AFTER the shock news that Liverpool have apologised to Southampton and withdrawn all interest in Virgil Van Dijk, Rob Gutmann convenes a special Gutter show with Gareth Roberts, Paul Hogan and Ian Ryan to pick through the pieces.
How did it come to this? Whose fault is it? Where did it all go wrong and how do we pick ourselves up from the floor? All this and more as the stench of incompetence around doing transfers at Liverpool FC overpowers everything else once again.
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What a load of weak Lilly livered tosh from Ian Ryan. Rob Gutman hit the nail bang on. The ONLY happy ending for both LFC and VVD is the Club have to get the deal done. At any cost. By their behaviour and the fact they are repeat offenders, they deserve to pay extra. END OF.
FSG are bringing LFC into disrepute.
Very good discussion. Poor van Dijk is all I can think of.
I agree, whoever is responsible for this shambles has to go, not because they made a mistake but because they’ve embarrassed the club.
I don’t understand how we can both agree that Liverpool cannot win a public auction and criticise them for their gamble of releasing the information that the player has a preference. This was the only move that Liverpool could have made. The real problem is Southampton’s access to evidence of the meeting.
We agree they couldn’t win a public auction, but they didn’t need to brief the press about the player’s preference. Had they opened talks with Southampton without briefing the press, van Dijk’s agent would have been consulted at some point by Southampton (I assume), and the player’s choice of club would have been relayed to them. Liverpool would have known it, and Southampton would have known it, therefore a public auction becomes meaningless as a negotiating tactic, I think. Absolutely no need to brief the press before even beginning talks with the other club. Complete arrogance, ineptitude, and unprofessionalism by the club. Just very disappointing.
Lets be honest LFC fans.What do you expect. Did we really believe we were going to smash the record fee for a defender? It was all BS and a convenient way for FSG to pull out when the figures got too hot to handle. We have form and unless we change our mentality we will always be mediocre. Is anyone a little concerned as to how Jurgen might be taking all this? I bet he’s thinking, ‘what a total shower’. He did the hardest part in convincing the player and it should have been easy to get the deal done from there. The lad chose us over City & Chelsea. When did that happen last? I m fuming at our unprofessional handing of the club over the years. Pay up or do one.
A massive cock up – but you have to be kidding if you think anyone would engineer it to avoid paying a big fee! The club could easily have just stepped away if they felt the fee was going to be too high, and have avoided all the reputational damage, with possible impact to other deals.
Classic Penny pinching Again, lets be serious here if after the meeting between Klopp and VVD they got straight on the blower and slapped down a 60-65M bid, without letting any stories leak out. he’d be a Reds player. Fucking incompetence, inexperience and lack of class. Coutinho must be shaking his head thinking ‘what the fuck kind of ambition is this, I’m headin to Barca’.
Fucking feel ashamed with this club last 3 days, repeated failure to get transfers over the line, every fucking year
Anybody else feel that all the meltdown around this is a massive over reaction? If fingers are pointed, it should be how the story got out. Not necessarily a club issue. A lot of assumptions are being made here. Also, not sure how van Dijk suddenly became the greatest defender in football over the last 6-8 months… Playing for a middling PL team? And, even if he is, so now we just aren’t paying 50-75 mil for one defender. I’m sure there are other a few other defenders out there. Klopp has identified talent before and has been successful with it. Still June 8th, haha, and heads are lost. Enjoy the summer a bit…
I can’t think of a defender in the world that couldn’t be purchased for £60m. Even VVD may yet move.
Exactly!
I think we’re all assuming it’s a club issue because the NW journos broke the story at 5 pm. An embargoed story isn’t a leak, and at least one of those journos confirmed as much on their twitter account. I understand some of the concern over the player’s quality, but the high price is partly because of the fact he’s got 5 years left on his contract. I do think he’s very very good though.
I don’t mind the meltdown, if it appeases Southampton. We’ve embarrassed their club in front of their fans, and they have in turn comprehensively embarrassed ours. I just hope we’re even now.
