FLAGGING SUPPORT: A Brendan Rodgers banner is lifted on The Kop before the Champions League match against Ludogorets last September
“IN mathematics and digital electronics, a binary number is a number expressed in the binary numeral system, or base-2 numeral system, which represents numeric values using two different symbols: typically 0 (zero) and 1 (one).”
In today’s game, too many football fans view things as binary. Win or lose. Good or bad. Goal or miss. Black or white. There is no longer a grey area as far as the modern-day fan is concerned, it seems. In his match review of the home loss to West Ham, Neil Atkinson refers to it as “a need to be explicit”.
Here’s a case in point. On Sunday morning, I joined Neil, Rob Gutmann and Stu Wright to discuss the defeat to the Hammers. We talked for an hour and 25 minutes about everything that was wrong with the game — from team selection to individual performances and tactics.
Here are a couple of the comments on the TAW website regarding our discussion:
“The panel discuss the failings of the team, the set up, tactics etc as if they just went out there and done everything off the cuff, making it up as they went along. Rodgers doesn’t get a mention. He’s the reason, fellas.”
“I love the way the panel uses the collective ‘we’ when discussing poor team selections, vague tactics and bizarre in-game changes. I know we all refer to Liverpool FC as ‘we’, but it’s Rodgers who has the power to do what they complain about, but he is rarely mentioned. It’s as if suggesting he doesn’t know what he’s doing is taboo. Like a panelist said, echoed by Rob, ‘I support Liverpool FC so I support the manager’ as though it was a badge of honour and loyalty. If we all thought that then Souness would still be running the show.”
Is it not implied that if we make criticisms of the starting line-up, the tactics and the substitutions we are talking about the manager? Have we really got to the point that people need to say, “Brendan Rodgers, the Liverpool manager, got the following things wrong”?
There’s a perfectly acceptable debate to be had about Rodgers’ decision to continue to select Dejan Lovren in Liverpool’s starting 11. On the podcast, Stu makes the point that if the manager continues to put his faith in him then that could be the main reason he loses his job.
Yet is it not also fair to point out that it’s highly unlikely that Rodgers has told the Croatian to fart around doing step overs on the halfway line? Or that he didn’t encourage the former Southampton player to basically pass the ball to Manuel Lanzini? And he definitely wouldn’t have been keen on Philippe Coutinho sliding in on Dimitri Payet.
Just as Liverpool’s tremendous defensive performance at The Emirates didn’t mean that the team was going to go the whole season unbeaten, neither does this home loss imply that we’ll never be able to win a game again.
There does now seem to be a rush to judgment after each and every game and that judgment is based on binary thinking. If Christian Benteke doesn’t score he’s a waste of money. If Lovren makes an error then he should be taken outside and shot. If Rodgers gets his tactics right, like at The Emirates, then he’s a genius. If it goes wrong like against West Ham he’s a fool.
For the hardened Rodgers critics, every time Liverpool lose it’s entirely down to him and every time they win then it’s in spite of the Northern Irishman. It makes those who view the game as having grey areas feel we’ve got to defend him from those determined to attack him.
“He’s had three seasons and we’ve won nothing,” say the critics. “We’ve given him time and he’s gone backwards — time for him to go.”
Here’s another quote from the comments under the podcast link on the TAW website:
“Rodgers has to go — the players have no confidence in him and no wonder when the most inspirational leader in Liverpool’s history, Stevie Gerard, decides to leave his beloved Liverpool! Why? This vote of no confidence by Stevie shows me Rodgers has no clue and he has displayed it time after time with inept displays. Time for Reds owners to cut their losses, admit the experiment was wrong and sign Klopp before the season is lost, which it is already.”
Let’s start with “the players have no confidence in him”. I’m interested to know what that’s based on. Presuming — as I am — that ‘Tony’ doesn’t work at Melwood and deal with the players week in, week out, maybe he’s got that idea from interviews with the players. Like when James Milner said: “After the conversation, I felt like I wanted to go and run through a brick wall for the manager and the club.”
How about the notion that Stevie G gave Rodgers a “vote of no confidence”? Is that what happened? Or did he leave because he realised he wasn’t going to get the game time he wanted? Steven Gerrard is my hero — I’ve grown up with him as the talisman of the club and he deserves to be spoken of in the same breath as Kenny Dalglish and Bill Shankly as inspirational figures at Liverpool Football Club.
But do any fans seriously think that, at the age of 35, the future of the club should be built around him? That managers should be sacked if they can’t find a way to incorporate him into the team?
Finally, let’s have a look at this sentence, which seems to be a parody of the anti-Rodgers brigade but I fear really isn’t: “Sign Klopp before the season is lost, which it is already.” The season is already lost, apparently. Four games in with two wins, one draw and one loss and seven points on the board, none of the cup competitions even started yet but the season is lost. Binary thinking.
