I’M a big fan of rotation.
It’s a causation of the modern game but as Rafa Benitez will testify sorely, an approach you need to get right or face your critics.
Benitez was pilloried for resting his key players occasionally. To do so at the time was a relatively new idea; one held up against the anachronistic “play your best team” ideology. Under Rafa, Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard were sometimes left out. Often it worked and Liverpool would take three points and simultaneously rest those aching, highly-tuned football muscle fibres.
On other occasions when he got it wrong and The Reds dropped points against weaker opposition, Benitez courted justified complaint.
What the current Newcastle United manager never did was bench his best players for the biggest games — the derbies, the Manchester United spats, those knife-edged, two-legged European affairs. If Rafa had “an idea”, it was that his lesser lights were still capable of despatching the dross of the Premier League.
To some it was anathema, to others it was a clever policy allowing his squad to endure and compete for the biggest prizes. History dictates he got it right more frequently than not.
With the demons of last January in mind, when The Reds appeared to run out of steam after a barnstorming pre-Christmas run, this season Jürgen Klopp has embraced the notion of utilising the full array of talent at his disposal. He has begun resting key players a la Rafa.
On the face of it, he has enjoyed some success switching around his starting 11. Liverpool FC has qualified for the Champions League round of 16, and his team remains unbeaten since the Wembley calamity against Tottenham Hotspur in late October.
However, and I sense I’m in a minority for saying it, over the last few weeks, Klopp has got it badly wrong. No one is questioning the approach but I have to query the complex machinery inside his rotary watch.
Let’s rewind a bit. Let’s go back to beautiful Seville. Just before our return encounter with our current Spanish nemesis, Maribor steal a point in Moscow. A full-strength Liverpool lineup needs a win to secure qualification a game ahead of schedule.
We slaughter Sevilla in the first half hour – inspired by the “Fab Four”; Phil Coutinho, Mo Salah and goalscorers Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino — but then lose a three-goal lead. But, the outcome was more painful than catastrophic, with a sole point required at Anfield against Spartak to seal a Euro deal.
The following Saturday, against a bitter foe, Chelsea – a top four race rival — in a crucial league encounter, Firmino and Mane were left on the bench. The Brazilian remained rooted to his cushioned seat and Mane only surfaced on 89 minutes, after an 85th minute Willian equaliser finally decorated a second-half Blues’ onslaught.
It was like the Alamo at times but with no sign of a Red cavalry. Two vital points were dropped using a lineup that also included a pale imitation of last season’s James Milner and an ineffective, now permanently-hamstrung Daniel Sturridge.
Some vindication came for Klopp in the subsequent, facile despatching of Stoke City and Brighton on the travels that followed with Mane, Salah and Firmino to the fore. Play your best players and you play your best football. Surprise, surprise.
That said, Salah comes off the bench to clinch the Potteries win and Coutinho stays on the sidelines completely. Still, job done and some rest given to Phil and Mo. Well in Jürgs, legs protected for the big games coming up – when you need to pick your best team — amid an admittedly hectic schedule.
It is worth pointing out that this glut of fixtures is a sufferance for all Premier League teams in Europe. We’re not alone. Some of the other Prem lads are also in League Cup action in midweek; something we don’t have to concern ourselves with.
This is winter. This is England. Through the wind and rain? No mid-season break here, lads. Ich bin nicht ein Berliner.
At Brighton a fortnight ago, Sadio gets a rest but Salah runs amok and Firmino bags a brace. Job done again and we can afford to go strong against Spartak. The “Fab Four” start and the Ruskies are Put-in their place (sorry for the Kremlin-esque pun — blame my dad). After 19 minutes the scoreboard reads “Liverpool 3 Spartak Moscow 0”. These Eastern Europeans aren’t crack, they’re just fucking crap.
This is ideal with the derby ahead in four day’s time. Ease up lads, save yer legs. Come off at half time and let’s give the likes of Dom Solanke and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain some valuable minutes.
But no…
Both young bucks have their honed and toned little arses screwed to the subs’ bench, while Firmino puts in a further shift up to 71 unnecessary minutes and Salah and Mane do the full 90. Absolute madness! What would the sports scientists say about that?
Ah, “Fuck it” we say — there’s more to footie than the stats guys. “It’s what Klopp wants…” Klopp’s fans insist and those seven goals… Wow! Seven bloody nil – again. The lads in Red are now playing with Klopp’s fabled “rhythm”. Liverpool have momentum going into the derby.
And, then it goes awry in unfathomable circumstances.
The team for Everton comes out while we’re having a pint in town’s Lion Tavern. No Firmino, no Coutinho. Solanke – without a goal in senior football – starts. We’re aghast. Texts fly off. “Seen the fucking team?”
