AS far as sucker punches go, that’s up there.
Liverpool were absolutely undressed by Manchester City in a manner that demands an immediate response.
But fuck the result.
Having been clearly the better side for most of the opening period the game was taken away from Liverpool in the space of 12 minutes.
With City firmly on the back foot, The Reds only had themselves to blame for not already having an ample cushion to absorb the softest of City goals.
The squad and ability that Pep Guardiola has at his disposal can pick apart any side in Europe, but having managed to contain and dominate for the most part Liverpool conspired, once again, to gift the easiest of goals.
There were question marks as to why Ragnar Klavan started the game in place of Dejan Lovren, which Jürgen Klopp put down to international break fatigue, but the gap he allowed to open up behind him to allow Sergio Aguero in was so great he should have scored twice.
That Klavan is our third-choice centre half in the first place is entirely different piece all together, and a legitimate question that needs answering.
But OK, no big deal.
But with Mark “Clattsy” Clattenburg gone, the Premier League needs a new enforcer, a preening gobshite desperate for the limelight.
Cometh the fixture, cometh the gobshite.
With bingo wings that’d shame your nan, the 46-year-old headmaster couldn’t wait to flourish his newly-issued, fluo-orange card, giving Sadio Mane his marching orders for contesting a 50-50 challenge with Ederson’s face on the edge of the Man City area.
With the game effectively over as a contest, City then stretched their advantage, with Liverpool willing participants, collapsing as pathetically as the nation’s cricket team when things aren’t going for them.
The incident between Mane and Ederson is yet another example of an official refereeing an occasion instead of an incident and, as a result, spoiled what was warming up to be a cracker of a fixture.
What, exactly, was Mane supposed to do? Not contest a bouncing ball with a ‘keeper who has taken evasive action and put himself in danger?
Whether or not the referee was swayed by Man City’s swarming of the incident is unclear, but given the severity of the injury was such that Ederson saw out the end of the game in a stadium executive box and not, surprisingly given their reaction, intensive care, has soothed their concern.
Is there also not an argument, considering the length of time that Ederson was receiving treatment on the pitch and with play stopped, for the referee to take stock and have a quiet word with someone who might have (quietly) seen a video replay instead of rushing to his arse bin and get his name in the paper?
The end result was an absolute embarrassment, but it doesn’t sting half as much as if we’d been on the end of a three-goal defeat with 11 men on the pitch because the game ceased to be a contest in the 37th minute.
With Champions League football proper, and hopefully a decent referee, back at Anfield this week what better way to dust yourself off?
READ: Manchester City 5 Liverpool 0: The Final Whistle
READ: Manchester City 5 Liverpool 0: Match Ratings
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Talk about one-eyed. Oh, and Ederson did go to hospital near the ground for x-rays, he arrived back just before the end of the game.
So he was fine then. Not even kept in for a HIA. back in the ground within 45 mins
Seriously? My glasses are as red-tinted as any, but “he was fine”? Well, yes, fortunately he escaped serious injury, but how can anyone criticise a man for going down and getting checked up in hospital after he bravely puts his head in to clear the ball and gets studs through it at high speed?
This comment isn’t the worst example but… Shaking my head. C’mon Reds. We’re hurting, but Ederson did nothing wrong. If our keeper did something that brave for the team we’d be backing him to the hilt.
Arguably a bad decision by the ref, but that’s not Ederson’s fault either.
when he went down to the floor he turned and faced the referee cheating bastard
Ok, the ref handed the advantage to them, but it’s a real indictment of this team that they couldn’t get to half time without conceding a second. We needed a leader to get everyone together during the enforced break and make sure everyone knew the importance of seeing it out. But our defending from that point was lamentable. Jurgen will have some difficult questions to field about our current centre halves.
Does a huge disservice to that pass De Bruyne played.
4 of those goals…we score them we are purring at how fucking good we are.
Yeah but we didn’t score them did we? And yes we don’t have a leader on the pitch. Where was Henderson today? What happened to Klopp’s defensive tactics? His attacking game is fun to watch, but he has naive players defending, so surely there needs to be some level of concern to address this?
