EVERYTHING in the garden is rosy. We have Jürgen Klopp as manager. We’re gonna win the league.
Oh, hang on a minute.
To what extent have we actually strengthened? Is Klopp capable of managing his pruned squad into contenders for the title or, if you’re not that bothered with the glory game, the empty chalice that is the top four?
P.S. It is early days, I know, but we’re 11th. Are we destined for another season competing with the also-rans?
I find myself oscillating between these two moods. Why can’t I be consistent? Because I’m a Liverpool fan and I want to win. I’m in no mood for hanging around and as a supporter first and foremost, my emotions aren’t always a bastion of rationale.
After Arsenal, I was bathing in the light of the rosy garden. After Burnley and Spurs — where five points were ceded frustratingly to title rivals — I have stumbled into a darker room. I detest deadline day with a passion but when the transfer window slammed shut, my eyes and equilibrium also adjusted to the dropping of an opaque blind.
Examining the Reds’ summer transfers, the hard facts of the matter are that Liverpool FC is in profit; only two Premier League clubs with a healthier summer balance sheet. This at a time when the eighth richest club in the world is awash with cash from a TV bonanza.
Making my guarded views public, via the insane medium of Twitter, brings out not so much the FSG apologists — though they do feature — but the staunchest of Klopp advocates.
Wails of “It’s what Klopp wants” and “It’s what Klopp did at Dortmund” most accurately sum up the defence of our cautious summer activity.
While Liverpool struggled during the middle third of last season, fans castigated the legacy of the players left at Klopp’s disposal. They bemoaned the timing of his appointment and insisted with a cull, his own men brought in, a punishing pre-season, and time to drill in his methods on the training ground everything would suddenly improve.
It’s an understandable argument given Klopp’s recruitment and development of young footballers at Borussia Dortmund and their high-intensity style which brought consecutive Bundesliga crowns. But, is Klopp the only manager in the Premier League capable of instilling high-octane fitness into his players? Are Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, and Antonio Conte, and dare I say Ronald Koeman, not also adept at coaching the best from their players; training their charges to realise more than the sum of their more expensively assembled parts?
If leaving some blindingly obvious gaps in the quality of the Reds’ squad is “What Klopp wants”, I’m struggling to get behind that. Most supporters would admit there is a clear issue at left-back. The manager himself recognised that in dropping Alberto Moreno in favour of James Milner.
In his recent interview with Gary Lineker, Klopp explained that he doesn’t want questions from players asking why they’re not in the team; explaining the obvious conclusion is that they’re not good enough. So, think of another question Albie, other than “OK, why am I still here, gaffer?”
Most would agree that Milner at left-back is a sticking plaster; a plodding right-footed midfield yeoman in a modern game that demands pace from full-back. A dubious improvement on a fleet-footed leftie prone to suspect decision-making.
I hear from fans that Klopp “Won’t spend money for the sake of it”, which alludes to there being no upgrade at left-back in world football available at the right price.
If that really is Jürgen’s opinion then I’d prefer to see the German adhere to his development philosophy and coach improved positional sense into Moreno. I’m not fussy on the alternative; to persist with honest medium-pacer Milner who was caught out by a long ball in the build up to Spurs’ equaliser last weekend.
If the left side of defence is the most obvious area to stick the boot in, we remain short in other positions. Cover for Nathaniel Clyne on the opposite flank appears non-existent and if Mamadou Sakho has been told he won’t play first-team football again this season, then we’re an injury or suspension away from Ragnar Klavan having to erase his Burnley nightmare from our consciousness.
The Burnley reverse also asks questions of the driving force and creativity in a midfield three of Jordan Henderson, Gini Wijnaldum and Adam Lallana. Perhaps the eventual return of Emre Can partially resolves this issue, but if Liverpool had any real desire to go into the red during the window then an inventive bona fide midfielder with scope and pace to go past his man wouldn’t have gone amiss. Proven players of this ilk cost money and therein lies the rub.
What are the alternatives? How do we ensure a consistent spread of goals across matches, rather than racking up the occasional four or five when we’re allowed to play?
To me, unless Klopp envisages a diversion from false nines and/or one up front, the Reds will always struggle to create chances against teams who recognise our counter attacking strength and happily defend in numbers or “park the bus”.
Compounding concerns over breaking teams down (Burnley) and converting superiority into goals (Spurs) — home and away — is a confused picture up front. Danny Ings looks short of quality and opportunity and Divock Origi (still a novice) is struggling to recapture last season’s effervescence. When we do inevitably revert to fielding a stock-in-trade goalscorer, Daniel Sturridge remains, by a distance, the best poacher on the books.
Aside from the obvious — that his body no longer allows work-rate prerequisite for the Klopp pressing game — I’m struggling to make sense of the manager’s handling so far of a clearly disgruntled player; unless he legitimately feels that Sturridge with a point to prove is in his most potent mindset.
It seems increasingly fanciful to imagine Klopp and Sturridge not locking horns. However, following on from his omission at Arsenal, a stint on the right against Burnley and a needless snub at the hands of Origi and eventual 88th minute introduction at Tottenham (after goals in midweek at Burton) the only wonder is that a “surprise” Sturridge departure wasn’t the late gatecrasher to SKY’s deadline day party.
I constantly hear that Klopp “wants to wait” for his preferred targets and doesn’t want to spunk money like Brendan Rodgers. Bundesliga lads Mahmoud Dahoud and Christian Pulisic possibly fall into this category as we fiddle while another season burns.
Don’t hold your breath for January. The modern Liverpool FC has an array of excuses for waiting, particularly in winter. Two league titles shrivelled on the vine of January inertia and neglectful reliance on David N’Gog and Iago Aspas.
For transfer window balance, Sadio Mane, a long-held Klopp target, looks a fabulous signing. Wijnaldum shows promise as a midfield runner, supporting counters in the mould of a Terry McDermott. Joel Matip — on a sample of one league game — looks a classy centre-half. Loris Karius, arriving with a reputation much bigger than his transfer fee, still has to forge his way past an improved Simon Mignolet. Each acquisition has Klopp’s fingerprints all over it and for that, at least, we have to be thankful.
