HEARTBREAKING. And I didn’t expect to be writing that tonight.
Absolutely heartbreaking to see that happen to these lads after the performance they put in. Liverpool deserved the lot insofar as either side did. Liverpool deserved to go to Blackburn; deserved to go through.
It wasn’t a foul. That’s part of what sticks in the craw. Part? Most. Most of it.
Normally these things here aren’t red in tooth and claw but this one is.
Fuck off, you blag Tory bastards. You should fucking know better, Tory bastards. You fucking appalling gang.
Fuck off, referee.
Fuck the fuck off.
You don’t get what you deserve in football and the cliché that mostly things even out over the course of the season mostly holds true.
But tell that to these lads tonight. They don’t want or need evening up. To at least get penalties would have been something. To get the win they deserved across 120 minutes would have been the right thing.
So don’t say they balance out. Don’t give me that. Because how does it balance out for Kev Stewart? For Pedro Chirivella? How does that happen? They gave absolutely everything. Gave their last breath for the cause.
Both centre backs were excellent. They had a constant interest in defending. They solved problems. They deserved more.
Read: Player ratings – West Ham v Liverpool
The man who could have given Liverpool more out of the game than any other deserved more out of the game. It was Christian Benteke’s best performance for ages but he simply has to score at some point.
We can look for positives. Philippe Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge. The latter emphatically the best player on the pitch. The former scores. These are huge positives for Jürgen Klopp, for Liverpool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaLWzyyEq5k
But I don’t want positives. I am heartbroken. I am downcast. Sometimes you just buy into a gang of lads. And these are my heroes.
For 20 minutes Kev Stewart will be my favourite player. For 60 minutes I want Chirivella on the pitch in both legs against Augsburg. And, until kick-off Sunday, I want an unchanged back four against Villa.
These lads deserved one more cup game. You can argue and I will — at least tonight — that these lads deserve more than that.
Up the heartbroken Reds.
Yep Gutted for the young lads but feeling strangely upbeat considering we have been knocked out of the FA Cup by the ghost of Stoke past.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a Liverpool team give so much. The Lucas block near the end empitomised it. First Milner slid then Lucas just made himself huge and hurled himself at it. Could easily have taken one in the plums. I keep thinking of the piece Kristian Walsh wrote about blending the league and cup teams. It’s not about individuals, it’s about what you bring to the team. It’s about dynamics. Our league 11 is not our first 11. No chance. We could have a really vibrant team. It’s been great watching these fa cup games.
Yep Robin, as Ben said on The Pink (he made me laugh loads too, bless him), there are interesting machinations afoot, as JK must have seen what these guys bring to the party in terms of their fearlessness and energy. Let’s see what the next year brings.
As for that cheating t**t Valencia. A very strong feeling that we were robbed tonight.
Well, I’ve just commented on Johns piece that I don’t feel robbed. I watched the free kick on loop and I believe he’s been tight to him and given him a 2 handed push into the middle of his back. I thought his face backed it up too. Worse than Ilori’s and he looked guilty as sin after the penalty appeal. I feel really proud of them all tonight. Just gutted, we could easily have got more out of it.
Great comment about the team giving their all. We’re not happy with the result but we sure are pleased with the effort. Keep Lucas at centerback too!
https://theredsoliloquy.wordpress.com/2016/02/12/for-gods-sake-just-kick-somebody-west-ham-2-1-liverpool-fa-cup/
I have found it to be a consistent theme in the past 3 months that the teams with the reputation for strong, tough football (West Ham, Stoke, Watford) have been the worst for playing for free kicks. Tonight was a case in point. Every time a Liverpool player put in any kind of challenge, there was at least one home player looking to the ref for a free kick. Anyway, it was a hugely encouraging performance from a very young Reds team tonight. Harsh on them to go out this way.
Well, they aren’t my heroes. I’m hoping they get sold. All of them, apart from Ings and Gomez. Maybe that pair as well, when I’ve seen them play for us enough. It’s a good team to be out of, through injury. A player can look like Messi, if he lies on the treatment table for long enough.
