AFTER a game like that, you want to see a reaction. A change. Something. It’s not acceptable for Liverpool to lose 6-1 at Stoke.
But before Liverpool do anything it is vital the people running the club have a conversation with Brendan Rodgers and ask him two things — what he intends to do to correct this season and what is needed structurally to make that happen.
That’s not to say FSG should blindly follow what he says but more that they establish a starting point to the big decisions that need to be made. Quickly.
Rodgers looks exhausted. Broken, even. It’s understandable. The calm and confidence of last year eroded to leave a manager making endless tactical changes game to game in search of the difference maker.
In the last few months that changed again with the manager tweaking and tinkering during games up to two or three occasions per match.
I think Rodgers recognised very early in the season that this squad was not fit for purpose for the challenges it faced. And month by month he has felt more and more responsible to win the three points himself.
Ultimately, he will be held responsible for the recruitment of players but only those involved truly know what went on last summer, how our recruitment is administered and what the overarching policy and strategy is.
Whatever the details, I think we can all agree it was a disastrous summer and every manager is defined by their signings (or the signings made on their watch).
As the season wore on, the manager’s trust in individuals and the group as a whole eroded before our eyes and that problem peaked after the Manchester United defeat.
A glance at the results since that game says Liverpool never recovered from that body blow and it was downhill from there on in.
After ending the season in disgrace at Stoke, and with Rodgers missing all the targets for the season — top four, silverware, progression in the Champions League — it would be worrying for a club of Liverpool’s standing not to consider the manager’s position. The club can’t afford to stand still.
Last summer’s record transfer spend, the start to the season, the European embarrassment, the end-of-season form and the eventual league position means the odds are stacked against Rodgers now. There is a good chance he loses his job. Many will say deservedly so.
But in many ways Liverpool is a very strange club right now and I’m not convinced changing the manager is the cure all many perceive it to be. Anyone who thinks changing the manager alone will result in trophies and title challenges is living in a fantasy world.
One trophy in nine years, one top four place in six seasons, one season that ended in more than 63 points since 2009, one decent summer transfer window since 2006 — these facts are not solely attributable to Brendan Rodgers.
The failure to purchase players who are ruthless in either penalty area has made the manager’s job a near on impossible one.
So it could be that, despite all the suggestions to the contrary, Rodgers can still save himself and win himself another crack at getting it right. All the indications tonight are that his future still hinges on a review with FSG president Mike Gordon. So what can Brendan do to secure a place in the dug out come August?
He needs to outline a clear and enthused plan to the club. That would likely mean fresh faces in the coaching team and a clear strategy in respect of the squad, team and various methods of play. I’m all for being game specific with your tactical plans but the last few months have been alarming.
Rodgers, I think, felt he had to do something extreme to pull this season off and it led to far too much tinkering and rash moves before and during games.
Regardless, I think there are bigger problems and bigger questions.
What do the owners actually want from Liverpool? How seriously does everyone at the club want success? What is the recruitment policy? Who does the recruiting? Why do Liverpool have a reputation for missing their top targets, moving slowly and being tight on wages? What is the strategy for the Academy recruitment and why does it get overhauled every three or four years?
It’s well documented that Liverpool’s wage bill and net spend leave them realistically fighting for fourth or fifth in the Premier League if they simply copy the rest. Liverpool have to do things differently to beat the system. This season I believe Liverpool copied the rest and tried to build a squad to compete on all fronts. That was always destined to fail.
Liverpool have a big enough budget to have three players on the books earning £200,000 plus a week. This season they have struggled for goals and I don’t think that’s something you can coach. Instead, you buy talent to provide you with numbers in terms of assists and goals and build your team around them in a balanced manner. Liverpool are building a team and squad that is great in the middle third of the pitch and useless in both penalty areas.
They can have an incredible first 13-14 players but the budget limitations mean you need to cut your cloth accordingly. That means having a smaller squad and sacrificing the domestic cup competitions. It does not mean spending less than the rest on your main group.
Even Chelsea and City can only start 11 players. Liverpool need to have 13-14 European elite players and pad the squad out with cheaper established Premier League players, youngsters and academy graduates.
Focus on the league and the league only. Liverpool need to risk coming ninth to come first and the strategy needs to be discussed publicly from the very top — from the boardroom.
FSG are smart businessman. Liverpool finished second with a small group, lots of goals and complete focus on the league. Surely FSG will recognise that and use that as a template. What’s the alternative in the current closed shop at the top of the Premier League?
From the Academy to the boardroom to recruitment to the strategy of the club there needs to be a complete root and branch review and a commitment to collective responsibility rather than the blame being allowed to fall to the feet of one man.
Once that is sorted then by all means discuss the manager’s position. But until those things are resolved the manager of Liverpool FC next season, whoever that may be, has no chance of title challenges and trophies.
