STATISTICS in football is becoming one of the hottest topics around, especially around Liverpool ways in recent times. What do they all mean? How much can you read into them? Which ones tell us something important and which ones don’t?
On a basic level, they appeal to the trainspotter in us. The part that likes to compare pass-completion ratios and marvel, or otherwise, at a player’s goal-to-shots ratio. Sometimes they re-enforce what you already thought in black and white. Sometimes they focus your attention on something you might have missed.
Sometimes they just allow you to buzz off someone’s brilliance in another way. Like this which came out yesterday on Lucas Leiva from EA Sports.
These remarkable numbers show that Lucas Leiva has won more tackles than any other player in the league, despite playing two games less than his closest competitors. Per 90 minutes he’s won 50 per cent more tackles than every other player apart from N’Golo Kante. Fifty per cent! If you went out for a paper this morning, it’s highly likely Lucas Leiva tackled you on the way. Lucas Leiva wins the ball, hallelujah.
Is this new? Maybe a Jürgen Klopp infuence? No, it isn’t. Lucas has been tackling everything that moved for ages now. Just have a look at this stat from the summer.
833 – Since he joined Liverpool in July 2007, Lucas Leiva has made more tackles than any other player in the Premier League (833). Steel.
— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) June 29, 2015
Remember when we signed that little Brazilian kid with long golden hair? He went on to make more tackles than everyone else in the league.
I wouldn’t have bet he would still be in the Premier League after those first couple of games, never mind winning the ball more than Steven Gerrard and John Terry. But there he is. Lucas Leiva, the man who’s surprised us all.
He’s had quite the Liverpool career Lucas, written off more times than any Liverpool player I can think of, he’s bounced back every time. From the times there were howls and boos at Anfield when he was preferred to a bigger name player under Rafa Benitez. From the time he was, allegedly, on a list of players Christian Purslow gave to Roy Hodgson that, in his infinite wisdom and lengthy years of football experience, he felt the new manager should sell.
From the times Roy Hodgson preferred to play Christian Poulsen, a man whose legs didn’t work, and left Lucas on the bench. When Kenny Dalglish picked him every week as a caretaker manager, but then bought a load of midfielders as soon as he had the job.
Even under Brendan Rodgers you never felt Lucas’s place in the squad, never mind the team, was completely secure. Earlier this season, he was left out of the match-day squad all together for the opening game against Stoke City, and rumoured to be available for a transfer. Lucas saw them all off. Lucas proved them all wrong. Lucas kept winning the ball for Liverpool.
He still isn’t universally loved at Anfield. You still see comments about dangerous free kicks he gives away, like a player who tackles that much won’t give away free kicks occasionally.
You still get comments about his passing, like keeping the ball is a sin. Or about when we’ve had a truly good team, that he hasn’t even been able to get into it, like having more than 11 good players is a problem. Lucas just keeps tackling people.
The numbers might have been a surprise to those of us who saw his debut but it shouldn’t be a surprise any longer. His occasional rough treatment at the club hasn’t diminished his love of it.
When Lucas is on the pitch he wants to win more than anyone else on there. As much as any Scouser you plucked from the crowd and gave a red shirt to. Just watch him when he celebrates a goal. Witness the fist pump after a vital late block.
This allows him to summon the energy from somewhere to carry on. To get one more tackle out of those creaky legs that have been through wars and operations. He’s a warrior in the most unlikely form. A warrior for Liverpool. He might never get the plaudits he deserves. But those that matter, know.
Lucas Leiva, yeah.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
Absolutely my favourite player – a redemption story, a quietly intelligent footballer and model pro , on and off the field – God knows what he has to do to be loved.
My theory is that if he’d scored even a handful of goals from midfield he’d be adored …
Should be captain, there, I said it …
I agree he should have been named captain, or at the very least vice captain when SG retired. I like Milner but there is no way in the world he should be leading the team ahead of Lucas while Henderson’s been injured.
I actually think Lucas’d be a better choice for captain than Jordan H, though I’m a big fan of both players.
But they’re both too nice.
Imagine a manager saying something like this to his captain:
“I want you to become an absolute c*nt on the field”
Patrick Vierra, Rio Ferdinand and Steve Gerrard would nod smilingly. Roy Keane and Graeme Souness would lick their lips.
I might be totally wrong but I fear Jordan would blush and be concerned about the swear word. Lucas might just smile in that shy Brazilian style.
Lucas is Brazilian there is now way they would make him captain
Totally agree. And to think if BR was still here and Allen hadn’t got injured at the start of the season he’d be gone !
