I START to write this under these two circumstances:
a) not knowing if Gibbo is writing one
b) in a taxi with Andy Heaton before the game
We’ve just come out of Mercado de San Miguel. Have you been? You certainly should if you are ever in Madrid. It’s a massive marketplace, full of food and wine – loads of different types of food and wine. It’s a terrific cornucopia. We were there for a yonk. Like six hours. In one place. We were eating all the wonderful food. Drinking all the wonderful wine. Talking all the wonderful shite. All of it. We’ll do it anyway.
Martin Fitzgerald is here in Madrid. He notes that he’s never seen collective organisation like it. You all manage each other constantly he says. You are all doing it. It must be exhausting, all the time, you are sorting each other out. Is it, he asks, a Liverpool thing? I sort of think it is. It’s what happens. Lads looking after lads. A sentence here, a sentence there. Endless interchangeable instruction on x or y. All is cool. All is easy. Everyone knows where they are and where they stand.
Bar one thing. I have no idea where I am staying. I got back last night at six. I left at noon. Who knows where my flat is.
I’d like to tell you news of the team spread. Not to us it didn’t. We drank daft pints, tons of wine, spoke to everybody in the world. A gang came the market. Kev Sampson is looking well, John Mackin’s lad is looking better. Walking at 6 3. Broad. Handsome. Splendid fayre all round. The wine is terrific.
The ground is imposing. I’ve been here before to see Real dispose of Barca 2-0 the night Riise scored that free kick against United. But to come as the opposition, it’s imposing; Robbo went and did the stadium tour. Said these are good you know. Said they are the business. Won loads. It is also far too security conscious. Ticket was checked three times before turnstile. Five checks. A body search. You know the drill and if you don’t you should. To be a football supporter.
Liverpool’s first half is decent. A little first gear from both sides. Liverpool’s team selection is hither and thither. But those you’d call reserves played well from the fourth tier. Lucas, Toure, Can, Borini. It’s hard to take it in. You are taking in the ground and the spectacle. It’s a remarkable place and ground. Like reading a book next to the Grand Canyon says Fitzgerald next to me. Liverpool’s shape looks good. Their goal looks quality. There are stints being put in all over the show. Liverpool’s reserves are gutsy lads but Markovic remains a concern. He remains the most post- of Liverpool’s post- lads. It is as though he won’t let his legs go. Won’t allow his play to go. He needs to relax. We bought him. We have paid that money. Be yourself, Lazar. It will be ok. Cut loose. These are your level.
They played Shiny Happy People at half time. Jesus. Thought it was Near Wild Heaven for a second. Imagine. Imagine that. They also played Money For Nothing by Dire Straits. It was brilliant through the massive sound system, utterly uplifting. They cut it off for Jump by Van Halen and the travelling Reds were all in.
First half Real Madrid were clearly the better side. Second Liverpool were marginally the better. Ramos’s slip looked exactly that. They threatened because they have quality. But Liverpool looked like themselves. Bold in possession, constantly looking to play. Not enough cutting edge though, that needs to improve however willing Borini is. That’s also a shape thing, not just personnel.
I’ve spoke to loads of Reds this week. Some are very concerned. Some are very patient. Some reckon Liverpool will come good this year, others worry understandably. This is a night where everyone can see what suits their point of view. It’s not straightforward at the moment around these parts. Liverpool need to be better in general, in particular there’s nothing wrong with result or performance tonight. Fundamentally I watch these Reds and think they are always one world star short. They need just one great player to make sense. Real Madrid had three and brought one more on from the bench. Any one of those players makes Liverpool look the business. Daniel Sturridge does that too but imagine one more on top. When you see Ancelotti’s riches you find yourself jealous. That said the travelling Reds sang more about Garcia than anyone else. Mercurial can take world class’s place. But then what happens next week?
We leave the place knowing Toure and Lucas can contribute to this season. That Allen can play at the highest level. That Liverpool have a strong squad, twenty lads who can go anywhere and not disgrace themselves. They’ve come here and done it, the best side in the world. But we also know that someone needs to set fire to the place. This is that time. Someone needs to set fire to the place. Knock round ours for the matches.
Probably the hardest I’ve found it to gauge my thoughts after that. The lack of expectation, the better than expected, the relief we weren’t humiliated. Positives from Toure particularly and Can. Truth is, I feel nothing but pleased the lads gave a good account.
Our solution is easier than people think. Go out and buy Berahino and another top striker (within realistic reach) even if it means breaking the bank (or the policy). Keep Mario. With Sturridge, Berahino and one more top striker. Then we challenge.
And Cabaye.
Varane eh? What a player.
3 world class players, Neil?
Thanks Neil, great to get an immediate response and reassuring to get the Mercado hinterland too!
Watching on TV they did look good and did themselves proud. Let you know there’s a real squad in the making.
