WELL, that hurt.
If you’re going to go down to 10 men against anyone, then it’s probably best not to do so against a Pep Guardiola team. Only a few weeks ago Everton had an extra man against them and still got completely dominated in the second half. Make no mistake, if Chelsea, Manchester United or Tottenham Hotspur had been in the same position they’d have been thoroughly battered as well.
Thanks to the incompetence of Jon Moss these ratings are going to be hard to do. Before the most laughable of red cards to Sadio Mane, Liverpool were well in the game. They were 1-0 down but had been the better team and were continuing to create chances. Afterwards it was just a complete farce, so I’ve tried to be as reasonable as possible, but as usual if you think I’ve given anyone a point too much or too few, then by all means call me a prick on Twitter.
Despite Jon Moss being a very bad referee, I’m going to take the high road and not blame him for the defeat. I’ll barely even mention him.
Simon Mignolet: 7
Don’t really think any of the five goals were his fault. Possibly could do better on the first but his abilities in one-v-one situations have always been poor so expected Sergio Aguero to net, but the rest were largely either from point-blank range or great finishes. Made some very good saves to keep the score from being worse. Jon Moss wasn’t loved as a child and his best friend was a tree.
Trent Alexander-Arnold: 4
Felt sorry for the lad. Expected Joe Gomez to start but Trent was the one tasked with stopping Kevin De Bruyne and Benjamin Mendy. He made some very good interceptions, but also some absolute howlers. Looked nervous on the ball, got a silly early booking and turned his back to allow De Bruyne the time to put the cross in for the game-killing second goal. He’ll have better days though undoubtedly. Jon Moss was called “briefcase wanker” at school.
Joel Matip: 5
Like Trent he did make some nice blocks and tackles, but was also guilty of switching off a couple of times. Also no idea whose plan it was to play such a high line in the second half but was never going to have the pace to catch anyone who broke the offside trap. Jon Moss has posters of Jacob Rees-Mogg on his bedroom wall.
Ragnar Klavan: 4
The decision to play the Estonian ahead of Dejan Lovren for a game like this was frankly more bizarre than picking Loris Karius the other week. If Lovren needs resting this early on then it makes the decision not to sign another centre back all the more puzzling. I recall two really good tackles, and otherwise a game of clangers. Was simply out of his depth against a world class attack. Jon Moss has a hairy back and has never kissed a girl.
Alberto Moreno: 5
Didn’t seem that involved in the game as everything was going down the other side, but equally didn’t seem at all willing to take responsibility. Had a few chances to push on down the left but almost always turned back and gave the ball to the wobbly Klavan. Kyle Walker is a weak defender and there was little to no attempt to test him going the other way. Jon Moss doesn’t get invited to the secret referees-only New Year’s Eve parties.
Jordan Henderson: 6
Thought of the midfield three, Hendo was the only one who had an acceptable game. Did win the ball back a few times and played some nice balls forward in the first half. Excellent ball in for Firmino should have lead to a goal, but as with everyone else, was just given an impossible second half. Jon Moss wanted to be a traffic warden but was too much of an arse.
Gini Wijnaldum: 4
Even before the red card to Mane I thought he was having a really poor game. Seems to turn into this entirely different player away from home who can’t control a pass and just doesn’t get involved in anything in attack or defence. Would have pulled him instead of Salah at half time. Thankfully our next two games are at Anfield so he’ll be boss again, and Jon Moss… I think I’ve run out of them now, sorry.
Emre Can: 5
Had a pretty good first half I thought even if he was guilty of dallying on the ball on a couple of occasions. Knew it wasn’t going to take much to see him back in defence at some point this season, and he struggled. Understandably so against such an onslaught, but gave the ball away in dangerous areas and constantly lost the runs of the attackers buzzing around him.
Sadio Mane: 6
The curse of the player of the month award struck hard, here. Most attacks were going down Salah’s side in the first half, but whenever Mane picked the ball up and ran at the defence something happened. Something was likely to happen at some point, but then Moss decided the game needed ruining. If his red card isn’t rescinded by Tuesday then I’m sending a box to the Premier League on Wednesday with a big dog poo in it.
