I THOUGHT this was going to be my glorious return. Where I get to wax lyrical about footballers with hilarious ditties after a wonderful victory. Instead the Reds were a gang of dickheads. Almost like they did it on purpose. Fuck off, Liverpool.
Loris Karius: 3
Feels generous. If you start at 0 and build up where does he get points? But I work up and down from 5 so Karius is saved. Which is the first time that dickhead and saved has been used in the same sentence.
Nathaniel Clyne: 5
Maybe harsh but my overriding memory is him coming short in attacking positions. Blast into the Anny Road end was one. Chip into the ‘keepers hands in stoppage time the other.
Joel Matip: 6
Was brilliant until he wasn’t. He’s both unlucky and frustrating for the second. It’s a mad deflection but he still should do better. But the least of our worries.
Dejan Lovren: 4
Poor, then went off. Needs to be careful not to turn a bad couple of games situation into a “sell that lad” situation.
James Milner: 7
He’s an extra attacker, never mind an extra midfielder. Movement terrific. Application unrivalled. Corners could be improved.
Georginio Wijnaldum: 6
Nothing wrong but not enough right. A couple of controls and shimmies in the box but couldn’t quite get a shot away.
Jordan Henderson: 7
I have issues with his captaincy. I think leadership was massively lacking first half. But, judging him as a footballer, he did well. Purposeful passing and must have thought he’d scored the winner.
Adam Lallana: 6
Started like a train, and a lovely finish for the opener. Was great having that extra man in the box. But his decision making was strangely off and some of his passing frustrating.
Sadio Mane: 6
Involved in the action but still leaves you wanting more.
Roberto Firmino: 4
Shite. Plays well with certain players. Can’t just swerve it when his mates aren’t playing. It’s not the park.
Divock Origi: 6
Rubbish first half. Strong argument he limits the team. Yet he would argue he scores every game. Every game. What do you say to that?
SUBS
Ragnar Klavan (on 45′): 7
Great, wasn’t he? Cruyff turned a lad and everything. Maybe should have started last week. But one for another day.
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Klopp – 2
There’s a reason those lads are sat behind you with full kits on under their coats Jurgen.
Good shout.
Problem is the bench looked rather limited for proven match changing players.
Interesting there are 60 comments so far on this. Love how a shit result brings everyone together.
Karius’s last game as a Red in 2016. We can but hope.
He might yet come back better. Stronger. With wrists that don’t buckle. But that is for another day. A day in 2017.
3 is kind but reasoning sound.
Been on Clyne’s case for some weeks now. He is always decent, rarely makes a mistake. A costly one anyway. But he leaves you wanting so much more in the final 3rd, which he gets into often. He’s no stranger to it. He’ll never whip a ball in like Milner, instead he will get into positions to play others in with more close range passes between the opponent’s backline, and, he will have a few shots every game, which are hardly ever on target. The way we play facilitates that, and with Milner chipping in with his deliveries and pens, Clyne needs to think of a way to make something happen. Hardly our ‘biggest problem’ today, but rarely looks to provide a solution either.
I never thought I would say this but Mignolet has to go back in. Karius has been an unmitigated disaster. We can’t ruin the season just to save his confidence. He has had an extended run of games and has failed. If he is not mentally tough enough then sell him in the summer.
Klavan does seem to have been written off after the Burnley game but is great at penning sides in. He always looks to win the ball back high up the pitch. Had a great game earlier this season when he and Hendo were winning everything in front of the half way line.
Seems to have a bit of pace about him too, could be great next to Matip as we cold play a high line. Lovren lacks a bit of pace.
Karius is really good at getting us moving, which is a relief after years of Mignolet’s indecisiveness, but he doesn’t look quite right. Doesn’t seem to like using his arms and hands which is a bit of a problem for a goalie.
It’s all about opinions Paul but I don’t see that. If anything, I think he dithers and has average distribution.
So you don’t remember mingolet keeping hold of it for so long he actually gave away an indirect free kick?!
