BRENDAN RODGERS received some unlikely backing from commentator John Motson. Motty, speaking on BBC Radio 5 Live, revealed that he thinks there is a ‘conspiracy’ against the Liverpool manager and that some in the media have an ‘agenda’ against him.
I’m not sure that is quite true. I think if you have a load of bad results, then the pressure builds, whether ‘the media’ are talking about it or not. But it’s interesting that he went on to talk about how Liverpool nearly won the league under Rodgers, a title challenge built on 26 league wins — a figure never bettered in the 25 years since the Reds last won the league.
I think what Motty seems to be suggesting is that Brendan Rodgers is quite a good football manager. Which, of course, he is.
I find myself defending Brendan Rodgers a surprising amount in public, considering I spend so much time in my head moaning about the things he does as Liverpool manager. This isn’t just with people who would rather moan about teeth than tactics, or with people who hilariously want to give him a woman’s name (because you know, female = incompetence), it’s largely with people who don’t want to give him any credit, or praise, whatsoever. People who see it as black and white. When it comes to management, you’re either good or you’re shite, right?
I don’t think he is a bad manager. Largely because I don’t think any of them are. In the same way I don’t think there are any bad footballers in the Premier League. You, of course, get players who fancy becoming managers who aren’t suitable for it. They generally get found out pretty quickly. Football clubs are unforgiving work places, football grounds even more so. All these group of Premier League managers have generally done well somewhere and then done well somewhere else and then got promoted to manage a Premier League club. They have proved that, in a specific set of circumstances at least, they know what they are doing.
I think it is really hard to compare the abilities of managers, like you do with footballers. They’re either mostly good or mostly good blaggers. I’m fine with either to be honest, as long as we can stop debating it. I don’t want to argue about whether Rodgers is any good any more, because it’s boring and irrelevant. The question shouldn’t be whether he is a good manager. The question should be whether, right now, he is the best manager for Liverpool Football Club.
If we can accept that they are all mostly good, with different strengths, weaknesses and suitability, then we can free our minds to discuss what exactly we want from a football manager — and who out there is the most likely to deliver it. Football fans rarely seem to think like this. For us there is a league table of football managers and you should go out and get the best one you can, regardless of the relevance of their achievements, or failures, in the game. Regardless of whether what you are trying do matches their experiences, good or bad.
As fans we get obsessed with what is deemed fair or deserved. We focus more on what someone has done in the past with what they are likely to do in the future. Football clubs themselves do occasionally buck this trend. In the summer Hull City were relegated, despite investing pretty heavily in a squad that looked pretty talented. Nine times out of ten this would lead to the manager being sacked, if he hadn’t been already. This sacking would be seen as ‘deserved’. The Hull chairman decided that a disappointing season didn’t necessarily mean that Steve Bruce wasn’t the best man to lead them back to the Premier League, and kept him on. They currently look a decent bet to return to the top flight.
Another was at Southampton. There was general uproar when they replaced Nigel Adkins with Mauricio Pochettino after the former had led them to back-to-back promotions to the Premier League. Southampton focused not on what was fair on a man who had achieved so much, but on who was the best manager to take them to where they wanted to be.
Aims and objectives at the football club changed, and a different manager was deemed more suitable. Southampton excelled under Pochettino, while Adkins is currently managing Sheffield United back in League One.
READ: Answering the big Brendan questions — part one
READ: Answering the big Brendan questions — part two
READ: Answering the big Brendan questions — part three
I’m always surprised that no one bats an eyelid when a football club replaces half the playing squad when they go up to the Premier League, yet it is seemingly unthinkable that they will replace their manager.
Some football managers, Neil Warnock for example, are particularly good at getting a club promoted, but not particularly good at keeping them there. Yet they will always be given an opportunity to do so. And yet this is possibly the best time to appoint a new manager — the stock of the club is high and a manager gets a full pre-season and a summer transfer window to impose their system and beliefs, yet clubs would rather wait until they are struggling in December to replace a manager at a worse time because of what is deemed fair and deserved.
Football clubs should constantly assess what they want to achieve, how they think they can achieve it, and whether the current manager of the football club is the most likely person to get them there. This should be informed by the relevant history of a manager, of course, but also what they are likely to do in the future. Their mindset, vision and beliefs. Otherwise, there would be no new managers. No Guardiola. No Dalglish.