But is that all that Klopp really wants? I beg to differ and I hope I’m right.
I really want to win the league but I’m not convinced we’ve tried hard enough to achieve that this summer or even establish a bridge to challenge next year. Klopp — or the club (whatever that means these days) — might be happy to wait, but I’m not. Do you what you can and do it now.
I’m not going to apologise on anyone’s behalf for thinking that careful recruitment and development is what FSG want and they have a happy coincidence that Klopp views himself of the arch proponent of that strategy. It might work in this league — or it might not — but too much is being gambled on a wing and a prayer.
Perhaps at the root of all this Jürgen has been told to keep schtum. His paymasters might have had a word. Six year contracts are good for apparent stability when prospective suitors are sniffing around.
When we take our Liverpool FC and Jürgen Klopp blinkers off, maybe we look at a long list of departures –offset by some potentially prudent first-team investments that keep us competitive — and accept our transfer strategy this summer wasn’t all about the football.
However, as much we want to believe in Klopp wanting to play it his way and still win the unfair EPL game, our 2016 recruitment was more about respectfully taking part than the winning. Admirable soundbites pertaining to an ethical way of working in this game of dirty morals have been swallowed hook, line and sinker.
FSG might soon have another, more extensive profit to calculate from their portfolio. Analyse those healthy balance sheets again and ponder that eyes weren’t fixed exclusively on the glory this summer but instead cast to the riches of the Far East.
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“Klopps transfer strategy”… Hilarious.
Klopp was given a small list of available players willing to come here and who were affordable. Show me a manager who wants to save money in the EPL.
The only strategy that exists is a financial one. The profit strategy.
Everything this corporation, I mean club, does is profit focussed.
And as customers, we only have to decide whether the product is worth paying for…
YNWA.
The club has been losing money for years. There is no ‘profit’.
We were in profit on the year last year and are between 2 and 7 m on profit on transfers alone this window.
Given we are in the top ten richest clubs in the world , with over £280m a year turnover, a squad worth not much more than West Broms, how can you seriously suggest we are not in profit?
You can toad and gobble FSG all you like, but we have been in sporting decline since they arrived
In profit last 3 years
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-record-60m-profit-10972653
But what about that magical 300M that everyone goes bleating on about? Could it be that this number is completely meaningless because it doesn’t account for 1) Rodgers having to sell to buy, 2) annual wage packets in comparison to rivals (i.e. Markovic and Pedro both cost the same in fees, but very different chunks of the bill each year), and 3) many of those players were FSG investments (the Ilori masterplan).
I thought recently on two players – Wilfred Bony and Michel Vorm. The GK looked a much better fit for Rodgers’ philosophy, but at 4M was deemed too costly (unlike the points Mignolet has cost us). Unlike Balotelli, Bony was wanted by the manager, but FSG wouldn’t pay his wages. How much did *that* cost us?
We’re 3 games into the season and have played some really good footy in parts, get yourself off Twitter and pull yourself together Mike
Seriously Tom, am I to banish myself away because you might not agree?
I wouldn’t normally respond in comments but you don’t even explain or expand.
It’s not remotely critical of the manager; just that I don’t agree that the signings reflect the extent he might want to purchase more new players and/or those of a higher standing.
Where I do have an issue is with Sturridge.
Sorry Mike, I didn’t mean to offend and definitely wasn’t suggesting you banish yourself away. It just that the bubble that is twitter churns out all this anxiety and negativity that seeps into the supporter base and it drives me batty. Take Deedee’s comment below for example, the panic everyone is getting in because United have signed Ibrahimovic and Pogba is absolutely bonkers and becomes self-fulfilling. It’s 3 games in and they haven’t played anyone yet.
I’ll admit that I was surprised that we didn’t sign a left back this summer, but I am happy to wait and see what Klopp manages to get out of Moreno and Milner before getting on his back about it.
As for Klopp being a smiling salesman to cover for the lack of funds from FSG, I don’t buy it in the slightest. Apart from it seeming completely at odds with how he comes across, why would he put up with that situation when he could walk into most jobs around Europe, let alone sign a 6 year contract?
I’m sure they would have said to him, look we have a budget of X per year for the next 6 years go build a team like you did at Dortmund, and he has decided that after weighing up all the considerations that paying over the odds for Chilwell or Hector wasn’t a good step to get us there, simple.
Also, everyone has forgotten about Gomez. I know knee injuries are difficult to come back from but he could definitely provide cover for RB or LB
Gomez done his knee within days of Ing’s doing his.
Ings is deemed still not fit enough.
Gomez has also injured his Achilles, each individual injury is tough to recover from nevermind both together.
Gomez is still not injury free.
I’d be surprised if he starts a game before 2017.
Ings isn’t deemed good enough, not that he isn’t fit enough, which isn’t surprising since he is our 4th choice striker. I didn’t remember gomez’s injury being that bad (it was tendinitis not a rupture) so I spent 15 min searching around for and update and found one from before the burnley game saying that he was expected to return next week. Given that there haven’t been any more updates I assume that won’t happen but it doesn’t sound unreasonable to expect him back before 2017.
I’ve come to a similar conclusion to Mike, One that we haven’t done enough since the end of last season to close the gap on our rivals.
Yes, we have improved, but so have they.
In relative terms, its doubtful we’ve gained on them over last season.
It looks and feels to me, like there’s plenty of work still to be done before we find ourselves in a position to challenge the top four.
Its a far more reasoned and plausible assessment of LFC’s current state than many others have expressed and led us to believe.
How much of Milner and Moreno at LB back do you need to see?
It’s not just LB that deficient either, the whole defence is nowhere near last eight of the champions league. And if top 4 and competing in the champions league is out target, do you think any manager could build a defence in two windows?
