PAY or go. It’s not your club, it’s theirs. Supporting a football club is no place for politics. And so on and so forth, the same lines, same arguments, spat out from those that don’t get it, that don’t go, that haven’t habitually forked out for years, decades, generations, to follow Liverpool.
Ever since an estimated 15,000 rose as one amid a swirl of emotion and put two fingers up to more fleecing of fans from the key-holders of the club they love, the naysayers have mocked with depressing regularity, desperate to get their voices heard among a deafening chorus of approval for fans’ actions.
Liverpool’s owners have now reversed their decision on increased prices for next season. They’ve admitted they were wrong. They’ve even said sorry. Where does this leave the many that mocked?
Today alone, Matthew Syed of The Times decided to write a piece headlined “Rip off? Tickets are value for money”. His ultimately unconvincing argument was bizarrely sprinkled with allegations of intimidation at Anfield on Saturday.
Was he there? Did he see it? No. His basis for sharing this claim was a post on a forum he had read. Rock solid reason for belittling a passionate plea for sense from true football fans then.
Syed then proceeded to pick apart the words of a Liverpool supporter of long standing. One who was there. Because he knows better than someone who actually goes to Liverpool matches, it seems. How it feels, what it means. The dilemma of walking away. He’s got all the answers.
Then the usual lines. That there is a big demand. That we don’t have to go, no-one is forcing us. And the best, comparisons with supermarkets. I’m a big supporter of Asda, personally. Still waiting on a season ticket but what a supermarket. Think about it every day; obsessed by their actions. Need to know more.
Similarly awful stuff was churned out by someone referred to only as “M.J.” in The Economist. Whoever that might be proffered that Bill Shankly’s “socialist sentiment has no place in modern football”.
Disagree.
Amid other gems such as suggesting “this hurts for a club whose identity is built on its working-class roots in a downtrodden city that has had little else to cheer about”, the initialled one went on to explain how players and agents will have their hands out for TV cash and apparently it should be down to fans to pay. Because we should like it or lump it. Again.
“Clubs will never voluntarily disadvantage themselves by cutting ticket prices significantly,” he added. They will. Liverpool have.
It’s that kind of fait accompli talk that has hindered repeated attempts to make football prices fairer. Thankfully, significant numbers aren’t liking it. Or lumping it. As Ian Ayre and his paymasters in Boston found out.
It’s stating the bleeding obvious, but the loyal fan doesn’t view their club as a supermarket. There isn’t a choice or an alternative. And, within reason of course, they do have to go.
Supporters that have lived a life of going the match have made sacrifices to do it and continue to do so. How realistic is simply expecting us to stop?
Spin the figures however you like, and everyone does, modern football is eating into more of fans’ disposable income than it once did. It’s becoming harder to justify. Harder to go. Many have stopped. Some travel to the game without stepping inside the ground. Creatures of habit, forced outside by greed.
For many it’s the only real social time of the week. And why? Because it costs so much. Other leisure activities have to fall by the wayside for the football fix.
So when year after year the hands go out for more from the club to watch at the match and from TV companies to watch at home, is it any wonder it sparks anger? Particularly when a huge new stand sold as a solution looms over the club’s traditional home.
Liverpool the club, ‘the business’, the people making the decisions, love us: the fans, the people coming through the gate, the people making the atmosphere. At every turn, Anfield’s uniqueness is marketed. Glossy brochures showing a packed Kop waving flags and banners. Websites showing similar. Words of a copywriter pointing to the famous atmosphere in sickly sells to those seeking an experience.
It’s the ordinary fan that created that. Along with mums, dads, nans, granddads and brothers and sisters. They brought along the flags, made the banners, composed the songs and provided the shouts.
And yet the club — while seemingly proud of the legacy of the ordinary fan — was suggesting with it’s original prices for next season that ordinary fans that continued to be edged out aren’t of prime importance.
Pay or go. It’s just a product, just a business. We don’t value YOU — there will be someone else along to provide a bum for a seat. Who cares how long you’ve watched or how much you’ve paid in the past? Can’t afford it now, tough. We want the supporters who CAN. And close the door behind you.
The ticketing of Anfield isn’t easy. There is a myriad of problems associated to any so called “solution”. Any strategy must consider the needs of season ticket holders, the members, the first-timers, the young, the old, the disabled and more. The likelihood is someone somewhere won’t be happy.
That’s a given. But what last Saturday’s walk out versus Sunderland showed is that this time Liverpool had got it *very* wrong. The club underestimated the strength of feeling, the ever-growing disillusionment of fans being asked for more at every turn. They’ve recognised that now.
But twisted thinking in football remains. The theories surrounding this imaginary never-ending stream of fans willing to take match-going supporters’ places were, are, and always will be, just that. No-one can ever know who is prepared to pay what and when. What games do they want to go to? All of them? Some of them? Manchester United at home? Carlisle United at home? Premier League or Europa League? Any, all, or occasional? Midweek or weekend?
Do these fans want to go home and away? Will they sing, shout and preserve the supporter culture the club loves to sell itself on?
The angry throng turning their backs en masse was a wake-up call for number crunchers behind the scenes, and for football as a whole.
Because you can be sure that while beads of sweat appeared on the head of Ian Ayre et al at Liverpool when the thousands of seats flipped back to leave an empty space mid-match, similar fear-induced perspiration would have soaked shirts in boardrooms up and down the land.
It’s only a small section of supporters who will lobby for change, they all said. A few divvies. We can ride this out, they thought.
Liverpool have recognised their mistake and rectified it. They should be applauded for it. So should the fans that made a stand. Now eyes will turn to match-goers elsewhere to push for similar. If Liverpool can do it, why can’t we, should be the question on the lips of likeminded fans across the country (and there are plenty).
The unprecedented actions of the last eight days emphasis the validity of a phrase circulated for years among supporters pushing for change. Simplified from a Jock Stein quote, it has adorned banners, posters and badges of those who have campaigned for fairness: Football without fans is nothing.
Wages, agent fees and the rest should not, and are not, fans’ problem. There are enough structures, governing bodies and suited up executives making decisions around football governance to tackle that mess. Fleecing supporters isn’t the answer.
People who most likely don’t set foot into grounds on a regular basis, let alone understand the culture, shouldn’t tell us all is done and it’s a matter of time before we’re priced out. There’s no need to price people out.
