WHAT wouldn’t you burn down now?
Imagine being on Liverpool’s coach coming back down the M62. A set of players looking at each other. A coaching staff looking at players. Loads of eyes on the back of the manager’s head. Imagine it.
I genuinely hope they pull over somewhere, some mill town, some junction of the M62. They pull over and they get smashed and they call each other for everything they can think of, lads are dragged outside, hidings delivered and taken. Each of them deserves it. And then they get back to work. Working for and with one another.
Since the Manchester City game Liverpool have lost so much of their fizz. The sheer exuberance has left town. There have been noises that this was beginning to happen before the Manchester City game, but they scored four against a Stoke side who gambled it all on the first 30. They got a deserved last-minute winner against Everton. They undid Middlesbrough. Even at Bournemouth they scored three and should have scored more, despite the shitshow the game became. I’d have given anything for Bournemouth away today. At least that is easy. At least you get out your seat and give it the big one.
This Liverpool side today could have played till midnight and not scored three. They gave it the smallest one. As ever the effort cannot be doubted. Indeed, this Liverpool side is currently the very essence of toil. By Christ do they toil. They graft like nobody’s business. Truly, they are diligent in their efforts. This was diligent attacking. All the things you get told. It was attacking where every touch was considered, where nothing flowed.
Had they played a little better, they almost certainly would have got rewards from this game. I’d be writing sentences like “despite the valiant efforts of Hull and their manager who clearly has them organised, Liverpool…” They were getting closer and closer to Hull’s goal and had they played a little better and not got the result I would perhaps devote a paragraph to them being unlucky. The bounce of the ball at the moment so rarely favours the Reds. The Hull ‘keeper makes a routine mistake from a corner and he isn’t punished. The Liverpool ‘keeper is for his routine error.
Yet, the Hull lads had gambled. You can’t win a raffle without buying a ticket and Liverpool are so lacking in exuberance at the minute they presume the worst before seeing a situation play out. They react late too often to the random. If you don’t take a chance, you can’t talk about luck.
And they didn’t play a little better. They played a little worse. They deteriorated by the last 20 minutes. It was all happening again. They were looking at each other as it was happening again. Groundhog pricks. You were thinking it; don’t you think they were?
What wouldn’t you burn down now? Look at you there with your matches. I had mine out on 85, head pounding again, wanting to roar at somebody, at everybody. My brain blocked, blood pumping. Verging on spots before eyes.
Jürgen Klopp can burn nothing down. And nor should he. But he finds himself in a very difficult situation where a win at Spurs matters, matters enormously. But a win at Leicester also needs to happen. So much of the progress of the first half of the season now feels lost — Burnley away feels far, far more likely than Crystal Palace away, than even Bournemouth away as mentioned before.
Klopp talks constantly about emotions in football, he wants everyone to feel it. He wants to engage that emotion, make it positive and this is a bold, bold move. Because it isn’t like this gaff and its wider diaspora doesn’t already do emotion. It isn’t as though hearts aren’t worn on sleeves. Emotion snaps back at you when things go wrong. Emotion makes it hurt. Emotion leads people to lash out. At his players. At him, his philosophy, his outlook. It’s not called an emotional hothouse for a reason. The heat hurts. It burns.
All of that would be wrong. These lads remain the same lads, flawed in the way all the football teams that don’t win the title (and many of those that do) are. And when a Liverpool manager stops being himself then the whole situation becomes a nightmare. Been there, done that. On five occasions since 1990, frankly.
It is time to remain cool, time to recharge and reassess. Time to think. Spurs out the way and there is a big, big gap. It hurts, but let it hurt together, not picking out individuals, not looking at ones and twos. Not now. These Liverpool players all scrapped against Chelsea and all of them were on show earlier in the campaign when their output matched their commitment. Now they only have commitment.
What wouldn’t you burn down now?
Imagine that bus on the way back. Seething. Fuming. So very vexed. Let it out, Liverpool. Wallop somebody, wallop each other. Let some heat out of the hothouse.
Sort it out, lads. I’m bang into this till May. You are too. All of you. That’s Kloppo’s deal; that’s the covenant. It’s one I wholeheartedly support. It’s the only way it works.
Up the battering each other in Scapegoat Hill Reds.
