I LOOK across on 65 minutes or so and Raffy Gutmann, aged six, at his first final, is in tears; tears rolling down his cheeks. He’s in tears and really it isn’t unreasonable. I have no solace to offer. None whatsoever.
If I was six years old I would be inconsolable as well at that moment. I’m 35 and I’m going to need a lot of consoling now after penalties.
Liverpool got their equaliser despite the fact they weren’t playing particularly well. They never quite properly got going in the game.
The first half was cagey, Manchester City determined not to get caught on the counter. Liverpool eager to catch them but not too keen to do much else. City’s moment of quality through Aguero resulted in Liverpool’s best moment of quality — Mignolet’s save.
It’s that save that drives you mad when he lets the opener in. He’s a keeper capable of saving what he shouldn’t. And then something comes he should and it ends up in the back of the net.
He isn’t the only man culpable — that Manchester City attack like that shouldn’t surprise Liverpool. But he is by far the most culpable.
The play exploded from there, a game flapping in the breeze and both sides lacked quality — City lacked the ultimate touch, Liverpool the penultimate one. The same lack of quality which has too often been the case in the final third this season the issue.
When Liverpool did show quality they carved out chances and the equaliser comes from three or four of Liverpool’s players showing what they are capable of — the move flowed and despite it needing a rebound the goal was reward enough for the quality of the play.
That made the game flap around even more — City unable to have complete control, Liverpool with half a foot hold.
And yet.
Liverpool stayed alive. They grinded and grafted. Grunted and grafted. Graft was their main asset, 14 players desperate to win for Liverpool, no one hiding.
They walked through 120 minutes of treacle. Nothing came easy for them, the goalkeeper making another world-class save from Aguero which cannot atone for the basic error however much you want it to. Origi denied and then penalties.
We can deconstruct the penalties another time. I don’t understand the takers or the order though I wouldn’t have had Can so what do I know? I know I wouldn’t have had Sturridge either.
What I do know is that we’re heading back north and if it was at all possible, if it were at all socially acceptable, I’d quite like to sit somewhere alone and do some of that weeping. I’d love to do some of that.
I’d love to let my inner six year old weep.
But we need to be grown ups. Football matches sometimes go against you. Some days you don’t play, some days you don’t get going but some days you dig in and you make it work. And still it goes against you.
It doesn’t have to be anyone’s fault. It doesn’t have to be a blame game. It’s football. Pick yourself up. Dust yourself off. Remember and then win the next one emphatically.
Afterwards Raffy was fine. Chatty. Enjoyed the occasion.
It got us all out the house. Got us all in each other’s company. Always the best thing. Always the best bit. Find your own solace but that will always be mine.
Up the homeward bound Reds. It’s meant to hurt.
Agreed Neil. It’s only football. But I’ve got this nagging feeling this is going to be more than just one game lost. The nerve of these lads is flaky at the best of times, whatever else we had to look forward to just looks like it’s gonna be more toil and tears now. This was supposed to be the one that kicks us on to a flourish. All I see now is 2 defeats to City in a week and a horrible 2 legs against the other lot from their neck of the woods. Aston Villa did us no favours.
Nice Neil.
I remember weeping as a 7yr old in May ’77.
Mind you I had the perfect solace that year 4 days hence.
And you’re right mate – is it meant to hurt. If it didn’t, footy wouldn’t matter so much.
Don’t despair Neil. On returning from a pub in Eastern Finland, full or reds, not a City fan in sight, I can report the following:
We showed great spirit today but not enough quality. City have better players and more depth and it showed. Pellegrini got his tactics right today as well. We can take a lot of positives from today: 1) Spirit: so much improved from last season’s spineless semi-final showing and 2) Jurgen should have a good idea about the players he should keep and those he should move on after today’s showing. Moreno and Mignolet (despite his subsequent excellent saves) should fall into the latter category. Milner and Firmino still have a lot to prove (no faulting the effort, more the quality) and Coutinho needs to be more consistent. Henderson’s a worry too. The injury seems to have taken a lot from his game.
We’ve got the right manager, a good spirit and some good players. A good window and we’ll be challenging again next season. Wouldn’t be surprised if that wasn’t Albie’s last game in a red shirt (though that doesn’t seem to be Klopp’s style). You can’t tackle like that. You can’t roll about upfield when the opposition counters either. You’d have thought he’d have learned that against West Ham.
full of reds, obviously.