Let those that are reductive about the most passionate pitch it however they like. Liverpool FC is more than grass, bricks and steel. It is more than a business and it is more than the people currently making the decisions.
In fact, it’s best left to a quote I’m channelling as I write. From Bobby Robson.
“What is a club in any case?
“Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it.
“It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.
“It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.
“It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.”
We all fell in love. And that’s something worth fighting for. It’s one small victory for fans, one giant leap for football. Maybe.
‘It’s that kind of fait accompli talk that has hindered repeated attempts to make football prices fairer.’
Precisely Robbo, and let me expand on that: it’s that kind of fait accompli talk that has hindered repeated attempts to make *society* fairer. Which is why we are where we are. Football is nothing if it’s not a microcosm of society.
Well done to everyone involved. Don’t listen to establishment journalists and naysayers: what do they know?
Lovely piece Gareth.
I feel my chest is a little more puffed out today. Funny that.
They all laugh at us, they all mock at us, they all say our days our numbered.
Forza Liverpool.
actually mate, the other clubs are laughing. Liverpool has just handicapped one of it’s main revenue streams and they won’t have to.
Meanwhile come transfer window you will of course be screaming at FSG to stop being so tight.
Careful what you wish for.
It’s £2m. That’s Mario’s wages for 5 months. So here’s a plan: don’t buy Mario, don’t raise the ticket prices, and everyone’s a winner – except Mario, who will just have to pout at a club somewhere else.
What the fuck can you get with £2m anyway? The loyalty of a set of fans that most clubs would give their right hands to have. For £2m. I know a few clubs that would buy that….
Yea coz £2mil is gonna break our transfer plans.
Wise up mate!
Some people are never fucking happy!
The other clubs aren’t laughing. They’re shitting themselves that their own fans will do something similar.
Zzzzzzzzz. £2 million is a drop in the ocean when it comes to signing players in the window.
I know there’s plenty like yourself absolutely devastated by the club’s actions, because you were probably one of the sneering naysayers all along.
I don’t even have any ill feeling towards FSG. They’ve done a lot of good, made a monumental fuck up and have rectified it. Fair play, the only winner is Liverpool Football Club. Let’s focus on on-the-pitch matters.
The only hostility I have left in my body is towards the negative, cowardly people who thought it would make no difference whatsoever, thinking we should all just get on with being ripped off and taken for granted.
10 years ago, 5 years ago ticket sales were importent but not today with the TV Money. That is the point. One of the many problems of tired old cliches like you Jonny is that they do not allow for change. Liverpool have always instagated change, and are the biggest of all the big clubs, (being big is not about money, it about history and respect, in your terms old money vs new) its why we beat A.C.Milan (another big club) in their pomp in Istanbul, its why we are respected around Europe and have been for decades, its why we are boss and you are a jealous, out of touch, out of date, muppet / tory / spineless knobhead.
No one gets their ashes scattered down the aisles of Sainbury’s. We are not a business- we are not a franchise – we are not a portfolio. As Shankly said to the plod kicking a scarf off the pitch That scarf is somebodies life.
Is right. Is 100% right.
I am happy that FSG have admitted their mistake and rectified it. Glad they are leading the way in abolishing categorization pricing too. That is exceptionalism we can all get behind.
I walked out early for the first time ever, first time in 50 years and it felt good. It feels even better today. Proud to be a Liverpool supporter, proud to be a Scouser and looking forward to eventually seeing prices fall – it can be done.
Well done everyone concerned, and it must be said, well done FSG for not just PR spinning this one out.
Brilliant that Robbo.
Well done everybody. A peaceful protest, a time for reflection and finally some sensibility has arrived. Adult resolution all round.
Gareth,
For all of your, and #TAW’s, talk youse have never offered a solution. Not an economic model. Nothing. And because of this fact you will be rightly seen as ‘shit stirrers’, throwing petrol on the bomb fire to service your own agenda of selling more podcasts.
So what is your answer? Your economic model?
Come on.
Why is it up to a football fan to offer an economic solution or model? Without all the facts and figures, how is that even possible? What I know is that a load of TV cash is pouring in and fans are being priced out. There was no need to further raise already sky high prices. And that’s it, mate, I’m afraid, there’s my “agenda”.
SOS did offer models by the way, if that helps. As they had access to the figures.
Gareth.
What a shit answer. You’ve got five full time employees. Sit down and come up with an option.
And what was the SOS model? Why is it a secret? How about some transparency? #publishthesosmodel
Ask SOS. It was roughly around £30 tickets. I don’t have it. Shit answer? Shit question. Busy with “agendas” for anything more.
“Ask sos” ?! You fecking ask them. You’ve had them on your fecking show!
Bob, fuck off.
It’s YOU that wants to know an economic model, YOU fucking ask SOS then.
TAW arnt your errand boys you fucktard!
Are you as demanding as this, between the sheets?
I think you are overestimating the revenue streams and payroll of TAW. When it comes to making money, selling editorial content and podcasts on the internet is up there with taking Corona bottles back to the shop for the refund.
Listen to the show with Jay McKenna or do an Internet search on YouTube for “the Redmen” Show with McKenna from a few days back ya lazy fucker. Have a look at that detailed spreadsheets in regards to ticketing on Rawk and other forums, do something for your self instead of waiting to be spoon fed Soft arse.
The same economic model as Barca. Or even Real. Or any of the other clubs we used to compete with.
There is no profitable economic model in the EPL or Europe if you wish to compete.
“Politics” comes from “politeia”, so things concerning the city, the community – what should be wrong with it?
Aristotele said something like: “If you don’t care about politics, don’t complain that decisions will be made for you!” Still true a few thousand years after….
Congrats to all LFC supporters who fought the slings and arrows!
But watch out: The freeze is just lasting 2 years and should better be re-negotiated after that time and not just scrapped entirely. Make sure you get their word on that!
The fact is this is the bare minimum that FSG should do. We were royally ripped off this season, and still will be next. It’s a clever, practical move from the owners to head off bad PR and change the narrative.
People really need to see the wood for the trees on this.
If FSG are serious about valuing the fans (and for gods sake please don’t kid yourself and believe Mike Gordon’s weasel words for a second) then let’s see some meaningful discounts – £100 off each ST, and a 2 year freeze would be a material concession. This is pure window dressing, nothing else.