I’m hoping Klopp can buy a whole new squad, after a fire-sale. Hoping that he’ll be much better at doing this than getting this poor squad of players to play better.
I’m not confident though. Here’s his managerial record from 2001 to the present day…
Played 617
Won 300
Drawn 156
Lost 161
Win-rate 48.6%
He fails to win more often than he actually wins, so get used to not winning. Get used to a draw/defeat being the most likely result and not a victory.
If those 617 matches were all league games, his teams would average 1.711 points per game. That’s a tiny fraction over 65 points, in a 38 game season. That tally would have not been high enough to make the top-4, in any of the previous 10 Premier League seasons.
Benitez was sacked, after failing to qualify with 63 points. He usually got us a lot more points than that and took us to a brace of Champions League finals. Rafa got none of the backing that Jurgen is likely to enjoy, this coming Summer.
Klopp’s record isn’t a patch on Benitez, since 2001. It’s not even close. Unlike Rafa, he’s an easy guy to like. I want him to succeed, but I’m far more interested in hard evidence than anecdotes proving how cool our new boss is.
Who was really surprised when West Ham scored the winner today? When the free-kick was awarded, what price would you have taken on the game still going to penalties. 1/5? 1/4? I wouldn’t have taken either bet. The goal felt inevitable and West Ham were denied a stone-wall penalty that would have wrapped things up, anyway.
I didn’t feel heartbroken at all. I laughed when they scored, as gallows humour is all that is left to enjoy.
West Ham voted Labour in 2015, by the way. Lyn Brown, majority 27,986. I believe that young men supporting Stoke and Sunderland have also been known to wave banknotes at football matches involving us. The Tories didn’t do much better in those places either.
I would accept that last night’s wad-brandisher probably voted for an alternative political organisation than Labour, though. Then again, perhaps we are missing his point?
Rather than wishing to rub the noses of the poor in dog-shit, maybe he was pointing out the folly of spending all that money (discounted tickets not withstanding) to visit London on a Tuesday evening, to support such a bunch of losers like Klopp and his merry men?
I bought a Cornetto, watched a free stream and still felt cheated.
How horrible it must be to be you. Always right. Always miserable.
OK, I’m not having that – it’s time for a stat off!
So you think it’s balanced to include 7 years’ worth of stats from his period in charge of Mainz, German’s equivalent of Sunderland at that time? It would be much fairer and more pertinent to concentrate on his subsequent 7 years at Dortmund, which reads like this:
Played: 318
Won: 179
Drawn: 69
Lost: 70
Win rate: 56.3%
Klopp also won two league titles, one German FA Cup, two German Supercups, and got to the final of the Champions League while having that 56.3% win rate.
For the record, Shankly’s win rate with Liverpool over 15 years was 52.19%, Alex Ferguson’s career win rate was 58.14%, Ancelotti’s is 58.25% (including a 56.26% win rate while at AC Milan from 2001-2009), Rafa Banitez had a win rate of 56% during his time at Liverpool, and even Bob Paisley only had a win rate of 57.57%.
I miss Rafa – don’t want rid of Klopp, I just miss Rafa. Would love him to pop up with some Facts!
I’m assuming after this email you contacted walls to complain that your conetto was too cold, that the distribution of nuts has declined from a 88% coverage in 1996 to 34% present day. I’m assuming you moaned about the decline in flavour of the mint or that the strawberry one doesn’t contain real strawberries. You probably went as far to request full withdrawal of walls products due to the lack of quality advertising since the “just one cornetto” song or the fact that eating ice cream in winter has given you sensitive teeth and storm Imogen blew your fence over because of this. A cornetto can look like a magnum in the esso garage so ban the ice cream men.
We was boss tonight end of.
