I HAD promised myself the summer off.
No football, no Under 21s, no Women’s World Cup, no transfer rumours. Nothing. But then I read Paul Little’s piece about the reality of supporting Liverpool FC and I felt the need to reply.
Firstly, it’s a gutsy piece. It’s not easy writing anything down knowing that half your audience will be against it, vehemently so in some cases. It takes bottle and that needs to be said. Secondly, disagreeing with Paul doesn’t make him a bad lad. I know for a fact that he’s a big Ray Kennedy fan so we’re always going to get on. But I can’t accept his argument at all. Not for a second. Jesus, no.
Paul’s contention is that he no longer expects Liverpool to win the League — much as he’d obviously like to — and that he’s fine with it as it takes the pressure off the result and means he can sit back and enjoy the game. I’ll admit to similar views at the start of 2013-14 when, tired of the in-house fighting and brickbats, I decided to just enjoy watching the Reds without any external agenda. But giving up on the League? No chance. Never give up on the League.
This might sound overly romantic but I’m one of those stupid people who doesn’t always mind being two goals down at half time as the turnaround and inevitable win will make it all the sweeter. I’m all for unexpected unbeaten runs and unlikely heroes emerging from nowhere to drag us kicking and screaming into a title race. I’m all for the power of will against stupendous odds. That’s what I’m here for — the improbability.
Paul talks a lot about reality in his piece and states some irrefutable facts. The teams above us spend, and have the power to spend, much more than we can. Impossible to deny. They also have the allure of Champions League football, so we’re a little behind in that regard, but there’s knowing your place and there’s doing something about it — and it’s on this point that I have to take up cudgels.
Liverpool should never make do, accept when the chips are down or sulk. Liverpool should never be sidetracked by pyrrhic victories elsewhere. Liverpool should never be happy with their lot. Never.
There’s reality and there’s dealing with that reality.
What worries me more is acceptance. This is extended to the club as much as fans. Liverpool looking above them and shrugging their shoulders in a resigned ‘well, what do you expect’ manner will never do. Fourth to sixth is a starting point, not a destination. Sitting behind the leading pack and staying there just means you’re the best of those who aren’t good enough.
There are many reasons why the club didn’t kick on last season but for me it was largely due to a shifting of targets. Get top four by all means but don’t aim for it. Aim high, higher, highest. Top four isn’t a target. You can’t celebrate top four. You can’t sit on a beach in June and think lovingly back to being the fourth best team in the league. It has to go higher. It MUST go higher. Last season, Liverpool aimed low and went lower. Reality is no bloody good for you if you’re not prepared to overcome it. We shouldn’t be meeting expectations, we should be confounding them.
This isn’t some sentimental bollocks about expecting to win the League. It’s about a mindset held within the club and some of the fans. Thinking Chelsea or City will win the league is one thing but not before willing Liverpool to move heaven and earth to stop that happening. Putting your hands up in abject surrender is only going to end one way. I’m tired of that. I want more and I want better.
Paul talks of ‘unrealistic expectations’ but they’re the reason we’re here. Istanbul was unrealistic. The hat-trick of trophies in 2001 was unrealistic. Liverpool nearly winning the League in 2014 with 14 lads and a dream began with those unrealistic views. It’s the sheer bloody mindedness and improbable nature of those days that make us venerate them. If we can’t win the league because of spending power, what’s it going to feel like when we eventually do?
I’m angrier at the club than I am about Paul’s article. He has a right to feel this way as he’s sat through decades of dross too, but the owners, staff and players shouldn’t be here if they hold similar views. The hardest part of last season — Wembley, the 6-1 and so on — was the sight of Liverpool just giving up. They did. They simply gave up. Go a goal down at United, suffer an equaliser at Wembley, lose early goals to Stoke — give up, walk off the pitch, repeat whenever it gets hard again. It’s obvious what’s happening. It’s a mental weakness of not believing in yourself. We’re budgeting for points and if we don’t win this week we’ll try to get something next week as x points = fourth place = success. You can afford to give up points if you’re only aiming for 70-75 of them in nine months.