As for the end to categorization – let’s see the devil in the detail. Will Category A games come down to the level of B and C or will they be leveled up? Anyone want to take a bet? And if there is some marginal leveling down across the board, why isn’t there a corresponding decrease to season tickets?
And finally, as regards the sniveling, insincere statement of apology – on behalf of the people who have already been priced out and will continue to be so – do one, Boston.
Careful what you wish for. A better owner than FSG would have to be an oil rich tycoon / sugar daddy who didn’t care about money.
FSG have spent Abramovich levels of money to try to get LFC competing. They didn’t have to do that, putting all the money in. They could have said we have to be like Spurs and spend at that level.
But of course you would have run them out of town if that happened.
Your entitlement attitude has a strong stench to it.
You really need to do your homework before you come on here trolling. “Abramovitch type spending ” ……the clueless one
Well done FSG.
Despite their mistakes that sadly had to happen to precipitate this, the big picture is that FSG are the first club owners to listen to fans’ wishes for fairer ticket prices. It makes me proud to be a Red to have Liverpool taking such an important role, in what will hopefully be looked back on as a watershed moment.
I’m proud to be a Liverpool fan, not because this means we have the best owners, although they’re not bad lads in fairness.
No, I am proud to be a Liverpool fan because this again shows that we have the best fans, we are the best club, and that we demand the best from the owners and everyone involved, and on this occasion that FSG have obliged.
We need to keep on demanding the best, because we are the best, and I think Jurgen is the man to give us the best on the pitch in future too.
When the Reds win by freezing ticket prices we all win.
WTRWBFTPWAW
Fairer ticket prices??? They’ve been frozen not reduced, they weren’t fair in the first place! Let’s see some meaningful price reductions please.
Gareth, I love u m8, but the tone of your piece just feels wrong to me. After the way FSG reacted, I really think the piece should have simply read, “Thank You. We’re glad you finally get it. Let’s move forward together.” Respectfully, I understand the passion m8, but with supporters having gotten the response they – by the majority of accounts – wanted, the “We freaking told you we weren’t kidding” reaction just seems sour grapes.
That’s my point. You can’t just moan and stir the shit up. Come up with a viable alternative. Why preach about how LFC should be ground breaking in their ticket prices but have no suggestions?
It isn’t your point, Bob. You just want to railroad things with petty pops at us. As usual.
Bang out of order! We always hurt the ones we love most.
Here I’ll start you off :
1) LFC should scale back the amount of season tickets – a compromise for the club seasy holders don’t spend money in the ground
2) The more times you go the cheaper the ticket – compromise for ex seasy holders rewarding loyalty with cheaper tickets
3) Sit anywhere in the Kop policy. One for Russ Abbott fans.
4) ‘Non corporate ticket’ price cap. One for first timers / occasionals
5) Charge away fans what ever they charge us. One for the league. They charge us £60 we charge ’em £60. They charge us £20….you know the rest.
There.
Did you read the articles or listen to the podcasts? There was suggestions and proposals for 13 months and as was said, and surly it’s up to the club to put those solutions in place plus the very fact they’ve back tracked and apologised totally fucks your point right off??
Don’t understand internet loons. Whats the point? Surely theres better things to do with your life than harrass TAW.
That one the other day on about drug fuelled match reviews and the £5 subscription to TAW player being the same as a £77 ticket.
Get that media is bound to be criticised but i dont regard TAW as mainstream media. Its by fans for fans just that its snowballed to having a farely big influence doesnt mean its changed. The easy solution is if you dont like it do something else.
The prices are still high, Mike. A love and cuddles piece wouldn’t have reflected how I feel. It’s great they listened. Hopefully it’s just the start.
I hear you Gareth, and understand that view. Question for you though (because I don’t know the answer to it) – did FSG inherit the current pricing structure, or have prices moved up since they arrived? I ask because now that we see they are willing to react following the protest, and assuming the structure was inherited, does that give supporters hope that FSG might be willing to move a bit further toward actually lowering prices?
They introduced their own structure, with the price tiers and so on.
I dunno mate, I think they know they fucked up and it was just a backpedaling/facesaving exercise now
Let’s not forget the crap that Ian Ayre the lifelong Liverpool fan was coming up with a week ago. And Ayre’s just a puppet, he was doing exactly as the owners tell him
If the walkout didn’t happen they would’ve happily fleeced the fans and they wouldn’t have even blinked
‘If the walkout didn’t happen they would’ve happily fleeced the fans ‘
There’s no denying that. They are fleecing sports fans in the US for every penny with zero qualms – people over there are amazed we’ve actually won this concession – and it is just a small concession but proves that unity is strength.
I still think the only real way to achieve big changes is for fans to stop renewing their season tickets. However, there can be no doubt that the walkout was a huge success.
Collective responses require people to make individual decisions. Enough made that individual decision to leave and that is why it resulted in action. Hicks and Gillett would not have lasted as long, nor would they have been able to do as much damage, had fans acted like this back then.
Liverpool fans need to realise that they have the power to make all tickets more affordable, this Summer. It can only happen if enough individuals take the tough decision not to pay up this Summer though.
The revised ticket prices still represent shocking value for money. If I lived in Liverpool and was able to go to the match, I wouldn’t be happy paying more than 380 quid for a season ticket. 20 quid per home game seems fair. That still wouldn’t feel like much of a bargain though.
As for FSG, they should probably be looking for a scapegoat to sack now. The top brass should be looking to put as much distance between this whole shambles and themselves as they possibly can.
It’s in their interests to give the impression that one of their high-ranking employees blundered terribly, rather than letting fans feel that the mistake was theirs and that they were strong-armed into a retreat.
This is a dangerous time for them. They have just allowed supporters to realise how much power they (the fans) actually have.
Do you want to compete? Arsenal’s matchday revenue is almost 3x ours. Did you realise that?
Do you realise that the cost of living and wages are higher in London?
John W Henry speaking in June 2012: “While a new stadium or an expansion of Anfield is beneficial over the long-term for the club, the financial impact of adding seats and amenities should be put into perspective. That’s why I say that it is a myth that stadium issues are going to magically transform LFC’s fortunes.