Very pleased to hear Kevin Sampson is looking well as I’m bang in to his new detective and want nothing to come between him and part three.
Hope you found your flat, enjoy the trip and safe return!
“I watch these Reds and think they are always one world star short. They need just one great player to make sense. […] Daniel Sturridge does that too but imagine one more on top.”
We don’t need to imagine it, do we? We saw it last season.
For me, the biggest plus about this match (aside from the all-round improvement in approach) was Can’s emergence as the box-to-box midfielder we’ve been waiting for. With his combination of energy, ferocity and the occasional sweet pass, we might finally have the long-term replacement for Gerrard.
Certainly plenty of positives to take from tonight. Spot on about Toure and Lucas. Can looks a real player in the making. All of the young lads showed great promise in the most difficult of environments, even Markovic grew into the game after a nervous start, finally showed some glimpses of what we bought.
In the context of recent performances and negativity it wasn’t half bad, now let’s build on this.
I watched expecting to come away disheartened and was left with mostly positive feelings at full time. Can and Lucas looked good as a two, Toure continues to surprise and for the relative lack of Champs League experience the side didn’t look intimidated. The glaring problem of centre forward persists but overall very pleased. This display can only give the lads confidence ahead of Chelsea at the weekend.
As Jimmy Greaves used to say, football’s a funny old game. Six months ago, BR was the second coming of Shanks and now he’s the second coming of The Hodge. I’m speechless.
As for the crap that BR’s been subject to after tonight’s match, it’s always easy to be clever after the fact. Most of us were petrified about what Madrid would do to us on their own turf after easily tearing us apart at Anfield. I honestly worried about a cricket score. So, we show up with a much changed team and for the first time this season (if you ignore Spurs away) we looked solid(ish). If Rafa had done what BR did tonight, it would have been touted as a masterclass in tactical wizardry, but instead people are baying for blood. It’s insanity.
All is not well at our club. The signs suggest we’ve (again) wasted a load of money in the transfer market (where’s the Markovich that came on at Man City?). The shape of the team isn’t right and no one apart from Coutinho is playing well. Given all of that, can we not at least take some solace that we come away from Madrid having put in a decent performance and nullified their attack?
I’m not convinced we’ve wasted the money. @daviddownie made a very good point yesterday on ‘All in the Game’. A lot of us fans thought we’d done good business in the transfer window just prior to it closing. When you go through the list of players bought then it doesn’t make that bad a reading. For me, it’s more about the players we didn’t buy than the players we did. There are some positions we ignored and some we clearly didn’t do well enough in.
I wouldn’t worry about the stick for Rodgers. The Liverpool fans are so diverse you’ll always get bellends whatever the debate. They’re everywhere in life. After reading the comments on here the last few days and knowing how I think about things I’m starting to think everyone’s got an agenda of some kind about LFC. It can range from being ridiculously negative to ridiculously positive but actual ‘reasoning’ is in short supply.
well, first team player signings – Lovren, Balotelli, Lallana, definitely money wasted. That lot is NOT going to improve your 1st team,, and that’s what counts.
You can buy who you like for the squad, for youth/development/the future, but it’s the senior players that count. If you don’t get that right eg like our last 2 summers, then you go backwards.
QED!
Bit unfair on Lallana i think. We haven’t seen the full story yet regarding Lovren. Admittedly, he looks slow on the uptake.
Some decent shows all round, from the keeper, through the full backs, Kolo did great, though he’s as mad as a box of frogs, good in midfield with Can, Lucas and Allen, and a big mention for Borini, who showed what you can bring to the team as a front man if you run about a bit – note to Mario, it helps if you move!
Let’s not kid ourselves, Madrid are the business and were the better team by a fair stretch, but goes to show that there is a squad at Anfield, it can acquit itself admirably, and you don’t have to pick players who show no effort just because you spent £16m on them….
Kolo, Can, Allen and Borini should start on Saturday. Bet they won’t.
On a wildly optimistic note: didn’t Kolo’s dip coincided with his injuries last season? If we can keep him fit can he perform consistently? I don’t know, but he’s the only one of our defenders who looks like a leader. The Benzema/Ronaldo one-two in the 2nd half summed up our defending: let’s all chase the ball and leave the man. Witless stuff. Kolo was the exception.
Our best CB partnership last season was Agger and Kolo.
That was a TEAM performance because the “I” in the team that shouldn’t be there was on the bench.
Borini, for all his limitations must be a starter until be buy someone better.
Lucas – a super player. No matter what crap gets thrown at him, no mater how he’s been marginalised by Rodgers, no matter how Gerrard plays whether he has any effect or not, Lucas comes in, plays well and retains his dignity. Let’s hope he retains his place.
He’s in a conundrum. He’s a very good player but he can’t play alongside Gerrard – that much is clear but Gerrard rarely gets dropped. So chances are limted.
