CHRISTIAN Benteke’s imminent signing has divided opinion among Liverpool supporters and both Melissa Reddy here and Dave Segar here have shared their reservations about the player on The Anfield Wrap. However, following on from Neil Docking’s tub-thumper about the big Belgian, MIKE KENNEDY of Micro LFC gives 13 reason why he thinks the £32.5m striker could be money well spent.
1) It lifts the Sterling gloom, promptly
There was giddiness after the flurry of early signings but after Sterling’s departure that positivity gave way to a kind of fatalistic pessimism about Liverpool’s current stature and place in the global game. A fallen giant. A selling club. “Our best players leave every year.”
Benteke’s signing puts us back on a positive footing quickly. And the speed of the riposte is important for the morale of fans and players.
2) Our squad is undoubtedly enhanced
I can’t remember a time when Liverpool had such a paucity of quality striking options. Forget the fee for a minute (we’ll talk about that later), Benteke’s arrival undoubtedly enhances our squad by giving it extra quality, physicality and goals.
3) Benteke scores goals in England
In 2012-2013 he played 39 games, scored 23 goals.
In 2013-2014 he played 28 games, scored 11 goals.
In 2014-2015 he played 33 games, scored 15 goals.
In three seasons at Aston Villa he played 101 games and scored 49 goals. These goals weren’t scored in the French league, or the Dutch league, or in Belgium. The goals were all scored here in England; they’re solid stats, by any measure.
Very few signings can ever be described as ‘100 per cent proven’, but the fact that Benteke has already adjusted to the pace and physicality of the Premier League significantly boosts his chances of success at Liverpool.
4) Benteke’s signing allows us to attack from different angles
Being able to attack with variety is an under-appreciated facet of the game. I’m all for it. Mainly because it keeps the fun going. I like knowing there’s multiple ways we could score and I like having a blend of options on the bench.
Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that the pleasure of football is mostly hope. More options = more hope. I’m on board with this.
5) Benteke will create space for everyone else
Benteke will frequently occupy two — and even three — defenders. That’s huge. We know from Suarez’s time how large and effective the ‘gravity’ around a quality striker can be and the space it can create for team-mates. (Of course Benteke doesn’t have Suarez’s skill, but his impact on the field, in terms of occupying an area of space, can be comparable. Just look at some of our recent games against Villa).
Benteke’s muscularity and hold-up play can give us a fulcrum to build our attacks around. I’m excited by the concept of our creative midfielders swarming around a bonafide striker who is bull-strong.
With Benteke on the field our attacking line can be 10 yards higher up the pitch. This will create more space for our creative midfielders and allow us to press higher and more aggressively, which means we’ll win the ball back in more dangerous areas.
It’s not just goals that Benteke will add to the team. It’s presence. Even though it’s hard to measure the impact of that, I think the benefit will be self-evident. (Again watch some of our recent games against Villa to see this in action.)
Speaking of which…
6) Liverpool won’t have to play him again
Anyone who saw Benteke’s last four appearances against the Reds will vividly remember the menace he carried. He can be an outrageous handful.
Thankfully, we won’t have to play against him again.
7) Benteke’s signing gives us a new poster boy (Don’t laugh, it’s important)
The best and most marketable stars are goalscorers. People love a star striker. (You can make a compelling argument that football teams are defined by their strikers.)
If Benteke’s signing ‘works’ then the benefit to the club on and off the field is much larger than if Clyne’s signing ‘works’. A star striker is big news in football terms, big news in commercial terms, big news for ticket sales, big news for TV revenue, big news in every sense (and Christ knows, with Carragher, Suarez, Gerrard and Sterling all buggering off Liverpool are a football club in dire need of a new poster boy).
8) Benteke’s signing is good for Liverpool’s global profile
There’s not many clubs in the world that can drop £32.5m on a striker. Liverpool are one of them. A £32.5m signing creates headlines all over the world (I was in Java when Liverpool signed Andy Carroll and it made the local papers there). Benteke’s huge fee keeps Liverpool positioned in the headlines of global sport as a serious outfit.
