WITH his 50th appearance for Liverpool likely to come at Goodison Park this weekend, Alberto Moreno has been talking to Premier League Productions about seizing his chance in the first team and getting a run of starts that looked extremely unlikely a month ago.
In his quotes, circulated by the official Liverpool FC site, Moreno — a £12m signing from Sevilla in August 2014 — said: “What you’ve got to do is keep working, get your head down in training and work really hard so you’re ready when you get the chance.”
An admirable stance, and one that will endear him to fans as much as his surging runs down the left-hand side. But he could have also added “and it helps if you get to hang around long enough to prove why Liverpool paid so much for you in the first place”.
Liverpool brought in 24 first-team players during Brendan Rodgers’ first three seasons at the club. Less than half are now in the squad. Four have been sold, five are on loan, mostly with very little chance of returning, and four more were brought in on temporary deals but not deemed good enough to earn a permanent contract. In fact, two of the loan deals were terminated early.
Everyone will have their own theories on what those numbers tell you. It certainly isn’t a ringing endorsement of the players brought in under Rodgers. Or is it a failure of transfer policy rather than those specifically brought in? Does it expose problems with the manager not having more control over who he buys? Or does it suggest politics are at play with the freezing out of those he hasn’t picked himself?
All the above are probably valid to a certain degree. But the case of Moreno is an interesting one. It’s too early to suggest a recent run of good form means he will ultimately go down as a good signing. But he certainly looks much better in his second season at Liverpool than he did in his first. Which isn’t that unbelievable, or unlikely, the more you think about it.
The idea that a young player needs to hit the ground running at a football club or he’s out is a new one — certainly at our club. In the past youngsters were signed based on their skills, and learned how to become Liverpool players over time. Steve Nicol was signed as a young defender after playing 70 times for Ayr United, but had to wait a year for his first-team debut for the Reds, and even longer than that to become a regular. Nowadays, he could well be back on loan at Scotland after six months and written off as a dud.
Liverpool shelled out a record fee for a teenager when Bob Paisley bought Ian Rush for £300,000 from Chester, but no-one at Anfield particularly panicked when it took him over a year to score his first goal for the club. Terry McDermott was 22 and had experience of top-flight football with Newcastle United, but it still took him two years at Liverpool to become a fixture in the team. It helped that Liverpool were succesful at this time, of course, but generally it seems younger players were afforded much more time to break through than they are now.
There are stories that Moreno was offered to Spanish clubs in the summer after just 12 months at Anfield, which doesn’t seem unlikely when you consider Joe Maguire, now on loan at Leyton Orient, was playing ahead of him in pre-season. Fans, too, had written him off. I can’t talk, I sold him in the Transfer Committee game we play in the summer.
Patience is at short supply, both with fans and with managers. It is tough for a manager now, I accept. You’re never more than three games away from a ‘crisis’. Results are king, and if someone isn’t doing the business for you then you replace them with someone who is. Someone you can trust to produce. What is the point of developing a young player only to lose your job and the next manager get all the benefit?
The growing numbers of ins and outs each summer across the league shows the majority of managers now trying to solve their problems through transfers, rather than coaching or development. Liverpool have elected to join them. What was seen at the time as a ‘unique’ summer transfer window in 2014, when players were needed to bulk up a squad for Europe, now looks likely to become the norm. Football fans demand it. Managers are happy to hang their hat on it. Easier to point at the deficiencies in a squad rather than accept you could be getting more out of them.
I’m not saying all players need time. Sometimes it is obvious you have to cut your losses. Iago Aspas was too weak, Mario Balotelli too mad, Rickie Lambert too Lambert. But other times it feels we chase the new, rather than giving time to what we have. If we have a policy for buying ‘promise’ then surely you need to give time for that promise to develop? Especially if they are coming from another country to play a different style of football.
I hope Moreno’s resurgence continues and he has a great season at Liverpool. He might not just be playing for his own future, but for a fair chance for the next big money youngster who we all write off too early.
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Pic: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda Photo
Unfortunately in recent years at Liverpool if you are a young player and don’t hit the ground running in your first season you are binned off. Some may not even be given a chance (Ilori), some may be constantly played out of position (Sahin, Markovic) but this myth that we will coach and develop young players at this club now does not hold water. We ship them out to somewhere on loan and THAT club, coaches and develops them.
