I FIRST remember all this back in the Comprehensive days. The scrunched-up face and scowl from a kid who was too cool for school: “You’re an armchair, lad.”
At the time, aged about 13, I was. Violins out, but I’ve never been to a match with my old man. He’s not into the footie. And he wasn’t happy to let me go by myself. I eventually ignored the parental rules a year later and went anyway. You could walk up and pay in then, albeit that you had to get there two hours-plus before kick off to ensure you got in for some games.
My first match was in the Rumbelows Cup. A 5-1 win over Crewe. And I was one of only 17,000-odd at the game that night.
But when the armchair shout first came, it was accurate. Because that was the only place I watched the Reds.
So ‘the rules’ go, if you watch on the telly you’re not a ‘real’ fan. Circumstances might not allow it — money, distance, rules, family, work — but that matters not. Armchair. Not a real fan. Could go to every game home and away if you really wanted to. You don’t, I do. So I’m better.
Sounds childish doesn’t it? It’s not just for kids though.
Later in life, when I was regularly going to Anfield and the odd away, work thrust upon me one of the bitterest Bluenose bellends you ever could imagine. A man who, especially with a pint or two down him, was obnoxious, unreasonable and always ready to rain a shower of shite on the nearest Red. Even decent Blues (there are some) frowned in disapproval at his behaviour.
He regularly trotted out a similar line to ‘Go the game blue’ above. It might even be him. We didn’t stay in touch. “Real fans go the match, Kopites go the pub.”
The weaselly wind-up merchant, who once took things too far with a bit of classy Heysel ‘banter’, even had a little song about Liverpool fans being telly clappers. He didn’t care what the red shite says of course but he used to sing it to me anyway, even though I went the game (this isn’t him by the way, but it illustrates the point…).
A glance through social media and the forums will show this line from our Merseyside rivals continues. The club itself even adopted it for an advert for season tickets — “We’re Evertonians. We go the game. That’s what we do.” All conveniently ignoring that it’s both cheaper and easier to secure tickets for Goodison Park than it is for Anfield.
There are no half season tickets on this side of the divide. Even the forthcoming derby over there is on general sale. Meanwhile, there are games on Anfield Road that could sell 100,000-plus tickets according to those inside the club if the stadium size could match demand.
The average attendance at Anfield last year is listed as 44,659 against an official capacity of 45,276. From 1981 to 1987, according to European Football Statistics, the average attendance was below 40,000, dipping to 31,000 in 1984.
Much has changed. The season-ticket waiting list is now closed and the club is regularly roundly criticised for members’ sales. The system has many flaws but the truth is a way to sell tickets at Anfield that can satisfy everyone, such is the demand locally, nationally and internationally, probably doesn’t exist.
The new Main Stand will take Anfield’s capacity to 54,000 by 2016/17 but “around half” of the expansion will go to corporate hospitality, according to the club. Outline planning permission for a proposed Anfield Road extension to take the ground to 59,000 has been granted but the club’s website doesn’t sound particularly hopeful stating the Main Stand will be completed and “then, and only then might we take a look at the Anfield Road stand”.
So in general terms, demand outstrips supply, certainly for the ‘ordinary’ fan.
Which takes me to the next point. I was fortunate enough to spend the weekend just gone in New York as a guest of NYC Kopites. After talking to Reds at both ‘the Bootroom’ at The Irish American Pub and Carragher’s New York, it was clear the people religiously watching every Liverpool game over there — a mixture of ex-pats and locals — all share a love of the Reds, are all knowledgeable, all know the words to the songs and respect and continue the fan culture Liverpool supporters are so desperate to preserve on this side of the pond at the match.
These Reds discussed how ridiculous the Kop flags spat between fans and club had been, how more kids should have access to tickets, what difference the new stand would make and so on and so on.
The conversations were no different to thousands of others you’ll hear in and around Anfield this weekend. They aren’t the bucket listers arriving loaded with shopping bags and talking through the game for 90 minutes while sporting a half and half — they get it. It was a similar experience when we went over to Australia and enjoyed the company of the Melbourne and Sydney Reds — Spirit of Shankly badges, Hillsborough banners, Adidas trainers….
So should they be written off as ‘telly clappers’? Frowned at and sneered at? Dismissed as armchairs? It’s 3,307 miles from New York to Anfield and 10,500 from Sydney to L4. What are these supporters supposed to do? Should the Liverpool-supporting Norris Green girl who coaches footie over there not watch the game on the telly? Should she not try to visit Anfield when she comes home? What about the Scouse mum who lives with her American husband? Outcast now, never to return into Red arms? Waved away as ‘not as good as us’?