(To be clear, Scapegoat Hill is an actual place. Just outside Huddersfield. Google it if you don’t believe me. It isn’t just the place everyone is [presumably] currently posting on social media from.)
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Barring Henderson and Mane, the rest were absolutely dire.Burnley redux.
These lot haven’t got an argument or a fight between them, a team full of coward and shithouses no doubt.
Thanks Andy, but I ran out of matches, and will need whatever it is you are smoking right now to calm me down.
I was expecting a predictable Hull given the past four times teams have parked the bus and countered, but today I was not expecting Jurgen to come with no plan B or plan A or plan E or something that would have us say, you know yeah it’s okay we don’t need the gegenpress etc, today, just maybe sit back and wait for these bastards to come at us this time, or hey why don’t we give Emre Can a break, or not play Firmino as the striker, or whatever else but this load of crap we saw today.
Regarding being on the bus, fucking hell, I would have left the lot and Jurgen behind to walk the fuck back to Liverpool or Scapegoat Hill.
Scapegoat Hill, Peter Gabriel should do a song about that one.
I’m really mad right now, but I will pocket your optimism for later, so thanks for that.
Up the I-don’t-know-what-fuck-to-call-them-anymore Reds!!!
Season is now officially over,we try again next !?!?!?!?
Sorry Neil, I meant Neil…Not Andy…
I’ve seen this film before. It’s shite. Right down to knowing Niasse would score.
When co-commentators can see that Gini > Can, then you know we’re making poor decisions.
“Scapegoat Hill”, man, the poetry of this moment is stunning. I just don’ tknow what to say, I can’t engage with it all right now; it’s too much. Maybe, MAYBE tomorrow. Maybe Monday. Maybe next August.
Scapegoat Hill is just up the road from us. I drive through it everytime I head to M62 to watch the Red Men.
There is a big hotel at the top they could have had a right set too in the car park!
Excruciatingly predictability again. It’s all gone so fucking wrong. I can’t truly go off at the deep end on them because of what they gave us early this season but this hurts bad. We are very much a confidence side and at the minute we are utterly bereft.
It was clear we would press and press and then concede a second ala’ Southampton in the League Cup.
Those heady Autumn days seem so long ago now, but they happened. We all saw it. They can happen again. We have to believe that.
Wrong team again and the manager is showing signs of having favourites. I don’t believe for a moment that Bobby’s a better player than Sturridge, he’s just more of a grafter. I don’t believe that Sturridge is finished either, what he is, is lacking in confidence, the kind of confidence that comes with a run of games safe in the knowledge that the manager trusts you. I could be wrong, of course, but it’s got to be worth giving it a go, hasn’t it? Anything’s better than this shite film repeated on ad infinitum.
#Kloppin
Totally agree with your opinion on the Firmino/ Sturridge matter.
A pill for my eyes pleaseee…..! And quickly !
What was that ? The team with the red was Liverpool ?
For sure team’s worst appearance in Klopp’s era. There is problem and the directors of the team need to take some action.
Professional teams have rules. The head of the club, the technical director, i dont know who needs to bring Klopp face-to-face and make a clear conversation about what is happening.
Liverpool gives about 160m/year for the players’ salaries and they can’t make such disgustingly awful appearances.
There is some problem here.
Worst?
I would say Can, but i don’t think we can rate him at all because he was a true ghost on the pitch. Coutinho gets a 3, the last weeks he has been transformed to old dotardinho and Hendo who looked like a tanker complete the “Holy Trinity” of dreadfulness……..
I am beginning to despise Mignolet. He is a fucking embarrassment. Likewise with Moreno. The second he came on, you just knew it was lost. He gave the ball away with his first touch. If either are here next season, it’s never getting better.
Know what you mean, but Mignolet’s had a fair few good games this season. Albie Moreno on the other hand….there’s no excuse for that man. Shouldn’t be anywhere near the Liverpool first team.
Arguments about overachieving during the first half of the season would be easier to take if we hadn’t been close to success for a while. Look at Leicester. Overachieving manifest. We were literally in touching distance of 2 cups last season. Currently these Reds are so predictable. My vendetta against Clyne continues. All we have for the rest of the season is a scarp for places and a finish below 3rd would feel like a disappointment. And my word we will need to scrap.
