Neil Atkinson, John Gibbons and Gareth Roberts have a chat with Geoff Pearson Senior Lecturer in Criminal Law at Manchester University. Researcher & Writer on Sports Law, Football Crowds, ‘Hooliganism’, Policing and Ethnography about what he (and John Gibbons) saw in Marseille.
Both Geoff and John were on the ground and saw the situation was a lot more complex than the original reports.
Geoff explains the failures in policing in the run up to the weekend and the strategic and tactical errors while Gareth and Neil discuss the speed with which the discussion fell into old speak about football supporters.
There are also concerns going forward voiced in this TAW Special.
Excellent guest, very informed.
One point I didn’t really understand was the bit about the songs. I don’t think anyone for one minute is suggesting French or Russians were offended about the songs England fans sang or even heard them. The point people have made about the songs is it shows who these people were whether a generalisation or not.
But, very informative show. I think it got across the utter chaos and appalling policing and certainly changed my view of the whole thing even if I still don’t have any sympathy for England’s hooligan element (who were undoubtedly there).
Do other nations fans go to these tournaments en masse, drink heavily, sing songs, act silly and DONT get into running battles?
If so, why?
the common denominator in all this seems to be England fans everytime, im not saying they all get involved, far from it but for an outsider looking in, it appears theres a major problem with a large section of england fans intent on causing trouble..it cant be just a coincidence every single tournament.
take a look at other fans, mixing no problem, northern ireland and republic of ireland fans are all enjoying themselves, mixing freely and having the craic and they have the biggest issues between them…
i wouldn’t blame the policing of it and segregation, if they would just behave themselves like the rest there is no need for it..
the ones involved in this are spoiling it for the proper fans, cant they all just f**k off..
This podcast really upsets me. So many half truths and so much brushing over. Hooliganism is a serious threat. I don’t know about the situation in the UK, but in Germany and many other countries it’s growing and becoming much more threatening than it ever was. There is no sweet talking.
But what upset me in your report:
You said policing in Portugal and Germany was so much more relaxed and fan-oriented than in Marseille. Wrong. I don’t know about Portugal, but in 2006 in Stuttgart alone, more than 400 English fans were taken in by police, after behaving quite similar to how they behaved in Marseille – just disgusting. Maybe that was the problem in Marseille, police didn’t lock those people away early enough. On the policing, maybe one should also remember that a French policeman was beaten into a coma by German hooligans in 1998.
You said that French hooligans must have very good hearing if they heard the “Where is ISIS” chants. Do you realize that 130 people were killed and 100s seriously hurt in this country just in November last year? How can you excuse anybody making fun of it? Should anybody in France have to listen to this? You referred to that as “bit boisterous… people having a drink… bit silly”. Just because you have heard and seen it before doesn’t make it right.
You said there were no places to go in Marseille but the port. Wrong. There is a large fan zone in Marseille directly at the beach, just check the internet.
You said: “It was a neutral section at Heysel that caused that problem and it was one of the reasons 39 people died.” – just leaves me speechless.
This is not about bashing the English, I am German and there are serious hooligan problems here. But I think every football fan needs to take over responsibility for preventing those kinds of people behaving in this kind of way in the name of football.
I really like to listen to your podcast from time to time. I rate the football knowledge of the team highly, but that report on what happened in Marseille is not only misleading, it is giving a free pass to people who are not there for the football but for the drinking, for vandalizing and which are looking for trouble. In my opinion it’s about taking responsibility as a football fan and about making clear, that nobody wants people like this in their ranks.
This evening in Lille…
https://twitter.com/stancollymore/status/743115043223556096
Sorry
https://twitter.com/stancollymore/status/743115043223556096
Well said Doris. Disappointing from TAW and GR (one of the best contributors) sorry mate but that Heysel reference was way off the mark. But at least you have sorted out the hooligan problem, just take the police out of the equation, after all it’s their fault the trouble started.
I researched Heysel at length, mate, and if you listened to/read our coverage of the 30th anniversary, you’ll know I’m not in the business of making excuses about it.
Also, Geoff is well read, and well respected in the field of crowd behaviour and policing. I’m not sure what you thought was “off the mark” but what occurred at Heysel was in a “neutral” area (section z). This was poorly policed/stewarded and we all know the rest. It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact. Just as the Russians who attacked England fans exploited a similar section. Just as the fighting that took place at Basel was in a neutral section. As for the final comment, really? There are different methods of policing major football matches. Not many experts believe all or nothing (stand off, then launch in with batons, bullets and tear gas) is the answer. GR
Thanks for replying, I did read and listen to the Heysel coverage and it was first class, my issue was with your comment (quoted above by Doris) saying fault lay with the neutral section ignoring fan behaviour. My point is, when do supporters take responsibility for their actions rather than continually blame other factors, French police deal with public order differently than UK, there are many contributory factors here not just police tactics (or lack there of).