I DON’T want to be that fella, you know.
I don’t want to be the miserable old sod sat in the Kemlyn (old habits die hard) howling about Dejan Lovren’s defensive shortcomings, Divock Origi’s bluntness, Adam Lallana’s sixth-form common room bumfluff, or Joe Allen’s doomed attempt to reinvent himself as the least intimidating member of the Three Musketeers.
I don’t want to moan, endlessly, unremittingly, pointlessly. There’s already way too much of that going on and I think most of us have had enough of it.
I don’t want to. But I’m here to talk about Simon Mignolet again, so all bets are off. So instead, it might be best if you go for a walk or listen to a Spandau Ballet LP or whatever it is you young people get up to these days. I won’t be offended.
Still here? On your head be it, then. You’ve been warned.
I expressed my reservations about Mignolet at the start of the season. About his inability to make decisions. About his lack of assertiveness. About how, in 2014-15, he deftly negotiated a journey from the ridiculous to the sublime but, like an inquisitive pooch returning to its own steaming mess, ultimately found himself right back where he had started.
I don’t think I was alone in declaring this season to be make or break for the amiable Belgian. There was a massive onus on him to impress, to demonstrate, week after week, that he was the goalkeeper Liverpool needed, rather than the one it deserved. To labour the point unnecessarily, he had to be Batman when too often in the past he had been the motionless by-stander waiting for Batman to show up and save the day. If the cape fits….
So. We’re three months into the campaign now. How’s he getting on?
Someone wise and French, possibly Jean-Michel Ferri but it’s hard to be certain, once noted, “the more things change, the more they stay the same.” In French, obviously. For Liverpool, for Mignolet, it seems an apt summation. Brendan Rodgers has left the building; Jurgen Klopp has become the latest heir to Shankly’s weighty legacy. A phalanx of new attackers has swept away the previous incumbents, such as they were, yet a shortage of goals remains a major concern. And the defeat to Crystal Palace confirmed that, despite initial promise, unfathomable defensive errors have yet to be fully eradicated from the team’s itinerary.
For his part, Mignolet started the season with three successive clean sheets, looking reasonably secure in the process. Maybe this time the penny had dropped. Er, nope. West Ham stuck three past him, as Liverpool’s entire backline displayed all the assuredness and dexterity of Olly Murs presenting Question Time. The same problems surfaced at Old Trafford, with another three goals cheaply conceded. The familiar uninspiring, uncertain Mignolet was back. I’m not sure he’d ever really gone away.
And this, for me, is at the heart of it. Strip away the vagaries of form and fortune, good or bad. Essentially, what we all want is for Simon Mignolet to be a different type of goalkeeper. One who dominates his area, anticipates potential threats before they develop, directs, cajoles and, when needed, roundly bollocks his defenders, and has the calmness to accept possession and distribute the ball like a latter-day Alan Hansen. What we have isn’t far from the precise opposite of that.
Stunning save from Simon Mignolet for Belgium tonight.pic.twitter.com/pYjnjqQPiU
— The Anfield Chat (@TheAnfieldChat) November 13, 2015
We’re talking about Mignolet’s fundamental style here. His approach to the game, his idea of what a keeper should be. This is the way he’s always played. It’s not something that can be casually tinkered with, or fixed. Some might say there’s nothing to fix. It all depends on what you want your goalkeeper to give you, what your expectations are. And what fits best with the kind of team Liverpool aim to be. But one thing’s for sure; it’s all but impossible for a keeper to change his entire playing style, particularly at Mignolet’s stage of development. This is what you get.
It’s not even as if he’s been spectacularly awful so far this season, though at times against Palace he straddled the divide between “competent” and “Tim Howard” like a pissed-up Mr Blobby walking a tightrope in a wind tunnel. There have been few outright clangers, certainly not of the magnitude of Joe Hart’s recent horror against Norwich. And it’s only fair to note that his performances in the Everton and Tottenham games earned his team a point they may not otherwise have come away with. It seems somehow typical of Mignolet’s luck that in each case the spotlight was focused squarely on the occupant of the manager’s chair, and his own contribution largely went unheralded.