That makes no sense. You’re saying we didn’t score the goals but blaming the defence.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote, as, if we scored goals then we would be purring/on fire/whatever.
The defensive frailties that continue to persist way before Klopp has not helped matters today, but Klopp and the team adjusting to somewhat of a defensive stance against a team like City who like to play, and hit them on the counter would be a way to win from a defensive point of view. Make sense?
If not I suggest that you watch some Chelsea matches from their last title wining season to see what I mean.
Spot on mate!
About 4 of their goals & us purring if we scored them I mean.
Is it a real indictment that 10 man Chelsea conceded 3 goals, at home, in 1 half, against Burnley – who couldn’t buy an away win all last season? No it was just ‘one of them’.
Is it an indictment that 10 man United conceded 5 goals, at home, in 1 half, against fellow rivals City? No it was just ‘one of them’.
This result is a complete shit fest but there’s fuck all to take from it.
@Aaron, Chelsea won the League title, and Scum won the Europa League, what about LFC? If they had won either of the above two I’d say bad day at the office and move on.
However our team faces certain level of adversity (down to 10 men, 0-2 down), and can’t seem to respond with discipline, leadership, communication and/or aggression in defending.
Liverpool seem to let things happen to them, like last season’s defeat to Leicester, or did you also think that was a one-off too?
Spot on.
Means nothing, proves nothing, a non-event after Moss’ look-at-me moment.
Wow. Leave it out. Always a red. Bad luck, move on. We’re still a boss side. We’ll handle not having Mane against Burnley and Leicester (twice). We have a perfect situation for bringing Coutinho back into the fold. It won’t be a big story, because he’s coming in for a suspended Mane. That’ll then serve to more easily phase out one of Wijnaldum and Can. And once Coutinho is settled on that left hand side of the midfield three, with our front three as good as they are, just think about that. There’s plenty of season left for us to go on a run, so the sooner we got the worst of us out, the better. And as Klopp said, better to lose one 5:0 then five 1:0s.
Excellent. Especially the last sentence.
It was a red card. If Andy or any of you don’t think so then please give me a second to leave my studs on your face while you’re racing out towards me and then let me know once you wake up about what you think then.
So stop with the excuses and man the fuck up. Red cards will happen from time to time for inexplicable reasons too.
As much as I admire Klopp’s penchant for attacking and all that pressing, etc, Chelsea has proven it takes defensive tactics to help a team limit damage during an off-day, let alone to go on and win the title.
We will win fuck-all with this type of mentality and tactics especially shown by the manager when you are playing against the likes of team who doesn’t come to lie down for you.
Sevilla will repeat their Europa final performance if Klopp and the team don’t sort themselves out before the next match.
This loss isn’t a write-off, but a severe lesson about defending and finishing.
100% a red card, no doubt about it!
Wow! Talk about blinkered vision or maybe just tired and emotional Andy? Hope it’s the latter so will cut you a break but that was a cast iron red. No questions. Also, as much as I admire Jürgen standing up for our boy Sadio I hope he reflects on his reaction. Yes, Sadio likely didn’t see the Keeper and it was clearly an accident but it was dangerous play. If one of the Mancs put his foot up that high on Mings we’d be screaming Red!
No, it wasn’t a red card – it was a bloody awful decision. But it wasn’t as bad as Klopp’s team selection. Liverpool were playing with 9 men when Mané was sent off – Klavan and Moreno are Sunday League players, nothing else. Anybody who is daft enough to imagine Liverpool can challenge for anything really got a reality check this afternoon. As for Salah, he is a very good player but…he has only one foot and he needs afout 6 really good chances before he puts one in the net. As for Henderson – never rated him and never will.
Hendo’s been awful so far this season, for club and country
You really need to get a handle on your emotional outbursts – this is just biased, knee-jerk cryarsing. As the “boss” of TAW, you should be setting the standard, but given your behaviour on Twitter this is hardly a surprise.
Oh, and for what it’s worth, Carragher agreed that it’s a red, so it’s clearly not the ridiculous decision you so desperately want it to be.