Maybe Jurgen needs time on the training pitch with this lot, who play twice in the next 23 days. Train and regroup ffs. I really don’t want to Neil Docking’s tweet about not spending sincerely, but I’m not sure how to go about that at the moment.
https://twitter.com/NeilDocking/status/827928627874525184
Remember you saying after Sunderland that this column would never speak of misery again this season. You’ve got stronger willpower than I do for sticking to that – the reds at the moment are doing just about everything possible to permeate misery. I’m not even miserable, just fucking furious. Guess it’s important to finish the season on a sort-of high, but I couldn’t give a rats if it’s 4th or 6th. Brutally harsh words better be being had right now.
Unfortunately 6th isn’t even guaranteed at this stage – and that is a shocking thing to have to say.
Feels a lot like 02/03 in the pit of my bilious gut. Different eras, philosophies, players etc. But a collective collapse, a sense of futility and inevitability when you fall behind, a system suddenly out of step within and without. From Dudek’s penalty save at Pride Park and thinking this was the year, to chaos at Fulham, calamity against United and a shit-show at Sunderland. Least, that’s how I remember it.
Grim.
Dudek’s save was in 01/02 when we finished 2nd.
“We’ve got a big Pole, in our goal”.
You see…the mind playing tricks. I was bloody there as well.
Klopp somply needs to bring counter attacking into his game plan. In games like this were the opposition are content to sit 10 deep in their own 18 yard box…we should do the same. The worst that can happen is we come away with a point. The best thst can happen is the home team gets drawn out and over confident and we twat them on the break. Im not a footy manager but this seems pretty sensible to me. Its certainly better than pas pass pass pass hit and hope lose posession bang bang bnag 1-0
This isn’t the time to enter a collective meltdown. Yes, it’s beyond the beyonds when you look at this string of results and the culpability is shared in numerous directions, but we need to get a grip, on and off the field. We need to shore it up at the back, no matter who is playing, and get a few wins on the board. Steady things and try and go on a run again til the season’s end.
Anyone on a “Klopp out” tip is an idiot and should be part of the Trump administration. But he’s not beyond criticism and it is, plainly, that some additional work was needed in the past two windows. I’m not one for fantasy football/ITK shite but turning doubters into believers still has to be anchored in credulity. Lovren will never turn into Franco Baresi. Neither goalie is currently good enough. We need more options, and better ones, elsewhere. The fact we’re calling on Lucas, much and all as I like him, in this situation, is bonkers. The lack of a winter break might also have played a role in the recent decline but I think it’s mainly down to Jurgen’s Wenger-like reluctance with the chequebook. I’d have loved his transfer windown scepticism to have been 100% right but it’s pretty hard at the moment to make that argument. Let’s hope we get a bit of luck so the wheels don’t fall off completely.
Don’t we have Scapegoat Hill away in the Cup, next?
There used to be a team up there. A bit like going to Burnley or Hull. You had to graft like hell to get a result. Always cold and windy. Used to get changed in a garage. On current form we’d have no chance.
Did Ian say he done the other bits well and that is why he is leaving and that if he had to stay to build a team then he’d be here forever is it coded or am I making too much of it hmm
Hi klopp and owners need to look at themselves as this team has look bereft of ideas and has looked tired since before xmas just a few pointer:
1) Why is can starting before gini – can no 1st touch and sloppy in possession
2) Why did we not keep sahko instead of lucas playing cback – personal issues affecting team more like rafa and alonso shit that
3) Why didn’t we sign 2-3 players in jan17 just for extra push and don’t tell me there aint no players available
One thing which I pray has not happened is the players having lost confidence in the managers methods and tactics because seriously our style under Klopp is knackering just recently Stevie talked about being wiped out after training is that coded folks I don’t believe in coincidence everything happens for a reason
Stan depending on where you stand is a supposed villain but folks what did he see before saying the mancs were going to finish above us because he said it when we were very good so what did he see at the time to see our alarming decline because at this rate you won’t bet against him
The Kaiser recently said we rushed into giving Klopp a new improved contract when he had not won anything then we went on a player tieing down spree folks what is going on is not new we’ve been here too many times yet everyday we are supposed to be optimistic this is not optimism it’s blind faith folks and faith without works is dead
I’ve been reading a lot about us not having a plan B but I think the trouble is we have a plan A against footballing teams and a plan B against “lesser” sides that doesn’t work for us. Plan A is all fire and passion and “we know these can do damage against us so let’s not let them.” And we are in their faces and we gegenpress and we say “you are dangerous and we will not let you play. Not against us. We are Liverpool.”
