ROB GUTMANN was joined by Gareth Roberts, Paul Senior and Adam Smith for this week’s unwrapped as they delve into what exactly has gone wrong for Brendan Rodgers over the last month.
Is he a busted flush, should Liverpool be looking to replace him even now, are the next 6 games the key to his future at Liverpool Football Club?
Don’t think it’s fair to criticize FSG for apparently not putting money where their mouth is, they have invested 300 million or thereabouts (not net spend, but still that gross spending is a lot of money) in the squad for 5 seasons. We have just wasted so much of it
They were so generous that they were giving Downing 80k per week, Stewart fucking Downing.
Tbh the TC is a product of them getting burnt by Comolli’s fraudence
I don’t understand how we can exempt Rodgers from any blame because “people don’t like him” like Adam Smith keeps saying while putting the heat on FSG, a month ago he said Lovren would be more well liked if not for the way he looks, now that’s just getting ridiculous
I think you always boil it down to people who loved Rodgers straight off or those that didnt.
I think there is a 3rd lot, which I am one, which gave him slack but over time are very worried by his decisions, pontifications, tactical changing, blanking of many players etc etc.
And this stuff of average position etc is a great kop out for Rodgers. So your saying we should expect to be at best 5th every year??
“Expect”, yes. We should hope for something different and strive for something even better than that. But yes, 5th is the realistic expectation.
Check what the bookies say at the end of this season, whether Klopp, Rodgers or Pardew is in charge.
I hate this bollocks coming out, mostly from those that have defended Rodgers over this last season as they know their position is becoming increasingly ridiculous given the evidence on display and Rodgers decisions. Things like:
“We have the 5th highest wagebill so we should be finishing 5th.”
“Our average league position in the 5 years before Brendan was 6th.”
“Our average points in those 5 years was 62.”
Yea so lets just forget all about Hicks & Gillette & lets forget that 3 managers were SACKED for those league placings. Lets forget that in every league in the world teams with lesser wagebills finish higher & win titles against those with bigger wagebills.
Why should only slightly better, 5th & about 70 points, be acceptable? If the argument is that we should be finishing 5th and thats all Rodgers achieves, why the fuck be happy with that? Why be fine with a manager who delivers par? Why be happy with average? Especially when you have proven managers out there available?
What I hate are these appeals to emotion from people who view those of us in the reality-based community as somehow less-worthy fans of the club. If you don’t trot out meaningless crap like “we are Liverpool and we’re not happy with average” you’re somehow lacking in aspiration and “settling” for second-rate. If you don’t want to drum out the manager after he delivered our best showing in 20-odd years just last year and looks set to manage us to the position most bookies thought we’d finish this year, then you’re “fine with par”.
It’s utter, utter bullshit.
Brownie, no-one appeals more to emotion and sentiment than you. You won’t have a word said about Gerrard or Rodgers. Weren’t you posting ‘we’re not that sort of club’ the other day? What sort of club is that? One that fires loyal servants and hangs players out to dry is the answer.
For what it’s worth, I agree you about there being a hardcore of supporters who have been waiting for Rodgers to fail, and I’ve little time for them. But I can see how he’s alienated his own supporters and those neutrals by constantly deflecting criticism whilst briefing the media and taking the acclaim when things go well. Having said all that, I still like him, I just think Klopp has a better record and, as the guys on the show mentioned, this could be a unique opportunity.
FSG would be negligent were they not to put feelers out to Klopp. I wouldn’t be surprised if its a done deal tbh.
Respectfully, that’s a crock. Appealing to emotion re Gerrard would be talk about his iconic status, service to the club, etc. and suggest he be picked on that basis. I’ve never done that. I’ve provided my arguments for when I thought Gerrard should play (and not play – I agreed with you months back that if we played just one up front then Gerrard in a deep-lying role was pointless) and others have engaged with that. That’s what this place is for. Admittedly, I’ve done that a lot, but then I’ve felt some of the criticism has been insanely OTT (see Sunday when from a front three position he’s still responsible for our 4 man midfield not getting a kick). Whatever, those arguments have had nothing to do with appeals to emotion.