If Carragher says it’s a red that’ll do me. What the hell was his boot doing up there. He could have used his head. Behave Andy. Stop making excuses for spineless players and poor managers decisions.
If mane goes with his head he is in the hossie after being battered by a 6ft 6 keeper.
He’s 6ft 2, fella
Well in gibbos dad… again!
Only a shit house blames the ref. And I don’t believe in hiding behind ‘It’s man city’ bollox!
If goal difference is worth anything at the end of the season then that’s 4 points lost today. Worse teams would have walked away with a draw there! Fact.
‘Worse teams would have walked away with a draw there! Fact.’
How is it a fact?
What worse teams?
I can’t see many …if any teams that would go down to ten men there, already one nil down and come back and effectively win the rest of the game one nil….with ten men? Have a day off lad!
As soon as we went down to 10 I said to my mate “this will be 4 or 5 now” even though we had been the better side.
There’s just no way on earth we’re able to sit in and keep it tight and maybe nick one, as soon as mane went so did the result!
And why not? Or maybe we should ask this of Klopp then? Do you recall any (top) team going down to 10 men and still come back and win or at least draw? Why not the Reds man? Why is it this or nothing with the Reds?
Carragher was always going to say it was a red. If it’s contentious he’ll always go against us to show how un-biased he is.
100% a red card. Studs up, well above waist level, keeper first with hos head on the ball. YNWA.
I don’t think it was a red, but it clearly depends on your interpretation and whether you lay all the blame for the danger of the challenge on Mane and not Ederson. Both of them were committed, and if you interpret as reckless, then both were that too. Everyone arguing as if it’s cut & dry simple decision and their side is right, and the other are idiots. If Mane should go then Bellerin should have gone at Anfield (I don’t think he should have really), exactly the same scenario in outfield but misses contact, Salah wins tbe ball and scores, no outrage about dangerous play. Imo a yellow would have been a fair shout, Moss has been influenced by arrogance (Andy’s right), the City players and thinking Ederson us seriously injured (he’s not, thankfully). Need more common sense and understanding of nuance in the game to keep it real, not more self righteous intolerance on it off the pitch.
“Moss has been influenced by arrogance (Andy’s right), the City players and thinking Ederson us seriously injured (he’s not, thankfully). Need more common sense and understanding of nuance in the game to keep it real, not more self righteous intolerance on it off the pitch.”
This is exactly right. He’s gone for the red because he wants the crowd to cheer his decision. The Bellerin example is a good one and indicative of how ludicrously inconsistent the application of the rules is.
Dan I see what you’re saying mate, but at that point Ederson was a lump on the field, with Mane’s studs on his face to prove some contact being made.
If Ederson was seriously injured then would you still be saying the same?
This is where the debate lies for me. The interpretation of “dangerous play”. If Mane can’t see Ederson, or isn’t fully aware of him in relatiom to his own position, can it be considered dangerous play? If Mane is facing Ederson square on, then I’d completely accept the red. Players often jump into the air with an outstretched leg to control the ball.
Naturally I’m glad Ederson is not more seriously injured and I appreciate the impact was huge, but I just feel it’s tough on Mane to do him for it when it’s so clear he wasn’t aware of Ederson.
Carragher annoyed me to be honest. He knows full well he’d be slaughtering Mane if he ducked out of that one.
I agree it’s tough on Mane, and I think he’s just very very unlucky here. Had he gotten to the ball half a second earlier the ‘keeper would have been the one sent off. What I don’t get about this foul play rule though is why doesn’t it apply to defenders when they go in 50/50 to head the ball and one of them ends up with a broken face (Cahill on Ryan Mason last season, for example (or Cahill on anyone, really))? So I get that the rule is that intent doesn’t matter but doesn’t that make every 50/50 challenge that ends with someone holding their head a red card? Half a second would have made such a difference here. It’s just really bad luck.
Agee with the below (can’t reply to it for some reason).
There is zero consistency with this law. Ederson careered out of goal in a manner that could easily be interpreted as dangerous had he collided with Mane first.