Of course not. Competition in the champions league is not our target. Top 4 is with the cheapest possible squad is, because it is the most profitable way to run a club on the EPL.
Fuck FSG. The sooner they sell the better.
Is this the same Sturridge who is constantly injured? Can’t rely on the guy and he has lost his pace. Good option for home games where he can goal hang.
we’ve played about 60 minutes of ‘good football out of a total of 3 games. Not great is it.
How does that matter in the slightest? Utd have probably put together 30minutes of good football so far in 3 games and they’re sitting on 9 points.
If you are going to be down about 3 games in which we deserved 6 points from arsenal and Spurs there isn’t much I can say. The Burnley game was poor but a bad performance against a newly promoted side early in the season isn’t unheard of. What I would say is go watch the video of Shankly in Neil’s article and imagine what he would be saying. His team got tonked 5-1 away to Ajax and he fully believed they would overturn it at Anfield. That kind of positivity is infectious and powerful, and the opposite will turn you into Everton.
Klopp is the laughing,smiling,charming,plausible con man who dupes old ladies out of their savings. Man U will win number 21 before we win number 19 that’s for sure but at least the books look good
Correction: ManU will buy number 21 before we win number 19…The books do look good though. :)
At last, an article that doesn’t pander to the ‘rose tinted glasses brigade’.
I was losing faith in TAWs ability to cut through the BS and give us an honest assessment.
Thank you… and sorry you’ll now have to wear the barbs of the zealots.
Mate, take it easy, 3 games in, we did plenty to win them all (I know we didn’t but that’s sport and we’re not a Maureen boring side) – so let’s have some respect and a little patience – spunking big money doesn’t always work and we’re not in the CL – therefore let’s take the long team view of klopp and give him a chance. Most would agree that we’ve improved over the summer (I know it’s relative) and the early signs are good despite burnely and a draw at Spurs. As ever , chill the fuck out, trust in klopp and enjoy the ride.
“If that really is Jürgen’s opinion then I’d prefer to see the German adhere to his development philosophy and coach improved positional sense into Moreno”
Don’t you think that might be what’s going on? And its better to coach him on the training ground rather than away to Spurs?
Exactly.
As for the rest, there is really no way of knowing whether improving the squad while being in the black is a lack of ambition or something that will allow us to spend large on the 2-3 players we want next year that maybe aren’t available now.
Though of course its social media so just take your existing view of the world and say you know for sure it means this that or the other thing.
Mellor and Spearing were both saying about how players need to be flexible, be able to learn new positions, new systems – on the TAW show Pro View
Yet, if Klopp is trying to do that, and sees it as his way forward then its wrong.
hundreds of players adapt and move position – no-one is commenting on Lallana in a new role because it’s pretty much working. But try it with someone else with limited results so far then its a fucking negligent oversight and all involved should be shot.
I don’t know what two not particularly versatile, not particularly successful ex-LFC pros have to contribute to this topic, so I don’t know why Mellor and Spearing are even part of the conversation.
Re “Millie” getting done in by a long ball to the wing, clearly the entire back four had shifted to our right. The full-back is not expected to be able to anticipate any and all possible switches of play off a long diagonal pass and manage to cover it/them, independently of the flank player in front of him covering. Not all crosses will be blocked or deflected and failure to do so cannot be single-handedly assigned as _the_ crucial defensive failure.
I have a lot of time for Mike Nevin’s “downside risk aware and averse”, sober, at times cynically realistic, approach to LFC. Still, I do believe this article errs too much on the side of pessimism and alarm, in light of the facts as we know them.
Right, so two ex-pros who have played for the club are not qualified to give their opinions. And yet, you feel the need to give yours. Odd that.
If the defence had all shifted to the right where was Clyne for the goal? I agree, whilst Milner is a good pro his lack of pace will count and against him.
All full backs get caught like this sometimes. Every goal conceded there is a mistake somewhere. I thought he was excellent at LB
‘Has Jürgen Klopp’s Strategy Made Us Title Winners Or ‘Contenders’?’
I’d argue neither
It’s made us profitable.
It’s not about spunking the cash – it’s about the future and a long term view of the team, plus what we’ve got and potential. We could spend all of our wedge and end up with shite – ala ballo – this is real life and not a computer game!
On the contrary, competition in the prem and CL is about “spunking the cash”….just look at the teams that win consistently.
Long term? We are worse now than when FSG bought us. Slipping further behind every season.
This team has no long term future. It’s Average and it’s future is getting older and slower.
According to you, I get the impression that nobody including FSG, Jurgen, etc, can do right.
So what would be your solutions to turning us from Average to Great?
H&K doesn’t have a solution, he just gets his jollies from trolling this board and FSG.
The solution is fan ownership and regaining pride. If FSG have proved one thing, they proved the fundamentals of the business are sound and the club can stand on its own two feet. If we are going to be mid table, and the owners are not going to invest, what the fuck are they doing here?
Otherwise, we need owners who can afford to inject the cash to compete in the modern game.
Toads and gobblers like David Murray might be proud of being a mid table donut franchise, but many are not, so don’t fucking speak for others.
Fan ownership or New owners.