9) Benteke’s best years are ahead of him
Benteke is 24 and he’s also ‘A Big Man’. Most Big Men mature in footballing terms later than Small Men and Medium Men. Look at Drogba, Zamora, Carew, Quinn (Niall, not Mickey) and Kevin Davies. Benteke has potentially got 10 years of improvement in him (somewhere in the world, Andy Carroll will be playing devastating football when he’s 30…maybe).
10) As an asset, Benteke’s sell-on value will remain strong
Even if Benteke flops, his sell-on value will remain decent. He’s young, has proven he can score goals in the Premier League and has that most en vogue quality of being Belgian. If he’s a super-flop, we’ll still get £16m-£20m for him in two years.
11) Liverpool finally have a set-piece threat
Bingo! At long last we won’t be relying solely on Skrtel.
12) Suddenly 4-5-1 is back on the agenda
We haven’t been able to field an effective 4-5-1 in years and that’s been to our detriment. It’s a brilliant system when deployed at the right time. For example when arresting an opposing team’s momentum, locking a game down in the 5-10 minutes after a goal (to either team), or dogging an awkward away tie in Europe.
I don’t want to see us flooding the midfield every week, but when it’s needed I’d like us to be capable of it.
13) Benteke’s signing creates momentum.
Momentum is the most important thing in football. Not just within individual games, and week-to-week for the team, but at a club-wide institutional level. Benteke’s signing gets us over the Sterling speed bump and keeps the snowball rolling in a general direction we can all approve of (Liverpool making big signings and adding goals to the team).
And the four most common Benteke complaints…
And the four most common Benteke complaints…I believe that all of the above things are true, so I’m pleased that it looks like we’ve signed Benteke. But not everyone is.
As I see it there are broadly four reasons why some fans are complaining about Liverpool signing Benteke.
1) He doesn’t fit our style
I get this point, I do, but was ‘our style’ good last season? Was it even evident? Last season how effective was ‘our style’? I’m happy to try something new.
2) We’re making the Carroll mistake again.
Again I understand this, but Benteke isn’t Carroll. He’s more mobile, more talented and has a better track record.
3) The money should’ve been spent elsewhere, on someone better.
Yes there might have been a better signing (there’s always a better signing somewhere), but how many elite strikers want to come to the current Liverpool? And how many are proven in the Premier League? Benteke is a decent option.
4) He’s not worth £32m.
‘Worth’ is a nebulous concept, but I take the point. In my eyes Benteke’s natural value in around £25m. So maybe we’ve overpaid by £7m. Honestly, I’m not that bothered. That’s one Luis Alberto. £7m doesn’t significantly move the dial in either direction, so who cares?
Also, if Sterling is worth £49m then Benteke is worth £32m (with the huge jump in both domestic TV revenue and Champions League money I think the sands have shifted in the transfer market. That happens every few years and it’s happening now. A rising tide lifts all ships; I think £32m is the new £25m).
There are plenty of valid doubts and tentative caveats around every signing (less than 50 per cent of signings are successful), but for all the reasons I’ve outlined here I think this is a positive signing for the club. Our prospects this season with Benteke are better than our prospects without Benteke. That’ll do for me.
– Read more from Mike at: microlfc.com
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Pics: PA Images/David Rawcliffe-Propaganda Photo
-52% of his goals either headers or penalties
-Injury record is poor = misses 1 in 4 (Sturridge misses 1 in 3)
-Caught offside more than any player in the EPL at 1.2 per game (second worst is 1.0 per game)
-Passing accuracy 66.7% (beyond pathetic – ranked 252nd in league)
-Fouled 0.8 per game (awful – Hazard best at 3.0, Sterling second best at 2.7)
-Aerials won = best in the league at 6.5 per game (second best is 4.8) but we will hardly be lumping balls to him the way Villa did.
His pressing off the ball is absolutely non existent. He makes 0.1 blocks per game and 0.1 interceptions per game.
He’s not slow, but only in the same way Balotelli and Emre Can aren’t slow, ie. it takes them an age to get going but when in full flow he can reach good speed. The problem here is his sharpness – it takes him too long to turn. His speed of movement from stationary is poor.
