OH, Jürgen. What have you gone and done?
“Eighty-two minutes — game over. I turned around and I felt pretty alone at this moment. We have to decide when it is over.”
Rarely has a manager’s theme been warmed to so gleefully. He’s saying what loads of us have been saying for years. That the ground has changed. That the modern fan is the type who gets off early. They’re killing the atmosphere. Killing Anfield. They’re not like us. We don’t leave early. We want it to be like it once was.
Of course, in the face of an agenda, Klopp was powerless to communicate his intended message, which was (of course) not intended as a criticism of Liverpool fans: “I am not disappointed about this, the fans leaving, they have reasons. But we are responsible that nobody can leave the stadium a minute before the last whistle because everything can happen.
“Between 82 minutes and 94 you can make eight goals, if you want, but you have to work for it. That is what we have to show and we didn’t.”
Yes, as well as directing a message to his neurotic playing squad, he was clearly hinting that there is a culture of defeatism that has engulfed the club. He was not however blaming the cart ahead of the horse, as is roundly being suggested.
Something good may come of the (mis)interpretation of Jürgen’s words. It is obviously a better thing for the Liverpool cause if people feel inclined to stay cheering on the team to the bitter end. Maybe the publicising of the issues will make a few pause and think that those extra five minutes’ advantage gained are not preferable to the thrill that would be gleaned from witnessing a late Liverpool goal.
Perhaps they will come to “believe”, as Jurgen wants us all to “believe”, that things are changing. Anything is possible. Late goals need not be considered miracles but part of the plan, perhaps.
Regrettably, more certain to manifest itself will be a brand new away supporter chorus at Anfield: “Jurgen’s right, you’re fans are shite.” God knows we’ve been singing that at the likes of Chelsea and Manchester United for the last few years, having leapt upon fairly tame reported comments about their fans by Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho.
What will also have been given new wind, unfortunately, will be the bluster from a core of the fan base that expresses its frustrations with the team in relentless criticism of fellow fans. Comrades become new fans, day-trippers, corporates, half-and-half scarf merchants, and wools.
All these interlopers poison us, sent from the enemies of freedom to rain on our parade, to change our ways, to disrespect our culture and traditions, to steal our purity. Because we always sang. We never left early. We were always “the best fans in the world”.
Well, yes we were. But mainly when we were winning stuff. A good thumping victory and the smell of trophy glory keeps a smile on the face and a song in the heart. Seeing your team record just five league Anfield wins in a calendar year is not so conducive.
When was the last time Anfield truly rocked? The 80s? The Istanbul year? Nope. Wrong. It was 2014. For all the home games in the second half of that season, as the goals rained in, as Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge plundered away, as Brendan’s Mighty Reds made us dare to dream again.
Were you there against City for the 3-2? Spurs for the 4-0? Arsenal for the 5-1? The derby at Anfield? No library vibes on those days. No Liverpool manager feeling chilled and alone as the final whistle blew on glorious victories and a ground punched the air and hugged itself home.
Often forgotten when we get dewy-eyed about our wonderful Kop and we get romantic about how only a city as fantastically rambunctious as Liverpool could have spawned it, is the fact that a good portion of the town aren’t actually Reds and would rather be seen dead than on that hallowed shelf.
Now the Everton blues can certainly produce a fair old din at Goodison when they’re so minded, but they will grudgingly admit that they do not have the world-famous reputation that The Kop has for being a crowd that produces a special atmosphere.
Let’s remember that these are Liverpool people, too. Many of them share homes with Red mums, dads, brothers and sisters. There’s not something in the Scouse DNA or irrigation system that makes football grounds unduly frisky and tuneful. Granted, there may be a sociology paper to be written about the Irish influence on Liverpool culture and its propensity for a sing-song when the mood presents, but much the same could be said of the Welsh and their valleys-inspired choral traditions.
The one thing a Liverpool crowd has over its Blue brethren is simply that it has witnessed a hell of a lot more winning football. From 1963 to 1990 nearly three decades of close to total spectrum dominance of the English game. To be blunt. Even since the 80s there has been loads to cheer about. Cups, European trophies and the odd brush with the top of the table. Everton haven’t seen silverware since 1995. No dreams. No songs to sing.