Interesting that you include Henderson in that analysis. I have always thought of him as a quite limited player and a squad player at best. He is a good lad and full of running, but he’s not a match winner by leadership
or example, and probably never will be. A strange appointment on a number of levels. Okay, . Gerrard was a match winner, but he was not a leader; but he had Carra and Reina to bellow for him. Right now we have only Lucas Leiva to do any geeing up, and, as usual, some pundits talk about his inadequacies despite his being the best CB we have over the last month or so.
We lost the game on penalties, which is galling but a tiny bit mollifying. But how many good saves makes up for a dreadful goalkeeping error? How many do we allow him before the penny drops? If we’d lost 1-0 it would be all we would be talking about. Three great saves, certainly, but your heart is in your mouth every time the opponent gets anywhere near our area. Klopp has now had a look at everyone on our books, and I’ll warrant your list of ‘should be useterbe Liverpool players’ probably won’t surprise him.
All in all I’m not too upset at this season. We can have sone optimism for next season and no cringeworthy crap spouted after every game. Klopp’ll fix it…
Amen to that Kevin. As I posted t’other day, the main difference between this side and 08/09 and 13/14 is the absence of top players to support our one world class player. Torres had Gerrard, Xabi and Mascherano (piano players and carriers), Suarez had Sturridge, Sterling and Gerrard, who does Sturridge have?
Needed something to pick me up off the floor, and this is just the thing. Heartbroken but hopeful. On we go.
I’m weeping, I’m 46 yrs old, this hurts.
Gutted to lose,but the feeling left me when I had my tea half an hour later.Klopp has got a massive job on his hands to turn that lot into a half decent side.
The players we currently have don’t deserve to polish winners medals, let alone wear them. It would have just gone to their heads and not in a good way.
United will knock us out, Chelsea will overtake us in the league and there will be empty seats at Anfield before the season is out.
How does anyone cry over this lot?
Have you ever considered that quite literally everybody knows what we have is not good enough? You’re not a whistleblower by pointing it out. But we cheer them on as though we believe they are good enough because that’s the game.
Not everybody watches football as a masochistic exercise so they can confirm their beliefs online afterwards that they always knew we’d lose.
You have not described the game.
You have described futility.
Did you know life, and time, is a finite, fleeting, precious commodity that shouldn’t be wasted?
so we shouldn’t bother watching footy then.
F*ck me LITVan,
You poison the well here on TAW, you really do.
Great piece Neil. Spot on.
Could have nicked that one. We fought like tigers. Quality lacking for sure but soon sorted.
Much to be proud of.
Up The Reds.
Have to agree with Adrian. The first comment in this thread is definitely poison in the well. Definitely sticking the knife in and twisting it at a moment when we need an antidote, not a dose of bitter arsenic. Bitter is what happens across the park. It’s not fitting for us, especially when we face the same opponent in a few days’ time. Thank heavens such poisonous attitudes don’t have any kind of direct access to our players.
Mind, I’m responding to the tone and feeling of the words and how they make people feel, not judging the person behind them. I think it’s a kind of hell to live inside a mind that thinks that way, and that is punishment enough.
“Mind, I’m responding to the tone and feeling of the words and how they make people feel, not judging the person behind them. I think it’s a kind of hell to live inside a mind that thinks that way, and that is punishment enough.” … Jesus Christ almighty, who do you think you are?
(yeah, you’ve properly needled me here so well in. Top trolling or whatever.)
‘Right boys, don’t walk out onto that hallowed Anfield turf midweek with a vengeful mentality no matter how much losing the final stung. That’d be poisonous. Go out and enjoy!’ The footballers contracted to LFC are all adults. Join us in the real world of grown ups, Ellie.
Tom, no need to respond to any of your replies because they all prove my point quite well on their own.
Fuck you Ellie. It’s not poison, just an honest assessment of how I think this will go based mainly on the emptiness that a defeat in a cup final left me with.
No idea what you’re talking about, Wattsy. My comment had nothing to do with what you said in yours. So please take care to understand the context before you direct words like ‘F*** off’ to an individual.
Watching the shite that passes for football recently is punishment as well.
But you can’t,or won’t see it.
This club wasn’t built on acceptance of shite.
The bitters are bitter because they lose more than they win. Otherwise, they are the same scousers who live next door.
Jesus!……I thought I was pessimistic! This wasn’t worth tears, we were lucky to be in it and their keeper made 2 great penalty saves. What can you do? There’s too much pussy-footing around the box when someone needs to take responsibility to put their foot through the ball now and again. As for Utd….? We’ll see….support the team or piss off and become a Blue.
You could have written that about Leicester at the same stage last season…
My 6 year old was the same,he thought the pens would be a mere formality as we’d beaten Stoke and he thought we were great but pens. Poor lad,what have I done to him? But, he’ll appreciate the next time we win all the more. What can we do but pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and go again.
