NEIL Atkinson is joined by John Gibbons, Gareth Roberts and Chris Maguire to talk about Liverpool’s disappointing performance against West Ham United where they lost by two goals to nil.
They discuss how Liverpool are intending to score a goal, what to expect from Benteke and what Liverpool need to do next.
Also Stoke City gets a mention.
That’s The Anfield Wrap.
God this was a depressing show!!! I will say that the type of “piano players” that you want are likely doing well were they are and it being a Euro year there are very few players willing to move in January to jeopardise a chance of Euros. While understanding the frustration I think we are stuck with the squad we have.
A realistic show nonetheless.
Much more realistic that the nonsense of a week or so ago where a title challenge was considered.
Apart from Sturridge who’s never on the pitch, we do not have one player that scares the opposition.
Tough listen lads. Is Jurgen beyond reproach still?
This is the American owners plan of selling Lfc best players for profit , reducing the wage bill then buying mid range players hoping for another Suares or Sterling to sell on. Totally agree with John the team has a distinct lack of quality about it.
It’s a bit simplistic that mate. You make it sound more sinister than it is. Reducing the wage bill meant getting rid of the teams highest earners bearing in mind they couldn’t get a game. It doesn’t make sense. Lfc have a set amount for wages. We want good players being our top earners not Cole and Jovanovic.
The policy is simple to understand. The better you do the more you get. Sterling was adjudged to be worth £100k a week at 20. What they overlooked was a similar argument to bankers bonuses. Do they deserve £1m plus. Well, the banks say yes because these are the best around and if you don’t pay you lose them. It’s exactly what happened with Sterling. It’s not a plan to deplete us though or asset strip. A strong Liverpool on the pitch benefits them more than a weak Liverpool. Like I say, they have a vision of how to do that. It’s wrong for the Premiership but it’s not part of a grand plan to ruin us.
We had no way to keep hold of Suarez or Torres (although they inherited that problem). With Sterling we made our play and due to a combination of bad strategy, the agent and Liverpool’s form we lost the ability to keep him at any price.
It may be a simplistic view but Suarez was on 200k a week and sold for 75 Mil. At no point have FSG looked to replace Suarez with even a 37.5 Mil striker on 100 / 150,00 per week even with CL football and a tilt at the premiership on offer. Never mind paying 50-60 mil and 220 a week for a proper world class replacement
There is a lack of ambition in the market and the worry is that West Ham will have a new stadium bigger than Anfield and teams like West Ham, Stoke and Watford can with the new TV deal, offer big wages on the right players, these being athletic and fast.
Lambert, Remy, Balotelli and Benteke are players you would expect mid table teams to take a punt on to get to the next level, a top 8 or 6 finish.
Totenham, Sunderland and Villa paid between 16 – 24 mil for Darren Bent a few years ago non of the top clubs were intrested.
FSG are buying in this shop window, not the top CL club shop window, nor the top 4 prem shop window, its the window below that.
Sterling may be a greedy little bastard but he was our greedy little bastard and if he had the contract put under his nose end 13/14 he would have signed it. FSG have blown this money on potential and not on quality, and LFC fans know what quality looks like and it is players like Sturridge Suarez and Sterling and if you sell these type of players they need to be replaced by players of at least the same quality. Coutinho Firminho Lallana and Milner would look world class if they could pass it to 3 world class forwards.
I completely disagree with all of this. Let me make it clear I’m indifferent to FSG. What I don’t like is what I consider bullshit. Firstly, this potential not quality argument is an old one. FSG haven’t remained stagnant in their policy, but it seems you have in your interpretation. Yes, the earlier idea was buy young and cheap from abroad and get more value. That was abandoned a long time ago though. I think it was Rodgers who told them it was better to buy Premiership proven players who fit straight in. So, £20m for a centre half (Lovren) definitely doesn’t come into your category of cheap potential. £12m for a left and right back doesn’t either. £32m for Benteke isn’t cheap. £25m for Lallana neither. Moreno aside, these are proven Premiership players not potential. The policy has changed. £29m for Firmino too. Markovic was £20m. This is all entirely different from those early days of £7m for Alberto, Aspas or Ilori. Obviously, there’s a bit of it in Can, Origi or Gomez but that’s just sensible.