Against the “smaller” teams – we have lost 11 points against bottom six sides – we decide to become more patient, more deliberate in our play, less instinctive, less “you can hurt us and we’re not gonna let you.” Swansea were bottom when they came to Anfield , Hull were bottom when we visited their gaff, and both teams progressed up the table at our expense.
Plan B is pass square, probe left, probe right. No pace, no attack, no “don’t play us and expect any favours”, no “you are bottom, we don’t care; you should stay where the league says you should be”. 4-5-1 with the 1 making a 6 ? So ? You cant live with us. We are Liverpool. We attack, attack, attack attack attack. I think we think “we’re Liverpool we can probe and play and surely it’s gonna come soon”. But it doesn’t. We need to play against Hull like they are Chelsea. Chelsea play against Hull like they are playing against us.
Think Hull , think Watford, think the reigning champions in the Autumn. Think Stoke…Think pace and confidence and above all think dismissal of these upstarts. Think we need to show you we are better than you. And go out and show them.
Plan B ? We have a plan B and it doesn’t work.
Can someone look at the passing stats of say Leicester at home and match it against Swansea at home? How many passes did our centre halves make against Leicester compared with those made against Swansea ? I bet Lovren and Kavlan made more passes against Swansea than Lucas and Matip did against Leicester?
Plan A, attack and press and let the top 6 have the ball. Forget plan B where the back 4 have the ball.
Up the plan A reds
So much to say, but lost for words. The fun is gone. It hurts. Rinse and repeat every year. Same story going into every summer… 4-5 players away…
Worrying this hasn’t been sorted yet. Worrying that Klopp hasn’t changed things. Need a change of formation rapidly. How many games have we failed to score in now?
Sell Benteke. Ship out Sakho. Pocket the cash. Need a goalscorer. Need a centre back. Sound lads. Sound.
All blame must rest with Klopp. Massively underestimate the league.
All blame rests with FSG for a mid table transfer policy. These shitehawkes need to sell if we are going to progress.
Kudos to you Neil for energising me after that . Keep it up
I’m a believer.
In Sept I booked the Hilton for the last game of the season. This season. The season when the last game was to matter. I live 30 miles away, but I was going to ensure that I was in Liverpool for all 48 glorious hours of this weekend.
Through Jan I held firm.
Tonight I’ve cancelled the reservation.
We are the softest bastards out there at the moment. This doesn’t matter when we’re ripping teams apart and are a complete level above, but recently it has been so evident.
The next team, and it won’t be a long wait, a team sits deep against us and asks us to break them down, we need to just stop fucking playing. Just keep the ball. Tell the opponents we’re fine with the draw and they can fuck right off. If we’re away they are bound to have to come out eventually, and then there will be some space to attack.
If I have to read the words: ‘plenty of possession but no real chances created’ in relation to us once more then I’m having my eyes out with a rusty spoon.
“It’s not the despair, it’s the hope I can’t stand…”
Absolutely shite….since when did being able to run a lot with no consistent end product warrant a nailed on starting place. Had a perfectly good striker on the bench who gets no consistent 90 minutes in order to get a goal streak going. Sorry but Klopp is never going to bring a League Title to Anfield. The comment about managing in Scanner danavia may come true at this rate. The team and manager are just not up to scratch and constantly pissing about with the starting 11 is not fucking helping anybody……
We’ve got to change something up with the formation. The only way I want to see Can again is part of a back three. If not a back three, we should switch to a diamond or something. This seems the definition of a “foolish consistency.”
Honestly, even if Draxler was rubbish, I think all of us could have used the bounce from such a signal of intent.
And how does Klopp watch the opposition manager make change after change and not react when we remain so toothless?
Hate being a grumpy fan, but one win in 10 seems a bit much.