Amy’s right, in that if it was Mane in a half second earlier, then we would have seen Ederson with a red card.
However would you and Amy accept a red card if it was the other way round, where Aguero’s studs went into Mignolet?
That’s how it might have been assessed as well by the ref, though that would be by a stretch.
Hi Sash, I’d accept either a red or a yellow. I can see how it’s a red for Mane based on the laws of the game (and I also think head injuries are no laughing matter), but I also agree with the view that Ederson is just as reckless and it’s only the fact that he’s come off worse in what was a 50/50 that Mane gets the red instead of him. It really could have gone either way, and that might be the argument for a yellow instead of a red. We’ve seen loads of these challenges where no card was given because no one was injured, and loads of challenges where the laws say they are ok but someone was seriously injured. Not sure what the answer is really.
Not sure what’s up with the reply option, but this is @Amy. Hiya Amy, just wondering about what you said in your last comment.
Do you think that Ederson a goalkeeper, who is taller than Mane, outside his area, instinctively uses his head, instead of his foot was reckless?
Perhaps if Mane used his head instead of his foot to get to the ball first, unless Mane’s intent was to kick the ball into the goal. Difficult to make this decision for Mane, but going in with a header might have yielded a painful foul or even a red card for Ederson.
@Sash: No I don’t think the recklessness comes from what body part they used, I only meant reckless as in they both did what they are trained to do in their respective positions in that moment without thinking about the negative consequences. Kirk used “committed” in the first comment and maybe that’s a better word. I think if the incident was repeated a hundred times both players would do the exact same thing in that microsecond, but maybe other referees would give a yellow instead, or maybe Ederson wouldn’t have been injured and no card would have been given at all. It is what it is, I don’t think we need to keep arguing that the red was the right decision.
(Btw, I think the comment option stops working after the fifth comment level to make it easier to read the comments, as every level moves a little to the right of the screen and so would eventually fall off the screen).
And now an even better example to add to Bellerin…..Matt Richie. The inconsistency seems to suggest tgat that actual contact/injury is the influencing factor…..and that is not in the rules or the intention of the rules.
Yep. Because the problem here is that the punishment now depends on how the other player in the challenge acts. Mawson spins away from Ritchie, so wasn’t hurt in the face, whereas Ederson dips his head, so gets injured. Mane’s punishment should not be dependent on Ederson’s behaviour in the challenge, so if Ritchie’s was a yellow card then Mane’s should be too.
The key being “misses contact”. You need to put yourself in the ref’s eyes to see if he saw the player laying on the ground was going to move or not. How would you have assessed that? Contact alone is more than enough to have swayed the ref’s decision to show a red, but add a player knocked out cements his decision.
To us fans, it would seem harsh at the moment, and emotion gets the better of us. Like Dan and Amy alluded earlier, if it was half a second earlier then Ederson would have gotten a red.
We would be happy to accept that decision right?
For me it’s about what happened after the red that concerns me more. The attitude, the impressions left by the manager and team. I expected a proper fight at the very least even if we went down. Not this type of capitulation so early in the season.
Let’s hope they and Jurgen grow a pair by the time we face Sevilla and learn to defend.
I think as fans we are always happy to accept decisions which go our way. Whether or not they are correct is a different matter. We want our side to win games and anything that increases that possibility is to be welcomed. For instance, if Ederson had clattered Mane and got sent off I would have gladly seen us up against ten men but could also acknowledge the decision was harsh.
In terms of your other point concerning our reaction. Couldn’t agree more. What’s worse is I think we all knew it was coming. You can tell a lot from the period of play immediately following the red card. The pitch looked three miles wide. The way they moved the ball made the pitch so much bigger and highlighted a numerical disadvantage very painfully.
However, would Sadio Mane normally have been marking Jesus for their second? That’s what infuriated me. We seemed to collectively accept that whatever else happened to us was solely down to Mane’s red, which is nonsense. I think the impact of this has been somewhat cushioned by the fact it was Pep and City. Likeable manager and reasonably likeable team.
Imagine if this had happened against Utd? It’d be a stain on the history of the club. The recriminations would be absolutely brutal.