And what about the Americans who have fell in love with our club through watching it on the telly, reading about our history, buying into the culture? The Premier League is plastered all over the screens in the US, with the Manchester United v Liverpool game shown on terrestrial TV. They make a day of it over there — the early kick off, the 3pm and the late match providing quite the opportunity for a piss up.
If they want to experience Anfield and contribute to the atmosphere once or twice a year — recreating the passion shown for Liverpool in the New York bars — is that as bad as another unwritten rule of fandom suggests? The one about out-of-towners?
Like the idea that someone who watches a game on the telly is a nailed-on ‘lesser’ supporter, it seems to be an outdated concept — out of tune with the reach of the game, and Liverpool, and the quality of the coverage in 2015.
To turn it on its head for a moment, one of the Anfield Wrap travelling party, Phil Blundell, a home and away Red, was glued to the coverage of the American football while we were over there. He easily held his own talking about the game to the locals while trying to deliver a crash course to those of us at TAW who don’t know the first thing about NFL (me being one).
It’s fair to say he knows his stuff, yet he’s never set foot inside an American football ground. He’s an NFL telly clapper. An American football armchair fan. Does it matter? Should he ever go to a match in the States, or should he leave it to the locals? Does it make him less of a fan either way?
For many Anfield regulars, going to a match will always top the telly for the rituals, the mates, the experience and the atmosphere. But to blanket all those that tune into the box as second-class fans is bunkum given how the game has developed.
It’s not just because of fans abroad, either. With ticket prices continuing to rise, demand remaining strong and opportunities for young Reds to pay a reduced price limited, the telly is the only option for many Liverpool fans close to home, including those priced out or those who have never been able to afford it in the first place.
Even of those who do go, the all-in fan, home and away, England and abroad, every week, every season, is surely dropping in numbers with every dawn of a new August. I only have the anecdotal evidence of people I know, but facing a four-figure, even five-figure, bill, I imagine most fans pick and choose now, swerving the cups, or the aways, or the trips to Europe to suit their budget. Following your team religiously is a huge financial — and logistical — commitment.
We can point to the role of Liverpool, and the Premier League, in aggressively marketing the game, the club and ‘the brand’ around the world to create the current ticket situation, but none of this is the fans’ fault. Wherever they’re from. Or whatever their age.
You’re not allowed to watch it on the telly? In 2015, you probably have to. The armchairs are everywhere.
READ: YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO… support a second football team
READ: YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO… like Everton or Manchester United players
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
Spot on mate, I’ve found it nearly impossible to get tickets for the last few years. My last match was the 08 CL qualifier against Standard Liege due to having stubs from the group games the season previous. The club then changed the rules and I haven’t been able to get one since for any competition. It cost me a pretty penny 7 years ago to get down from Cumbria, god knows what it would cost now to get me and my lad there. I fear it will be a long time before he gets to see the Reds play anywhere other than on the telly.
But does this make us any less of a fan than someone lucky enough to have a season ticket? Unfortunately, in some people’s eyes, yes.
There’s a finite amount of games in a season. There’s a finite amount of seats in the stadium. We have a massive fan base that could probably sell out Anfield twice over for the vast majority of games. These numbers just don’t work which means most supporters have to watch the team on the telebox.
I’ve a fan card and I still find it hard to get tickets because there’s that much demand.
Ignore the idiots who think they know better. Maths can’t be their strong point.
Be in as much as you want to be in. Enjoy it. Give your passion as a gift. As far as I can tell, fandom is not mandatory… it’s an honor, a privilege, something we do together. The bitter ones, they can be in. The sometime fan, they are in. Up at three AM to stream it live? You’re in. Love the songs? Me too. Don’t know the words? Neither did I… we all got to learn. Everyone who loves it is in. Everyone who wants it is in. The more the merrier. When Liverpool win, we all win.
I couldn’t afford to got the match on my wages even if I did live close enough.
Great piece Gareth, living in Dublin I’m lucky enough to be able to get over to Anfield when I can for a fairly reasonable price provided you’re clever with the flights (fly into Manchester, train to Lime St etc.).
I don’t get over as much as I used to unfortunately, at 33 I, like most fans, have more responsibilities making it harder and harder to get over, don’t get me wrong if I could go home and away to every game I would, Anfield is one of my favorite places on the planet!
I did 16 or so games in 06/07 my most in 1 season including away to Barca and the final in Athens and every home Champions League tie with home league fixtures in between, it cost me a fortune but I loved every minute of it even if Kaka broke our hearts that night in Athens. The previous night, in Syntagma square, (any red there that night will remember) was one of my best football related nights, great criac singing songs, talking to other reds etc.