Unfortunately, in recent years at Liverpool, if you are a young player and hit the ground running in your first season you are likely to be sold for a profit. Most were given a second season or third season… I digress.
Ilori, Sahin and Markovic were given a 2nd season AT Liverpool????
Must have completely missed that.
Sahin was a non issue – he was 23 (I think) and was a loan player. But I find the fact we gave Aston Villa a buy option on Ilori after not even seeing him play for us or integrate him in training astonishing.
I’m not sure the fact he was a loan player is a non issue. Real clearly wanted rid and we had stole a march on other clubs to get him in but then proceeded to play him out of position which didn’t suit him. We then cut his loan short after playing him out of position for several months where amazingly enough he didn’t thrive. This isn’t the last time we did something similar with a player.
The signing of Sahin is a none issue for me. We sign him in Rodgers first summer to bolster the squad. Rodgers remit was to reduce the wage bill meaning the likes of Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi, Aquillani etc was sold/let go. Sahin came in around that time.
You’re right, he was played slightly out of position. He wanted Gerrards position. He wasn’t getting it, so cried to the media.
We cut our losses, which wasn’t much. Sent him back to Madrid. They didn’t want him so he was sent to Dortmund on loan.
Playing in various positions is part of football. All managers do it and a lot of players get on with it. It’s football.
When a young player comes in from a different country and a different league it’s probably advisable to help them settle in as best as possible. Rarely playing him in his best/favoured position is probably not the best way to go about this. Sahin had won player of the yr I believe in Germany before moving to Real, playing in the deep lying playmaker position. Similarly Markovic came from a different country and league and again was rarely played in his best/favoured position. Again, amazingly he hasn’t seemed to settle despite glimpses of what he can do.
Going back to my original point, if a young player doesn’t hit the ground running for us in his first season we tend to bin them off. So much for the coaching and development.
SG73 is correct abt Sahin.
who would we choose? Stevie G or Sahin for the same position. and Sahin was naturally played out of position. When he started to moan, we sent him back. Simple. no one’s fault. Just a cold hard reality.
Compared that to Hendo. A young player. Played out of position. Pushed him to Fulham. He decided to stay on.and fight.
Michael, they weren’t, but you can see that my comment is effectively the opposite of yours. It was – what I thought – was a thinly veiled shot at our ownership for selling our best players over the last few seasons.
I am sick of Anfield being the proving ground for the “big clubs.”
I am also sick of the drama around Rodgers. Don’t get me wrong, I think he will be an excellent manager, I am just not sure anymore that it is here, with these players. The way I see it there are two options, we cut chaff an run early so this season doesn’t become 14-15 all over again, or JWH comes out and says Brendan is here for the next five years full stop. Fans need to know what we are in for, but we can’t keep being strung along game-by-game and season-by-season.
Oh, and Mike, to be clear I want Markovic, Can, et al. to succeed. I want to have Liverpool to have the problem of burgeoning talent on the boil in the reserves or fringes of the first team. However, I also want established players with experience, grit, knowledge and dedication to do what it takes week in and week out in this league, and in Europe.
have been saying the same thing past few weeks that ~
1. FSG needs to publicly back BR. instead of speculation to drag on.and.on. They may have internal communication and understanding between them, but itis not enough.
OR
2. if FSG is planning to replace BR, they should do sooner rather than later
Lucas and Henderson are the stand out players for this but Moreno is going some way to proving that so many of our fans are far too quick to judge. Some have already written off Firmino. A lad who doesn’t yet speak the language, has played in what is seen as an inferior league for the last few years and is still relatively young. A lot of our fans are not willing to give players time because they are naive in thinking that everyone should hit the ground running like Suarez (even Luis needed time to grow into the player that left us) . Each player needs to time to settle. Some never do but we, as fans, should at least understand that. The wait of expectation crushes some players. They simply do not have the personality to succeed at a big club. Look at Downing, Adam, Lovren, just to name a few. All came from smaller clubs and could not handle the scrutiny that their performances were placed under. BUT finally getting back to the original point, players should be afforded time. Without doubt
Patience is a virtue. Christiano Ronaldo managed 9 goals in first 100 or so games for United. Look what happened to him. Gerard Pique managed just 9 games in 4 seasons before United got rid aged 21. Look what happened to him. Spurs tried to sell a 20yo left back called Gareth Bale. Look what happened to him.