His feet aren’t great either.
His first touch with his feet is below average, with 2.3 unsuccessful touches per game (joint 6th worst in entire league). His first touch is much better with his chest, one of the best in the league (behind John Terry). But again, we are hardly going to lump it up to him.
I said Carroll was a disaster when we signed him. I hoped he’d prove me wrong. He didn’t. Im saying Benteke will do a bit better but not by much. I hope he proves me wrong.
But if Lacazette (better than Benteke and more suited to the way Coutinho, Firmino, Markovic, Lallana etc play) goes for £40m or under and we didn’t go for him then any Liverpool supporter who knows football will be utterly mystified.
Based in reality as I am (and not fantasy as many on here are) and given the fixture list, I find it hard to believe we won’t be 8th-10th come November with Rodgers in the middle of another meltdown and us in the middle of another wasted season, falling further behind our rivals.
Looking at the stats and also with the eye, the inevitable signing of Benteke boggles the mind. At the very least Rodgers has got (will get) his man, just as he did with Lovren, so he has no transfer committee to hide behind this year. If we do poorly its 100% on him and not even his apologists can’t deny it.
The bitterness required to compile this list of his worst stats is what’s mind boggling.
Any post with the word apologist in it is generally from a troll.
So telling the truth is “bitterness” now? You realise I didn’t make those stats us, yes? You know that they were researched by professionals in football analytics who have no bias against any one team or any one player, yes?
It also took me about 3 minutes to “compile” this list, given the stats are all important for a footballer. They are easy to find online if you have the slightest bit of intelligence, which I admit is not a certainty in your case.
I also put in his best stats as well but I’m not surprised you missed those. I explicitly state he’s the best in the league in the aerials won department. But its just a list of his worst stats, right?
And as so often happens on the internet, when you disagree with a moron, regardless of the evidence you produce, they automatically label you a troll. Smashing stuff.
Leanne the point that was being made was you deliberately went out to source his worst stats and made light of his best as we won’t be playing that way anyway.
I can understand why people are negative regarding benteke but his stat of only Aguero has scored more than him in the league since his debut speaks volumes.
The fact your fist sentence dismisses his goals as pens or headers discounts the fact that he actually scored them goals and the fact we’ve had no presence in the box for a few years actually makes me happy we’re trying something different.
He’s an ideal striker for 4-3-3 and possibly the best we could get. People see a name and a fee and think that’s that but the reality is does that player want to live and play in Liverpool and if either answer is no then you will not get him.
A better use of your time may be watching some games and realising just how isolated he was in that villa system and it’s very difficult to pass to a player when there’s a couple in the way. When he’s fit which he normally is bar a freak occurrence he scores goals links play bullies defenders and with Gerrard gone also scored pens and the odd free kick to boot.
So I ask before you get your knife out and say it’s all wrong you think to yourself that as written in the article less than 50% of transfers work out so there’s no proof that anyone else would do better
When the stats comparing Stirling and Coutinho were posted. The stats were truth apparently and Sterling was the undeniable player of the year. I did ask for the same stats for Henderson . As i felt they was marginally better than Stirlings even if it’s a pointless task. They wasn’t delivered as that would go against her frothing narative. Point is, who gives a shit.
So…….under an article about Benteke we should only discuss his stats if they are positive? You don’t see how shamefully reductive that is?
I didn’t go out of my way to source his worst stats. Your assumptions are pathetic.
I clicked a few buttons on my laptop, which took a couple of seconds, and I sourced all his stats, which took a couple of minutes. I did not know what they’d show before I looked at them. Its not my fault these stats do not show him in a better light but they are what they are – the truth. You’re behaving as if I’ve made them up.
If the stats showed him to be better than the ordinary fan thinks he is, I’d be writing about how the facts show a perception that he is not a top striker or worth £32.5m is wrong. That’s what i do. I live in reality. I form my opinions based on the facts. If you want to form your opinions based on “fingers crossed” and “well he now plays for Liverpool so I will automatically think he is better than the evidence before my eyes says he is” you’re more than welcome to do so.