Let’s get back to 2014 for a second. That was a thoroughly modern Liverpool FC-supporting match-goer that played his and her part in making most of that season at Anfield so memorable. That rocking atmosphere was the product of a melting pot that included boys, girls, arl arse Scousers, young buck Scousers, Irish people, Scandinavian people, Asian people, and even suits and day-trippers.
All of them came together to celebrate Suarez and Raheem Sterling and Sturridge and Steven Gerrard and Jordan Henderson. All of them joined in symphony to sing about the poetry in motion before them. And none of them (well, not so that you would notice) got off before the 90, looked to beat the traffic or whatever.
It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that rush to judgement of the recent spate of early-darters is little more than simple scapegoat-ism. We’re all properly pissed off at that which has been served up at our home ground for going on 18 months now. It’s not acceptable. It’s not palatable and someone’s going to get it. It was the last manager for a while. Kicking him served a purpose.
As John Aldridge noted in his Echo column this week, both leaving matches early is not a modern phenomenon to Liverpool FC, nor is the concept of us calling people out for it:“Fans leaving before the end is nothing new. I remember being in the Kop in the 70s and 80s and we’d always slaughter fans in the Kemlyn Road who got off 10 minutes from time, telling them to sit down.
“They would be wanting to get away to beat the traffic or the queues in the pub as they headed for a quick pint. It’s not great to see and I’ve never been one to leave early. I used to always head for the top of the Kop towards the end of a game so I could getaway as soon as the final whistle went.
“Then I’d leg it to the chippy and then jump on the Woodcutters bus back to Garston, usually celebrating a win!”
Lovely stuff. Even hardcore John is admitting he had half an eye to business in the chippy come the end of the game. He should have been focusing on his Koppite duty of roaring the boys over the line, when instead he was prematurely fixating on his carb fix. For shame.
I’m a homer and an awayer. I’ve seen — and been — every species of Liverpool fan down my 38 years of attending Liverpool games.
About 20 years ago I went to a couple of aways with some moody lads who (to my horror) had no concerns about missing the kick-off to a match. The bonhomie of an extra pint in the boozer was worth missing the first five minutes for.
Also, take a look at a Liverpool end five minutes before half-time at any fixture over the last few decades. Our end thins out considerably with top hardcore away-supporting Liverpool lads hitting the exits to beat the queues for that essential half-time scoop. Loads of these are also more than likely not to make it back to their seats precisely in time for the second-half resumption. I know because I’m very much one of them.
But leaving five minutes before the end of a game? It’s not a smart move if the game’s result is in doubt, let’s be right. You do kind of need to be wanting to see how the thing turned out, or why bother going in the first place? But is it a crime against the club and your fellow man? No, it isn’t.
Your fellow man (and woman) happily trundles in late to games and considers the half-time bevvy every bit as important as the fayre the actual team are serving up. Few of us can truly afford to be getting too pious abount total minutes clocked up in front of a football pitch.
Jürgen’s point, which seems hopelessly lost, is about unity and togetherness. He would be appalled if he realised it was being used as a stick by one fan to beat another fan with. The Kloppmeister knows and is preaching like an evangelist that the only way this thing gets to work, gets to come together, is if we all realise we’re in it together. That we take collective responsibility.
He’s after groupthink. Unity. Harmony. Dare it be said, united we stand. Divided we’ll fall. Let’s take that message home with us.
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If it was 88 on the clock, it would be more understandable. But with the best part of a quarter of an hour to play (with added bookie time), there’s a chance of a Coutinho shot actually being on target, or fluking something from a corner.
If there was any dribbling skills in the squad, there’d even be hope of a penalty. This side has fallen a very long way from the 13/14 crazy days where Suarez could score from the dressing room.
The inability to score more than one goal a game except every other blue moon has left us all in the “here we go again” mode. You have to go back to the start of March to find a month where we managed it more than once in the whole sodding month.
Jesus Rob, It almost annoys me how sane you are. That’s not a slur mate, more a realisation of how many tits there are in the world (see comment by [email protected] on Gareth’s latest piece).