Aside from wiping out our taste of Brazil, the English yeoman, Milner starts ahead of big-match, Anfield specialist Gini Wijnaldum. The Ox (I can’t be arsed typing his full name again) also gets in; preferred to Emre Can who for all his faults loves a scrap – something in keeping with the flavour of the Merseyside family feud.
We struggle to make chances. It’s as if we’ve lost our rhythm. Six changes from the 11 that sauntered past Moscow in quarter of an hour. Who knew?
On half time, Salah curls in another worldie and suddenly all is right in a snowy Anfield world. Then, Mane – perhaps out of sync with some of his new colleagues – fails to square when clean through, but we go in one up.
We’re nervous. We need a second to clinch it. That’s sound. We have Phil and Bob, hitherto unoccupied save for building Linda Pizutti a snowman sat on the bench. Firmino appears on 67 as Liverpool vainly press for another goal. Thank Christ for that. But, who’s going off? That’s right the league’s leading scorer. Mo, Mo – off you go!
This all looks a bit shit when Dejan “name me five better in the world” Lovren fondles Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Wayne Rooney converts from the spot. My plans to chorus “He’s gone bald five times; he’s gone bald five times — for Man United, he’s gone bald five times,” chant is now stuck in my throat as Everton equalise.
So, 1-1 with 13 to go. Better get fucking Coutinho on. Too late The Blues are now resolute; emboldened from the start by our selection, boosted further by Salah’s stupid withdrawal and now bouncing round the Annie Road End with their cocks out; their fans doing likewise.
We’re deflated. We’re angry. We’re downright disappointed. The worst, most agricultural Everton side in living memory – up against some pretty stiff competition – has garnered an away point and robbed us of two. A share of the bragging rights, if not a share of the city’s best trabs. The bitter fucking pricks.
So, the Baggies are in town Wednesday. Kloppologists opine in their sanctimonious tone, “Well, with those rested legs, a couple wins over West Brom and Bournemouth will vindicate the derby lineup.”
What followed was a match and performance devoid of guile; a Liverpool of lost momentum, crashing against the buffers of missing creativity and lost confidence. A goalless stalemate; an increasingly desperate, anxious crowd still mindful of the derby travesty and hushed boos at the final whistle.
Four lost points down to our own making. A blip brought on ourselves. A selection over two games completely the wrong way round and compounded by poor substitutions.
Fuck rotation?
No. But you need to get it right as old Rafa will testify.
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The only thing about the Moscow game was Moreno went off at half time and Lovren felt a muscle twinge.
That only leaves one lad to change in the front line.
So “Firmino puts in a further shift up to 71 unnecessary minutes and Salah and Mane do the full 90” comes with a bit of context I think.
Beat me to it :-).
Interesting article but I think that Mike is too quick to blame Klopp and too easy on the players themselves. The team put out against Everton was clearly good enough to win the game and, indeed, should have done well before the penalty incident. Similarly, the team against WBA should have dispatched them with ease and is, for the most part, the team that played against Moscow just a week before, so it’s not really fair to say that they lost momentum.
I generally think that Klopp is a little slow with his subs but some of the incidents Mike mentions are devoid of context. First, in the Spartak game, Moreno goes off injured just before half time and the substitution of Lovren, part way through the second half, was designed to protect him ahead of the derby (great choice in hindsight!) given the fact he was just returning from injury and finds it difficult to play three games in a week (Brighton, Spartak, Everton). It’s not just forwards who need rotating to save from injuries. This meant that only one sub was really available to him for rotation purposes. That said, it’s a bit odd that Firmino was sacrificed only not to play in the derby.
Against Everton, Klopp has said tha Salah was substituted because there was a danger of injury. You can believe that or not but if we take the manager at his word then it’s not unreasonable to see Salah go off and be replaced by Firmino. Personally, I’d have liked Coutinho on earlier for Solanke to try to finish the game off but one can understand why, given how terrible Everton, were, Klopp decided to delay.
It’s a cliche to say that we won’t know how well Klopp has worked rotation this season until we’re in the Spring or even at the end of the season but it doesn’t make it less true and that makes Mike’s judgements a little premature in my much less expert opinion!
What does ‘getting it right’ actually mean here? Would Jurgen have got the rotation right if we won both the Everton and West Brom games, as the performances – albeit not up to our top standards – merited? This reads mostly as a product of outcome bias. The process was the right one, but we didn’t end up with the outcome we all wanted. My main takeaway from the last week if that we need to seriously improve on the talent levels in our centre midfield. Rafa can certainly testify to that.