READ: LOSS OF A LIFETIME IS THE ENDING OF BRENDAN
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
so whats the first thing that brendo does on this amazing jouney of reassurance he resigns kolo toure ? WTF. Lets forget wisdom and illori. He is resigning the very deadwood we should be getting rid of. These are the minimum player i would lose, toure, lucas, allen, lovren, balo, lambert, borini, sterling for the right price etc.
dont think i can watch another 12months of this
do you get the feeling we will be pawned with players from europe who are passed there best.
It is too easy to make change for change sake. Act in haste and you may not get any improvement.
It is likely Klopp would be an improvement on Rogers, that is assuming he would come. He is a bigger name and likely an attraction to elite players.
However that in itself does not guarantee success, could he adapt to the league, would the elite players succeed? Man Utd spent big, Di Maria has been a flop, as has Falcao. Fellaini has taken a year to come good. But despite spending £150 million they are only 6 points better off. Wenger has scored less points than less year.
It is worrying times for Liverpool, we risk getting stuck in the Tottenham conundrum, occasionally threatening top 4 but not quite getting there.
If Klopp doesn’t come, then where does that leave us? There are other good managers out there but would they utilise the fans, or work under the FSG model? We have to remember though we are still a big club, we don’t have the resources of the top 4.
At the end of the day though we need to back our manager and players, as if we don’t there is little chance we move forward. The last person to lose so heavily was a Bill Shankley who lost 7-2, in the early 60’s he did not end up doing to badly did he?
YNWA
in 3 seasons Rodgers has failed to create a resilient midfield and defence and started and ended the season with less than 1pt in 3 over extended chunks of games.
I think we can safely say we’re not in Shankly territory.
Yeah, but then there’s last year. 101(?) goals in a 38 game league season. Most league goals since before 1900-odd I remember hearing. 11 wins on the bounce which was the most anyone’s managed in this league since United in I think 08/09 was the other factoid going round.
It’s crazy to think that we got beat by a bigger margin by Stoke than what we did to Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham, United and loads more that we battered in 13/14 and there’s no way of describing that capitulation in Gerrard’s last game of all games as anything other than a disgrace. 1 point out of 6 against relegated Hull this season. Shite all out of Palace with players like Bolasie being made to look as undefendable as Suarez. I think if you’re not gonna be one of the ‘I was all Suarez’ knobheads you’ve got to say 4 league goals between our non-Sturridge strikers was unforeseeably dreadful. Especially when you consider two of them are Rodgers’ signings and the other is a lad with a big reputation and a goal record.
But with all that said I’m just not prepared to cut ties with the idea something akin to January-April 2014 coming back with a couple of big additions unless we can definitely get someone in who has a proven, winning record above what Rodgers can point to. I’m not sure FSG are arsed enough to change managers again and I’m certainly not as sure as others seem to be that the likes of Klopp would fancy it. People throwing Ancelotti’s name out there sound as daft as all the dickheads who were saying Mourinho in 2012 to me.
How can we possibly keep him. Imagine drawing and losing the first 2 games and 3 of the other 4 have won both. The pressure will be immense. He is not equipped to deal with it. He hasn’t got the experience to draw upon and the try anything and everything of the latter half of this season suggests he hasn’t got the nous to deal with it either.
Someone somewhere mentioned that this could be his Fergie moment. I remember Ferguson frothing at the mouth after winning a cup final promising the fans a team of his would never play that bad again. Brendan managed two outstandings after the Stoke game. I know he will say differently behind closed doors but if rumours are true he has irked large groups of players over his treatment of a select few. I can’t help but feel he commands little respect.
I dont understand the people who say he will learn from this. He has shown no signs of learning anything. As soon as pressure was applied again this season he reverted to type. He will be under immediate pressure at the start of the season and I cant see him coping. He will learn from this but at another club. Pressure there will be laughable to what he had to put up with here.
I say reverts to type but we don’t really know what that is do we. His death by football was quickly abandoned. Bold, gutsy some might say. High press, fast ball retention. A complete change in personnel means that’s no longer an option. Who is he going to buy this Summer and how is he going to play? 20 million pound defenders he has no faith in? Strikers that don’t fit the style? 3 years he has had. I have no idea what that first eleven will be like next year or how it will play.
Some people can’t bear starting from scratch again with a new project. It seems like lose lose to me. Brendan or no, this is a new project. Coutinho aside is there anyone you would despair at if we got rid.
BBC radio interviewee, a long term confidante of Klopp, said he considers Klopp/LFC would be perfect for each other. Gave the impression FSG just need to ask.
They have a duty to do so.
What do we want our club to be? The premier league and the champions league go to the clubs that spend the most money. The clubs that spend the most money become global brands. They become tourist destinations. Loyal local supporters are priced out. Alienated.