And SG73, I never answered your Henderson’s stats question because (a) I did not see it and (b) Im not at your beck and call. If you are so interested, go and do the fucking research yourself. Who do you think you are to make demands of me to answer your questions?
In any case, unsurprisingly you are wrong.
I’m genuinely curious Leanne, I did a 10 minute search for those stats and couldn’t find them (admittedly it isn’t something I usually do so I am probably missing the obvious sources). Which site did you find them on?
Perhaps you ought to have taken more than three minutes to find those stats?
Since joining Aston Villa, Christian Benteke has scored 49 goals.
6 of those goals were penalties.
14 of those were headers.
That means that 20/49 goals were penalties or headers, or 41%.
But we can’t really fault him for scoring penalties, no? That said, let’s make sure those penalties aren’t skewing his scoring record too much, as they arguably did with Lambert and Balotelli.
So, since joining Villa he’s played 7786 minutes, scoring 43 non-penalty goals.
This means he’s scored a non-penalty goal every 181.1 minutes. In other words, a goal every other game.
Excluding penalties.
For Aston Villa.
Do we need a bit of perspective on this record?
Since joining Liverpool, Daniel Sturridge has scored a non-penalty goal every 85 minutes. That is incredible. He’s our first choice striker. Except he’s played one third the number of minutes for Liverpool that Benteke has for Villa. So.
Since joining Lyon, Alexandre Lacazette has scored a non-penalty goal every 176.3 minutes.
That’s an excellent record.
He’d be a great signing.
But his record is nearly identical to Benteke.
You said you’ve included his best statistics (aerials won), but you’ve failed to include what is a truly remarkable goal scoring record. Nice one.
The goal stats you have produced are only those for Aston Villa. For some reason you think his goals for Genk and Belgium don’t count. Strange.
Let me be clear. I don’t think he’s a bad player. Far from it. I question his suitability to play with players already at LFC. I question the price tag. I question if we could get someone better. Similarly, I also think Andy Carroll has great attributes and would be a quality player himself if not for him being a pisshead and his injury record.
You also haven’t questioned any of the other stats produced, which show his unsuitability, like his 0.1 interceptions per game. Hardly screams of someone who presses hard and defends from the front, something Rodgers himself has talked about. How about his his poor first touch. Or the time he takes to turn and get into a sprint. Or his awful passing success rate?
Why don’t you want to talk about those? I wonder……
No conspiracy here, I’m afraid.
I didn’t include Genk because it was over 3 years ago when he was 18-21, generally an unreliable time to judge a striker. Belgium is a surprisingly small sample size, likely due to the timing of his injuries.
Additionally, if his percentage of headers and penalties was higher prior to Villa, it means he’s moved in the “right” direction, no?
But his goal stats for Aston Villa are surely the most relevant. Much more relevant than international football, in which teams only have a few practice sessions together before tournaments and the Belgian league when he was just breaking through
What a depressing comment by Leanne. Glass empty, not even half empty. From now on as soon as I see this poster’s name at the top of a comment I won’t read a word of it. And the excuse that it’s ‘just telling the truth’ is lame. Liverpool desperately needs goals. Benteke is a PROVEN goal scorer in the PL. All the reasons given in the original article are sound, and they represent a depth of thought that is far superior to a bunch of dry stats taken out of context.
There was a stat a little while ago in May that stated in 41 league goals for Aston Villa, Benteke had 12 headers for goals. Lets remember, headers count. Remember how non-existent the attack was last year in set pieces around the box and corners?
https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/3bjl5z/clearing_up_some_misconceptions_surrounding/ – Here is an interesting commentary on Reddit from a Villa supporter that attempts to debunk many of the misconceptions about Benteke and provides video footage to back it up. It addresses many of Leanne’s concerns.
Fortunately he will show us what he is made of on the pitch. No sense in debating if someone is going to be a failure or a savior. That is the equivalent of banging your head against the wall.