I think it’s been a fairly decent window, though obviously not perfect. We’ve added a better centre back in Matip (I believe) than Lovren and Sakho (who I like, it’s hard not to) but even with his daft behaviour taken into account, I do not believe is as good as some make out. He’s undoubtedly capable of a great performance, but it seems, only once every 3-4 games. I think (Burnley apart, where hardly anyone shone) Klavan has looked solid enough. Karius looks a good keeper, who’s very presence appears to have galvanised Migs’, and who looks like becoming first choice. Mane, great so far, more than great to be fair, and Wjinaldum who, though finding his feet, is looking tidy. With Emre to return, hopefully pushing Hendo’ forward and Lallana (much underrated by a lot of supporters) looking good in the slightly deeper role, we’ve actually strengthened our first 11-14. How many times have we done that in recent windows? The only time I can remember is the Coutinho, Sturridge window (did they arrive in the same Jan’ window, not sure, think so though?). We also have Grujic who could be a rough diamond. I know everyone is going mental over Left Back, but let’s not forget what a very, very good, and versatile player James Milner is. I think it’s very harsh to criticise him for Spurs’s goal. When you study it, there were bigger mistakes from Lallana and Mane. I think a lot of people may end up surprised at how good a left back Milner could become. Yes, he doesn’t have Moreno’s pace, but he has a fantastic engine to get up and down all game, and is much better defensively. On Moreno, I think there is a player there who, if Klopp can develop him defensively (tackling, positioning) has a lot of the tools needed for the way we play. Bit sick of people ragging on Milner to be honest, had the best numbers in the squad last season, one of the best in the league. Plus, what’s this obsession with left footed left backs? So many sides play with inverted, or just plain, ‘righties’ at that position these days.
I do agree it isn’t ideal at the moment, I would’ve liked Dahoud, or Granit Xhaka (obviously though, Wenger had developed a relationship before we were even briefly linked).
As for not enough coming in, how many times lately have we bemoaned the fact we’ve brought too many in? Hopefully we are progressing so that each summer we only need 2 or 3 quality players in, which was the old Liverpool way. This side, for all it’s faults did reach two cup finals (one European), and it’s pretty safe to say, would’ve made 4th, or at worst, 5th if priorities (rightly I think) had not been shifted in the run in. Anyway, each to his own, I believe Klopp is building, over several windows, and not drastically, all at once. I’d give this window a 2:1-
“Perhaps at the root of all this Jürgen has been told to keep schtum. His paymasters might have had a word. Six year contracts are good for apparent stability when prospective suitors are sniffing around.”
that’s not a nice thing to be levelling at their door. Really, that’s a fucking poor thing to be insinuating.
KM1806
the key word is ‘perhaps’. It’s one of those words that allows people to take a guess, venture an opinion. Maybe Mike is wrong, but there’s certainly enough reason to justify the suggestion (ie, massively underwhelming transfer window IMO)
If we castigate writers for merely proffering an opinion all we’ll be left with is official club PR bullshit
sure mate – I understand. Just didn’t like the insinuation. It feels like it takes the transfer conversation off into a much darker, and not nice, place.
For me, I don’t get the fuss around the window. Its as good, if not better, than Spurs or Arsenal.
Frankly, had we signed a LB (to appease the masses if nothing else) none of this would be up for discussion.
Whole-heartedly agree Mike and like you I have no hope of change in January. I think Klopp would have had a larger budget were it not for the need to get the Main Stand loan off the books in time for the equity sale. Feels like an opportunity missed given that Conte, Guardiola and Mourinho are building new squads this season and will be better next year for it. I am sick of being 6th, 7th and 8th.
the cost of the new stand is buttons mate. That will not affect any sale or part investment. Nor will having cash in the bank from a transfer surplus.
Anyone telling you it will affect things is frankly bending you over.
Corporate have already said that the new stand will pay for itself very quickly over the next few years.
Whether you choose to believe them or not is another thing.
Someone has got that Friday feeling! :) Three games and the world is ending hashtagthemodern’supporter’
Agreed – reactionaries
Some cynicism being expressed that this is part of getting the books in shape for selling the club or at least a chunk of it.
The thing is FSG are not going to sell the club, or a substantial chunk of it. They have been crystal clear on that.
Some journalists and so called “reliable” Twitter faces are going to going to be trying to explain away the stories and tweets they have put out. Except they probably won’t, because they will just move on to the next rumour, with no one holding them to account for spreading absolute garbage. (No sign of Simon Hughes expressing any embarrassment about the rubbish he wrote about last China takeover rumour)
The only sourced on the record accounts about the supposed deal are FSG saying they are not in discussions and have no interest in selling, and an Everbright CEO saying that Everbright are not involved in any such deal.
When it becomes clear to people that no deal is going to take place, there are going to be whole lot of fans looking to blame FSG for spoiling there dreams of supporting a club with unlimited resource, rather than accept that they have been played for a media desperate for content and clicks.
FSG have not been crystal clear on that, far from it!
Ok – crystal clear obviously means something very different to you.
I think an on the record interview where Tom Werner states the club is not for sale, says they would only entertain a small equity investment in the context of wider commercial deal (eg. naming rights), says that they are not in discussion with anyone, then reiterates that the club is not for sale, is clear enough for me.
“The thing is FSG are not going to sell the club, or a substantial chunk of it. They have been crystal clear on that.”
Which is it?
It’s crystal clear they’re not gonna sell even a chunk of it or they would only entertain a small equity investment?
Far from crystal clear I’d say.
You seem to be struggling. If you read what I have written a few times, I’m sure you’ll work it out eventually. Best of luck!
Struggling to explain it yourself eh?
Only time will tell!
For those tearing their hair out, who do you feel we should have bought? Alonso for left back at 23M? James Rodriguez? David Luiz? Pogba?
Exactly, Alonso had a Transfermarkt value of €9 million in July but a desperate Conte paid £23 million for him.
Thanks Mike. I finally feel like someone gets me! I have a few questions:
Would we be showing a profit if you count writing off Mario Balotelli as a loss?
Would we have signed the players we did in this window had we beaten Sevilla and qualified for the Champions League this season?
Do you think Klopp is resigned to making the most of this squad strictly for a domestic campaign, hoping we can offer Champions League next season, then go after his ‘preferred’ targets next summer?
Could this be the reason he was given a bumper deal so soon? ‘Help us balance the books this season, clear out some dead-wood and we’ll back you to the hilt the following season because you’re our guy for the long term’.
We’re 3 games in, we’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly. We were by far the better side against Spurs, and showed a great element of control for long periods. Add ruthlessness and we’re in business. I go as far to say that the Spurs performance is perhaps up there with some of our best under klopp. Relax everyone and just enjoy the journey
“we’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly…Relax everyone and just enjoy the journey”. Agree with you Matthew.