Never seems to have a middling game either. He’s either great or shite. I don’t think that helps his cause
Always love to see Lucas’ name on the sheet except when it is next to Gerrard’s. Reckon we are a much more fluent side with him in it than with Gerrard but you can’t drop Gerrard…
I reckon Lucas and Allen have a very good understanding, with Henderson less so but the three of them could control the game against most teams I reckon (as long as they had some fire power upfront to put the other team on the back foot)
I really admire Lucas:,all the shit he copped and still he persevered, playing a game that wasn’t natural to him. Won the fans over (almost unique, that) and then gets injured. Nobody ever seems to give him credit for all the covering he had to do between Gerrard and Johnson. He is still the only player we have who can actually defend.
Been saying it for ages but I’ll say it again, why arent we picking our one very good defensive midfielder rather than trying desperately to shoehorn a player(s) into that role with predictably ruinous results. At this point, sad as it is to say, I think Lucas needs to go somewhere else, go somewhere he is wanted and in 12-18 months all the ‘Lucas is dogshite’ naysayers will be on at the club asking why we sold him and look at how great he is.
Yes if he could stop constantly giving away stupid fouls in dangerous areas.
At some point in one’s life, one has to wonder if repeating the same shite over and over again is a sign of some cognitive malfunction.
It is (nearly) impossible to do the toe-poking and stand-up-tackling that Lucas does (or used to do so well) without picking up a foul or two in ‘dangerous areas’. The only one who came close to doing so was Lucas at his best right before his ACL injury.
Anyone who plays in his position, including yesterday Can, WILL commit some supposedly ‘silly’ fouls in ‘dangerous areas’. They operate in those ‘dangerous areas’. If some of our further forward players would defend/press better or commit a well-timed, but not obvious (no cards) foul much further up the pitch, the players who have to defend ‘there’ (where Lucas, Can, Skrtel, Moreno, etc operate) wouldn’t be liable to commit such allegedly ‘silly’ fouls.
You know who doesn’t commit fouls? Those who play matador defense.
Just loved the way Toure kept barging in between player and ball, a bulk of a performance.
[apart from the goal] but even Varane wouldn’t have cut that cross out.
Varane may have tried though.
That said Toure was sound. Even saw him shouting at Moreno second half, keeping him on his toes.
In a weird mood tonight. In some ways I could stomach the manager picking a team to win at Newcastle with the perma-reliable Allen and Henderson having their worst games for the club and Lovren trying his best to be a downgrade on a physically finished Dan Agger than picking a league cup team to not get battered by the world’s best (and to be fair, fuck me are they great – as defending champions go they’re well better than the Ronaldinho Barca team where Arbeloa kept Messi quiet. These eased to both wins without really stretching their legs).
Madrid sounds well better than here, Neil. Loads of people applauding damage limitation. Raise your game to not get embarrassed by the European champions after out-shitting a shit team at the weekend. In Rodger’s defence, if he’d have played an open game and got most probably leathered I’d be in the queue crying pragmatism. He can’t win the poor bastard; being Liverpool manager must be dead hard.
Not really feeling it anyway. Hope the second half of last season doesn’t become like 08/09 where we’re all here a few years from now wondering whether we’ll ever be fun/good again. I’ve got faith in this manager and the vast majority of these players but I’m gonna go and watch a load of Benayoun on YouTube with a face like a smacked arse on me anyway.
Also, was just thinking that beaut Mcmanaman doesn’t get half the shit he would/should get if it wasn’t for his accent. I think we should lay off easy target Owen for a bit and redress the balance.
Agreed Tom. You can trace back our comparative decline (and our rise as a ‘selling club’) to Bananaman ratting us out and spending virtually a year playing every week whilst desperately trying to avoid injury.
Owen deserves his pelters, but his departure never set the club back, nor altered perceptions of us in the wider football world like Macca’s.
On that note, it’s why I wouldn’t have Johnson playing. If he AND we don’t see his future at the club, he shouldn’t feature. Destablilises everything.
Yep, pretty pleased with tonight, which is why it feels a bit churlish of me to single out Allen for criticism. I certainly didn’t see things as Neil did. Allen put in a shift, for sure, but I lost count of how many spells of possession broke down at him. He’s far better without the ball than with it, but I’m not sure that’s enough for a top 4 side.
Everyone else did either okay or very well, with Can, Moreno, Lucas and Toure all staking claims for MoM. Credit to Mignolet, too, after some of the (justified) criticism he’s had recently.
Side for Saturday:
Mignolet
Johnson Skrtel Lovren Moreno
Gerrard Can Henderson Lallana
Sterling Ballotelli
Bearing in mind Lovren looks like he needs to take a break for a bit I’m amazed you wouldn’t start Toure on Saturday. It’s not good for morale when someone plays so well in a problem position and then gets dropped. Everyone’s talking about his performance but what I’m not hearing is people mentioning how well he marshalled the defence. The whole defence seemed more assured by his presence.