PS, the fixture list isn’t all that its cracked up to be. There are some tough away games, but some very winnable home games. Draws aren’t negative and as long as the club doesn’t take L’s in a chunk of those away games then we will be fine in the table.
Being a supporter is not for you mate nor is this site.
I would recommend tennis as your primary interest. If you really must stick to this seemingly arduous task of following Liverpool keep your thoughts to Twitter mate. ;)
The last paragraph of your post is what you wanted to say at the very beginning.
You just wanted to have a go at Brendan again.
What better way to do that than absolutely slate our new player….
What bile….
All of the stats you mention are with other football teams…
How are they relevant?
Suarez raised his stats in 3 years at Liverpool far and above his stats at Ajax.
So if Benteke does the same then we will have a real good player on our hands.
Some people can’t get over the fact we were so poor last year….
As if there was no reason for it….
We lost one of the best players in the world at the same time we came very close to winning the league….
That leaves a hangover…..
That’s not being an apologist its being a realist.
As soon as we lost the league I knew the season just gone would be a massive struggle…..
Psychologically this season the team, especially with a few of the old guard leaving, will have a much fresher attitude about things.
I think we will do well this year.
I’ll go a long way to find a sadder post on the Internet.
Every comment I see from Leanne is a negative and spiteful response to something.
Have a day off!
Leanne,
You obviously ONLY spent a couple of minutes researching “stats”, which do not tell the whole story. If you uncover the reason for some of the stats, you might see that they can be very deceiving.
First, you stated that 52% of his goals are from headers or penalties. My first rebuttal to that is that 48% of his goals are not scored from headers or penalties. That’s nearly 50/50 headers to non headeers for a physically dominant striker that you would expect to see lots of goals from headers. And as someone else stated, I don’t care what part of his body he puts it in the net with, the fact is that he puts them in the back of the net. Look at his 3 goals against us in the above video and tell me he’s not class? That back heel was outrageous. That’s not the only time I’ve seen him do that either. He’s actually quite clever.
Your next stat was his injuries. He suffered a ruptured achilles, which is a freak injury, and one that took something like 8 months to heal, but once fully healed is not prone to re-injury. His other lengthy injury was a hip-flexor injury, out for 6 weeks. Neither of these are quite like Daniel Sturridge’s chronic muscle tears, which ARE a source for worry.
Your next stat was his “caught offsides” stat. He will have gotten a lot of those from Villa immediately playing a long-ball back to him when he hadn’t recovered his position yet. Another source might be the player giving the pass not seeing it soon enough and delivering it on time, something I think our midfield won’t have problems with. Again, not an indicator of laziness, as you imply.
Next is his passing accuracy. Of course that is going to suffer when he his used as an outlet for a packed defense. This is a product of him getting the ball early, before support arrives, and not having anyone to pass to. It’s NOT an indicator that he can’t see or deliver a pass.
The last thing you touched on was his pressing off the ball. Villa never employed a press and he was not expected to press. He will be expected to press in this Liverpool side, and is more than capable according to people who have seen a lot of him play with Belgium.
I, for one am excited about this signing and I think it will turn out to be a masterstroke. He’s got a complete game, and you can either get on board with it or not. The signing is complete, and he deserves a full chance from all the supporters. He is a Liverpool player after all.
Was he asked to play a pressing role at Villa? Not sure that was part of the general style of play there, but if he was – and he didn’t, he would have been hauled off every game for not playing to instruction!
I know this is only a small part of the many things we’ve ALL decided he simply can’t do (God only knows how he’s got this far) but he’s got decent pace and prescence for a big man which surely would allow him to play the press when required to.
A certain big name Italian didn’t get much game time this year for not wanting or having the ability, to play as required by the manager.
Let’s see how he goes before firing off judgement eh?
ever the optimist eh?
But if Lacazette (better than Benteke and more suited to the way Coutinho, Firmino, Markovic, Lallana etc play) goes for £40m or under and we didn’t go for him then any Liverpool supporter who knows football will be utterly mystified.
Bingo!! But it seems he’s staying at Lyon this season. Playing for his home team in CL, like I thought might happen. If we finish top 4 this season we definitely should be in for him next summer!
