SO here we are again. Stuffy faceless blokes in suits wanting to rewrite the game we love with moves that seem to benefit the few and ignore the many.
This talk of scrapping FA Cup replays, consigning cup weekends to the bin with rounds played midweek instead and reducing League Cup semi-finals to one leg, who is it good for?
The pitch in the initial media reports was that the English season at the highest level features too much football with the consequence of leaving the national team “tired” for summer tournaments.
So presumably shaving off the odd replay and a leg of a semi-final will be like a wrap of amphetamine delivered to a dancer on a Saturday night?
All of a sudden, a nation that hasn’t troubled the world order of football since 1966 will be miraculously recharged as a superpower, wiggling her way past all before her before going home with crown in tow and leaving the globe gobsmacked.
We’ll raise as one and salute the football authorities. Job done, lads. You were right. No-one cares about the FA Cup and the League Cup now, but the coupe du monde sure makes up for it.
It seems unlikely.
Alternatively then, instead of messing around with formats that have served football for decades why don’t these boardroom geniuses consider the man they put at the top of the game in this country: Roy Hodgson.
It’s not cup replays and two-legged semis that are past their sell-by, it’s that pre-historic, wire-wool headed dinosaur. He symbolises everything that is wrong with the FA and its out-of-touch set up.
Away from the man with Shredded Wheat for hair, these suggestions — conveniently scatter-bombed around the media via “sources” — stink of a plan cooked up by the big clubs; the self-serving cartel that wants the big to get bigger and stuff the small.
The disdain for both FA Cup and League Cup has been all too clear in recent years from the bigger clubs and there is now a perennial debate about how to “fix” competitions that have cheered up towns and cities, put smiles on the faces of supporters and left players with a moment, and a medal, to cherish when their legs pack in.
While once streets where dressed with tin-foil cups, scarves and flags, now the FA Cup means understrength sides, moans about fixtures, excuses that don’t sit right and pieces about fourth place in the Premier League being the trophyless trophy we all really want. Not me.
Fans have tolerated it all because finals are still a big deal. Cups still make heroes. And both competitions can create times to recall with glee when you’re cracking open the Werthers Originals and trying to convince the little people in your family that it’s all worthwhile.
What the “debate” over both cups’ worth really comes down to is money. For the big boys, finishing higher in the league brings in more cash than winning The FA Cup. So forget the sport, forget the drama, forget the fans and forget the history — qualifying for, and playing in, the Champions League is the be all and end all. It’s been manufactured that way.
Perhaps then that’s what needs to be “fixed”.
In 2013-14, Arsenal won the FA Cup, finished fourth in the Premier League and lost to Bayern Munich over two legs in the “Round of 16” (any need?) in the Champions League.
That string of achievement boosted the Gunners’ coffers to the tune of £302million from TV and prize money with the Premier League the most lucrative source (£93m), followed by The Champions League (£23m) and The FA Cup (£4.2m).
Winning the world’s oldest knockout tournament at Wembley was worth less than two per cent of their annual revenue to Arsenal. Cut through the bullshit and that’s the bottom line; that’s what the rich clubs are bothered about and that’s why the blokes with the power are pandering to the kick-our-cups-out-of-football agenda.
We’ve seen it at Liverpool. A swift change in Jürgen Klopp’s thinking that left cynics, like me, wondering if there was a word from upstairs. Could he have played stronger sides in the FA Cup? Could he at least have picked a stronger bench? Of course he could.
But if his paymasters say that ultimately the competition is an irrelevance to them, something suggested by Ian Ayre in the wake of Kenny Dalglish’s sacking, then what is he to do?
So enough now. Further changes to two competitions that have given Liverpool fans plenty of days of joy — and hopefully one more on Sunday — should be avoided.
Perhaps I’m looking at it from a different perspective than many. Not just because of my age (40 soon, shit) and the FA Cup and League Cup wins that brought me so much hapiness, but because I’ve seen close up the impact the FA Cup has lower down the pyramid both as a fan (of the now defunct Knowsley United) and a reporter (covering Marine).
FA Cup replays are a godsend for clubs where £4.2m isn’t something you shrug your shoulders at and send out the stiffs.
Take Warrington Town of the snappily-titled Northern Premier League Division One North for example.
