PAUL Senior hangs on for me as I wait for The Pink show to bounce. I’ve no idea what bouncing is or what bouncing entails, but anyway. We have a chat and he says he’s maybe watched too much football. He hasn’t missed a domestic game since West Ham away in September 2014.
Watching too much football is something we talk a lot about on The Anfield Wrap. That there are people in the ground who have just seen too much for too long. Think about that run of games for Paul. Think about it.
For a ton of them Liverpool will not have had a recognised centre forward on the pitch. Of the rest, for most of them, Liverpool will not have had an elite centre forward on the pitch. Liverpool have drawn eight of their last nine games on English soil in all comps.
Paul would just like a win. We’d all just like a win.
There are tons of Pauls knocking around. I know when Anfield seems a long way away, which it is for many of you, or when away tickets seem a closed shop, which it is for many of you, there isn’t always a ton of sympathy for this sort of thing. We choose when we go. But we want to go because we want to believe in the Reds. Commune with the Reds.
Today we saw what an elite centre forward can do. Turn a game slogging towards a draw into a win. Today we saw what a side, and a support, exhausted by drawing can do — snatching a point from the jaws of victory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUmNRi62614
When I spoke to people after the game there was a sense that James Milner gave a daft free kick away. It’s being spoken of in a manner similar to one given away in 2009 at Anfield against Everton when Mikel Arteta bends it in for Tim Cahill to equalise.
That was a dangerous position, this was over 40 yards from our goal.
If, when it is given, you, me, the players think “here we go” then that isn’t an issue around the free kick. It is an issue around the collective mentality. It should simply be dealt with. It’s a free kick 40 yards from goal. Yet Liverpool are undone again.
These lads have seen too much football. Played too much football together since West Ham away in 2014.
It isn’t dealt with.
Fine margins. Fine margins that always feel they are going against us. Everybody makes mistakes, but it seems it’s ours that always keep on stinging.
It’s quietly crazy how mediocre the number nine options have been since West Ham away in 2014. Everyone grew sick of me banging on about goals (and I understand why) but however you want to play the game if you want to do anything you need your top talent there.
Had the player who finished the game there started it things may have been different. Though Liverpool may well still have found ways to come undone.
There is a certain amount to be discussed in the football match: Liverpool working their free man over but it mostly being Moreno, Firmino bright as a button, that magnificent header.
But these occurrences are now in the context of having watched too many of these lads do my head in. Coutinho having that shot. Emre showing his man a space the size of Wales. Lallana over elaborating. Skrtel grabbing.
Are these things happening too often or have I just seen them too much? Them doing my head in makes it difficult to be sure.
They are probably doing each other’s head in. They are probably on their own case.
Until the draws become wins all this will remain the case. That’s football, however much of it you’ve had. That is the key part about football. A win helps. A win always helps. Until then trials and tribulations.
Up the Reds. Soon. Please.
READ: Liverpool v Southampton – Player Ratings
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
Be good to get mourinho the boot next week though.
If any game has stalemate written all over it, it’s that one.
That was 1-1 last season. Bet the house.
Elite players make a difference they are the fine margins. The difference between Mignolet and de Gea or Sanchez and Lallana, Origi and Benteke. Quality over potential.
Lucas Leiva ; a great performance! A great performance compared to some others.Compared to some others who ran around getting nowhere.Getting nowhere but they should have had somewhere to go.Somewhere to go against Southampton.Against Southampton who were there for the taking.There for the taking but would …….
Lucas lifted his head. The only one on the pitch not effected by fear.
This bit of the BBC website match report seems about right…
“The Reds have appeared to become, in such a short space of time, a team that is hard to defeat.
The energy spent by the hunting packs in closing down space when Southampton had the ball was impressive. Known as a form of gegenpressing – immediate closing down of counter-attacks – the Reds enjoyed over 60% possession and limited the Saints to just three efforts on target.
But on the flip side Klopp does not appear to have the necessary attacking players to make that possession count in the opposition’s third.”