Whether we’re talking atmosphere or people leaving we can’t categorise those responsible. They’re just Liverpool fans. The solution to these problems are so obvious yet nearly impossible to implement. Finger pointing is the last thing that’s gonna change anything because it gets us all looking for answers in the wrong place.
What’s fascinating is, Klopp has been here a number of days yet he’s worked us all out. We were all having debates on here about this, that and the other and he’s come in, took one look, and worked it out. It doesn’t take a genius to do so either.
The atmosphere wasn’t this poor in the 80’s. The atmosphere wasn’t this poor against Chelsea in the 2005 semi. The atmosphere wasn’t this poor in the second half of 2014. It must be the out of towners, corporates, day trippers. What else can it be? Stupid cunts. In fairness though, we’re not the first in mankind to try and shift the blame from ourselves to others. Maybe it’s the ticket prices. It was nowhere near as expensive in that second half of 2014. People could even afford to buy a flag and greet the bus in those days, on top of going to the match. They were good old days.
The only divisions at Anfield is down to the mentality of fans. Some have valid reasons for leaving early but it’s pointless listing them, it all comes down to the same reason once we scratch away the veneer or the excuses.
The debate should be – without success, how can we enjoy the match.
We’d then need to look at how we can get fresh blood into the ground. How we can get rid of the ones it’s gone stale for unless we’re conquering all.
Basically, how can we change the mentality of the MAJORITY of those at Anfield.
Not the foggiest on who this NoWools@Anfield whopper is but someone needs to tell the prick the vast majority of people scooting on 80-odd are middle-aged scouse fellas getting to their cars parked up. The – I don’t even know what to call these supporters because it all sounds a bit elitist, snide and Us vs Them to me (Daytripper/outoftowner/blah) – maybe staying over in a hotel in town if it’s a Saturday or getting a taxi whenever to Speke for their night time flight to say, Dublin or whatever.
I’m not having it from other supporters with an L postcode scapegoating people because they can’t be arsed anymore. It’s a joke.
It’s absolutely true what you say Tom and it effin winds me up no end. But my point was it doesn’t matter where the fans are from. It doesn’t matter what their class is and it doesn’t matter how old they are. In fairness, all those things contribute to the dynamics of Anfield but the underlying problem is our collective psyche. That’s what we need to change. It’s a result of what we’ve been through, from being the best in the world to mediocrity to absolute near disaster. We’ve haven’t recovered. Hodgson didn’t help – he just made us feel a bit more shit than we already did. The emotion of Kenny’s reign combined with the realisation the game had possibly moved on too much didn’t help. Rodgers threatened to show us the light again and we lapped it up but ultimately, it was just disappointment and finger pointing again.
In some ways it hasn’t helped some fans that FSG are also American.
Klopp came in. We got excited and as soon as we saw us lose at home to a team from the bottom half (possibly) we all went into default mode and became defeatist. When you’re on a low, the obvious thing is to look for scapegoats. It makes you feel better about things if its the fault of others. We always do it. If we lose a game we turn on a player (Can this week (and the obligatory Mignolet)). If we go on a poor run we blame the manager. If our new signings don’t hit the ground running we blame the transfer committee. if a player fancies a different club to us we blame Ayre and for everything else there’s FSG. I’m not saying there’s not blame there, more about how black and white everything is. It’s devoid of thought as if we follow a script. It’s clear we’re not doing our job as fans so we blame the 40 in the ground from Asia. Until we realise everyone of us needs to look in the mirror it’ll be the same.
I’ve looked in the mirror. I was pleased with what I saw for a 43 year old actually, haha, but I’m defeatist. My problem is, I want us to win so badly that it makes me tense. I often release that tension at the end of a match. For example, I often punch the air violently when the whistle goes and we’ve won. I need to release the tension. If the opposition score with 10 to go to take the lead it hits me like a sledge hammer that we’re not gonna win. That tension turns against me. It puts me on a real downer but the match has 10-15 mins left. I can’t recover from it enough to get behind the team. I just can’t. Yeah, we might snatch a draw but we’re not gonna score 2. We never do. We’re not good enough and we don’t have the mentality. Sorry, slipped into it again. We all need to believe. Most of all though, we each need to look at ourselves and ask are we happy to give up and roll over or should we be having a rallying cry like Utd used to under Fergie and see if it can bring us the same rewards it used to bring them. Believe me, our crowd roaring ‘come on’ can lift our tempo massively. Mass exits lowers our tempo massively.