Is that what we want? Big money? Big stars? Big trophies? A global brand? A tourist destination? A crowd of spectators and no supporters? It comes as a package.
I want a club that values us as supporters. I want a team that will work for us. I want players we can get behind because we know they are giving their all … and then give more because they love us. They might not win, but they will give everything they have because they love us. And we will love them.
That’s the Liverpool I supported as a child, before the glory days went to our heads. I don’t want to to support a global brand because a global brand doesn’t care about me. I don’t care about winning trophies anymore because all a trophy signifies is a big bank account. Trophies today say nothing about the people, their passion. I want my team to be a symbol of our passion, not our bank account.
well said.
Very true!
The article overlooks that when Rodgers first came, vowing to Swansea that he would not approach any of their players, he lusted after the likes of Allen, Williams, Sigurdsson…and of course signed Borini. Solid players, but not a CL grade among them. The sort of players to get you out of the Championship at best. In three years he has not risen above that ambition and shows no sign of learning to be an EPL manager. He us out- manoeuvred at every turn by every other EPL manager. even those deemed failures by their own clubs. Certainly he is not the only problem, but he is the root cause of all the other problems.
Keep him. Get behind him. Every fan should be behind the team and the manager. Imagine next season where every fan is behind him and we push together, we all pull in the same direction. The team bus being cheered into Anfield will never be forgotten… It already has. Why? Is it too late to get that collective effort from all supporters with Rodgers at the helm… it seems so.
What a shame. I am 25 and excluding 2005/2006, that was by far the most involved, engrossed and passionate I have been. We may not have won the league but just being involved come May was special. I want to do it again and I want to do it with Rodgers. This season has been atrocious on so many occasions. Luis Suarez has a lot to answer for.
I hope he gets to honor his contract. One more season with a title fight from Rodgers, win it or not, during his tenure I would not have one complaint.
Yes, if it was Kenny. No if it was Rodgers or Hodgson. Imagine where we’d be if we stuck with Roy? My fear is that’s where we’ll be if we stick with Brendan.
Every fan could get behind him all they want,he still wouldn’t be able to set up a side with a solid defence and a midfield that could protect it.
You can safely say the players have stopped playing for him and have lost faith in his management and methods.Going by the performances of Hull,Palace and Stoke it would be interesting to see how he can regain the confidence of the players,if he stays.
I wouldn’t say he has lost the dressing room at all. I don’t think we can safely say the players aren’t playing for him, that’s a bit misguided.
Sterling spitting his dummy out. Gerrard, rightly or wrongly, revealing he was going mid-way through the season, no Sturridge and none of the recruits stepping up are why we finished 6 points of fourth. A two game swing and we would have got fourth and to two semi-finals. I just think fans over-react and are too fickle these days. All things considered he hasn’t done too badly.
A poor article. Blind faith in a mediocre manager not fit to manage the club. Rodgers is the biggest problem at the club. To suggest the squad is not top 4 calibre is absolute rubbish.
“A poor article”???
“Blind faith in a mediocre manager . . “???
I am sorry, but it you can’t manage elementary reading comprehension you’re better off not bothering to comment.
Sean Rogers is a gem of an analyst and he did NOT pen a ‘poor article’ that showed ‘blind faith in a mediocre manager’. That’s just B.S.
A gem of a cocsucker, anyone trying to deflect blame from BR is not a Liverpool supoorter but a discusting butt buddy of Brenda Dodger, fuck off…BR OUT, garbage article,,NOTHING wrong with our squad qhat so fucking ever!!!!! Goddamn open ypur fucking eyes, you are taking us down to the championship with this shit…
So, is this… I mean, like… Are you for real? Because I don’t think I’m having that you’re real, you see.
If keeping Rodgers will push knobs like Mido and Chris Mc away from our club, I’m all for it.
More embarrassing than the club’s performance is the nature of our online (and now in-sky) fan base. Used to be hailed as the most knowledgeable fans. Now diluted considerably by a bunch of knee jerk FM2015 twitter teens with no soul, no grit, no class… Just like all the rest now, and my biggest fear is we’ll get what they all deserve.
The internet is one of the worst things that could have happened to football.
5th biggest club in league and we came sixth. BR was so desperate to win something he failed on all fronts. He can blame recruitment committee but same committee signed Sturridge and coutinho. He’s good at taking the credit there, he talks too much shit but never takes the blame for recruitment never mind tactical errors. He’s all about image. He is a good coach but Klopp is better.
