FOOTBALL does many things to our emotions, but it very rarely makes us laugh out loud.
Prior to a couple of weeks ago, the last time I remember actually belly laughing in reference to Liverpool was when we demolished Arsenal at home under Brendan Rodgers and, as the fifth goal went in, the whole ground seemed to fall about in fits.
I wasn’t part of a crowd the next time I laughed, and there probably weren’t even that many others laughing at the same time, but when Jürgen Klopp decided to name Simon Mignolet as the team’s captain against West Ham I genuinely chuckled to myself as I thought of the heads of my mates and millions of other fans around the world completely falling off.
I could hardly wait to start sending messages to various Mignolet haters to rub in the fact that not only was our quiet Belgian not being dropped from the side and driven to the airport by one of the thousands of supporters who volunteered for that job after the Spurs game, but he was almost certainly now going to be our ‘keeper for the next 10 years as Kloppo deems him so important as to be next in line for the captaincy when Jordan Henderson and James Milner are missing.
The thought of it still makes me smile. I live around the corner from Klopp and like to think that despite us not having yet met during a dog walk, he read my column about Big Si a few weeks ago and thought he’d start a massive windup on the sly to get back at the “he’s absolutely shite” brigade.
Si The Mig.
Captain. Leader. Legend. pic.twitter.com/JsgzJvP1jM
— The Anfield Wrap (@TheAnfieldWrap) 4 November 2017
Aside from the amusement it gave me, though, there are loads of serious points that come up when it comes to Mignolet being made captain, not least the question of whether Klopp is at all bothered about who his third-choice captain should be on the rare occasions when Jordan and James aren’t around, or whether he just checks who’s got the most appearances and throws the armband in their direction.
I heard recently that a certain national team just picks the oldest player to be the captain to avoid any arguments about it, but I can’t find anything to substantiate that claim on Google so it could have just been a fact made up by a bloke in a pub. Even if it’s not true, I could see that being a good way forward to avoid any debates about leadership that just serve as a distraction to what’s actually happening on the pitch.
At the end of the day, we once had teams dressed in red that were so full of leaders that the armband barely made a difference. In my adult lifetime, I think immediately of Pepe Reina, Sami Hyypia, Jamie Carragher, Alvaro Arbeloa, Xabi Alonso and Steven Gerrard all knocking around in the same team, all doing their bit to keep everyone else in check and all leading the team in their own way.
Unfortunately these days, a bigger question than why Mignolet was ever made captain is exactly who should be captain if not him, especially when the first choice of the last two managers hardly has the universal approval of the worldwide fanbase.
I’ve heard shouts for Roberto Firmino to get the nod, but he’d hardly rank in the list of all-time leaders despite his never-ending work rate. The same could be said for Adam Lallana (when he’s fit and ready to play again), and the fact that no one would pick from our slim pickings of centre halves tells its own tale. In fact, there’s a strong argument that Mr Virgil van Dijk should be installed as the club captain the moment he eventually finds his way to a house near the beach in Formby.
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When I even consider the fact that Jürgen might not care who his captain is it makes me doubt my own thoughts. Surely a manager who puts so much emphasis on team spirit, leadership and togetherness values who he hands the armband to as a physical representation on the pitch of everything he holds dear? I can’t really bring myself to believe that he just doesn’t care who leads the side out.
Another explanation for Si being made captain is, of course, that Klopp thinks the added responsibility would bring out the best in his Belgian shot stopper, showing his confidence in him and backing him to the hilt when the tide of public opinion was very firmly moving against him again.
If that is the case, it would only demonstrate to me that after over two years, our charismatic leader still doesn’t appreciate fully the pressures that come with playing for and, especially, captaining a Liverpool side.
A player who seems to crumble fairly easily under pressure is not someone who I would bet on rising to the occasion by being given additional responsibility, but then again I’m not privy to the information that Jürgen has behind the scenes which, for whatever reason, led to Simon being made captain in the first place.
It comes to something when it makes more sense to me that the player picked by our manager as the captain of Liverpool was because of a windup rather than it being because he’s the best leader or has the potential to become the best.
If Jürgen came out in his next book and declared that making Mignolet captain was worth it so that he could sit back and watch the controversy stack up and the dollars roll in, I’d actually be more comforted than if I found out that he genuinely considers him to be next in line for whatever we think is captain material.