I have no problem with criticism of the manager any more than I do with people asking questions of player performance. Where I have an issue is when the criticism takes no notice of context, refuses to acknowledge that there is a bigger picture and is based around the notion of just not liking someone or something.
I understand that the loss to West Ham is not an outlier as far as Liverpool Football Club is concerned. It’s a result that follows a worrying trend that started at the tail end of last season.
Viewed in that context it’s entirely fair for people to question the wisdom of allowing the manager to continue in his position. But that kind of thinking fails to take into account several other factors. There have been six new signings this summer, for example, to say nothing of the arrival of Divock Origi.
Of those signings, it’s fair to say that four of them are first-team players, five if you want to include Joe Gomez after his impressive start. That’s nearly half the starting XI who have never played for Liverpool before, never worked with the manager before and have barely had time to learn each other’s names.
There’s also the small matter of an entirely new backroom team who need to be given time to adjust to each other, to how the club works and to how Rodgers wants to make use of them. Those who want to stick the boot in on the manager will say that he “threw his mates under the bus” by sacking them and bringing new people in, thereby saving his own skin. But is it not also possible that those at the top of the chain at FSG decided Rodgers should be given another season and asked him what tools he felt he needed to succeed?
There’s a rush to judgment every time Liverpool play a game of football at the moment. People are refusing to give the manager any more time, feeling he’s had his chances and must be lambasted for every failure and ignored every time he gets a modicum of success. It’s all or nothing for many within the fanbase at the moment, with supporters turning on each other depending on whether or not they are in the pro or anti-Rodgers camp. But football isn’t binary — there isn’t always a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ answer.
After the game at Anfield on Saturday, West Ham boss Slaven Bilic said: “It’s one of those days that will be written in books about the club — beating Liverpool 3-0.”
That, to me, is part of the problem. For as long as I can remember games like this have mattered far more to the opposition than to Liverpool. There has almost been an arrogance from the players; a presumption that we will pick up the three points simply because we’re Liverpool and the other team are not.
I remember being at Anfield in 2008 when we drew 2-2 with Hull under Rafa Bentiez. The Reds started slowly, going a goal down but not really waking from their stupor. It wasn’t until the Tigers went 2-0 up that the team seemed to acknowledge there was a problem, turning on the style to get it back to 2-2 before promptly assuming we’d get a winner because, you know, it was Hull and the game was at Anfield. The game finished 2-2 and the truth is the Reds just never got going enough.
It’s easy to blame Rodgers for a lacklustre performance against lesser opposition but it’s happened with Liverpool teams for as long as I can remember. In other words: it isn’t black and white.
It was generally acknowledged that the Liverpool performance against Arsenal was tremendous and that on another day the Reds could have gone in three or four to the good after half time. The defensive display in the second half was excellent, with Dejan Lovren leading the backline superbly.
Was Rodgers so very wrong to go into the game against West Ham with the same starting line up? It’s easy to say so after the fact, but I’m not so sure.
Had the Reds produced the first-half display at The Emirates all over again but actually taken their chances then people would have been praising Rodgers for his consistency in team selection. Had we seen the Lovren performance from the second half at Arsenal we might not have been in such a pickle at the back.
Such things can’t be judged in a binary fashion. It’s not as simple as good or bad, black or white, shit or not. Football is not, and has never been, a binary thing.
A 0-0 draw doesn’t always mean that the game has lacked excitement, or that the teams were equal for the 90 minutes. Neither does a 4-0 scoreline always suggest that the winning team has outright dominated for the duration of the game.
Judge the manager by all means, but if you approach your assessment of him as a question of good enough or not you’ll find a way to twist every result and performance to suit your initial thought — and football just doesn’t work like that.
FREE PODCAST: The Anfield Wrap – Liverpool v West Ham
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda Photo
I agree that vitriolic and unfair comments on Rodgers do nothing to help anything, but I think that there is some serious context missing here. Last season was a disaster, and the only reason Liverpool didn’t fall further down the table is that, well, the league is a bit rubbish. Considering just how flawed a team LVG’s Man Utd was last year, it’s incredibly frustrating that LFC didn’t do more to make it hard work for them to qualify for the Champions’ League.
In that light, yes we were all happy with the Arsenal result, but it has been completely undone by a shocking thrashing at home. As was also pointed out on the podcast, you’d be sick to your stomach with a narrow 2-1 loss at home to West Ham where the ball just wouldn’t go in the damn net, but this wasn’t that. This was horrific.
Personally, I didn’t get the impression from the podcast that the lads were going “easy” on Rodgers at all. However, arguing that people would be going easier on the manager if the team had played better is pointless. The team played like a collection of people who had never met and had been introduced to the game of football half an hour before kick-off. Yes, the players played badly but when every single player plays that badly, who is at fault?