Since he joined Villa he’s been the 4th highest scorer in the prem (after Aguero, Van Persie and Suarez). Scored more than Rooney in the same period. At Villa.
And the money … Everton spent £27m on Lukaku. Who else would the sceptics have us buy for the money?
I was sceptical at first, but I’ve gotten on board with it. I think he’s a decent purchase and I’m hoping he’ll become a huge player for LFC.
We all hope he’ll become huge for us, otherwise whats the point?
But we all hoped Carroll would be huge for us too. We all hope every signing we make will be a stroke of genius.
But some of us have an ability to separate fact from fiction and form opinions based on evidence that are not always incredibly optimistic about how things will go. And just as most of us were right about Carroll, so most us will be right about Benteke.
To be fair, Benteke is not another Andy Carroll. Anyone trying to tell you this is using overly simplistic logic. I have hope for Benteke, rather than disdain and I’ll tell you why.
Usually when there is a sheep mentality that is festering in a community where over 90% can claim to know the future, they turn out to be wrong.
When I read your comments Chris, sorry, Leanne, I often wonder “what’s the point”, what’s the point of coming on to a website you clearly don’t enjoy…
Bring back Crazy Bob!
Yeah, Crazy bob was the best incarnation of the three. At least he was mildly amusing at times (emphasis on mildly though).
Well done Leanne you have successfully proved you haven’t got a football brain at all by the fact u only mention facts ignoring the main stat of 1 in 2 goals per game. You sound like th biggest tool on the planet yet you seem to class yourself high and mighty
What ever you look at is irrevelent as he’s a villa player playing in that type of team like a Liverpool defender will have better stats than a villa defender regardless of ability. Stats have got to be used in the right way and this is where you have gone off the beaten track a bit. You have used all that’s bad to prove your point the same as some fans using the opposite of that to prove his worth.
The underlying fact is his actual attributes and how his manager feels he can use them. Player are about attributes not stats.
He’s quicker off the line than the average player and has the power to make the difference to. As a large man myself u got to be a good bit quicker than me to get around me as to close I will knock u off the ball.
So Leanne I beg of you come back with more than stats that suit your argument and making out that it’s fact a player is about everything bit a selection of stats that suit your prediction because at the moment you’re coming accross as an idiot with a negative agenda and someone building up to an I told you so.
when you speak of ‘us’ are you referring to the hundreds on here who agree with your every word or just the voices in your head?
Here is a Benteke commentary from a Villa supporter that attempts to debunk some of the misconceptions. Its just food for thought.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/3bjl5z/clearing_up_some_misconceptions_surrounding/
Is it any wonder our fans have the reputation as being the thickest and most deluded in the league? Is it any wonder we get the piss taken out of us so much by people always saying “I suppose you think this is your year again ha ha?”
When you see comments that say “the truth is just a lame excuse” (wow – what way do you live your life – how the fuck can the truth ever be a lame excuse for anything ever?) and so many so keen to just ignore FACTS on a player because he now happens to play for Liverpool, you cannot blame mancs and rest for taking the piss.
Poster above me is right. This site isnt for me. Its anti-intellectual and the spin put on most articles puts me in mind of Fox News and Sean Hannity.
And most of the posters remind me of creationists in the deep south. Put as much evidence, truth, facts and stats in front of them and it still won’t matter – they will continue along their deluded path and think you the devil for trying to get them to wise up to what is reality and what is wishful thinking.
I’ll make sure to come back when we’re 10th in November so everyone can tell me Benteke has been sensational and Rodgers is still doing a magnificent job.
The only thing that offers a bit of hope is the first 17 minutes of this: http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2015/05/podcast-shameful/
Every now and again, before they allow themselves to be deluded all over again (its more “fun” that way), reason and common sense strike individuals like a bolt out of the blue. I trust it won’t take a full season for a similar podcast this time around.