Does anyone have up to date information on Grujic? Seems to have disappeared off the radar.
He is still very raw (he is only 19 and is coming from the Serbian league). Expect him to feature in some cup games but not in the league for a while yet
Does this all stem from us not purchasing a left back or defensive midfielder ?
Bad bit of flapping going on here lads ain’t there. I pity what poor old Ronnie Whelan would have suffered if the twitterati had existed back then. All managers have players they like, despite the vast majority of fans thinking there shit aka Alberto Moreno. You need to suck it up and see what the season brings then you can call it where the season has fallen short, but that ain’t after 3 feckin games.
3 games, they didn’t even used to publish league tables until after 3 games a few years ago. Who you buy is all subjective shit as well. We do not know what chemistry Klopp is seeking to turn his core team into extra special, he knows the lads inside out and he will be looking not just for a big name or prestige signing. Prem clubs have spent over a billion £ and I bet there ain’t a single player who has moved our fan base would agree was totally right for us.
i normally really like your pieces Mike but I am gonna excuse you as it is a poxy international weekend and that pisses everybody of :-)
The squad needed whittling down so he can train a group to go out and run for him rather than the diluted efforts of managing a larger group with too many egos.
A couple more high profile players would be a risk when there’s no Europe. My guess is Klopp has the money available and is waiting to spend at the right time.
The players he has are equipped to carry out his style of play, timed bursts of bedlam mixed with dropping back and containing.
We’ve had a great start if you go by a rule of 10 assessment. 6/10 we win at Arsenal, 7/10 at Burnley and 6/10 at Spurs.. Burnley was a freak, we got caught on the 2 errors we made. Extreme bad luck (and keeper who can’t save anymore)
Yet to play at home, bossing games, lots to be positive about. The scores will soon start to reflect the performances. The performances will also get better.
Thanks, Mike. Enjoyed that spot on.
Three games played . Isn’t it a bit early for all this negativity and conspiracy theorising? Go on, at least give the team a chance. How can you make judgements after three games, three away games in two of which we outplayed close rivals ?
Anybody else excited about how good we are going to be when really find our rhythm and sharpness?
“but too much is being gambled on a wing and a prayer”
I’m not sure what the too much is. Too much has been gambled over the years when we have consistently sold our best players. Now, klopp is not even a year into his tenure and he needs time. For me it’s got fuck all do do with what he did at dortmund, that’s the past. In a few years an accurate judgment can be made about his ability to take Liverpool forward.
Whilst there could well be lots of truth in to this article the point is speculative but will surely be enjoyed by the conspiracy theorists.
Hilarious. I was willing to go along with the premise of Mike who clearly has a deep, deep sad, but he actually wrote:
“Loris Karius, arriving with a reputation much bigger than his transfer fee, still has to forge his way past an improved Simon Mignolet.”
Only a wanker would write that a GK with a BROKEN HAND has yet to forge his way…….oh, christ what a gobshite.
Ok so in basic terms you’re saying we should’ve signed either more, or bigger and better… who?
Which first XI-enhancing player would:
1) Come to us in the first place with no champions league and facing and uphill battle against ridiculous money clubs to get champions league next year
2) Not demand ridiculous wages that may upset the dressing room
3) Would play the Klopp way and fit into the system
4) Actually be a real-life possibility
ALTERNATIVELY… you’re talking about making more ‘small’ signings, but would these actually improve our squad or simply make it ridiculously big for the amount of competitions we’re in this year
So why are we mad that we’ve come out making profit? we’ve signed a decent amount of players who could very well be improvements. Not sure money should have a factor on that. Aside from a left back (on that – Klopp knows a hell of a lot more about morenos development that us) why should we randomly spunk more money up the wall just because we have it? And when has that helped us before?!
I don’t understand the need for harsh personal comments. I happen to disagree with Mike’s assessment but support his right to express his opinion among friends.
Remember, as LFC fans we have one thing in common – we all want this majestic club to rain supreme again.
YNWA
Mike, incendiary stuff. Arguably you have a point – if Chinese investment rolls in valuing the club at over a billion then it’s hard not to conclude that the lack of splurging/player clear-out was at the very least a happy coincidence. The only thing I’d say to temper the argument is, like it or not, the regular lack of CL action is probably harming us when it comes to player acquisition. It’s like a negative rollover jackpot, and particularly in a transfer window during which fees were inflated beyond belief. The fullback from Fiorentina that Chelsea signed? Would he have signed for us? Maybe, but there was the Conte factor there, plus €2 5m seems a bit OTT.
I’m not sure there’s a right answer here other than back all the lads and hope Klopp and Sturridge come to some kind of understanding which leads to the latter blaming in 30 odd goals for us. Then if Grujic is the new Boban (because every young player needs to be a ‘new’ somebody), we’re sorted!
Either klopp is a puppet of FSG and being told to help balance the books.
or
Klopp the manager has decided he is happy with what he has at this time.
I am pretty sure klopp isn’t going to sign a 6 year contract without assurances on transfers etc and not a chance he would be anyones puppet. So it has to be the second one.
SO – all fans will have an opinion different to klopps and all other fans (which is fine). But as fans i don’t think we should take ourselves too seriously after all looking at us compared to klopp (or any other manager of a top club) is embarrassing really.
Klopp vs typical fan
Klopp – years of being a player, coach. Proven track record blah blah blah
Fan – Works in Sales, but was best player in his comprehensive school u15’s until he discovered cider. faded out to sunday league until 25
Klopp – Works full time with LFC 12 x hours a day including how the players are training, what fitness condition they are in, attitudes are like, any off field issues. etc etc
Fan – watches every game (sometimes have had 5 or 10 pints), and reads all online stuff etc 5 hours a week max
Klopp – Has a full team of qualified professional covering everything from performance analysis of training and games, future opposition, scout reports. Most of these degree qualified in individual disciplines. All working full time!