I always draw strength from these defeats Neil. When it hurts the most, it’s these days I look back on and use to enjoy our wins and trophies more. Lost my dad a year ago yesterday. A true champion, loved him to bits. We went together to the last win against Cardiff and sang and celebrated together. I genuinely thought in my own way this win was gonna come. For him. For mum, for me, for the family. A nice bit of respite from a tough year. But there you go. I told my four year old, who was in tears too there’s always next year. And that’s the beauty there is. Don’t be downhearted fellas. We are lucky. We support the greatest team in the world.
Up the Reds.
Nice one Dan.
I can put up with a largely dull game, I can accept that the other team has way better players than us, and I can even live with losing, really, but someone needs to ask very serious questions of Klopp about the penalty takers. Lucas? Really? What the hell was he thinking? The regular pen takers are Milner and Hendo. Where were they? Where were the strikers? Origi and Studge would’ve been better choices surely? Honestly, I’m angry about it. Still. And I probably wouldn’t be so angry if they just picked a spot and wellied the fucking ball instead of trying to be clever and lousing it up. Arse. Fucking arse.
Understandable frustration but Milner was due on the fifth and Sturridge wasn’t fit enough to take one (he can be quite erratic on penalties anyway).
We don’t know what Origi is like from the spot and I don’t know what happened with Henderson. As for questioning Lucas, don’t forget the Stoke pen he scored, plus he wanted to take one. That’s all there is to go on.
As for as picking the bones out of this one goes, the penalties don’t mean a thing.
Oh come on! Not fit enough to run 5 yards and kick a fucking ball? Seriously? That’s utter bullshit, and you know it.
The reality is Sturridge lacks bottle to lead the line. He’s supposed to be our best player, and he should be fighting to take penalties purely based on his great scoring instinct. But he isn’t. He lacks fight, he lacks spirit and he lacks a spine. He’s still our best striker, but he’s a wet tissue when you want someone to care and fight. After all, it’s only a cup final. But hey, he’s already got more medals than the rest of the squad just from being a bench player at the two richest clubs in the country. He doesn’t care about a shitty league cup medal.
He’s also saving himself for the Euros and another love-in with Woy. Not that it excuses him from being too scared to kick a ball at a net. He certainly complained enough with the expert penalty taker took the ball of Mr Average. That’s what Sturridge should be doing.
Regardless of that, the superior side won. As usual, we cannot score, even against a reserve keeper. And their goal was down to Mr Crap in goal – again.
You may be right in what you say about Sturridge and you may not. It’s very difficult for us to comment on a player’s inner feelings regarding penalties as we just don’t know. However, I totally disagree with your assertion that he doesn’t care. The guy was in tears afterwards.
I personally wouldn’t have wanted him taking a pen. Great striker and great finisher but he strikes me as someone who would likely have missed.
Y
Nothing to be angry or upset about here.Those lads worked their socks off. I’m not Milners biggest fan.But what a shift that lad put in.And what about Lucas?
Mignolet let a soft goal in but then defied 4 absolute certs.
And the penalties? Well you’d have to take one to know in those situations.Some lads just freeze but trust me on this they really want to score.But they get it wrong.
This is not a day to have misgivings about anything.We’ve won most of our penalty shoot-outs and we’ve won this cup more than any other team.So,the odds begin to stack up against us.
You can say what you like about this squad and talk about poor transfers and money spent unwisely.
But one thing you did see today was a team giving everything against opponents who were technically superior in virtually every department.And we came that close.
Just imagine what might happen if we add a few players who will improve the team rather than players who just have impressive OPTA Stat’s.
excellent message, Brian, from true Reds for true Reds. I was disappointed with the result, naturally. But as you mentioned, there were a lot of positives to take from this and grow as a team.
not ashamed to say that I let my 38 year old self have a little weep after the match. YNWA
South park way na na na na naaa
If you’re worrying about whether Klopp thinks Mignolet is a real goalie for Liverpool at the start of next season with this 5 year contract Keyser Soze instead of being absolutely tinned in, you’re doing footy and life wrong.
My advice would be for everybody to take a fucking deep breath and stop cryarsing
Mignolet’s saves have been overhyped. Most of them just hit him. The others were close to his body. If he had let any of them in, people would have been unhappy with him.
If he really has to stretch, he doesn’t get there. He gets a pass on their pens, as they were virtually all top quality.