Mohamed Salah: 6
Such a danger, such a threat, such a constant weapon, and such a frustrating final ball time and again. If only he was better with that final execution he could have had a goal and two assists by the time Mane gets his marching orders. Strange decision to bring him off at half time given the need to play long balls, so can only assume there was a fitness issue. He had been to Africa and back after all.
Roberto Firmino: 6
Should have done better from Henderson’s ball into the box in the first half, but otherwise did as well as could be expected until he was taken off. It was a practically impossible job after the red with three defenders and a defensive midfielder crowding around him. Good decision to rest him when the game was completely gone. Will be needed on Wednesday.
SUBS
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain: 5
What a horrible scenario to make your debut for a new club. Did make some good tackles and played a lovely ball to Firmino for the only opening of the second half, but was caught out a few times as well. An unfair game to judge him on anything though really.
James Milner: 5
Brought a bit more to the game than Wijnaldum had, but was never going to change much of what was happening. Find it so bizarre that City fans boo him. Confirmation that they are among the worst bunch in the land.
Dominic Solanke: 6
Good decision to give him half an hour in that situation. A hard one of course, but valuable minutes nonetheless and he did pretty well. Pressured the defence, won it back a couple of times and, had it not been for a covering tackle by Fernandinho, would possibly have got in on goal after a good run.
Not an ideal way to start the weekend, but I’m not having anyone say that the red card wasn’t the be all and end all of that game. Yes Liverpool could have reacted better to it, but if that red card doesn’t happen I don’t think City win, let alone by that many. The Reds were on the verge of an equaliser when it happened, and City had barely threatened other than the goal they had scored.
Jürgen Klopp’s men will bounce back, starting with revenge over Sevilla on Wednesday.
Oh and no hard feelings, eh Mossy?
Up the don’t worry about it too much Reds.
READ: Manchester City 5 Liverpool 0: The Final Whistle
READ: Manchester City 5 Liverpool 0: Match Review
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It did descend into something of a farce. You knew it would as soon as Jesus got thrle third.
Some horrible individual performances out there today and that’s pretty much all there is.
Hard to not lose your rag watching such a shit-show. One of those games you get once every four or five years where not one single thing goes right in 90 minutes and you feel like shitting in your hand, smearing it on the tele and then walking into the sea.
Like you are with your relentless booing of Sterling (born in London btw). Milner was very critical of City when he left that’s why.
Sterling derailed our season with the manner he was agitated for a move, as he was the focal point of our attack at the time all that nonsense with the BBC interview. Fuck Aidy Ward.
What nasty things did Milner exactly say? He hardly says anything so I doubt it could have been much.
Problem with this is that John Moss was proved right! I doubted his decision but replays and Carragher’s wisdom showed he was right. What is unforgivable is our spineless performance afterwards. Plus managerial ineptitude. We were crap.
Stopped reading at “the most laughable of red cards”. Have a day off, lads.
City fans boo Miller because he left city not for the money, not for game time but because he wanted to play centre midfield now he seems perfectly happy to play left back! He thought he was going to be the new Steve Gerrard.
And the award fornworst excuse of the season goes to……..
That’s complete horse shit! He left City because he wanted game time. He started off playing in midfield and only got moved back to cover injuries. He’s already said that it’s not his favourite position, but he’ll play anywhere to help the team out. He had signed a 3 year contract, so what was he supposed to do, refuse to play and put in a transfer request when he was asked to play in defence? Give your head a wobble lad!
What has that got to do with you though? Surely that is his problem. He moved to played centre midfield, there was a change of manager and the situation changes. It happens
Totally disagree that Man Utd, Chelsea or Spurs would have received a similar hiding with 10 men – yes they would probably have lost but a spineless and rudderless performance like that resulting in a 5-0 hiding; no chance. That second half capitulation was a sight to behold like a slow motion car crash. Reminded me of Arsenal’s performances against Bayern in the CL in recent years where they concede a goal and lsuddenly it’s a free for all.
Firminho and the subs can walk away with some credit but as for the rest I am lost for words. You would think we are the first team to have ever had to play with 10 men. And Henderson was as woeful as any of the other midfielders, a 3 at best.
Spot on Omar. The way we wilted is inexcusable.
