FOLLOWING Jürgen Klopp’s suggestions that Bill Shankly would understand the merits of a fourth-placed finish for modern-day Liverpool FC, Gareth Roberts asks a panel of Reds what constitutes success for the club in 2018.
Melissa Reddy, Andy Heaton, Ben Johnson and Dan Austin debate the difficulties for Klopp and Liverpool, what’s been right and wrong in the past, and supporters’ reactions to that, and where sights should be set for the rest of the season and beyond
Our cleaners are definitely better than Man City’s. I don’t care what Anyone says! :)
Ultimately success is measured by trophies.
All the other things are nice too; youth development, fan engagement blah blah blah.
Songs arnt made up and then sang over decades about a new stand being built. They’re sang about Cup and league wins.
You don’t argue with other sets of fans about all that other stuff, ya argue about who’s won what. So it’s just really clouding the issue.
We’ve won 2 trophies since we last won the European Cup. We’ve been barely visible in Europe’s top comp this last decade. That’s simply not good enough. It’s poor despite spending 100s of millions.
It simply cannot continue. This constant obsession about planning for the future to often simply writes off the present, very much like what’s went on this season.
You’s gave me a bit of hope when at the end you were asked if CL qualification alone equals success and most of you said no. More of the fan base needs to embrace this mentality. Only in the last coupla weeks I’ve had fans say to me that we’re having a good season. I had to point out to them that we havnt been closing to winning a single trophy this year.
Jan just killed me this season and I’m getting the impression it’s done the same to others. Selling your best player then not replacing just weakens the squad mid season and sends out the msg that they don’t care about winning anything this season, it’s all just about saving a bit of money to spend in the future. Then came the FA cup defeat and that represented our last real chance of winning some silverware.
Neil always says something along the lines of every decision we make should made with the thought if this will help us win the league. I agree with that but I’d expand to winning silverware.
There’s something very unassertive, nearly submissive, about the way some treat Shankly’s words. It’s the very opposite of what I associate with Liverpool. He’s the club’s greatest figure, but he wasn’t a guru who’s every utterance needs to be treated like gospel. Klopp opened himself to criticism by daring to use Shankly’s name after being asked about him – oi vey!
This season’s success will (for me) be defined as a Top 3 finish and a semi final UCL appearance. That would show improvement from last year in the table and legit contenders across Europeans highest stage. Next season, a trophy must be delivered.
Success for Liverpool’s owners will be a good return and more on their investment when they eventually sell us on.
Success for Liverpool’s fans will be measured in silverware, which is helped by recruiting the best possible players available which in the present climate will mean spending with fees and wages matching that of the richest clubs.
I know which form of success I’d want but FSG won’t like it.
Spending can only match the richest clubs if revenue matches them. To spend like a rich club you have to be a rich club.
The good news is Liverpool are becoming richer and it is now only City and United domestically who have significantly more resources. The key to narrowing the gap on those clubs is consistent top 4 and Champions League.
Did anyone think Liverpool didn’t have a chance of winning the league at the start of the season. No. Ok, we always think that but that last 2 seasons we’ve had realistic aspirations and we will again next season. Liverpool have improved. We’ve been shite for years apart from the odd season. We’ve been miles from the top 4. We still need to grow so that we’re continuously in with a shout of winning the league. We’re getting there but if we want to see us not get there then it’s simple. Miss out on the top 4. I can’t for all these bullshit comparisons. We’re not Arsenal. Utd might have missed out on the CL but they’re Utd. They’re a huge club in terms of recent success. We’re not. We are a huge club but we’ve been shit. We have to keep getting top 4.
I didn’t really get the debate last week. We put strong teams out v Everton and West Brom. We were clear favourites to win both those matches. We just didn’t. There was no sacrifice of the cup. It’s not that Liverpool exist to win trophies, we exist to be the best. Simple. If the question was top 4 this season followed by the rewards our constant progression will without doubt and not win the FA cup versus win the FA cup and then win nothing for another 10 years because we’re out the CL places v finishing in the top 4. Then either way I’d choose top 4. I’m sick of us being wank and no League Cup is gonna make me feel like a king. Only winning the big ones does that.
My word counts for nothing but I said on one of Rob’s shows at the start of the season that top 4 and getting out the group has to be conceived as a successful season. Not a success as in lets go to town and get an open top parade but a success in terms of ‘growing’. Last season we got top 4 with no European football. Add the CL games and top 4 becomes more difficult. Your squad needs to be stronger. If we achieve it then I’m ok. We’ve not regressed like we normally do every 3 years or so. We’ve closed the gap on the top 4 down to nothing and that includes City. We’re now one of the 4 that can realistically win the league. We weren’t in 2012 when we got our ‘trophy’. We were miles away with hindsight. Forget the rest. We’re going forward 10 times more than Arsenal. Much more than Spurs, More than Utd when you look at the last 3 seasons compared to the recent past. More than Chelsea when you consider their ups and downs. If we don’t get that top 4 though and become a team who can beat West Ham on a Saturday and give as good as we get v Milan on the Wednesday then we’re wasting our time. We’ll get there – but we need top 4, not the league cup. It’s no coincidence that both the FA Cup and League cup has been won by one of the top 4 in 80% of them over the past decade. To be the best you first have to consolidate top 4, then grow.
This Dan Austin must have been some player who did he play for? Wee bit more respect for lads that have made Liverpools bench in their career would not go a miss
people who say finishing 4th wouldnt be a success are treating seasons like seperate entities i feel. consolidating our place as a champions league club for the first time in a decade while balancing the extra european football demands is progress, no?
It’s progress towards success.
It’s a step taken in order to help achieve success.
It isn’t success in of itself.
Based on financial strength Top 4 is punching above weight as are Spurs. Shouldn’t be taken for granted at all. Dalglish won something but had a season with 51 points which is staggeringly low. Not a criticism of Dalglish but an observation that getting around 76 points (last season and on target for again this season) is a very good. Not title winning but not to be underestimated as there have been plenty of seasons in the low 60s or worse.
And top 4 gives us a shot at a trophy which is part of Anfield’s DNA.