Mignolet is a disease but we already knew that
It’s disgusting to speak about another human being like that. Mignolet stepped onto that pitch with passion and desire to win for us. People who need to try to make themselves appear taller by chopping off his head by saying disgusting things about him — or any other player in our squad — would crumble in a nanosecond if they had to face the sort of intense pressure he puts himself under for every game. Go have a look in the mirror and ask yourself whether you could ever be half the man he is. No one refutes that his skills aren’t perfect, but he does not deserve to be spoken about in an abusive way. Grow up.
Na I’m not having that, you know what Ellie, I’ll have an argument with you here. I’m sure he’s a fine, upstanding gentleman but I highly doubt his closest family and friends are reading my drunken fume and actually taking my gobshite-just-having-watched-us-lose-a-final words literally. Your bang out of order pulling me up there imho.
‘Shite’, ‘crap’, ‘disease’, ‘dickhead’, ‘an atrocious Liverpool goalkeeper’, etc. I’ve paid to watch him and you know what I paid to very much not watch him when he set his wall up in Speke and still let a nonce in his last game take a shit free kick to go under his hand. How dare you try to hand wring over the tossed off words I use to talk footy. You’re no moral arbiter and you’re also the one who should grow up and prioritise what you’re offended by and what/who you direct your rage at.
You watching the match: “Oh, he’s really… Not good is he?”
Never happened that has it… I’ll wait for your apology.
no cunt takes you seriously you fuckwit. you are like that cunt in the van, massively disappointed in your excuse for a life and deciding to bully anyone who looks remotely optimistic, like Ellie. I hope it is being noted by the mods on here that the only time you fucking post is to denigrate the team, this site or some one you have identified as a target. Ellie in particular.
If you are drunk then you are a waste of ale, you are certainly a waste of fucking breath.
Haha, I’ve smiled twice since the end of the game. The first was when I saw TAW stickers plastered on the Everton badges at the bottom of the steps outside Wembley Park tube and the second was when I read this about the Sunderland goal.
Rubbish! Mignolet is the single repeating factor that’s costing this club results. Stop being offending on behalf of someone else with your faux outrage. He is destroying the rest of the squad with shit performance after shit performance, and therefore, fucking over the entire club. So grow up yourself. LFC is being undermined by one player time after time. He’s a cancer and it’s affecting the whole squad.
He “earns” 2-3x the national average in one fucking week. He has no idea of pressure. He jumps about in front of a ball for a “living.” That’s not pressure, that’s fun! Pressure is not being able to afford the fucking rent, or food, and yet more school fucking clothing; facing eviction, hunger, the ignominy of food banks. Being made redundant and scrapping over the same single crap job against hundreds of other that lost their jobs at the same time is fucking pressure. So spare us your pretentious bullshit.
You think Mig knows any of that? Go and look in the mirror yourself, Ellie.
It’s worth remembering that Lallana, Lucas, Can and Milner took penalties in the semi-final against Stoke. That kind of recent memory of success means it’s reasonable that those lads would be given the nod. (Can missed against Stoke, but was the only one to score tonight, which just shows how hard it is to predict)
I think it’s easy to over-analyse the penalties. The problem, as ever, is the lack of a top quality goalkeeper and a left-back who shares half a brain with Jose Enrique.
I doubt we have anyone capable of scoring more than half the time with a penalty, at the moment. Not even in training. Coutinho’s effort was truly laughable. The goalie just stood there and thought ‘he’s not good enough to do what he’s obviously trying to do. I’ll just stand here and make an easy save when he chokes’.
Milner and Origi emerged with credit. Sakho had to come off. He makes stupid enough decisions when his head is clear (like taking a running headbutt at one of our best attacking players, as he jumped uncontested for the ball).
yes that’s obviously what he was thinking. Now fuck off and worry about your game against Chelsea in the FACup you fucking degenerate.
When have I ‘denigrated the site’, mate? Genuinely interested in what you’re on about there.
And I thought Ellie ‘denigrated’ me so I had I right to reply and defend myself. It’s got nothing to do with you so keep your nose out of it, steve.
I think you’re a very rude and angry person to be calling people ‘fucking degenerates’ for having complaints about players (horrifying I know. Won’t someone please think of the children!)
While I’m here Moreno’s rubbish as well. I suppose that’s poisonous or bullying or being an evertonian or something…
I agree that we should try and keep personal insults out of it but “I think you’re a very rude and angry person to be calling people ‘fucking degenerates” is a bit hard to get behind coming from someone who types “Mignolet is a disease” a few posts above.
If you don’t want insults (I agree with you) then maybe try not to hand them out?
“City lacked the ultimate touch, Liverpool the penultimate one.”
Nuff said. Thanks, Neil.
he has a way with words that one.
As the podcast reminds us so often, we need to occasionally look at what the other team are doing from time to time. The City defense had a brilliant day. Sterling, mercifully, did not.