Reads too much like a tantrum by someone whose mate Rafa was treated badly and thinks the way to correct that is to treat Klopp just as badly. Unfortunately cherry-picking facts and ignoring information that has come to light both during and after those matches don’t help your case either, but make the case for those you so condescendingly call “sanctimonious Kloppologists”. Disappointing because there is merit in what you’re saying, just as there is merit in what those “Kloppologists” say as well. Not sure why you’re trying so hard to paint yourself as apart from them Mike.
it’s like brexiteers v remoaners arguing – none of it makes any sense. It seems we have part of a fanbase who think loads of our lot find anything to moan about, always something to moan about. If you are in that lot who think this you tend to be classed as some kind of fucking Klopp apologist.
If you think there are too many who support Klopp blindly then when you comment on something that may or may not be an issue you’re simply putting over a point of view and getting hounded by the Klopp lot.
Its all a bit fucking sad really.
We’re 4 months into the season and it started off with players:
Moreno
Lovren
The GK
then moved to leadership (or lack of) and so Henderson was in the firing line
Then rotation hits the headlines, followed quickly by the timing of the subs (funnily only really raised if we drop points, as if 5 more minutes of Oxlade Chamberlain was some golden ticket to 3 points).
Now it seems the striker situation is stirring, to be closely followed by Van Dijk joins City – oh, and the likely lack of interesting transfers in Jan.
We are a mad and wierd bunch – but keep on fighting lads, as its what we do better than anyone else.
To be fair most of what I’ve seen in the comments on here is people having a chat and sharing different points of view, which makes the tone of Mike’s article all the more perplexing. I can’t help but read that he’ll only be happy when we treat Klopp like Rafa was treated, and I’m not sure what good that will do.
How patronising?!
“as if 5 more minutes of Oxlade Chamberlain was some golden ticket to 3 points)”
Wow, this coming from you KM? There was a time when even a few minutes left was enough to have a sub go in to win a match. That’s the hope. But yes Klopp’s timing depending on the momentum of the game, seems to be off, and often times has puzzled (me at least) as who comes on/off, though in his defense, he and his staff on the sidelines are privy to more info.
Regarding the three players you mentioned have somewhat improved, but they always seem to be pressured or at risk, in Klopp’s approach of play, which is usually holding a high line. All three players have also demonstrated they are not in the same league as Klopp’s Dortmund players he transformed into great players. I think those players already had enough in them to reach those levels. I don’t think these three have it, but that is my opinion only, and I am hoping to be proven wrong by Klopp and them.
As for the rotation business, I simply don’t care too much about it (nor this article for that matter after reading it). I am happy Klopp has seen the positive of rotation unlike the past season, but I don’t know if it is too much or not. We may get a better view of it once the CL games begin and when the Jan window is done with.
And from what I see, lots of time it is frustration that gets the better of most supporters, me included. We don’t always check our emotions when we think and type.
I don’t know about labels like Klopp apologists, etc, but if you have a positive or negative view of the game, there is always room for debate, at least on here and in person, from what I have read and heard, unlike some websites, and places.
So I wouldn’t paint everyone into what you think is or isn’t because they don’t agree with your views.
And as I have said before, the media can go fuck itself. I can’t handle the daily rubbish and click bait stuff so I tend to stay away as much as I can from it.
It wasn’t anything to do with my views. I usually see both sides. It’s more a rather sarcastic comment on how so many online discussions tend to end up after Mike referenced sanctimonious kloppologists as if it’s a one-sided thing.
The piece is predicated on this fact.
We took 2/6 from Everton and West Brom at Home.
That’s poor.
The selections for both games would’ve made sense had they been the other way round.
They weren’t and we failed to win either.
I’m not sure there’s any need for confirmation bias.
I’ve also traced it back about 6 games and highlighted perplexing selection v Chelsea (another game not won) and wondered – seeing as Klopp is always talking about the heavy schedule – why he felt the need to play all his big guns for so long v Spartak when the game was won.
I expected these comments. But it won’t stop me writing my honest opinion. The levels to which fans go to defend the manager when points are dropped really interests me.
It’s happened again here. I don’t want persecution like Benitez got. That was off the scale and came at a time when he had a European Cup, an FA Cup in the bag, and was top of the league and ranked No 1 in Europe through regular progress to finals and semis of the CL.
Would I swap Klopp for Rafa now?
No. I wouldn’t. He’s a decent manager with a broadly good record at Anfield. But he isn’t perfect and I’m entitled to say it if I think he has some weaknesses.
He got it wrong over the last two games. His opponents? Sam Allardyce and Alan Pardew.
And I think his substitutions are generally either too late (leaving players on too long and susceptible to injury!!) and/or completely ineffectual.
If anyone cares to point out a few games when his subs have changed games, hit me with them.