Likewise with Rodgers. I couldn’t frame an emotion-based argument in favour of Rodgers even if I wanted to, as I don’t feel any emotional attachment to the guy. He hasn’t been here long enough. My main point on Rodgers is that I think the performance last season and problems he’s faced this season (admittedly some of his own making) mean he’s earned a shot at another season. I also don’t see any merit (or statistical advantage) in following the Spurs path of changing managers at the drop of the hat in a pursuit of the top four. These could all be shit arguments, but they’re bugger all to do with emotion.
You may have noticed I’ve hardly discussed the Rodgers situation with you. That’s because I think your position – whilst not quite agreeing with is – is perfectly logical and sincere. You believe Klopp represents an upgrade and we should therefore try to get him. Not necessarily a reflection on Rodgers, just common-sense (at least as you see it). I don’t think there’s a lot to criticize there, personally, just as Gareth’s arguments in the pod are perfectly rational and sensible and fair.. My issue is with the one-eyed Rodgers haters who constantly understate his achievements and overstate his faults (and do the opposite with Klopp). You and Gareth both show that it’s possible to present a solid argument for replacing Rodgers with Klopp that doesn’t lapse into spite and bile. Why that’s beyond others I don’t know, but it’s something up with which I will not put. It’s a dirty job, etc..
BTW, I’ll admit I’m now starting to get vibes that this may be about to happen. I think Gareth’s right that the next 6 games will probably determine Rodgers’ fate. Rodgers better hope Chelsea get at least a draw at Arsenal at the weekend, as that would leave them just needing 2 more points for the title, and with their next two games relatively straightforward (Leicester away and Palace home) that should mean they are champions by the time they play us. So we’ll go to the Bridge with them (hopefully) stuck in 3rd gear. If that’s the case, Rodgers may just garner enough points to save his skin.
No fifth isn’t good enough and we haven’t been good enough this season. But I have faith that Rodgers can turn it around and he should be given time as he brought us to second playing the best football we have seen in over twenty years. If he flips next season then yes get rid but let’s hope he can get it right and have faith
Do We have to like a Mgr to trust Him?
Is Klopp’s European experience more valuable than Rogers Prem experience?
Is Bundesliga less of a challenge?, pretty much only have to beat one club, Bayern.
Is coming 4th/5th equivalent to 2nd in Bundes?
Would Klopp want to manage at another club in Liverpool, who are competing against richer clubs?
Would Klopp hit the gound running?
Do We have the patience for another project to bear fruit?
Klopp seems a strong personality, not a yes man, would he fit with FSG?
He seems a bit of a maverick, likes Thrash/ Heavy Metal ( I like this about him, a lot of native Germans also like it) wears a baseball cap (FSG will like that about him) but will Liverpool fans? especially if it takes a while to get going.
Currently I still trust Rogers and would back him completely, However Klopp may be available.
A German Revolution at Liverpool lead by Emre Can with German flags on the K(l)op and the best German talent pitching up at Melwood, would be great and very hip.
Didi back at the club too.
No, but liking him would be a bonus. The manager not being a silly cunt who says ridiculous things is always a positive.
Yes it is. European football and LFC go hand in hand.
Theres that myth again. Perpetuated constantly by the ignorant. “Only one club to beat.” Beginning to get on my tits. Dortmund were skint & relegation threatened when Klopp took over & there are 4 other clubs outside Munich (schalke reached a UCL semis) who are equal to the size of or bigger than Dortmund.
2nd in Germany beats 5th in England. 2nd in Germany is slightly better than 4th in england. 2nd in Germany is slightly less than 3rd in England.
Lets hope FSG ask him.
Given what happened at Dortmund I’d say its likely.
With a proven winner at the helm? Fuck yes.
FSG don’t want yes men. They are not the previous american owners. They took Rodgers, who has no name and won fuck all, and let him demand that he wouldnt work under a DOF. Rodgers isnt a yes man and if he was, why would you want him as our manager? Yes men are vile creatures. FSG want winning football and exciting football. Klopp delivers both.
He’s the type of man we lap up. Charismatic, doesn’t give a fuck what anyone bar his club thinks, anti establishment to the core. Yea, i think we’d love him.
Im only 90 seconds in.