Either way, whether or not it is important is difficult to quantify. Many fans might still question Henderson’s position as club captain, but those who have played with and managed him throughout the years all hail him as a fantastic leader and influence in the dressing room. It all comes back to the general question of what we expect from our captain.
The dream is to have a vocal superstar with an untold amount of ability leading the side, but the reality is that every team will usually have to compromise. Even Gerrard was criticised for being relatively quiet on the pitch despite being such a leader by example.
Regardless of anything else, I’d quite like us to reach a stage fairly soon where it’s not so difficult to pick a natural captain of the side and, if it is, it’s because we’re blessed with numerous options rather than scraping the barrel, appointing people because of their number of appearances or windup potential rather than their actual ability to captain a team.
Until we reach that point, though, I’m quite happy for Big Si to keep the armband if it keeps winding everyone up.
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There’s no such thing as a ‘natural’ leader, independently of the will of those whom that leader is supposed to lead.
Generally speaking, unless properly defined, complete with measurable dimensions or facets, any and all talk of “leadership” in football as in business is mere “hot air”, an exercise in ex post facto ‘explanation’ or (more likely) rationalization.
When people run out of legitimate, measurable, empirically verifiable explanatory factors for either success or failure, they revert to nebulous crap like “leadership” and “character” (or lack thereof) as ‘explanations’ or ’causes’.
I would question if you’ve ever played football. There are plenty of natural leaders in life and in football. I can’t explain that in big words but I know it’s true from my own experience.
I think you’re both right… There is no such thing as a ‘natural’ leader independent of the characteristics (not just will) of those being led, and also environmental factors (so to use the business example, different leadership behaviour is seen as effective depending on the task at hand (e.g. routine or ambiguous) and, say, the employees’ abilities). Recent research though focusing on just traits has found that extraversion and conscientiousness correlate consistently with leadership effectiveness (which might explain why Carragher is viewed as a leader amongst the fanbase). Given that our players are mostly introverted, this might explain why we don’t think any of them are effective leaders. But maybe Henderson is the most conscientious? I don’t think talking about leadership is hot air, essentially. Someone who can influence the other players in the game especially when things are falling apart is quite important I think.
Just to get back to Paul’s article though, when I saw Mignolet was made captain all I could think of was Jose Enrique (and so I thought it actually *pleased* the anti-Migs crowd), but then I did think it made sense solely because he’s the most senior.
I know how this will come across and I apologise for that but the reality is people are weak. They need metaphorically grabbing by the scruff of the neck and giving a good shaking. It doesn’t matter the scenario it’s something I’ve observed all through life. Some people have the ability to do that shaking. It’s the same on the pitch, always has been. You’ve just got to instinctively know what form of shaking to apply to different people to get the best out of them. That’s what makes a leader. For me, Henderson has 60 – 70% of what a captain needs. He just loses a few percent from his own self doubt. He’s the only candidate we have in my opinion though.
I only disagree with your point that everyone is weak and needs grabbing by the scruff of the neck no matter the scenario. I think while someone like Lovren would benefit from having Carragher next to him, because he does seem like he needs constant direction, and his job is mostly routine and functional, if Carragher was to apply the same treatment to creative players like Coutinho, the result would be disastrous I think with Coutinho breaking down and going into his shell. Was it Luis Garcia who needed therapy because of Carragher? So different players in different positions need different types of leadership, even sometimes being left alone to do their thing is ‘leadership’, whereas I think Carragher would just shout at everyone all the time. For me, for example, what Gini did after Salah missed his penalty, by going over to him and having a kind word in his ear, was the epitome of leadership. Doesn’t always have to be a good shaking.
Which is why I agree with your other point, that “You’ve just got to instinctively know what form of shaking to apply to different people to get the best out of them”, but other than the ‘shaking’ not needing to be aggressive all the time, I’d also argue that that instinct comes from experience and training, rather than any ‘natural’ ability.
I’m really as irrational as anyone when it comes to Henderson though. He doesn’t ‘feel’ like a good leader, even though people say he’s talking all the time on the pitch, that he’s great on and off the pitch. I don’t know what it is about him. Even when he stood up to Costa it looked more like theatre. Maybe it’s self-doubt like you say.
you are SO wrong…!
of course there are those, in or outside of football who naturally take charge, often simply by instinct!