However, it’s hard to escape the murmurs of unease that swirl round Anfield when he is called to action. For every cross he refuses to come and collect, every through ball he delays advancing towards, every clearance he skews or backpass he mis-controls, the discontent grows. The groans build, the abuse cascades down from the stands. It’s not an atmosphere conducive to enhancing the confidence of someone already prone to over-analysis and self-doubt.
There seems to be an unmistakeable groundswell of opinion in favour of replacing Mignolet as Liverpool’s Number 1. Unless Klopp sees something that few others do, his position will come under serious threat in the months to come. More than two years after his arrival the same old flaws persist, flaws that should not be visible in a genuinely top-class goalkeeper. Flaws that are so ingrained in his approach to the role that they aren’t going away any time soon.
In a sense, he has become a microcosm of this Liverpool team. Too polite, too passive, too accepting of defeats or setbacks. Lacking presence or genuine leadership. The impact that a Neuer, a De Gea, a Cech, a Courtois, could have in providing a solid, reliable base, one which exudes confidence and assurance, is immeasurable.
That’s what we need to aim for. If nothing else, it might keep the Kemlyn happy. For a couple of minutes, at least.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
‘like an inquisitive pooch returning to its own steaming mess’
this is absolutely top drawer
Mignolet will never be a top goalkeeper and that’s a fact,but he isn’t the only muppet that needs culling.Allen,Lovren,Lallana,Origi,Milner,Sturridge ( YES Sturridge,because he can’t be trusted to play 15 league games a season ) What exactly do any of these bring too the table ( NOTHING AT ALL ) We need steel,creativity,bottle,goal scorers,and a bloody defence other teams fear on set pieces and corners…
Only season in recent years when Sturridge hasn’t played 15 games in a season was last season.
Sturridge injured himself, during training, by banging his knee against Jordan Ibe. That’s probably a more violent clash than our goalkeeper has ever had with an opposition player in a competitive match for us. I can’t remember him hurting an opposing player, ever.
On the rare occasions that he somehow finds the ball in his arms, after a corner, he approaches the edge of his box like a picked-on kid who has finally found the courage to square-up to the school bully – only to change his mind at the last minute and hope that nobody noticed what he almost did.
Even at his very worst, David James was much better. It’s ridiculous how long managers hesitate for, before dropping a keeper. It’s as if it is too much of a humiliation for the goalie to ever get over.
Bogdan must be feeling so demotivated, right now. Occasionally, Mignolet still gets praised for athletically tipping a long-range shot around the post when a corner is exactly what the opposition team wants.
Well said. and we missed out on Begovic too.
Whenever we spend a vast sum of money on yet another player that I’ve never heard of, I tend to look for a YouTube video featuring their ‘best bits’ over the last couple of seasons.
Being an utter mug, I often find these leave me feeling somewhat hopeful. Even Mignolet has one, proving that you can tie a pink ribbon around any coal-shed and make it look pretty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZ5AfzvDtg
Yes, you can tie a ribbon, but you cant polish a turd. Under BR (as with many turd players he bought) he sprinkled a little glitter on them and hoped we wouldn’t notice. BR=The Emperor’s New Clothes
The door and a P45. The roll out to the injured Sakho was the final straw.
As someone who had the odd chat with the Flying Pig when standing behind the Anfield Rd goal, marveled at the truly magnificent Clem through to Pepe at his peak, to watch Mingolet is painful. He just doesn’t command his penalty area or the defence. He is an accident waiting to happen and needs replacing as soon as possible. He seems a nice bloke but that’s about it.
Mignolet is good, but not great. So yes, Liverpool need to be in the market for an upgrade. But that will be a significant transfer fee and that’s a fairly short list of options.
nice hair gel…and nothing else…
He did saved a few points…so did our reserve keeper when given chance…
Liverpool need a top class keeper. Period. And our defensive record could easily improve by 10%~20% (just based on.leadership, commanding presence in the area, proper communication, and a common sense)
enough chances given to him…
having said that, I.will still be cheering him on till Jan window.
Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose ~ the more things change, the more they stay the same. Simon Mignolet ~ merde. Great shot stopper, but that’s his job and no longer the most important one for a 21st century goalie.
It’s now about distribution, comfort on the ball, communication and decisions. Unfortunately he fails on all of these, so we are left with him being just a great shot stopper. Not unlike plenty of other keepers.
His roll out to Sakho vs Palace was my straw that broke the camel’s back.
He creates panic when he should instil calm, and our dodgy defence doesn’t need that….
Saving shots is no longer the most important thing for a GK? If its about distribution and comfort on the ball, decision making etc – would you trust Xabi Alonso in between the sticks?
Yes, before Mignolet – every time.
On keepers generally: “With the ball you have to know the movement patterns, the rotation, the fluidity and positioning of the team. Then there’s our defensive organisation…so if it is not going well we have a default mechanism which makes us hard to beat and we can pass our way into the game again. Rest with the ball. Then we’ll build again. When we have the football everybody’s a player. The difference with us is that when we have the ball we play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 and a goalkeeper.”
On Vorm: “British people had said to me he was too small, which was good for me because it probably meant he was good with his feet. When we got the chance to see him I realised he was perfect. He was 27, humble, and makes saves that a 6ft 5in keeper won’t make because he’s so fast. But, importantly, he can build a game from behind. He understands the lines of pass.”
On Mignolet: “I said to Simon it was for an indefinite period.”
What does a LFC goalie look like? To me they look like this Clemence, Brucie and Pepe and what qualities do they all have in common, they can all command the area, come for crosses and play it out from the back. David James, Westerveld and Migolet were sold to the fans as being good shot stoppers, (a pre-requisit for being a goalie n’est pas!) When we won things in the 70s 80s and were boss under Rafa our goalies were ….. and when we have been a bit crap and disjointed our goalies were…. and for those that say ‘but we nearly won the league with Simon in goal’ I would suggest that had more to do with the 101 goals we scored and with a different goalie we may have let in less. Sunderland only let him go because they thought they had a young keeper that was better, that should have set off alarm bells, but there seemed to be such a clammer to get rid of Pepe and the myth perpetuated (spinning bullshit) that a young keeper could be moulded into something he clearly never has been that we ended up with Migolet and over the passed two seasons has he improved? Has our defense improved no matter what players play in what combination? Do we always look like we are going to concede from a corner or free kick into the box? Does Simon rise like a salmon and catch the ball cleanly or punch it towards the half way line? Does he start counter attacks quickly? Is he comfortable on the ball? Did he do any of these things when he played for Sunderland? Why then did Liverpool expect him to do these things when they signed him? A butcher and a surgeon are both expert with a knife and have a good knowledge of Anatomy but one has a bit more finesse than the other and a Liverpool goalie needs to have a better all around game than being a shot stopper in the same way a CB has to have more for Liverpool than being a good defender
Spot on. Clem, Brucie and Pepe. Every other keeper we’ve had since Clem has been shite (apart from Jerzy in that one match, like).
We have a handful of players who have the rest of this season to save their Liverpool career, Mignolet, Lovren and fortunately Sturridge included.
*unfortunately
As it’s not possible to comment underneath podcasts I’m posting here having just listened to Monday’s TAW. I’m usually in complete agreement with you all on 99% of topics, but everyone’s comments about the game at Wembley on Tuesday seemed so far out of sync with almost everyone else that I feel the need to post on here (for the first time!).
I was there on Tuesday in Wembley and there was nothing ‘forced’ about it at all. I spoke to many French fans who were crying with relief/emotion due to the feeling of unity and solidarity in the stadium. 70,000 people singing any national anthem together is hugely powerful and left a lasting impression on everyone there. How can you say it was forced? Especially having not even seen the game?
Your worries about the French players not being focused are redundant as well – firstly, they were all clapping the crowd throughout the whole game and were visibly moved by the audience’s affection and the sense of . Secondly, if some weren’t focused – does it really matter? It was only a friendly AND it clearly had a powerful/positive effect on the thousands of people in the stadium and millions around the world.