“With the game effectively over as a contest, City then stretched their advantage”
Sums it up really, lose a man (rightly or wrongly) and fall to pieces.
Not saying it’s easy being a man down away to city but today the outcome was inevitable
The ref was a disgracethroughthe whole match. May he be relegated! But the important question that lingers after this match is as follows. Why on earth did the Reds collapse like a brexit campaign in august? There they are, TEN professionals highly trained Liverpool players getting bullied by a team they been known to put to rest tha last meetings. What just happened out there? That, Anfield Wrap, is something for you to analyze.
Seems like the supporters who think that it was a red card are rather keen to stick the boot in to Klopp and his tactics/ transfer policy…
Red card or not, we’re still in deep waters when it comes to defensive issues that existed way before he arrived to LFC. The red card seems like an unwanted focus in that it has been interpreted in different ways with the outcome being we lost Mane.
But there’s no excuse to capitulate in the manner we did and I was hoping for some understanding that Klopp worked on a defensive plan as well in situations like this, or do you think every match we are going to outscore opponents, or not lose our key men, etc?
Sorry Andy but afraid this is just what some on here worry is a tendency for TAW to be blind deaf and dumb when it comes to the frailties of the Team. Gonna put it down to the Shock which we are all suffering after that debacle. It was a clear Pen, of course Mane has to go for it but then He knows the colour He is getting. But after that… well that is unacceptable and is becoming a habit. Up The Reds YNWA
That was a red card. Disappointed to see yet another TAW writer still whinging about it. Andy, you surely must have seen the replays by now.
It was dangerous play. Yes Mane didn’t intend to hurt him like that but intent is not relevant in the rule book. His foot was just too high and that was reckless behaviour. Ederson had to get that side of his face stitched and bandaged.
Let’s just take the defeat on the chin and leave the ref out of it. He made the right call.
All I’ll say is, I had to miss this match completely due to unavoidable work and a gawp at the guardian mbm told me at half time we were two goals and a man down. I figured a win was unlikely but fully believed we’d shore things up and win the second half. That we didn’t is more than a little annoying.
I needed that Andy. Spot on and validating. Up the fucking Reds.
Personally I don’t think the issue is the red card itself, I just think the three game ban is harsh. I’m completely lost nowadays when it comes to FA Law, so can anyone tell me are all straight red cards a minimum three game ban now? Or is just the ones that are determined to be “violent conduct”. Three games seems exceptionally harsh for an admittedly reckless, but honest, attempt to win the ball.
Not intentional from Mané to hurt the keeper but it was a red card. If Agüero or Sterling had done that to Migs at Anfield, the howls for a red would be long and loud.
Yes the red card hurt but so did our wasted chances before it. Who knows, if we were 2 nil up at that stage would Mané be as desperate to get on the end of that ball? City looked shite at the back up until then and we would have been the ones toying with them on the counter attacks as they chased the game. And I bet Ottamendi was saying a silent prayer too because he looked like a red card waiting to happen vs Salah.
Just a shit day all round!
Let’s lick our wounds and go again..
I don’t understand how anyone can think that isn’t a red. He does that anywhere else on the park against any outfield player and it is insta red. The rules don’t change when the keeper comes out of his box.
I understand the selection criticism but Wijnaldum is getting that good at going missing in away games not even lfc fans are seeing how shit he was.
@paukl not every fan has missed the disappearing Gini. :) The guy’s still a Newcastle player in a red shirt, hyped up by more red fans for some occasional flashes in the pan.
Result aside. We have not addressed our deficiencies. Utd & City have strengthened in the Summer. 2 goals chalked off for offside, minutes later identikit goals scored, either Klopp cannot coach defensively or the players cannot take instructions, yet again the back four is changed. Why??? If you’re on the bench you’re ready to start…..the sheer collapse and manner of goals conceded is a total embarrassment.
This team is usually pretty resilient when behind in games, and also in terms of getting good results when the chips are down. Where I do think it’s mentally suspect is after especially good results. It doesn’t seem to isolate itself fully from all the praise that comes its way, or from fans’ bullish predictions (see this site’s previews last Friday). When a game doesn’t go to script, such as the second half against Sevilla, or what followed the sending off yesterday, it then has trouble adapting to the new circumstances.