“Can Liverpool as a community afford Chelsea or Arsenal prices? No.
“Building new or refurbishing Anfield is going to lead to an increase from £40M of match-day revenue to perhaps £60-70M if you don’t factor in debt service.
“That would certainly help, but it’s just one component of LFC long-term fortunes. Our future is based not on a stadium issue but on building a strong football club that can compete with anyone in Europe.
“This will be principally driven financially by our commercial strengths globally.”
at least FSG stood by that 2012 words (after this latest announcement, at least).
Think of Disney brand. A global brand, one recent report ranks it as the #1 brand in terms of quality (may not be #1 in value).
Anfield/Stadium = Disneyland theme park; physical location
Full-house, happiness inside the stadium, noise, colour — all needed to continue to drive and sustain the brand image globally. Courtinho, Sturridge, Allen, Flanno, Lucas, Ibe, etc and all are our version of Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. (thank goodness; stevie and carra have retired… : -)
Yes revenue stream from this ‘disneyland’ themepark is important; but as a Brand, bigger revenue stream will come form across the world, from big corporate brand sponsors, from merchandise sales, from image rights, from movies — Star Wars; Toys Stories; etc — Klopp is our Star Wars lead star….may the force be with the Reds!!! May our Micky and Donald make us smile….
Liverpool Football Club, you made me proud tonight!
The last time that I shed a tear on football was 1989..
That is how it is, that is all..
For FSG to do a public you turn – fair play to them. Not many ‘company’s’ would do this. The £77 ticket was the crux of the problem (albeit symbolic) and this has now been resolved. A great example of what can be done when we don’t act like sheep and again, fair play to FSG, it shouldn’t be under estimated how unusual it is for an entity like this to do such a u turn. Let’s all move on now and get behind the team and Klopp.
Exactly. Kudos is due to both sides here. Us fans for taking a stand obviously but also FSG for holding their hands up. This is not a person but a public business entity. When you discover you’re wrong, what do you do? Refuse to accept the truth? Or change your mind? Straightforward answer isn’t it?
But companies will always tough it out until monetary or regulatory pressure forces change.
As always the proof will be in the pudding. Will the next 12 months plus see Spion Kop and SOS allowed to have the input into these issues we all hope? Or is it a damage limitation PR exercise. ? I hope that it is the former but can’t honestly that I have no concerns.
I think it’s a good thing FSG did what they did today, but this argument is coming up again in two years. So please excuse my incredulity at some of the reasoning here. A club is not a supermarket, yes, but a ticket is a product. It’s a product in extremely high demand, as everyone who’s ever sold his for more than face value understands. To equate passion for LFC with purchasing a ticket to Anfield is insulting to many. Going to the ground is not the same as supporting the club. You can support LFC from elsewhere. Half a billion of us do it every week.
At some point, some of those millions are going to want to take their place at Anfield. That may require some who have been going a long time to give up their places.
There’s zero risk of “football without fans” at Anfield. All maintaining the current system does is ensure the same fans remain in the ground and new fans – yes richer ones and yes many foreign ones – won’t get in. You can call that protecting the long going supporters – and it is. But at some point you have to accede to demand. That’s complicated. But today provided no solutions.
The biggest risk of footy without fans at Anfield is if we stop trying to compete with other big clubs. You’ve seen it with the likes of Leeds, Forest and many others.
If you force the club to reduce its earnings, that is more likely to happen.
Let me see if i understand you. Local less well off fans should be priced out so that on the occasion , sometime in the future, that you want to attend, you can get in. Not sure your getting it to be honest.
I’ve been to Anfield several times. Paid above face-value for my ticket each time. Given how common that experience is, there’s clearly demand – locally, nationally, and internationally – that far exceeds the supply of tickets now. It’s also clear some locals have no problem with high ticket prices when they’re being sold to “day-trippers” and “bucket-listers.”
If you set the entirety of your pricing structure – all the way up to the scuttled £77 matchday tickets no less well off person is going to buy at £59 anyway – according to the needs of one subset of your fanbase, you’re closing off access to the rest who may be willing/able to pay more. That’s neither good business nor good stewardship of a money-losing club.
Put differently: if not via pricing out, how do you move on long-entrenched fans to create room for new ones – local, working class, or otherwise?
You’re right, there is a huge demand and we all know it.
One of the arguments, and a good one at that, is that if you’re replacing you’re regular, atmosphere contributing (if you can call it that, but the club loves to sell our atmosphere so let’s stick with that) supporter/s with mostly day trippers then that unique selling point will bo longer become a selling point, because the ground will become soulless.
No long term solutions were provided, but when the time comes in a couple of years I’d like to think FSG will not want a repeat of last week again, and that they will be a lot more engaging and understanding of supporters’ concerns.
And JonnyS – stop with your agenda, you sound like that Mail journalist. The club has been “forced” to lose £2m, that’s nothing in today’s terms. Once dead wood have been cleared, think Enrique and Balotelli for instance, we’ve recouped that back and more. They get enough dough from TV deals and sponsorships.
I agree £2m is nothing. But the “no more money from supporters” principle that SOS and SK1906 articulate is unsound. In its best years, LFC balances its books. Its costs are going up, not down. So revenue has to increase. Given that there’s incredible demand for tickets, that’s a perfectly reasonable place to get it. Freezing 20% of your revenue stream is not sustainable long term. Cutting that revenue would be irresponsible.
What’s the point of maintaining the atmosphere as a “selling point” if you can’t, you know, sell it? Why would the club say “Come experience this amazing atmosphere” and then have no way to charge people more money for that experience?
Revenue is increasing every few years through the new TV deals and next season will have the added bonus of more seats.
Anyone wanting FSG to ‘do one’ after they did the seemingly unthinkable and actually listened to fans needs a reality check. No owners would be perfect – unless it was a fan consortium, obviously – so the fact these lads had the guts to put their hands up and make the switch says a lot. We had Statler and Waldorg before – remember them? The key now should be unity across the board, and I’m sure Klopp will say the same. Unity, and some more fucking volume and songs because when it’s turned up, tough shit to any visiting team playing in that hallowed ground.
Shall we sing about another budget priced injured player getting stretchered off or yet another basic error from a kid who is only here because he might return a healthy profit when he is sold on?
After you mate. You come up with song, everyone else will pay through the nose to sing it.