Benteke is 25, Lallana is 27, Clyne and Firmino are 24, Lovren is 26. Those 5 alone cost £120m. An average of £25m. They’re not potential. You’d expect them all to be close to their peak. We’re not a Champions League team. We’re in the same boat as Spurs. They’ve spent £180m over the last 3 seasons. Look what they got. Soldado for £25m. Lamela (come good this month, admittedly) for £25m. Son for £22m, Paulinho for £17m. Who is world class there? It’s not as easy as you think. It’s not FIFA 16. Chelsea have the money but they haven’t bought a decent striker. In fact, they bought Remy who you mention. Costa was £32m and no better than Benteke. He’s just a fat bastard. City not only have the money but they don’t care for FFP. They buy who they want and yet they bought Bony. They also bought Jovetic and Negrado. Utd haven’t been shy but who is their striker? Martial. Would you settle for that from the Suarez money because that’s buying potential. Arsenal bought Welbeck. They’ve got Giroud up front. The fact is, there’s no one around or one of the top Premiership clubs would have bought them.
Also, I feel it’s worth noting that FSG don’t buy players. They sanction the money for players. It’s the transfer committee who pick the targets. You make it sound like they say we want Benteke or Mario as Suarez’s replacement. Doesn’t work like that. The money has been there. The committee have bought the wrong players. We were in for Willian but he first chose Spurs but as soon as Chelsea came in he said ‘that was it, it was what I wanted’. We were in for Sanchez and he begged Barca not to sell him to us. What can we do? Balotelli wasn’t targeted. He was the last resort. The best of a bad bunch of options. Lambert made sense to everyone at £4m for a player who scored 13 PL goals in the previous season. Again, the committee got that one wrong in that they should understand team cohesion or they shouldn’t be in their jobs.
One place FSG have fallen down is they refuse to pay over the odds to secure the deal. If we’ve got any chance of attracting the top players then that’s our best chance though not a given. Look at the past. Why didn’t we break the bank to get Memphis. Why didn’t we outbid Chelsea for Salah. We should have paid the £20m for Bony. We want Dempsey whatever the cost. It’s this riskiness we’re trying to avoid. If we do that, these players take a place in the squad at the expense of another player. If these are top earners then the squad becomes weaker when they fail. We can’t have an infinite number of players and we can’t spend an infinite amount on wages.
It’s simplistic to blame FSG for everything. The money has been there but the players haven’t. The committee have spent poorly with the players that were available. We’re not a Champions League team. It’s a perpetuating problem. Blaming FSG for everything does nothing constructive. We have to be realistic and just go out and buy Berahino in January. Here’s one for you. You’re given the Suarez and Sterling money. Name me 4 £35m plus players you buy. I bet you can’t come up with anything realistic. Come on Trout, let’s hear it.
Excellent analysis as usual Robin
Rodgers record 2014-2015 plus start of 2015-2016 season;
Played 46, won 21, drawn 11, lost 14, GD +2, 1.60 points per game.
Klopp record 2014-2015 (Dortmund) plus his 2015-2016 season spell;
Played 46, won 18, drawn 10, lost 18, GD +4, 1.39 points per game.
Massive difference being is that was the team Rodgers built over 3 yrs spending 100s millions over several transfer windows.
Klopp has been here..what..3 months?
Hasn’t spent a penny and yet to go thru a transfer window.
Am I actually having to explain this???
My bad, read wrong year.
Klopp’s last Dortmund season was one of an absolutely horrendous list of injuries that came on top of several years of losing their best players each year mainly to Bayern Munich AFTER he had developed them from nobodies into world class players.
Rodgers’ figures come after his building into his 4th season and 2 summers of extreme levels of spending. And we don’t have a single team / squad member who isn’t entirely expendable.
Context is everything.
Oh, and BR’s superstars weren’t players he bought (but couldn’t keep hold of).