I’ve been guilty of thinking in an opposite way myself. In 2010 I marched against the dismissal of Rafa Benitez. I thought it was a disgrace that the crooks running my football club thought they could sack a manager who had wontThe European Cup.
I thought it was sickening that a manager who had given everything to Liverpool, who had battled with owners and fought for the fans, could be cast aside after one indifferent season. I thought Rafa was the best manager we could get, and I still think I was right. But best in what context?
Was I thinking about who was best in terms of achievements or best to lead us into the 2010-11 season? They aren’t necessarily the same person.
Which leads us to now. I now longer care whether Brendan Rodgers was ready to manage Liverpool in 2012, I only care who is the most ready now. I don’t care if he nearly won the league in 2013-14, only if he is the most likely to win it in 2015-16. I don’t care if he got beat 6-1 at Stoke, only which manager is the most likely to ensure nothing like that happens again.
Is that man Brendan Rodgers? That’s the debate I hope they are having at FSG right now. Forget everything else. Regarding the manager, it’s the only debate that matters.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
Exceptionally well said. Thank you.
Good read that John.
I am not one to advocate a change of manager after a sequence of bad results or a bad season but how long do you give a manager before making a judgement ?
I think the problem we have as a fan base is that maybe we are unique in our deep emotional attachment to our managers possibly more than towards our players.
I think maybe its the Shankly factor where we are always looking for that kind of inspirational almost mythical figure in our managers and possibly not everyone can carry that level of expectation and hope .
I am a perfect example of that type of fan where even though Fowler ,Mcmanaman, Toress, Alonso and all the other great players we have had were heroes to me my appreciation and effection for Rafa made him the bigger hero. I think Brendans a good coach and he has done the best he possibly can but I think this job requires a very special manager and only a select few are that special to actually make it here and cope with the emotional baggage that comes with it.
really excellent thought process and well expressed. you are absolutely right, the only debate relevant for now.
i dont have the answer.
but if BR goea, i would rate King Kenny Reincarnation Team (StevieG and Carra team) to be in charge. this team would get the best fans support. Will they make us winbthe league in 2015/16? probably not, but we will get 100% from this Team, and players and fans alike will respect them 100%!!
John,I do like your stuff.It always makes me think.Some of the managers you mention have often made me think too.Like how did they get there in the first place?
It sometimes looks like the XFactor.You know one good song and you go to boot camp then get binned.
But Brendan? Well,he’s been very unlucky.
He was unlucky when Suarez Sterling and Gerrard left.
He was unlucky when a lot of his signings didn’t live up to their transfers fees.
He was unlucky when when Lovren didn’t live up to his expectations.
He was unlucky when Joe Allen got injured.
He was unlucky not to realise that Mignolet can’t deal with crosses.
He was unlucky not to realise that opposing managers are now on page 10 while he’s still re-reading page 5 of the coaching manual.
He was unlucky to be saddled with a transfer committee where he had no input (despite saying that he had the final say!
He’s been unlucky to play against teams playing the best football in their history against us.
He’s just been unlucky.
But to paraphrase Napoleon “Just give me a lucky bugger any day of the week”
Mind you he was lucky to get this gig!
On a final note there seems to be a lot of hedging bets around here just now.We don’t want us to fail and despite the unmistakable sounds of colours being nailed to a mast I get the feeling that we would still like some kind of redemption for Rodgers.
The options and outcomes are too horrifying to contemplate.
Everyone looks at it differently.
I feel much the same as I did in the summer or after Stoke. If Rodgers carries on, which he undoubtedly will for the foreseeable, then I can still get behind him. I always felt I wanted him to succeed, regardless of the by product of that meaning us doing well, but a new manager is always exciting, in the same way buying a new pair of trainers can be. I feel like I need a lift. Obviously, I have a hope Klopp could get us into the CL places, at least, but truth is, I know next to nothing about what kind of manager he is. I’ve no idea of his achievements and couldn’t even tell you if he’s won a cup or not. It’s not really about that for me. I’ve seen some clips of him talking where it’s struck me he could steer a ship. I feel that’s what I’m looking for. I’m trying to put my finger on what exactly I mean and when I look at Rafa, Fergie and to risk scorn, Mourinho, I see strong characters. That’s what’s missing at the minute for me. I also think it’s important the fans feel united. Klopp would do that for a while. I was late on the Klopp bandwagon for practical reasons and still strongly doubt whether it would ever happen but if we finished in the same place under him than the same place under Rodgers I have this vision that I’ll be far far happier.