Fan – Has his best mates who he drinks with in the pub and occasionally the wife
I don’t really need to go on here. Don’t get me wrong All fans should have opinions, that’s what football is about but ffs lads. Lets not take ourselves too seriously. Not only do we not have a clue really . We don’t have 1% of the information, resources that an already massively superior bloke has than us!
As for origi coming on before sturridge vs spurs i think it was because we were 1-0 up and they were pressing so he wanted to use origi’s superior pace, movement in the channels and workrate. But what the fuck do I know.
Stay happy reds. Lets re-assess at end of the season and see. I can’t wait for every game if i am honest
Fan-Pays significant sums of money to watch his team and is more of a customer in FSGs eyes
Klopp- Is paid £7m a year by FSG
Fan (Customer) Has endured disappointing window after window where short term profit is put before building a long term competitive sqaud. Were young players are bought in the hope they can be flipped for profit like Suarez and Sterling.
3 games in? We were watching try his squad for the past 3 seasons
LOL! You should write for the TAW.
Spot on ..that’s the perspective we should be keeping. Come on you Reds !
Thanks
Everyone can post their opinion but please lets not get back to the pre-Klopp days when negative comments dominated the websites.
3 games, all away, 2 at top 4 clubs from last season, is definitely no time to make judgement calls
My glass is most certainly half full: We still have a World class Manager and the early signs (to me) is that we have greatly enhanced our squad, although still far too early to judge
The difference this pre-season is that we have finally got the hang of getting good money for the players that we have sold and that is the main reason we have made a profit, rather than a reluctance by the club to spend.
Lets judge the situation after at least 15 games not this knee jerk reaction to 1 bad performance
If your cutting Milner some slack, than surely Moreno can be cut some
to, sure he stuffs up at times but if you look at 2 defensive blunders
against Arsenal, one was caused when lallana was dispossessed in an
an attacking raid whilst he was heading upfield, Moreno followed suit
down the left to give support, Arsenal quickly passed it catching him out
as he cold not get back on the double, good reading of the game from
Arsenal. Secondly were Hendo skewed a ball high into the air infront of
our box which was basically a misshit, I don’t anyone knew where it
would fall, unfortunately it fell on Moreno’s flank to an Arsenal player
who ran into the penalty area were Moreno after getting a touch on the
ball felled him resulting in a penalty.
There’s too much negativity already 3 games in especially to Klopp and FSG. Personally I’m 100% behind both and Zi hope FSG will resist the Chinese millions and not make our Club, our Culture, another plastic fc, mercenary city, or a money united heartless entity.
In Klopp we have the best. No other manager currently in the Premier League could have done what he did at Mainz and then Dortmund against EVERY odds imaginable including losing his best players to his arch rivals and super- monied monsters year after year. Only 3 other managers in the past could have achieved what he did- Shanks, Clough and (dare I say it- AF at Aberdeen before money united and even there too I’m afraid). And on what??! After winning the Bundesliga 2 years running and beating Real 4:1 agg to get into the CL Final v Bayern- his team value was £30m!! That includes £15m spent on recapturing Reus sold from Academy 3 years prior.
This guy is it. He has whittled the squad to a manageable size to take them to another level- something you can’t do with 40 players looking to play. His blueprint is excellent for what he expects to achieve victories. He’s not wasting money on LBs that’re not there now to give him what he demands- so he’ll create his own like he’s done before. Plus, plus, plus HE IS LIVERPOOL through and true too. He’s nobody’s fool.
I love his signings, I agree with his holding of certain players. He’s right on Sakho. He’s right on Sturridge. He’ll get Moreno right for wing back and winger with Can or Lucas dropping back between the CBs. Milner’s more than able and Gomez to do the jobs anyway.
Let’s drop the doubts. The owners are masters in this game of running clubs successfully. They’ve gotten the Man they’ve always wanted. He’s ours and us completely and if ever anyone can emulate Shanks- he’s doing it already. Give him the time or even half of it that we’d have given Shanks to turn our big ship around. Versprung Klopp Technik!!!
YNWA
Thanks Peter! Best comment I have read on this site since Klopp arrived. Patience and time to give Klopp to do his best.
We are a donut franchise. How plastic does it get? Owned by an American sports investment enterprise who only care about profit and return. The word “investment” being a clue.
There is zero pride to be had in FSG owning us.
We are Liverpool Football Club- not a donut franchise. Dunkin Donuts are a commercial sponsor who give us more than peanuts to spend on our club and should be respected like all our other sponsor.
Yes, we are owned by an American sports investment enterprise- the same as money united. We are not a plaything of bored Russian billionaires who gives out plastic flags on match days, nor an interesting project to play high stakes poker on mercenaries funded by oil-rich Inheritors from the Middle East.
I’d much prefer us to be owned by the types of people who took on the sleeping giants Boston Red Sox and dragged them back into baseball folklore to the envy and admiration of the world. Call me old- fashioned but I’d prefer a sporting investment firm with the specialist skills necessary today to make the most of what we have than leaving it up to a Hedge Fund Manager on the Board of a Chinese finacial investment firm.
These boys always wanted Jurgen- twice they came calling but his integrity, contracts and love for BVD held him back until he ran out his last contract. Then he waited on Bayern’s Pep decision (as he always publicly said he’d love a shot at BM). They dithered in October allowing Pep to leave his decision until Christmas. Jurgen said fuck that- I’ll not await on Pep G to decide MY future- so he let his agent send word out that he’s available to talk to Liverpool. And there FSG got their man who they couldn’t get before (and gave the job to BR with a Transfer Committee to hold the fort in the meantime (and nearly upset the apple cart by giving us our best football and hopes in 25 years!:-))).