Average? He put a goal kick out for a corner. A corner!
touché
Really harsh on Firmino. Shite? Come off it. He’s better through the middle sure, but with Phil out Origi comes into the side and can’t really push him out left.
Firmino was shite.
Went missing for 90% of the match.
Karius is costing us crucial points and Klopp’s stubbornness is doing him or us no favors.
Take him out for a few games and try and work this thru.
I do not want to see a shaky Karius in front of a rabid Gladwys Street in their Cup Final next week.
Thought Matip, Miner and Mane wherever good today.
My biggest concern is the seeming inability of Klopp to close a game out or influence thru impact subs.
3-1 up at Bournemouth and shut up shop ffs! Who gives a fuck about entertainment!
Conte did just that today at 1-0 up on 75 mins vs WBA. Fuck what the crowd thinks – we want the points.
Woodburn should have been given a chance around 70 mins as Firmino was strolling.
Fuck off and watch Chelsea then, prick
Another no nothing bluenose masquerading on here, hey James ;}
Amen James. Better through the middle. To call Firmono shite disregards everything-runs and defense-he did in the game.
Accurate and succinctly put. A depressing day by we move on. Hard to know what to do about the ‘keeper but he is on borrowed time. Meanwhile, back to the bar…
Agree with most of your comments John but not the 6 for Mane. i thought he was excellent!
Sound mate. He did some good stuff. Maybe I just expect more from him
Agree with most of that. I cant get my head around Origi tho. I can’t remember now if he ever had a touch a pass or won a tackle. He seems less ‘suited’ to a front three than Studge. I thought Hendo was ace if not a little lacking in bottle. He looks like a player playing for the numbers. Maybe try the dodgy through ball every now and then. Lovren, well for me he never left the get rid bracket.
Fully agree with those. Karius is awful so there’s nothing to be said there. I’m a Clyne fan but he stunk today. Firmino was awful.
I am genuinely sick of Sky Sports and Jamie Carragher going for Loris Karius. It has become a real narrative that frames their coverage of us. Yes, he made an error, but for Carragher to slaughter him for it before saying that Randolph’s error was unfortunate and shows what ‘the life of a keeper’ is like is disgraceful punditry. I expect no better from Redknapp, who will just agree with whoever or whatever is sat next to him, even if it’s a toaster or something.
Carragher then had the gall to say the difference between Randolph and Karius was Randolph redeemed himself with a save after his error. How many shots did Karius have to save second half Carra? He still made a brave charge from his goal-line and left Carroll covered in blood. Not many keepers leave much on Carroll.
I believe that Carragher doesn’t like it because Karius dared to stand up to him in the press. He is a Liverpool legend and I would like to think he wants our new keeper to do well, but it almost seems he likes him struggling because it gives him and Gary Neville something to mutually rave about.
Matip class, Lallana class, Mane class. I like Bilic very much.
Something needed to replace the “can’t defend corners narrative”, which was proven to be bollocks. Foreign keepers are always given a hard time by the media. Joe Hart gets away with a lot because he’s ‘England’s number 1’, even though he’s mostly average.
Absolutely. Sky’s coverage simply isn’t insightful so they need a series of cliches and narratives to rely on rather than try to be nuanced in their assessments.
The poor lad Karius doesn’t seem to have a supporter anywhere apart from within the club. It’s a real sad state of affairs watching a club legend on the tele tearing strips off our new keeper, but then many of our legends tend to go that way. Absolutely zero mention of Karius’ commanding punch away from Carroll. Went right through him. Carragher doesn’t want to credit him now because he has a personal vendetta against him. As for the assertion they went on to make about the second goal, there is just no way any keeper other than Karius is going to get criticised for that. What on earth did they want him to do?
You make a good point about Hart. He dropped clanger after clanger until that nasty foreign keeper Bravo came in and all of a sudden Hart hadn’t made those errors and was brilliant again.
Now Phil Neville is saying Karius should have ‘shut up’ and not done the interview, despite Mark Chapman explaining it was pre-booked. The cretin then went on to say Karius should have kept quiet. Some fucking interview that would have been…..