Really? You’ve started already?
Watching our supporter base these last five or so years I can’t help but feel we’ve got EXACTLY the team we deserve.
Cannot believe you are still pushing this agenda,
You are Cherry picking the worst time Klopp had at Dortmund + his first few months in a new league with someone else’s team,
For the love of God…..
*Those results are for league games only.
Stop this, please. Wouldn’t it be great if we all started 2016 without conspiracy theories like Francis (above) or using stats to make us look as bad as possible. I’m sure this is a mentality that Klopps wants to rid us of. Why do we always look to create divisions? Who does it benefit? Opposition fans just laugh at us and I can see why. Obviously, your point is accurate but it’s also accurate to say Shakin Stevens first album sold more copies than the Velvet Undergrounds first album in the year of release. What does that tell us? That Shaky is better? Come on mate, enough of this.
“Obviously, your point is accurate but it’s also accurate to say Shakin Stevens first album sold more copies than the Velvet Undergrounds first album in the year of release. What does that tell us? That Shaky is better?”
Maybe our fans should put these words to music and sing them as a telling riposte every time City/United/Arsenal and Chelsea fans sing about us being shitter than them?
Klopp’s now been bad enough, for long enough, that he is in the position of having to make something of a comeback. As is Rodgers, who could also point to many mitigating circumstances.
They are both in the results game, simple as that. We are all behind Klopp, but the love-in is definitely over. He is clearly mortal.
Obviously he mortal. Name me someone who isn’t. The point was you can’t judge things statistically. There’s a much bigger picture – you know that which is why I find it irritating. What are you trying to say? That maybe we haven’t actually got an upgrade on Rodgers – you don’t believe that. So, why insinuate it.
I don’t have to explain to you about how thin the squad is currently or how it lacks a goalscorer that suits our numerous number 10’s or how this was our 3rd game in a week. Or how Klopp didn’t assemble this mismatch of a team.
There’s no magic wand for all this. Give him a chance before you start writing him off. Like I said earlier, I think Klopp has been trying to tell us to stop all this hysteria that we do and be more realistic. Yesterday was an eye opener to where we’re at and a reality check that the truth is, he’ll need some time. He probably doesn’t need our fans posting on social media or fan forums that it appears he’s not that good.
Our strongest team would have pissed on them on Saturday. That team wasn’t capable. I knew that prior to kick off. I think our strongest team could genuinely challenge this season. What can’t challenge is this rag bag of misfits he’s got at his disposal currently. I’m no different. I wrote Origi off after just over 100 mins of playing time. It’s time we stopped all this nonsense. We’re all emotional but we need to regain some rationale.
It’s not the City/United/Chelsea/Arsenal fans telling us we are shit I’m worried about. It’s West Ham, Watford, Palace, Leicester, Stoke etc… This team is a laughing stock and everyone I’ve met – fans of different persuasions – insist it’s down to one thing and Gibbo has nailed it – these players are simply not good enough. I don’t care who’s fault it is that they are – transfer committee, Rodgers, whatever – I just want a lot of them gone and some quality bought in and the structure of the club to change so that Jurgen can have the best chance to build the team he wants over a season or two and then we can all go back to the stats and judge him. But the structure of this club will hold him back, I’m afraid.
Or maybe we should give Klopp a few seasons & transfer windows before passing any judgment.
why does groberts get upset when asked to explain his thoughts ? I mean, if you want to have a rant, just say so and go ahead, just don’t pretend that you’re actually making any sense and aren’t contradicting yourself. Otherwise you do need to explain what you’re saying.
Under FSG we’ve bought BOTH expensive 1st team players that BR specifically wanted regardless of price AND high calibre youngsters. The problem has been the manager wasn’t good enough identifying starting quality talent and just bought players he found it difficult to play against.
The fact that he didn’t know how to build a team (rather than augment an existing foundation) is on FSG recruiting him and him being dishonest about his abilities.