When I see Lucas celebrate, I think that is exactly how I would celebrate if I was playing. So happy he has come over his injuries to become a bigger beast than the days of nullifying Silva vs Man City.
Not sure how Dunga, a DM himself, has not picked Lucas for the national team again.
Long golden hair. Is he blooming Rapunzel?
Better ask her……:-)
and to think one of the usually fantastic contributors said on a pod not two months ago ‘ I think we are seeing the dying light of Lucas career’. I and few other contributors ( PaulInFinland) called that out as utter poxy shite.
He was stuffed with Rodgers, who clearly didnt want him but couldn’t get rid as he kept saving his random formations with his ability. Klopp, it seems, gets Lucas and what he brings to a team.
I’ve banged the drum for Lucas as captain for a long time and I’m not stopping now. One of our most criminally underrated players ever and yet one our greatest clubmen too. RobDaGoth says if he scored more he’d be adored, I’m guessing if he had a local accent he would too.
I loves me some Lucas Leiva.
Great article as usual. Lucas is truly Liverpool’s unsung hero. (He is probably a phoenix as well!) I’m one of those who felt Lucas was not Liverpool grade after his first couple of seasons for the club. But since then, he has proved his doubters wrong time and again. He seems to have a real connection with the club and its fans, and that’s what perhaps enables him to keep coming back. Also, he’s the sort of footballer who isn’t at all flashy, either in his playing style or personality. Which is one of the reasons he probably doesn’t get the credit he is due. Lucas Leiva. Hell yeah.
excellent piece about an excellent player.
Let’s not forget, whilst he’s doing better, he’s still not up to LFC standards. If you think otherwise, you’re a whopper.
Best tackler in the league is not up to LFC standards?
He’s out tackling everyone else in the league by a country mile but he’s not good enough for LFC??
Strange logic there.
what utter shite
Too many people rate Lucas based on stats or the odd eye catching tackle, rather than actually watching his contribution over 90 mins. His supposed tireless running and energy is a myth. Watch how often he is standing motionless on the edge of our area as goals are conceded. Even a knackered Gerrard made more of an attempt to prevent attacks. He has neither the pace and aggression of Mascherano nor the positional sense of Hamann. And his lazy foul on Saturday should have led to a red card which, considering it was 1-1 at the time, could easily have cost us the game. And for those who love Lucas’ stats, here’s another – we’ve never won anything with him in the side.
So how do you explain the tackling stats then???
Luck??
I use my eyes and can see what Lucas bring to the team. I can then back up what I see with measurables.
Suppose you’re one of those that will condemn him for not scoring?
Coz Mascherano, Makele scored loads of goals didn’t they.
Zip up…your bias is showing.
You do not watch football matches. If you do, you’re either visually or cognitively challenged, or both. You certainly do not know the first thing about football.
Take up crochet.
Is that best you can do mate? I haven’t resorted to insulting anyone so well done you. And if it helps, I’ve been going the game since 1982. Maybe the issue is you’ve become too used to mediocrity…
Interestingly Kenny, Mascherano never won anything at Liverpool either. So maybe it’s not all down to one man? JG
Except Lucas has been at Liverpool for nearly 10 years. And in the two seasons we came close to winning the league, he could hardly be considered to be a regular
Do you feel insulted, Kenny?
That’s unfortunate. You’ll live though, I am sure.
I don’t care how many matches you’ve attended in person. In my opinion, based on what you’ve said here, the statements you’ve made, you could spend the rest of your life watching football matches and it would not make an iota of a difference.
In my opinion, you are incapable of evaluating football players. It’s ok, so people are congenitally unmusical, for example. It’s not their fault that they just do not ‘get it’. Likewise, it’s not your fault that you just don’t get football. Or understand basic logic. It is what it is.
Not really arsed in your opinion of me to be honest.
I totally agree with you. The free kicks he gives away are sometimes ridiculous (the one on Saturday was a for instance and really he should have gone for it), he is too slow and I can’t believe the figures that have been quoted either. People have been telling me that he reminds them of Ronnie Whelan. I’m sorry, what a bloody insult to Ronnie Whelan. I wouldn’t have him cleaning Ronnie Whelans boots. I have been watching most games since the 1970-71 season so I think I know my football aswell.
Spot on Kenny! Do you know who created the myth about him giving 100% all the time? He himself, in his ceaseless articles.
I can see here and on LFC boards Lucas’ fans never answer the arguments you make and always come up with insults.
