“Each team I see (that is successful) has to be comfortable playing with three systems. They need to adapt to each game, depending on the circumstances. It is not about not being loyal to your identity. No, no, no. It is about knowing your strengths and showing your players what you need to do each game to prepare in the right way.
“In Liverpool, we had a plan for each team. Every game is totally different. Let me give you an example. This season we have played with three defenders, sometimes four, sometimes five. You need to be able to manage at least three or four systems. It has nothing to do with betraying your principles.” — Xabi Alonso.
——
EVEN in victory, it seems Brendan Rodgers simply cannot win with some fans.
With two out of two and a big fat zero in the goals against column, you would be forgiven for thinking that the Liverpool manager might get a day or two off from getting slaughtered online.
As. Fucking. If.
The forever drifting nomadic goalposts of judgement have shifted yet again, with Rodgers now taking pelters for a perceived substance over style approach, a turnaround that would make Fabian Delph blush given previous criticisms from the Twitter hive.
Having supposedly consigned tiki-taka to the sea, Rodgers is now committing the cardinal sin of betraying the principles and power point presentations that convinced John Henry and co to appoint the Northern Irishman in the first place.
For some, clearly, whatever Rodgers does will never be good enough and that he seemingly has more than one string to his bow is being spun as a negative trait.
Now the facts: five new players, two new coaches, two positive results and, despite a couple of nervy moments, two clean sheets. A good start then, especially in the context of having to exorcise the demon that was Stoke.
That Rodgers is still the Liverpool manager rankles with some, and the lingering anger and ugly bitterness that he evokes in his detractors does not take much provoking to be brought to the surface. At least, on the bright side, it makes a refreshing change from snide comments about his private life.
Of course performances matter, but since the dawn of time results have always trumped percentages and opening fixtures are always tricky affairs (aren’t they Jose, Arsene?). Teams don’t tend to go from getting smashed to bits 6-1 by Stoke and being absolutely on the floor to playing like Brazil 1970 in the space of three fixtures, it just doesn’t work like that, especially when some of the squad have barely had time to find out their new team-mates names.
Good performances are borne out of the confidence of good results; that and making the most out of what you have.
Christian Benteke isn’t a Luis Suarez or a Daniel Sturridge, nor is he just a blunt instrument up front. But while the rest of the squad are getting used to him (and vice versa) pragmatism shouldn’t be sneered at. And, until Sturridge is back to form a potentially devastating partnership, nor should it be a dirty word.
What Brendan has done in the last two fixtures is prepared a team that gave Liverpool a good chance of getting a positive result — and it’s worked.
Does anyone really believe that in an ideal world the manager wouldn’t want us to turn in the type of performances that saw us rip teams to bits as we’ve done in the past during his time in charge? Which leads to a interesting parallel — the 13-14 team that smashed all before it.
Only, it didn’t — not initially anyway.
Liverpool didn’t wake up one morning, have their Ready brek and a sly line and magically transform into a hybrid of Liverpool 87-88 and the Harlem Globetrotters.
Instead, the season started with three consecutive, hard fought, ground out 1-0 victories.
Over the course of those three games we survived some scares and missteps — a Mignolet penalty save sparing us from a home draw against Stoke, and a rearguard action just about keeping Villa at bay after a bit of Sturridge magic away from home.
The much-missed Sturridge repeated the trick a week later to secure victory over a David Moyes-led (remember him?) Manchester United at Anfield.
Three games, small margins — nine points. Last season it probably would have been three at best. Such is life, such is football.
The truth is that it took until mid-December, 12 games, and a 5-0 demolition of Spurs for Liverpool to really get into beast mode — a game in which Jon Flanagan scored the greatest goal ever.
Having dispatched Spurs with such devastating aplomb, Liverpool were, for the most part of the rest of that season, absolutely breathtaking, but they launched their assault from a platform built on steady planning — a few aberrations aside (HULL AWAY, COUGH). Yet memories are often moulded to suit.
I always think back to the sage words of Mr Michael Nevin, of this parish, going into the business end of the season when he said Liverpool were ‘handily placed’ to click. And click they did.
With a raft of new signings to bed in this season — and little margin for error being offered from the wider world and even factions of Liverpool’s support — it’s a tall order to replicate the results of that campaign.
But if Liverpool can negotiate a more-than-tricky first few months and emerge in December among the pack, no-one will give two fucks about how we got our first six points. Just that we did.
That’s most of us anyway. Because if being proved right and scoring points on social media outweighs your club putting them on the table, you may as well pack in. Football…it’s supposed to be a laugh.
[rpfc_recent_posts_from_category meta=”true”]
Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda Photo
I agree with all of that. We’ve been mostly pretty rancid, perfomance wise, in the opening fixtures for years.
However…
At the end of last season I was in favour of a change. I wasn’t a nobhead and I don’t have a personal dislike of Rodgers, I just wasn’t convinced he was the man to take us forward anymore. Two wins and I still haven’t lost that viewpoint. Don’t get me wrong, we keep winning and I’m on board with everyone else, but I don’t think it’s wrong to have misgivings about the guy. It’s when people cross the line into mindless fume that I have a problem.
I’ve been listening to the 08/09 pods recently and I can remember how Rafa could do no right, despite being top of the league (which disgusted me at the time). For some fans out there, Rodgers is in the same boat. With me it’s about results. If he keeps getting them then no one should complain. If Liverpool win we all win.