So basically he and his brother want that naughty foreign keeper to keep his mouth shut while they tear strips off him? Bless little silly billy Philly on the tele trying to protect his big bro.
Feels like Southampton again – albeit at a much lower level of performance. 2pts drifting away while the manager sits on his hands. Just do something. I would have taken Clyne off with 20 to go. He is a wonderful fullback but he is bog average as an auxiliary wide player. Switch Milner and give mad Albie a run. Or TTA. Or switch Firmino and Origi. Or play Origi at auxiliary wide right and bring on Woody.
Or something, anything to impact the drift. This aspect of our otherwise excellent manager is frustrating the life out of me.
Yeah I was wondering why Klopp hasn’t considered Milner at RB and getting Albie on when the game’s going like that. Maybe doesn’t trust Moreno not to do something crazy and lose the game, but it is a bit infuriating. But, if we’d snatched it at the end we’d probably be lauding his faith in the players. Juergen still probably knows more about this management lark than me!
In terms of snatching it at the end, I agree with Sean Rogers that you have to judge on process, not results. I didn’t agree with the ‘goal was coming’ assessment of Southampton and I didn’t agree with the lack of action yesterday. That is not being wise after the event, I was screaming at the tele in both games.
Being wise after the event would be to say that I knew Adam (no end product) Lallana, Milner and Hendo would flourish in new roles. Klopp has been proved very right when most of us thought he was wrong – and I am one of Hendo’s greatest fans. As you say, he knows a lot more than any of us, and it is refreshing that we can express views of a manager without being on ‘a side’ since nobody in their right mind would not want him as the manager. He has made us such an attacking weapon that the absolute greatest tosser, I mean manager, in the history of the universe had to park an 800 million quid bus in front of our goal and still rely on his keeper. Total tactical genius to pick a keeper mind – we should try it.
What did Lovren do wrong to get 4? And how does he get 2 less than his c-h partner who shares responsibility for the second goal?
Not having a pop – just curious.
He was awful for the Antonio chance. Terrible defending. He was shocking for the first goal. If he hadn’t turned his back on it it wouldn’t have gone in. He’s as much to blame for it as Karius if not more.
Regarding Matip. He was brilliant. I’ll be honest, I always comment on how I see things and not what others are saying but I made a mistake on the Pink comments. I said the second goal was Henderson and Matip’s fault. I was going on what I was told by friends re: Henderson and thought it looked like Matip was at fault in real time. Seeing it back on MOTD Henderson wasn’t to blame for the deflection and as a centre half myself I understand how when the ball deflects like that it can leave you completely wrong footed. Initially, I didn’t see the deflection. Matip should have scored double what Lovren did. He’s a weak link as much as Karius.
I was hoping a few hours would provide some clarity on how the hell we find ourselves in this situation. But mostly I’m just increasingly annoyed at the points dropped. At Klopp’s bench. At the fact that there were times when we looked exceptionally deadly, and times when we looked devastatingly blunt. I can’t even blame Emre Can. But, on the other hand, Instagram Boy has done his best to make me spend the week hoping Migs is back between the sticks. Which is not how I prefer to spend my holiday season. So, I’ll just remember that we are still in the CL spots and will probably stay there. Probably.
Bah Humbug!! Strange game this. Somewhat appropriate ratings then?
Oh well, they’re just ratings.
So…West Ham were there for the taking, instead we continue to allow teams back into it because we’re feeling generous again. It’s Christmas time after all.
The 12th man needs to sing new songs that sound more like a fighting, rousing chorus instead of drunk person’s lament of a last drop from his bottle of ale.
Anyways the positives for me:
– We managed to come away with a point compared to City and Spurs.
– We got to see Matip play again – barring that unlucky deflection and poor positioning by Karius for both goals – Matip played very well and nearly scored.
– Hard luck with the header off the crossbar and Hendo’s brilliant shot saved.
I have some questions:
Where is the depth in the team? Everyone and their mother’s been boasting about the depth in the squad, etc, etc. So Couts, Sturridge and Ings injured, where is the depth to build up from other areas?