So Jurgen’s in. He gave EVERY LFC player a chance to prove themselves unlike others who’ve dismissed kids and legends at other clubs without a hello’goodbye’kiss-me-arse’nor’nuthin’. He was fair and decisive. He bought players not superstars, yes- but I like the cut of their gib.
He’s prised the Top Medic and also the top Nutritionalist from Bayern as he always wanted the energy in his team’s in April that Bayern had from these boys’ methodology. He’s got the closest thing to the Boot Room I’ve seen in Buvac and Krawiest – pals and guys with management badges and experience that’d get them top clubs in Germany and Europe immediately.
FSG have stood by their words to date with the Stadium rebuilding, getting in the players, getting the sponsorships and commercial deals to make the Club viable again after the 2009 meltdown where we almost went into Administration!!
You know- eaten bread is soon forgotten and it wasn’t so long ago that even clubs outside the top ones also looked bemusingly at us. No more. They know we’ve the guy. They know our owners are not smoking what they do at the Emirates. It’s time to sit back folks and not throw darts and dispersions around the social media waves in search of a cheap sound bite to gain twit followers. Keep the conspiracy theories to the outsiders. It’s time to walk together again and enjoy this roller coaster that I do believe will culminate in our most successful season in years. 27 to be exact, next May. Forget the Pep v Jose bs that’s flying. There’s a bigger, secret one that I can see in Jurgen. It’s this- Klopp’s out to prove he’s better than the blessed rest- he’s proven it before, now he has the firepower to not only advance, but to hold onto his prizes. Enjoy the ride everyone. Advance through Klopp’s techniques- Versprung Klopp Technik!!! YNWA, P
I really don’t get why so many Liverpool fans are so negative just because we haven’t gone crazy in the transfer window like Man U. It doesn’t matter how much you spend to a certain extent but how you spend it. People seem to be forgetting that Klopp has a great track record of being wise in the transfer market. When he was at Dortmund he didn’t sign any stellar names for massive fees. I think the signings he’s made have been really good. Rodgers wasted loads of money on players which weren’t good enough so spending a lot isn’t always the answer. Leicester won the premier league without spending vast sums. Let’s judge Klopp at Christmas and not after 3 games which is just daft. I am pretty convinced we will be challenging for one of the top four positions. Let’s not forget we don’t have the distraction of Europe and we all know how close we came to winning the league the last time that was the case and with an inferior manager to the one we have now. So let’s have some more positivity please.
I guess there is a lot of jealousy and fear from other clubs towards LFC to the extent that there are paid trolls spreading negativity among our fans…unfortunately some have fallen for it. Else it doesnt make sense to me. Although for fsg, LFC was purely a business venture to start with, during 2013/14 they really started to commit by heart. Almost all of us wanted Klopp during Rodgers era and the owners gave us Klopp instead of sticking to Rodgers till the end of his contract. Now that we got Klopp we are questioning his methods…Firstly, Klopp did not set a title winning expectation in his first year, he mentioned third and many felt that being justified. Everyone knows his cost effective methods wrt transfers which does not necessarily involve an already established player or names marketed in the media…if a striker in Piszczek who last played for Hertha Berlin as a winger is converted to a successful right-back at Dortmund, why is Milner’s role conversion is surprising and unacceptable to many?? scrapping Moreno is not the same as scrapping benteke or balo…instead it makes more sense to shape him. Sturridge maybe positioned on the wings yet he still expects him to be in the box instead of being positioned as a striker but collecting the ball midfeild like he did vs burnley. While Firmino can set the press effectively as a striker, Sturridge can be made mobile as a winger due to his hunger for goals. A new defensive mid at this point would have hampered the progress of his methods which is still in progress…by strengthening the ends of the spine, a new defensive mid next term would not effect the rythm as much…in the meanwhile if Hendo improves, that would be perfect…im sure Klopp has an eye for Hendo’s efforts and wants to give a chance.
Overall, i think we could not have better owners nor Manager and we should really support them…they are not apathetic or dishonest unlike many other clubs (exclude those who can just throw the money to shut everyone)
wrt profit from players sold, it’s okay for making 17.5 mil considering minus 55 mil from last 2 yrs…but i dont think the net amount was a factor they would have been looking at…moreover only unwanted players were sold…and it was a win-win situation for all…wouldnt have been the same by retaining the likes of Ibe, Allen or Brad Smith
The worrying undercurrent that this article plays to, is the “is Klopp really any good” one which only knobheads subscribe to. In 10 months he’s gone from the new Shankly to no better than Hodgson in the eyes of some. Just ask yourself one question. Who else would you rather have in charge?
It even panders subtlety to the ridiculous assertion that he’s somehow been bought off by FSG. This needs to be slapped down, and I’m really surprised that Mike suggests it. Klopp’s an employee and is bound to work to his employer’s terms, but he’s nobody’s yes man. In fact I believe he only signed the contract having received assurances about things like transfers. In that sense he’s got more power than any manager in our history and the day FSG (or whoever owns us) try to change any of that is the day he walks.
Perhaps people just thought that now we have a manager with a track record and experience, and a sqaud he inherited that is not competitive, he might have been able to get in the kind of proven signings that point to the building of a top team.
Instead of a typical, underwhelming small collection of cheap squad player punts (that don’t sell any shirts!)
All points to the fact the transfer policy hasn’t changed, and is the same as Rodgers admitted to working under ( but only after he had been sacked, the fucking mouthpiece)
Let’s see how those “cheap squad players” do before concluding whether Klopp’s in the process of building (gradually) a top team eh?
That old chestnut eh?
I wouldn’t swap Klopp for any other manager, including Pep or Mourinho. Klopp chose this club for reasons that go beyond football. He wanted a club where he could connect with the fanbase and achieve success collaboratively. It’s not about self-aggrandisement or ticking off the major leagues like it is for the above.
I want Klopp’s way to be the way we achieve success. We have already sampled what this might be like with the nights against Dortmund and Utd last season, watching Klopp roaring up and down that touchline like any one of us were on the night. That’s the vision I want to see for this club, not a Pep or Mourinho rocking up for a few years before buggering off to another league.