I very much want Brendan Rodgers to succeed, because if he succeeds Liverpool will win things and that will make me happy. However, he has a worrying habit of sending teams out looking complacent beyond belief and getting annihilated by far poorer teams. I’m not surprised that plenty of Liverpool fans don’t like him. I’m not surprised plenty of Liverpool fans want him out. I’m afraid that although I would love to be proved wrong, I have to count myself among those who think it’s not going to work out and that the club is better off planning for the future under a new manager.
One more point (sorry for double posting): I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a Liverpool team play as badly as I saw this team play against Stoke at the end of last season and against West Ham this past weekend. Ever. It’s understandable people are upset. I don’t think frustration with a manager whose team is regularly being humiliated counts as reacting to isolated results.
That’s the thing that really kills him off results wise for people. There’s getting beat and then there’s getting battered. There’s getting battered at home by Real Madrid ’14 or Chelsea ’05 and getting battered at home by Palace and West Ham. Think it took us going down to 9 men for Kenny to take a walloping at Spurs. Benitez teams getting made a total show of was a rare occurrence (I’m still not convinced that Baptista Arsenal cup game at Anfield really happened.)
Quite probably just speculative bollocks on my behalf, but maybe there’s something in the way Rodgers coaches where being more technical rather than tactical can lead to heavier beatings when heads go? Opposite end of the spectrum to Hodgson really, who set up with a rigid shape and seemed to actively discourage players backing their ability on the ball. Goes back to a conversation about balance again, I suppose.
It helped in the past having Roy of the Rovers to rescue us from those sort of results, but they were always there right back to Houllier’s time. The cannon fodder is no longer that now either as all these teams are getting better players. None of this of course excuses what we witnessed last Saturday.
Ha! ‘Cant’ you see the progress!!’
Rodgers is a fraud who hasn’t a clue about team selections let alone actually buying quality additions,Ilori is now going out on loan instead of that disgrace Lovren.Markovic goes out on loan while dross like Lallana is injury prone and been garbage,he buys Origi Ings and Benteke yet plays one striker at home.
WHEN IS THIS KNIGHTMARE GOING TO END,AND THIS IDIOT GETS THE SACK !!! GET rodgers and his characterless speeches OUT OF ANFIELD NOW.
I’m with you mate but don’t worry, Knightmare ended in 1994. Fucking giant spider pricks
Lol
The shock of Saturday is still resonating as this article rightly points out. And neither Rodgers or the players wanted Saturday’s errors to spoil what had been quite a good set of performances since the start of the season. But I have to ask the question ‘is there too much focus on the manager’.? His role is to motivate and organise the squad of players he has available and get the best individual and collective team performances out of them. The ‘B&W’ thinking criticised in this article is a sign of the fans desperation for success. This desperation has been observable for several seasons as disappointment seems to repeat itself as soon as optimism begins to become a reality.
Watching again the highlights of Saturday it is arguable that the first 2 West Ham goals are quite lucky in the way the ball arrives at the feet of the scorer. The more concerning problem for the manager and coaches is the fact that the team showed little or no ‘mental toughness’ in response to this setback. That is exactly what West Ham showed as the gave no quarter throughout to deserve their success. BR may argue that before the team had a chance to apply remedial tactics Coutinho made another mistake( a repeat of Gerrard’s ill-judgement against MU last season).
What we need to see now though is whether or not BR and the coaches can resurrect the ‘mental toughness’ obvious in the performances at Stoke and Arsenal in the next match. ….and subsequent matches throughout the season. BR comments post game were that they would analyse and feedback to the players and prepare them to win at MU. Van Gaal will probably do the same.
As in many games against MU ‘mental toughness’ is the key to coming out on top. I just found out that we have lost more times to MU than any other team in football history(thanks BBC!!!!!) so what better motivation can there be.
In the book ‘Mental Toughness’ it defines this quality that makes sports professionals in all sports – Winners and Champions. BR is even quoted about his Swansea team’s motivation and mental strength. So he knows what is needed. Do the fans? This article indicates that with a good portion the answer is NO. Or they are not prepared to give the team and manager the chance to develop this.
Liverpool need mental toughness and I believe one man more than any wants to show that. Daniel Sturridge has been through hell with great determination and he and this Liverpool team deserve a chance to show they have it/are developing it. This subject in itself deserves to feature in the TAW podcasts as it is the foundation for these players, coming together in a new formation for the first time. They all deserve time to develop the winning mentality which goes with the mental strength of winning. Confidence and a refusal to be beaten. But it seems that the lack of ‘mental toughness’ is predominantly amongst the fanbase……and in this era of ‘digital expression’ that may never be overcome. It seems to be undermining the spirit of Anfield. Are we the fans……good enough to deserve Winners and Champions. ?Have we the ‘mental toughness’? TAW….discuss!