But you can only make 3 subs. And 2 were taken by injuries or precautions to defenders. What else could he do?
Flip side is is there evidence that making a sub 5 minutes earlier definitely makes a difference? I dunno, but it feels a bit like trying to find a rational point for something when it’s unproveable
We played Brighton the previous weekend. We were 3 up after 48mins I think. Coulda made subs then. We were 4 up midweek v Spartak coulda made a sub then. It’s not about the amount of gabed you start, it’s about the amount of mins you play. Don’t see Pep rotating Silva or de Bruyne too heavily.
We’ve made the most rotations of any team at this stage of the season since 2001, 20 more than the closest team.
This is not normal what we’re doing.
We’re gonna have a fantastically well rested team in Feb with nothing to play for if we’re not careful.
Does it have to be normal? But as you say, let’s see in February. Last 5 games we’re going at the same(ish) PPG as those around us so nothing lost.
KM’s point about the Spartak subs is very valid and is one reason why I said you’re cherry-picking facts. But my biggest issue is with your perception of the “levels to which fans go to defend the manager”… Put “Klopp subs” in the search box on twitter and all there is is criticism! Not one person I know has not criticised the manager for his subs. So my question again is, is it that the criticism is not enough because it’s not at the Rafa level? And to answer your question, people were happy with the subs at Stoke and Leicester, to name two examples based on a minute’s search on the internet. As for selections of the Everton and West Brom matches, West Brom was a more difficult match now I’ve seen both, so looking at it pragmatically rather than romantically the selections made sense. And as Neil pointed out in one of the pods, at the end of the day, after hearing “you should always pick your best 11” for the derby about a million times from various corners, that best eleven is Firmino for Solanke. That’s the only change to that line-up that he should have made now we have all the information about who was fit and who wasn’t. Is this defending the manager? Just would be very boring if no one tried to understand what he’s doing and slated him nonstop instead.
It’s not the first time you’ve been in the minority on something Mike, and not the first time I’m in agreement with you anyway. We all know rotation is essential, at least up to a point, and yet I feel we’ve gotten it wrong.
Football is full of ‘what ifs’ and we all know things could’ve gone very differently vs. Everton, and results can vindicate or damn a manager’s choices.
But this is the problem for Klopp with these recent games – people can trot out all the ‘what ifs’ they like, the fact is, we didn’t get the goal or the decision that we might have or should have. And while maybe rotation isn’t all to blame for the recent woes, by doing it in a crucial moment, I think Klopp has made a rod for his own back. Who knows, maybe if he had played his strongest team against Everton and rested more for WBA, then maybe the results would’ve been the same anyway. But that’s just guesswork or theorising and now all we have is the reality, where we have fucked it up and lost momentum, and that’s why it feels like a wrong move. I love our manager and have defended him against so much bollocks talked this season, but in this case, I just don’t know why he took the risk when confidence was sky high at that moment and the derby means so much to fans and the club.
Agree with most of this Mike.
The policy to rotate is absolutely the correct plan. Klopp has absolutely made mistakes in the execution of that correct plan. I just don’t know how those two statements could be contradicted given the weight of evidence behind them.
The errors are not just in his team selections, but in his in-game management (mainly subs and the timing of subs), which has been the weakest part of what he is as a manager. But this is a learning experience for him. He’s never rotated before. Not at Mainz, not at Dortmund. He’s undoubtedly cost us points with poor decisions, but he’s made us more points through he’s pretty incredible coaching. We’re at a low point right now, we’ve drawn too many games, and this is a massive season for us – top 4 is a must. But if Klopp gets top 4, showing potential targets last season wasn’t a fluke, and we reinforce where we need to in the summer, I’m very confident we’ll see him cut out a lot of these errors next season and (provided the mentality of the team changes, which is another weakness and possibly the last piece in the jigsaw) it will lead to further progression/a possible title challenge.
I’ll criticise Klopp when I feel he deserves criticism. And lately there has been a bit to criticise. And I don’t think we can win anything this season, which is his third in charge (don’t give me the “full season” bollocks). But ultimately I still believe he’s the man. Had he decided not to rotate this season, I wouldn’t be so sure.
Think it’s harsh to pick on the Moscow subs when 2 were enforced. Think it needs that context especially as Matip was also out when Lovren had a knock.
I think a top class goals scoring number 9 solves half these problematic results.Firmino & Solanke are nowhere near the goal threat of our two wide men.A top striker in tight games is essential.Also,WBA,Everton and even Chelsea sat deep,blocked off middle third of pitch and all we do is drive and attack into middle third tryin to play one twos through 8 players.Get a number nine,get combos out wide,men in box and then zip a few balls in and change it up for fucksake Jurgy lad!