I’m hearing all these people having a go at Klavan, but Matip was right at his level. Matip is terrible for the first, absolutely terrible. There is one danger, inside him, and he seems to want to cover the empty acre of space to his right. Then he just jogs back while watching the goal unfold.
It is a sad day when Albi is your best defender out of the back line.
Our defensive frailties, as well as mental softness, will be our undoing again this year. Sure we will play some good footy and annihilate some teams this year, but we will not win anything until the defense is sorted and our mentality is sorted.
This happens to every side. I can name you times. When every side in the top 6 has taken a hiding in the last few years.
We’ve done it to city, arsenal, spurs. City have done it to united. Everyone has done it to arsenal. fucking hell…Everton stuck 5 past city last year
It’s shite but it happens
Yes it does KM, but the point is when and how it happens, I think is what most of us are frustrated and angry about.
This result might blow over in a couple of weeks, but with the upcoming CL game the defensive frailties that have not been addressed will be exposed again.
Arsenal got that treatment last week. Won 3 0 today.
It’ll be ok
Wrong.
Also it’s spelled ‘Firmino’.
Idiot.
Wow what an insightful response. Maybe you should have your own daily column or better still the guys here should retire from podcasting duties and just hand over the reins to you.
If you have something meaningful to add then do it. Otherwise better to just say things in your head rather than come on here to display what a juvenile dickhead you are.
@Omar K, don’t mind EC1251, it’s actually TAW’s beta version of their spellchecker that was binned some time back but for some reason seems to pop up every now and then to correct Proper nouns, etc.
What planet are you living on mate .if you think Liverpool were the better side when it was one nil you need understand how to analyse football from a unbiased perspective otherwise what you write is pointless .everything you stated is completely incorrect. Liverpool were never at any point the better side .the other teams you mention would not have been battered in that way and as for the sending off. Like it or not you can’t fly in studs up with your foot that high . It’s a sending off .
Lol typical Scouser. Always the victim ,it’s never your fault
Gotta agree with Gibbos dad.
Going in at half time with 10 men 1-0 down isn’t that bad especially when you have 8 mins to form a quick plan….. then we go in 2-0 down and come out still with no plan.
I’m a big klopp fan but that was very poor.
And what’s that bollox about ‘rather have 5-0 than five 1-0’s?!’ You don’t get a choice jurgen!!
Love him, but Jurgen Klopp 0.
One of the most craven substitutions I’ve ever seen: may as well of waved the white flag. I’ve never been more disappointed by Klopp.
Agree re that substitution, Klopp said in the post match press conference that Salah’s substitution was tactical and not due to some injury so obviously he was saving him for the next game. When Salah comes off you take away any pace in the front line and we are effectively conceding the game. That is incredibly disappointing but if you are waving the white flag then at the very least you’d hope that it would be accompanied by some stout defending. Instead we got the worst of both worlds.
I hope this is a one off and this margin of a loss probably is, but the manner of defeat the folding like a pack of cards is alarming. And how confident can anyone be that we won’t lose needless points because of our backline. With the way things are, the margins are fine and after a pretty decent campaign last year we only qualified for the champs lg by a point. I love Klopp but the failure to bring anyone in to the centre half position is inexplicable. Whether that is down to poor scouting or Klopp it is pure negligence. It is absurd to say that there is no defender out there who can do a better job than Klavan in these situations, never mind the other two who aren’t exactly world beaters.
No one other than VVD I mean
Hendo was awful, Dave. Awful.
I support the reds through thick and thin but had to stop reading after the intro in which you state it was bad refereeing. It was a nailed on red card. If you are that blind and biased then I’m sure your ratings are far off the mark anyway.
Agree Hendo awful. Never has been and will never be a number 6.
Ditto Paul Ewart.
Only Mignolet deserves more than a 5.
Ditto the second comment btw
Good ratings but if you’re giving those lads 6 and 7’s – Hendo deserved an 8, and Migs deserved a 9nif you contextualise their play properly. Time to be fair on those lads.
Altogether others- fair enough.
Ref made the right call. Unintentional but dangerous play. Slagging him off is a poor show. Defensively we’re the weakest of two Mancs and Chelsea. We’ll win nowt this season with this back line. Soz abar tha!