Bollocks to that.
Thirty eight wins gets you the league. You won’t win 38 but let’s start with that in mind. There’s a similar philosophy with US presidential nominations. Target a victory in all 50 states. It’s practically impossible as some states are going to absolutely despise you but target all of them. Only losing a couple will see you home. Liverpool should start every season in exactly the same way. Week one, win one. Points, points, points. None of this ‘if we get 10 points from our first six games’ malarkey. What you’ve done there is given up on eight points. Never give up on eight points. Never give up on a single fucking point. Not one. No matter who’s trying to take it from you, be it Chelsea or Watford. Play for a draw and you will probably get a draw, but your mindset has admitted a small defeat. Small defeats are unconsciable.
We’re going to lose game but the only way that that is acceptable is if our victors crawl off the pitch by their teeth and can barely speak to the press an hour after the final whistle because they’re still panting. If Chelsea beat us I want Cesc Fabregas taking gas and air on Match of the Day. That’s not about realism. That should be in our DNA. We do not give up points easily. We don’t give presents. We don’t give up.
And it’s up to us to hold them to that. Not offer tacit consent to another shambolic performance with hangdog expressions and empty words in the programme later. I’m not interested in ‘here come the haters’ or tedious arguments. I just want the points and I want to know why we didn’t get them if we roll over as we did so often last season.
Paul writes: “Some fans still believe that repeating “We Are Liverpool Football Club” to themselves and anyone who’ll listen (while rocking back and forth alone in agitation in front of computer screens) will somehow have an impact in the real world and change the current order. They are unable or unwilling to see the reality and recalibrate. These poor souls are thus condemned to live in constant turmoil, entirely without perspective, where every setback is a disaster — unable to just enjoy football and deal with the Shakespearean slings and arrows.”
That’s a really odd argument for me, particularly the last line. Football is pain. That’s why we love it. It’s joyous masochism. You can’t enjoy football if you’ve lost. Yes, you can admire how close we came (League Cup semi at Stamford Bridge) but that’s as far as you can go with it. The reason we indulge in this peculiar version of self-harming is that the highs far outweigh the lows when we get there. I’ll never forget standing on the terraces in Cardiff after the Suarez hat-trick and just letting the joy of what I’d witnessed wash over me. That was only three points albeit vital ones but it was the sense of something building. What’s more, we’d earned it.
Seasons of low expectations and pointless Novembers, good teams dissembled before they became great teams. You pay for the good times with the bad ones. I’ve always believed that. Yes, we have a polarised view of any result with defeats feeling like two-day hangovers and a good win making us drag out a sheet from somewhere and daub it with pseudo classical soundbites, but it’s better than accepting a beige life.
Being unwilling to see the reality and recalibrate is a major plus. I deny this reality (Dr Who – 1976) and I refuse to recalibrate my desires. You can’t give up. You can think it won’t happen but you can never drift into and accept Villaworld.
Paul is right to prefer owners like FSG rather than oligarchs — I’d like the next league title to be ‘pure’ — but they too are partially responsible for this acceptance. Money is important but it’s never the victory it’s celebrated as. Let us never, ever treat a sponsorship deal with the same acclaim as a trophy. Let us never equate success in the boardroom to success on the pitch. Yes, I’m a fossil but seeing Liverpool’s captain-in-waiting, his shiny skin glowing like a cow in June, praying to be on the cover of a computer game with the #lfcfamily offering social media support LIKE IT MATTERS makes me want to keck. Do that when we’ve won something. Stop pretending we’ve arrived. We haven’t. You have to be better first so how about concentrating on that? I want Jordan Henderson to be sat in a Don Corleone-esque study thinking about what next May’s going to be like and how he’s going to get there, not doing adverts.
Then again, Liverpool’s board meeting upstairs in the Sandon over pints of mild is a bit too corporate for me so maybe I’m not the best judge.
I get the point of accepting that Liverpool are in this position but there has to be ambition. There has to be a mindset of working towards a glorious scenario next year. This isn’t sulking. This isn’t a spoilt child demanding his league title and caterwauling because things aren’t going his way. If anything it’s the opposite.