Are you in PR or marketing?
Damn that stings.
Is it only acceptable nowadays to be ever so contrarian and show how ‘unafraid’ you are of criticising Klopp, before hoping Liverpool lose every weekend in order to validate yourself and show how wise you are compared to the sheep-like masses who dare express positivity about their club’s direction under Klopp?
Good on you Dan.
.We are Liverpool Football Club- not a donut franchise. Dunkin Donuts are a commercial sponsor who give us more than peanuts to spend on our club and should be respected like all our other sponsors.
Yes, we are owned by an American sports investment enterprise- the same as money united. We are not a plaything of bored Russian billionaires who gives out plastic flags on match days, nor an interesting project to play high stakes poker on mercenaries funded by oil-rich Inheritors from the Middle East.
I’d much prefer us to be owned by the types of people who took on the sleeping giants Boston Red Sox and dragged them back into baseball folklore to the envy and admiration of the world. Call me old- fashioned but I’d prefer a sporting investment firm with the specialist skills necessary today to make the most of what we have than leaving it up to a Hedge Fund Manager on the Board of a Chinese finacial investment firm.
These boys always wanted Jurgen- twice they came calling but his integrity, contracts and love for BVD held him back until he ran out his last contract. Then he waited on Bayern’s Pep decision (as he always publicly said he’d love a shot at BM). They dithered in October allowing Pep to leave his decision until Christmas. Jurgen said fuck that- I’ll not await on Pep G to decide MY future- so he let his agent send word out that he’s available to talk to Liverpool. And there FSG got their man who they couldn’t get before (and gave the job to BR with a Transfer Committee to hold the fort in the meantime (and nearly upset the apple cart by giving us our best football and hopes in 25 years!:-))).
So Jurgen’s in. He gave EVERY LFC player a chance to prove themselves unlike others who’ve dismissed kids and legends at other clubs without a hello’goodbye’kiss-me-arse’nor’nuthin’. He was fair and decisive. He bought players not superstars, yes- but I like the cut of their gib.
He’s prised the Top Medic and also the top Nutritionalist from Bayern as he always wanted the energy in his team’s in April that Bayern had from these boys’ methodology. He’s got the closest thing to the Boot Room I’ve seen in Buvac and Krawiest – pals and guys with management badges and experience that’d get them top clubs in Germany and Europe immediately.
FSG have stood by their words to date with the Stadium rebuilding, getting in the players, getting the sponsorships and commercial deals to make the Club viable again after the 2009 meltdown where we almost went into Administration!!
You know- eaten bread is soon forgotten and it wasn’t so long ago that even clubs outside the top ones also looked bemusingly at us. No more. They know we’ve the guy. They know our owners are not smoking what they do at the Emirates. It’s time to sit back folks and not throw darts and dispersions around the social media waves in search of a cheap sound bite to gain twit followers. Keep the conspiracy theories to the outsiders. It’s time to walk together again and enjoy this roller coaster that I do believe will culminate in our most successful season in years. 27 to be exact, next May. Forget the Pep v Jose bs that’s flying. There’s a bigger, secret one that I can see in Jurgen. It’s this- Klopp’s out to prove he’s better than the blessed rest- he’s proven it before, now he has the firepower to not only advance, but to hold onto his prizes. Enjoy the ride everyone. Advance through Klopp’s techniques- Versprung Klopp Technik!!! YNWA, P
You know, we are a franchise and the stadium wasn’t rebuilt, just extended for a mere 150m
Also, the club was never in danger of going bankrupt, as the business fundamentals were sound. You need to look deeper into RBS, private court hearings, settlements and wonder how FSG bought us so cheaply.
This notion John Henry and FSG are the clubs savior is bullshit. The club has been in sporting decline since they purchased.
You said earlier that we were nothing but a donut franchise. I disagree.
The Stafium is being rebuilt and the Annie Road end may be the next part.
We were in danger of Administration and that’s how Martin Broughton (a Chelsea guy of all things!) was able to force H and G to agree to sell for about £300m I think as RBS and the other bank were not prepared to wait any longer nor deal with them as their own financials were under severe threat too.
The fact that you acknowledged they bought us so “cheaply” re-enforces that being the position at that time. FSG did save us and are continuing to do so in a pragmatic and positive way. Almost ‘The Liverpool Way’.
You don’t know anything actually. The policy of spending big and getting the next flashy signing had been practiced by Liverpool and others over and over in the past, as evidenced by a 35million Andy Carrol and a 45 mil Mangala. And then what happens when the club comes to their senses and realize they overspent on a player who’s not that good just for the rush and the pressure to “get a new signing”? They ship him right back out. Yet funnily enough Leicester won the so called “Holy Grail” last time and Arsenal were second. Having a policy in place of recruiting according to quality and what the team needs, and not due to the pressure of the fans (such as yourself) is what builds great lasting teams (after years of price sticking it to Wenger for not signing anyone, because there wasn’t anyone “good enough”, he went in and landed Sanchez and Ozil. How’s that working out for him?)
Your way of thinking is all that’s wrong with the football world today, corrupting and ruining the game from top to bottom. I hope to God that you’re evil (and that of other like minded people, of which there are many) don’t affect the Liverpool that I care about, and that they stay true to their goal.
I really hated this article alot.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is why Ballotelli went for nowt. Couldn’t the suits even manage to squeeze £10M from someone in this climate of high fees? Poor business if you ask me. And Klopp would have been able to balance the books and spunk a large chunk of change on a LB.
We could squeeze some amount if he could lower his wage demands to 10k-15k/week from 90k…for Nice to agree signing him @ 72k per week meant sacrificing on transfer fee. I guess the player’s career was in consideration as well… instead of holding him back and paying him weekly wages without play time. Again money was not the problem to sign a full-back…apparently they tried Lucas Digne, who would have been perfect but he chose to fight for his place at Barca