I consider myself a die hard red, I know the history and the songs, I still have the 3 cassette VHS tapes on the history of the club my Ma got me for Christmas when I was around 12 or so, I must have watched it a hundred times over the years.
But I have to say, and it’s something I’ve noticed more in recent years that plenty of local fans literally look down at you or scoff when you might try sing a song, I was actually told to shut up by a Scouser at the Madrid home game last season cause I dared to try sing a song when we were being ruined by a very good side.
What the fuck is the point in “going the game” if you’re going to be a cunt to some fan who is not lucky enough to get to every game, so when they do they really want to make the most of it? Why am I so different to the local fan? At least, for me I feel I make a real contribution to the atmosphere when I go to games, I know when you’re on the Kop you break into Poor Scouser Tommy after YNWA, well you used to anyway.
The regular match day fan does have certain rights, they are the ones there week in week out, they spend more money on LFC then most, but I cannot abide the almost self gratifying feeling some seem to get when they sneer at a “wool”, when they won’t join in with a song cause they’re too cool for school and won’t bother, “Fucking look at this Irish lad trying to sing, the berk, the Albert will be chocka with these plazzy fans, gonna swerve that place la”
The vast majority of local fans you interact with at a game are great, they’re friendly and always have a quick quip to make you laugh, they love their club and like the fact that many non Scousers do too.
But it seems to be a growing number of local fans who seem to inherently dislike the fact that me, or more so say a fan from more far flung places then Dublin going to a game. The article written by a Thai fan that was published on here a few months back was a brilliant piece, all these fans want to do is be part of it, to sing songs, support the team (funny how many foreign fans seem to have allot more support and far less criticism then some locals), be part of what makes going to Anfield special.
As discussed at length on pods over the past few years the general atmosphere in Anfield (and most Premier League clubs) has dramatically declined, the way tickets are sold is a huge part of it , the fact that if you’re lucky you may get 2 or 3 tickets together at most makes it more difficult to get songs going, safety in numbers and all that, but I genuinely feel that many foreign fans who travel almost feel intimidated by some locals, they’re almost scared to try start a song without being sneered at or like in my case told to shut up cause I dared show support to a team being beaten.
I was at Wembley for the cup semi final last season and the Villa fans put us to shame, from the first minute they sang as one and from my vantage point they were having a great time, even when we went one up bar a brief few mins they out sang us throughout, again me and my mate Dave (everyone goes the game with their mate Dave!) tried in vain to get songs going but to no avail. But the worst part of that day was the walk out. Obviously very disappointed fans streamed out but all I heard on that long walk up Wembley Way was fuck Rodgers, Fuck this fuck that, OK yeah I get it, shit performance and we as fans deserve to vent but where do we draw the line? Saying Rodgers is a fraud over and over again won’t make us any better, and while this sound in many ways like I’m Scouse bashing all the fuck Brendan’s I heard came from people with Scouser accents.
What do we want as “wools” (term used in endearment) when we go to a game? We want what any local fans want, we want the Reds to play well and win (when the reds win we all win), we want to be part of the “famous” atmosphere, we want to sing songs and be the 12th man. Yeah a bucket list fan may go into the club shop and come out dressed from head to toe in Liver bird gear but so what? It’s all part of the day for them, it’s just one aspect of the experience, an Asian red may not know the words to Poor Scouser Tommy but I’d put a hefty sum on them at least trying to hum along to the tune, they may love their camera and record every last second of a game, capturing these moments is important to them, so what?
We love Liverpool Football club, that’s why we do it, that’s why we spend the money to go, and it can be a very expensive trip to some, again I’m lucky to live closer to Liverpool then many foreign fans.
When that lad at the Madrid game told me to shut up I did, I fucking did, and it still pisses me off today, fuck that lad, I should have turned around and told him to go fuck himself in Gaelic then asked him to show some fucking support and not criticize me for doing something he should be doing anyway, yeah Ronaldo was Ronaldo, Kroos and Modric had us chasing shadows, but what does Couthino want to hear when he’s struggling? A local fan saying “shut up la ya berk plazzy wool”? (exaggeration for dramatic effect) Or maybe hear a fan encouraging him to go again, a fan singing The fields of Anfield Road even when we’re being hammered by a superior side?