To a lesser level, the lad Coquelin at Arsenal was out on loan until he was 24 and only called back due to injuries to other players. He seems to be going ok. And Lamela at Spurs looks like he finally gets the Premier League after 2 seasons.
Very few players are like an Owen, a Neymar – players who are almost at the top of their game before they are 21.
I really hope we have patience with the likes of Moreno, Can, Markovic and let them develop and see what they are like when they reach 24-25. Only then can we really judge whether they were money well spent.
to add to this, the lack of decent reserve team football is a problem in England. Loans are not ideal, but players need competitive games to put the coaching into practise.
I think Turkey will be a good league for Markovic to strengthen his game and hopefully he comes back with a decent season of football under his belt and a stronger player for it.
It’s been said over numerous shows that in order to compete at the top end we as a club has to be different, smarter, more innovative than others. And like you’ve pointed out here we show signs of the contrary. We’re following the same route as everybody else.
We can’t attract top talent so we must trust our own way of work to produce those top top quality players.
The stand out example here is of course Lazar Markovich. A top talent who’s rated and tracked by most of the top clubs across europe chooses Liverpool. A £20 million prospect who we “gave up on” after one season and sends him on loan to a Turkish club, I can’t see how this is beneficial for Liverpool football club. To say he wouldn’t get games with us is absolute bullshit, if you buy a top talent for that kind of money you’ll find him games. Can we afford to waste, yes waste 20million in this way? What if £30million Firminho struggles this season, is he another waste of precious transfer funds that we will send out on loan? Long term, looking ahead, trust your way of work. No,nnot so much I’m afraid.
I also want to point the a thing I think is really important when we do expect new Sig ings to hit the ground running. What are the circumstances? How easy is it for a player like Moreno or Lazar to hit the ground running when the while team is on a down rather than a up? Those two were not in any way shape or form worse performers than mist if our players last season. Moreno defensively yes, but for fuck sake. A young lad coming in to a defence the screams panic and lack confidence, is it even fair to expect him to hit the ground running?
Not only do I dislike this in a footballing sense but I also think that this kind of treatment will have a huge effect on the human beings behind what we just see as footballers. It’s not worthy and something we as a club shouldn’t be doing. Even if you don’t hit the ground running you shouldn’t just be disposed as toxic waste.
If Liverpool FC is giving a young lad like Moreno or Markovich a 4 year contract they should be obligated to give him the time he needs to settle, find his feet, find his confidence, work with the squad and coaching staff, get to know the city and it’s people. If we expect this to come together in one year weren’t giving these kids a chance really.
I think Moreno’s return to form has more to do with us finally deciding to let the shackles go and play some attacking football. He was great against Spurs at WHL last season doing it
If you ask him to be organized and solid and go less forward more then he is half the player. He will fuck up in defense so why not just tell him to go nuts and do what he’s good at
Because we need our defenders to be able to defend. It’s kind of a major problem for some time now.
The problem is Moreno could not defend properly to save his life last season and he continues to be ‘lost in space’ defensively this season. He completely loses focus, lets the player he’s “marking” make easy passes, has no ‘strategic’ sense at all.
Qua full-back, he’s orders of magnitude worse than Jose Enrique and Enrique is not that good.
Moreno is a converted winger. It shows. He’s a serviceable wingback. Defensively, he’s about as bad as Dossena was for us.
Add to the list Pogba from Man U to Juventus. However back to the Reds and I can sort of understand but don’t agree with loaning out Markovich coz he was low on confidence, but I was and still am speechless with the loaning out of Llori when we are searching for a solution to our CB problems. When BR gives Gomez who is total novice his opportunity which clearly he has take really well although at 18 he clearly can not physically play too many top flight games. Yet Llori who is now in his early 20s and a proven International U21 star is deemed unworthy of an opportunity. What’s going on please…. Anyone answers on a post card. Mind boggling??