I admire Robin’s passion and self-reflective honesty. I’m as tired of banging this drum as I’m sure people on here are of hearing me bang it. George was always my favourite Beatle, not Ringo, but I’m banging on…
(1) The blame game NEVER has any winners.
(2) Defeatism ALWAYS leads to defeat.
That’s all.
Thanks Rob. An oasis of perspective in a sea of the proverbial. Wholehearted agreement from me!
The Klopp comments were as much at his team as his fans. 12 games and 14 goals conceded isn’t bad but to have only scored 13 is pathetic. Possession is good, number of shots good but it seems everyone panics in the 6 yard box.
If the fans believe that the team can score more often than once per game, fewer will get up and go early.
Klopp wants the fans to believe in the team but his comments are to his team to help them believe in themselves.
Put it on the net. Keep the fans til the end.
He knows they’re linked mate. They go hand in hand. If the players don’t believe they can score then the crowd will sense it. If the fans don’t believe we can score then the players feel it. We’ve all moaned about aspects of the crowd for years. We’ve pointed the finger here, there and everywhere. The reality is we ALL need to change our attitude. That’s what he’s saying. Collectively, we’ve all lost the will to fight for what we want. If we’re winning we’re all fine. It’s what we expect. However, if we’re not winning, we immediately turn to negative thoughts and lie down. We have that thought of ‘I’ve seen enough of this’ or ‘here we go again’. Klopp wants to change that mentality.
Utd won the Champions League by having a fighting mentality in 99. We won it in 2005 when one man decided he wasn’t lying down and asked everyone to join him. That fighting spirit is gone and that’s what Klopp’s trying to tell us in his subtle, yet direct, way. Ignore his diplomacy, he’s talking about everyone connected to LFC. Reading between the lines he wants to make Anfield a fortress. As it stands, opposition players don’t get fear from playing at Anfield, they get reassurance that it’s gonna be ok. They get that from the fans. Everyone can see it. NO opposition fan comes to Anfield and feels intimidated by the crowd. They ALL sing ‘is this a library’ or where’s your famous atmosphere. Whatever the score, they leave thinking they’ve got one up on us because they’ve created more noise than us. That’s how away fans think. It’s territorial and we’re not defending our turf. I’m not talking physically. I’m talking tribal instinct in the same way tribes around the world try and outdo one another with a fierce dance. New Zealand rugby do the Haka to intimidate. We send out Mighty Red to intimidate and that pretty much sums up our spirit. We’re a wounded animal. We’ve had all we can take over the last 5 or 6 years. The fight’s gone. We need to lick our wounds, get up and just fight to the death. We’ve nothing to lose. You make your own destiny and if it’s not handed to you on a plate don’t sulk and give up. Get up and go and get it. He’s saying something like that (I think, haha). I might be reading too much into it but I read it as a cross between Churchill and Jesus, lol.
There’s nothing wrong with Liverpool’s. support. The away support is noisy and passionate.The myth of The Kop.is and selective nostalgia for the past is an albatross around the neck
I have read a lot about this. Ignoring what Klopp Said an looking at it from the outset- we are all meant to be supporters. To me this means if the team is 4-5 nil down on 88 minutes everyone, and I mean everyone should stay and sing their heart out.
How strange does that sound, yeah right nobhead I hear you say, but here’s the thing. A season is 38 games long if you do that, stay and sing your bollocks off at a time were things aren’t going well. In the next game the team will feel ‘you know what I have no fear today we will do our best and our 12th man will be there no matter what happens’.
That’s what we need to be talking about. Not about how our team can make us stay. Its called being a supporter and not a mere spectator.
You don’t need to fight for anything any more. You dont need to let your passion drive you. Just let it rage inside.
Just sit back and wait – eventually the antithesis of what you actually believe will surface and you can rail against it. Everything today is black or white, its binary. right or wrong. his fault, her fault, never my fault. And there is always, always, always someone or thing to blame.