I don’t feel good about casting Rodgers aside, far from it but in my mind I always picture an incident with my twin sister at work. A lad had been taking the piss with his attendance and lateness. He’d had a warning then one time when I was visiting he’d come in a few hours late. My sister sacked him there and then and bizarrely he started crying and pleading. She stood firm and after about 5 mins I said, come on, give him another chance, this is tight. She gave me one hell of a look for getting involved and said no, he can fuck off. That was probably 20 years ago and whereas as I’m broke she can spend £100k on a car. You see, she’s ruthless, cold and single minded. It’s an appalling way to be but it often brings success. Worrying about someones feelings, like I have with Rodgers, leads to just plodding along. Truth is, if I could go back 20 years, with hindsight, I’d say ‘just get ya coat and leave ya lazy, scruffy bastard’. I wanna be ruthless, cold and single minded. Just to sum up. Talk with Klopp. If he’s willing then sack Rodgers the next day if he’s not then keep looking. If it takes 6 months then so be it, I’ll be behind Rodgers but the minute a better candidate in any form becomes available give him the job. The only requirement is he must be strong, have leadership qualities but modest. The rest will look after itself.
But when is now, is it this week next week.
I see little point in removing Rogers give him the season, get behind him.
The media thrives on our negative reactions to our manager.
Rodger’s exceeded expectations in his second season by challenging for the title. The fans have been given a taste of what its like to be challenging for the title and want more by any means necessary, even if that means casting aside our current manager. When I hear people say we should be challenging for the title this season, is that based on the last decade or even 20 years? No. It’s purely based on the recent title challenge under Rodger’s.
Then in comes the “it was Suarez not Rodgers” crowd, you could say that about any manager. The opinion is van Persie won the league for Ferguson, Aguero won the league for Manchini, does that make those managers not any good? It’s irrelevant, the fact is Rodger’s was able to identify Suarez as our main Striker. Kenny was still trying to make Carroll the main striker due to his high price tag when Rodger’s came in.
I get the impression there are a few hard core fans who still have issues with Rodger’s getting the job over Kenny, even though Kenny’s last season wasn’t great. I was one of the people who wanted Kenny to continue even though he finished 8th, this is purely because Kenny is Kenny. Not because he was the best option going forward. Rodger’s was the one who brought Kenny back into the club.
Did Benitez win the Champions League or did he make the most of the squad provided to him by Houllier? In my opinion the best manager Liverpool have had in the last 20 years was Houllier. Benitez won some things but he only challenged for the title once, sure he made the top 4 but as soon as Man City came along that was no longer the case.
Rodger’s deserves to be given more time, he came in when that club had no money at all. He made the most of a team light on numbers but with great leaders. Would we have won the league if Carragher had stayed on for another season? I’d say he could of helped us and I think he regrets doing it now.
The people pushing for a new manager know by Xmas Rodger’s will have sorted out the problems and get us playing well again, they see this as their only chance to make a change for their own purposes. The key to the next couple of season’s is to try and keep the team together without having to rebuild. It’s the reason we did so well in 2013-14.
spot on. Brendan is a victim of his own success, much in the same way that Rafa was.
Unless we are willing to back any new a manger with the vast sums of money the likes of Chelsea and City throw into the market, we are best to try and build the squad and grow together as a football club.
Fully agreed, Russell. my earlier suggestion abt Stevie/Carra team is for the unlikely event that BR leaves.
the best option for current scenerio is to give 100% backing to BR and the team. FSG should even make some public statement ir gesture that they are in full support of BR Mk 2 instead of staying quiet in the background and making press and bookies have a field day, thus unsettling the players and make nay sayers excited.
we fans should tone down on BR and just suooort the team fully. thats what fans are for, isnt it.
our team is nearly complete. we just need to bring in one or two key olayers going forward. we dont need to overhaul the team every transfer window anymore.
i am confident that we can win the league in the next 2 seasons with BR and some twitching. We may not win like Real and Barca did year in yesr out. But this group can win like Atlatico Madrid under Simone, Valencia under Rafa, and Dortmont under Klopp did.