Leaving Toure out on Saturday hardly constitutes being “dropped” any more than omitting Markovic would be. They know they were in for the Real game and that alone, and although Toure played bloody well he hasn’t turned into Baresi overnight. It would also be a big ask given his lack of recent game time to have him play 2 games in 5 days against this calibre of opposition. He’s definitely earned his place on the bench, though.
Toure was MoM for us. If he’s not starting against the chavs, it’s a big “fuck you!” from Rodgers, especially if Lovren comes back in at his expense.
Unless of course Lovern comes in and has a man-of-the-match performance.
Ok, so we just revert back to the team that’s been so awful over the last half a dozen games and clearly isn’t working because we think it’s our strongest team.
Well I don’t think that approach is as stupid as you’re trying to make out. Don’t get me wrong, you can mke a case for Toure starting at either Skrtel or Lovren’s expense, but it’s one good game. It’s just as likely the Toure from Fulham would show up on Saturday as the Toure from Madrid. I do get that players need to believe that playing well will earn them additional first team chances, but that needs to be blanced against not discarding those players you believe are your best simply because things haven’t gone brilliantly for them in recent times. Or to put it another way, it’s case of weighing up current form against ability/potential. If your conclusion is that, despte his difficult start, Loveren is a better defender than Toure, I can fully understand why you’re going to pick him over the form guy for what is one of your biggest games of the season. It’s the same rationale that would lead me to pick Balotelli over Borini for Saturday even if I believed Borini was in better form. Ultimately, I think Balotelli is the better player and more likely to win you a game. I don’t think Borini at his absolute best would cause Chelsea enough problems. Obviously, things like combinations and balance come into the equation as well and it’s not*just* about ability, but ability is easily as important as how well player X played in his last game.
Moreoever, as I’ve said in here for weeks, I don’t lay even the majority of the blame for our league frailties at the door of the back four. Our defence is regularly exposed by what’s happening in front of them (and behind, on occasion) and I’m doubtful Toure would have fared any better in such circumstances. Three-quarters of our back four that started the season was brand new and they could have done with a little more proection than our tactics/shape and midfield have provided to date.
So no, it wouldn’t be absurd for Toure to get the nod over Lovren for Saturday, but equally I would be surprised if that did happen and wouldn’t go that route myself for the reasons above. And that’s before we get to the issue of fitness and the fact that Toure would be starting 2 massive games in 5 days after very little first team football.
Spot on, mate. Kolo should be starting. What sort of message would you be sending the squad if you dropped him after a performance like that? Likewise Can and Borini.
For now, this back four should stay as it is:
Manquillo looks way more reliable than Johnson and got forward pretty well tonight. Moreno was superb in the Bernabeu, constantly threatening and even catching up with Bale on a sprint going backwards, just in time. Toure is a leader more than Lovren is at the moment (nothing to say Lovren can’t become a leader in the future). Skrtel has been the most consistent of all our centre-backs over the past year, so he’s an auto-start.
(Is Sakho injured or has gone AWOL?)
Sakho is cropped.
Is he though Paul? I thought it was a 3 week injury after the Everton game. That was over 5 weeks ago. I hope it’s not a case of Rodgers ostracising him which I’m kind of expecting to happen when this mysterious injury is healed.
I think professional footballers who are members of squads the size of Liverpool’s when the club is still competing in 4 competitions are a bit more realistic, so I don’t think the “message” is as terrible as you’re claiming.
If the first choice gets injured for 3 or 4 games and the replacement comes in and puts in some barnstorming performances, then the argument to persist with your back-up is much stronger and the issue of ‘what message does it send to bring back your number one’ carries much more weight.
This was one game.
But what if the first choice has been shit for 3 or 4 games?
Have to agree with you, Allen had a poor game, he knew it too, showing his frustration after several loose passes. He can play better than he did today and has in the past, maddeningly inconsistent though. A lot of our players have the same problem
Forget Lovren, get Kolo in there. He looked like a man this morning that could take charge of that defence.
In spite of the loss, I thought that everyone involved came out of this with their reputation enhanced to some degree.
Mignolet has definitely regained form and confidence over the past few weeks, and his saves from Ronaldo et al were MoM-worthy. Also seemed to organise walls very wall, like Hadrian between the sticks.
Manquillo: solid, clever and measured attacking forays. Skrtel: consistently in the right place at the right time. Toure: superb. Moreno: electric while retaining positional discipline, and with no lapses in concentration.
Allen: probably the weakest performance of the XI, I thought, but still managed to look OK against Kroos, Modric and Isco, which is a feat in itself. Can: Gary McAllister has returned! Lallana: that Zidane-esque dragback-and-around-pivot thing he does is ingenious and useful, and he pressed well throughout. Markovic: a glimmer of something special. Lucas: resolute and reliable.