Good article. Sean is right to say that replacing the manager won’t solve all the problems. At the same time, BR has had 3 years (remember him saying “judge me in 3 years”), during which time £220m has been spent on transfers over which BR has had at the very least some say (possibly the casting vote depending on which version of the transfer committee process you believe), and in this season the team has performed badly, seems to have lost its spirit and commitment at key points, and, most crucially, failed to achieve any of its targets even when those targets were revised downwards part way through. So, it’s difficult to argue that BR isn’t at least part of the problem. Certainly, in any of the many businesses with which I’ve worked, a leader who failed to achieve any of their targets for the year after 3 years in the job and significant investment, would be considered part of the problem and would likely be replaced.
So, it seems that replacing the manager would solve some of the problems and, therefore, is worth doing. Especially, when there are more experienced managers, with far superior track records, available.
I work with a lot of businesses and business owners. When the successful ones are asked to what do they attribute their success, the most frequent answer is “getting the best possible people in the key jobs”. So, It would be remiss of FSG, both as business people and custodians of the Club, if they did not take the opportunity to get the best possible people in each key role. And right now there are better managers than BR who are available and, it would seem, interested in coming to LFC.
well, he wasn’t so moved to try and win that he might attempt to play to Balotelli’s strength? See that flick on from Lambert for gerrard to score? What’s wrong with that as a tactic? Why didn’t we see it before?
What’s wrong with using Balotelli as a hold up guy and have runners running off him? Soton play that way EVERY week and have a massive GD because of it. Why didn’t we do it? Is there a better hold up player than Balo?
Rodgers choice is to get really complex about the game and try odd formations which stops us creating an identity. He won’t do the simple things and he won’t protect the vulnerable parts of our game. And he repeats the mistakes over 19 games.
That is the big problem with Rodgers alongside his txfer choices like Lovren and Lallana. Those 2 and Balo aren’t top 4 material and neither is his coaching, and Raheem has spotted that.
But as for the owners, they have been flexible, spent and lost a lot of money and have modified their txfer patterns each summer as they try to learn – despite the whining on the podcast.
Last summer they didn’t quibble about fees, they overpaid – which you guys complain about – they split the funds between older epl experienced immediate starters and young highly rated continental players.
So there weren’t too many to integrate into the first team (3, lallana, lovren and balo) and the young purchases could play backup roles but still have something to offer now.
that seems eminently sensible but the picks for the starters were not good, and then rodgers wouldn’t play to their strengths anyhow. That’s not about the owners.
So perhaps they’ll get their DoF now but they’ve trusted football people who have let them down. They’ve been giving and flexible and generous. They will keep trying until they find what works and that deserves recognition not whining.
I disagree that changing the manager will not change anything. I think that the manager makes the weather, he creates the team in his own identity. I don’t think Brendan is a Liverpool manager too smooth , too political, too media savvy.
I think we need a manager who makes other teams uncomfortable , who represents the fight of the city , who after a defeat blames the ball , the ref, the
Pitch but takes it deeply personally. Someone who defeat is an affront , a disgrace, who wins by any means . Some one who we gets it, someone who manifestly shares our passion. Someone you can say I don’t know what he does to the enemy but by god sir he scares me. If you can find that perhaps you can engage the toxic tribes that we have become. But when you do unite us , you will have a fight on your hands and whoever you are Stoke or Real Madrid you will know you have been in a game when you play us.
Spot on. Jurgen Klopp will make different demands to say, Eddie Howe. It’s whether FSG wil risk such an appointment. They should, he’s shown over the years that he can operate within budget and develop players: it’s a no-brainer.
FSG are, first and foremost, investors. One of their young Turks has sunk £216,000 in largely junk stocks and showed he has no idea how to manage theinvestment. I happen to think there is the potential in the squad to restore is to above ‘par’, but Brendan Rodgers won’t do it. Someone said to me today that Benitez could have got 10 or more goals out of Lambert and Balo. Maybe, maybe not. But they look like rubbish under Rodgers, and they are not. Markovic had been trashed by BR. Manquillo too. I believe just about anybody else could resurrect us, but Rodgers won’t. The season was NEARLY saved by his being forced to play Lucas and Sakho, and was lost when they were unavailable and he went back to his own preferences.
FSG sacked a better man than Rodgers after a moe succesful season. I’ll be amazed if we don’t have a new manager within a month.
£216,000,000 of course.
Great post Red – couldn’t agree more. I don’t want us to be top of the Fair Play League every year and mid-table in the one that matters. I’d love to see us go for a win-at-all-costs guy like Simeone (yeah I know he’s just signed a new contract but so what). I want us to be hated by other teams fans, like we hate Chelsea and Mourinho. I’m not arsed about playing pretty football and winning fuck-all, I just want us to win by any means possible. Just imagine Simeone and his man-mountain of an assistant Burgos standing on the touchline intimidating the linesman and referee. The players, other teams’ managers, Sky and the other media twats wouldn’t take the piss out of those two. I never again want to hear shite teams fans like those at Stoke shouting ‘ole’ as they take the piss out of us. For that to happen Brendan has got to go.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29101843
‘But for German Burgos – a man who has played international football, beaten cancer, fronted a rock band, starred in a reality TV show and threatened to rip Jose Mourinho’s head off – you get the feeling he’ll take it all in his stride. ‘
Haha, get in! Someone get a ‘PASCOE OUT BURGOS IN’ message flying about over the Mersey immediately.