LOL. What exactly are we supposed to do with young players? Loan them out over and over again ala Chelsea? What happened to give youth a chance? I’ve been reading your comments and I think you need some Zoltoft and maybe some valium. Certainly something mate because you sound like some combination of spoilt teenager and overwhelmed suburban housewife.
The question is really “what happened to ” You win nothing with kids ”
But you seem to have been brainwashed that the club exists to give youth a chance. They have always had thier chance by proving themselves in the U18 and U21. As Gerard did and every other club does
You sound like an FSG share holder who knows fuck all about English football.
Great article Gareth, the fans that stood up should be dead proud tonight, it’s not about winning or about point scoring against the club it’s just about the club seeing sense and doing the right thing… Up the Reds…
THANK YOU!
– FSG
– REDs who had taken action
– REDs who had supported
– TAW
– Carra & Roy Evan, etc
– Everyone, really, including Ian Ayre.
– My two mates for walking out from the pub with me on the 77th min.
As mentioned before, this really is a WIN-WIN. FSG did a very brave about-turn, and came out stronger from this. They did listen, not just some lip service. (yes, there will still be complains and haggling on-going, but this is a good point to start together again for the long term future; and value creation in a more ‘inclusive’ way).
We go again.
Well done everyone. Really more than ever proud to be a Red.
Josh, this is exactly how I feel. Although I’m not right in the thick of it like you are. I thought I was just way off the mark for feeling that way.
Mike, I just re-read the announcement on the official site. And somehow, I do believe every line there. (A good PR/Press officer, maybe?). Some of us complained about FSG, but I have always appreciated them as ethical owners with long-term view; different from H&G, and also some ‘crazy’ owners such as Cardiff’s
As you mentioned above, I wont benefit from this decision directly. But, really pleased for the regular match going ‘comrades’ .
Cheers. (possibly, I may get shot at for sounding Pro-FSG here; anyway, whatever).
Great piece of football writing that Robbo
Disagree with this article.
The walkout isn’t what you’re painting it as. Many were very undecided. They walked because others did. That’s just being sheep. Make your decision before hand and I will respect you for it. That’s not what happened.
I think this damages liverpool the club that I want to see competing. To do that it has to become richer, it’s a process, it’s happening because of some very very good owners that you seem to want to attack at every opportunity.
Tickets at £30 deprives the club of £70m over a decade. That’s two top class players that McKenna himself would refuse to give up come transfer window time. Except he won’t admit it. We need that, McKenna just won’t admit it because he’s a politician.
The ticketing special podcast was a very poor one I thought, really turned me off TAW, McKenna couldn’t have been more misleading and more accusatory at FSG whom he clearly has a strong hatred towards despite their massive financial backing of the club which has been on Abramovich levels. Bet you he would never acknowledge that. It doesn’t suit his agenda and backward thinking.
This claim that the £39m seat revenue target had no basis is typical of how misleading Jay can be. Arsenal’s matchday revenue is £95m, Utd much higher, chelsea at £73m. That’s where we trying to get to, why? To compete. Yet you seem oblivious to that. You’re not of course. You’re just deceitful and want to paint FSG as incompetent and in a bad light. You know what we’re trying to compete with but you don’t want to shed light on it to your listeners. You’d rather deceive them.
From the approx £35m matchday revenues, the new stand takes us up to about £60m, the price structure change would have taken that us to £64m. It’s not chump change, it gets us closer to who we want to compete with. Just closer.
Add the Anfield Road expansion and it puts us up to over £80m. We become financially competitive on the matchday earnings front. That’s worth supporting if you ask me.
Not one sentence indicating the purpose of all this. Just a pretence that they have no background to their targets. Painting them as money grabbing greedy corporations.
Unless of course competing is not what you want. Will you publicly state it?
You don’t want to compete with Arsenal or Chelsea or get closer to Utd. But of course you do, you will slam owners who don’t show that ambition, you’ll do it every transfer window. So long as the money is magic’d up from somewhere else you’ll hold back your murmered dislike of these yanks, otherwise it’ll be open day to slam them.
Jay’s already doing this because he’s a used car salesman with a private agenda. Accusing them of trying to call supporters’ bluff, working off spreadsheets (is that a crime in your world now Jay? Guess what, it has the revenue figures for the top 6 clubs on it, probably from every european league). He’ll be careful not to state that FSG have spent Abramovich style to carry this club and try to turn it into a success. Listeners can’t hate FSG if they hear these things and that wouldn’t do at all.
In the new pricing structure, 65% of season tickets were frozen or reduced, 45% of matchday tickets too. Dismissed by yourselves as a meaningless gesture to the point that it isn’t even mentioned.
Sounds to me like they were trying extra hard to protect the core of support with better seats being charged more. What’s wrong with that exactly? You don’t say. It doesn’t suit your very one sided presentation of the facts. So you make out that everyone will suffer. They don’t. Ticket prices for events vary.
Complaints before were that everyone paid the same within a stand regardless of seat quality. Now you complain that seat prices are graduated. There really is no pleasing you, you will complain because that’s what you want to do. You want someone to come in and provide the hundreds of millions for the club but you don’t like them, don’t trust them and will slam them at any opportunity.
The £77 ticket for 200 seats was genius. It’s a tiny number of seats but broadcasts to the world’s global sponsors that there are well heeled fans at this club and they should be trying to reach them. It makes the club money, not from the tickets so much, there aren’t enough of them. It helps the sponsors to hand over gobs of cash. Which we then spend on players. Oh, but that can be magic’d up from somewhere else can’t it. As a side effect, if I can guarantee a good seat for £77, I would book it so I can then plan all my other logistics to attend. That’s a god send, and it’s a damn site cheaper than hospitality or “ticket service companies”.
And the higher prices were protecting the freeze/lower price for the majority of supporters too especially in the season ticket crowd. Seems eminently sensible to me. Guess what, there are richer fans attending. They can pay more and often will choose to. It’s wonderfully redistributive. But I don’t think you mentioned that even once.
Next time FSG have to put their hand in their own pocket for the club, they might just hesitate. They’ve seen the “fan” say we’re not prepared to pay for this. So why should they? Until now, they’ve put in £1 for every £1m the fan used to buy tickets. You’ve been able to buy a new VW Golf for £8,500. Why should they do that again?