It’s a suggestion that we go for the throat and destroy any logic that gets in the way. We all have to buy in, at least to begin with, to make this happen. There was a dirty great sign outside Anfield recently with the word ‘DEMAND’ on it so why not do just that?
Neil Atkinson was right on a pod a few weeks ago when he told Rob Gutmann that the fans aren’t talking about winning the league enough. Fourteen months ago we talked of little else. We all bought in. We all set our minds one way. Talk about it. Dream about it.
Win the league.
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Amen to that!
You’ve just made my day.
After THE 6-1 I would have denied the players any close season break and sacked the whole managerial and coaching team. And, regardless of the passage of time, I still feel like that.
That video in Dubai made me want to hawk too.
Until the players attitudes change it could likely happen again.
Time for the whole club to have some ambition and some resolve.
Thank you for articulating my thoughts so perfectly that I don’t need to. This should be compulsory reading for every employee at the club. Every single fucking week.
I’d rather that torture every week and the pain then sit their like some morphine addict smiling while your team is shite. I’m a winner and I’ll never stop willing my team because to win the lge will shatter any pain Liverpool FC have put me through. The men before us sweated blood and cried tears that make us dream so i’ll be damned if I’ll ever accept anything else but being The Best. Reality is for the faint hearted, Liverpool FC is for the strongest heart I’ll Never Walk Alone.
Fabulous. This should be put on the wall in the changing rooms and boardrooms at Anfield, the training ground and the Academy.
Spot on Karl
When did giving up before you start become part of the Liverpool DNA
We may be underdogs for the title but that does not mean that we cannot win it
The myth that money is the only thing that matters is total bollocks, it is important if you dont develop your own players, and it is easier to chuck money at it, but the 2005 champions league run shows what can happen to a group of good players with one or two worldies in if everyone pulls together, Juve proved that again this year. An Anfield crowd that belives is worth a goal start, the flip side is an Anfield crowd that has no faith is like giving a goal to the opponents. Where money does matter is with supporters being asked to pay 50 quid a game, year in year out, faith is then in short supply and this has a detrimental effect on the players individually and collectivley especially for run of the mill games against teams that park the bus.
19 home games 57 points
13 poor teams
5 goodish teams that we can beat and sometimes thrash
1 Chelsea that dogs it every year, but are still there for the taking
50+ points is what we need from Anfield
Belief in victory in the first step to victory. If you lose that you become an also-ran before you even start.
But (as I just posted on the original article) belief and expectation are different things. Belief is wholly a good thing and inspires, whereas expectation tends puts pressure on people and drags them down.
Some people, like Lucas when he was getting hung out to dry by Anfield, are able to draw from their internal stores of self-belief and rise up to it meet it. However, the way the team responded once the waves of belief started flowing around Anfield, in 13/14 or in the 2004/2005 champions league campaign, was truly magical. Both times, expectations were very low going in but we just said fuck it, this year is going to be our year and it (nearly) inspired greatness.
I don’t know, this isn’t going to be very popular, but I think there can be some in between feelings for many supporters between painful “joyous masochism” & accepting “Villaworld” mediocrity.
And this is not just a problem I see in football but in a lot of areas in life, this all or nothing black & white mentality. The 6-1 defeat at Stoke is a perfect example, yes it hurt and made me upset, yes we gave up, but it was just one game. One game that could very well have hurt our players and management, you don’t know for sure, a game that will force them to do better.
But does anyone believe in these nuances anymore? No, sack the bastard and fine someone else, someone who is likely to have an equally bad game in this competitive and draining, Premier League era. Only a few players on the planet can work that hard and fight for 50 plus games a season at the top of the EPL and the cups and we don’t have the money for them.
I just wish we accept that our players and managers our human, that sometimes they are dealing with the smartest and most athletic people in the whole entire planet and we are going to lose sometime, badly, and not tear up the entire script so quickly or worse threaten our management and players personally.