Agree with loads of this, Sean. Therapeutic calm amongst all the (rightful for once – shipping 5 against Stoke in a 25 minute window for Christ sake) fury and/or disillusionment.
I think FSG need to communicate exactly what they’re trying to do with Liverpool so everyone knows where they stand and then we can judge accordingly. Otherwise, freak seasons aside we’ll be having the same confused arguments 5-10 years from now never mind next season, and that’s regardless of which manager is in the dugout.
It all comes down to one major weakness to me: The manager is incapable (apparently) of selecting players and direct them appropriately to play a bog-standard 4231 to good effect, despite the fact that, at this point, the squad (and academy) is full of players who’ve had 4231 with the proverbial ‘mother’s milk’.
In retrospect, the fact that he couldn’t make good use of Nuri Sahin on loan in his first season is telling. Additionally, the fact that he couldn’t manage to get something more/better out of Iago Aspas (yes, I know he’s not a great player, and yes I know he had that bad execution of a training ground corner-kick routine — yes, that is precisely what it was) but persisted with Victor Moses on loan is another symptom, in retrospect.
Changing Brendan Rodgers with just anyone (even someone really good) will not change EVERYTHING that ails Liverpool FC at the moment, but it will be a crucial component of remedying things that need remedying.
So, a root and branch investigation to figure it all out…who is supposed to do that, exactly? LFC would need to bring someone in who knows football, because currently there’s nobody like that at the club.
So it’s a bit ironic that you’ve suggested here that LFC needs “a commitment to collective responsibility rather than the blame being allowed to fall to the feet of one man.” To do what you’ve asked for, it the blame — and responsibility — should absolutely fall on one man, a Director of Football.
I can’t see BR taking us anywhere it is time to get a top coach so we can attract top players, twenty five years is a long time that we won BPL so I want my beloved liverpool to compete at least
There’s not one team in the BPL or around world that fears liverpool like they use to, all they do is come to Anfield take there 3 points and off they go
Some fans are talking as if Jurgen Klopp is sat at the end of a phone, waiting nervously to be told he’s got the LFC job. I hate to admit it but LFC just don’t carry that sort of gravitas any more. Personally, I think Klopp is more likely to be Real Madrid’s next manager than ours. And as for Ancelotti, dream on. I don’t think he’s ever managed in the Europa League.
You should never let go of one branch until you’ve got the other hand fixed firmly to the next. FSG are calculated businessmen and will not sack Rodgers until a suitable replacement is earmarked. He’s going to be our manager next season so start accepting it. Just pray that we sign Martinez, Benteke and one other big name. If we make those big signings I back Rodgers to get 4th. 4th?????? I know. But that’s where we are. Last season was an anomaly.
Bore of with this trash
Get down to Woodison.
anyone who wants BR in charge is a fucking manc, all talk about players is nothing but a deflection of problems which is absolute tosh and pathetic and deserves to get some asses kicked to the fucking limit!!!!! WE have taken 1 point from the last 4 PL games vs hull,westbrom,palace and stoke! We will more likely get relegated with this form then get to a title challenge… I cant understand what is wrong with peoples brains, because we dont have Suarez and Sturridge doesnt mean we should loose 3-1 at home to midtable crap and away 6-1 to more midtable crap! Fucking eat donkey cum if you think this clown deserves anything other that getting spit at for taking this club backwards in 3 years§!!!!!
Not 1 single minute will i watch again under this clown, we have plenty of quality players in this squad, BR is the worst coach ever….EVER
BR OUT NOW YOU balllickers! IF not FSG take him with you you fucks
HOW CAN ANYONE TALK about the players when the clown in charge of them is the most incomeptent liar of them all” we almost won the league in spite of him not because of him!!!! BR OUT he willl 10000% take us to a relegation battle
accept Brendan ??? You fucking parasite,,i would rather support wrexham than accept this crap.. IF BR remains in his job there will be fucking riots,, wait and see…BR is gone and noone on earth can sAVE the clown mr damon the fucking retard williams
Blocked dickhead. Can’t be arsed with you railroading every thread with this shite.
Good stuff. We all argue and we all talk shit but he’s taking the piss. He’ll drive people away from the comments.
Amen to that!
i actually quite like him..
we all thought things couldnt get worse than hodgson, he had a worse squad of players to work with, zero tactical nouce.. but we never played that badly under him.
im not saying Rodgers is a worse coach than Roy, but its obvious he’s reach his celling.. a nice guy, tried his best but best for both parties if he moves on.