Stopped reading when you said you live around the corner from Klopp. Off to google to see some of the massive houses you might live in and guess which is most ‘Cope’ style.
Henderson isn’t a Liverpool captain. Who would you make captain then? Dunno, what about Milner. Milner doesn’t start anymore. So who would you make captain? Can then. Really? A man who won’t sign a new contract because he’s leaving. Ok, Coutinho, oh no, Mane. You think Mane would be a good captain? Well buy one then. But the window doesn’t open till January and anyone who comes in will need an absolute minimum of 6 months at the club first. Well, it shouldn’t be Henderson. Ok, so who should it be? Dunno. zzzzzzzzz
I have that conversation every day.
Exactly. And tbh, would going into the market purely for a leader be worth it? I’m not sure.
If one comes along which coincidentally has a combination of leadership and talent (van Dijk?) then maybe, and in a list of potential players is should be considered, but it shouldn’t be a sole cause.
What’s exactly must Henderson do to demonstrate he’s captain material? Be more vocal? I suggest people watch him more closely because he’s far from quiet. Lead by example? How exactly? He plays in a position that doesn’t allow him to make Gerrard-esque attacks when we are chasing goals. Henderson’s role in the midfield is one of positional discipline and as such it limits most spontaneous attacking actions. Should Henderson be organising the defence? Gerrard had Hyypia and Carragher to do that for him, why is it suddenly Henderson’s responsibility to take on a function traditionally overseen by a centre back? Of course, we all know why – we are lacking a leader at centre back. Perhaps the question shouldn’t be whether Henderson is captain material but rather why aren’t the other players offering the same levels of support to Henderson that Gerrard received from the likes of Carragher, Hyypia, Alonso etc? Personally speaking, if our club manager and the national team manager consider Henderson qualified enough to be made captain I’m more than happy to defer to their judgement – they see him on the pitch, in training and in the dressing room so can make a far more informed decision than any of us.
well said Sir.
Its becoming as boring as the repetitive CB conversation. Every conversation about Liverpool FC, regardless of the topic, now seems to require mandatory repetition of the same CB, GK and Captain points as if stuck in groundhog day.
Yep.
If you’ve ever visited This is Anfield, you’ll have noticed the ‘View from the opposition’ feature they do. It’s tiring, seeing the phrase “as much as Klopp has built a formidable attacking side, their defence continues to undermine them”. Literally word perfect every time. (Give or take). Really, really boring.
Henderson has proven through his effortless improvement since joining LFC to be the natural choice of captain for many years to come.
There are absolutely natural leaders….in every single situation in life where a group of people work towards a common goal. This is true in business, the military and especially in sports teams. Characteristics? These individuals are generally alphas, and they enjoy a level of respect from their mates that can come about in a variety of ways – maybe they are highly skilled, maybe they outwork others, maybe they are more experienced, maybe they are better communicators, maybe they are selfless…it is generally a combination of some of those characteristics. If you throw ten guys in a locked room and they need to get out before they starve to death, you will quickly see a hierarchy create itself – there may be some challenges, but a leader will absolutely emerge. Its silly to think leadership isn’t a natural characteristic.
Generally alphas… and don’t forget taller than average, because studies have shown that most people in leadership positions are taller than average. Right?
The problem with talking about ‘natural’ leaders is not knowing whether these ‘natural’ characteristics make the leader or whether the opportunity for leadership allows the person a chance to develop into effective leaders. Certain people become leaders because we have biases as to what a leader looks like, so then these traits are linked with effective leadership over time. Tall men were better leaders a long time ago when defending us from our enemies, for example. Does an alpha make a better leader today, in every situation? or do we just keep letting them lead us so they develop into good leaders? What happens if in your example of the locked room, you take out the leader and repeat the exercise, and another leader emerges, and take him out again and repeat the exercise, and another leader emerges. Suddenly the fourth person in the hierarchy is now also a ‘natural’ leader and could get the job done just as well as the first leader. Not a natural leader in one scenario, but natural in another? That sort of contradicts your point, because suddenly everyone is a ‘natural’ leader depending on the situation and the people being led.
no Amy,
I will contradict your contradiction, In my experience , in business, in alternatives, in charity, sport, social work, or private life,,,of course there are those, in or outside of football who naturally take charge, often simply by instinct! .. someone who takes responsibility, sometimes due to a lust for power and a will that wont give in…with good or bad intentions… sometimes even the ugliest ,
smallest… i’ll throw in Alexander,Napoleon, & Adolf…
What I’m reading from your comment is that in your experience people who naturally take charge are not necessarily the best leaders. You’re not really contradicting what I said.