Hi Karl
“I don’t think it’s wrong to have misgivings about the guy. It’s when people cross the line into mindless fume that I have a problem. I’ve been listening to the 08/09 pods recently and I can remember how Rafa could do no right, despite being top of the league (which disgusted me at the time). For some fans out there, Rodgers is in the same boat. ”
Great post – agree with every word of the above.
I only like to give opinions when I know the person or circumstance etc 100%. Not on someone who I barely know but is doing the best he can to manage Liverpool FC. I don’t know Brendan so my opinion would be flawed. All I need to know is he’s trying his best to turn around Liverpool’s fortunes. If it means he pisses half the fans off cause he’s not sticking to his original ideals so be it. It’s getting results so far. We should all be happy as fans cause he’s done his best and LFC have 2 wins, 6 points, no goals against. What more do you want? Who gives a toss how Rodgers does it? Plus we have 7-8 new signings who have only played twice together! Twice! If anyone has played competitive sport you all know if it’s a new team it takes a good 5-10 games to get the team to gel. LFC get a 1-0 away win at Stoke which is our bogey team and we get a 1-0 win to Bournemouth who have gelled cause they played 50 games together last season in the Championship. That’s two great results. Let’s keep the drive and momentum going and support LFC 100%.
Two spawny wins doesn’t exempt him from criticism. Bit early for handing out the back slaps and cigars. We will know more after Arsenal but not much more
You know all you need to know and nothing will change that :)
If come May we have had 38 “spawney” 1-0 wins no one will give a fuck how we played!!! I’ve been going to watch liverpool for over 20years and I for one would happily swap ” playing well and showing great character ” for a PL trophy regardless of how we play.
I’m really happy with how ( the style) we have started the season – mainly because it means Rodgers has clearly decided that results are all that really matters. I always felt that his death by football approach would always hinder a club that didn’t have the biggest budget. The fact that he now is prepared to employ a more basic system (presumably on a temporary basis or when required) I believe shows a manager who is maturing. The problem is the bitter moaners out there (that have always existed) now have a platform (twitter) to vent their often tiresome bile about a relatively young manager. I believe most of them dislike him because they want instant gratification (ie winning every game all the time) as when we lose they get upset/ angry and throw little hissy fits. In addition, I think because he’s not an ex player ( of note) or has a fancy foreign name they think he is frau. Despite having gained all his badges and done his time at all coaching levels ( no doubt with a very limited salary) they hate the idea that a working class lad had the audacity to make it big.
For me, I really couldn’t care two hoots about who the manager is. As a fan, all I want to see is a coach who can adapt to the match situation and that’s what frustrated me the most last season where he’d carry on doing the same thing over and over. I’ve been quite pleasantly surprised that he’s mixing things up now (maybe not by choice) but the team he’s building looks good. The biggest factor for me as a fan is that I want to see progress every week, win or lose it doesn’t matter, and I think this is where he falls short and deserves to receive all that criticism at times. If we played out of our socks and lost then there’d be no issue but if we played badly and won, he’d say it was a great performance (like Mourinho did after the City match) and that’s what pissed me off when we’d then go draw/lose the next few games.
Bad form doesn’t just appear All of a sudden. There are clear signs when things aren’t working, whether it be a shaky defense or a lack of goals, etc. If you spot an issue, fix it! There’s no time to save face and pat everyone on the back with a “bad luck, next time” – the great managers will labast their players for playing badly (SAF and Mourinho come to mind) but BR would previously just sweep it under the rug and hope for a miracle, hopefully he’s maturing and things will change though.
A fine post Rich. They’re the equivalent of the knobhead down the pub except they have a bigger audience. The outcome’s the same though as is proving to be the case on this site with the back lash to certain posters – we all know who they are – it’s just noise.
Well said, Andy, points are vital at this stage, although it IS more fun when the ball is being knocked around like it was 1987. As a side bar, can Xabi be our NEXT manager (whenever that may be)?
Totally agree, when Mourinho shuts up shop and plays boring football to get the job done it’s smart tactical football, rodgers plays a more defensive system and he gets criticised, don’t hear anyone criticising man utd for their two drab performances, I think Rodgers isn’t a fans favourite because he isn’t a big name manager and the only way he will win over some fans is if we win the league.
The way Mourinho sets Chelsea up in big games is horrible to watch, it’s horrible on every footballing principle. Regardless of results, I would never want to support a club that puts a result first as much. The bus-parking, the 1st minute leg-breaking, the time-wasting, the ridiculous excuses for when it doesn’t go their way… It’s all disgusting.
As for United, well, they’re just terrible, and unfortunately under van Gaal seem to be getting away with it. Last season, for what they’ve spent, the players they’ve had at their disposal, and their manager’s pedigree, they were abysmal. It just so happens, we were even worse, and let them get away with it. And their two games this season, I watched both, to me it looked the same, and aside from the CF position on paper they look to be an even better squad. Even last night they needed Fellaini in the dying seconds for a respectable result in CLQ, and they’ve played really well in that game.
As for BR, I don’t need him to win us the league for me to support him (and it doesn’t mean I don’t already). I just want him to set up his teams to play the way they have from 2012 till 2014. 12/13 we finished 7th with 61 points – I loved that season, the 6-0s and 5-0s, a 5-2 and a Suarez hat-trick v Norwich, Jonjo and the Europa League. 14/15 we finished 6th with 62 points – I hated that season. Find the difference in those two.