Borini: a 10 for effort, and he did put the ball in the back of the net…
Came away from last night feeling quite positive. Not many clear cut chances but that’s been our problem all season.
Kolo was a true leader last night and for me showed up what Lovren is lacking. I feel a bit for lovren, takes atleast a season to come in and be true leader at the back, B Rod should never have chucked him in straight away.
Special mention for Lallana (if he had pace he’d be devastating), Lucas, Can, Mignolet (if a bit punch-happy).
Allen though… after his two performances against RM I feel he can’t make that step up to the big guns. He looks out of his depth against quality opposition. Great squad player but shouldn’t be featuring in the Champions League for me.
Toure has to start instead of Lovren on Saturday – how could Brendan justify bringing Lovren back in?
Lucas should also start but probably has no chance of replacing Stevie.
Can also staked a claim for staying on in place of Allen or an off-form Hendo.
Borini deserves a run too but only as part of a front 2 – on his own he’s a bit toothless.
Competition eh? It might just force those left out last night to raise their games!
Neil’s piece is very kind to the manager. Perhaps the cleverest thing about Rodgers’ selection, however, is that he lowered our expectation to the point where a 1-0 loss at the Bernabeu was almost a blessed relief.
A loss is still a loss, however – and we’ll have to wait until Chelsea and subsequent European games to see if it was worth it.
My guess is that no money will be available for the January window. Any spending would have to be funded by sales. To try off-loading Balotelli would make us look even more stupid than we did when buying him to begin with, and Borini probably won’t get 14 mil as he may have in the Summer. If I were FSG I wouldn’t make any money available: and given our season to date we will be even less able to attract ‘stars’ .
I think FSG can see the bigger picture thankfully.
Thankfully I think you’re right! In Brendan we trust.
I know people like to be positive but I think Neil is now becoming a parody of himself.
To suggest we were better than Real Madrid in the second half, or that Joe Allen had a good game and belongs at the highest level, is genuinely amusing. A smile came crossed my face upon reading such views.
Let’s have some facts.
We played Real Madrid in a game we needed something out of. We rested 6 of our first 11. We lost. We never looked like not losing.
A lot of people were fuming with the team selection. I was one of them. Not because the manager punished Henderson, Sterling, Coutinho, Lovren, Gerrard and Balotelli for their shameful efforts on Saturday, their shocking efforts all season and their lack of anger/passion/reaction after every goal conceded and every match not won. No. I would have got behind that idea. I’d be with Brendan on that. But they were rested. Rodgers waived the white flag. Someone above suggests if Rafa had done it and only lost by one, it would have hailed as a tactical masterclass. That’s a load of shit. Rafa never sent a team out to just not get hammered, whether it was at the Bernabeu, Nor Camp, San Siro, Stamford Bridge or wherever. He never put 11 players on the field at the mercy of the opposition and hope for the best.
After the match a lot of people were happy we only got beat 1-0. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t fear a hammering. But that didn’t mean I was happy we “only lost 1-0.” And let’s be honest here – we only avoided a 5-0 6-0 slapping because Madrid knew a point was enough to qualify and played the game at half pace. The complacency that run through their team was evident. It reminded me of watching them play at home to a second tier team in the second leg of a Copa Del Rey quarter final, after winning the first leg 4-0.
We surrendered. Before a ball was kicked we admitted we weren’t up to it. And Madrid, graciously, decided to accept it without inflicting even more damage to our confidence.
What the fuck happened to us!? What happened to Liverpool Football Club, European Giant? Where was the LFC war machine that we have been decade after decade? Even with limited sides we have put out, we at least tried. We’d organise and put in a shift, not to mention the odd tackle and offer a threat to their goalkeeper. With our first team. There was an article on here about the time Benitez’s Valencia outclassed us 2-0 and 1-0 in 2002. They were on a different level. But we fucking tried with our best players. We never lay down.
We qualify for this competition to give up when we’re drawn against a really good team, is that it? What is the point then? Rest players in the Champions League so we can do better in the league and qualify for the next Champions League? What message does that send out to potential recruits in January? Or next Summer? Especially to the top class ones we obviously need?
The fact so many of us are ok with this result and performance tells you a lot about our fall in the last 6 months. Rodgers is going from Shanks to Hodgson. I see people are now calling him Rodgson, due to the bullshit he’s coming out with in his post match interviews (outstanding at home to Hull, 0-0, controlled game at Newcastle, lost 1-0 etc) and his lowering of expectations. He’s gone from saying “we will challenge on all fronts” in June to “we are in transition” in October.
Last night was an affront to our European past. There is no shame is trying your best and losing. But to not even turn up for the fight was vile. And for what? So we can lose 1-0 to Chelsea instead of 3-0?