Daniel Sturridge has been through hell and had someone at the club briefing against him whilst going through that hell. I’ve no idea where the leaks are/were coming from but this kind of behaviour has, sadly, tainted Rodgers’ regime for me. Whether its a consequence of social media or the current regime, I don’t know. I do know that I don’t want to hear any more stories about Sturridge not being mentally tough enough to play through injuries.
The podcast was great by the way.what has annoyed me with Rogers is that he continues to play players out of position and refuses tomdrop players who are playing badly and this stubbornness will get him sacked I think
“the players have no confidence in him”
I know two different people who have friends among the playing staff who claim this is the case.
You need to name them then otherwise you are just making up stories. They did the exact same thing to Rafa.
Sorry, mate. Jose Enrique doesn’t count. Milner, Henderson, Coutinho, Clyne, Gomez, Benteke, Ibe, Ings. All of these players are firmly on board the Rodgers train. You could make a case for the players who aren’t guaranteed game time like Lucas and Sakho, but you could say the same for virtually any manager.
Well,all is not lost yet is it? We’ve got another 34 games to go.
I’ve no idea what the average age of a football supporter is nowadays.My guess would be 25-30,maybe 25-35.Using your binary system it probably means that maybe 25% are under 35 and 25% are over 35.Which would suggest that the majority have grown up with OPTA stats,action replays from all angles and experts on sky rushing to judgement on every result.And if they have knee-jerk reactions why can’t the fans?
This is the modern world.It’s no longer a case of just going to the game and roaring encouragement from the word go like it was in the 60’s,70’s and 80’s.
I thought about this on Saturday.A team scoring against us in the first few minutes in those days would have been met with absolute derision.It would have been a personal insult to the fans and the team.”How dare you! You’ve asked for it now!
But nowadays fans just rub their chins and start discussing who we should have bought and who we should buy next.
I’m not saying any section of fans is wrong.It’s just that the game has changed beyond all recognition from when I started.But so has everything else.
Brendan Rodgers is a victim of sound bites now.But he would be well advised to seek out a course in conducting post-match interviews.Or maybe even take a deep breath before he starts speaking.
He’s got his chance now if we believe stories about the “Transfer Committee” and how he now chooses the players.Either way we’ve got 5 new players in the team.With the best will in the world they would need more than just 4 or 5 games to gel.No matter how much training they do together.And if Coutinho had hit that shot that Firmino nearly scored with he would have been hailed as a genius.
Bit of a ramble I know.But…..it’s early days!
Interesting and valid point. But assuming you meant 75% are under 35, are you referring to those that attend matches? As someone in the older category I would say I fall in the majority group for games at Anfield. This to me is one of the biggest problems we have and it may be off-topic a little here, but your comment touched seems to touch on it too. If we had a more youthful home crowd ( especially the kop and Anfield rid of course) then we would more likely get a bit of that attitude and swagger back. It happens occasionally in league cup games when many of the regulars don’t bother. It’s ironic that that has become the competition that provides our only half-decent atmospheres. For me your point is very, very valid in terms of the way the modern fan operates, but I just think it’s the younger supporters we need in Anfield because the place is almost the complete antithesis of the legend.
Obviously I’m mostly making a different point to you Brian so sorry to jump on your post, just feel very. Strongly about this.
Let me preface this by saying I don’t hate Brendan Rodgers. It isn’t anything personal.
Rodgers, I think, had his development as a coach “jump the shark” by FSG.
I didn’t believe he was ready to coach at a high level Premier League club such as Liverpool when he was first hired. Frankly, I still don’t.
I think FSG gave Rodgers the spending spree this summer to give him enough rope to hang himself with. He’s dangling from a tree right now and turning colors.
He has all of this talent at his disposal but for the life of him can’t utilize it properly or get through to it.
Fair or not, Rodgers doesn’t have a clean slate. We still have nightmares about that 6-1 Stoke game.
Frankly, Liverpool FC has limped through these first four matches and got caught at the worst moment. ..at Anfield.
There hasn’t been a game this season where I felt “we got this.” I liked Firmino’s contributions against Arsenal. He has real potential. I really find it hard not to be mad at Gomez because I recognize he’s still a kid.
Kopp is in the end what LFC want and need. He can work with players and he can school FSG on how to properly execute. That last part Ian Ayre has no prayer of.
Sorry, Brendan. Klopp in, Rodgers out
I was infuriated after the game on Saturday. Partly due to the performance and result but I quickly realised I was disgusted with myself: 4 games into the season, which includes 3 clean sheets and a welcome point away to Arsenal, I want the manager out.
I first thought as much when we lost the cup semi to Villa. It was cemented when we capitulated to Palace in Stevie’s last home game. By the time we lost to Stoke the poor camel’s back had long since broken and it wasn’t by a single straw but an avalanche of shit.
Signing Firmino so quickly got me excited again and I resolved to be as supportive as ever. But deep down I knew one bad result would bring the ill feeling back. I anticipated a 0-0 against West Ham to take the sheen off a good start to the season but in recent months we’ve become a team capable of being thrashed. That never used to be the case.