And guess what, I AM a customer. Fans all around the world want to connect with liverpool. They do it through merchandise. Why is that scorned? What’s going on in the brain of the Liverpool based supporter?
The only thing I can see is not very pleasant things. Shame.
This really turned me off TAW. I think you should raise your standards.
Correction: ” Until now, they’ve put in £1 for every £1m the fan used to buy tickets”
shouldn’t read with the million in the fan’s expenditure, ie.
“Until now, they’ve put in £1 for every £1 the fan used to buy tickets”.
– You have no idea of the motivations of people who walked.
– No one is “attacking the owners at every opportunity”.
– Two top class players in ten years versus affordable match day tickets?
– Why are you attempting to speak for “McKenna”?
– Abramovich has spent c.£2bn at Chelsea.
– “Add the Anfield Road expansion.” Why? It’s not even certain to happen. From the club’s website:
When you applied for planning permission it was for detailed planning for the Main Stand expansion and outline planning for Anfield Road. What does that mean and what are your plans for Anfield Road?
We have always focused our energy and resources completely on the Main Stand – it’s a very big and very expensive project! We need to make sure we do a great job bringing it to a successful completion before even considering any further changes to Anfield. Then, and only then might we take a look at Anfield Road Stand. At the right time, as with the Main Stand process, a robust research process will be undertaken to ensure there is a sustainable solution, one that works financially, before we could consider applying for full planning permission. Like the Main Stand, Anfield Road is rather complicated – there are services that run under the road as well as a number of other social and environmental issues that we will have to consider when the time is right.
– You’re comparing the revenue of clubs with bigger grounds to Liverpool and London clubs to Liverpool.
– “he’s a used car salesman with a private agenda” – He’s neither. He’s a Liverpool fan who has given up months and months of his own time to try win a fairer deal for fans.
– “In the new pricing structure, 65% of season tickets were frozen or reduced, 45% of matchday tickets too. Dismissed by yourselves as a meaningless gesture to the point that it isn’t even mentioned.” – The structure was freely available. Are we supposed to read it out? And £3 off a season ticket is fairly meaningless.
– “Sounds to me like they were trying extra hard to protect the core of support with better seats being charged more.” – By asking for 18 per cent more from some season ticket holders.
– “You’ve been able to buy a new VW Golf for £8,500.” – Nope.
– “This really turned me off TAW. I think you should raise your standards.” This means we should say what you want us to. It isn’t about “standards”.
If you really believe that 200 £77 tickets say things to ‘corporates’ then you are utterly , utterly fucking delusional. There are many reasons business engages with a football team, not one single time will it be because of the price of a ticket.
Hmm buying the odd shirt/hat on the net and watching the game might make you a customer but you really need to do your homework before posting shite like this.
Great cars Golfs…. A quality product.
Piech, the last VW CEO was once asked ” Why do you employ so many people doing work a robot could do? ”
To which he replied ” Every person we lay off is a car we don’t sell”
There is a notion of social profit. A notion yanks don’t understand.
Just compare Detroit with Wolfsburg.
Great comment. Great.
Great article Gareth but to be fair when was the last time an or the Economist called anything correct. I think it was summed up best by one of the comments below the article.
-An appalling article, written by a clueless, neo liberal, tit.-
mj obviously not Gareth.
Can anyone explain to me why a table tennis player is chiming in on football ticket prices and why his opinion is being given credence? Have I missed something here?
“…a downtrodden city that has had little else to cheer about.” What a shitheel. I’d rather be dead than be that West Ham bell who was waving his wad of cash about.
Man. It’s the Red Sox. Maybe it’s a coincidence that FSG learned that, a United fan base can do absolute wonders.
New England is a weird place. Boston particularly so. The Red Sox have been around more than a century. They are an American Institution so much as Liverpool is a Scouse Institution. These are icons, monuments to the sports they represent.
I wonder about New Castle supporters. Are Mike Ashley manages to be scum within an elite club primarily made up of absolute bastard s. Do you think this helps them? Does this serve as their Riddle Crowe moment and the revolution begins? Or do they sigh, look what they have, look at what happens when the club’s moneymen simply listens. I’m glass half empty. I suspect many geordies might feel a little bit half empty too.
But FSG showed something I’ve known for awhile, they are in the business of making money. They are capitalism to the core. They are a key cog in the beast that is Corporate America. I can’t say for certain but I have a hunch it’s Corporate England and the Proletariat be dawned. I don’t know our owners personally. Reading that letter. It’s more than an apology in a way. FSG brought us Klopp. They realized the once fantasy stadium idea. Bravo to FSG and Bravo to the supporters. I’ll admit if that was my first game at anfield I definitely would have staid. But that’s neither here nor there, the fans won. Liverpool FC is worth a lot of money. Why? Because investors see the possibility of the vast markets that haven’t been tapped. The owners got it. They want to win.
We want to love.
So often a conflicted impossible civil war. So many Sportsdirect signs. So much heartache.
Faith is an amazing thing but belief is even better. I believe that the fans have demonstrated that Liverpool FC is a community, it’s an escape from the mindlessness of work-a-day life. A thousand reasons can explain FSGs mistake.
Mistakes in life are often opportunities to become closer, to show the owners owning a football club might be a lark, but being entrusted with the duty to make sure Hope in Our Hearts of a rekindling of a powerful tool. Support. Support with your heart (aye and your wallet too but let’s pretend) and see it reciprocated.
Main Stand. Maybe a fitting name for this event.. The fans took a stand and the people who never listened decided to take a seat at the table.
Today was a good day. YNWA.
I feel proud today. Proud of the fan for reminding the owners we’re offended when they think of us a customers. I’m also proud of the owners for having the humility to reverse their decision and write such a gracious letter to the fans.
My only wish is that the SOS/Spion letter had been equally gracious.
You’re all deluded. This is nothing like a victory. When other clubs are already freezing prices due to the massive TV income boost, LFC have merely done as the others have.
This is classic political manoeuvre; ask for a lot more than you want, then wind it back if there are too many complaints. They have tricked you all. The billions in TV money stays with them and the players. Not one fucking penny goes towards reducing fan pricing.
The reality is ticket prices should have gone down. If you’re patting yourself on the back, you’re part of the problem and have just lost a massive opportunity to use fan power to get prices down. It won’t come again, fools!