And now we’re paying the price for that although we have a lot of injuries affecting this. Migs cost us that first goal btw, he should have cleared it but he’s a fraud of a gk, waits for the defence to fail and then tries to save things. From 6 yards he’s hot garbage. Sure the mf should have stopped the cross but crosses will come in and Migs is a liability.
However, we are capable of doing stuff if we can unlock a goal scorer. Having a -2 goal difference and still being 7th/8th just shows that if we had a decent goal scorer (ie mobile forward) we’d be hammering on top 4 at least.
So we’re back to trying to make Benteke work ie back to making an immobile forward work. It’s just instead of BR trying to make Balotelli run onto through balls, it’s Klopp trying to make Benteke attack the ball / move forwards.
Benteke likes to take a couple of steps back to make space, he’ll never move forwards to attack the ball. His brain just doesn’t work in attack the space mode, it’s always hang back and wait for the ball mode. That’s the opposite of what we need so quite why BR and the committee chased and chased inanimate carbon rods for forwards we’ll never know.
I’m surprised Klopp is trying to make this work especially against WHU that were always just going to park a big guy on Benteke and pack the defence.
To make Benteke work, like Balotelli, you have to do what happened with Firmino’s assist against Leicester ie go near the dead ball line and cut back to him (because he’s taken a couple of steps back) OR you have to bring him back up the pitch a bit and have him flick on / pass on balls to willing runners, and then he turns and follows. I’m not sure why Klopp doesn’t see this. benteke is never going to charge forwards to get his head on the ball. Why waste your time against a parked bus defence in that way?
btw, the story of Watford was their offside trap that killed just about every single one of our attacks. We, particularly Firmino, just couldn’t beat it.
Then in the second half when we were getting into their box a lot we just lacked the quality with the final shot/pass/cross.
That does point to quality issues or issues of fit for purpose. Putting aside the balotelli’s and Benteke’s that clearly aren’t a fit and that we don’t seem to be prepared to change our game for them, we have bought Firmino who was a proven talent and young rising star at 23. We also have brought along a young rising star in Coutinho and a successful PL AM in Lallana, alongside very talented youngsters.
So the question has to be about why they don’t work – and it tends to be against the weekly grind sides rather than the higher level footballing sides. Is it because they are not superstar calibre (yet?) in the way Rafa’s 1st team was? It’s hard to say but for a start you have to get your main striker working, then others tend to work better.
That means we have to get Benteke working and then Origi. One doesn’t suit us (and we won’t change the way we play) and the other is 20. So if Sturridge can’t be relied upon then we have to buy another striker and go from there.
Also change Migs. He’s a fraud of a keeper.
Rodgers immediately wanted rid of Carroll when he arrived because he didn’t suit the style of football he wanted to play or indeed the style we normally play.
But then went on to sign Balotelli, Lambert and Benteke. It certainly is a head scratcher.
Benteke is not a bad player, far from it. However he needs a team geared around the way he plays but are we willing to do that??
Is he THAT good we should change our style of play??
I also disagree that 4-2-3-1 doesn’t suit us or Benteke. With the current players at our disposal it seems the only formation that suits.
If the 3 players behind Benteke won’t get up to support him then who’s fault is that?
It’s not all their fault as he takes up some strange positions but they need to work on it together.
For me personally Lallana shouldn’t be played as a forward. He’s very good at holding onto the ball, passing, creating space for himself but in the final third he’s very ineffective.
This summer I’d sell 1 of Coutinho, Firmino or Lallana as they’re all too similar. Lallana is the likeliest option there.
De Gea (or Courteois. Whichever really), Sanchez and Kane.
Aguero is obviously a world class player but he has Sturridgey fitness issues. Kane looks a reliable source of goals and running. Bit mad Neil thinks he’s got Benteke’s mobility problems.
I actually think Klopp is relishing this. Despite the gloom of the last few weeks, he knows he has a squad which has the talent to destroy City, Chelsea, S’oton: not not the balls to cope with good old English ‘get stuck in’. You can bet your own balls that no German is ever going to tolerate Tikka Takja for long. Especially not THIS German.