Not much else to say really
I may be completely wrong here but when I saw Milners challenge for the yellow I wondered whether it was intentional to get his fifth yellow. Despite his form we wouldn’t want to be be without his industriousness against Palace or City in the absence of Henderson. I’m sure it would suit LFC if he picked up a yellow in the last 5 mins today. Pointless wildly speculating then saying it was naive so I’ll leave that one there.
To be honest, I’m a bit sick of Liverpool fans. I don’t think I mean as a collective because we’re all different thank god. Yeah, every Liverpool fan in the world is disappointed today but there’s a lotta shit being talked as well. I’m with Klopp. There’s too much doom around and the players feel it. Our mentality needs to change on the pitch but it does off it too. I don’t blame the ones in the ground. Their goal was a real kick in the dick and as has become apparent recently, the majority of the crowd need the players to lift them. We don’t really get behind the team unconditionally. Some do, most don’t. It was hard to wanna do anything other than just slump into your seat completely deflated. I know that mood carries onto people’s tweets but I really wish I could refrain from having a peek at Twitter after games. I was seething today. So many dickheads.
A team is determined by it’s striker(s). With Origi we’re no better than West Brom or Swansea. In fact , they have better strikers than us in our first halves recently. We’ve seen it all before. No strikers, no midfield creativity. Melissa Reddy got it right on City Talk. Although I didn’t think it was a huge revelation most aren’t citing it as the reason for Coutinho’s form. Then there’s Henderson. I only say this to back up my belief of how important he is for us but I said after the City game in 2014 that losing Henderson could end our dream. I said to my mates when he got injured a few weeks ago that his injury could spell the end for Rodgers. Take Aguero and Silva out of City and despite having top players they seem fairly average. No, I’m not saying Henderson is like Silva but he is as important to us and him to them.
Henderson and Sturridge out is not the full story though. We questioned it everytime we bought another number 10 but assumed there must be a plan. We have no width. It’s clear as day. Take away width and a forward option and is it any wonder the midfield struggle? One poor bit of defending today (ok, a few more examples can be cited like the Sakho header and the odd corner but nothing catastrophic until the goal). I thought there were some more positives in defence. If we don’t concede in that one calamitous moment then the picture is hugely different tonight. Some players are starting to impress me. Lucas was immense. Best I’ve seen him in years. Firmino looked ok for once. Benteke impressed me for the first time. Moreno lacks quality but makes up for it in fight. We just need the above players back and we’ll be ok.
It all comes down to me feeling embarrassed of our fans. Ok, I was definitely on board with the hysteria in the first week but Klopp made it clear it was all a bit ridiculous. Yet still, the normal one t-shirts turned up. I was made up the lads who went to Spurs didn’t sing he’s big he’s red…song. I thought it was a good song in the first week of Klopp but by Spurs I realised it was part of the bullshit Klopp hates. This man isn’t a circus act. He’s deadly serious underneath the persona. Last week I kept getting images of Brian in the hole in Life of Brian when he tells all the followers to fuck off and they ask how shall we fuck off, oh lord. Now after 3 tough games with all the problems we have and have had, the snide comments are creeping in. Maybe he’s not the messiah. I can’t see much change from Rodgers. Please, spare us. He’s doing everything right in my eyes but we’ve got some issues he’s inherited. Call me sycophantic but I wanted to show him we could create an atmosphere. He must think we’re all knobheads. I felt for him that a world class manager has given up better offers to come to us because he buys into the fans of the club and we offer that pitiful welcome on Thursday. He insinuated today we’re weird in our attitude to not winning. His calmness and spot on interpretations makes it more embarrassing. It’s almost like after 2 weeks he’s already looking down on us. He’s worked us out.
Liverpool just need some time to get their players back and Klopp needs time to get his ideas across. It’s been 3 games. Shit saying but you can’t polish a turd. Not after 3 games anyway. Wish everyone who says ‘we’re so average, now he knows the scale of the task in front of him, Coutinho doesn’t suit his style etc would stop trying to make out on Twitter they’re some kind of expert. They know fuck all. They don’t even understand the basics of football. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
“His calmness and spot on interpretations makes it more embarrassing. It’s almost like after 2 weeks he’s already looking down on us. He’s worked us out.”