The club’s 2014-5 FA Cup run — which included televised ties against Exeter and Gateshead — earned the club, according to the BBC, £190,000.
Warrington’s total turnover for the season before, 2013-14, was £115,000 in total.
Cambridge United is another example. With the £1.3m the club made on two FA Cup ties with Manchester United, the League Two side was able to improve its facilities, including the changing rooms.
Going back to Knowsley United, the club sold Mike Marsh to Liverpool for about £50,000. It paid for seats for the stand, above, and floodlight bulbs.
Many lower league and non-league clubs live a hand-to-mouth existence — they need every penny they can get. The big FA Cup weekends — and the replays — can mean the difference between black and red on the balance sheet.
Mess about — again — with a competition that has already suffered a string of kicks in the balls (Manchester United jibbing it, scrapping semi-final and final replays, moving it from its traditional Saturday slot and so on) and how much longer will the appetite remain to show the games live? When will fans finally write it off as a pot lacking prestige and stay away en masse?
At some point there will be a step too far. A tipping point. So let’s stop stepping and preserve tradition while there remains a chance to do so.
The FA Cup has a great tradition that has been treaded deep into the dirt by the all-consuming Champions League. The much-talked about proposals being bandied about for the competition sound like another step towards a trophy first lifted in 1872 heading for the scrapheap.
On the radio at the weekend there was talk of the rule that means clubs can’t schedule a replay on the same night that a Champions League or Europa League game is being played.
How about some balls from the English football executives on that particular nonsense? Plenty of football fans in England couldn’t a flying one about a Champions League game that doesn’t involve their own club. So play the games.
The latest round of discussion designed to degrade two classic cups also ignores that the clubs supposedly “suffering” as a result of competing in the competitions tend to have the squads to cope.
With the cash washing around the Premier League, especially next season, every club will surely have 25 pros to choose from. So where’s the fire?
Successful teams have always played a lot of games. Champions League winners Barcelona played 61 last season. Top=flight teams in England played on average 47.
When Liverpool won the European Cup in 1984 the Reds played 67 games.
If there is a concern about too much football, how about binning the pointless internationals? Who really cares about them? What are they for?
Further booting The FA Cup and The League Cup seems the easy way out for football jet-setters with little concern for the overall good of the game.
Ronnie Radford? A replay. The 4-4 with Everton? A replay.
And having The FA Cup as a midweek competition, or at least some rounds of it? Taking the piss. The weekend devoted to it makes it special, makes us watch, makes it an event.
Perhaps the well-paid execs can do something for the good of the English game by actually recognising what has made the English game special.
Wembley’s Twin Towers were demolished to make way for an arch. Semi-finals at Wembley further ruined the romance. Torching more tradition in the name of so-called “progress”? Leave the cups as they are.
I don’t need to read the other article. I’m clear in my mind on this. Two things I despise in football are first legs and that feeling at the final whistle of – that was a complete waste of time because we have to play it again. I understand European games being over 2 legs but domestic cups? It’s not for me. If I’m going to a cup game I find it exciting that one will progress by the end of the night. I don’t like the fact that doing well in the cups comes at a price, especially given how January and February are for cup games. No wonder people are turned off.
The Fa have made the cups boring. Who wants a semi at Wembley? or a 2 legged semi in the league cup? Give me Villa Park on a Wednesday night all day. It could be a shame for smaller clubs but the cups need more appeal and this is a good start.
Completely agree.
No need for 2 legged domestic cup matches.
No need for replays.
There’s far too many matches as it is.
Bring in the winter break too, maybe for 10-14 days after New Year’s Day.
Why would you want less domestic football to watch ?
I may be stuck in the past, but I like the replays and the two legged semi-final. I agree that it feels like the big clubs looking out for themselves.
As for playing youngsters and reserves, would Exeter have given a toss if they’d knocked our kids out of the FA cup? Or would they have just said that they beat a premier league team and it was (for some of them) the best night they’d had?
Did Bradford give a toss that they beat Arsenal’s kids in the league cup a few seasons ago? Nah, they ultimately got beaten by Swansea at Wembley (who’d upset Chelsea over two legs that nobody in South Wales was arsed about), but they enjoyed every minute.
Maybe those moments are rare, but there’s a joy in them and it gives teams, players and fans hope of days they don’t get often.