Why does Klopp continue to use 1 sub when the regulation allows for 3?
Has anyone thought about the problems regarding goalkeeping may actually stem from the coach, John Achterberg?
What’s with the poor corners? I mean what do these guys practice on the training ground and what do they eat these days?
What has happened to Firmino? Off day again?
Do Clyne and Winaldum know how to finish chances? Are they included in practice?
Other than this, we’re still clinging to top four. With reinforcements in the transfer window we might be able to give that top spot a run as well.
Middlesborough will setup to disrupt the flow. However the reds need to stop with the Christmas time good cheer and just send them packing.
Carragher, Rednapp and Neville can all fuck off.
Up the Reds!!!
I just want a keeper who can save things. Karius clearly ‘isn’t right’ and Mignolet has had his chance. If Klopp doesn’t want to buy a new keeper in January then would it be worth bringing Danny Ward back from Huddersfield. All the reports are that he’s doing well and he saves shots which for a keeper is pretty crucial. I don’t want the lack of a competent keeper to cost us a crack at the league
Stuns me that people are still talking about selling Lovren. That is frankly astounding. Firmino getting it in the neck too. Heads go soooooooo easily.
Depends mate. If you’re happy with Liverpool not winning stuff then keep him. Some of us aren’t though and it’s absolute fact that 2 positions in out starting 11 could and should be strengthened. For the rest, they may have off days. It happens. Luckily, Klopp seems to have the attitude that he wants Liverpool to win stuff. Last season there was loads of praise for Jordan Ibe. A player that did nothing in a Liverpool shirt. I agree it’s a pathetic way to look at it but it’s true that football is a multi billion pound industry and as a result there’s no room for sentiment. If someone’s not good enough then they have to go. You can’t be dragged down because fans are weak with their loyalty.
Nobody is happy with us not winning stuff, least of Klopp as you said. I am just not comfortable with writing a player off 10 games in or whatever Karius has played. I know absence makes the heart grow fonder, but very few people rated Mignolet either and now there is a clamour to have him back. It’s not about fans being weak with loyalty as we don’t pick the team, I just fundamentally disagree with creating an oppressive environment for our goalkeeper.
I appreciate that many fans have made their minds up on Karius already but I don’t see what good slaughtering him can possibly do. Klopp has already bollocked Anfield for getting on player’s backs this season. I see no harm in backing those that are in the side. You don’t need to think someone is good enough to back them. Utd fans erre booing Fellaini today. Now I detest that player as much as anyone, but that was a really ugly sight.
Agree with most of that Dan but people want Mignolet back as damage limitation. We all feel we can go close this season. Now isn’t a time to carry passengers in the hope they come good whilst dropping points.
It’s a funny thing though mate, you’re right, it helps no-one to slaughter him. I think I do it because I’m sick to death of seeing people defend him (not talking about you here). I saw last night that they were now blaming Achterberg. The keeper can’t stop the ball going in the net. That’s not down to coaching. Coaching effects the way crosses are dealt with but not shots straight at it that he spills or they go under him. What I’m trying to say is, my view is much as this helps no one I think it’s frustration and a backlash mainly because of those defending him. I think if they stopped saying he’s fine then I think I’d stop wanting to criticise. Daft but true.
No I completely get that mate. I don’t think anyone can reasonably say he wasn’t at fault for Payet’s goal as he clearly was. Achterberg has been getting it in the neck for years now but that seems a little desperate for me. The whole point about us having a real chance and not affording passengers is absolutely true of football at the highest level. We need to be a trophy-winning club and I believe we have the right man at the helm to achieve this. Despite yesterday I categorically wouldn’t swap him for any manager going.
I was spitting feathers yesterday over not getting the win. I think I had gone as mental as I can remember for a long time and behaved like a complete idiot throughout the game. I got tipped totally over the edge by Carragher knifing Karius and then defending Randolph’s horror show error has ‘one of those things that happens to a keeper.’ That spoke of a vendetta to me.