Its not really about intellect or reality or whatever. We can all see what could go wrong, you honestly think that people (like me) who say Benteke really could work haven’t realised that Benteke really could fail? We know. But thats the thing, we’re willing to think about the bad that could happen AND the good which results in us refusing to come to a Liverpool forumn to be poisonously negative about itl, all the time.
I can’t stand it when people come on to a site to tell others they are plastic/fickle fans because they think everyone should be as okay with losing 6-1 to Stoke as they are. But the reaction I’ve seen to the Benteke transfer is appalling. Its like Liverpool fans became a mob of people who just couldn’t think of anything but the negative the moment Benteke was linked. The behaviour has been over the top and out of order.
I was speaking to a friend on Friday about Benteke and he said ” You think he’s better than Bony?, cos I think Bony is way better”, just a year ago, the same shit he is talking now about Benteke he was talking then about Bony. People just get carried away with their negativity and I don’t mean it as an insult when I say it becomes poisonous, it really does.
Want to know why I actually think Benteke will be a positive?
Sheep mentality. When 90% of a community can claim to know the future, they usually turn out wrong. The pasture can be so comforting though.
I’ve seen so much fear and concern with Benteke that I have a feeling that the intangibles will go in Benteke’s favor in this case.
Leanne, your comment about ‘creationists in the south’ exposes you as an American soccer fan. You have a vastly inflated opinion of your intellect and your sole ownership of ‘the truth’. And as Jon rightfully pointed out, your last paragraph is really the point of all your posts and the agenda you pound everybody with.
You’re a Rodgers hater, hating for the sake of it. You would indeed be better off somewhere else — perhaps following the MLS and commenting on American soccer forums, rather than spewing bile and pessimistic negativity in the faces of Liverpool fans.
And really what is the point? If you’re so convinced LFC will fail, do us all a favour and go support the club you feel so certain will win. Fans who are bent on undermining our great Club are not needed or wanted — just like players who don’t want to play in a Red shirt, we’re glad to see the back of them.
You won’t be missed, anyway I doubt people come on TAW just to read your post, so all the best :-)
We’re all talking Benteke at Aston-bloody-Villa and trying to transpose it all to Liverpool by using stats that are taken in isolation, so I’m going to throw a few things out there for a bit of context.
1. Benteke actually has a better defensive contribution than Daniel Sturridge, while playing in a team that basically does not press. At all. Liverpool ranked third for pressing, Villa bottom third.
2. Aston Villa ranked 14th for chances created by crosses per game in the Premier League last year. 14TH. That’s 2.2 per game compared to Liverpool’s 2.
3. Benteke scores as many goals with his weaker foot as he does with his head, both at 0.1 per 90 last year.
4. He had total of 0.4 goals per 90 in a team that had the second worst chance creation in the league, moving to a team who were the fourth best for creating.
Remind me, why the pessimism?
All the context actually points to Benteke improving his output at Liverpool and his output was pretty damned impressive at the back end of last season, by anyone’s standards.
Added to that the fact that most strikers tend to peak between 25 and 27 (big guys later, usually) and I think we have reasons for genuine optimism.
But it’s all too easy to be negative, isn’t it?
TBH, I, and I am sure a lot of LFC fans will agree, am just glad he’s not going to be playing against us. That should be the only stat that matters. That we feared him so much when he played for Villa speaks volumes in his favour. Leanne, if you are going to come on here and risk looking like a dick so you can have a go at the fella, or the manager, also speaks volumes. Why don’t you do what every other sane fan is going to do, wait and see what happens?
At the very least he will – possibly – stop us wasting corners.
I am going to stick up for Leanne/Chris Mc here because I am a bit baffled as to why everyone seems to be ganging up on him for expressing what might be a contrary view to their own. All the more so since such a large cross section of fans has also at various points, expressed legitimate reservations about the Benteke link from the moment that it first surfaced.