Klopp appears to be planning much farther ahead than the rest of us dare to even think. All his workings are applied with masses of common sense. His touchline enthusiasm masks the thinking going on and longer term strategy e.g.Sturridge fitness regime, not buying mercenaries (Liverpool loving lad goes to china) bringing loanees home, educating them and giving them a chance, Smith & Stewart do look the part now and will continue to improve, other youngsters will follow. When he adds his preferred players via transfers clears out a few and we are up and running again. key is how patient is everyone else. It cant be done overnight.
Why all the comparisons to Rafa? He hasnt been our coach for a long long time now. But maybe you missed that on your streaming
Oh deary me it’s so boring. This obsessive reliance on statistics hides a lack of understanding in my opinion. Not everything can be reduced to statistics, but it’s nice to pretend it can for those who need everything in neat little boxes.
Ah Dan you missed an obvious joke there.
“Not everything can be reduced to statistics, but it’s nice to pretend it can for the 37% of people who need everything in neat little boxes.”
I did chuckle at this one I must say!
That’s because you watch the game to get what you want out of it. It doesn’t make you more when lfc win and it shouldn’t make you less when they don’t. Just forget about the stream and enjoy your cornetto next time.
There is a huge element of that to it Joe. Many fans in football see themselves as ‘whistleblowers’ if they criticise somebody nobody else does. It’s a very well-disguised form of attention seeking. Sadly statistics, especially when devoud of any context, can tell you anything you ask them to tell you. Mignolet’s clwan sheet statistics are rather good after all….
There are lies , damned lies and there are statistics.
Stats my arse, while “true” they don’t look at the bigger picture, ever.
Must have took you a decent while to compile that shite. Time that you’ll never get back.
@Lady…:
Before reading, I knew your comment would be the most negative of the lot and your favorite book might be “Enjoy Depression”. To make up stats about the overall wins/draws/loss is simply ridiculous.
I bet Ancelotti is the best manager in the world so, since he only managed top teams and didn’t have to compete with Mainz against Bayern Munich and with Dortmund against Real Madrid.
“Buy a new squad” is another expert opinion, indeed. Obviously, you fail to understand that a “team” needs like 10 matches together with the same starting XI to know each others paths and coordinate accordingly. Imagine your working colleague changes every second day, coordinating work together won’t be that easy. More so for footballers who play as a team.
Btw, don’t cease the ticket protests!
“since he only managed top teams and didn’t have to compete with Mainz against Bayern Munich and with Dortmund against Real Madrid.”
Is exactly right. Classic example of failing to apply context to the use of statistics.
The hard evidence is 2 Bundesliga titles and a Champions League final just as Rafa’s hard evidence was to La Liga titles and a UEFA cup. The rest is meaningless. Indeed, one could tentatively argue that Klopp’s record is better: Rafa inherited a great team from Hector Cuper, his pre-Valencia record was distinctly average. Let’s hope that Jurgen improves us just as Rafa improved us. Good managers usually do, y’know.
Someone woke the troll up
In relation to Benitez versus klopp, try to look at wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Ben%C3%ADtez and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Klopp
If you look closely you will notice that is Benitez first 8 years (93-01) of managing teams his record are:
P:239, W: 90, D:69, L: 80 goal difference +36, win percent <38%
Jurgen Klopp
01-08 Managing Mainz
P:270, W: 109, D:78,L:83, Win percent: 40.4%
After which he managed Dortmund which was in shambles when he took over, and there his number are:
P318, W:179, D: 69, L: 70, Win percent: 56.3% and guess what Benitez win percent at Liverpool was? Yes that is right 56%
So sir my questions to you Are:
1) Are they really so different
2) what sort of budget did Benitez have in Liverpool compared to what Klopp had in Dortmund?
3) How many premier league titles did Benitez win?
Personally I think it is premature to judge Klopp at this point – you have got to give him at least 18-24 months. YNWA
Considering the team put out I thought we played pretty well and with freedom. It was also a relief to enjoy watching the reds for a change. It was a free kick, it was unnecessary but overall Lucas was excellent. Sturridge looked a class above, please stay fit. Politics a distraction and irrelevant in a match report.