“I think we got too carried away with a decent run in the middle of the season”
No. Sorry. Unless you mean TAW contributors, you can keep the “we” – only myopic morons with no ounce of objectivity or a sprinkling of sense got carried away with 13 undefeated against mostly shit teams, that included displays like in the 0-0 vs Everton and 2-2 at home to Leicester. (Funny how that run is now being described as “decent” when at the time it was being described as “stunning” etc etc)
I said it on here in January but just like in September when I saw what was coming very few wanted to know. Everyone was too busy looking at a switch to 3-4-3, looking at results & hailing the manager as the second coming, instead of realising who we were playing, how we were playing, how little we were creating & how a lot of the goals we were winning games with were worldies, flukes or opposition keeper errors, which was in no way sustainable. Thats what I said & so it’s proved.
Care to take it down a level, mate? There’s disagreeing and then there’s needless hostility. It’s tiring to read.
He’s available for birthdays, weddings and bar mitzvahs.
Well aren’t you fucking great, mate? Agree with other comments, tone it down a bit, eh? Make the points, fine, but just no need for some of the rest.
I thought the subject of Rodgers’ future was discussed sensibly , in the pod, and with sensitivity. Rob did a good job of chairing the debate and asked some interesting questions.
I think most of us can agree that it would be desperately sad if Rodgers is replaced, even if it is the correct decision. He is a good man, with a great deal of talent and there is no way that he has let himself or us down.
We really have to be utterly ruthless with this decision though. Planetary-alignment is a good analogy of the situation we find ourselves in.
It made me think of playing Knight Lore on the ZX Spectrum 30 years ago, in the pink room with the floating ball and the moving platform-cube.
With just 48k of RAM at its disposal, the computer would go into a fit of lag as it tried to deal with the various active sprites.
The seasoned-player had time to run downstairs and grab a glass of Um Bongo, arriving back just in time to make the man/wolf jump at the correct point and glide over the spikes towards the raised door-arch.
Pressing the joystick-button too early, or too late, saw our hero face a perforated death, but this was preferable to waiting for the ball and the platform to both be in the right place again.
None of that rubbish will mean a great deal, to anybody under the age of 40. If we are going to make another leap into the unknown though, now is probably the right time to do it.
Couldn’t agree more with your first two paragraphs. You lost me after that….
Haha, well in the unlikely event of you having nothing better to do than seeking enlightenment on ground-breaking three-dimensional cassette-loading computer games from the mid-80s, then both Google and YouTube are your friends!
I cannot guarantee that the comparison will make anymore sense though, Paul.
I had a feckin’ VIC 20. That represents child abuse in the 80s.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Barca win la liga and the CL, Ancelloti gets the boot and Klopp goes to Real; then City decide to ditch Pellegrini and take a punt on a promising, young, British, won-nothing manager and Rodgers tells LFC to ‘kiss it’ as he heads down the M62?
Cue Ian Ayre and FSG scrambling around for Roberto Martinez’s mobile number…again.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it ended up a bit like that Brownie. I think Carlo’s safe for now, he’s keeping the seat warm for Zidane. Klopp would be a good fit for us and Brendan would be a good fit for City: I’d wish him well (but not too well) if he took the job. Whatever happens, I don’t want to see him leave under a cloud. He’s given us some magical times and has never let us down in any meaningful way.
Talking of ‘that sort of club’ , Real Madrid are quite, quite mad, aren’t they? Just what type of manager would please the chairman? They say history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. Sacking Carlo, surely the perfect RM manager: successful, urbane, modest, would be he latter. That’s the one thing I didn’t really agree with the lads about: Carlo would do a great job here. He’d do a great job anywhere. He’s a great organizer, he cut his teeth in Italian football, I think people forget that sometimes.
Klopp’s coming down in price all the time. Now at sixes to be next Liverpool manager. I think my excitement at seeing him come shorter hints to me which side my bread is buttered.
Luxury! I had a ball made of rags and I were happy.