On top of that we desperately lack creativity in many games. Under Rafa and Kenny (I’ve edited out the intervening months) we would drop points at home because the opposition keeper had the game of his life. On Saturday West ham’s reserve keeper could have grown his cap on our only shot on target. Rafa always used to say we were creating lots of chances therefore the goals would come, it’s when the chances dry up it’s time to worry. That time is now, unfortunately.
The other reason I’m disgusted with myself for saying this is because it strikes me as a sentiment Mike Nevin would object to! And when I listen to him on the podcasts I can’t get enough of his passion for the club and would aspire to be like that if I wasn’t the very definition of an armchair supporting wool!
Doesn’t stop me from wanting the next match to be a win, though. I can’t understand hoping for poor results to see a manager sacked. Sort of contradicts the notion of supporting a football club.
I’ve actually given up with trying to argue for Rogers now. I fully agree with the piece about everything being black or white and no shades of grey anymore. I used the exact same argument about picking the team that played well against Arsenal as you did, I used the same argument about it only being game four, that it’s a new team and they need time – ultimately no-one gives a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut about any of it – if we haven’t won 5-0 then it’s all shite.
Seriously, he’ll never be liked, he’ll never be right, he’ll never be Klopp so I’ve stopped fighting ‘cos, you know, haters gonna hate.
But…
Have you ever seen the film Tin Cup? It’s about a golfer who gets a great chance to qualify for the PGA tour, but due to his own stubbornness he decides to play the final hole, across a lake, about 15 times till he gets it right, but loses, rather than change his tactics, win the round and make the tour.
In many ways it reminds me of Rogers.
He is so often his own worst enemy, and he is stubborn beyond belief. I sometimes feel that he’d rather keep going the way he is and watch it all go to rat shit than admit that a plan has gone a bit wrong and make changes. As if he cannot believe he’s doing anything wrong.
He’s obviously got something about him. You don’t take a team (of, let’s face it the core was 14 players?) to the brink of the title by pure luck, and he worked a minor miracle to start a turnaround last season (until the Mancs) but he perseveres when things are broken for far too long, and it’s that stubborn streak that needs to change. Hopefully the new backroom staff will help with that, because otherwise the season will slowly and irrevocably slip away and another 3-year rebuild will be upon us.
‘The Truth’ it’s gobshites like you that are poisoning the atmosphere at Anfield. Get behind the manager, get behind the team, we’re 4 games in for gods sake!
“Is it not implied that if we make criticisms of the starting line-up, the tactics and the substitutions we are talking about the manager?” What’s wrong with being explicit? Why can’t you say, “Rodgers got that completely wrong”? Why say “we”?
I found the rationale in the article somewhat undercooked. The author suggests that “grey area” folk “feel [they’ve] got to defend [Rodgers] from those determined to attack him.” The implication seemingly being that those determined in their disapproval of Rodgers are incapable of thinking in anything but black and white. The author fails to acknowledge that many fans who adamantly campaign against Rodgers feel forced to do so in the face of the local and national media’s championing of/defending him. So often, Rodgers is portrayed as a very talented manager struggling in the difficult situation of being forced to work with players he doesn’t want.
It’s clear there are some fans that see things in black and white terms. But what this article failed to explore, is that the outrage after the West Ham debacle stemmed from the terrible season prior. A lot of fans are not simply unhappy because we lost a single game badly; it’s because the game represented an indicator that we appear to be going nowhere.
In 2012/13 the results weren’t great, but I think a lot of us could see where the team was heading under Rodgers. The football was good to watch and there appeared to be improvement in the effectiveness of the team – even if that wasn’t reflected in the standings. The Rodgers of today, however, has abandoned his prinicples. There is little fluidity, too often little intensity, too little pride, and too little tactical guile on show. So when some of us see our team struggling to score goals (2 in 4 league games) and getting thumped 3-0 at home by a West Ham team in transition (despite us focusing on the defensive aspect of our game), it is not an anomaly, but rather a symptom that the perceived rot in the club has not been cleaned away.
That this article was posted on TAW is hardly a surprise. It seemingly reflects another possible clash: that between those fans who are explicit about what they see and think, and those who prefer innuendo and implication.
Don’t take such comments as representative of the majority TAW although it may seem so. This team created more chances against Arsenal in the first half than anyone at the Emirates before. Closed eyes and closed minds are now rampant on-line, and the scars of bad results goes too deep for some. Without hope why follow football at all. The wild admiration for Klopp as the saviour is beyond belief. He is just another man trying to motivate and inspire players. If Rodgers is so de-motivating to the players why have 7 put their careers in his hands this summer. It’s a crazy world following the (so called) fans of LFC. Simply amazing….. verging on unreal.