Illori has done well for international U21 level , and his ball playing style somewhat resembles Aggar, in my opinion.
the only potential down side i can think of is that he maybe too ‘lightweight’ for the premier league big, agressive, long ball strikers? (would he be able to handle Villa striker in last saturday’s game? would he be able to stand up against bulley like Costa stamps and elbows? we will find that out via his performance in Villa.shirt, unfortunately)
Well done to Moreno.
i would add that we should not blame anyone in particular for the policy of buying young talented potentials. And naturally some of them wont make it with us. it is not the fault of FSG nor BR, in my opinion.
We cant buy ready made Messi, Ronaldo, and so one, therefore to still stay competitive, the club has to come.up with Moneyball (or no balls:) policy.
There maybe more than average “wasted” talents due to this policy. It is part of the natural “operating cost” of trying to make Liverpool competitive.
It may not be perfect, but it got us Sturridge, Courtino, Moreno, Gomez, Ings, Hendo and Lucas.
This comes down to one fundamental flaw. Reserve /under 21 football and the lack of competitive and regular football.
RUSH NICOL mcdermott could force their way into a team from reserve football by their performance now no-one can prove themselves except in training.
Next U21 18 Oct pathetic this needs addressing
It has been addressed. The majority of the U21s side is made up with U18’s. U18’s with U16’s etc.
A lot of the players that would have played for the U21’s are all out on loan. This is the strategy that Inglethorpe has created. Rodgers and Inglethorpe will no doubt discuss who stays and who goes. Any unsuccessful loan spell will have them returned to Liverpool with a view of sending them out again.
Obviously some loans are to get players of the books. But a lot are educational loans.
Danny Ward – Aberdeen
Lloyd Jones – Blackpool
Jordan Williams – Swindon
Kevin Stewart – Swindon
Andrew Wisdom – Norwich
Sheyi Ojo – Wolves
Tyan McLaughlin – Aberdeen
Samed Yesil – Luzern
Tiago Ilori – Villa
Ryan Kent – Coventry
Allan – SJK
Sergi Canos – Brentford
Harry Wilson – Crewe
Taiao Awoniyi – Frankfurt
Lawrence £50 Vigouroux – Swindon
As with all transfers, only time will tell if it works out. Spurs got a few first team players from this tactic.
But i do get your point. The bigger picture of reserve team football needs addressing.
If we send all our 19 to 22 year olds out on loan. We automatically reduce the competitiveness of the U21 league!
If we send all our 18-22yr olds out on loan then it’s other clubs that are coaching and developing them. They’re not learning to settle in with their new club, league, team mates or city.
We seem all to willing to send these kids out around the country and beyond yet bill ourselves as this club that gives youth a chance and develops talent.
Out of this list of players, if 2 or 3 make it to the first team in newr future, it would be considered success to the Moneyball policy.
If 4 or 5 make it through, the Committee members deserve a yearend bonus for sure.
Good read, that, Gibo.
I think Rodgers ability or talent as a manager of young players is overplayed. He’s been very quick to discard young players or send them out on loan, never to be seen again.
And if you’re MO as a big club is to scour the transfer market for younger players as opposed to someone at their peak, then you’re bound to have some success. Also, spending £20m on Markovic and £10m on Origi is not in the same ballpark as paying €4.5 million for a 22 year old Lewandowski.
Both the club and fans should be more patient with the younger players but having more quality players at their peak would probably help.
I think most have made valid points and whilst I like the prospect of raw talents materialising into genuine quality players, we need the infrastructure to ensure we have established quality alongside them into order to help the nurturing process but also so we don’t lose consistently along the way… I could see this team being a great competitor in the league and CL if we were to stick with the core and not overhaul every damn season. Buy quality and not quantity. I say with our squad we’d prob only need to refresh it with a top class player and a few up and coming teenagers every season. I forgot to mention a decent replacement for Migs – he always manages to scare me even if he pulls off one or two “wonder” saves, his all round game is appalling
yeah, seriously need a solid keeper the defenders can trust and play consistently. “a good shot stopped” alone is not enough to be the firsteamer here.
not sure how good the kid who jist came back fr loan due to ‘pennies-gate’. Has anyone seen him play?
if we are going.to stick.with 3-5-2 whole season, we would need cover for Clyne and Moreno at full back slots, because having Enrique and Ibe may not be enough to last the whole season.
Not knowing what formation you are going to play in and what type of Mare your goalie and CB will have cannot help the development of you players much.