I agree that Klopp’s profile means he would be a perfect fit for LFC, but one of the main reasons I’m not advocating a change is that I actually think the job at Liverpool is borderline impossible, and about the only way you stand a chance of being successful is to pick your manager and back him to the hilt with a minimum 5 year window to build something special. I appreciate that isn’t the way modern football works, but it’s the only way I see us winning what Rob correctly identified as an “unfair game”. With the resources of the other clubs, it’s nothing short of a miracle if a LFC or Spurs break the top 4 monopoly. Spurs have gone through 7 mangers in 8 years and we could be about to get our 5th in 7. That’s 11 managers in the last 8 years between us and they have 2 top 4 to show for it and we have 1. And it took us having the best player in the world to even come close to a title.
Unless something drastic changes, I only see the challenge getting bigger. It’s a self-perpetuating truth: the more times you make the top 4, the more times you are likely to make the top 4 again (money, attracting the better players), and consequently the harder it is for someone else to breach the top four. A virtuous circle…if you’re in it! That’s why a club like Arsenal, with all the ups and downs they’ve had, can point to a 16 year run in the CL. As we saw in the summer transfer window, even making the CL now and again doesn’t cut it, not when one of City/Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea want your player.
Put a gun to my head and I say we don’t win the title for the next 25 years and it doesn’t matter who the manager is. Making the top 4 once every 4 or 5 years would be over-achievement. It’s depressing, but short of a sheikh that’s what we’re facing.
Notwithstanding my support for Rodgers, if Klopp comes it would be fantastic for our club. But only because I think we’d have a ton of fun, and not because I think it gives us any realistic chance to come out on top of the pile.
My God you’re a pessimist Brownie! Why do you even support the team if not for the romance? A great manager/player can make all the difference. Look (and I know I’m undermining my argument here) how close we came last season! Change is afoot, FFP, the new TV deal, the decline in standards in the Premier League. The world’s changing all the time, we have to stay positive. Believe! (If this all sounds slightly desperate, that’s because it is :-) I’d like to return to the UK but can’t see it happening if Cameron wins).
Appreciate your measured response earlier btw.
As for you Robin, what did I tell you?
Well, in fairness Paul, my point was never against Klopp. From the snippets I’ve seen he seems dead sound. It was that he won’t be interested in us. I’ll be honest, this ‘Unwrapped’ has completely changed my mind to the extent nothing else makes sense for any of the parties. I’ve no time for European football so prior to this week my knowledge of him was minimal but he’d be a fool to go to City over us. I really want it to happen now (this is why my mates call me ‘the wind’). My feeling is City have tied him up already. I think they may have put a project to him that appealed. I think we’ll see a change over the next few years in how City do things. I hope I’m wrong though.
More of Daley Thompson’s Hyper Olympics and Pyjamarama man myself. The former gave me and my mate (the kid whose parents could actually afford the ZX) blisters. Had to play with bandages around our hands!
This season was all about strikers. It’s difficult to lay the blame at the door of Rodgers, Ayre, The Committee or FSG because it’s undeniable that they’re all to blame.
If you’re gonna buy into FSG you have to buy into FFP and accept the rules and accept we’re aiming for a sustainable long term model that will out perform the others. The problem for me, with that, is that every aspect of life is regulated and in every situation the people with money find a way for it to have influence. Does anyone think David Luiz is worth £50m? So, maybe this plan is a bit never never. Maybe, even, FFP will collapse to an extent. Maybe it’ll come off. However, this is what we have.
My point, which I’ve actually forgotten, was something like you can’t blame Rodgers. He’s got no strikers and that’s where all the disjointedness at the club shows. We haven’t been shy to spend good amounts on keeper, defenders or midfielders but we’re not doing it in the most important part of the game. Obviously, not being in the know there’s that argument ‘are top players turning down our club due to it’s current status even though we made excellent offers’? The answer is in the middle. Yeah, to a degree they are but then we certainly don’t make excellent offers. What kind of back up plan did we have last summer? It failed massively whatever it was.
I’m sure our offer played a part in any striker dealings not coming off but we all heard the story on here last week that Wenger went to see Sanchez and I’m guessing we sent Ayre. Again, a complete failure and lack of understanding of human emotion. I’m sure Sanchez loved hearing that if spreadsheet cell A5 >3 while B2 > 6 then you’ll get a bonus of C4’s sum divided by 2.8. I bet that really sold it. Meanwhile, Wenger was telling him about the amazing seafood down the Chilean restaurant in Angel and how his postman is from Santiago. It’s backed up by Melissa in the podcast. Markovic is homesick. Humans not machines. Everything seems a bit too calculated.