I am not someone who wants to see Mignolet between the sticks next season, but all credit to him for pulling himself back up.
Whenever I see our play so disjointed, it makes me appreciate all that Joe Allen brings to the side. I’d still like to see him with Can and Henderson in a midfield three.
I also find myself looking back to summer 2014 and how we could have signed Bertrand and Vorm (And perhaps even a Reus or such if we passed on, say, Markovic and Lovren – but that’s getting ahead of ourselves).
I’m glad that people are still patient with Klopp. It’s 34 games now, I believe, and it would be easy to suggest that we haven’t moved anywhere since his arrival. But more than the quality of the squad he’s inherited, I think he’s been hit by so many key injuries – something that doomed Rodgers, and I would hate to see the same thing happen to our current manager.
Yippeee the day is complete the cuntmaster general has made an appearance.
Taking a break from wanking your micro cock over pictures of Brenny to spew some (brilliantly well disguised) vitriol at Klopp.
People are not patient with Klopp walt, (can i call you walt? no. Ok Cunt it is) They realise he has more chance of sorting this team out when he gets rid of your heroes dead wood and gets his own men on the pitch. I would say i would like to see your comments then cunt, but we all know you there won’t be any.
If you scrawl that on a big helium balloon and tie it to a rusty shopping trolley, you’ll probably win the Turner Prize Steve.
Oooh I hope the ‘moderators are taking note’ of your ‘bullying’, steve. Christ you’re a wimp, steve. And a grass, steve… A mignolet apologist as well. Steve.
Jurgen missed a trick with Joe Allen. Should have brought him on to get in and around Yaya. That’s the first time in a long time he’s had a good game against us.
Jürgen Klopp signed a contract for 3 years. He took the job as a challenge. The chances of FSG sacking him at the end of that period are low because — let’s be honest, Klopp is rather unique and there’s probably no one else of his stature who could be persuaded to come to Liverpool if his tenure is declared a failure, especially with Pep at City and who knows where Mourinho ends up.
The chances of Klopp reaching his 3rd year and thinking “I’ve done everything I can do here” and deciding not to renew his contract are higher. Last Friday he said: “When I came here I spoke about how I am the only one who believes in training, all the others believe in transfers. I was not asked how will you work with the team so much as ‘who will you buy?’….Football is about development, football is about training. I have really good players here. I don’t know enough about them at this moment but I know a lot more than I did five months ago. I love in this game, that working together helps. And I would not like in this game that I take this guy from here, this guy from there and in the end you have 11 and then you let them play together and you think it works. That’s not how I understand this game.”
He also said he won’t be afraid to spend big if the right player is available and can be gotten. But we already know that he turned his back on pursuing Alex Teixera. The point is: People who think there will be a big fire sale and wholesale clear-out this summer are probably setting themselves up for misery and disappointment. That is not how Jürgen Klopp works. And the fans will not see him succeed at Liverpool like he did at Dortmund unless they start thinking like he does, understanding his approach to management, and really get behind his approach. If after 3 seasons he feels the fans don’t understand his way of working, he won’t be shy about packing it in and going back to Germany where he IS understood. He’s in it for the love of the game and the challenge, less than he is for the glory — not to say that he doesn’t absolutely want to win.
He sold 13 players in his first season at Dortmund.
Mostly older, high wage players to be fair. Liverpool’s squad was better than the one he inherited at Dortmund.
It wasn’t injuries that doomed Rodgers, it was incessant bullshit and wasting money. Along with being a yes man.
Better to think of Rodgers as a poodle mouthpiece rather than a football manager or leader of men
Just a quick comment, not in the mood to write much.
For our club captain, vice captain and then our best player (not arsed about his pen record) to bottle it in a cup final is a disgrace. And I’m not even going to get started on the fact we only had 1 shot on target after 80 minutes, especially when all week the main talking point was about how shite the City reserve keeper was and that it was confirmed he would start in goal.
MOTM: Lucas Leiva – The fella was absolutely class. His passing out from the back was crisp, his tackling was strong, his heading and positioning were a joy to watch, and he even had the balls to step up for a pen. Good lad.
We can take three things from this game:
1. This wasn’t a capitulation. We competed against a top team and fell just short because of our lack of quality. That’s the difference Jurgen makes: this was a huge improvement on Villa.
2. If FSG hadn’t got the message before, they have now: you can’t keep selling your top players every season and replacing them with cack. Fortunately we have a manager with status who will be very clear about how what he needs.
3. The team spirit is good but the quality is not. It’s now becoming abundantly clear (to me at least) who will make the grade and who needs to be moved on. Yesterday’s performance crystallised our season: lots of hard graft but not enough quality. Too many piano carriers not enough players.