I’m style over substance, always have been when it comes to football. I can’t understand the folks who say they wouldn’t mind us winning the league with a 38-0 goal difference, I think that would be the worst league win in the history of football. So I’ll reserve my beaming positivity for when we play a mad 2-2 at the Emirates, smash Norwich again, or pull off another 3-2 against City. You can have your pragmatism and your 1-0s at home to Bournemouth.
Football is a results business, entertainment is secondary. I don’t reckon football’s for you y’know lad.
Put a film on or something instead of the match. That’s probably more for you.
The last time Liverpool sought out a league winning manager with European Pedigree look what happened. Big Ears came home for good, we had a midfield the pride of Europe, we dined out on European nights being ranked #1, we feared no-one. Milan? Madrid? Barcelona?
And when we sought out a mid-table manager in Hodgson, as Paul Tomkins shows, the trend continues and as predicted the mid-table manager brought their mid-table form with them.
So is anyone surprised we’ve barely progressed (such a subjective term) under Rodgers bar one season of Suarez-inspired worldliness?
There are those who think the Liverpool managerial position is ok for someone who’s learning on the job. I can’t fathom this idiocy. Meanwhile we’ve had a glorious chance 3 years running now with United all over the shop (despite all the money they throw at players) of putting ourselves back amongst the big boys and all the rewards it brings, but it’s being spurned, choosing to labour with a manager who’s clearly promoted beyond his abilities.
Liverpool isn’t a club for a manager to learn on the job. Anyone who thinks this “should go and support a new club”: the retort of those that subscribe to Brendan FC and not Liverpool FC.
As no one player is bigger than the club, neither is no one manager.
Ultimately I don’t blame Rodgers. Like Hodgson before him, he’d have been mad to turn down the job offer on the table.
I blame the people who think a managerial shortlist, whittled down to Brendan Rodgers and Roberto Martinez as the best choices out there, is acceptable for a club of Liverpool’s standing.
Which title winning manager would you have gone for Wealthy?
Who would you go for in January Maude?
Be careful Bob, you know what happened last time.
Good rant. Well in
What a fantastic read, mate! It is all about starting strong and staying positive but some of our fans are busy judging us way too early. Hope we prove the cynics wrong and finish the season strong!
Cheers. YNWA!
I’ve not seen anything to suggest The Brodge is any closer to understanding his best eleven – and casting aside Lucas and Sakho is a mistake (even if the issue is them wanting minutes on the pitch, it’s up to Brendan to convince them to stay and compete) …
Not exactly been a glut of good performances since Luis departed – it’s obvious that he (with able support from the currently injured Studge) made a massive contribution.
It’s very easy to make a case that THOSE PLAYERS (carrying Raheem along with them) made the difference rather than any tactical “light bulb” moment from our manager – just look at how many times we had to basically score more than the opposition because our defending still wasn’t great (27 goals conceded in the second half of the season – more than the first half ! City conceded 16 in that period …)
In summary – our striker force made Brendan look good in 2103/4 and without them he was found out – whether the new attacking signings can provide similar success – or conversely the defence can sort itself out and become watertight – remains to be seen, but I won’t be placing any large bets on it based on the evidence so far.
Haha, The Brodge! Really really funny that mate. I’m in stitches here. Nice one.
If Suarez had joined the club in 13/14 that argument would have slightly more weight but he had already been at the club for 2 1/2 seasons and we didn’t come close to winning the league.
That Rodgers struggled to get the team last season without a remotely in-form striker is not surprising. Despite that, we were still in the hunt for top 4 up until the United game and Gerrard’s sending off.
agree with you 100%
Well said.
I haven’t heard too much dissent from the fans so far, but the media have been shocking, treating Rodgers almost as a figure of fun.
It has the feeling of the media campaign against Benitez, which ultimately turned the (more stupid elements of the ) fan base against him.
He is being pragmatic in order to win games and rack up points…all power to him.
Cheers
Have you seen Roberto Martinez on MNF the other week and his response to being called pragmatic? I thought it was brilliant and gave me an impression that managers with a distinct attacking philosophy really don’t like that word.
Great article Andy-love how it’s brought out the fume brigade!
So what’s wrong with a little diversity? I, for one, think that the regular “great article, I’d totally do naughty things to be on one of your shows” crowd, well, it becomes a bit monotonous after a while.
Honestly my philosophy this season is #rodgersout and clearly I’m not going to stop any time soon until i see change
In a supporter’s point of view,
Liverpool need a more experienced manager(no trial and error)who has seen it all and has archieved success in his managerial years
A manager who will help Liverpool acquire world class players by his sheer presence in the club which brendan cannot when other clubs have lvg mourinho pellegrini and wenger
And most importantly will make Liverpool be a top four club (not hit and miss like in brendan’s era)before trophies come rolling in eventually
Manchester united did it when they quickly realised moyes was not the man for the job and got LVG
I believe it all starts up there and the rest will just fit into place(scouting,transfers,coaching staff and tactics)
I dont hate brendan personally but he is not the manager to bring the slightest bit of success we liverpool fans crave for-in my opinion
Last season liverpool bought markovic origi can lallana lambert and lovren.
