IF the August transfer window ends with Joe Allen still a Liverpool player, he will be starting his fifth season in a Liverpool shirt. Allen has been one of the stand-out performers in Wales’ incredible run to the semi-finals of Euro 2016, where they face Portugal this evening.
Wales’ run has been fantastic. A victory for a side embracing what they are, playing to their strengths, passionately battling and not trying to be something that they aren’t. Basically, they’ve been the Anti-England, who tried to be Tottenham and then failed because they aren’t Tottenham.
Read: Ask Not What Hodgson Did For The Country, Ask What The Country Did For Hodgson
Wales have tried to be Wales. Like how Italy try to be Italy. And Germany attempt to be Germany. England try to be all of them. They fail. And then wonder why it failed.
Wales’ victory against Belgium on Friday meant that they have won more knockout games at the 2016 European Championships than England has in the history of the competition. Think about how utterly crazy that is. How utterly embarrassing that is for England.
It would be fantastic if the FA decided to use Wales as their template instead of attempting to ape Spain, Germany, France or the Dutch. There is no shame in English football embracing being English. International football isn’t about a style of play or an ethos — it’s about winning as many games as possible over the course of a month every two years.
The Liverpool-related run-off from Wales’s extraordinary run has been a huge amount of talk about Joe Allen’s future.
From earlier this year it has been clear Allen’s chances of a long-term future at Liverpool are at best slim, at worst non-existent. He’s got 12 months left on his contract and a new offer doesn’t appear to be forthcoming.
Allen is a good footballer. I’m not using more superlatives than that as I don’t really think anything he’s done since 2012 deserves him being labelled anything above that. What is written below probably won’t prove to be very popular.
I like him, I like the way he clearly values the ball and uses it well when he does have it. His input in games like Dortmund last season was vital. He got on the ball and helped calm things down and provided us with something we hadn’t had previously. But how have we got to a position where he is now held in such high esteem? I must have been watching something very different in 2012, 2013, 2014, and…you get the point.
People will say, “Well he’s a decent squad option.” No, sorry, I don’t want a single decent ‘squad option’ next season. I want 20 players who can start every week if needed and can make a real difference. Being able to “do a job” shouldn’t be entertained any more. Let’s think big. Manchester United have just signed Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Henrikh Mkhitaryan while we’ve got loads of people wanting to get Allen more involved.
In the previous four seasons Allen has started 60 of a possible 152 league games — an average of 15 a season and 23 games on average where he hasn’t been in the starting line-up.
In those four seasons Liverpool’s league position has been seventh, second, sixth and eighth. Allen hasn’t been able to hold down a starting place in what is, on the basis of league positions, one of the poorest-performing Liverpool sides in living memory.
Two managers have failed to give him regular football. One of them signed him for the club having managed him before and one is Jürgen Klopp, who gave him six Premier League starts all season.
Even in these six starts, four of them came after Klopp decided to ‘manage’ the squad during our end-of-season run-in towards the Europa League final, while one of the other two was when Emre Can was suspended.
Where is this adulation coming from?
The belief that Joe Allen is good enough to hold down a regular position at Liverpool Football Club is something I find mystifying.
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He’s been great for Wales in the Euros? Couldn’t care less. I’ve watched Hal Robson-Kanu, who is literally unemployed, score two goals for Wales in the last few weeks and if Liverpool turn up at the Emirates in six weeks’ time with him playing I’ll be trying to burn that new stand of ours down before it’s even completed. Salif Diao looked great for Senegal in 2002, Phil Babb looked brilliant for Ireland in 1994.
One thing I’ve had a good laugh at is the narrative from many who love doing Jordan Henderson down. “Why are we getting rid of Joe Allen and keeping Jordan Henderson? It’s absolutely ridiculous.”
Ridiculous? In the four seasons since Allen signed he’s failed to displace Henderson in the centre of our midfield. Henderson was also named captain by the previous manager — the manager who had signed Allen from his former club. Why is it ridiculous that someone who’s clearly achieved less in a Liverpool shirt is the one out of the door? For the record, 127 games, seven goals, and nothing particularly memorable.