Keep it as is, we’ve lost enough to the telly and the premier/champions league era.
A plan is needed to address all sides of the debate.
1 – The FA Cup becomes 2 leg in rounds 3-6
1st game in midweek, 2nd leg 10 days later on the weekend
The 3rd round includes 20 match-ups between PL sides and 2R winners meaning every lower div. side would play a PL side at least once.
SF in Cardiff, Final at Wembley
2 – League Cup scrapped in favour of Anglo-Scottish Cup using the same 1 match format. Teams in Europe will not enter. Cup does not produce a Europa League qualifier so can be played against CL / EL matches. Seeding guarantees England v Scotland games where possible.
3 – English teams in Europe (8 teams) enter an U21 side in the Football League Trophy R32. 3 Rounds could be played during the Sep / Oct / Nov int’l breaks when many fringe players, like the ones LFC played against Exeter, are idle.
4 – This would allow the PL to shift up 3 fixtures to midweeks before Christmas, dramatically reducing the pressure on teams.
The only thing wrong with the present system is the attitude of the greedy bastard PL owners and Arsene Wenger. The sky / Chelsea mantra that football is all about money is wrong on so many levels and is the true cancer of the game. Fans and players want to see their clubs winning trophys and when Wenger had to pay for the Emirates getting 4th and a CL place was for them on a par with winning a trophy, but not for the rest of us.
The recent ticketing debate / walkout highlighted the importance of fan culture over money culture. As a fan you live for the big games, the ones that go down in your clubs history. What was the key game when you finished 4th in the PL, no idea? Who did you beat it the League or FA cup final? You could probably tell your kids about that day from the moment you woke up to when you went to bed.
FA Cup replays provide clubs like LFC to reduce ticket prices and offer a chance for those that cannot get tickets to go. For smaller clubs it another great night under lights.
League Cup semis either play home and away or have it on a saturday at a neutral ground so it becomes an occaision.
Its hard to win a treble because of the number of games, yes, thats the bloody point, so when a team does it, they become special. An FA and League Cup double should be celebrated not derided because you finished 8th in the league, it is still a great acheivement. This is the logic that flowed from bitter Chelsea fans in 2005 after Istanbul and somehow became another terrible mantra, how can a club finishing only 5th be champions of Europe as if the two seperate competitions are linked.
After Christmas a big club should be fighting on four fronts, that is why they are a big club, you play more matches in Europe now becaus of the greedy chairman wanting European leagues before Christmas and CL teams dropping out into the Uefa. However, the extra money from this should buy you a bigger and better squad. There is no reason why big clubs dont have two teams, one for the league and one for the cups, good way to blood youngsters in and you can always rotate and if the smaller team rises to the challenge and beats a big club then so be it. If you play for a big club need to learn to play under the pressure.
It would have been a fucking sad time for the past 25 years as a Liverpool fan if there were no cups to look back on.
Just play the FA cup rounds.
The losing semi finalists take part in a shield style final for the league cup with a EL place available.
The winning semi finalists take part for the FA cup with a EL place available.
would make semi final weekend and finals weekend more interesting and reduce the rounds, and possibly increase the prize pot, and also allow room for replays to keep the finances for lower league clubs where needed
Get rid of the internationals, take the semi finals away from Wembley, move the 4th Champions league slot from the 4th in the league to the FA Cup winner (or even better, automatic qualification to the league winner and the FA Cup winner and then second and third into qualification rounds), look for a decent sponsor for the FA Cup, ramp up the prize money, play it on a Saturday afternoon. All of a sudden everything’s more appealing. I’m quite happy to run football when they get round to asking.
Could not agree more
Yet again greed driven agendas masquerading as changes for the good. When they have achieved their aim and killed the competion what will ITV fill it’s tea time screen space with? Another vehicle for Ant and Dec?
Agree some changes are needed, my biggest upset was the moving away the final being a 3pm kickoff, doubled with the semi played at Wembly and already half the magic has gone. Both of these have to reverse.
Undecided on replays but tend to agree the FA need to stand up yo UEFA so that mid week dates are more accessible.
Absolutely agree that FA cup winner should get CL place.
As for a sponsor, depressing that such a historic competition has to have one. Necessary evil in this day and age!