Agreed and very well put. Usually the new manager comes in and hopes to win the respect of the fans. In this case, it’s the other way round.
Let’s put another old cliche to bed – that nobody is bigger than the club. Frankly, the guy dwarfs us.
We are like the the panicky and pathetic old man, shuffling back home from the chemist, who gets stopped in the street and is asked “Didn’t you used to be James Hunt?”.
3 games in there has been a vast improvement, effort has doubled and for me that is enough for now. That equaliser was conceded because of fear. Not because they were not good enough. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Was Martin Skrtel is playing like a giant Labrador retriever instead of a leader in the back?
Yes, he wasn’t and it seemed Llana was anonymous. As for our striker situation, if our hopes are pinned on a perennially injured striker (Sturridge, getting as bad as Harry Kewel)…yeah.
I agree give Klopp time but you really can’t polish some turds.
Mate, this is just so well said. More than anything, our supporters are letting us down. Talk about a quick honeymoon. Klopp said we need a restart when he came in, meaning we needed to flush all the shit down the toilet and have a fresh start. Instead, our supporters just sprayed a bit of air freshener over the stench. Restart, Detox… Whatever you want to call it, this man deserves better. We are Liverpool. Unconditional support is hopefully still somewhere there in our DNA.
Milner’s ball for Benteke’s header of the weekend (soz Andy) was a peach. He needs to have a word with himself over how poor his dead ball delivery has been on that evidence because he’s evidently got it in his locker.
Think it was John Gibbons who came up with the most poignant shout on young players ever talking about Shelvey: “think he’s gonna be a player but I don’t want to have to watch him develop.” That is so Origi for me; I can’t be doing with him. I’d have the patience for it if I’d spent the last year watching real center forwards so maybe it’s me. People are making Ngog comparisons but for me he’s not even at that point yet, which is frankly frightening.
Jesus tonight. ‘Evidence’ and ‘evidently’ within a few words of each other there. I’ve still got it.
Forgot to mention how nice I thought Firmino looked when he came on. Didn’t do anything demonstratively brilliant obviously, but he just looked like a footballer which was relieving more than anything else.
Re: Milner’s cross – a broken clock tells the right time, twice a day.
Forget who said it. Decent cross, great goal. Seriously, if you pick any random of the week of the Football League Show, you’ll find one better. The Ruskies had a better one to set up their opener on Thursday.
Milner reminds me of Rafa’s pursuit of Gareth Barry. So much effort, so much mediocrity. All his skills point to him as a wide man so naturally he wants to play centrally. His passing is poor to inconsistent. Little creativity in his decision making. He seems constantly a half second late in his tackles. It’s not easy to beat Lucas and Skrtel to the first yellow card accumulation ban.
Honestly, we need more accuracy and incisiveness in the central midfield and he hurts the cause. Illaramendi seems like he would have been a positive addition. I’m still holding out hope that under hypnosis we can find whatever Brasilian remains in Lucas after Rafa finished with him.
I hope Jurgen Klopp has a good eye for a player because we’ve been signing ‘bang average’ (c.H. Redknapp) players and selling good players for far too long.
Our net transfer spend needs to be a bit above 25mill per season to see that happen.
Ask Rodgers what an eye for talent does when you’ve got a transfer committee with an eye for resale value, a strict wage structure, and a limit on players over 25 (including defenders). Plus one appearance in the Champions League since 09/10.
Here’s an 11 for legitimate targets rejected (not even fanciful ones like Cavani and Benzema that were, according to James Pearce, actually sounded out).
————————–Vorm————————–
Montoya-Papadapolous-Williams-Bertrand
—–Eriksen—Mkhitaryan—Konoplyanka—–
——-Sanchez——-Costa——–Willian———
Subs: Bony, Salah, etc., etc.