VvD is one player with a potentially bum ankle. I say keep the 50-75 mil and move on to one or two of a dozen other great players that’d also love to play for LFC.
Also, I don’t even think or fully see how it is all that embarrassing of a situation. Like someone said above, nobody will care in a week’s time and the hundred other top flight clubs in Europe are worrying about doing their own business. Move on.
Hypocrisy… as if football has a code of ethics when theres thst much money involved …. take a look at the bandstanding from the media the football clubs ex players players and agents … its not just one twirp to blame at LFC but the whole circus.. this behavior has been going on for years, its acknowledged then people get up set and put in official complaints, whats that about.” Un gentleman like conduct”. to that lot the FA… do me a favour…if FSG want the player then go pay the price and stop this public haggling.. is salah next…. our owners have set value on players and if they dont get van for 50 or mo salah for 30 then they Will scupper the deal, it will be old news nect week..and its on to the next second cheaper target… grr..the other day i was dancing merely aroud the room now i feel like the lad who has pissed his pants … embarrassing..
And Theresa May can f@#k off too.
I think it’s a big over reaction by everyone. Liverpool is a big club. People gonna write shit because it gets views. More views people get to there articles the more work they get. And if I was lfc I would offer shako n 20 take it or leave it.
The problem was LFC never made a bid… end of… every other issue stemmed from this.
great podcast’s boys keep it up!
Who had the most gain from scuppering this deal? Dejan Lovren?
Richard Ward…. you’re right … Lovren is the leak !!
I read an article earlier this week from Gareth, praising Liverpool and praising the committee’s ‘dark arts’ for tapping up a player. And I completely agreed with that article. It’s good to see Liverpool competing for top transfers, and these dark arts are something any club needs to do to land a top target.
So there were stories on Monday saying that van Dijk had chosen Liverpool as his preferred destination. Nobody was complaining then. This was after someone had apparently briefed the press about it.
I don’t even remember anyone complaining on Tuesday, when it emerged that Southampton were pissed off and were reporting us to the Premier League. We all thought that it was just part of the game.
Fast forward to Wednesday, and Liverpool’s apology and statement that we were no longer interested in van Dijk. That’s when the shit hits the fan. Obviously. Nobody is happy that we’re suddenly not in the race for van Dijk any longer, and it’s another embarrassment.
But I’m uncomfortable with the sudden anger that’s been directed towards Liverpool FC, our transfer committee, Michael Edwards, FSG and even our new CEO (it’s lucky that Tony Barrett was still on holiday and still not started his job). Yes, all of them. Nobody knows exactly who to blame so we fling shit at all of them. Demand that somebody is sacked. Demand that FSG fuck off. Blame anyone and everyone.
Nobody knows who leaked this to the press yet. It could have been Southampton, it could have been an agent, it could have been a player. Everyone seemed to know anyway, and the betting on van Dijk to Liverpool had even been suspended.
I think it’s completely unfair for fans to be happy that the club and manager are tapping players up, and then complaining when we get caught. It’s like encouraging shoplifting, but then everyone suddenly performing a U turn when somebody gets caught.
I know it’s not the done thing, but why don’t we just see how this plays out?
It’s not like that at all. It’s a naive strategy, a poorly executed approach. Tap up, use the dark arts, but don’t take the piss. How often do you see other clubs issuing apologies? It’s absolutely nailed on that they’re using the same methods. It’s not getting ‘caught’. It’s pushing the selling club too far.
I agree that the apology was strange, but I go along with what some of you said on the podcast – that Liverpool thought they had no choice and were possibly worried about a transfer ban. If the apology was issued in order to prevent a transfer ban, then it was the right decision. If Liverpool had not issued the apology, and then got a transfer ban, we would have all said “Why didn’t you fucking apologise?” The apology was a kick in the teeth for us all, but until we know the reason behind it, I don’t go along with “someone should be sacked” for this. But if somebody has fucked up and is incapable of doing their job, then I would be all for it.