‘A player who seems to crumble fairly easily under pressure….’
Really? All very easy to criticise. Put yourself in his shoes playing in front of what must be the most neurotic crowd in the country playing for a club desperate for a premier league it has barely come close to lifting in 25 years none of which is down to him. He may not be the greatest keeper in the world but I reckon he’s got balls of steel to still be in there. Certainly he got us over the line in 4th place race. If anyone crumbles to easy under pressure it’s certain parts of the home support who at the first misplaced pass starting getting on the players backs and playing right into the away team’s game plan.
Klopp is clearly trying to say something with this.
The captaincy issue reflects FSG’s transfer policy since they bought the club. We lose world class players (Torres, Gerrard, Suarez, etc) and replace them with far cheaper alternatives on much lower wages in the hope they turn out to be world beaters (we got lucky once with Suarez). But in general there is a clear strategy of replacing great players with mediocre ones from clubs like Sunderland, Southampton, Hull and Newcastle. And then we wonder why a player as limited as Henderson is by far the stand-out candidate for the captaincy.
Gee, it’s a mystery alright……
It’ll be interesting to see who we replace Coutinho with. I’ll go out on a limb and predict it will be a player no top club in England or Europe is chasing, a player who demands less than half the wages of United/City/Chelsea’s top earners and someone completely unproven at the business-end of the CL level. But never mind, it’s not what the player can do for us now that’s important, it’s what he might do for us in 5 years that counts!
Yay! You managed to get it in.
Ok, Coutinho will be replaced by Keita. I think we’ve already established that. I’m ok with that.
Let’s look at the last 3 windows. Let me know who the world class ones were who were replaced by mediocre ones. I know I’m wasting my time here because you won’t back up your rhetoric but it’s worth a go.
This summer
OUT – Andre Wisdom, Ryan Fulton, Lucas, Kevin Stewart, Sam Hart, Mamadou Sakho
IN – Mohamed Salah, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Dominic Solanke, Andrew Robertson
Last Summer
OUT – João Carlos Teixeira, Lawrence Vigouroux, Jerome Sinclair, Jordon Ibe, Martin Škrtel, Sergi Canós, Joe Allen, Brad Smith, Ryan McLaughlin, Christian Benteke, Mario Balotelli, Tiago Ilori, Joe Maguire
IN – Sadio Mane, Georginio Wijnaldum, Joël Matip, Ragnar Klavan, Loris Karius
2 Summers Ago
OUT – Steven Gerrard, Raheem Sterling, Sebastian Coates, Glen Johnson, Brad Jones, Rickie Lambert, Rafael Páez, Fabio Borini, Iago Aspas
IN – Roberto Firmino, Christian Benteke, Nathaniel Clyne, James Milner, Danny Ings, Joe Gomez
So, come on mate. Where’s your issue? In my eyes we’ve lost 2 good players. Gerrard and Sterling. Gerrard retired and is irreplaceable and for Sterling we got Firmino. You could argue the saved Gerrard wages went on Benteke who was then replaced by Mane so Gerrard for Mane is ok in the circumstances.
My feeling is you’re still remembering the early days when the club was in a mess. Torres was replaced by Suarez. The deal was agreed knowing Torres would leave in the January. The one big fuck up was failing to get Sanchez for Suarez. We tried but failed.
It’s a general point I’m making, we are not replacing our best players when they leave, regardless of whether it was 3,4,5 windows ago. We do not bid for the top level players (proven at the top level, command 250k/week+, wanted by the clubs we’re supposedly trying to catch up with, etc). There has been a clear, gradual decline in the caliber of player we sign over the tenure of FSG to the point where Henderson is our captain.