Lallana’s transfer fee was outrageous,I strongly believe we would have acquired a better player for that fee
Lovren’s was absurd!a 20M defender should be much better,can was reasonably priced,markovic has not rised to the occasion yet,as for origi i dont see anything special in him but there is room for improvement
Balotelli was a terrible gamble ,I reckoned it would backfire but not as much as it did.
Liverpool played poorly 2014/15 season,i must say.Even the brief spell liverpool won a couple of matches in a row after new year they were not convincing at all.Eventually manchester united hull aston villa arsenal and stoke had to give liverpool a reality check.
This season’s arrivals i think were much better except for benteke,he’s not a 32 M kind of player .I’ll not comment since the season has just began
Gone are the days when I would see matches against chelsea arsenal manchester united and manchester city(etihad) (since they’ve not stopped the jinx at anfield which i think they will this season under brendan)
and strongly believe we’d cause an upset and win like liverpool usually did
Well,liverpool began the season reasonably good 6 points in 2 matches,2 cleansheets with 1-0 nervy narrow margins(replicating how we played last season before we got “found out”)but my worry is this,will the performance improve?will liverpool score more goals to win convincingly or outscore the opposition when defending is poor?
Most importantly does brendan have a plan B to fall to when tactics dont work which I believe he lacked when liverpool got ” found out” last season
Lets assess this season so far,
Im not a pessimist but if stoke were with their captain-shawcross- ,crouch and arnautovic,the so-called demons would have done a number on liverpool once again or “held on” for a draw atleast judging from how poorly liverpool played
The bournemouth game was a bit better,liverpool missed clear cut chances like coutinho not converting with his left foot and benteke hitting the post after a delicious cross from clyne
Now its arsenal,at the emirates.The big test for brendan rodger’s new season.I hope we win but an inner voice tells me we’ll lose.If arsenal play close to their best,yes close, they’ll score 2 or possibly 3 judging from the shaky defence.I dont see liverpool outscoring them to be honest .
I will be really surprised if liverpool won!
From a supporter’s point of view*
Which manager would you realistically go for?
If Bony and Lukaku were ~30 mil pound strikers than Benteke definitely is. Also, let’s just wait and see how well united do this season before singing Louis’ praises. De Gea picked them up plenty of points last season and going on his past record it won’t belong before he has a massive falling out with the whole squad.
Not a pessimist??? thank fuck for that
Good read and well written Andy, but for me the jury is still out. There’s no denying he has some talent as a manager, his tactics and formation (albeit forced to some degree through Sturridge and Suarez needing to play) and last season when he picked the fals nine at Bournemouth till about March shows he has capability. However like all managers he has a ball achingly stubborn side that just gnaws at me. Finding this wonderful, exciting way to play was a cue for…what exactly? For him to bin the system off completely, replace the mobility with immobility and play them as lone strikers when they were suited to a pairing. And now it seems Lucas and Sakho could be on their way out even though they both should be starting.
The good thing is, that now, theres nowhere to hide, no excuses. he gets the players he wants and plays his way – but for me his way isnt convincing. Its slow, turgid fare. The reason we’ve been so poor in the opening two games regardless of result is because the formation is all wrong and so are the players he is playing. He did the same thing last year and in the first alf of his first season. He’s fortunate a Coutinho wonderstrike and a fortune piece of reffing has gave him a positive start.
Anyway we will see. I think hes got a lot of convincing to do and he may not convince anyone at all no matter what but one thing we do know, its on his head now.
And fortunate he had a solid defence……
So….Izo…name three managers you would want in.
How come so many fans doesn’t realize that the lack of titles is a result of what happened many years ago. Actually when Benitez was still in charge. He brought huge results during his spell, but he also helped disarm Liverpool together with the Hicks/Gillett-regime. Selling Alonso, Mascherano, Torres was the start to an inevitable decline. Not by selling their best players, but to mark Liverpool as a “selling club”. Damaging reputation, player relations and any hopes of bringing in star quality. Hell it almost made Gerrard leave at one point.
One must understand that the squad haven’t been top 4 quality since. Actually almost everyone agreed that when Rodgers did reach second place, and almost grabbed the title, he got 200% out of every single player.
Ask yourselves what manager would have done a better job with the same squad. A squad that left Rodgers having to make stars out of 17 years old. Do you think Sterling would have gotten a chance in any of the Top 4? Do you think Suarez with all his issues would have developed to the star player that he is today? Look at Sturridge and Coutinho, two players that was left to rotten in big clubs, but who Rodgers managed to develop into star quality.
And because of the Hicks/Gillette/Benitez heritage we have now lost another two of our best players. Making Rodgers starting over once more without being able to attract the absolute best.
Despite the money coming in we’re no longer attracting star quality, and this won’t change with any other ”available” manager.
Another obvious problem is the directors. Not renegotiating contracts in time, frustrating players by offering bad deals, and holding out to long with new transfers. Gerrard told he would have signed a new deal the year before, Sterling would have signed a new contract the year before, Skrtel going berserk by what he called a laughable deal. Loosing out on all Rodgers top targets during his first years.
With all above said I think we should all be quite happy with Rodgers still managing the club. What other options do we have? Managing Liverpool nowadays means pressure compared to any title contender, but with tools of a mid level club.