The rendition of YNWA at half time in Istanbul is now LFC folklore, the players talk about how important it was, that’s only 10 years ago, what’s changed? I genuinely couldn’t see that happening in this current vein, 13/14 the support was great, as was the team, so yes it’s important to note that on pitch performance can go along way to pushing the decibel levels from the stands up, but it’s different now, it’s been a slow degrade over the past decade more so in the past 5 years. Is it all the “wools” fault? It’s part of the reason, you will have some bucket list fans, corporate guests etc. who are just there for the one day, but I will happily swear on any bible that many non local fans are genuinely worried about the perception local fans have of them in the ground, if you get shot down trying to sing a song will you do it again? 99% of people won’t.
We go cause we love the club but there is more to it than that, when you take the club into your heart and make it a huge part of your life you also embrace the city, the culture, hell we even adopt Scouse accents when singing certain songs! It’s important to feel wanted and to feel you’re part of the “family”, getting told to shut up by a heavy Scouse accent doesn’t make you feel welcome, it doesn’t encourage you to be vocal in your support.
You know what would be interesting? To have a whole section of one stand be just non local fans, how do you think that would sound? My guess, and it is of course just a guess, is it would be louder then lots of sections with majority local fans. why? Because ya know what la we love that bird too.
“You know what would be interesting? To have a whole section of one stand be just non local fans, how do you think that would sound? My guess, and it is of course just a guess, is it would be louder then lots of sections with majority local fans. why? Because ya know what la we love that bird too.”
Spot on lad. I’ve only been to Anfield about 6 or 7 times in my life mostly due to moving to Texas when I was young. But I can confidently say that if the group of fans who regularly watch games here in Austin were to go to a match together we’d be far more boisterous than 90% of the fans I’ve sat next to at Anfield and I’ve sat in every stand including the Kop.
I think some of that comes down to those that go every game honestly just getting jaded and I’m not saying it wouldn’t happen to our group too if we were able to go all the games. It’s more of an event, more special if you can’t go all the time.
So maybe there’s something to be said for encouraging people NOT to go to every game. Make it more special when you do go. How to implement that from a ticket sales standpoint I don’t know.
Also I do agree that if they could somehow find a way to get groups of mates to go together it would really help but I don’t see how you do that.
Spot on that mate, I was at the Bournemouth game earlier this season and was told by two very “polite” scousers sitting next to me that ” You better not keep that up the whole fucking game” in reference to me attempting to join in with the already miserable atmosphere in the ground just prior to kick off. Meanwhile just yards away a few hundred cherries fans were rocking the Anfield road end, Savouring every minute and having a cheeky dig at our famous atmosphere.
Just as you said, i spent the rest of the match unsure of what to do and sat in a sad silence thinking, where is the songs, the camaraderie and the “best fans in the world” that my dad, uncles and brother have told me about all my life.
I sat in a stunned silence during You’ll never walk alone as scores of people sat around me talking, looking at phones or just staying silent. I barely got my scarf above my head and looked embarrassed at the wife after telling her she would be blown away by the passion that would be shown during our most famous song.
The entire “match day experience” from that moment on was nothing but groans or screams of disappointment if a kid like Ibe or Gomez misplaced at pass. The best part of the day was the ribbing we got from a good natured, Hilarious, bluenose cab driver that dropped us off close to the ground.
Them Cherries fans were right, Where is our famous atmosphere ?
Had a similar experience myself on my first visit to anfield a few years ago. I’m from Northern Ireland and when I took my seat a few of the locals made a comment about bloody foreigners coming to games. Made me feel very uncomfortable and if I’m honest kind of ruined it for me, I sat in silence the whole match because of it.
I would love to get to more games but unfortunately because of the way the ticketing system is its virtually impossible for me to get tickets with regular match goers getting first pick. Then there is the expense of a flight to Liverpool and a hotel and then spending money for the day. You wouldn’t be far off 400 quid for trip to a game
Great point about Istanbul.
How many fans would be moaning or slagging off the manager at halftime instead of singing YNWA to uplift their team.
I’ve no time for cunts who think they are superior in whatever aspect of life, they can all do one.
What a brilliant post. I’ve been in the receiving end of scouse abuse as well but I didn’t accept it. I told him people like me and other worldwide fans are the main reason LFC is not Derby County and can afford to buy the Torres’ and Suarez’s of the world, so unless he wanted to see Liverpool never challenge for honours again he’d shut the fuck up.
I was also in the toilets at Wembley at half time during the semi final and I heard a scouser say “I bet you half these cunts won’t be on the kop next week”
It has to be said that regardless of the problems on the pitch, supporters using the term “wool” or phrases like “wool behaviour” are simply going to hurt the club they profess to love. If international fans don’t feel apart of it and feel intimidated to not sing songs and support the team the way they want, they will either just watch on TV or choose another club. Then Liverpool will become a club like Derby – great local support but noone outside the city giving a toss, which leads to no massive merch and ticket sales, a hit to the finances and no money for big transfers or big salaries to good players.