I think we also saw how against better opponents, we can’t do without Lallana or Coutinho, let alone both. In fairness to our defence, they desperately needed our midfield to get hold of the ball and keep it, something which they failed to do to any extent at any time during the game.
Very true. We do not (or cannot) adapt to circumstances.
The absence of Lallana and Coutinho did impact us. We missed Lallana’s ability to travel with and keep the ball and Coutinho is always good for a goal against these.
The defence was constantly faced with situations which might have been prevented by better retention of possession.
Perfect storm in many ways. Ten men, no ability to keep the ball and opponents who revel in opening the pitch up and overloading you with runners.
I agree as well. And now that I think about it Klopp made a comment before the match about how he was worried about the weekend because of all the success his players had during the international break. So I think this is absolutely a thing, and I don’t know if it comes from their confidence being artificially inflated that they forget they have to work for a result, or that the collapse in confidence is so severe that they can’t function when the game doesn’t go to script. I’d add the Burnley match from last season to your list as well. So the good news then is that yesterday’s result is the wake-up call they needed for the rest of the season…
Agreed as well about the midfield.
entitled to your opinion but you’re sooo wrong and biased. the red card was justified. we were defensively a shambles before the sending off and completely fell apart after half time. moving Emre into defence was ridiculous. we were cut to pieces time after time even when we had 4 and 5 players in our own box. that is whats most concerning yesterday and talking about a correct red card is just avoiding the issue…we cannot defend.!!!!
Matt Ritchie has just been involved in a very similar situation to Mane’s yesterday.
Jumping to control the ball and his foot is level with Alfie Mawson’s face. No contact, or minimal contact and as a result he is only booked.
The issue in a nutshell. Essentially it’s exactly the same thing but the referee has only booked him. We are told the rule is centred upon “endangering an opponent”, but it’s not. It’s all to do with severity of injury to the opponent. Ederson got hurt yesterday and Mane was sent off because of it. Alfie Mawson did not get hurt and Ritchie was therefore booked.
No consistency whatsoever. If you are going to have a rule then fine, but just apply it to everybody.
Studs were high, and even if he didn’t know where exactly Ederson was he would have had that feeling in his stomach he was going to get there second. That he ignored it and stretched for the ball anyway was down to the desperation caused by conceding a soft goal, caused by having Klavan at 3rd choice centre half, and the fear of conceding more. Otherwise I reckon he would have had the patience to wait for the next through ball.
Really missed Lucas today. Would have been first sub after the red card and would have got us through. Henderson doesn’t quite look himself, I am bit worried that he is still carrying that foot injury and it will never truly heal.
That’s good Andy.
First I thought Free out, maybe yellow- then Damn!-Red??! On Review said no way. On half time coolness Review- yes, should be Red. Hearing other refs – no yellow at most.
Then you think of your kids playing the game and those kids grown – shouldn’t we be discouraging the possibility of taking half a face and teeth off if a high tackle goes bad?
Ref looked, made his call. Brave decision as he knew the controversy that’d ensue. He was right. I wrongly cursed him at the time.
On reflection he was MoTM for setting a precedent that could save a lot of people’s faces and head injuries in the future. Once players accept the possible consequences, they’ll tailor their rashness to safer play.
Peter
Mane ripped Ederson’s face apart. He had to go. If the situation had been reversed and Ederson had gone in with his foot 6ft off the ground with Mane trying to head it past him, what would your reaction have been…be honest. A ban for life? With a national day off?
The right and proper decision was made. What Liverpool, as a team, should be more concerned with is the manner they capitulated after a ‘striker’ had been sent off. Bravo didn’t have a touch, if he had been called into action it would have been a goal..you know that.
Wake up to reality Liverpool fans, your squad is way short of winning anything. Maybe Klopp isn’t the answer. A big character and animated touchline antics can look clownish when the results don’t go your way. But don’t try to hide behind lame excuses. That never won anything.