What’s worrying is how the 1-6 defeat shows the players hold the manger in very little regard. They must have known even a draw meant his Brendon’s future as their manger would have been in doubt yet they put in the worst performance from a Liverpool team in my lifetime. They didn’t play for Rodgers. They did the opposite. Then again, they didn’t play for Liverpool Football Club, Steven Gerrard or the fans either.
I don’t understand the whole notion that we need a manager who fits FSG’s philosophy of bringing players through and nurturing talent, therefore a top, proven winner isn’t required.
1) Any philosophy FSG have about football is utter bollocks and should be ignored.
2) Youth and nurturing are a given. They are not how you win titles. It’s just something the club should be doing anyway.
3) Why not go for a manager who’s only philosophy is knowing how to win!? “Is Ancelloti going to fit with Liverpool’s philosophy?” If we want to buy on cheap and all pray they become winners and pretend the right way to do things then, no! If we want an experienced winner who might drag this club forward and give it an element of prestige again within the game, YES!!!
Whilst I agree LFC have plenty of issues I’m now of the belief that this kind of attitude is just masking the biggest one. I think Jim Boardman’s been right all along – this job has come too early for Rodgers. I’m not putting huge emphasis on the Stoke game, I just think if we look at the results and performances of this season over the opposition / players available to our team, we’ve clearly fallen short. We’ve failed in all our crucial games under him apart from the second half of last season and the odd City game. I think he’s good enough against 10th place down but not the better teams. I almost think he’s blagged it all with his silver tongue. I don’t see much substance. I’m not convinced he can get the best from players as we believed last season and in fact, I’d say he’s knocked the confidence of a fair few. By all means sort the other issues out but we have to sort the manager issues too. We need a new one.
It’s a fair point Robin.Brendan never wasted an opportunity to tell everybody how smart he was last season and couldn’t resist the same claims at certain times this season.
But ; and it’s a big BUT! If he goes do we finish up with another of the same ilk?
You say, quite rightly,that there are other issues and I couldn’t agree more.The thing that concerns me though is that FSG’s whole philosophy seems to be more concerned with growing their investment.Look at last season while we were flying high.Most of what came out of the Club was about new sponsorship deals.
It’s one thing to be prudent and cautious and not take risks and if you’re involved in an industry where money pours in hand over fist why would you take risks?
Of course the danger there is that you can only stand still for so long before you start going backwards in football.It probably won’t make much difference to our income if we slip another few places over the next couple of years and that’s a frightening prospect for us supporters.
The appointment of Rodgers sits perfectly with FSG “Moneyball” and “Soccernomics” philosophies.As did their transfer dealings and stalling on players contracts.That’s what we’re up against now.
We can only hope that some “serious” suitor buys them out sooner rather than later.There’s still a chance that we can get back.But I fear that a New Manager isn’t going to be the solution to ALL our problems!
any manger we get in will always be fighting with one hand tied behind their back because the club is sticking strictly to the rules of FFP (we are the only club that does). but I’d rather have a proven winner at the helm than a used car salesman with a silver tongue.
I really do not understand why anyone cares one flying fuck what FSG’s “philosophy’ is. Liverpool already have a philosophy and FSG clearly do not understand what that is. We need a manager who understands LFC’s philosophy and implements it. Rodgers did last season, but I think he’s been too influenced by people on another continent who understand very little about Liverpool, English football and the way the club should be run.
THE PHILOSOPHY COMES FROM THE BOOT-ROOM, NOT THE BOARDROOM (IN ANOTHER FUCKING CONTINENT).
That said, FSG have invested money. Even Hicks and Gillet saw hundreds of millions of pounds wasted on poor signings. The 6 top signings Liverpool have made in last 10 years the managers have got the credit for, the rest are the fault of the directors. Funny that.
FSG sign the cheques!
My fear is if we don’t we’ll lose Coutinho next season and my hope is if we do then it maybe offers Sterling an olive branch out of the mess he’s in.
The thing is Brian, I’ve said from day one I respect what FSG are trying to do and kind of stand by that. The only problem is it’s failing and needs adjusting more than scrapping. Firstly, we need to be in the black. Ok, the FFP penalties have loosened but they weren’t to know that and we still don’t know the consequences of not complying. Debt is always bad. Secondly, we needed to grow our brand (hate that term but it has merit) and expand our stadium, and thirdly we had to get back into the Champions League, despite being a tough ask and also be able to survive when not in it. So, where have they gone wrong? That’s a rhetorical question. They’ve gone wrong in the transfer targets and acquisition of those targets.