It seems from that, and the replies, some Liverpool fans are comfortable with mediocrity.
They don’t want all that competitiveness. Leave that to the rich kids – City and Chelsea.
Just a trip down the match and a pint with lads after eh?
Dear god!
“Which leads us to now. I no longer care whether Brendan Rodgers was ready to manage Liverpool in 2012, I only care who is the most ready now. I don’t care if he nearly won the league in 2013-14, only if he is the most likely to win it in 2015-16.”
Yeah wanting a manager who is most likely to win the league, whoever that may be, is ded mediocre.
“Just a trip down the match and a pint with lads after eh?”
Soz abar people going to the match to have a good time.
Exactly, you’re currently having a good time?
I have a great time. Go and have a sing, slag off the ref and the opposition. Not to mention getting on the ale before and after. If I wasn’t enjoying it I wouldn’t go. I’d offer the same advice to anyone – if you’re not having a good time at the match then don’t go.
“Just a trip down the match and a pint after”
How I fucking wish.
Those were the days my friend..
‘I now longer care whether Brendan Rodgers was ready to manage Liverpool in 2012, I only care who is the most ready now. I don’t care if he nearly won the league in 2013-14, only if he is the most likely to win it in 2015-16. I don’t care if he got beat 6-1 at Stoke, only which manager is the most likely to ensure nothing like that happens again.’
Spot on. Except the Stoke bit. Because that’s close enough to frame the current debate. I was thinking along the same terms myself, the same phrase about short, long and right came to mind. I fear he isn’t, but had he learned on the job I’d be happy, instead, the weight of the suit seems to be eating away at him and that’s very, very bad for the team.
Far from a media agenda the media love him.Who would they get to fill column inches with drivel if he left? Who would supply the pseudo Shankyism or the half cocked soundbite?
We’re a few games into a new season and already we’ve used 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-1-4-1, 3-4-2-1 & 3-4-1-2. That does not strike me as the actions of a confident manager who knows his players and how to get the best outta them. That’s incredibly worrying. He’s just spent 10s of millions in the summer on, by all accounts, his own choice of player and yet he can’t find one or 2 formations that suit them. How many other top managers do you know that flip and flop formations constantly? It’s bizzarre!
Everyone believes it’s just a matter of time now before he goes, that air of inevitability hangs thick. If Klopp, or someone of his ilk, is willing to come then bring him in tomorrow but if there’s not then the search must continue for someone better than what we’ve got.
Good article John, this part I find most intresting
‘I thought Rafa was the best manager we could get, and I still think I was right. But best in what context?
Was I thinking about who was best in terms of achievements or best to lead us into the 2010-11 season? They aren’t necessarily the same person.’
The role of the Liverpool manager needs to be put into context because I think depending on your age depends on how you see the role of the manager, or what you want a manager to be. The flag in the article that depicts all our great managers in one image conveys what a Liverpool manager should be to someone of my generation (45 yrs). Strong, Iconic, the leader of the club, ruthless to the point that one mistake by a player and they are bombed out, in the same way a player is forgiven if they give their all, a manager of Liverpool has to act like a Liverpool manager and the owners are their to sign the cheques. A Liverpool manager knows how to batter a team at home and defend away in Europe and he knows what his main formation is and buys players for that system. I accept this is an old school view, but it is the one I have, and when i look back at the managers over the past 25 years the one thing that stands out is that Rafa is the only manager that was ruthless with the players like managers of old, but unlike managers of the past Rafa never had the full support of the ownership and therefore his authority was undermined.
In many ways each Liverpool manager since Souness has been undermined by the ownership. Roy Evans may have needed more coaches because the boot room was getting thin on the ground but instead of getting a new coach he got Houllier. Houllier himself was into the 6 th year of a 5 year plan but instead of being able to play both Cisse and Owen up front he had to wait for Cisse and ultimatley they never played together. Rafa had H&G plus Purslow and Broughton and the trigger was pulled on Kenny after one full season a trophy and a cup final. We will never know what Kennys plans were the following year but you would have thought he knew which players needed to go and he would have done it. Brendon has been left high and dry two seasons out of three with no strikers and while fans look at players and managers what about the owners? Since John Smith Liverpool have had 3 sets of crap owners, neither David Moores, H&G or FSG have had a plan for Liverpool in the way the owners of Man United, City and Chelsea have had a plan. Moores heart was in the right place but he let things drift and since FSG came along they have been determined to do things their way which is a director of football / collective that undermines the manager and is the opposite of the way the club was run in the glory days, and as long as FSG have the idea that you can go out and buy a load of young Boss players with loads of potential and that a flexible manager can get them to perform, it makes little difference whom the manager is because a top manager is going to want more say and more players for today and not for sometime in the near future that are then sold to bigger clubs (sic).