Those of you who scream Klopp, Guardiola or any other star manager – get real! They wouldn’t want to risk taking what could actually be the most difficult manager job out there.
I believe in Rodgers and actually think he will get us back to the top, but its a long term project and it won’t happen this year.
Blaming Benitez for making us a “selling” club is a bit much although there were a few things he probably could have handled a bit better. We have always sold our best players, even during the 80’s. Hicks and Gillet rightfully deserve all the blame they get, particularly Hicks.
Ummm Benitez did’nt sell MAsch or Torres did he?.
Also if your looking for blame look no further than H&G, Purslow and Broughton.
I suppose by that logic, Paisley sold Keegan (or was it Shanks seeing as you seem to be blaming the wrong managers!), completely ignoring the fact that the players wanted to go.
to make a triumvirate by adding Rafa to the yanks is a cunts trick of the highest order.
I believe FSG was right to stick with Rodgers this season. I think he’s earned that bit of extra rope for the season he gave the club in 13/14. I however don’t think it is abnormal for supporters to feel nervous about the direction the team’s play is taking. Since that glorious season, good offensive displays have been few and far between. “Coincidentally” the key figure in those displays has left the club. Since that departure we have had to depend more on our ability to defend than our ability to score. Under Brendan we have been consistently quite poor at the back. Many are still wary about the new signings brought in this year. We say we’ve bought premier league experience and that is supposed to calm things down, yet our last two most prolific forwards have been from other leagues. Some choose to hope that Rodgers has it all under control as part of a more elaborate plan and I desperately want that to be true. Others are less optimistic given the way the team played in what was one of the worst performances I’ve witnessed as a Liverpool fan. I wish Brendan all the luck and success in the world this season but I can’t say I’m not nervous looking at the way we have kicked off this season. So I can see why not everyone is going to satisfied despite 6points from 2 fixtures.
Why is it that whenever TAW adresses the fans’ criticisms of the team’s performance those fans are always the ones in the Rodgers Out camp with their agendas against the manager, the ones who call him Brenda or fraud or whatever else is a popular non-football criticism of him these days?
I have no desire for FSG to sack BR anytime this season – though his team does need to do a bit more for me to forget last season completely. Full disclosure, after the Villa loss, I was ready for Klopp big time, it didn’t happen, a new season has started and I don’t want the team that I support to go through anything but a successful drama-free season now.
I’d actually have no idea about his personal life, his teeth or his girlfriend, if your articles didn’t mention it so damn often.
On the other hand, I really didn’t like the first two games we’ve played this season at all. I don’t like the lumping it up to Benteke which we were doing for 90 mins at Stoke and 20 at Anfield (I will say I thought Benteke was excellent against Bournemouth, though mostly after that 20 mins of long ball action, I can remember just one situation before that when Mignolet finding him with a long ball created an attack for us).
I don’t like the look of our midfield, Henderson playing deep when him and Milner have so much attacking potential with a holding player in behind – who I think can be Can to great effect, if the trio of them were coached and played enough for them to know when to cover for each other.
So I don’t like the team selection and their set up, but I also don’t like the bench, with certain players who’ve shown their quality in a piss poor season seeming to be getting alienated or designated to Europa League action only.
And I don’t like BR waxing lyrical about our options in attack when against two midtable sides, and once at home, we’ve hit 5 shots on target and a crossbar.
I loved Brendan’s “death by football” shtick – where’s that guy hiding?
I’m not confident we can dog it out at the Emirates. Arsenal are a great attacking side with amazing players who will also have to exorcise a few West Ham sized demons in front of their home crowd. So my view is we need to be able to, on top of being defensively solid, score at least two, and the games against Stoke and Bournemouth didn’t give any indication of us being able to do that yet.
But hey, that’s all probably because the manager can never win with me, right? The time for criticism will be when last season starts happening again and the Anfield Wrap comes to the opinion that we’re playing poorly and the manager is getting things wrong.
Thanks Andy. That was a great read. ‘Ready Brek and a sly line’ – you’ve given me the inspiration to start my day just like that tomorrow. The moaners should just be quiet now – if he doesn’t get the correct results then he’s going to get sacked. If he gets the correct results then we’ll all enjoy ourselves, which is the whole bastard point really!!!! Something which many fans on these threads forget. Enjoyment from supporting a team (not the manager) that you love.
Of course every fan is entitled to an opinion and positive criticism should always be encouraged but I for one am thoroughly bored with endless rants from those who seem to spend every waking hour thinking of reasons to hate Brendan Rodgers.
Guess what ? If he fails this season THE OWNERS willl sack him. You will then be able to bask in your I-told -you -so glory . Then start the cycle again if the next manager fails to please. Hire another plane.
In the meantime , why not have some pride in OUR CLUB , be pleased with maximum points, a rare win at Stoke., that Coutinho goal .
The fun in life comes from not knowing what will happen next rather than waiting for your doom-laden theories to be proven correct.
Look forward to how well OUR PLAYERS like Firmino, Benteke , Sturridge, Coutinho, Ibe, Ings ,Henderson, Clyne, Gomez etc might play when all fit and firing-there’s so much exciting potential there . Look forward to finding new heroes instead of slagging them before they’ve even kicked a ball. Leave the bile spewing to the Mancs and the commenters on The Echo , The Wrap and LFC deserve better than that.