It’s hardly wilfully selling Luis Suarez is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-3EVRGR2g
There’s definitely a debate to be had about Henderson and his long-term contribution, and I’d be fine with a replacement. But that replacement isn’t Allen.
A good barometer when it comes to signing and selling players is the clubs who are interested in the player you’re trying to buy or sell.
At the time of writing we look to have real interest in two midfielders: Piotr Zielinski from Udinese and Mahmoud Dahoud from Borussia Monchengladbach. Zielinski is attracting interest from Napoli, who finished second in Italy last season and will play Champions League football next season, while Dahoud is attracting interest from Dortmund. Napoli and Dortmund are two sides that are unarguably positioned above us at present — competing with them for players is absolutely fine.
What of Joe Allen? Chelsea? Manchester United? Manchester City? Arsenal? Spurs? Barcelona? Juventus? Real Madrid?
Err, no, not quite.
Swansea City for £10m appears to be the most likely end result. Is that the level we should be batting at? Thinking about lads who interest Swansea as serious first-team footballers?
I know this may look to be a very basic way of analysing things, but do you think any of the lads at Swansea (no disrespect) are going to push this side on a level? I don’t, so why would you want to stick someone in your side every week that they’re going to put in theirs?
Some people will shout, “squad player.” If he’s not good enough to start every week, send him somewhere else — that goes for any player we’ve got.
If the manager isn’t confident in them starting 30 games next season then show them the door. We accept mediocrity too willingly; we’re all guilty of it with one player or another.
Klopp has a job on — a job that involves putting Liverpool back at the top level of English and European Football. Don’t accept second best. Joe Allen is a walking, talking, football-playing metaphor of exactly this.
We’ll always have that assist at Stoke in last season’s League Cup semi-final though. Yeah, he did mean it. Don’t @ me.
Does that logic go for Flannagan and Lucas as well? Good, but not good enough
Conversely you could argue that if he had played more during those poor league finishes then the side may have finished higher.
I personally think the team often look better balanced with him on the pitch and having a player who is intelligent and can change the pace of a match is not to be sniffed at. It also is a squad game, like it or not, and having a lad embedded at the club who can be counted on and can play a number of positions is worth more than the 10 mill the club would get for him IMO.
Keep Joe.
Agree totally with that article.
It’s a symptom of nice lads but not good players.
Joe Allen deserves all the plaudits he is getting, his own teammates have said he is the linchpin of the team. I can only judge him on his performances on the pitch, against top teams and players. Based on that, do I think Joe Allen deserves a new contract – yes, because as you say he can make a difference and is improving. Do I think he’ll get a new contract – no, it seems that the Klopp maester want to bring a different dynamic to the team.
I think you also need remember that in 2008 LFC tried to sell Xabi Alonso for £7 million. At that time it was claimed that the fee was to expensive and we all know what happened next.
Joe Allen is not Xabi Alonso m8. Not even close.
Every Liverpool Midfielder should be judged by the benchmark of Souness. You look at Souness and then Joe Allen and remember they play in the same position.
This might seem unfair because Allen is a tidy player, but tidy players dont win the league. Souness, Keane, Viera and Tore win teams the league from midfield.
Totally agree with you Phil. Good article. Great to realize that I am not the only one that don´t believe in the recently created hype. People used to mock his relationship with Rodgers but now it is totally forgotten and they think Allen is world-class over a night.
I like Allen though but he is simply not good enough for taking the club to the next level
its a weird LFC thing amongst a large part of the fanbase.
The players we buy generally are not going to be good enough despite not even kicking a ball for us yet. The players we are letting go suddenly become really good and mistakes to let them leave despite no evidence on the pitch to back this up. The players other clubs – especially rivals – buy are the ones we should have got despite never having heard of most of them. And the players nobody had heard of 6 weeks ago and are linked to us but not signed are a clear indication of the failings and incompetence of FSG.
Good article.
Joe is a good footballer but not defensively solid enough (or physical enough) to play a 2 man midfield in the premier league, nor is he dangerous enough in attack to play in the AMs. The main thing he really excels IMO is in a 3 man midfield and transitioning the ball from defence into attack but should that be enough to get a spot in the Liverpool side? Coutinho did that role in the 13/14 season and can also score goals….Hendo can control the game yet defensively solid.