That’s pretty much my assessment Paul. Point 2 in particular is the one to focus on – too many quality players have left in FSG’s time (not all their fault) and they must realise now how difficult they are to replace.
Noone has mentioned in any report I’ve read how we came back from a goal down against the strongest squad in the league who were sitting back and waiting to pick us off on the counter (Migs’ fault that).
Remember Klopp’s comments after the Palace game where we conceded about the same game timestamp? How long had it been that we just faded away after inevitably conceding?
Klopp has had a big impact on that but it’s not a headline so goes unmentioned.
But it isn’t a small thing. It’s massive. It’s the start, the beginning of the road. You have to believe that the work you do gets in something in the game. Then you can add players, coach players, change formations, whatever you like.
Brendan was trying to do all those things but the belief wasn’t there, the come backs weren’t there, the ideas and selections were a problem, the talk didn’t make sense. The creativity disappeared this time last year and then the goals dried up shortly thereafter. No manager feared BR tactically, nor the team.
Klopp has brought creativity back and though we’re still struggling with goals we are able to come back, even against Citeh. And that’s with a less than functioning midfield pair (no, they’re not working well for that position and will not until we have a real DM like Kante – I would break the bank for him).
He’s rushing to get Origi and Sturridge fit again in the last couple of weeks, that’s going to take a bit of time and he has to get Firmino functioning as an AM which is missing from his game right now. He’s good as a false 9 but currently it’s ending there.
And with Klopp wanting a pacey winger he might drop out of the first team to spell Coutinho perhaps (and Tekkers might come in!) at that point.
I do wonder if we shouldn’t have started with Firmino as a false 9 on Sunday. Give’s us more in the midfield to work with and dominate given the numbers they put in there and then bring on Sturridge in the 2nd half, say on 55mins given he’s still not a 90 min player. Migs messed up the game plan for sure as we had to chase the game which gave them all their chances.
But we tried to play wide with non wide players and it showed. Citeh play a strict offside line, so we should have aimed to win throw ins when we went forwards and have a couple of practiced moves to negate their defensive line.
Just hit it against the defender’s legs when out on the wing, get the throw in and throw long(er) because you can’t be offside. That would have spoiled their defensive plan and we scored because we got behind their defensive line – like you do. And has anyone explained offside to Firmino since he arrived?
Klopp is trying to be quite simple in his game. Players find that easier to comprehend though it makes it easier to nullify – pack the midfield, like Augsburg did first leg.
But the quality isn’t quite there. The demanding work rate hurts Milner’s crossing ability (how many went straight to the keeper?) and few others can cross anyway. Henderson loves his easy wide passes but won’t actually make a telling pass forwards and follow it up. Firmino seems to struggle as an AM, Couts tries things but seems like he’s on an island.
That front 5 just aren’t a unit right now, and until they are it’s going to be a struggle to win when it matters.
So, cold light of day, passion cooled and all that. Let’s start from the following assumption: we’ve done a lot of bad business over the last few years but Jurgen’s the man to put that right. If we’re being really ruthless, surgical even (to quote Melissa), who would we keep next season? From yesterday’s starting XI I’d keep the following:
Lucas (as CB), Clyne (just), Can, Coutinho and Sturridge.
I’d keep the following squad players:
Origi, Ings, Markovic (worth a look but get rid if he’s not up to scratch), Ibe, Stewart, Branagan, Flano, Brad Smith, Ilori (give him a close season with the squad), Rossiter & Chiravella,
Question marks hang over Hendo, Lovren, Sakho, Bobby and Kolo. I quite like Joe Allen but Jurgen doesn’t. The rest should be sold and the money re-invested in the squad.
Can’t argue with that list. A bit harsh on Sakho, maybe.
The player I most look forward to coming back is Ings. He has the fighting spirit that was Kuyt’s great attribute. I think he’ll become a fine player for us.
Agreed.
If 40m+ came in from Barca for Coutinho – what’s your answer?
Depends on the market and how we want to set up. He’s nowhere near good enough for Barca at his current level, the coaching staff need to work out whether he has the potential to improve (he looks as though he has a high ceiling to me) or whether this is as good as he’s ever going to be. If the latter then we should sell but I’d rather give him one more season in a midfield three. There are better strikers and wide players out there, he doesn’t have the numbers to play up top.
I reckon Bobby has shown enough in his debut season to merit more time and Klopp likes him, that sale ain’t happening thankfully,
(Ship out Benteke instead ?)