Well said. Really enjoyed that article.
If every player and manager is ‘good’, what does ‘good’ mean any more? My problem with BR is he’s lost his way. First season was slow, patient possession football. It wasn’t great but at least I knew his plan. It was clear from Swansea what a BR team and plan was. Season 2 changed to speedy counter attacking but I think that’s where he started to lose his way. He couldn’t stop tinkering (Gerrard in quarterback role and such). It’s just that it worked. We were amazing. Alas seasons 3 and 4 have been poor and BR has still to find his way back to a ‘philosophy’. He doesn’t know how he wants his sides to play any more. He’s terrible in Europe. He’s bang average in the cup competitions. His sides can’t defend and now they don’t score. I agree he’s not a bad person. But he’s drowning.
I can understand an argument for Rodgers staying and I can understand one for him going . Based on three years not 5 games.
Despite the volume of player transaction Rodgers/FSG has only spent approx 11m net.
Maybe FSG sounded out replacements in the summer but none wanted the job then (6mths off)
2 new coaches and a coach promotion.
So I don’t think in the above terms it was a huge risk or gamble for FSG to carry on and hope things turn round. 6 , 12 games or until Christmas .
The current link to ancelotti if true is not the FSG / Rogers model. That would be a strategic change from youth development. Klopps style seems closer to the FSG model and maybe there holding out for him.
But I don’t see the point in change for change sake. There needs to be a plan.
Rogers had his team worked out sharpish 2 seasons ago to devastating effect and since then he has had lots of incredibly bad luck with key players leaving and regularly being injured, now it’s Hendersons turn with a lengthy spell on the sidelines. are we to believe the reason for Sakho’s absence is he hasn’t quite been dight and available and that’s why Lovren’s been getting a game, or have I got that wrong? As it looks like Allen is about to return Henderson gets crocked which has been leaving us thin at CM, and is maybe why Milner has struggled as his and Lucas’s style aren’t really complimentary.
The only strip I would really peel of Rogers is I can’t help thinking that he’s scored an Ogg as both Markovic and Llori could have had big parts to play this season in the Cup side which would have been ideal prep to blood them for the league next season. It’s a shame
Managers have to deal with injuries, they can’t be used as an excuse.
Rodgers is a momentum coach. Someone who is good at catching the best wave and surfing it really well.
There are poker players who are similar. Hopeless when card-dead, they make the most of any rush where they keep picking-up hands.
Other players don’t handle rushes so well, yet are still able to make money with poor holdings by correctly interpreting the action and selectively choosing when to bluff and steal. Rodgers is not one of these players.
John is right about getting rid of managers who have just got their side promoted. It is often the most rational thing to do. With hindsight, replacing Rodgers the moment Suarez had left for Barcelona would have been the correct choice.
the 2014-2015 season was always going to require a coach who was able to consolidate. Obviously, we didn’t know enough about Rodgers to have done this and sacking him would have caused a riot anyway. It’s easy to forget how highly we rated him, just over a year ago.
The fact that Rodgers didn’t jump ship does suggest a certain lack of self-awareness, on his part. If anyone could have known that he was a momentum coach, at that time, it was him.
He could have told FSG that he was off if Suarez was allowed to leave. A very big club, one that hadn’t just experienced such a drastic reverse with regards to human resources, would have come knocking soon enough.
How he must regret not being able to see how the land lied, in the summer of 2014. I doubt leaving even crossed his mind though and would imagine that he still sees himself as a man for all seasons, despite what has happened.
Objectivity is often the first casualty of flattery.
Support from motty but absolute drivel from claridge afterwards which “manc” chapman allows unchallenged as usual, hence you get general media speculating about lfc with half baked rubbish. Talkshite was the same tonight. Thank god for taw player