Agree, I don’t get the it wasn’t a freekick in-justice.
The ref’s given it, move on.
Shape up, and defend the bloody free kick – and hope your keeper doesn’t just drop to his knees instead of moving his feet.
Hear, hear!
Everybody’s is (rightly) having a go at Mignolet, although just because of the fact that the results haven’t been going our way. The truth of the matter is that he now just makes basic goal-keeping errors (I don’t mean howlers), he’s not moving his feet properly, his positioning and weight-shifting are just plain wrong, etc.
Having said, and with the obvious explanation that both were exhausted by that point, Stewart and Flanno should’ve done a bit better against Ogbonna as well.
To me the Europa League is much more important, so not bothered about going out really.
I hope that some serious consideration is being given to what these young guys can do, finding out what they can do, and whether they can supplant older, more expensive players.
To me the key to being able to buy at the level necessary this summer is to be able to sell off players that aren’t producing or don’t fit, even if they are big club names that have been given big responsibility by previous managers. The 4-2-3-1 is still the vision and the way forward, and some players just don’t work.
If Chirivella, Brannagan, Stewart, Rossiter, Flanagan, Smith, Ilori can all fill at the very least squad roles, well you can work out who isn’t needed anymore. Then you can make a run at Xhaka, at Gotze, at Icardi, at ter Stegen or Karius or whoever is fancied.
With the new TV money, the only European clubs that should be powering out LFC for European players are RM, Barca, PSG and Bayern. Liverpool should be able to sign good young talents that are not galacticos like Manc Blue, Manc Red and Chelsea will be chasing. Spurs won’t be in the market much because of their stadium situation.
So that’s what this run of games in the FA Cup — Exeter, West Ham — show me. These young kids need a real go to see what they’ve got, because their readiness might be the key to bringing in some real talent and starting the clear out of the dross.
excellent point. But without being over confident or putting too much pressure on them, I would like them to slowly progress (played among the seniors, instead of whole team of youngsters).
Once everyone is fit, I would think the serious upgrades required to challenge would be:
~ wide player (while Ibe and Ojo learns)
~ holding/defensive midfielder (to compete with Lucas)
~ Centre back upgrades
~ False-1.
False – 1.. Love it
Right, wouldn’t expect any of them to be first XI out of the box.
(Karius, ter Stegen, Ward); Clyne, Lovren/Matip/Sakho/Skrtel (I don’t honestly know who the best 2 are), Moreno; (Xhaka), Can; Firmino, Coutinho, (Gotze); Sturridge would be my ideal first XI.
Markovic back from loan, Luis Alberto is playing well on loan, Origi back from injury, and the young guys that have played in the cups…you can work out who that would leave out.
This season has made success feel farther away than it is. But I feel like some changes need to be made in the negotiation and target identification setups for this to happen. Rodgers couldn’t close deals (Sanchez, Alli), Klopp can do better but he’s not going to do all the scouting and target generation because he has a team to manage and train. I don’t have much confidence that the same bunch that acquiesced on signing some of these players is going to do better the next time. If public reports are to be believed, some of the analytical aspects are fundamentally flawed and I can prove it.
Michael Owen is doing my nut in about bentekes movement….but not nearly as much as the man himself.
it was obvious from the 1st minute that Owen had it in for Benteke – he could have scored a hat-trick (literally he could have scored a hat-trick!) and Owen would have still criticised him.
My advice – MUTE button
Still, he’s not wrong.
Benteke gets plenty of chances.
What’s politics got to do with it Glasses?
Possibly an indication is of how low the bar has dropped that we are impressed the players turned up….and lost.
This season is about Klopps clear out list being written, and a big transfer budget being allocated.