In the first TAW podcast I ever listened to, I heard Neil talk about this and he was as annoyed as any non scouse supporter about the attititude of fans from the city towards toise from out of town. It was the main reason I listened to a second TAW pod. But its as bad now as its ever been and nothing has been said about it on here for a while.
This is one of the best things I’ve read on here ndoyle. Fuck smallmindedness wherever it’s encountered. As an out-of-town Red from Cornwall (no professional teams-what are we meant to do?), I’ve not experienced anything as bad as you describe at Anfield but a few derogatory comments at Lime St (possibly bluenoses) and always feel intimidated to sing on my own at Anfield. Given Liverpool’s history though, those kind of comments to Irish fans are especially out of order. Fuck ’em.
Gareth, I think the one upmanship was even worse than you describe. In my recollection going go Anfield was one thing but you had to go to the aways to be a “real” fan
I managed to watch three games Saturday, starting with the Everton match at four in the morning, the Manc game at 9.00 am. Sunday it was Sunderland, (Borini worked hard) and a wee bit of the West ham game. When I call my dad in Bootle he can only listen live on the radio and then watch match of the day. I assume I could purchase a tv package for him? He is getting too old for trips to the pub and plus my ma would be on his case as they run a tight ship and budget. He is and has been the most knowledgable footie fan I have ever met. Back in the dark days of national service he played for his regiment, with the likes of Jimmy Melia and against Duncan Edwards no less. I recall him going to the game back in the late sixties, and he took me on occasion, though an older cousin was my usual companion. Once I was working (from fifteen as an apprentice) I roamed the country with my mates and went home and away. That was the early seventies, and the auld feller had long since stopped going. Bringing up four kids on his wages meant he had no chance. In those days Anfield was and always will be for me. Memorable and I spent some of the happiest days of my life amongst lads I have long ago lost touch with. Life goes on, we make choices and live with them. I miss Anfield, the town, the night life and above all my old mates. I still have my dad to discuss the game with, the armchair fan, whose sage opinion I always look forward to. How about those who played amateur and such on Saturdays and Sundays and in so doing missed the games? You could hardly question their opinions if the local footie is as good as it was back then. On the odd occasion I watch a game in the pub, I am impressed by the enthusiasm of the “new” American fans who love the game and, after all, are responsible for me being able to gorge myself on the games each week. I too will hold out hope that we can get our shit together and become the force we once where. As an aularse I want all our fellow fans, armchair, the fantastic away fans, and every bugger that watches wherever they are to experience the joys I have.
There are some regular match-going supporters who wouldn’t know how properly to analyze a match if their life depended on it.
As for their actual support . . . I don’t know, if you do go, support. The analysis, moaning, whinging, the rest of the stuff we all do is for before and after.
Cheers for the piece, Gareth!
From a scouser to non-scousers.
Please don’t be afraid or uncomfortable to tell any Scouser who sneers or comments negatively on your genuine, good-natured attempts to create something, or be involved in something, to politely fuck off.
To be honest when I was younger I was probably of the ilk mentioned in a few replies, the hostile to wools type. Now it’s different,maturity I suppose, it is what it is.
As for Everton, that ‘we go the game’ slogan that the club itself has gleefully adopted to sell tickets, is up there as probably the most cringeworthy shout I can think of.
I used to live about an hour from Anfield. I managed to get a season ticket in 1994. I now live in Perth, Australia and have not lived in the UK for 8 years. My season ticket remains mine but 4 of my mates in the UK use it on a rotational basis.
I must be a) a wool and b) a tellyclapper
Losing to Man U still hurt like hell, the difference? I was up until 2.30am watching it having to go to work at 7am the next day.
I’m A Red who lives in Sydney, went to Melbourne and Brisbane and was in New York last week for the Man U game, was on the tube from Harlem to Times Square to meet me mate Phil ( both Birkenhead lads who have lived in Sydney for a long time) I met a young American lad on the train in his colours who said ” go to the Irish American for the game” ,we did this and it was amazing to meet all of the USA Reds , same as in Australia, Scouse Dads with there Ozzy /American lads all fighting for the cause, we are all in the same gang, we are now an International Club and we have to embrace that, a great mate of mine who happens to be a bluenose said ” ah you’ve got 3000 Nowegians at every game “, but that’s a good thing, it’s a big club thing and we need to embrace it, last of all an apology , we where the one’s who told you to shut up when you where prattling on about taking shots when the game was on