How long will it take for Salah to be clinical with his 1v1s? He should arguably have had two before the s/o. We can argue about the s/o, there is no argument that Jon Moss is a piss poor amateur on his best day, and his petulant display to Jurgen at the end was bullshit.
A proper captain would have lead by example, got the team organised and demanded a fu*king rearguard action to at least leave the pitch with some dignity. Henderson. apart from his own abysmal performance, showed none of this. He is simply not someone who inspires or leads. Having said that the team lacks leaders all round. Can to me looks like he might have the makings but perhaps he lacks experience. Either way part of the recruitment package needs to be buy good players but get some with balls. Too many of our current squad lack what Lucas had, the desire to leave nothing on the pitch and have pride in wearing the shirt.
Agree with you Frank.
Henderson has his moments and is a nice guy from TAW’s last interview with him. Unfortunately for him, we had Stevie G as captain, and those are big boots to fill – not only leadership-wise but have you ever seen those Stevie G passes and goals? Time and time again. How has Henderson is a poor person’s version of Stevie G trying to ping those balls, etc and with one or two in 50 he gets lauded and overly hyped. Without the weight of captaincy he didn’t come anywhere near as close to the consistency of our past captain. With the weight of being captain ask Edwards for some of the stats on Henderson.
For me it’s down to the manager for not spotting this, being at the helm for the 3rd season. He should recognize that’s maybe too much weight and so give Henderson a break and let him focus on his football instead.
Another problem is the transfer committee looking for children to adopt into superstars based on the current LFC player recruitment model. So you might get those with slightly less developed family jewels to bare during times of duress such as our last match up.
Captain Fantastic in the making might take more time than anticipated I’m afraid.
The anfield wrap (like a few media outlets)is showing the concerning bias towards Henderson. He was pathetic yesterday, offering nothing to rally the troops nor protect the defence. Utter garbage. -6 more like it
It was the lack of fight and leadership that hurt the most. Taking off Salah was admitting defeat, but at least shut up shop. They were very good, but they just walked through us. Embarrassing.
This team is just not capable of shutting up shop Mike,as I’m sure most of us know.Its obviously totally against Klopps philosophy,but it won’t win any league titles for Liverpool.
That was never a red card. If you miscue an overhead kick and catch someone, it’s a yellow card for dangerous play. What’s different here?
Mane has eyes only for the ball and with the keeper well out of his box, Mane has every right to try win it. He doesn’t due to very brave keeping, so it’s a yellow. When Gary Nevil and Mark Clattenberg are saying it’s a yellow, then there’s no way it’s a definite red.
Don’t like to refer to other sites, but this sums it up well: https://tomkinstimes.com/2017/09/moss-sides-with-manchester-and-kills-liverpool-hopes/
Hendo is coming back from a long term layoff and his timing is still off in terms of positioning and passing. But his use of the ball was too poor yesterday when the game needed slowing down. He is always looking for the safety first ball and often ends up causing more panic by delaying to play a quick one two and then does a last minute backpass that puts the keeper under pressure. A playmaker he is not and so the team needs someone that can dribble with the ball to relieve pressure. Against a pressing team of City’s quality our midfield looked bereft of ideas and invention. They exposed why we miss Lallana and Coutinho so much. I think we need Coutinho back asap and I’m sure that fact wasn’t lost on Klopp. Overall though we were too complacent and open against a City side who we have done well against under Klopp. Pep did a number on Klopp by capitalising on our tactical weaknesses.
@Ash, Henderson is a decent squad player, who runs a lot, passes the ball ala Gerrard style once in a while, and adds a wonder goal once in a bluemoon. He appears to be a nice guy, like Gini, affable, etc, so he seems to coast through the job at LFC just like our brilliant goalkeeping coach. TAW has interviewed both of them somewhat elevating their nice guy status a bit, nothing wrong with that.
However on the pitch it’s a different story for the past few years.
On the pitch is where I wish to see our Captain, Henderson, turn into a player that the opposition fears, not the same chum he’s been portrayed as off the field. Players like Gerrard, Sounness, come to mind, granted it’s a different footballing era, and all, but steel, grit, skill, are consistently required for the job.
How long has Henderson been at the club now? Hasn’t he had enough time to develop into the world class player that some fans think or say he is? How many trophies has he led the team as captain to so far?