So you don’t find anything to enjoy in seeing a bunch of kids put in a great effort and almost pull off a victory? Maybe you should marry the slag in the van and produce a string of miserable little fuckers and you can all wallow together
“I laughed when they scored”. Sums you up girl
i rarely wake up from a defeat feeling rejuvenated as a Liverpool fan . The argument here is if a lot of these lads can do it against a full strength West Ham team they can start premier league games . Interesting decisions ahead for klopp but ultimately thankful to have more options .
I don’t think you can say we deserve to win the game when our finishing is so poor. We got what we deserved for poor finishing (i.e. one goal). They got what they deserved for better finishing (i.e. two goals).
As you (Neil) have said so often on the podcasts – sometimes you just need to be better than them in both boxes. Last night we were not.
However, I do come away as positive from a defeat as I have all season – so I guess that’s something.
I can’t see what the fuss is about. Klopp played a second fiddle side and got the expected result. If a £32,000,000 striker can’t hit a simple target with several chances, you are going to find it hard to win. We all know we’ll leak almost as many goals as the opposition have shots. We also know some of these fringe players can fill in and perhaps put pressure on the crap that gets selected week in week out.
Being out of this cup will be better for this season. Euro competition must be the aim. Win the shitty league cup, EL here we come. Fail and it’ll be a battle for 6th for that spot – which is possible with Sturridge and Phil back. If they remain fit and Benteke fucks off, 5th could even be on the cards. Which leaves the EL itself. With no FA cup to worry about, Klopp can educate the players in Euro games, and they’ll all be better off for it for next season.
Should we finish below 6th, lose the final, and flop in the EL, I think we can accept mid-table shittery is our future. I doubt FSG will let klopp churn the mid-table shite filling the squad, and the likes of Ayre will never get rid of the over paid shite.
Take your cornetto and stick it up your fat wife’s arse, ladyboy in the van. Why are you so bitter ???team played well tonight and the reason torys where mentioned is because of their chairmen you prick , writing about it’s a labour seat you just come across as posh ice cream eating twat
“It will go into the history of West Ham’s greatest games,” said Bilic. “Against Liverpool, the last season at Upton Park, night kick-off, a goal in the last minute.” – from the BBC.
Bless ’em. Our boss gang of squad lads made them feel like that. We’d have taken the win, looked at the next fixture and moved on with a little celebration. In the same way that we’ll take the disappointment, look at the next game and vent it on the pitch.
Shove your cheap songs and obsession with ex-players; we’ve got European competition and a cup-final to focus on. Have a banana.
The future’s bright- the future’s Jugend
Fighting for the shirt and giving all is good for me. Klopp has injected passion and after the summer we’ll have a clearer idea of how HIS side is taking shape.
It’s the cup – shit happens . Ant team can go out and no one has a right to go through. Just support the team win or lose !!! That’s what we need to do.
As for those idiot West Ham fans , they’ll never change . Still singing sign on after 30 odd years is just a reflection of their bankrupt support and culture, lack of any social conscience and ethics. Totally lacking any class . Most of them aren’t even easterners but brainless idiots from Essex .
I am worried.
Worried about jam tomorrow – again.
Klopp. I worry about him. The club were thinking of buying Alex Teixeira for about £25m who subsequently decided to go to China. Would he have knocked our younger players further down the chain? I worry that Klopp is not giving our younger players a chance – a proper chance in league games. Ojo scores a great goal and is not seen since. Ward impresses in Scotland and can’t get a cup game. I worry that he is giving the young players a chance for the wrong reason. We all know our young players could have been knocked out against Exeter and then again at home to the Hammers.
With all the injuries to the first team how many chances has he given to the young players in league games?
I would have loved to see Brad Smith given a chance at left back. I think he is ready. He could be better than Moreno right now.
I worry that over the summer we will get an influx of foreign players and I want a British core to the team.
I won’t lie to myself and say I have expert knowledge of Villa and Benteke. A player does not set his price. Some players sink at a higher level.