Well said, Andy, as always. The arrogance of some of our fans is sometimes really beyond belief. Fortunately, we have a calm, self-controlled manager who has proven he’s neither arrogant NOR stubborn — by being willing and able to adapt to changing conditions. And he also does the right thing by not giving attention to those who criticise and moan endlessly.
As he said, “The third group are the critics and you never change them ever. Ever. If you win 4-0 it should have been five, if you win the league you should have won three. But I will never worry about that group, because you can never affect them.”
I suggest the rest of us do the same. Ignore the fuming idiots. Marginalise then. They are not true Liverpool supporters. We should not allow them to control the dialogue and be seen as representing the majority — 68% of whom in the recent Echo supporters’ poll responded that they believe Brendan Rodgers IS the right man for the job.
If its the same for Rafa, same for Rodgers, then maybe the manager is not the issue.
Its this group of “fans” that do not understand, and will probably never understand, about the meaning of supporting the team and getting behind regardless.
Glad that Brendan is pissing them off. Maybe they’ll pack up and go support Chelsea instead.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again —
If a person (or group of fans) hates the manager; hates and distrusts the Owners both when they don’t attend games and when they do; hates how the club operates and how it buys and sells players; hates and mocks the coaching staff but then hates when they are let go and questions the quality and credentials of the new staff brought in to replace them; hates new players before they even step onto the Anfield pitch and kick a ball; hates and viciously abuses existing players; hates when players are selected and when they aren’t selected, then WHAT does it actually mean to be a fan, a supporter of our club?
These people are not supporters. They are haters, plain and simple. They’re bent on spreading a cancer through our fan base. It’s up to each of us to choose whether we want to align ourselves with such people. A man (or woman) is known by the company he keeps — whether it’s company kept in person in a pub, or company kept online by following, listening to, replying to, re-Tweeting, acknowledging their hate in any way. And rationalising it as ‘banter’ is a lame and pathetic excuse — the mentality of 12-year-olds.
People who write or speak for TAW, and those who read and listen to its content, are better than that.
You can bang on about 6 points from 2 games but the fact is we were rewarded that second game by the referees. There is nothing wrong with playing ugly and winning however grit had nothing to do with it other than getting 2 very favorable decisions that should both have gone the other way consigning us to a loss at Anfield. That the opposition was Bournemouth is even worse. At times they pressed us like they were Barcelona . Rodgers is a very lucky man and everyone knows it. However the real test begins against Arsenal and the coming weeks. One thing is for sure play as we did in our last game and we will get murdered. Quite frankly the honeymoon is over this will tell us exactly how much grit and determination this team he has assembled has.
If a fan hates the manager? Well, ffs, they’re entitled to. If they were to hate every manager then I’d see your point. I’m absolutely confident that if I were a Chelsea fan, I’d still hate Mourinho as much as I do now, probably even more. Same way as I very much dislike Real Madrid, but love Rafa, so I wouldn’t mind seeing him get some success over Barca this season. Only a handful of players/managers are that ingrained with the culture of it, that they actually can’t be viewed as separate from the club. And what about Hodgson? A real fan like you must have loved him.
Distrusting the owners over attending games? I think that only came up during last season’s misery, when it looked as if we were on a downward trajectory because of missing out on future revenue what with the CL qualification, money and all, and their absence caused worries about their own future interest. Who’s complaining about them attending a game? As for all other criticism towards them, while some is irrational, I think a lot of it is, if nothing, very understandable, their relationship with the club could affect its success or even very existence.
Hates and mocks the coaching staff? Well, Pascoe wore shorts all the time, it’s hardly an insult. As for their credentials, Liverpool is a big club, we’re told as much by the very same coaches every other interview. It’s reasonable for some fans to expect big names, rich CVs, throphies and experience. Same goes for player transfers. Plus, I don’t see anyone in the comments mocking or hating on O’Driscoll and Gary Mac.
Hates players before they kick a ball for the club? Where have you been living at? The way football is marketed, the sheer ammount of it on TV, all the FIFAs and FMs, and millions of websites writing articles each and every day on this player and that player, how is it any surprise that a certain player will have his fans and his critics? TAW wrote pieces on why we should and shouldn’t buy Benteke. In the case of Balotelli, maybe the club would have been better of listening to those non-fans, then you happy-go-luckys who thought that a man who categorically denied wanting to sign him a week before he did would get 20 goals out of him (if only he played him in a two ;).
Abuse existing players? Give me a break. Most of the criticisms are a more clever (or less clever) way of calling them shite. Hardly vicious abuse. (There are exceptions I’ll grant you, but hardly a majority or any significant portion of people.)
The selection? Well, again, they’re entitled to an opinion. Everyone has their favorites. I want Sakho to start over Lovren, doesn’t mean I don’t want Lovren to keep a clean sheet. And if you meant, bitching about the same player not starting and then starting, then that’s just stupid, there are hardly many of those kind.
Now, I’ll give you that there are some absolute nutters, and they’re mostly in the comments on the internet, but they’re so easy to identify and therefore ignore. Their comments usually boil down to a caps-locked unintelligent insult. I’m sure you’ll have no trouble distancing yourself from such.