That feels about right. I’m right on the edge at the moment having enjoyed 2012/13 and loved 2013/14. As you say, it was different because there was clearly a positive philosophy at play. Since then LFC seems to be more about politics, squabbles, briefings and innuendo. Anyone who has worked in a large organisation will recognise those particular symptoms and they don’t bode well.
Rodgers is just a zombie now in the Liverpool job. He was gone at the end of last season and FSG have just prolonged his misery, and the fans’ misery.
I’m just surprised he didn’t blame Pascoe and Marsh for the bad defending against West Ham.
The bottom line is, as Adam correctly points out his own observations that the game in the minds of the many have changed and this has been brought about by the Binary pundits and journos who’s job it is to B/W for shear entertainment, or the KW warriors who desperately crave the need to be noticed so their sad little life’s don’t look so futile as they ponder is life really worth living.
As a 49 year old nearing 50 next month my own views and attitudes cling to those attributed to the purist of football fans globally who follow their teams with the unconditional love almost as you adorn to your nearest and dearest, and shame on me for saying it however dare I say even more so. Those purists and eternal optimists amongst us we all suffered dreadfully and collectively on Saurday, however some of us do it in silence or in the Pub or we kick the cat or the dog. Whatever! We shouldn’t be hanging our dirty washing in public which only makes us look a laughing stock. Binary thinking as I said earlier is for others who in the main have no real loving connection to a football club and here lies the problem. When do Fans and the clue is in the bed to be ‘FANATICAL’ stop being fans and instead begin the thinking they are Journos or pundits so FFS stop thinking Binary and do what you spend your hard earned cash to do and be a Fan and support your team and show them that unconditional love that comes with the joy the sadness the heartache the pain, but ultimately the sense of being for as we all know without a sense of being what is the meaning life?
Another thing is true in life self prophecy tends to become a reality sooner or later and whether we believe our club is all washed up and living in the passed or we are still a sleeping giant, your opinion is probably true.
“There does now seem to be a rush to judgment after each and every game and that judgment is based on binary thinking.”
You don’t seem to have factored in the crushing burden of disappointment, over the course of years, that eventually leads one party in a relationship to view the other through a black and white lens. The pundits and the fans haven’t rushed to judgment of Rodgers nor are they basing it on a few games. He’s in his fourth year now. That’s more than enough time for views to solidify and judgments made. The consensus seems to be negative, at the moment, but the good news for him is, he still has time and is surrounded by good players. He can still do something, a tilt at a CL spot or a good cup run, even though he may be in the “last stand” period of his management. Boldness and character always make for good rearguard actions. And that’s what he’s fighting now.
I echo the “grey areas” comment. Going on twitter after the WH game and the personal abuse directed towards Rodgers is pure spitefulness and seems like these (so-called) fans are hoping LFC lose so they can pile in. I’m not a Rodgers supporter but the vitriol directed against him is shocking – we might all claim to bee Liverpool supporters but I want nothing to do with them. Even at the fag end of Benitez and Houllier, I wasn’t outraged by them personally (and Benitez was just as irritating in his public comments as Rodgers is for his boring, tetchy answers – “cloob” and “fax) but thought it was time they left because the football was so dire to watch. As for Rodgers, I’m on the fence – the second half of 13-14 was so joyous (and not just the success but also the style) that I’m giving him this year to see if something similar can be recreated. But I have my doubts that the job is too big for him and that he’s lost something since then. I do also question his tactical nous at times as well – the Arsenal game showed some but the WH game was inept > even I knew what their game plan would be. There are mitigating factors of course but, as others have pointed out, this has happened too many times before to count it as a one-off.
The thing I don’t get though is the campaign for Klopp – he’s being presented as some kind of messiah-like figure who will save Liverpool. Have people looked at how Dortmund did last year and then seen how they are doing this year – new manager, much better results. I’m not against Klopp and he has obviously achieved success but I’d be concerned that, unless his sabbatical has allowed to develop his tactical approach, his preferred style of play may have had its moment in the sun. This is nothing to say of adapting the Premier League and a whole host of other factors. But then raising such points is further heresy to the anti-Rodgers brigade because Klopp is part of their black-and-whiteness. You’re either with us or against us. I wish they’d just feck off.
So you didnt mind fellow supporters calling the manager of the club you support a “Fat Spanish Waiter” and you got annoyed by his accent?
Agree totally with finding the “get Klopp in and he will make every thing roses” sentiment incredibly shallow. He may develop a good team but my gut is saying that he has had his moment and we would end up being worse than we are currently under Rodgers. Really pisses me off how many fans just cry out for managers and players with big names regardless of whether they are on the way down or not.
Klopp is still young, took an unfancied team to 2 BL championships and the final of the CL. Brendan Rodgers has won nowt. It’s perfectly reasonable to make a good case for Brendan but please, let’s not pretend he’s in the same league as Klopp: he isn’t.