Mignolet had a good game. As did Toure. He made Lovren look worse and worse with every passing minute. Lallana done well too but even when he does well he doesn’t do enough for £25m – his limited athleticism holds him and us back. Our best player was Lucas though. Outstanding. Amazing what he can do when he doesn’t have the captain to babysit. Yet Rodgers has and will continue to treat him like shit.
Emre Can was fine but looked shattered at certain points in the game and isn’t that mobile/sharp. Can run well in straight lines but not when the ball and opposition players are in and about him. Borini tried hard as always but doesn’t have the quality. Moreno done a few good things and a few bad things – is sometimes be sloppy with the ball. Apart from disgracefully giving ball to Benzema early, Skrtel was ok.
It’s painful watching Markovic play football. I thought he was meant to be quick, like Olympic sprinter Theo Walcott quick? Not seen it once. His pace looks slightly above average, nothing more. His confidence couldn’t be much lower. A lesser Stewart Downing at the minute. Tough test of character for him but if he pulls through and doesnt ask to leave in the Summer I still think there’s a player in there. Had one great run in second half. Allen followed up his horror Newcastle effort with another poor game. He doesn’t often lose possession because he’s usually so safe but playing more advanced last night saw him lose the ball and misplace plenty of passes. He knew it too. His frustration was etched on his face. Manquillo is solid enough defensively but was the main reason for the goal conceded. Offers little going forward. Crosses constantly, usually to the keeper. Then the one time last night he should have crossed to Borini alone at the back post he tried to take on Marcelo and lost the ball. He is young, he will improve but he reminds me of a more technical young Carra. Someone who grew up playing centre back and has moved to full back as he’s hit senior football. You can see the difference in comfort level between him and Moreno for example.
PS: Playing Money For Nothing at half time was Madrid’s very astute assessment of our Summer activity.
We are no longer a European giant! We are no longer a top team in Europe! We are no longer the team from 8-10yrs ago! The quicker we acknowledge that the quicker we move forward!
Playing our so called best team AT HOME resulted in a 3-0 defeat which could easily have been more if Real hadn’t have taken the foot of the pedal. The chances of of us taking anything from this game was always gonna be slim. This week we already have been beaten by Newc, we’ve saved some face by only being beat 1-0 by Real and now we have several players with fresh legs with something to prove when we take on Chelsea this Sat which I believe we can get something out off.
We need to look at the bigger picture here. If we don’t make CL next year again we fall further behind the likes of Chelsea and City while there’s a great chance Utd will take our CL spot and continue their resurgence. If we don’t make CL we can’t attract the top players. It was difficult enough in the summer because it was our first time back in after a few years but if we can prove we are back in the CL to stay then those players will think twice about joining another club. If we don’t make CL next year then we miss out on the massive increase in money that’s going into the comp starting 15/16 therefore another team (probably Utd) will take advantage of this.
The only way we are likely to make CL next season is by picking up league points and getting into the top 4.
We cannot do this by trying to beat Real in Madrid with, frankly, a stuttering team we can however do this by taking points off Chelsea at Anfield. To put it bluntly our main priority this season should be the league and specifically finishing top 4!
If we got to the CL semi finals but finish 5th in the league this year it will be a disaster for our future. As it stands our CL progression for this season is still in our hands against a lot lesser opposition than Real!!
As it happens the players that started this match had the extra motivation to prove themselves. No ones gonna tell me Balotelli is obviously our first choice striker at the min. For what reason. Zero league goals?! Same for Johnson. Same for Lovren. Gerrard, Sterling and Henderson have hardly been hitting top grade either.
Now we go to face Chelsea with a lot of fresh legs, players with something to prove and perhaps a bit of confidence after last nights performance (even if it was a loss). Meanwhile THEY have to travel back from Maribor tonight and then travel to Anfield on Fri/Sat after many of their guys having played. I’ve no qualms about admitting they are the better team at the min but we’ve given ourselves a good advantage when we play them on Sat.
All of this.
Someone said to me today that you never know what might have happened if we’d played our (notional) first eleven. I told him that we do know, becuase it happened a fortnight ago and we were at the wrong end of the most comprehensive 0-3 defeat I’ve ever seen. At home.
The reality is that even a draw last night would have left us needing 2 wins from the last two games. so unless people genuinely believe we could have beaten the world’s best team in their own back yard whilst they are operating at the peak of their prowess, then we had infinitely more to lose by fielding a full strength team than we had to win.
One other thing: I’m a big fan of Benitez and didn’t like the way his exit was handled at all, but he was hardly averse to making the odd change in personnel himself. Not always 6 and 7 changes, granted, but I do remember a run of 50 games or so in which we failed to field an unchanged side, and at least some of those changes were borne of pragmatism.
I agree that 4th spot must be our top priority this season!
What would you have said if Madrid had beat us 8-0 like they could have done had they chose to? What will you say if/when Chelsea beat us with the similar ease in which Madrid beat us last night? Maybe Brendan should surrender and rest his players this weekend for a more winnable league game, like away to Palace, as we have little chance of beating Chelsea?