I’m more concerned about people like you, the so called real fans, who advocate for others who simply don’t share their opinion on a club matter to “bore off and go support Chelsea”. I’d like to not be aligned with you. Unfortunately, that’s a hell of a lot harder than not being identified with some knobhead on the internet who calls our manager Brenda the Fraud, because of his teeth or a new girlfriend. So why don’t you just support your club the way you see fit, and leave others to do the same. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion, and if an actual line gets crossed, somebody more competent than you is on it, believe me. You (or your like-minded commenters or writers) don’t have a monopoly on the definition of a Liverpool FC supporter.
@Ellie – two comments above
@Velimir, I never put myself forward as a perfect fan or a person who anyone should follow or even agree with. I don’t express my POV seeking your praise or agreement or anyone else’s. What I wrote above are things I’ve actually seen in recent weeks on social media written by people who claim to be Liverpool fans. It’s a minority’s but it’s not an isolated few.
By attacking my comments you only expose your own mean-spirited attitude. You have read things into my comments that are not there. Those things are in your own mind, not in mine. I’m certainly glad I don’t know you. We agree on one thing — we neither of us wish to be aligned with the other.
Except that your comments are formed from the POV of agreement with an article that lumps anyone who finds faults in the performance of the team with the ones who post “snide comments about (the manager’s) private life”. And aside from maybe the last paragraph of my “attack” on your comments, I have to disagree on me misreading things. I gave you a different view on the points you raise, and, as I would expect, from what may be a misinterpreted image I’ve formed of you, you’ve simply disregarded it all and consigned me to the mean-spirited club, the fuming idiots who should be marginalized, the non-fans.
I do want you to know that my mean-spirited attitude is solely directed at you and what I perceive to be the high-on-their-horse fans that I’ve previously described. I actually support BR and wish and cheer on this team to all the success it can achieve (though I’d settle for top 4 or even better the Europa League trophy, I’m not down with the whole business of a 38-0 league-winning season).
But anyway, I too, am glad to not know you, and remain firm in my stance not to be aligned with you, so don’t worry about me “attacking” your comments anymore.
And sorry for this, but I just have to add: Really the main point of my response to your comments was actually that you don’t own the rights to the definition of who or what is an LFC supporter. And quite clearly, your comments were a call for a group of people not to be regarded as supporters of this club (argumented by the points you’ve made about their views on the manager, the owners etc.).
“They are not true Liverpool supporters.
I’ say it again –
These people are not supporters.”
But, yeah, I’m mean-spirited, so you must be right.
You aren’t ‘sorry’, so don’t pretend to be. You chose to attack me personally, individually, instead of simply stating your opinion as part of the mix. We can all draw our own conclusions from that.
The only reason I was sorry is for not wrapping it up in one post. I was saying sorry simply for posting the second comment, instead of doing it more concisely in one post.
I am definitely not sorry for calling you on your bullshit. I stand by what I’ve said, and my opinion of you remains the same and only becomes more and more convincing.
For the last time: You really need to re-read your own comments and stop playing the victim here. I’m only talking about the TAW comment section now, and the people who post “negatively” almost always do it by giving out their reasons for it, however well-founded they may or may not be, or as much as you may disagree with them. They rarely go on a rant about the others who feel differently to them and about how they’re all fake fans and should be ignored. Your lot, on the other hand, almost exclusively does that. You never respond with a counter-argument, but with a general dismissal, accompanied by a few insults, safe in the knowledge that because it is a currently popular opinion on the TAW website, you’ll be surrounded with like-minded sycophantic crowd of “real” fans who’ll jump in to support you (even the TAW staff occasionally helps out in that regard).
You deserve to have your comments attacked, because of their discriminatory nature and your need to convince others of who deserves to be considered a fan and who doesn’t.
In the end, I’d just like to remind you of some of the language that your kind of commenter uses to describe the ones who’ve found criticism with a drab 1-0 win at home to a newly promoted side:
“the fume brigade”, “not real supporters”, “marginalize the fuming idiots”, “you should go and support ______”. When those people make their arguments for what they would like our club to be like, be run like, play like…. what are the names that they call the fans who are over the moon with the 6 points out of 6 and are emphatically behind the current trajectory that the club is on?
If we’re gonna start walking down the Rodgers Can’t Win path its only fair you point out that theres also Rodgers Can’t Lose path. People were even excusing losing 6-1 to Stoke for goodness sake. But lets not go there. I’ve kind of noticed that this sort of thing seems to balance itself out. One fan posts criticism, gets attacked by the Rodgers Defense Force. One posts positives and gets the same. Its life. Some like Rodgers, some can’t stand him. Some, like me, feel that he was always under-qualified but he’s here anyway.
Then theres certain individuals. Velimir is dealing with one as we speak. People who can’t stop and think about the fact that a lot of us here have been Liverpool supporters since we learned how to kick a ball. Don’t come here to patronise us. Maybe you are especially satisfied with the way things are going but some, like me , aren’t quite so certain and others are completely unsatisfied. Ignore the trolls if they wind you up but as is stated above, leave others to support the club as they see fit.
Liverpool aren’t in a position now to be too concerned with style. The club is in decline on the field, missing out on the Champions League nearly every season for the last 6 years.
Wins are all that concerns me now. I don’t rate Rodgers as being anywhere near the level of elite managers but if he gets the wins I don’t care what his name is.
Well said!!!!!