On the plus side we look seriously purposeful going forward and there was no real question of us not getting back on terms at the very least. It is becoming expected that we will always break through and that is something that I have not thought about a team in a very long time. It makes it easier to accept set-backs because on the whole we are doing the right things. However, we really must adopt a bit more pragmatism at times i.e. when in control of a game. Equally, we absolutely have to stop dropping off teams when we are dominating. If games are so easy, which at times they are, then go and get 5 or 6 goals rather than dropping the tempo.
To be honest mate, I’ve not seen Carra defend Randolph but what I would say is one or two mistakes over a few months is to be expected from a keeper, they’re human after all. One or two per game is not.
You’re right though mate. It’s not the end of the world. I was arguing with friends last night. They couldn’t wait to stick the knife in because they’ve put their neck on the line by slating everything to do with the club because they don’t like FSG. So by me saying we can win this league it’s offended them. Yesterday, they tried to ridicule my assertion from a few weeks ago implying I’d lost the plot but I stood strong. We will bounce back and we’ll be in the mix come April. It’s frustrating because the last 5 points dropped were avoidable and I think we’re all worried it’s not the end of the story there.
‘It’s frustrating because the last 5 points dropped were avoidable and I think we’re all worried it’s not the end of the story there.’
That’s almost certainly true. We go mental as fans because things seem to happen to our side that don’t happen elsewhere. It seems absurd because we are so good, but it does feel as though only we could have pissed that Bournemouth game up the wall.
I would really like to see us stop conserving ourselves when we have out foot against an opponent’s throat. If we are on top we should look to thrash sides as it sends a message to rivals and is superb for confidence. This is not really the sort of league where you get on top and just sit off revelling in your dominance.
Worryingly accurate about Firmino. Can we sign whoever his best mate was at Hoffenheim to play with him when Phil is out injured?
This sort of thing happens within the course of a season. We have still been playing reasonably well.
yet from all the comments you’d think Liverpool are fighting to stay up. Season after season, every team, even the top teams have blips, drop points. We’ve dropped a few and now people have the knives out. Our start to the season has been one of the best starts for a long long time. It’s how we react now, Wednesday night can’t come soon enough.
That’s right. We have been brilliant so far this season.
The comments are perfectly valid for a team that has dropped 5 pts in the last 2 games, one from twice blowing a 2-goal lead and the other against a team that has been really struggling. I personally don’t care about anything other than winning the league. Cups and top 4, not arsed. I have only realised this season about how much the long wait is affecting my enjoyment of LFC. Win the Prem just once and it will be so much easier to take the good with the bad.
I can’t even be bothered to waste energy. This game was drflating, we need to be crushing these sides anywhere, let alone at Anfield. Absolute rubbish today. We need to sort whatever it is out.
Gibbo thank you for your description of Karius. Seriously made me laugh out loud
I’m glad someone took it as a joke!
On a positive note we’re still in the top four, we’re still above Man City, we’re only six points off first place and we’re just approaching the half way stage with the top sides yet to come to Anfield. I would have taken that before the season started and I’m happy with it now. There’s still a long way to go and I think we’ll look to add a bit of depth in January to stay the course.
However, I would like to be a bit cheeky and point out that for the first goal Lallana was the one who gave away a free kick on the edge of our box, in a central area, knowing full well West Ham’s best chance of scoring would be through set pieces (given that they had Payet on the pitch). I personally think he should be docked a point or two for putting our much maligned young keeper under that sort of pressure given the week he’s had. I know Lallana scored today and I think he’s a great player but he was just as guilty as Karius for the first goal. He should never be making that stupid foul in the first place it’s completely brainless. Yes Karius should probably do better having got a hand to the ball, but in my opinion that’s the hardest free kick in football to defend against as a goalkeeper, and to be fair it did go in wall side. The only way you stop that from going in the net is by not giving away the foul. In my humble opinion of course.
The Lallana point is very valid. We really need to start managing situations a little better. You have to weigh things up. Obiang is a not a dangerous player in an attacking sense, especially on his left foot. It would have made more sense to pass him on or jockey him away than foul him. We knew how dangerous Payet is so we really needed to avoid giving him a free one 25 yards out.