We have a fan base stretching from Bootle to Jakarta so why this expectation that everyone should hold similar views or express them in some uniform way? This recurring refrain of labelling fans who are of a more critical disposition as ‘moaners’ ‘bilious’ ‘trollers’ or whatever is beyond tedious. There are plenty of posters who could be termed blindly optimistic or fall into the ‘super fan’ variety but I don’t see many people ganging up on them for being ‘sycophants, apologists or whatever adjective or noun you prefer. Fans will always have different opinions, that comes with the territory of having such a diverse fan base and forums like these to express those views on. We’re all supporters and we express that support in different ways; for some it is looking past their doubts and backing the steps the club takes for what they perceive as the greater good and for others no good can be achieved in giving blind/intellectually dishonest support to steps which they consider will be detrimental for the club. Both want what is best for the club just through different approaches. Questioning the latter group’s loyalty like some have is petty, moronic and obtuse.
I get that people might say Leanne/Chris has an anti BR agenda or that his posts are consistently negative or that he expresses his views more stridently than some others would. But so what? As long as someone isn’t making bald statements with no argument to back them up I don’t see what the problem is. His posts are virtually always pithy, well articulated and logical. You may not agree with them or consider them selective but instead of descending into name-calling and launching personal attacks why not just respond to the points like some of the posters have? It might be stating the obvious but it needs to be said as it seems to be lost here – contrasting opinions make for a more interesting discussion as opposed to everyone just chiming in with each other; I thought the exchange between Leanne/Chris and Brownie (who I agreed with) on the Sterling sale was a great read. And amongst all the accusations of unwarranted negativity it should also be acknowledged that Chris/Leanne has got things right too. He called our post-January purple patch for what it was when no one else, myself included saw it that way. The same accusations of blinkered negativity were levelled at him then too but it turned out he was right and many of us reached the same view a few months later.
Finally, one of the good things about TAW is that the contributors are not as thin-skinned as some on other sites (TomkinTimes/RAWK and don’t even get me started on that Jamie Kanwer guy). This forum caters for different views so please can we keep it that way. Let’s not assume the roles of internet vigilantes, hounding people out with personal attacks. Let’s show a bit of tolerance for a different view even if it is considered to be unrelenting. In response to one of the comments, I do actually enjoy reading Chris/Leanne’s posts and think it would be a shame if he stopped posting.
Hi Omar,
For me its not the content of the post as everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Its the arrogance, that as I believe Ellie stated earlier – that one individual owns the truth – that there is only one narrative that is right. The stupidity involved in suggesting that anyone with a contrary view to that “truth” is either deluded,a cretin and is of a lesser intellect.
Oh, and that stat bound analysis with no actual context. Those stats are used by the analysts at the clubs as part of a whole package and are not regarded as idols that must be obeyed. To suggest that other people are reductionist when stats are the primary evidence – how using the stats alongside the DVDs for a bit of context – then factor in the mental state of the player etc
Cheers.
Omar, your defence is commendable, but over many months and many comment threads I have never seen Leanne say anything positive about any subject related to Liverpool Football Club. It is a pattern of behaviour that seems intended deliberately to create division. It discourages more reasonable people from posting. Our fan base needs less divisiveness, not more.
If people like Leanne hate the manager, hate the players, hate the incoming targets before they’ve even pulled on the shirt, hate the owners, hate everything about the club, then what does being a ‘supporter’ actually mean? It means nothing. Forums like this one are being used by angry, bitter people to vent their spleen under an alias. The only way to confront that is to speak up against it.
What is interesting is that people are being labelled as stupid confederate religious zealots and yet here is someone who makes all of his opinions from a pack of Top Trumps. Football doesn’t work like Top Trumps or FIFA Soccer, Leanne. You cannot base your entire opinion on football stats alone.
I remember being pretty underwhelmed by Torres’ stats before he arrived at Liverpool, but you’re aware when footballers are moving to a better club that they are going to get a lot more opportunities. Similarly, Crouch’s record at Liverpool was pretty good on paper, but it’s ignoring the 50 nailed-on chances he missed.
My advice to Leanne is to get away from the computer for a while, lay off the caffeine and maybe get some fresh air.
I think all people are saying is that, if someone has been banging them away at a club that doesn’t create many chances, then he could well work at a club that creates 30 chances/game and doesn’t have anyone to finish them.
It’s not rocket science, but nor is it worth fighting about.