I don’t believe Klopp is a messiah either but you kind of failed to raise the fact that Klopp had all the same problems Rodgers had and more. We one undoubted starter on the sick note, they had five, we’ve lost a key player to transfers, they’ve lost key players to transfers. The same way we must give Rodgers credit for fixing his problems, you have to give Klopp proportional credit for fixing obviously bigger problems while not embarrassing the club at European level and also getting to a domestic cup final. Let us not pretend that Rodgers and Klopp are on the same level. Klopp would not be a messiah. Klopp would be a pretty big “upgrade”. Thats just a fact. Nothing more/less.
Good article btw. I agree with the binary analogy; it is one of the morbid symptoms of our entitled, digital age I’m afraid.
Unlike my earlier post and getting back to the spherical thing on the pitch for a minute, BR’s tactical gameplans prior to WH where in my eyes considering the primary stage of the season more than acceptable and by the Arsenal game the evidence was there for all to see that we were ramping up the tempo the style and the Sun was clearly rising on the Horizon for a beautiful beginning of a new season. The gameplans to stick with the same formation and personnel barring injury prematurely came to an end and changes were forced and we suffere against WH mainly due to Hendo’s absence and it needs to be said that regardless of the opposition, when at home we play 2 proper forwards to distract their defence and create space for our enterprising midfielders. Now my only doubt is, other than putting this performance down to a bad day at the office, is Firminho ready to play off Benteke or should we have started the game with Ings? Moreno is like a young untrained pup you can’t trust to let of the leash in fear of it running out of control and causing a car crash. Therefore the question as to who fills in at left back at home, because clearly now we’ve learned in hind sight that young Gomez as good as he is defensively is at this stage of his career fairly limited when it turned out misguidedly so he was expected to play on the front foot when helping the team going forward. And great credit must be given to Bilic and his team for isolating Gimez as that weak attacking point in the team as WH were clearly funnelling the play towards Gomez and the forcing him to either play the ball back or sideways and not allowing him to feed Coutinho and for me it was clear that BR neede to quickly make the change and it should have occurred immediately in the 1st half after about 20 minutes. It was that abundantly clear. Then after the calamitous defending and sending off it was similarly as clear that Saturday was not going to be our day and with the Stars in WH’s alignment having not won at our place for 52 years none of us needed to be Mystic Meg to foresee the outcome. I’m certainly happy to put it down to a 1 off and I’ve not even mentioned the 9/40 or so winning home games so far.
How bizarre is that! The bookies won’t be able to believe their good fortune.
Just because you’ve passed through a boolean logic gate, don’t kid yourself that your processes are any less binary than those you decry.
Why are the Anfield wrap and everyone associated with it, frightened of criticising Rodgers and always have to defend him
Vary strange
The season ids 4 games old and we should change our manager? 4 GAMES !!! God I hate SKY
You say there are five new addition to the squad and last year there was so many new addictions. Isn’t it the managers fault that he has so many new faces every year in the first 11?
Dude! What the hell are you talking about?
Yes, the team has new players but whose fault is that? Every season Rodgers spends excess of 70 million and yet, the performances hasn’t been that of a top four club! If he was in his first season, with 7 new first team players, it’d have been forgiven. That guy was given 3 seasons to rebuild a Liverpool side that can finish as a top four side. And may I ask, what has he done so far?
Rodgers is tactically weak, makes a mess of the transfer money and what else! This is Liverpool FC, not some relegation threatend team!
And your point about that world class defensive performance and two wins this season was absolutely rubbish. We won the two games only because of sheer luck! Bournemouth scored but was disallowed, Benteke was offside and Arsenal disallowed. So, from which point did you see a heroic performance?
I am in the camp who thought Rodgers should have got the sack after the shocking 6-1 defeat to Stoke last season so it’s sad to say that the 3-0 loss to West Ham didn’t surprise me at all. Before the game when I was asked about the game I said that I had a feeling Liverpool would slip up as these are the kind of games last season that we would slip up. The fact that Lovren is in defence also had something to do with me thinking we may get beat. Lovren was awful last season to the point that he got dropped and replaced with Sakho who performed much better so how Lovren gets picked ahead of Sakho is beyond me. I can understand that maybe attacking wise we may not be good enough yet because we have quite a few new players to bed in so I understand that might take time but that’s not what I have a problem with. My main problem with Rodgers is his stubbornness with him insisting on picking Lovren even though it’s clear that Sakho is a better defender and also his awful record in the transfer market. The amount of money that is wasted from buying players and then hardly playing them and then sending them out on loan or selling them is unbelievable. I know that some transfers don’t always work but under Rodgers the majority of transfers don’t seem to work. Why on earth spend £20 million on Markovic and then hardly ever play him and whenever he is played it’s out of position. Now he’s been shipped out on loan for a season when we need him if we want to compete in all competitions. Why spend over £7 million on Tiago Ilori and then never play him and keep shipping him out on loan. He’s about 22 or 23 so again this doesn’t make any sense. I can talk all day about all the players we buy and hardly ever play. Aspas was never given a chance, Alberto hardly ever played,Sahin didn’t get a chance, Samed Yesil, Ousamma Assaidi, Rickie Lambert, Mario Balotelli, Javier Manquillo, Fabio Borini. Now it looks like Divick Origi and Danny Ings are following a similar path. I really want to see Rodgers succeed but I’m afraid I just can’t see it happening and this is only going to end one way. It’s a shame the owners don’t seem to be able to see this inevitable outcome.