Harsh on Hendo, he’s obviously been playing through the pain barrier this season and even his most ardent supporters have admitted he has struggled, shown enough in two previous seasons imo.
It’s really harsh. I like Henderson & Sakho. Hell, I like Joe Allen. Bobby F worries me, but I could be persuaded. There’s lots of good honest pros in the squad but I don’t see a great deal of potential. We need to be better to compete next season; that means better players.
Cold light of day. :-)
Thank fuck I didn’t come near the site in the immediate aftermath having just gone through the early posts. Some serious vitriol and in all honesty some laugh out loud lines.
I agree entirely Paul although I like Clyne, reminds me of a quick Steve Finnan, caveat though- I think Kloppo does rate lil Joe but the issue is physicality. He’s just not big enough.
Hendo’s heel is a major dilemma it has robbed him of his physical prowess that is his genuine best asset. Would it be detrimental to make Lucas captain next season to take pressure off him? Or would that be a step too far?
I also think Jurgen will lump Lallana into the keep basket.
Just a quick point with regard to Mings – the owners reaction in realtime to the goal blunder was Not Good at all. It won’t take much convincing for an upgrade there now methinks.
Yeah, I don’t get the vitriol. You couldn’t fault anyone for effort yesterday, we just weren’t good enough. They have better players than us and I think Jurgen got his tactics wrong on the day (and Pellegrini got his right). City are a good team with a good manager, there’s no shame in losing to them. It’s not like it’s Tim Sherwood’s Aston Villa.
Go and buy Kante if you can get him and make Hendo the squad player he should be. Even then, Milner is more useful / utilitarian but too old really.
Lucas can’t be CB next season with all the CBs we have, unless we get rid of like 3 or 4 of them (incl youth). Would love him to be player/coach though. No one in the team reads the game the way he does.
Lallana – missed the goal that Couts scored (Adam hit the post first). That is Adam. Against Utd this season and last, and now against Citeh, he’s one on one with the keeper and he misses the goal. He will only ever do it against the bottom half of the table sides. Really really have to upgrade him, he can NOT take the place of a first team player if we want to win.
Keep Clyne, Gomez, Lovren (who has improved a lot under Klopp), Lucas, Milner (as he can’t really be sold on his wages and he’s playing ok enough anyway), Ibe, Ings, Firmino and Origi. Also whichever young players Klopp thinks are worth hanging onto (Rossiter, etc.).
Try to get 110-130 million for Mignolet, Sakho, Moreno, Henderson, Allen, Markovic, Illori, Lallana, Coutinho, Benteke and Sturridge.
Give Klopp that and 50 million on top.
Pray.
I’d like to see a German (or at least Bundesliga) spine brought into the side, including a new captain and vice-captain. I actually think it’s better to allow them to form a powerful and exclusive clique, as the only players that really have the manager’s ear. While this may sound a poisonous atmosphere, this seems to be what goes on at most successful clubs.
Players are not equal and it’s ok for there to be a hierarchy. When Chelsea were good it was Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba. It was their dressing room and they were powerful enough to get a manager sacked or make sure he was protected when under fire.
Chelsea’s team spirit was as strong as anything we’ve had since the mid-80s, when those 4 were Mourinho’s lieutenants.
Our squad is currently just a bunch of guys that are all nice to each other and who start games just hoping that they will win somehow.
Yes, we should definitely keep Joe Gomez. Should have remembered him!
I could quibble that list regards Sakho but it would be the only one.
I think Allen could give us something squad wise but I agree that Klopp doesnt fancy him. Henderson sorry to say, is not it for me. Made captain by BR for political reasons i’ve always felt but I suspect i’m more likely to be signed by Klopp than it is for Hendo to be sold.!
We did okay all things considered. we fought and tried to win it against a superior quality side. We came close. that’s it.
This is the one comment I agree with. Good game, narrow defeat to a good team.
We were clearly the lesser side. Crystal clearly.
The march of progress under FSG continues unabated. Loss is becoming a feeling we are used to.
Looking backwards and pedalling hope.
This is the future that John Henry let Brendan Rodgers “Rebuild” for.
Has anyone else noticed, we keep losing football matches.
That’s the problem when your midfield can’t create, and you have a terrible keeper.
The real question is: who will FSG sell this summer to make up the cash for signings. There are no stars left, and it’s going to be hard offloading the lower midtable crap making up the squad. Countinho doesn’t score enough to be a £45+m player, but he’s the best of the last. The assets have been stripped, and there’s no one coming through to do a Sterling.
No doubt Klopp will be forced to scrape barrels and look in gutters for players. But we’ll sure do a Spurs and throw our name out in “bids” for players FSG won’t sanction their required wages.