U dont have to post this but as long as u see it come on son liverpool are no longer a big team anymore you know this and i know this what big team comes 6th and 7th every year no big team brendan rodgers woudnt even be able to get the tottenham or everton job but hes the man in charge of liverpool fc liverpool havent won the leauge for like nearly 30years yh thats right 30 years i dnt think u understand how long that is in25 years liverpool have won 1 major trophy champions league one major trophy in 25 years liverpool fc have never ever one the premier leauge ever not even once and its the leauge they play in even blackburn bloody one it
I didn’t know Putin’s spam bots were interested in footy.
And you can’t even spell won-with bloody spellcheck!
Where the fuck were you, Richard, Dick, Dicky or whatever you call yourself, when the teacher was giving the class a lesson on punctuation?
Great reply, don’t bother with any kind of counter argument, just put the guy down. He does have a point to some degree, one trophy in nine years and the anomaly of one second place finish sandwiched between average sixth place finishes. I don’t necessarily agree with the guy but at least represent the grammar police a bit better.
Fantastic read, could”nt agree more and what would be a great start to next season, the very first game at anfield, what i dearly want to see happen, is for every bloody supporter in the ground to wake up and get behind our team right from the first whistle and dont stop until the last whistle, us, the supporters have to do our bit aswell.
You want everyone to get behind the team and support them but yet you constantly want the manager sacked! Pull your head in!! You’re a disgrace taking every opportunity and turning it into “sack Rodgers”. I’ve read your comments on other articles.
Constantly want the manager to be sacked? When? I did after Stoke – something I haven’t written about – but have never said as much. Taking every opportunity? Really? Also, I rarely comment on other articles so I’m a bit lost here. I do criticise the club, mostly for its lack of ambition, but seldom single one man out.
i think he is maybe replying to Ron.
Oh, I see. Sorry Dave.
Sorry Karl. It was in response to Ron. Sick of his negativity seriously. Trolls on every article!!
Great read class
Hard to disagree but I think you might have missed Paul’s point.
You both aren’t saying much different apart from mindset. Finish second in 2016 & for you we lost the league, whereas for Paul we smashed right into the top four and job done.
We all take 2nd right now though!
No we all wouldn’t.
What’s the point of second?
Proving Paul’s point exactly in his article #reality
I think the auteur of this article has pretty clearly tried to differentiate #reality from #dealingwithreality.
Being 2nd is good but being 1st is even better.That is the mentality we should strive to have.It is fine for fans and players to enjoy coming 2nd but if you reflect and think you overachieved you need to analyze why and fill those gaps and try and finish 1st…You cant finish 4th by targeting 4th;the best way to do so is targeting the best team in the league,go toe-to-toe with them as much as possible and then see where we can end up.
This article is about having the right “mentality” as opposed to Paul’s article of “i am ok with 4th today,i will be fine with 10th tomorrow” mentality.
excellent fitting reply to Pauls article! read it myself and thought wtf! we are liverpool and we always need to be aiming at being the top most every year no matter what circumstances!
new seasons approaching! our part as the 12th man is to simply get behind the team, get behind the manager, cheer every pass when we kick off our campaign even when its still 0-0 to show we are behind our team and our players! they need us more than we think they do!
Absolutely brilliant read. Agree with every word! Rather dream of being the best then be fucking Villa or Sunderland. A team should always aspire to be better!
Spot on!
All those fans that advise fans with dreams to ‘go and support Man City’, should bugger off and support Spurs.
The Nivea adverts and the Donuts adverts and the sponsorship deals that wind Karl up so much make it more likely that we’ll the league not less.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, there are lots of grey areas. In fact I’d say there will be sliding scales of how much we expect and similarly a sliding scale as to how little we accept. Even those words themselves don’t always mean the same thing from one conversation to the next. For me it’s just a question of balance. You can expect Liverpool to be a team that will, at some point in the next few years, challenge for the title, without losing your mind every season they don’t. You can also accept a few years outside the top 4 without contributing to a death spiral of mediocrity. You can hold on to those memories of a great past, have hope for the future, and yet not break down into a childish rant when the club slips to a 1-0 loss against Hull.