We’ll moan about the atmosphere, go to the next home game and come out moaning about the atmosphere – then the nice easy simple blame game can start again – rather than saying “you know what, I’m going to do something about this” – imagine if 45,000 people all decided to do that?
The relationship between the team and the fans is symbiotic.
The fans need to have the belief and confidence in the team that they are capable of getting a late winner and that they are mentally strong enough to overcome the odds. This confidence in the team isn’t borne out of the ether. The team have to show the fans that they CAN overcome the odds on a consistent basis.
Think of the 05 CL run. The team showed the fans that they could overturn the odds by winning against Olympiakos etc on the way to the final. The fans knew this team could do it so they urged them on at halftime.
Think of the 13/14 season. The team proved time and again that no matter how many we conceded we could score more. The fans believed in the teams ability and urged them on, greeting the team bus at Anfield in the final run in.
Even take the Utd team of the 90s and beyond who were renowned for scoring late winners. Initially the teams self confidence instilled by the manager ensured that they gave up. That made the fans believe that the team was capable of getting late winners and so in turn they would for years urge the team on for that late winner when they were up against it.
The confidence and belief is a 2 way stream. The team will feed of the fans passion urging them on but the fans need something to believe in. IMO it all stems from the fans confidence in their team, unfortunately for quite some time bar the 13/14 season, the fans haven’t had the greatest belief in their team.
The fans need to start playing their part by being open to the possibility that their team can turn it around, leaving the ground unnecessarily isnt part of that.
I blame Balotelli. Not the actual player, but the impetus that saw us think we could replace Suarez with someone so completely at odds with the strengths of the squad.
With a few drops of ink on a piece of paper, we negated the through balls of Coutinho, the attacking energy of Henderson, and the inch-perfect diagonal passes of Gerrard. In essence, Balotelli retired Gerrard, forcing Rodgers to manage Captain Fantastic’s legs because there was no point in keeping him deep (where he earned PFA Team of the Year months earlier).
There was an emotional hangover from the 13/14 season, but the failure to back the manager with an elite level player that suited the system left us instead with a level of dysfunction on the pitch that was, frankly, painful to watch for much of the season.
In his first season, Rodgers immediately injected 24 goals into the side. After that, another 30 more (as far as I can tell, the only time since 95/96 that we broke the 100 goal mark…1895/96). And then, miserably, 50 goals less. After dropping 30 points out of 114, we drop 42. Still 10 points more than KK’s final season, but it isn’t easy going back to the farm after seeing the lights of Paris.
After such a clear vision in 13/14, Rodgers’ final months – injury crisis and transfer disaster aside – were just as bereft of vision and conviction as the final months of Dalglish. With goals dried up and no indication of even a corner we could turn, it is not surprising that there is an exhaustion in the fan base.
Yes, Klopp has injected some passion, but the truth is that we are still hung over. Yes, fans have been fickle and exits have been early over the years, but the reasons for that has not remained constant. So, while the resulting empty seats may be the same, I’d hesitate to say that it is merely a continuation of an age-old pattern.
Whilst I agree with that, my question would be why do we need a Luis Suarez before we start getting behind the team? The answer is because we expect to win and nothing else will do. I’m ok with that but if we go behind and we’ve still got a chance to get something then it’s here we need to change.
I expected an equaliser and a victory last Sunday. For the first time since Saurez left…. that Klopp has brought belief already is testament to his class.
When Klopp has truly put his team before us, I suspect there will be few in a hurry to leave. Especially now after the manager has addressed the supporters. After all, he is German, he sees the support as part of the team, not customers expecting value.
Everyone knows someone who left the Ataturk early after all.
I am Still ecstatic Klopp is here.
I am curious to know, how was the Dortmund support prior to Klopps appointment? Anybody?
In other words was he responsible for unifying the fan base and encouraging vociferous support, after the club being nearly bankrupt or were the fans as noisy and partisan throughout the wind and rain?
The fans that create(d) the ‘famous Anfield atmosphere’ deserve more respect from the club, which has earn’t big sums and clinched deals on the back of their efforts, everything must be done to make the Kop more partisan and intimidating, indeed how many people started following Liverpool coz they were dazzled by the passion of the Kop.