Maybe Villa was his level. Maybe Southampton was Lallana’s level and Swansea was Allen’s level. Maybe Sunderland was the level of Mignolet and Henderson.
Caulker comes in and can’t get a game in central defence. Joe Allen. Where is he?
I worry that our players don’t play as a team. Where is the Beardsley or Whelan? Last night I was shouting at Origi for not passing to Benteke who had a possible open goal. Later I saw Benteke do the same. Why don’t our players “stay cool” and look up and either shoot on target or pass to the player in a better position. Which member of our team is genuinely happy to create an assist? To set up goals.
I am quite positive.
I thought our young teams have done really well and it was a fantastic performance last night. I would happily argue that if Origi or Sturridge started instead of Benteke we would have won the game. Kevin Stewart is growing on me. As is Ilori and Teixeira. Lucas looks like a great defender and got me talking about Mascherano of Barcelona when anyone came within earshot. The one touch fast football was great to watch.
Seeing three strikers on the pitch was certainly exciting but I do think we lost some impetus at that time and handed some initiative back to the Hammers.
Looking forward with our best players coming back from injury and a great pool of quality youth in the wings – the future looks red.
Sturridge looked like the best player on the pitch when he came on – by a mile.
Lot of ranting here…
No one trusts Benteke because he is blag. Sturridge just stopped passing to him, can’t blame him for that. I don’t know how guys keep from getting straight up in his face and asking him wtf is the matter with him. He’s that puzzling and poor.
Most of the worst buys have been the British players. The value is in foreign players. If you want the best team, you buy foreign players. That’s just how it is right now and probably will be as long as the homegrown player protectionism exists.
Didn’t see the game and heard they played well. But 4 games against WH, we’ve scored 1 and conceded 7
What this season does is have a familiar feel to it out of the league running. Clinging to hopes of a cup run only to see it ebb away against bog standard teams. We may very much win the league cup (Sturridge fitness depending) but the first decent Europa team we come up against and we’re out.
I was gutted last night, along with everyone else, but today is a new day, bringing forth clarity and distance. There are loads of positives to take from last night:
Ilori: who’d have thought? Great all round performance and fantastic sneaky pen. Just the type of defending we’ve been crying out for.
Lucas: has the great survivor found a new position?
Stewart and Chiravella: What’s not to like?
Brad Smith: Get him in.
Flano: Another 120 mins in his legs.
Coutinho: Great free kick, 60 mins in his legs.
Origi: Legs, game time.
Sturridge: More messiah than naughty boy. Our one world class player.
Benteke: So much happier with Sturridge alongside him. He was actually smiling. Still needs to do better but that may have been his best all round performance in a red shirt.
LESS GAMES. We need LESS GAMES. This is a GOOD THING. Let’s focus on the Europa League. I’d be minded to give some of these lads more game time as the season progresses.
Cracking post mate. Spot on
Decent performance. Was well surprised at how much Lucas bullied their lads. Was well pleased that Illori seemed good against decent opposition.
Stewart & Chirivella where good and inexperienced – it showed (misplaced passes) – but they should be proud, and maybe have a future as squad players.
Texiara – concerns me, he is the most experienced of the kids, played almost a full season at Brighton – needs to take the game by the scruff of the neck – dont think he’ll cut it
Best of all Studge comes on and looks like a World class player (once he changed his boots). The hips dropping, the megs, the dancing feet…like not seeing your favourite child for ages and then – BANG you remember why you love them!!!
I thought the subs disrupted us, and would have maybe left Tex on for a bit to try and feed Studge. Benteke played better with Studge around him…
Origi – obviously needs time to get back into it.
So in a couple of weeks, forward line of Studge, Firmino, Lallana with Coutinho behind… salivating
I’m going to break ranks and say keep up the attacks on Tory bastards in your match reports! :-)
Agreed. West Ham fans have this great reputation but my word are they boring. They were SCREAMING the Gerrard song at one point. Bores me to a point of exasperation. As for that cretin waving his money about, words fail.