I would quite like to see Moreno given the chance to play on the left side of the front 3, just to try something different. He can’t do any real harm there and he can’t be trusted to play anywhere further back really. Who knows, perhaps it could be the making of him? Give Woodburn some more chances, as well. It’s the only way to rest players and it gives the opposition something new to think about. Give Firmino at least 3 weeks off. Actually, haven’t we been shit ever since he got arrested? That happened two days after his house got robbed. Imagine being young, on the other side of the world from your hometown and all that happening to you!
If Moreno is in the team I’m not going ! After his Europa League performance if I had been the manager he would have been told ‘You will never play for this club again’ JK was very quick to ditch Sakho and yet will persist with this waste of space. Expect him to be sold at a £10 million loss or loaned out to a spanish club in the summer.
As Klopp said its a combi of all attitude, confidence and luck but without trying to change to plan b when it is not working doesn’t help…he has his fav players and fav formation but at times when we have team play 10 players behind we need diff players diff formation…he has to change it he has to be flexible and do out of the norm…although he is German and they Are known to be meticulous and rigid but we need to be innovative and dynamic…so please Klopp we love your emotions your leadership but not your rigidness …
When will I watch match of the day again.
That was as bad as it gets. Not once did a pass find a striker on the move going past defenders. All to feet neat n tidy bollox. All huff n puff not blowing a straw house down. The killer us the squad isn’t big enough to make much needed changes in personnel. Is the manager now big enough to make much needed changes to how we play.
Again over 70% possession with no edge. To beat us, just watch us pass it around. Wait for the sloppy pass, beat our weak defence and feeble keeper….Easy as that. We are free falling out of the top 4, which is exactly were the profits are. Contending for 4th place with the cheapest, leanest squad. The problem is our owners. It’s been bad under Hot Ayre, who was at least a fan. It’s going to get worse when fucking John Henry employs a Mike Gordon. We are Liverpool under FSG. We should be grateful our owners keep us above the Blue Shite. Really fucking grateful they saved us from bankruptcy. Fuck FSG.
I’m a shithouse. you’re a shithouse. Shithouses
What’s so frustrating is that the Reds seem to be punished everytime for 1 mistake whereas if the opposition make a mistake they are not. How does that work?! Everytime! Maybe we should take a different approach when playing away against a team outside the top 6. The onus is on the home team to attack and entertain your fans not us. We’ll sit and hit you on the counter attack. We are better than these teams, let’s show them.
Up the Work in Progress Reds!
Chelsea would have to fall massively to balls it up from here. Conte walks in after the Euros with barely any preparation and bar a few iffy games quickly identifies what is required a solid defence, same as Leicester last season and the system used for the majority of Utd’s title wins in recent years. Klopp was supposedly using last season to identify the weaknesses and has still not rectified the situation. Sort the bloody defensive side of our game out first and foremost. Rather a scrappy 1-0 than some of the results we’ve seen which historically do not produce title winning sides….oh and use that fella with the No15 on his back consistently he’s not too bad a finding the net you know, Jurgen.
We need to change the words of YNWA from ‘Dreams are Blown Away’ to ‘Dreams are thrown away ‘ A poor defence a dodgy keeper and a team and squad not of the required standard, these are issues we all have known about for sometime. Worryingly JK appears to have no alternative in game or away game strategy. The club has posted huge profits, signed up massive commercial deals, takin in money from players sold money but bar for Mane has not been re-invested. I’m convinced the club is being primed for sale. I’m a lifelong supporter but this is a club and owners profiting on it’s glorious past.
I came across this that was extracted from Borussia Dortmund subreddit post after the Hull match. It’s been hard to take these past few matches, so I at least I need to set aside my furstration, anger and have some patience to think about things. This helps a bit.