For me I think much of this conversation comes from the extreme points of view. In my mind there are simply too many fans out there who have let their cynicism get the better of them. They’re complaining about the state of the team but at the same time are so negative in their views that they actually seem to despise the club. They claim to have expectation but they have no actual hope. They’ll say that it’s not good enough and then in the same breath compare the club to Newcastle and Villa, claiming that Liverpool are at a 50 year low or that Rodgers is leading us down a path of failure. Honestly, it’s nothing more than self-indulgent cr@p and it helps no one.
I don’t compel those fans to simply accept Liverpool as a 6th place club and never want more than that. However I think reality is something that should come into the conversation from time to time. There is only so many times you can use the word “should” before you need to realise that you’re not living in the real world. I wouldn’t agree that Liverpool fans need to accept a new place in the order of things and there is no reason to push for that. Didn’t we only just last year come within a result of winning the league? Why isn’t that another realistic target for the near future? But when you consider the changes to the team in that time, was anyone really that surprised with the league position? I know I wasn’t. Disappointed, yes. Surprised? No. I think there lies the key. You can expect all you like, but denying reality is going to get you nothing but pain. If you like pain then great, enjoy it, have some of mine while you’re at it. If you don’t like pain then do something about it. But for everyone’s sake perhaps we can all take just a little bit more responsibility for our own bull%hit.
Great write-up Karl. My sentiments exactly. And I think the supporters’ mindset / attitude, and passionate support (or lack of it) can influence the players and team one way or the other. Well we all know what the 12th Man is capable of. It is definitly about (the owners, the management and coaches, the players and the supporters) not accepting mediocrity, but striving for the top. We know other teams have advantages over us, but that can’t be the reason to give up, or accept that we’ll never reach the top (or even 4th). As the saying goes, aim for the stars, and if you reach the sky, you’ve achieved relative success. Yes, other clubs may have more money and larger, stronger squads, but as we all know, it eventually and ultimately comes down to 11 v 11, and we have proved that we can not only beat those teams, but out-play them. Getting beat occasionally, is part of the journey, to a promised land (because most of us will forever have that hope – in our hearts), but acceptance of mediocrity is never an option.
David Brown
Best part of your article was about the talk. Oh how we love to talk about momentums, run of games, series of matches and all that utter crap.
Barney likes to throw his darts in a series of three. A nice flow, rythm and all that. He isn’t bad is he? wins some doesn’t he? Sure.. he’s got the skills and wins some trophies. Then there’s that fellow. That odd looking little man from Stoke upon Trent. He doesn’t care what his last arrow did. He fires the next, forgets it and throws the third. Points, gather, go for the next arrow. This man wins all the more. He never talks about momentums, he throws his darts one at time. Because the next dart only matters when you need to throw it.
I hate to say it, Mourinho makes his Chelsea play the same way. We got a game, we play, Points, gather, go for the next. Play, Points, next one please.
We’re in a semi final and we’re talking about the final, how winning the trophy will help us. Fuck that, we had a game at hand. Villa at Wembley. Focus on the moment, one game at a time.
Being on top only matters when you need to be there. Not at christmas, somewhere in april/may we need to be there.
One game at a time, Points, Gather… next please
Absolutely spot on Karl. This made my morning. Every Liverpool fan, player, staff and even Owner should read this. I will never ever expect lower expectations regardless of how much we hurt by falling short every year. It’s life and the thought of it is cringeworthy. The day we accept “that” reality ( that Liverpool should finish 5th or 6th is our standard) is the day we count ourselves sheepishly out of the elite clubs. Live to fight another day every season till we get there. If people cannot get inspired to win trophies,with every ounce of their mind and being then they shouldn’t be supporting Liverpool Football Club. An illustrious past should now be the order of the day. Sentimentality must be channeled in the right way to inspire and bring out the best of every one connected to the club. We have to keep fighting even if it gets dirtier in the ring. Even when we know we might not be the strongest. Even when we know the score cards are not in your favour. LFC never accepts defeat.
poor article. Paul Little is spot on with his article.
cowards are afraid of facing reality.
Wanting to win the league is cowardly?