The money has certainly been there. They’ve allowed us to spend £350m of our income on player transfers in 5 years. Last season they allowed us to buy players for £25m, £20m, £20m and £16m. Did we get ‘value’ for that £80m? Again, rhetorical, the answer is no. We attempted to get Sanchez, we paid £20m for a defender and £25m for a midfielder both of whom weren’t intended as ‘value’. Balotelli was a straight forward buy at £16m too. Lazar, Can, and Origi were the ‘value’ buys with Moreno somewhere in the middle of the 2 groups. Then there was a bit of squad padding. So, I don’t think there’s too much wrong there except the obvious 2 things.
1) We didn’t get our target. This is a 50/50 issue between us (probably) not offering him enough and the simple fact that we don’t have much pull, especially in Europe, combined with (possibly) not having suitable plan B’s.
2) We bought badly, primarily the established players we bought. We were ok paying £20m for Lovren but not £20m for Bony.
It suggests to me someone doesn’t know what they’re doing. My feeling is too much emphasis is placed on Michael Edwards. A story emerged last week that when all the PL defenders are thrown into his computer software then Lovren comes out top of the pile. My problem is, if we had someone in his position who knows football then they could have spotted the abnormality. Edwards is an FSG ‘moneyball’ man and is, in my view, the biggest problem for the club. How many other targets has he vetoed because his software disagreed? Then there’s Rodgers who clearly doesn’t know a good player when he see’s one.
This is all easily remedied. Instead of buying 3 players at £20m, £20m and £25m buy 2 at an average of £32.5m. Instead of having 3 wage bills of £75k a week have 2 at £112.5k a week. Then pad the squad out with your Milner’s and Ings. Fuck this analytics shit off and Edwards with it.
The Sterling issue is slightly different but comes down to 2 things. 1) We missed our chance to extend his contract by trying to be too smart and then, I believe, with Gerrard and Suarez going, combined with Rodgers being at the helm, Sterling simply didn’t fancy us to match his ambition.
So, we just need to loosen the purse strings a bit. One could say, obviously dickhead, that’s what we mean by FSG lack ambition but prior to this season we haven’t been able to afford to and still comply with FFP. This is the first season we can. So, I’ll give FSG this summer to show they want us to be successful before I turn. Rodgers was a bold call but I don’t think it lacked ambition as such. I think he fitted in with their (now flawed) model.
P.s What I found interesting was getting in from the Instanbul thing last night and seeing Mike Gordon mentioned in this article. I’ve never heard of him so went online to read up on him. I found an article from 15 months ago which said he was the one who ran Liverpool on behalf of FSG. Who knew that? Maybe a little transparency wouldn’t go amiss.
I suppose my point is, FSG have tried to get it right. They’ve learned everything from watching the Glazers. They know it’s success that will make them money. They’ve just been confined by the clubs books. Now that’s changed it’s time for them to change and start attracting better players. Venture capitalists always cut the purse strings of a struggling business but it’s normally only until they get back on their feet. We’re back on our feet now. This summer is the one where we’ll know a lot more about their ambition.
Good points again Robin.
I wouldn’t hold ManU up as shining example of anything to anybody!
But here’s the killer.The Glazers bought ManU in the middle of the world financial collapse in 2005.FSG bought Liverpool in 2010.
Since 2010 ManU have spent a net average of $80 million per season on players.Liverpool have spent an average of $40 million.
I could go through the respective balance sheets and debt but the main thing is that for whatever their motives the Glazers realise that in this business you have to have speculate to accumulate.£20 million players are 10 a penny nowadays!
And Manu is now valued roughly 3 times the value of Liverpool!
Well, Utd prove a point – success brings more money for the owners. They’re now worth 3 times what we’re worth. The Glazers were the influence for FSG getting involved. They’re well aware about the need for success but they won’t do it against a back drop of debt. It’s the opposite to a boom or bust argument. They’ve always invested all the money the club has over. If they continue, that could rise from the $40m average due to both tv money and not having a legacy debt. In the last 5 years Utd have made twice what we’ve made, gross, every year. That’s reflected in their average transfers being twice ours.
My only point here, mate, is that I personally, don’t buy this argument knockin about that FSG have no ambition. Balanced books and sustainability is all well and good when you sell it but if you’re the best in your business then it blows anything else out the water. There’s a pot of gold for any owner that restores Liverpool to the peak. They feel they can do it by squaring away Liverpool’s past problems, then building foundations, then building on those foundations. I feel the 3rd leg is starting soon.
Last summer we saw our established players reach the £25m transfer mark and our youth over £10m. I’m hoping the next stage is two fold. Transfers reach £35m and wages go from £100k for a decent player to £150k (for a select few, building up each year). I think they have a policy. Some of needs changing (says me, with a disposal income in double figures). These bastards have made billions. You don’t do that by not learning from mistakes, by standing still, by under investing, by not being reactive and adaptive.