A few comments relevant to things referenced in this pod:
1. This squad has a communication problem, evidenced by Lallana and Benteke having words, and in a highlights clip I saw a very close-up, openly angry exchange between Can and Benteke near the touchline. don’t read lips so couldn’t tell what they were saying, but the anger was clear and Benteke didn’t seem receptive to whatever Emre was trying to tell him. Could be a language problem, but what worries me is that our own players are bringing this sort of conflict openly onto the game pitch, and it should not be happening — not in front of any opposition, 40,000+ fans, and especially the cameras. Emotion is fine but not angry exchanges that reveal the players don’t know what they are or should be doing. These things need to be dealt with more privately on the training pitch and in coaching sessions.
2. This squad seems to have an intermittent morale and confidence problem that severely impacts their energy, workrate, presence of mind, communication, and resulting performance. Revisionist comparisons (including statistical comparisons) between the current manager and his predecessor, and comparisons between the manager’s current results and those at his previous club under different circumstances, serve no useful purpose whatsoever in helping us understand what conditions are causing the problems in our current squad or what can be done to alleviate them. Our fans routinely resort to thinking that throwing the baby out with the bath water and refilling the tub will solve the problems. It won’t.
3. Because Lazar Markovic is mentioned a few times in this podcast — speaking to a Turkish publication in late October he said, [Fenerbahce is a] “great community. I do not feel any crowd pressure on myself.” Just putting that out there FWIW. Young players not fully matured … crowd pressure … morale problem … hmmmm…. He’s definitely making a point about Liverpool because his comment was a follow-on to saying why he was upset that he had not been given a proper chance in a Liverpool shirt.
Matkovic showed great potential but was subjected to the groans from ‘fans’ who probably never got picked even in a kick about. The effect was evident when he did something nice and then beshat himself for fear of fucking up. I’ve been there. And this happened when he was being crammed into playing in a position he was unsuited for and unfamiliar with. I used to cringe when Lucas copped the same fuckwit jeers. Not everybody has the same determination as Lucas, who reportedly cried in the change rooms, but prevailed. Several times. Best fans in the world? May have been, once upon a time.
Lots wrong from the West Ham game but who has got the energy. One point on the Sakho-Lovren partnership:
I like them as a pair and Skrtel has been consistent yet unspectacular for far too long; about time someone pushed him for a starting place. Against West Ham, Sunderland and Leicester though, I’ve noticed a worrying trend.
1. Clyne bombs forward in attack.
2. We get turned over, Lovren gets giddy and darts out to challenge for the ball.
3. Sakho is left too often needing to cover RB (?!) and there’s acres of space behind for teams to put the ball in the box.
It hasn’t imploded yet but I’m just waiting for a team to cripple us down their left. The whole back four needs a bit more synergy and some of them a good rest. Smith, Flanno & Kolo could get important minutes in the next couple of games.
The best show I’ve heard on here as the realisation that our squad and players are simply not good enough. It was a great and honest appraisal of where we are. The money that’s been wSted in the last 25 years is truly astounding!!! And it’s about time more questions are asked about FSG…… They’ve sold the Crown Jewels and squandered the money on mediocre players. I was hopeful Jurgen would change all this but his comments on the goalkeeping front, and no interest in the transfer window is a real concern!!! Keep up the good work boys.
I don’t think it’s correct that he has “no interest in the transfer market.” His history shows that he has a different way of going about it, and he’s not interested in paying silly hugely inflated prices in the January window when selling clubs know that buying clubs are desperate (or at least seeking) to beef up their squads to get shorter-term results because they are lacking or deficient in certain areas. I think he takes a longer-term view.
As fans deprived for years of any big wins we are desperate for immediate change and impact, but JK is serious about making the right choices so we don’t continue to plug the gaps with inadequate or inappropriate replacements — as has already occurred rather painfully. Two to three months is long enough for a momentary adrenalin shot in the arm, but that’s obviously worn off. It’s not long enough for him to make really sound decisions for the longer term — especially because so many of our most promising players have suffered serious season-impacting injuries.