The fans have momentum. Walking out each home game will send them a message. Prices can come down, new money has it covered already. Don’t forget that!
Hopefully the organisers of last weekend see through the bullshit you lot choose to ignore.
So often the proles are only too happy and easily pleased when the bosses throw a few crumbs.
The £2m and the revenue stream from the tickets was a show of character, it just proved what many already knew. And that is its all about maximising the revenue streams. Buy why?
Wecare told its so we can compete with those with higher financial resources.
HOW THE FUCK CAN WE COMPETE WITH THOSE CLUBS AT THE TOP WITH GREATER REVENUE STREAMS WHO ARE OPERATING AT LOSSES?
With our superior scouting ability? With cheap kids? How?
FSG are here to make money. To profit. If they loved Liverpool ( the city) or football even, they have a funny way of showing it.
Fuck them. The ” naysayers” were saying years ago FSG were here for profit and the club would end up turning in a profit whilst being bona fide mid table nothings.
The naysayers were right. The naysayers cared enough about the club and city to say so.
The gimps and sock puppets are just pleased they have somewhere safe to park thier cars.
The above Paul is a knob.
As has been said repeatedly, this is a small victory and only the start.
FSG have surprised everyone with the speed of their U turn, the message was received “loud and clear” and we can applaud them for this action and discuss future plans now.
Yes Liverpool have lead the way, this is still the beginning, Football Clubs are starting to genuinely shit it, We have MP’s debating it in parliament, Fans Societies, both individually and collectivity looking at their options for protest and discussion. We now have the German fans following suit as they believe they are being ripped off as well, See Dortmund tennis ball protest.
Realistically prices are not going back to the previous standings pre premier league, but they can be made far more manageable for the common man and his family wanting to watch their team.
The internet never ceases to amaze me. This was a victory for collective direct action. How can any football supporter find fault with that? It’s a beginning, not an end.
Spot on, Paul. Let’s focus on the positives and move forward together…
Matthe Syed was on radio 5 last night being unbelievably condescending about the ‘kind’ of people who watch football and basically how they should be grateful they are allowed into the ground, it comes to something when henry winter is the reasonable one.
Finally, some food for thought. FSG owns the the Red Sox and Fenway Park. The Red Sox are worth untold amounts of money but because of market saturation, the limits of popularity of baseball and years of winning trophies…there is very little return for investment in the Red Sox. Liverpool is an entirely different story. H&Gs utter lack of well, intelligence means that the real money to be made is through the expansion of access to the marketplace for overseas sponsorships and similar marketing based opportunities.
The other thing to keep in mind is Henrys unhappy experience with the now Miami Marlins. To be honest they tried to do it the traditional way (tight payroll control etc and failed.
To repeat: our owners want to make money from their investment. Fair play. But they also have stuck by pretty much every promise they have made and so when they say that the best way for them to make money is to win on the pitch, I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Every promise? We are mid table and the football is dire. Or was that a promise I missed?
Remember 14/15? Yeah. But when that didn’t work the next year FSG stumped up cash to grab Firmino. When it became clear there was a chance to grab Klopp they didn’t wait but fired Rodgers and immediately replaced him with a truly world class manager. It was ruthless and looking at the managerial positions now open, it was probably our one and only shot.
Another point to people whining about Liverpool making a profit well, I suggest you check out FFP. If we want to buy another Firmino we HAVE to at least break even.
I’m not saying fsg is perfect, but no matter where you their motivations may lie it’s clear they understand the aura of the club and are now acting much more aggressively overall got Klopp got new mainstand. Willing to spend…Jesus give them sort of break or go have dinner with Mike Ashley or that Malaysian fellow who owned Hull. I’m sure you would love the discussions about how to squeeze every pound out of supporters.
Excellent details, Matthew. And Yes, I appreciate FSG as ethical and responsible owners, with long-term view. (and I am thankful that they are our owners, as compared to H&G and Cardiff type who might change our logo, color etc etc; Yes FSG may not be perfect, who is?, but they rank among the best and most sensible and honest bunch. I start to think John Henry as an older/mature gentlemanly academy award winning movie star of Wall Street II : -)
FSG bought one of the biggest names in football for a song. A mere 300m…they spend 130m on a stand for corporate wealth, and you think we should all be shaking FSGs hand? They cashed in every player with value, whilst making no official comment on what they pay for players. Why is that? They made no comment con the private court case with RBS or the court settlement with Gillet and Hicks. They hired Rodgers, finally replacing him when it got so dire his position was untenable and finally got a manager with experience, only to do nothing in the window except offer a ridiculously low price for a target.
And we are mid table, so I understand your comparison with Newcastle and fucking Hull.
Personally I compare LFC with Barca, Real, Munich and other European Royalty. because we won it 5 times.
Newcastle! Hull! Cardiff!!! Fuck off.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/11/premier-league-away-ticket-prices-cap-tony-pulis
Have to laugh at some of the comments on here, caring more about a couple of mill going into the coffers than preserving what makes this club unique… Our fans. You can do one and take your muck down the east lancs, there’s a couple of clubs down there that might suit you better.
Great stuff as always Robbo, heart on the slieve in every article and podcast.
It’s ridiculous that this thread has turned into a row. The protest was clearly justified and the result was fantastic for the fans and the club as a whole. Save your ire for when people like me are moaning about Klopp.
Oh meant to say, your YouTube stuff is brilliant. Every one comes across as likeable and genuine. Which is complete opposite to the pods.
#justsaying
…And with that, Caesar withdrew his thumb and retreated into a lavish ante-chamber within Circus Maximus. The tearful gladiator fell to his knees and gave thanks, while the mob continued to bay.
So now that we have seen some compromise from FSG, the fans really need to step it up on match days and prove that they can supply the fabled atmosphere that has been all but lost in recent seasons. I’m sure Klopp had strong words for the owners about this and probably told them he needs the 12th man if he’s going to succeed. Let’s make him proud.
I wonder what would happen if:
The Club used the opening of the new Main Stand as an opportunity to break with the past by cancelling all current Season Tickets and putting the current holders of those tickets, along with everyone who has been on the wait list for 10 years or longer, into a pot and do a random selection for an all new population of Season Ticket holders. But don’t stop there…
Make all STs only half season — 2 groups: 10 games and 9 games. It would give twice as many people the opportunity to have the privilege and convenience of not having to buy General Admission tickets for individual games. Find a way to allow people to sit with groups of friends. There are smart computer programmers who could code such things.