Most spectators just watch the ball and don’t notice what goes on off the ball. Lucas is also a spectator. He can lose the ball and then jog and watch the opposition moving on to our box, while his midfield partners tear every sinue in their bodies to get back. When you bring it up together with the myth, at best you get some stats from Lucas’ fans (often without a source) a no real counter arguments.
The opposition also leave Lucas on the ball, but put pressure on everyone else, cause they trust him to make the “right” decision. This can explain his passing stat. I’d like to see stats for what happens after his passes. More times than not it has to go back to our keeper.
I can actually explain his high tackle rate. He tackles only from the back when players don’t see him. And remember those other 20% are not just missed tackles they’re fouls! But when the attackers faces Lucas, he doesn’t bother them at all and let the play develop as if he were a cone.
I still get nervous with Lucas – and thats maybe because he is not Mascherano – i still think he isnt fast enough or strong enough.
But he makes one hell of a difference on the pitch – putting aside his ability as a player, his reading of the game (perhaps if he was quicker he would not have developed this skill) – his leadership is critical to us at the minute.
In terms of senior players on the pitch – Skrtel – needs to concentrate on his own football, Sakho – could develop into a great leader – monster. Milner – i think the armband is weighing him down. Who else on the pitch now do we have that can keep clam – can hekp youngsters and importantly lead by example – LUCAS! god bless him.
PS when Milner (or Milly as Klopp calls him) went off, why didnt Lucas get the armband – i havent got a problem with Skrtel but it should be Lucas all day!
However – back to realism. I still think it maybe one area that Klopp looks to upgrade sooner or later – but until that time – We Love You Lucas
I still get thrown off by the absolutely bellendry and cretinism of some LFC supporters re Lucas Leiva.
What is WRONG with you?
I still get thrown off by other supporters inability to appreciate and respect others opinions. I love footy banter, which is about opinions. Not about disrespect and insult you beaut.
Maybe it’s a scouse trait…respect of the individual.
Respect for the individual?
Are you having a laugh?
An imbecile spewing tired nonsense about Lucas and I am supposed to “respect him”??
And you call me a “beaut”.
Go fuck yourself.
This is Stav trait, you “beaut”.
Sumeet : ‘he’s not Mascherano’. Let’s end the thread there and all go home hey.
Great player, great song! :)
By far my favorite Red, Lucas. This should be required reading for any of those daft enough to question his quality. Hope he’s got 3-4 more years left in those legs, I can’t imagine not having the privilege of watching him boss midfields.
Lucas is a great example of the pygmalion effect Rafa had faith to play him when other didn’t rate him and since Rafa left the club no manager has thrown their hat on him.
I always remember watching a 60 minute interview with Lucas a few years ago and finding out how much of a humble person he was. It’s very powerful that his christian beliefs are very important to him and now that he has a manager who also shares those beliefs as well as the philosophy to press and win the ball back, I can see Lucas having his best years at the club under the Klopp reign.
Prior to his ACL injury, Lucas was at the peak of his powers. One of the best DM if not the best around. Then the injury. Followed by the ankle injury. His days appeared to be numbered.
Herr Klopp with his immense power however has raised him from the dead. He is Klopp’s Stephen Kehl and more. He looked great and he will be great. Welcome back Lucas Leiva!
dont care if he does not score every team needs a solid worker who puts the tackles in.maybe we would have won more if he had played more .one for rodgers to contemplate
When Lucas is good – he is very good. When he is poor he is a liability. In fact I’d go as far to say, when Liverpool are good then Lucas is good, and when they arent….well, you can guess the rest.
No middle ground for Lucas Leiva I’m afraid. I am sure we can all name matches where Lucas stood out in an LFC win – anyone think of games where Lucas was our standout performer in a defeat?
This is like saying Sturridge isn’t good except when he scores and we win otherwise he’s a liability. Couldn’t this be said for every player? If we lose its probably fair we didn’t play at our best.
With that said Lucas was clearly our best player at home v Southampton and we weren’t very good in the match.
His not quick as mascherano?so what? No use for getting a quick player then just go..We won anyway!!!that matters..what ever happens in the future, lucas leiva is a player whom should not be forgotten!!..ever!!..
A player who wont go anywhere unless being told to go no matter what happen to the club, just like agger..a player who play for the club with heart and not for a money..cannot not ask for more from this player..just keep playing bro and tackle.cheers!!=)
Legend.
the NEW WORKING CLASS HERO!!
after reading this, I have just placed order a new Red Jersey with Lucas number from local sporting goods store, for my son.