Famous last words: “I can categorically tell you Mario Balotelli will not be at Liverpool.”
Koop didn’t do too bad with heavier constraints at Dortmund.
Agreed, but there are affordable players out there. How much did Douglas Costa cost? Jose Fonte? Mane? Cazorla? etc. etc.
Rodgers didn’t have an eye for talent and he was part of the TC
The manager can work on individual players’ mentality. He can bin players who can’t change, and over time replace them with those who have the right type of mentality. At the moment his comments on this seem to be as much directed towards the crowd as the players. Massive challenge to turn that around. We’ve managed to perfect a collective, almost choreographed, groan when certain things happen. When Milner gave away that free kick the reaction from the crowd almost pre-determined a goal
After the goal Southampton should’ve won it down our right because Milner was truly shot and Clyne was all over the place. In that sense a draw was actually a good result.
Origi looks so poor for me. It was telling how much better we looked in the 2nd half with Benteke; he posed more threat in the first 90 seconds of the 2nd half than Origi did in the entire 1st half.
He doesn’t show for the ball the way a good striker should. A good striker will say to his teammates ‘get the ball up to me, just hit me and I’ll do something with it’. Origi seems to hide and not want the ball. When it comes near him he is the epitome of the old classic Sunday league shout ‘he doesn’t want it!’ when a shit player gets on the ball and panics.
I may be being harsh because he’s a young lad, but Gibbo’s dating analogy from the match ratings sums it up perfectly for me! If we can get Benteke starting from now on and if glass legs Sturridge ever manages to get back on the pitch then these draws will start turning into wins and we’ll start moving up the table
Klopp may be the sort of man who can make Origi improve, but I can’t help thinking we/he would be better off trying to improve a player that has shown more natural talent.
Origi hasn’t pulled up many trees anywhere. Not at Lille, in a weak French league, nor in the Belgian national team which has great attacking players to support him like Hazard and De Bruyne (to be fair, Lukaku’s international goal stats aren’t much better), or with us in the few games we have seen him play.
The only reason Origi seems to have any sort of profile is because Belgium have very few options upfront and, by default, he has found himself part of their international set-up (as has Laurent Depoitre, a very limited striker who plays for Gent).
But Belgium are ranked number 1 in the world, because they have a great keeper, an excellent defence and a brilliant midfield. If Origi was German, I doubt he would have got anywhere near the top flight in any major footballing nation.
I really hope the lad can prove us all wrong, but he looks like a very mediocre footballer. Much worse than Ngog did, a player that has failed to deliver in both the Championship and Ligue 1 since he left us.
Totally agreed on Origi, mate.
Worst striker We’ve had since Sean Dundee.
Sean Dundee won’t be happy with that mate ;)
I feel like writing a letter of apology to Jurgen Klopp. What a waste of money.
What ever happened to the simple football technique of playing the odd “one-two”? I am sure a lot of us who read or contribute to TAW still play football. I do. I hate to over simplify but it strikes me that if there was more of an emphasis on playing one two’s would, if not solve all our problems, at least show that we are trying something. I am pretty sure the best two bits of play in the Saints match came from one-two’s. There was the Moreno – Can – Moreno one were Moreno ended up wasting the position he got to on the bye line but which initially split open their defence. The other was when Milner – Lallana – Milner ended in Milner pushing a shot a touch wide from a promising position on the edge of the box.
I am sure someone is going to tell me i am being horribly naive, its not that simple la la la… but it works for me in 6 aside, and it produced our 2 best moments yesterday. Football is a simple game ffs. Lets do more of it. Running with intent. Running off the ball when we have it. pass and move, but wanting the ball straight back. All good teams do it. We are not doing anywhere near enough of it and it is driving me mad.
Up the reds.
Spot on Tom,
Passing not sharp enough and often the wrong choice getting made after loads of deliberation,
Maybe one/two touch football will come,
To many ins/outs over last few seasons may have a lot to do with us playing like strangers ?