When you hear that champions league tune in a few weeks time and remember when quarter finals and semi finals were standard……
#fume
#fsgthegamblehasntworked
see this is one of the things that gets my goat, yes we all miss the Champions league games but that is not FSG’s fault, they are re building the club into an entity that is sustainable and competitive. Re building after the club was almost destroyed by the H&G Purslow and Parry.
Guess what there are no Arab billionaires wanting to piss a country’s wealth away who are interested. I personally think that is a good thing, the EPL is in a massive inflated bubble at the moment and like all bubbles they eventually pop and the fallout will be spectacular.
“For some, clearly, whatever Rodgers does will never be good enough and that he seemingly has more than one string to his bow is being spun as a negative trait.”
Stopped reading right there. Win a fucking trophy and then write that, not before.
Liverpool – good start – form not so good.
Mancs – Good start – from not so good
Arsenal – mediocre start – form poor
Chelski – shit start – form shit and showing sexist and dictorial tendencies
City – well the did buy Rah£££££££££M!
If we survive to Man City in mid-November, we have a run of fixtures that features 14 out of 16 matches that are what percentages would have us call “winnable.”
By that time, football gods willing, Sturridge, Benteke, and Firmino should just about be set to tear up the league like a lawn mower. Coutinho working his magic while Milner and Henderson interchange for breathers in the deepest-lying role.
And, at least in my mind, Sakho should be on his way to becoming the first PFA Player of the Year to be a CB since Terry in 04/05.
Where is that Roy Evans sound bite from?
It’s from a two part interview we did with him on TAW Player mate.
Nice sentiments…I think this season is like the start to 13/14 in more than just the results. People forget we missed Luis for six games (5 in the league) and it felt like we just needed to get results until he came back, it feels like that to me again with Sturridge so close to returning once again. Lets get through these aways, pick up draws when/if we get played off the park and then keep reminding everyone that in the second half of the season they have to come to Anfield. Utd one season played the previous years top 10 away from home in the first half of the season and then red nose rammed that point home over and over again once they were “handily placed” Lets do the same as we are going to win the league.
I hope you’re right, and the parallels are there. But keep in mind Suarez was coming back from a suspension, fit and ready to go, whereas Sturridge is coming back from what is hopefully a final rehab from a number of injuries over the past few seasons. Last season, we hoped he’d come back firing, and kept going on about how as soon as we get him back we jump to fourth easily. We need to ease Sturridge back both in game time and expectation (I just want him to stay injury-free this season, and ready to again be our 25 goal striker in the next). I also hope that Ings doesn’t become stuck in our EL squad and gets given some minutes in the PL.
Rafa Benitez is rightly held in high regard on these pages.When he joined Valencia in 2001 at the age of 41 he’d had a fairly checkered 8 year management career including a couple of promotions to the top division but also relegation and sacking. Valencia obviously saw something in the young manager and he went on to have enormous success in the next 3 years , winning two la liga titles .The first title in his debut season was won with just 75 points, only 51 goals scored and a top scorer in Baraja with seven goals. Benitez was obviously some sort of genius winning the title with modest Valencia up against the might of the two Spanish giants.
However , it shouldn’t be forgotten that Hector Cuper had built a quality squad and had taken Valencia to the Champions League final in both seasons that preceded Rafa’s arrival , narrowly losing to Bayern Munich on penalties in 2001
When Brendan Rodgers joined Liverpool in 2012 he was 39 with 5 years management experience which included getting Swansea promoted and established in the Premier League but also a period of failure at Reading. The new owners at Liverpool saw something in the promising young manager and snapped him up.
In his second season , as we all know, Liverpool came within a whisker of winning the Premier League with 101 goals scored, second only to the richest team since money was invented. He was named Manager of the year by the LMA.This after inheriting a fairly mediocre squad and after several years of turmoil and underachievement.
Now the parallels between the two managers’ early careers are obvious.But had it not been for a late capitulation at Palace and a skipper’s first slip in living memory Rodgers might currently be feted as the second coming of Shankly. Had Rafa been sacked in his first year at Valencia , as was reportedly very close to happening, would he have been given another chance by a top club?
We have yet to find out what Brendan came become.His management career began in November 2008 and I would suggest that he is far from the finished article.He has got a lot of things wrong over the past 3 years but has also thrilled us with some of the best football we have ever seen. Can anybody be sure he won’t do it again?
“He has got a lot of things wrong over the past 3 years but has also thrilled us with some of the best football we have ever seen. Can anybody be sure he won’t do it again?”
Very much this; last half of 13/14 was the time of me life. Would love to go for a pint with him just to pick his brains and see what he’s thinking. A common complaint with Rodgers is that he likes his talking regarding the media side of things but I think a lot of people (including myself) are still confused on how he sees his ideal Liverpool team playing footy e.g. how Coutinho plays with Benteke week to week.
Maybe I’m misremembering but it felt like everyone knew where they where for Rafa’s footy, even when he was getting ripped by a load of twats for not being the greatest public speaker the English language has ever seen (the same knobs who praised Mourinho for carrying on woeful as far back as 2005 and are still committed to it a decade on – “box office…” – real life Brents/Partridges, the lot of them).
The same people who are using Lucas being dropped as a stick to beat Rodgers with are the same as the people that beat Rafa with the Lucas stick for playing him.
I really don’t believe that to be true and it’s very disingenuous to link the two tbh