Was a bit worried about how out of touch the panel seemed on Monday’s show. I’m a loyal listener and spend a solid 5-6 hours of my week listening to the shows, but a bit more tact on this issue would have been appreciated.
Few things, we recorded the show before the game had taken place. You can comment on podcasts. And your comments come with hindsight. Still think there’s a valid point to be made that football doesn’t solve things, nor should people expect it to. That was the over-riding message of what was discussed and we were not alone in expressing it. Thanks. Robbo.
Football never solved anything. Neither did dragging a piano for miles to play Imagine, or any of the empty gestures we have seen this week.
Terrorists are already plotting the next outrage. It will more than likely take place in the Middle-East and don’t expect to see the unfortunate country’s flag beamed onto the Sydney Opera House after it happens, even if the death-toll massively exceeds that of Paris.
However, I see no harm in issuing Alfred with some kind of medal. Let’s honour those hours of selfless listening.
Its an interesting subject is Simon Mignolet.
His general distribution success rate is better than De Gea, Cech or Joe Hart.
On crosses claimed he has 8 this season with 2 being missed. David De Gea has claimed how many? 20? 15? nope…1. Just 1 cross claimed all season. Cech has claimed 11, Lloris 10 apparently.
Mignolet has made 26 saves this season – slap bang in the middle of the top goalkeepers so far this season.
So, whats the issue here? Something is not right here, It cant be..
My thought on this is Mignolet is actually ok in terms of stuff that can be coached – catching and the like.
Its the stuff that’s in his DNA that’s the issue….communication – you simply cannot teach this to a 27 year old to change his manner. Speed of thought – again, its in his head. the dodgy roll outs, the slowness of distribution (my main issue with him), I also think a GK is naturally the focus of blame when we concede – even if as much of the cause is those in front of him. Does Skrtel drop deep because he doesn’t trust Mignolet? Or does Mignolet stay on his line because Skrtel keeps dropping too deep?
Trying to be fair to the lad – I don’t think he is as bad as our opinions lead us to believe. That said, it is one position that if a real upgrade is available then we do it.
Statistics are the problem here, if you have a dodgy keeper on crosses then the opposition cross more and some of these crosses could be soft and easy to catch. How many goals have Liverpool conceded from crosses where Mignolet has stayed stuck on his line? He did not miss the cross because he did not go for it, but he also never stopped the ball from going in, statistically it is never his fault, but when you watch each goal the question is could or should Migolet come for the cross? could he have done more? I would prefer him to come for everything and get 70% instead of waiting on the line and then not stopping it.
This is the thing – its easy to look at each goal conceded and say he should’ve come for it or he should have stayed put – I just think there is more to it than that. Its this thing with Mignolet – is he a dodgy keeper or has he just created a perception of being one and will never shake that off?
The roll out to Sakho is a case in point. Mignolet got slaughtered for that, but if a GK sees a player return to the pitch why shouldn’t he think the player is ok to receive the ball? If Sakho was in no state to take the pass, then should he have stayed put off the pitch?
He wouldn’t make a side challenging for honours, he wouldn’t get into a top CL side other than back-up. Just about every player is replaceable. He’s a bloody good shot stopper, coming in after Reina utterly forgot how to do it. But even a lardy wobble bottom Reina would have been more suited to how we play and managing those in front of him. Mig’s time is ticking. I doubt Klopp will replace him immediately, as there are bigger issues elsewhere. But I doubt he’ll be #1 come the 16/17 season.
Pepe’s form dipped by his own high standards, all players have dips in form. He was regaining his form but Rodgers wanted him out. Your comments about Pepe are untrue and disrespectful to a player who loves our club and was one of the very few players who spoke out under Hicks and Gillett.
Jack Butland
If Simon Mignolet lost both his legs and had them replaced with pogo sticks, he would be only a little bit worse than what he is today. His lack of ability with the ball at his feet makes me question all manner of logical thinking and common sense.