I don’t think reducing the amount of unnecessary games amounts to ditching the cups.
I think it is generally accepted that too many games isn’t good for the players. Klopp has said. Even Pardew has said it. (Okay, I won’t forgive myself for quoting him.)
There’s little question Liverpool have suffered because of so many replays this season.
Of course, every now and again a team will play a stack of games, avoid injuries and achieve great things. But more often than not too many games leads to too many injuries and ends up derailing the season.
Is there a wider movement to ditch the cups, a ploy by the big clubs? Man City versus Liverpool on Sunday, Arsenal winning the past two FA Cups and Chelsea monopolising the competition before them kinda says otherwise.
Of course, the league is the bread and butter to quote someone far more notable. And yes, fourth place is obviously a prize. But culling replays doesn’t mean the fun and frenzy of the cups is suddenly history.
Plus, we saw first hand the benefits of playing a younger side in the cups this season (a decision more forced on us than by choice).
I think I’m heading over to the TIA article because I think this one is squeezing lemons :)
Overall games played this season
Leicester 31
Spurs 38
Arsenal 38
MC 40
M UTD 40
South 34
West Ham 37
Liv 42
Watford 30
Stoke 34
Eve 35
Chelsea 39
Palace 32
WBA 33
B Mouth 32
Swans 29
Norwich 30
Newc 29
Sund 29
Villa 32
Fixture congestion is a myth. The mafia at the top only care about Champions League and the League. The UEFA cup only became of slight interest once the route into the Champions League became available.
It’s like the top teams moaning about injuries. Deal with it. Manage your resources. Injuries happen. Are Newcastle and Sunderland complaining about too many games? I bet they would have liked a few more.
Oh no! We are soooooo successful we play too many games – feel sorry for us.
Only 13 of our players have had more than 10 Premier league starts –
José Enrique 0
Tiago Ilori 0
Cameron Brannagan 0
Jon Flanagan 0
Ryan Kent 0
Jerome Sinclair 0
Sheyi Ojo 0
Connor Randall 0
Joe Maguire 0
Pedro Chirivella 0
Kevin Stewart 0
Brad Smith 0
Jordan Rossiter 0
João Carlos Teixeira 0
Steven Caulker 0
Ádám Bogdán 1
Joe Allen 2
Better rotation would have given our players a rest and the younger players a chance.
End quote “Agree? Disagree? ” is misleading. Agree/Disagree with Robbo or the planned changes?
I thought same to be fair. I agree wholeheartedly with Robbo though
They weren’t worried about extra games when they came up the wank idea of European cup group stages,
International football is hard enough to watch when its competitive, get rid of friendlies I’m all for,
Cup replays and the 2 leg league cup semi are fine as far as I’m concerned, proper footie most times, European football bores the shite out of me most weeks.
Dare I say it, dare I, Martin Samuel on the Sunday Supplement had it about right. Listen to it and just pretend it’s someone else talking, lot of sense.
Nah, just tell us, Brian!
A lot has been made of the new TV money coming in next season for the next 5 years totally £8bn odd in relation to not having to put ticket prices up. If in the next 5 years the PL looses it’s co-efficeient (as Italy did) down to 3 for the CL what are knock on negative effects for the next TV deal.
If we accept that revenues from TV can support other projects in the game such as ticket prices or grass roots footy etc then ultimately the PL needs to protect that income stream.
Yes it does protect the tops teams but the competition in the PL is generally more equal overall than the other top leagues across Europe.
Italy have already adjusted their fixtures to give the CL teams better rest periods between local & CL games to get their co-efficient back up.
The league cup does work as it’s done by Feb and apart from the 2 leg semi, the FA cup needs the Simon Cowell treatment.
He said pool the money in the FA Cup so it benefits the lower standard teams across the board that don’t drawer bigger clubs as it’s just luck who you get. The bigger clubs would get less but the revenue is arbitrary to them anyway. This would deal with the argument of the cash revenue replay. Another option is that pooled cash could still filter down once you go out after say round 3.
Just get rid of the League Cup after Liverpool’s final glorious victory in 2016. We’re handicapping ourselves by playing in 2 cups compared with our European rivals.
Might be stupid but just a thought. Who ever wins the cups get 3 points toward there league total. That might intise the bigger clubs to take it seriously