I get the reasoning behind that selection last night, although Brendan trying to turn it round after we avoided humiliation in his mind (it is humiliating in itself to tell the world with your team sheet you think you have no chance of a result, even with your best 11) and hinting that he never rested anyone. That he simply picked a team he thought was his best chance of getting a result. Thats the type of bullshit we shouldnt take. He’s literally insulting our intelligence with that guff.
But I disagree with the reasoning – we spent £120m in the Summer to have a squad strong enough to compete on four fronts, they are not my words, they are Rodgers’ – and I disagree with the selection due to the message it sends out to potential players and the slap in the face it was to both supporters and the greatest club competition in the world. What player out there saw our team and thought yep, there’s a club I want to go to? Thats the attitude I like?
And yes we are a European Giant. That’s about more than the quality of the first team. It’s about the name and history of the club. Its about a proud tradition. By throwing in the towel before the first bell last night, Rodgers insults our history and great men like Shankly, Paisley and Fagan.
We had more of a chance of a win last night than we did winning the competition in 2004/05. Our first team now is a lot better than it was then. Never seen Benitez put out a second string when a group was still alive, regardless of who were playing.
I agree with the notion that we need to be aware of where we stand in the modern game. We need to know that we aren’t the dominant force at home and abroad we used to be. We need to realise a lot of correct decisions need to be made and a lot of hard work along with some luck needs to go our way before we get back to where we want to be.
BUT that is not to say we disregard ambition and passion and a hatred of losing! Attitude! We are Liverpool Football Club. We are not Wolverhamption Wanderers going to Fergie’s Utd under Mick McCarthy! Yet some of our fans think thats who we are, that that is what we deserve! “Sorry lads, you arent good enough to compete with these other lads so have a sit down. In fact spend an extra night here.” Well I say no!
Did you hear the abuse Arsenal got last night at full time? And that was because they were inept, not because they had a lack of passion which is far fucking worse. And they’ve more or less already qualified! Yet our lads and manager have not had anything like that abuse. Played 16. Won 6. Lost 7. Drawn 3. From a team who came 2nd and spent £117m. Even with the loss of Suarez and injury prone Sturridge, that is fucking pathetic. And its down to a lot of lads going through the motions. Not being hurt at conceding. Not being hurt at losing. Not feeling disgusted for playing like shit. Not displaying anything like the passion required, which should be a bare minimum. Not putting a foot in. We hardly tackle anymore. I said a few weeks back Brendan is turning us in to Arsenal Lite and that’s exactly whats happening. We are gutless.
And it all comes from the manager.
I still won’t call for him to be sacked, but he needs to change. We players need to change. Starting with his/their attitude.
Maybe he dropped them as punishment for poor performances but couldn’t say that.
if you believe even half of what you’ve written here, then it’s a complete mystery why you wouldn’t want Rodgers sacked. I mean, how bad does it have to get, Chris?
Look, we’re all entitled to our opinions, but I’m afraid some of this is very confused. You’re making crzybob appear lucid. One the one hand, you’re correctly citing the fact that Rodgers spent most of the cash this summer needfully beefing up a thin squad that stood a chance of competing on four fronts, but in the next breath you’re condemning him for making full use of that squad in the midst of run of 7 games in 21 days against some of the toughest opposition we’ll face all year. We had a game on Tuesday that’s part of a 6 game mini competition and the only objective is qualification from the group. There are no bonuses for plucky losses and even a draw at Madrid would not have altered our ultimate destiny in the CL; that will be settled by the final two games and that was always likely to be the case whatever team we fielded on Tuesday.
You ask what would have happened had we lost by 8. I suggest that chances of that happening were pretty much the same whatever team we fielded (see above where you’re pretty clear that you haven’t been impressed by our first team this season). The benefit of losing 8-0 with a second-string, however, is that you don’t send the same exhausted team out against Chelsea a few days ater having had their arses handed to them by Real with confidence flat on the floor. Rodgers wasn’t so much resting players as protecting them.
Additionally, you appear to be furious that Rodgers played squad players (some the product of that £120m outlay you’ve already mentioned) instead of the “fucking pathetic” first team. You know, the bunch that have been “going through the motions”, who appear no to give a shit when they lose and who are displaying no passion? That lot. For fuck sake, how bad does it have to get, Chris, before Rodgers is allowed to make use of that beefed up squad he’s spent all that money on? To read some of the commentary post-Madrid you’d think he ditched the class of ’88 in favour of the class of ’93.
You don’t like Rodgers. I get it. I don’t doubt you love our club and only want to see us be successful, but this glass one billionth full schtick is starting to wear thin.
I’m mad at Rodgers because I have a brilliant fantacy football team & he didn’t buy the players that I wanted over the summer & doesn’t play the players that I want.