We’re 9th, look at the clubs above us, and one bad round of fixtures from 13th – fucccckkking hellll!
Oddly this defeat didnt really hurt me and thats what concerns me most. I should be more arsed. But I dont think I really like any of the players. None of them have any discernible charisma or character, I love the manager though I just wish I loved the team we have currently.
Absolutely right. Part of it is just us getting older, but the players seem such a vacuous bunch of airheaded imbeciles. I don’t really like any of them either. The boss seems likeable, but he’s got to win at the end of the day.
As for the players, may the great eagle shite on the buddha statues their bimbo wives have all installed, in their garish Blundellsands retreats! May the crap urban music pounding in their ‘Beats By Dr Dre’ headphone-covered ears turn into country and western.
Please find us a hero, Jurgen! Not just a great player, but a man with both style and wit!
…on the goal conceded..who was tracking the runner?
Because they didn’t.
£40m for Coutinho???? Where do we sign, over-rated, inconsistent…..not good enough.
ffs, he’s 23. What are you after? We’d all love Alonso coming in or a gerrard coming through but it’s at 25 you need to look at what he’s doing.
After 3 years ??? Oh you know consistency, influencing games….that kind of stuff…
This message board is the epitome of insanity and delusion.
Thanks Neil,
I think we all feel the same.
Every player cant be faulted for effort and commitment.
The problem is quality.
I honestly would have been slightly embarrassed had we won yesterday (id have taken it mind).
We simply did not deserve it because our decision making was, as so often this season, awful.
The Can and Sahko headbutt set the tone.
Sahko should be screaming for that ball…. Situation avoided.
It highlights our lack of leadership in every area of the pitch.
That’s why Lucas and Toure have become important as they know what to do and when to do it.
What this result does is give Klopp carte blanche to rip this whole side apart if he chooses to.
Which player can turn around and say they don’t deserve to be axed at the end of the year?
Not many I’d suggest.
If I see Ward in goal on Wednesday I’d be made up.
I don’t care how many saves he made after the error.
You can’t have a keeper who lowers the confidence in those around him.
I can’t even look at Mignolet now without whispering “tit” under my breath.
We all need to suck it up between now and the end of the season.
Everyone will be on the “Klopp is not that great is he?” vibe outside of our fan base.
But we all know this is not Klopp’s making.
This decline is years in the making.
We all know we will get better under this manager.
He has brought back the belief that we can climb the mountain back to the top of the game, he just needs better equipment to scale the peak.
We all know it and we all know we will have to wait for it.
Suck it up redmen.
Remember all the jibes from Bluenoses and Mancs and put it into the memory banks for later use.
This man will get it right.
He knows what he wants and needs….
Up the reds indeed.
‘I can’t even look at Mignolet now without whispering “tit” under my breath.’
This.
Unfortunately this place is becomming like all the other forums; full of unreasoned aggresssive posts and personal insults. Great shame, because there are loads of other places if you want to read that.
Please TAW, is there anyway to moderate this place to keep it a place of reasoned football debate?
True. How can people be so optimistic and yet so angry at the same time?
It’s like walking around the park saying ‘looks like a nice day’ to strangers, then punching anyone who suggests it might rain later.
Agree with Cheesy,
Debate without getting agressive,
I get that there is a lot of pent up frustration out there but at the same time it’s footie and we’re all Reds (apart from the Ladyvan)
Bit of respect for other viewpoints even if you personally think it’s wank,
Not into the whole idea of getting loads of in/outs again this Summer as suggested by some, maybe a more measured approach for a change as the last two Summer Windows had a blunderbus vibe to them,
With the 2 already signed I’m guessing it’ll be a keeper and 3 more,
Keep the faith,
Klopp is a winner, he’ll get there.
We’ll get rid of 8-9 players – Mario, kolo, bogdan, Enrique, Sinclair, probably joe allen and maybe 2 more.
We’ll get 5-6 in – Matip and Grujic plus maybe 3 (but beware, the 3 unknowns are very likely to not be goetze and the like).
We upgrade the 1st 11 and current firsties – sakho, lallana etc – move into the squad player band.
Anyone who thinks we’ll sell the guts of our 1st team squad will be disappointed.
“Try to get 110-130 million for Mignolet, Sakho, Moreno, Henderson, Allen, Markovic, Illori, Lallana, Coutinho, Benteke and Sturridge” >>> sorry mate, will never happen. not this summer.
Hey Raffy, wish I was six you lucky sod (oh hold on, Guttman as dad??? not sure about that!!).
Hopefully you get to benefit from some of those £9 tickets next season. Make lots of noise, that’s all we ask.