It would be a very hard adjustment for many, but it would be more democratic. Some would scream “But what about my loyalty all these years?!?” Well, rewarding loyalty doesn’t seem to have helped the atmosphere. Maybe radical change is needed. No longer would anyone have a birthright to a ST. No longer would groups of people who have monopolised a seating area year after year — and frowned on others who they considered outsiders — be able to control the mood. New friends might be made as people find themselves sitting near new faces. New people with fresh enthusiasm might be less intimidated to sing along or even start a song. Many think our squad needs fresh blood; maybe the makeup of our fanbase at Anfield does do. Clean sweep. Write a new story, as Jürgen Klopp said when he first arrived.
And along with no more categorisation, no more points system that creates an artificial glass ceiling for GA ticket buyers. Just open it up wide for anyone who wants to buy tickets. But make a substantial number of tickets available only to be purchased by those with Merseyside postal codes, while having other smaller set-asides for fans from more far-reaching counties. Open sales up more broadly if they don’t sell out by a given date.
Create a legal, secure electronic ticket exchange so fans can safely sell at face value or exchange tickets with one another if they can’t go to a given game. Again, there are smart programmers who could code this stuff securely.
Ooooh… These ideas will make a lot of people really uncomfortable. It wouldn’t solve all the problems. It might not solve any problems. But it would shake things up and make people less entitled, more aware of the rare privilege it is to enter the turnstiles at Anfield. Give a lot more people a fair chance.
I wonder what would happen if…
It won’t, so…
It should, so…
The current situation rewards and further entrenches the atmosphere destroyers, the aging moaners. Over time the population at Anfield will increasingly become predominantly middle-age bitter men and OAPs who are unwilling to let the younger generations in.
TalkSport reported today that 55% of Liverpool seats are STs. Entrenched. Static. More and more disaffected, thinking “Don’t anyone dare call me a ‘consumer’ or ‘customer’ but damnit give me ‘value for my money’.” Some with no scruples about trying to claw back a few extra quid by releasing their tickets to touts who resell with a markup. Another 15-20% of Anfield seats next season will probably be corporate and retail Hospitality. Another 10% probably OOTs and ‘tourists’.
Misdirecting rage at decent, honourable owners who in good faith are trying to build a sustainable long-term financial foundation. Lusting after conscience-less oil barons and alleged murderous criminal oligarchs, or truly greedy amoral men like the Glazers and Stan Kroenke, who in actual fact ARE living off the backs of the clubs they own and pretend to care about.
Lusting after and rationalising and justifying ever more greedy and obscenely spoiled 20-somethings who largely think they’re something they’re not, and mostly can’t excel at the one job they actually have — kick a ball around for about 15-20 hours a week, as they laugh in their ultra-luxury cars all the way to the bank.
Jürgen Klopp happily deposits £7m per year, or £21m over the 3 years of his contract. In May 2015 Andy Kelly reported that Liverpool FC first team players receive (I won’t say ‘earn’) an AVERAGE of £67,486 PER WEEK, equivalent to about £3.51m per year. Meanwhile, the average ANNUAL salary of a Liverpool resident is £23,582, and I think it’s fair to say they are indeed ‘earning’ that meagre amount to house, feed and clothe their families and somehow manage to pay for football. Last season my friend spent about £400 for one trip to Wembley for himself and his young lad — tickets, return train, one night low-priced hotel, food/drinks, programmes. We lost.
These numbers and the hypocrisy inherent in what they represent boggles the mind of anyone who stops for a minute to think about what they really mean. But somehow we convince ourselves that it’s worth it as long as we can have a few memories to hold on to.
Yet … I love football as much as the next person … so the blinders are back on and bring on the next KO. None of us want reality to mar our dreams or our memories.
People have been waiting almost 20 years for the chance of a season ticket. And they were charged £5 for the ‘privilege’ of staying on the waiting list. You think they should be told to forget it now? And what about those recently taking up season tickets? It should now be plucked from their hand after that wait? The club won’t be scrapping season tickets. And the “entrenched”, the “static” are fans who year after commit to significant sums, usually before the season has barely ended, with no idea of how the next season pans out. This idea that thousands will be scrambling to get into Anfield is dependent on there being decent football and something to play for. Not always the case. Liverpool’s 55% figure for season tickets is hardly unique, either. Other clubs in the Premier League: Villa 52%, Sunderland 54%, Newcastle 61%, Bournemouth 61%, Arsenal 61%, Spurs 62%, Southampton 63%, Man City 65%, West Brom 66%, Palace 66%, Watford 67%, Chelsea 68%, West Ham 72%, Everton 72%, Manchester United 73%, Leicester 73%, Swansea 74%, Stoke 74%, Norwich 81%.
My points in this little silly exercise are 1) think outside the box; 2) confront our own hypocrisy instead of misdirecting hatred at something that is actually trying to help us, while remembering that nothing on this mud ball we call home is anywhere close to perfect; 3) there really are some bogeymen out there but they aren’t at Liverpool; 4) if we must focus blame, let’s at least try to target the real culprits — endlessly greedy players (and their rat-agents) who suck our life blood and for the most part give little if anything in return; 5) try to say something that hasn’t been said and regurgitated a zillion times before.
And I know all those other percentages for STs at other clubs. We are near the bottom of that particular table. One of my professional colleagues who lives in Los Angeles told me proudly yesterday, “I’m down to waiting only about 6 more years for an Arsenal ST.” I said “Why would you want to pay for one when you live 6,000 miles away? He replied “Oh, I’d use it for 2 big games a year and sell the other games for a sweet aggregate profit toward covering my travel expenses.” Who are we fooling…?”
BTW, there’s something wrong with your CAPTCHA code thing-y. It tells me I’ve entered the wrong code even when I’m certain I’ve entered it exactly correctly. Has happened many times over months of posting comments.
Reading the article in light of todays news. this line is a top, top line.;
I’m a big supporter of Asda, personally. Still waiting on a season ticket but what a supermarket. Think about it every day; obsessed by their actions. Need to know more.