The problem here is simple. They’re looking at it over 15 years, we’re looking at it season by season. They’re only bothered where we are in 10 – 15 years, we’re only bothered where we are today and were yesterday.
I don’t go along with the idea that the players downed tools because of the manager. We’ve all worked with dickheads for managers, but do you stop working because of that. Do you treat your clients with contempt (in this case the fans)? I doubt anyone would. Sean is right, the club needs to change from top to bottom. If that means removing Rodgers then so be it, but don’t tie the hands of the next manager coming with the same transfer ideology. It’ll be just a case of rinse and repeat..
Fair weather fans suck. A couple months ago yall were singing Rogers praises, but now the minute there’s failure… As in 6th place… You want to can his butt.
Terrible recognition of the facts by most of you anti Rogers fans. Please by all means tell me what manager ever could have come close to 6th, much less 4th, without a consistent striker for 90% of the season.
Who? Where?
It’s absurd especially when Rogers still made adjustments that worked for most of the second half of the season to propell them into a top 4 competition and without a striker for most of that stretch.
No other manager would do any better being stuck with Lovern and balotelli/lambert due to better options being injured.
All Liverpool needed this season in reality, was a consistent striker. With how well the main back 3 were playing and coutinho and Henderson ‘s great year (largely due to Rogers adjustments) that’s it. Be realistic when you judge the merits of your management. Don’t knee jerk because you fell to 6th after losing Sturridge, sakho and lucas again.
he’s had ample opportunities to fix that problem..
hes had 4 strikers all season which he signed, but doesnt trust them.
hes had two transfer widows since suarez left yet didnt try and fix problem.
Interesting viewpoint…
The all mighty fuck up of the run in since the Utd game has given rise to a multitude of issues at the club, in no specific order.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/form-guide.html
Our current form puts us just above Newcastle and just behind Utd, yeah just behind Utd!!
Even after the Arsenal defeat there was a decent shout at a top 4 spot and at no point over the last couple of months has there been any pressure applied to Utd. I bet they can’t believe their luck. That for me comes down to motivation or a lack of.
I’ll try to relay this point to Glen Johnson. the last few months of this season he’s been playing for a new contract, some very decent performances because he’s old enough to know he need a new contract next season and he’ll do a job for someone somewhere.
Up front we’ve got no goals in the side and that’s with the manager bombing out Borini & Lambert, not knowing how to get the best out of Balo.
With only a slightly improved performance in defence where in all honesty did BR think the goals were going to come from. And for me this is where Ego comes into play and it’s come home to roost for Rodgers. A total defiance not to play the strikers you have available for whatever reason has left us no clue how to score a goal. I watched Borini keep Sunderland up last year and with that in mind I can’t believe Rodgers never even thought about throwing him in.
Where Johnson was savvy enough to know he has to play for a new contract where were Lambert or Borini and the conversation of:
Look you don’t like me, I don’t fancy you. you need a new contract next year somewhere, the team need goals let’s at least give it a go. He could of played Sterling in to 10 role just behind.
My point being that there are players at the club who won’t be there next year. Instead of incentivising those players with the idea of a new contract elsewhere (and a bigger sell on fee for us) they’ve been left to rot. The squad that has played has been run into the ground and downed tools.
That is all down to BR and squad management & Reacting too slowly after getting found out after Utd and Arse.
This was Rodgers squad. He was more than happy with his signings pre-season. Turned out his squad was not competitive. Turns out he wasted money. Echoes of Reading. And yet there are still beauts out there giving him credit for coming second last season with the one man team that was Saurez. He ultimately failed last season too. He failed to win the league.
Rodgers should never have been hired. That error needs correcting.
*Shock horror, manager says he’s happy with signings – read all about it!*
**Bigger shock, young players struggling to adapt with no striker and having dips in form.**
Frankly we (the fans) got exactly what we deserved this year (and for the last few years). Anfield is like a library half the time and the other half the time the fans are slagging off our own players, abusing them or generally being about a supportive (novel concept that) as chocolate scaffolding in summer.
Look at the character some of our players have had to show to put up with the “Anfield faithful”, Lucas… Henderson anyone?
Until we stop being fans and start to support our team were going to find ourselves in this malaise.
Come second in the league, taking it down to the last day of the season – not good enough.
Two semi-finals in the cups come 6th (hit par pretty much) – not good enough, get rid.
Win the Champions league, get us close to winning the league, win the FA cup, League Cup and have us ranked as the number 1 club in Europe, then have a slightly off colour season when the owners are fleecing the club for every penny generating transfer window profits – not good enough, get rid.
See the pattern? Sometimes if the “support” did their bloody job and stop bitching about and repeating the latest crap being posted on twitter/BBC/Sky, we’d all be happier.