And no, I’m not suggesting we go out and bankrupt the club trying to buy the title like United are trying to do. I’m suggesting we do what Liverpool Football Club always did to be successful – ie, augment smart signings and youth graduates with the occasional break-the-bank, big money signing (eg, Kennedy, Dalglish, Beardsley etc)
And I don’t accept this argument that we can’t compete cos City and others have deeper pockets. Do people think we would bid for a player, City bid more, we bid more again and it goes all the way up to £1.3bn or something? We can easily afford 2 or 3 much-needed world class players, especially a keeper and finisher.
But I just can’t see it happening with these owners. Instead we’ll probably sign another 4 average players for each weak position and hope a few work out. In the meantime our -ostensible – rivals disappear further off into the distance.
And happy as I am that Keita is coming, he’s had one good season in a top 5 league so it’s nowhere near the same as signing a player with a few titles/CL’s under his belt and who is still in his prime
I think there’s still a misconception about football ownership and what they do. Liverpool only spend what Liverpool make. The days of outside money are gone. PSG are often used as an example but they’ll be selling a lot in January to get compliant. I’m not necessarily an FSG fan as the term seems to go these days. I’m indifferent to them but I like fairness. Every penny Lfc have made prior to Klopp has been spent. The accounts are available from Companies House. It’s been Klopp’s decision not to spend it all recently but for every penny of the budget he doesn’t spend it all gets carried over to the next window if he wants it.
Our signings are improving as our finances improve. Sometimes, your Keita’s, Mane’s and Salah’s are better signings than the expensive names likes of Di Maria. The problem is, Utd make £200m a year more than us and have over £100m a season more to spend. Somehow City made £170m more than us, presumably by cooking the books with sponsorship deals. But, the point is Lfc haven’t been able to afford to gamble on a player on £250k a week and get it wrong or you’re stuck with him for 4 years. It’s often a gamble.
The other thing is, whilst I’m aware money is the currency of life and football who would choose us over City, Utd and Chelsea prior to Klopp? Suarez wanted to leave us for Arsenal. That shows our stock. Things are changing. Keita, regardless of having 1 good season (which is not strictly true but I take your point) would be in demand come the summer. Van Dijk too. Mane was wanted by Utd. There was more interest in Salah and than is assumed. We’re starting to get the players in demand. The club is moving forward and as more money is coming in we’re getting better players. Remember when we had to buy players like Aspas, Alberto, Illori, Assaidi and Yesil? It wasn’t long ago. Then it went to Lallana, Benteke, Lovren and Markovic weren’t cheap and Firmino. Under Klopp it’s become Mane, Salah, Gini and Ox. In the next few months we’ll see Keita at a big price and Van Dijk.
My point is, it’s progressive. The club are building. Trying to bring everything back to the owners is a disruption we don’t need. It’s not the time for a H&G scenario. The reality is we’re on an upward curve and have been for years except we crashed after the 13/14 season and it set us back. Give it 18 months and I think you’ll be a lot happier with everything.
Yeah , I’ll bite…
of course there are those, in or outside of football who naturally take charge, often simply by instinct!
I was laughing when I say Mign. lead out the team, but not a “funny” but a bitter ironic laugh, being a critic of the current Lfc losing its “Liverpool way” I had complained when Milly was appointed, as I believed, then, that a player should have been grounded in a club a while before being given the “honour” ..
I think Jk is an adequate coach, but its a part of his cavalier “gung ho” mentality to abandon care.. doesnt seem to realise how important certain things are, for some of the Reds Supporters… like comparing Fergie with John Lennon..!
for me a goalkeeper should not be captain , ideally a CB or midfielder ..who has responsibility , vision and voice should have the role…
having said that, is a sad reflection of the players mentality hwne I looked at the other (outfield) players and thought, who else?…. bit sad really…
Seem to have strayed way off the point of the article which was about leaders, comparing Mig to the likes of Carra and all that.
Remember Carra got a lot of stick early in career. And for all that leadership Paul says we had back then, Carra SG, Alonso Reina etc etc they only had one half decent run at the title and came up short all in an era when City and Spurs were shite. Maybe we need to give Klopp and those players he puts his reputation on the line with a chance to build something and stop writing them all off.