Lucas story at Liverpool is like Cinderella story five times over, under five different “step fathers”,~ he came through each time and ended up “marrying the prince”…
when Klopp was appointed, who was top on the list of “can’t make it”?….Lucas…yet again…and he is now going through another Cinderella phase once again…I really hope to see Lucas go on and be the legend for us after 3 to 4 more years of winning trophies with us.
Keep going Lucas! You are the true hero for my son and myself. thank you..
Makes the most of his limited ability Like Henderson,not a natural gifted player but works hard at improving his game. Does he get pulses racing? Does he give the opposition sleepless nights? I doubt it but he does a useful job
He’ll probably be fully appreciated once he’s gone like Kuyt and Garcia. Can’t wait till his song takes off to get the atmosphere going in 2025.
People need to get it into their heads that the next Mascherano isn’t just waiting somewhere mad like West Ham’s reserves for us to replace Lucas with and even if there was he wouldn’t be coming to Liverpool like it’s 2007 and we’ve got Champions League finals-level pulling power.
Too many equating Football Manager with real life. “Just get rid and get Mvila in.” See the state of him for Sunderland at Everton playing in a similar role and shape (in front of a back three) to Lucas last season? Definitely not.
Spot on with the M’Villa call. You’d think people would realise how much of a tit they are after the player they were screaming for the last transfer window turns out to be completely out of his depth but they never seem to.
The stats don’t tell the whole story about Lucas. His positional sense is actually one of the reasons why he is so good. It’s something that isn’t measurable; because of where he positions himself the opposition have to pick another route away from the danger area (sorry Kenny, you simply haven’t taken the time to watch him closely enough).
His passing is crucial to the team as a whole, as he provides the transition between the back 4 and the rest. In Brazil he is called a ‘Volante’ – RAWK had a good discussion on this a few years back. As another, and probably better known Kenny once said:
“I don’t think Lucas is going to be the one who beats five or six players and puts it into the back of the net. But he is the one who stops the guy going past the first fella then sets us on our way”
agreed with your comments.
his positioning is top notch, and he reads the game/flow so well that he senses the danger way ahead of teammates that he usually.gets there and able to stop the opponent’s attack early. he may not be the faster player around but his speed of thought seems to be way ahead..
Happy to admit I was so wrong about him. I thought his legs were gone. Thought he was now too slow & thought we should have sold him in last transfer window.
MASSIVELY wrong I was.
His form is now back to the great form of before his Chelsea interview and I love it !!
Just hope with all my heart he doesn’t get another injury.
Injury, not interview *
Good article. Think only the plastic supporters dislike him. But then they only care about goals. Defensive midfield is an art form and one of the hardest positions to play. Lucas will be remembered as one of the best to wear the shirt when his time with us is over.
spot on. The only people who cannot see the benefit of Lucas are the ones that think the game is only about putting the ball in the net or hitting 50 yard balls. While they are important, reading the game and grafting are just as important.I think Shanks said its like a piano you need a bunch of guys to carry it and a few who can play it.
The guy is one of the few intelligent players we actually have. He understands the game better than most. I think he will go on to be a very successful coach but until then I am just glad he is in our squad. He obviously loves playing for us and when we win the league (next season will do) then I look forward to watching his celebration.
He’s having a superb season! Apart from the Chelsea match, his best game was against Arsenal.
How could you not love him? He us our heart and soul. After Rickie Lambert’s goal last season and the Kop celebrated, Lucas threw himself into the pack after running around looking for a gap to hurl himself through. TAW said ‘The boy from Brazil is as Scouse as the boy from Kirkby.’ That said it all. And a BBC commentator said “Lucas is probàbly the nicest man in Football..’
What is there not to like!??? He is the only ‘Scouser’ left. You don’t have to be born in Liverpool to belong.
Interesting to see Klopp having chats on the pitch immediately after a couple of games,
Fine player.
I think the fact that they both share strong christian values has played a big part in their rapid connection. Klopp seems like great man manager an its good that he has put his faith in Lucas and Skrtel. It was very odd that our two longest serving players were not captain or even a vice captain. If I was in that position I would feel undervalued and not wanted.
So it was a very powerful statement from Klopp when Skrtel took the armband when Milner was taken off.
Great article.
Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson had them same ability to read the game, neither were the quickest but instinctively knew where to be when it mattered.
I don’t think he needs the captaincy, he has enough to do already. He leads by example and deliberately gives away fouls when necessary to do so, it is a tactic after all.
Long may he continue in our midfield.
Those who can’t see what he does I feel sorry for.