What would you have said if we had snatched a draw because a hungry team had been put out with a point to prove their manager and fans?? What will you say if/when we beat Chelsea at Anfield because we have a lot of players with fresh legs, players with a point to prove after being left out on Tue or because they put in a good performance and want to do it again??
If you want to get into the £120mil spend in the summer and yet we don’t have one stand out player for all that money I would be happy to because I have massive problems with that and with the transfer committee but that’s for another thread. I’m talking about the here and now. The liklihood of us getting anything at Madrid even with our “first” team was always slim. The CL is our second priority, the league is our first. We have now given ourselves a better chance of gaining something in the league this weekend by the decisions taken on Tue night.
It was a practical decision that was taken not an emotional one.
@Michael – “If we don’t make CL next year again we fall further behind the likes of Chelsea and City while there’s a great chance Utd will take our CL spot and continue their resurgence. If we don’t make CL we can’t attract the top players. It was difficult enough in the summer because it was our first time back in after a few years but if we can prove we are back in the CL to stay then those players will think twice about joining another club. If we don’t make CL next year then we miss out on the massive increase in money that’s going into the comp starting 15/16 therefore another team (probably Utd) will take advantage of this.”
I understand what your saying but shewerly this is a slippery slope to be on?. Lets throw games in this seasons CL to maybe help towards qualifying for next seasons. What about next years CL? what if the manager decides again to throw some more games to help qualify for the year after??. That is not progress and that is shewerly not what we want our club to be about??
I explained in my initial post the difficulty of attracting the right quality of player in order to help us progress. That can only be done by consistently being in the CL. When we are able to attract the appropriate quality of player then when we won’t have to take the difficult decision of “resting” players for certain matches.
Anyway, has Balotelli been THAT much better than Borini? Has Lovren been THAT much better than Kolo?? Has Johnson been THAT much better than Manquillo??
What about Chelsea last night?? “Resting” Costa, Oscar etc and then only come away with a draw in a match they are expected to win. They surely had an eye on the match against us.
We do what’s right for Liverpool at any given time and fcuk everyone else and there faux outrage!
I’d say you are becoming the parody.
Any team without a fit, in form striker is going to struggle. Balotelli has backfired (although I have been seeing little promising signs, like when he got stuck in and won the ball back before being scythed down on Sunday) and we should have bought another striker regardless of whether we could ship borini or not. Some of that will be Brendan’s fault, some the transfer committee and some bad luck and circumstance.
We are probably going to have to limp along until Christmas before sturridge gets back to fitness and we can buy another backup (or preferably front line) with pace and trickery, then we should be okay when Origi comes next summer.
We were a 3rd seed in the draw. Madrid are the champions and have been in the semi-final for the last 4 years running. I think 0-3 and 0-1 illustrate the gap between our teams (not clubs) at the moment. That’s not defeatism or “an affront to our European past”, that’s just the reality. If you want to go blame someone for that, blame Hicks, Gillett, Purslow and Hodgson.
Oh, and on Saturday, if Lovren starts and Lucas doesn’t it will say an awful lot about Brendan Rodgers. More than any of his most ardent critics ever could.
Lucas was excellent last night, brings much more balance to the team. It was noticeable how even opposition with the best ‘cutting in’ widemen in the world were struggling to fashion chances through the middle.
One thing we haven’t tried is Lucas sitting with Gerrard further forward (which we last tried in 2009, Lucas playing in the OT and Madrid victories). This gives us Henderson’s energy, rather than tethering him to a point so deep on the pitch he can’t contribute.
Borini then plays as a poor man’s Torres, (or more likely, as an equal of Baros during our 2005 Big Ears win).
Should have gone to specsavers Glasses for them…….. glasses. What game were you watching?
And Madrid is a shit hole. I swear if I wasn’t scouse I would have been pick pocketed several times.
As for Allen. A good sub, but mediocre at best. But they were shit scared of Sterling and Coutinho! Points dropped there.
I thought Liverpool acquitted themselves well. I think Brendan Rodgers is a good young manager who will become great. I hope he gets the chance to become great at Liverpool F.C.!?!?
Same here John,
With a fit Studge & another top tier front man we would be a different animal,
Great to see some of the squad members making a good case to be regulars,
The press were making out we threw the game (before it was even played no less) just because the usual “big” name players did not start,
Considering how the the supposed first team performed against Newcastle that was a strange way to look at it,
If anything I’m now questioning how he picked that starting line up last Saturday,
So until we get more goals into the team we need to be more pragmatic,
Lucas, Manquillo & Kolo need to be getting more game time.
I’ve only once been to the Bernabau and that was nearly 40 years ago. I can’t remember who they were playing but it didn’t really matter as I was at the highest part of the terrace and the players were like ants (they could well have been) There was no atmosphere and it was probably the most boring football match I have ever seen. It was probably Madrid reserves come to think of it.