As good as he is, we need to move on and give the likes of Grujic and Brannagan space to step up and prove themselves.
For me, Branagan and Allen are basically the same player right now, except Branagan is 6 years younger, can shoot the ball, and has yet to reach his full potential. I see Branagan filling the Allen role this year, seeing whether he can kick on.
I would argue that nearly our entire team of last year were ‘squad players ‘ most simply aren’t good enough .
I’d agree with you m8.
Swansea and Sevilla – CL club, beat us in Europa league final, etc.
I can see your point regarding our expectations, but those examples you gave of Allen coming off the bench to give us stability/better grip on the ball towards the end of the season is why I think he’s worth keeping, rather than what he’s doing in a Wales shirt. Until I see another member of the squad who can offer that – Grujic, Dahoud or Zielinski could be, but only one of them is actually our player, and he hasn’t played a minute for us yet – I vote we keep hold of JA.
Unless someone wants to pay us silly money off the back of the Euros.
The term “good enough” is meaningless unless the objective is stated.
Is Joe Allen “Good Enough” to fill a position next season? Yes.
Is Joe Allen “Good Enough” to improve on 8th? Yes.
Is Joe Allen “Good Enough” to take us to 4th? Probably not.
Is Joe Allen “Good Enough” to tale us to a CL final in 2019. No.
But we are not seriously attempting a 4th pace finish. We are in the competition for one. Like every other mid table club.
If Joe Allen isn’t good enough, then why not call out all the other players who aren’t good enough?
Why not call out the owners who turned us into a mid table club?
Klopps job is to keep hope up and belief up, which keeps revenues rolling in, as Rodgers did. He clearly isn’t tasked to deliver us back to top level football, as this and all the other transfer windows have proven.
When hope and belief fade, Klopp will be replaced by another manager to inject belief and hope, whilst Joe Allen will likely still be here, like Leiva. Managers are cheaper than players.
don’t you get bored?
All the time. Especially since FSG bought us and the footy went down the pan.
Absolutely spot on Phil, and written without animosity. I’m made up for the turn that Joe’s life appears to be taking at the moment. By all accounts, he seems a good lad. I wish him nothing but success and more success. But I want better football players at my club. Simple as that. He won’t make any of the sides above us better. Why should we think he will somehow do that for us? YNWA Joe.
The comments here illustrate that the article really does touch on a bigger question: Whether Liverpool, top to bottom, are committed to and pursuing policies that will return it to the elite top tier of European clubs. Klopp’s appeal, apart from his charisma, etc. is primarily that he took a big club and put it into that tier, at least for a few seasons. That he did it on a somewhat reduced budget compared to Real, Barca, Bayern is not a bad thing. But there is still a floor to what you can spend and who you bring in and have a realistic chance to reach the goal that most of us have. The book is still out as to whether the club leadership have properly recognized where that floor is and are committed to conducting all of their business above it.
As for Allen, I agree with the article.
Joe Allen like many others in the squad are good enough for where we are, not good enough for where we want to be. For me the damning statistic is that he has been at the club for 5 years!!!! either time has flown, or he has just been under my radar for lack of a definite contribution. As for the big Swede down the road does anybody really consider him a great/world class????
I disagree with the general premise of this as well argued as it is but I can’t have a go at it after you lashed the factually correct ‘he meant it’ shout out there at the end. You’re alright you, Phil.
Good article – though, if such a harsh light was shined on all LFC squad players, very few would merit staying at the club – at least, the younger ones have ‘potential’ to hide behind.
Many people compare Allen’s situation to Lucas. They would be a 100% correct in saying that while not strictly similar footballers, theyre both DMs and Allen is likely the better player.
However, one only needs to look at Lucas’ utilization in the post-Klopp era, and recognize that he is being transformed, into a rather matured CB. He will never have the searing pace and power of younger CBs like, say, Stones, but Lucas’ maturity/experience, reading of the game, interceptions, key tackles and distribution is superb playing as a CB. For his size, he wins a surprising amounts of headers too.
He plays the sweeper/last defender role extremely well and is sure to be a very welcome squad player next season, in precisely that role. Largely its accepted Matip/Sakho will be the first choice pairing, followed by Sakho/Lucas (and the younger boys like JGomez, AWisdom will rotate as fitness/form demands).