When Lucas first came onto the scene I was amazed at how he just seemed to poke the ball away from an opponent who seemed in control of it. That takes perfect timing, and can look like a fluke to people who have not played football. Add those incidents to actual tackles and his qualities are enhanced. I also think his quiet mentoring brought Coutino along.
He came to us as a ‘box to box’ midfielder, so Rafa turned him into a DM. People who think he’s technically limited have no idea. In one incident last year he performed a pirouette that left two opponents facing the wrong way. He has the skill all right.
David Pleat commentating on one game said ‘This boy Lucas is capable of much more than Liverpool allow him to do.’ But he’ll do me as he is.
Alan Hansen was reputably the quickest in the squad in the mid eighties and if my memory serves me right Lawro was pretty fast also.
Loved this:
“Lucas saw them all off. Lucas proved them all wrong. Lucas kept winning the ball for Liverpool.”
Love Lucas. Love his passion, his celebrations, his love for the club. And his thick skin. Nothing phases the man.
He is getting back to his best. And with a midfield partner (few midfielders can hold the middle of the park by themselves as BR expected), and the backing of Klopp, he’ll be our anchor in midfield for another few years.
Great article.
Well in John.
Lucas should be the one who get the vice captain armband this season. he’s red through and through and you can see it on the way he celebrate it with the others. apart from that, on the field, in the dressing room, i guess we dont have anyone else who have that experienced as a red that will be useful to the young team. i have wrote him off before once or twice but everytime i did that, he’ll come back better… we just pray that he’ll keep this momentum going on and free of injury. we love u lucas
i would start eleven leivas if i could,,…..
just ask Yaya Toure how good he is !
last seen inside Lucas’ back pocket
and not one mention of his goal v Benfica !
i couldn’t understand why he was celebrating and came running over to us in the paddock
i then realised he had just scored the worldy and not Torres
(who was in his pomp at the time)
his “innocent face” after another tackle / foul is always a laugh and no-one celebrates a Liverpool goal better.
He gets it, playing for Liverpool is an honour,
not an opportunity for self promotion.
the boy is an inspiration, castigated by his own fans on arrival (so what if he isn’t kaka) let down by managers trying to curry favour with fans, several serious injuries that would have ended lesser players careers, and he still comes back for more.
now getting back to his imperious best was my MOM against Chelsea on Saturday if he had played for them I don’t think we would have been strolling around their penalty box with the ball.
keep tackling
Yes I for one was guilty of feeling annoyed with him in his early years at LFC. I truly think he’s an integral part of the teams defensive midfield for several years now. He does the dirty work no one else expects or wants to do. No doubt he is still slow at times to move the ball on or win the ball which makes him susceptible to late challenges and risk getting sent of but the number of times he stops the opposition with crucial tackles outweighs the number of times he loses the ball himself. I vividly remember how crucial he was in some of the great wins we had against Utd.
I love a stat, probably more than the next man. An isolated stat always makes me think “And why is that a good thing?”. For example, does Lucas go for the tackle when a player with more pace might have gone for an interception? Basically, is it always the right decision to tackle?
This is very difficult to establish from objective stats alone: a subjective decision needs to be made on those 65 tackles – were they always the best option? Having said that: you can look at other stats in conjunction with these e.g. tackles leading to yellow cards; tackles leading to fouls; or tackles where possession was lost.
The trouble when you do this is that the results become vague. Data on anything, including football, is a shadow of an image – not the full picture: for that you still need to watch, interpret and analyse the game first hand. if you did that, I’m pretty sure that Sunderlands Billy Jones wouldn’t be the sixth best anything. Having said that: Lucas has been great the last few games – we’ve been so much better for having him in the side and long may it continue!
Absolutely love Lucas as a player and not knocking him at all but not sure those stats necessarily prove anything. Making lots of tackles doesn’t necessarily make you a great player; some of the best players make fewer tackles because their positioning is so good.
Alex Ferguson once explained how one of the biggest mistakes of his career was selling Jaap Stam in his prime; he had noticed in the stats that Stam had been making fewer and fewer tackles as time went by and wrongly assumed that this meant he was deteriorating as a player. It was only after he sold him that he realised the reason he’d been making fewer tackles was because his reading of the game had got better.
Look at the other names on that list of top tacklers in the article; they are clearly not all quality names. As I said, I do really rate Lucas, but I think it is wrong to focus purely on tackling stats alone.
Is this the famed English obsession with tackles?
I like Lucas, but I prefer to go with what Alonso once said: “Tackling is not really a quality, it’s more something you are forced to resort to when you don’t have the ball.”
Funny then how a decent tackle can lift a crowd and change the course of a game.