Apparently their lad Coke said despite being heavily outnumbered that each of their supporters was worth four of ours. Sounds like the usual type of sycophantic stuff you expect from a player about his support in such euphoric circumstances. We’ve heard our own fair share of it down the years – sometimes more accurate than others. But the thing about Coke’s comments yesterday is that he’s fucking right. And that pissed me off almost as much as the meek performance and crap result. It was like a home game in terms of the ratio and yet we were comprehensively out-sung for the vast majority of the match… What the fuck? It wasn’t for the want of trying for plenty of us but it seems like the miserable fuckers that inhabit Anfield throughout the season decided to make the trip this time. Shame. Kloppo has tried, in both direct and subtle ways, to put the point across that it’s about fucking time we started getting behind our side regardless. We’re dire in all but very, very few games these days. Even then it’s generally dictated by the score. I’m not talking pre-game. That’s fucking class. We do that better than just about anyone. But for the 90ish minutes of football we are so bad it’s almost parody, given the mythic clichés that the media pour out onto us.
no matter how bad we were in the second half (and we were absolutely shocking!), if the match officials had done their job, Liverpool would have been out of sight at half time! on another day we would have had probably 2 first half penalties. the Lovren header would have stood (how could Sturridge possibly have been deemed to be interfering with play??!!). and some of the umpteen chances we created in that first half would have found the net! it was most definitely a game of two halves!
I just thought of something that made me feel better – this time last year and our final game, SIX ONE away at bloody STOKE!! Our last game this year was also a loss and that’s always disheartening, But, at least it was a European final. Not much help maybe, made me feel less down though, remembering the awful Brendan demise, that just dragged on and on and had us all tearing strips out of each other.
i don’t think i have ever felt so bad! except for maybe Athens 2007 and Wembley 2012. two big finals that were there for the taking if only we had picked the right teams on them occasions! also Andy Carroll’s headed equaliser would have stood in the 2012 Chelsea final if goal line technology was around then! and that just rubs salt into the wound! arghhhhhhhhhhhh!
Tough loss. Cup runs are great when the league isn’t going so well, but if you don’t go all the way and lift the pot you have to wake up and smell the coffee eventually. No trophy and 8th place means we haven’t had a worse season than this one for about 50 years. Take away the outlier of 13/14 and it’s 6 seasons in 6th to 8th, we really have to avoid falling down a further tier in the pecking order.
Definitely expected more from Klopp, we were I think in 10th when he took over so a very marginal improvement, and Rodgers himself oversaw a much bigger improvement in the second half of last year. But, of course, not his team so largely reserving judgement until next season. But a significant improvement should be expected, and even demanded..
Though the list of recent UEFA/Europa winners in past years is largely impressive I don’t think we can read too much into reaching the final by looking at many of the runner ups- ‘Boro, Fulham, Dnipro, Braga, Espanypol, Rangers…
brilliant writing Neil, you really are something else with these match reviews.
Very impressive and not just because the mainstream stuff is just so yawn inducingly boring.
Have you considered writing for a footy fansite? ;-)
I wonder if he’ll go for an established DM, if he realises that both Moreno and Lovren aren’t really good enough for a decent back line, wonders why Firmino and Sturridge don’t really link up that well, why Firmino has such off / quiet games, how is he going to get Coutinho performing reliably and consistently.
But at the end of the day we have to accept that he does see things and will act on them. For example he mentioned our lack of shape and composure at the Chelsea game and then mentioned it again at this presser in the context of our performance, and that we hadn’t had time to put it right for this season.
That’s good, that’s what we want to hear. He’s seen the problem – it was there against Chelsea too – he will do something about it.
So the other thing that bothers me is why we aren’t clinical.
Even Sturridge, whiffs the chances that are setup for him. Scoring the blinders is kind of not the point if you’re going to whiff the stuff you’re supposed to score. Clyne’s crosses, he just doesn’t connect with them. Villareal, he whiffed the 1st and 3rd goals too.
we’ve scored a ton of goals this half of the season but we’re still not ruthless, we don’t put games to bed. Soton we scored 2, should have got 4, Everton got 4 should have had 7, and this final, should have had 2 or 3, we got 1 and that let Emery get back into the game (because we’re so easy to run through).
So we have to also believe that he will fix that.
In his first couple of months I thought BR couldn’t be a good manager if he didn’t give us a resilient midfield and while that was correct he made so many more mistakes. Now he’s told us he has seen our issues against Chelsea and again against Seville.
We have to believe he will now fix it. That will be long overdue, we haven’t had a resilient midfield since Rafa.
‘We have to believe he will now fix it. That will be long overdue, we haven’t had a resilient midfield since Rafa.’
Agreed.
We are terrifyingly easy to turn around in midfield.
This for sure. I think that’s the core of my frustration with the recruitment during the Rogers era…too many little skillful guys with no physicality. And all too nice as well – though Can seems to have a bit of needle about him.
We got bullied from the start by a Spanish team, contrary to the stereotypes. Both physically and mentally. Lessons learned, let’s hope and trust.
Fantastic piece Neil, I feel much better now if out the game in context, one game doesn’t change the feeling of optimism we had on the run to Basel and having a week to work with the players, his players excites me at the thought, don’t get the doom n gloom about the squad, it’s lacking some quality and experience but that will come.
Up the Reds….