As for not taking the piss, it’s easy to say that Liverpool should always pay the asking price if they are interested in a player. But if the selling club are the ones taking the piss, then you either pay it or move on. Nobody is sure what VVD’s asking price is. I’ve seen £40m, £45m, £50m, £60m, £70m and £75m reported. And apparently Liverpool would now have to break the transfer record to get him, which would mean it’s £90m. Every player has a value, and while I agree the buying club should be prepared to pay a few extra million sometimes, there also has to be a limit.
I’m sure that Liverpool wanted (and deserved) more than £65m for Luis Suarez. But that’s all we got for him. Liverpool probably had a higher asking price for him, but if the buying club refuse to pay the asking price, it doesn’t mean that the selling club don’t budge on their valuation.
I think Southampton just want to push the asking price up for him, and this is just a tactic. They can do what they want of course, but this might come back to bite them on the arse the next time they try to sign a player.
I think you’re still missing the point – the ‘taking the piss’ isn’t about paying or not paying the asking price, it’s the briefing the press before opening talks with Southampton, before putting a bid in. General consensus from people who work in football is it’s the press briefing about the player’s preference that sent Southampton over the edge because it was arrogant and disrespectful to them. To get some pride back they made us issue the embarrassing statement, with the threat of the transfer ban hanging over us. We’ve now done what they want. The club messed up on this one, but credit to FSG for agreeing to publish the statement if it fixes the mess we created (fixing = no fine or transfer ban, and van Dijk signs this window).
Southampton could always have asked whatever price they wanted as they’ve been in a better negotiating position all along. And now they’re in an even better position. So in the end there were better ways to negotiate a deal with them than publicly embarrass them by telling the press all about it the way we did. Hence the accusations of incompetence and anger towards the club. But as you say, let’s just see how this plays out.
I know what you mean Amy, and I think everyone has a different angle on this really.
But this press briefing (assuming it was a briefing – rather than anything else) happened on the Monday. And correct me if I’m wrong, but there were no accusations of incompetence and anger towards the club on the Monday. Instead, there were pats on the back for a club and a special TAW podcast.
The anger you mention came on the Wednesday – after the apology. Only then did people suddenly say that Liverpool were wrong to have briefed the press on the Monday. If it was really that much of a ‘shambles’, how come nobody pointed this out on the Monday?
I think it’s because we expect the club to have a better feel for the situation and a better knowledge of how to go about their negotiations. We’re not the experts in this field, we’re just the fans. On Monday we didn’t know the whole story. It turned out that the club hadn’t read the situation well, and you have to at least admit they’re closer to the situation than any of us fans, and should have known better. That it was a public apology is the clue that something went really wrong here. We give FSG and the club credit when they do good things (I think last summer was really good) and we criticize them when they don’t. I also don’t want to criticize the reaction from the fans because I think the fans played their role, because I think that was part of the intention behind the (forced) public apology – if you look at the situation from Southampton’s point of view. In the end I think a lot of this was about optics and pride for Southampton. Hopefully they’re happy now and we can move on to the business part of it.
Arsenal chealsea liverpool and probably man city .. all held talks with VVD .. and Southampton new… of course they did.. its VVD right to go and chat with another club .. all dark arts is just bullshit and part of the problem.. if liverpool would said yes 80 million .. Southampton wouldnt be so moral…beacuse at the end of the day they will be getting the money… Southampton have got no ambition as football club, unfortunately thats part of this corrupt greed filled football model….they just wanted to make money…
Glad all thats out the way upward and onwards to Ben Gibson whose skills… according ro FIFA 17 are a match to VVD but hes a year younger has devloped by +3 more than VVD but is three inches shorter…great…and now where off to sign AOC “the ox” for a record transfer fee…. anyone else thinking its not going to be quite the summer if transfers we expected…