As for the rest of team, we don’t have steel or grit in them either, maybe Mane and Milner, as I see the guys give it their all even with their tackles. The rest are all lightweights and go missing when the going gets tough.
What is alarming is that we sent the wrong type of message to the rest of the teams. I will agree that the scoreline will most likely not happen again, but they know when we lose a player in the game to a red card, deservedly or not, we will wave the white flag.
Not having Coutinho and Lallana and highlights a different type of problem. That’s okay in my books, as we knew this going into the match. What I was looking for was something like what Chelsea did with their “one-off” game against Burnley. With 9 men down, and 0-3 at half time, they fought back and let the other team know that while you’ve had your day and sucker punched us, we will leave you with a few closing statements by coming back 2-3.
That’s what champions with grit, steel and skill do with 9 men on the field, not fold like little red flowers at the sight of a blue wave.
Even non-EPL winners have done this on a regular basis to the fearsome attacking LFC. They come to Anfield, go down a goal or 2, and then suddenly realize, hang on why are we playing them at their game, let’s put numbers behind the ball, and try to nick a goal every now and then and see. So how many teams have done that even in the dying minutes? Does it take tactical genius or great skill to do this? So how come we didn’t do this instead to City?
Klopp is brilliant when he is in his element, but his subs, romantic/idealistic approach and stubbornness to address the defensive issues, is worryingly similar to Dortmund’s run in the CL. Dortmund did well to reach the CL final only to lose to Bayern Munich a team he beat previously in the league, and did not learn from his mistakes against that team. I was hoping he would try and not repeat his mistakes at LFC, but with all the gegenpressing hype, etc, it was easy to get caught up with the dazzling display when we did well, but when time came to win the necessary matches, Klopp and the team had no answers.
Anyways I truly hope this is the wake up call that Klopp and the team needs whether it is to address the lack of determination, or skill, or tactics in defensive duties, then this will be the watershed for LFC. Otherwise just expect the gegenpress huff and puff and not being able to blow the house down at the end.
Some fair points Sash. I think Hendo is totally over rated and I would only play him in away games as his passing lacks the imagination needed for home hames against deep lying teams.
The point I was making about Lallana/Coutinho is that their ability on the ball was badly missed once we went down to 10. In those situations you need to stay compact, defend well and retain the ball well when you have it. Can, Hendo, Wijnaldum don’t really have the know how on the ball to relieve pressure when the team is under the cosh. In those situations we miss a proper world class possession player like Alonso, for example.
Klopp is a grade B when it comes to tactics, he’s slower than the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho, Benitez in seeing and fixing things when they go wrong. I felt for him a bit yesterday because he went 3 at the back to counter City’s width, but between the lines our defending was poor. He was let down by the players but also was to blame for stripping the side of an outball when Salah was (understandably) subbed. I would have swapped Wijnaldum for Lovren and kept Can in the middle where he can go on his marauding runs. He could also have switched Can for Hendo and replaced Hendo with the Ox for a bit more pace.
Klopp knows what this team needs but I’m amazed he didn’t do something to fix the defensive problems of the team when he didn’t land his first choice targets. To do nothing was probably negligent even if he couldn’t guarantee improvement with new players. Don’t tell me there aren’t better centre backs than Gomez, Klavan and Lovren, for example.
The City game is an aberration in terms of the GA column in league competition, but the way we defend as a team is still a problem that might make top 4 difficult because everyone knows what our weaknesses are and how to target them. It’s frustrating that we could have done something this summer but chose not to. I hope we don’t meet Barca, Real or Bayern if we make CL ko stages especially with the lack of protection in front of our defence. If we meet teams of this calibre the City result may not be an aberration after all.
Henderson has good and bad games, much like Gini, but his panicked defending for the 4th or 5th (can’t quite remember) goal should ring alarm bells. Poor clearance, tried to make up for it by charging to the City player who simply passed it forward into the hole Henderson had vacated: amateur hour.
It’s getting tiring blaming everything and everyone except the culpable. Almost as tiring as the FSG brown noses and the “we’re gonna win the league” lobotomies.You would think our defence didn’t need bolstering in the window.
That is an extraordinarily funny article.
Jury’s out for me ‘re Mane, but the Jon Moss comments very still excellent.