I unplugged my Twitter and Disqus accounts because it felt like I was navigating through an episode of the Walking Dead. Far too many echoes of the build up to the Iraq invasion (loudmouth binary-logic bullies rounding on anyone looking for a bit of perspective and context).
We have Sturridge on the mend while Benteke and Firmino are developing an understanding with their teammates. When you look at the crazy stats around Sturridge (under Brendan Rodgers, mind) and put that together with Benteke, Firmino, and Coutinho, we have tremendous potential in attack. Add the energy/stability of Milner and Henderson, and we could really click.
Yes, the defeat was depressingly familiar, but otherwise the season has been one of a steadily upward trajectory. Considering all the tough away sides to come, I don’t mind Rodgers working on getting a solid foundation from which to counterattack. Basically, until Man City, that seems the way forward. And by the time we play Man City, with a bit of luck, Sturridge and Benteke will have developed a real relationship on the pitch as we go into a long run of winnable games.
If we get to Man City in anything like our current table position, we should be placed very well for a CL spot. With Rodgers at the helm.
Man United under the “proven” have yet to impress, and they could very well be in for an underwhelming season. Arsenal just need for Giroud or Sanchez to take a knock and they suddenly seem quite vulnerable. And I wouldn’t put it past Chelsea to do well with their surprisingly thin squad, but Mourinho doesn’t do 3rd seasons well (and threw away the title in 13/14, which everyone forgets) and Terry seems to have turned a corner.
Take a deep breath, folks. Things are far from settled. Remember that YNWA is more than just a four-letter acronym.
Sorry pal. Did you just refer Hull City as ‘The Tigers’?
#youretheproblem
I don’t comment often on this site, but I listen to most of the post-match podcasts and I felt I had to intervene here.
It’s fair to complain about people who take a binary view of football games and don’t do nuance but, that said, some of the contributors to the podcast can’t be exempt from that criticism either. The West Ham pod was naturally all doom and gloom, but what about the ecstatic reaction to the Arsenal game or the raptures about ‘gnarly’ 1 goal wins at Stoke and against Bournemouth?
If you’d take a step back for a moment, weren’t all the issues that surfaced against West Ham there to be seen in the 3 previous games and before that as well? The notion that the team had transformed over the summer, which the panel embraced which such enthusiasm last week, was pretty silly.
The Bournemouth win, objectively, was an especially poor performance, which Liverpool got away with because we were playing bad opposition. All the problems with supporting Benteke, looking vulnerable at the back, failing to dominate convincingly in midfield etc. were there with bells on.
During the summer, there were a lot of rhapsodies about the merits of getting ‘business done quickly’, but it never looked that the signings were addressing the major structural problems in the team. No experienced centre-back came in, no left-back, no improvement at goalkeeper / serious competition for Mignolet, no defensive midfielder. Fair enough – one decent centre forward, an international midfielder and a right back.
But did we really need another Brazilian number 10, as a pressing priority, if you look at it completely dispassionately? And how many tricksy playmakers stroke attacking midfielders stroke wingers can one squad handle? Is it any wonder the line-up looks unbalanced?
Actually, the Anfield Wrap covered this quite well in the last pod, but the attitude was pretty grim toward anyone who was less than ecstatic about our prospects prior to the West Ham defeat. Yep, it’s good to be positive, but seeing the big picture cuts both ways (and, to be fair, not all the contributors are as bad as Neil Atkinson, the main offender in this regard).
Decent analysis surely has to be more than whinging at a loss and turning summersaults at a win. I mean, the way you guys examine every nuance, you’d think you’d to less turning on a sixpence between one week and the next. Take a step back occasionally, show a bit more consistency and don’t turn a blind eye to longstanding problems.
Without wanting to slate the manager I still have doubts about what he has done this summer that haven’t yet been answered positively in the first 4 games.
Did he evaluate carefully how he wants Liverpool to play and buy what he needs to realise that vision, or were the transfer dealings dictated more by availability? What is the point of buying players who might be very similar or no better than what you’ve already got, especially if they’re not going to get a chance to prove otherwise? Should the manager not have had clearer priorities, when it came to filling problem positions? Even more fundamentally, how does he want Liverpool to play and in what formation?