Allen on the other hand, just doesnt have the physicality to be a reliable DM. We have seen this time and time again, in far too many games. He gets bullied and easily shrugged off the ball.
Klopp has utilized Joe as either a box to box midfielder, expected to help with the attack OR as an experienced playmaker when playing alongside a largely youthful starting lineup. In this role, he is far below the standard required for a side aspiring to break into the Top4, and low in the pecking order of the current squad, forget the new additions.
Im sure Klopp will still use Joe, if LFC is unable to sell him for a decent price, but i thoroughly doubt he is central to Klopp’s future plans – which, from the player’s perspective, now in his most productive years as a midfielder, is a shame.
Joe needs to quit LFC, more than LFC wants to get rid of Joe – frankly, him moving to a club where he gets to start is better for both parties. The younger Stewart/Randall/Chirivella make better understudies and squad players, from both a short and long term perspective.
Just a few points:
1) Using the logic in the article, Joe’s value to Liverpool has risen since Sevilla, the team that beat us in a European final, has shown interest in him.
2) There was no mention of how much time Allen has been injured during his time at Liverpool. From my recollection he’s been injured an awful lot, although thankfully that seems to be behind him now.
3) Whether a player is in the first team or on the bench the expectation is that he can play at the level required, even if he remains an unused sub. The whole concept of ‘squad players’ is a spurious one. Players go in and out of favour as they go in and out of form, and as injuries occur, which is why you need a squad. It is perfectly natural for some players to get more game time than others due to the dynamics of a squad, it doesn’t mean those with less game time should be sold. Allen stepped in when the time was right during the second half of last season – an opening occurred when he was fit and in form and he made the most of it, much to Klopp and Liverpool’s benefit. That’s how the squad system is supposed to work.
Exactly, saying Joe should be sold when there is no guarantee that the likes of dahould or zelinski will be good enough to take us to the top is crazy.. An African proverb says “the devil you know is better than the angel you dont know”
Good control and neat and tidy but not physically imposing enough for our league and not able to drive the team forward.
If Klopp wanted him he would have a new deal by now. Just look at the size of Grujic to see what he does want.
Good luck Joe and thanks for ALWAYS giving everything for LFC.
We have short fullbacks and short attackng mids. For me there just isn’t a role for a small midfielder who is not a goal threat. Good enough isn’t really the issue
That’s heightist you cunt
Carra: “He’s the type of player who players who play with him appreciate more than the crowd or the media.”
After a brilliant first 10 games or so, Allen found himself playing through pain with a shoulder injury. It wasn’t the last time a nagging injury would interrupt just as he hit his stride.
If you look at 13/14, some of our best performances came in December (Norwich, West Ham, Spurs, etc.). Look at our 11 game winning streak – Allen starts in the majority of them. Ask Man City what they thought about Allen over the past few years and they’ll point you to an armful of MOTM awards.
Speaking of which, the Man City game at the end of 13/14? They pull back two goals to level and look ready to score at any moment. Allen enters the fray and they are immediately blunted as he dictates the midfield.
Prior to Klopp, Allen was not a player to grab a game by the scruff of the neck, but he was vital to the general play. In his book, Suarez said “From my point of view, there was something in that idea of Joe as the Welsh Xavi.”
And now supporters seem content to gamble on Henderson and Can staying fit (please don’t tell me that Milner is a better option in the midfield), and hoping that a Zielinski or Dahoud will hit the ground running in a new league with a new language.
Allen can slot in seamlessly for either Henderson or Can with no real diminishment. He simply offers something different. His game intelligence and speed of thought are as valuable as his tenacity, his ability to reclaim the ball under-appreciated because of the speed with which he transitions the ball upfield.
Even without Europe, the season is long and we face all kinds of opposition. While Allen wouldn’t be ideal in every situation, there are plenty of times when his nous makes more sense than Can’s aggression, which is at times worryingly erratic. Yes, he can play the super sub, but if you give a proper look at his time here, you can see that he can be an excellent starter, as well.
Better written than the hollow article, which is just a lazy opinion… good stuff man.
“Lazy opinion.”