An open invitation to the “Rodgers Out: Klopp In” instant gratification merchants. Acknowledging reality does not mean accepting second best.
Sure, I want the club to aim for the top, but the difference between me and a lot of others seems to be that if the club doesn’t finish on top, I don’t immediately look for a short term fix, or demand that the manager be sacked because if only we had a different manager it would make all the difference. If other clubs are better/richer, then they are better/richer, end of.
I understand Paul’s argument, and I respect him for coming out and saying it, perhaps it needed to be said, but…bollocks to that.
If you’re not in the league to win it, what are you in it for?
I don’t ever want to accept a ‘beige’ (to use Karl’s words) approach to a season. No.
Read the article on the “transfer committee and who does what” It should say” the transfer committee and who has done what”. BARRY HUNTER and Dave Fallows. Please! We really are digging the bottom of the barrel.
That was something the Echo wrote, Stephen. Not us.
Tell ya what Karl. Put a couple of hundred quid on us winning the league next season.
I’m aiming for us to win the league but I wouldn’t bet on it this year (lost far too much every other season over the past 25 years doing it).
And that’s reality!
So, are you prepared to back up your stance? Or will you make an excuse such as I don’t bet. I don’t think you would because I don’t think you believe it.
Point being, I think we’ll win the league at the start of every new season but I also think I’m irresistible to women but never seem to get laid. Something doesn’t add up and it’s because saying it doesn’t make it happen.
The art of faith is subjective to the believers age. It’s 50 + years since Shanks’s team first won the league and the following 25 years or so witnessed us at our Trophy winning best. Those of us who can remember all or most of that are naturally the biggest believers with the most faith. As the saying goes seeing is believing. If the Lords Apostles were around today then they would tell us a cracking yarn about the Big Fella and they’d be all over Twitter et all telling everyone to believe, keep the faith and I would say the rest of us may need a little more convincing. Well it’s the same with footy. The younger fellas are probably finding it a little more challenging to keep the Faith although 2005 shatters my argument some what.
Be reasonable, demand the impossible…
There’s no right or wrong way to feel about this stuff. Passes time, I suppose.
I just want them to sign Lacazette. I would instantly begin talking about a title challenge. Add Illaramendi and we’ll have it sewn up by March.
It is silly season and I am perfectly entitled to have silly thoughts. At the same time, I’ve been a steadfast Rodgers backer. I think if you give him a proper striker, he will at the very least have us in the conversation. That’s all I can ask. We may not win the title, but we should make it go down to the last weekend every season.
Look at his record since Sturridge arrived. Suarez was banned or simply gone, but Rodgers still delivered. That’s why my heart is set on Lacazette. The guy is another Sturridge. We won’t be seeing another Suarez any time soon. But two Sturridges will give Rodgers everything he needs to win games and win games the Liverpool Way.
If Benteke arrives, I’ll come around. But I want the club to make us dream again. And I want the dream to begin as soon as possible. How soon is now?
Brilliant piece of writing . At the end of last season I was devastated by the way it ended and wanted whole sale changes but as soon as we bought Frimino and the other signings but especially him having never seen him kick a ball live I said to one of my mates I think we can we it next season, what’s the point if we don’t try. Can’t be doing with the attitude let’s get 4 that will do, that’s what we tried last season and see where it got us. For 13 games in the middle of last season we had title winning form that should not be forgotten, we have massively improved our squad and first team so all we need now is that form for 38 games this time
We’re gona win the league!!!
I agree, what’s Jordan achieved? to be on cover of computer game, still disgusted when he tried to set up Gerrard v Palace when he was in far better position to shoot and were losing the game. That moment demonstrated he is not Captain matreial for me.
Sakho is the Man ,the only one who didn’t lay down at Stoke and has previous experince, or Lucas who has demostrated strength of character over a number of years.
Our Mgr, our Captain our fans must have winning mentality and that means, screaming Liverpool, Liverpool at the top of your,lungs when opposition score.
Having read only the title and the first line of the article on the home page, I somehow knew it could only be from the inimitable Cenci.. Great read..
4 years on and how things have changed…..