I’m not getting at Lallana as he is a high intensity player, and it was just a bit hasty. He is a superb player and so important to us.
While completely true, there are times when you need your goalkeeper to help you out and that was one of them. However, if he doesn’t save it but comes out and collects the second and makes at least one save last week then we drop 2 points and move on still in sight of top. To drop 5 points in 2 games because nearly every shot on goal goes in is killing us and the teams confidence.
He is obviously struggling with the lead weight of the shirt. No shame in taking him out of the team and bringing him back in the cups in that case. I’m sure if he can get his head sorted out then he will be fine as he must have done well in Germany, but it is not going to get any better the way things are going.
Told you about Klavan the other day. Fuckin’ boss! As for the rest of football, piss off (for now)! Nothing’s over yet, but bloody hell do the points dropped while playing like the best side in the universe seem fucking stupid right now.
That isn’t a top 5 side.
Karius looks like the a 3rd rate striker they have grabbed from the bench and given him the gloves when the proper keeper has been sent off! We are starting to look like a ferrari on remoulds!!
To those advocating Moreno: if Albie’s the answer, you’ve got to ask yourself what’s the question?
This is the second time in his Liverpool career that Mignolet has been dropped for an inferior goalkeeper, and one of those was Brad Jones, so he is clearly not the answer here. We have to face the fact that we currently have two goalkeepers, neither of whom are good enough. One of them has had 3 and a bit years of trying to convince that he is, and failed. One has had a few months and has shown little or nothing to build belief that he may be good enough at some point in the future. Unfortunately, football matches are not played in the future, they are played in the here and now, and in the here and now, he is not up to it. Shopping in January for a big chap with big gloves who stops things with them and doesn’t frighten the horses, please.
Good on Didi for calling Caragher out. He needs winding in does Carra. Same for the cretinous Neville brothers.
Absolute legend is Hamann.
Firmino rarely convinced when played from a wide starting position last season. He has looked excellent this season when playing through the middle, but has returned to the rather neutered version we saw for 12 months now that he has been shifted back out to the sides to make room for Origi. Interesting that when Sturridge played with Firmino, it was the former that was shifted out of the centre. I think we need him back in the middle from Wednesday. It sounds odd to want to move a centre forward who has scored in each of his last 4 games, but I think he detracts too much from the strengths of others when he plays there, and I think he can do good work down the sides.
Agree with that, feels like we have compounded the Couthino injury by using his mate in his position,
At the same time Origi has scored goals centrally whilst only playing ok,
Div out left maybe ?
Very short on cover for both Couthino & Mane.
Sucks aye. But despite the majority view that karius can’t learn on the job etc it is quite clear that he can and is (well, not sure how much actual learning he’s doing). I get that it’s frustrating after doing so well to see the points dropped but it is quite clear that the current squad is still a work in progress. I can no longer be bothered to loose my shit because my expectations aren’t always realised on the pitch. I do agree though that Bobby is a much more interesting and dangerous player through the middle. should have been 6-2. Hopefully get back to winning ways in the week… Much more of this and we will be eyeing top 4 as a target :(
Mignolet is mid to lower table standard. Always was and is. Karius? Klopp knows what he bought but we are not seeing it. Is it possible his broken hand has affected him and his subconscious is instinctively holding him back from repeating the damage? We all know it can take a season or more for the body to forget bad injuries as our bodies have inherent self-preservation instincts. Hope it’s that and it goes because if we’ve little faith in him – the team must have absolutely zero – and that makes everyone’s job harder. It breaks down this system we have BASED on confidence to control games. I don’t mind shipping excellent goals- but some of these are taking the mick. Between that and short of a consistently good CB partnership – there could be trouble ahead.
Further upfield- it’s not great balls of fire but we scored 5 in 2 games missing key forwards in each so I wouldn’t panic.
Origi played his best support forward play so far and was excellently synced with Mane so that’s a good sign.
Gotta take Middlesbrough.