Please give this a read and let me know what you think:
“Now I want to quickly state this isn’t a call to be positive, or a post to call out those who are cynical. We all handle defeats and bad form differently. Some of us are pessimists, and thats fine, while others are overly optimistic, but that’s also fine. The point of this post was to get the views from the Borussia Dortmund fans on our situation. The consensus is that our squad isn’t that good, and we might not make top four. However, from their experience, we should be prepared for that, as it took them a while to get going under Klopp as well, and they were on the fence over players like Lewandowski and Mkhitaryan initially. We should prepare for some horrible results up ahead, yet, we should also be prepared to celebrate success. I’d like to apologize for any comments that might portray the fanbase as overreactionary or anything like that. You guys are the best, and there’s a reason why I come to this sub after a victory or defeat. Lets just wait it out and see what happens, and enjoy the ride. We’ll cuss out Emre Can and Simon Mignolet together, and we’ll drop our jaws at a Coutinho beauty together. It doesn’t matter what happens, because we still have a chance. Let me know what you guys think about the rest of the season, and a huge thank you to the Dortmund fans for taking out their time and letting us know their opinion on shit.”
1) The reason Jurgen Klopp doesn’t change his tactics is that he wants to play the team into them. He has the ability to tinker, as we saw against Man United and Man City, but won’t do it often to ensure the players really get behind the system. Maybe this means our players still haven’t adapted to Klopp’s playing style completely yet. Credit to /u/Loeffellux for that one.
2) If a player doesn’t one hundred percent buy into Klopp’s philosophy, he’ll get sold. This tells me that despite what we want to think, Daniel Sturridge probably doesn’t have much of a future here.
3) I found this one the most interesting: /u/Icantrememberlogins wrote that if a player looks shit, but Klopp believes in them, its worth being patient. He cites Schmelzer, Lewandowski, and Mkhitaryan as examples. This would probably be why he keeps selecting Emre Can, who has been garbage this season, but has looked world class in the Europa League games last season. I’d still play Gini personally, but Can isn’t going anywhere, because Klopp sees potential in him. While some of you may scoff at that, keep in mind Mkhitaryan was hot garbage until his last season at Dortmund, and Lewandowski didn’t become a regular starter until Lucas Barios left the club.
4) The BVB fans back Klopp to turn it around and get us into the top four. /u/TheTrolledOne thinks that Chelsea have just been too good for anyone this season, and that they’d probably win the Champions League if they were in it. I’d probably have to agree with that sentiment, because keep in mind, their entire starting XI bar Moses and Alonso have won league titles before. Meanwhile, outside of Milner, no one in our squad has lifted one of the major trophies of UCL, Premier League, or FA Cup before. We’re going through a major rebuild, and unlike City or United, we haven’t had any form of success in a major competition for a long, long time. /u/MrMountainFace says that even though clubs like City and United have top tier managers and have invested in world class players with their money warchests, we’ve still outperformed them thus far. He says we will stablize in time. Honestly, this really caught my eye, because while City and United have played out of this world at times this season, they’re currently in the same boat as us in terms of being in the middle of a rebuild. Their players have struggled for consistency throughout the season as well, which is why players like Kevin De Bruyne and Paul Pogba have been missing for large parts of the season; they’re not one hundred percent used to the manager’s tactics yet. It could be a reason why our players have dropped off recently as well.
5) They’re not a hundred percent sure what to make of our players. /u/Jonhl15 wrote that the absences of Coutinho, Mane, Dejan, and Matip have made us look a lot worse than we actually are. However, /u/Icantrememberlogins says that there are very few players at the current LFC squad that he’d take at BVB, which is a fair assessment imo. As to whether they’re good enough to finish top four, /u/MrMountainFace says we’ll have to hope tactics work and let things run their course.
6) Finally, /u/Icantrememberlogins mentions that City, United, and Chelsea are all under greater pressure than us to finish in the top four, considering their pedigree and success in recent years. There’s a high chance we won’t make top four, but that isn’t our focus is it? He writes that Klopp will obviously attempt to win every trophy, because that’s the type of manager that he is, but right now, he’s still working towards getting the right squad and giving key players minutes to ensure their consistency. We don’t have all the right pieces, but look at how long it took for Coutinho to become a world class player (and after today’s performance, debates over his consistency are going to start again). Origi, Emre, and Karius have had moments, but they’re going to need minutes and experience.
#YNWA
“Dreams are blown away” is not a phrase that is part of the lyrics for You’ll Never Walk Alone. However, it reminds me of a similar comment from Hansen about LFC needing to change the words of the West Ham anthem to “We’re forever blowing Doubles!” (post Wimbledon Cup final). Chance would be a fine thing!