Then there’s the strikers we scout. We don’t actually know who they are / were but we do know we’re not signing them. So, what are they doing all day? It’d take me 5 minutes to find a decent striker on Google. Maybe their software has a bug in it and it keeps rejecting all the good strikers we flag. Either way, it seems an amazing way to scout players. Either it comes off and we’re geniuses or it doesn’t and we look incredibly fuckin stupid.
Then Brendan. The whole Mario thing. Slating him in public or perhaps being ‘snide’ is a better word, leaving him on the bench and basically fuckin with his fragile head (which is fine if that’s what he wants to do) but to ask him to then come and get us out the shit is a bit rich. Fair play to the lad, he tried for us.
Then the players, the Sturridge injury, the Sterling fiasco, Borini not going, Remy not coming, Lambert and the fairytale, do we recall Origi? Wrong systems for wrong stikers and the hell that resulted.
Apologies, but I’ve remembered my point. This season has just been one big striker farce from start to finish and it permeates every aspect of the club from the owners, to the manager, to the MD, to The Committee to the players. Last season when strikers was the last thing we had to worry about it was fine.
Regarding Rodgers, I think he’s had his hands tied to add to his own short comings. My feeling for the past 6 months has been – who is there out there who could do better in those conditions. Well, this week and particularly this podcast has got me really keen on the idea of Klopp. I like what Gareth said about the club’s leader needing to be like a political figure. I try not to be superficial but sometimes I can’t help it. There’s a feeling I get that worries me. When I look at Brendan on the line I get flashbacks to school. There was a lad that if we were in America we’d probably call a nerd, thank god we’re not. He used to stand in the yard in his school uniform and be jotting down notes constantly. We weren’t privy to those notes and we assumed this lad was a cross between Einstein and Morrissey but one day we grabbed his book. It turned out it was just the scribblings of a mad kid. There was no substance just a lad who didn’t fit in. I’m sure it’s nothing more than Brendan wearing the same blazer and tie as our school did that trigger those images but it rings alarm bells in my superficial mind
I feel momentum ground to a halt in the early part of the season but we got it started and it spluttered a bit and then ran smooth and now it’s broke down again. I don’t know whether it’s seized or it’s just out of fuel but if I phone the AA and Jurgen Klopp turns up then you’re confident it’s gonna be a pair of womens tights and a bit of WD40 and you’re on your way.
I don’t know what I think. I’m just gonna see what happens.
I posted it at the time, simply to fail to address the striker/ goals issue in Jan was short sighted/ negligent, banking on Sturridge to be fully match fit and injury free and a 20 year old not natural finisher whose played too much football already was too much of a gamble.
I would of liked to have seen Berahino although his agent is Aidy Ward, I understand why not, considering Origi in next season, so why didn’t try for Defoe, he knows how to score and am sure would of chosen LFC over Sunderland.
If if it wasn’t for some worldies Liverpool could well have been below par, how many times have we created clear cut chances such as the one Sterling missed v Newcastle this season, not many.
So Brendan was hung out to dry and here we are, the Balotelli is a seperate issue, I suspect He doesn’t perform in training and therefore does not have BR’s trust. When Rickie joined him for last 10/15 of Hull game worked well together.
We asking our Mgr to get top 4 with a strike force of Fabio, Mario and Rickie, I like all of em, but it is a big ask.
I think I agree with you mate. When you put it like that, top 4’s difficult.
I was trying to point out (after a few smokes) that the whole chain is wrong. The owners aren’t putting the money up for decent strikers. We’ve got a computer scouting them, a guy who should be confined to the corporate side trying to tempt them and then a manager who fucks with their head if we do get them, And we wonder why they’re all shit and on gas.
5 years ago I’d have taken Defoe but he’s no better than Lambert. Berahino’s an interesting one. He’s been my choice for a while. I’d be happy with him as 3rd choice striker although, like you say, we may have a problem getting him and if we did he’d be our 2nd choice. I’ve watched him and it seems he’d suit our play but I’ve got it in my head we need better now.
Great show. Thought provoking. Really enjoyed
I heard for a lad very much ITK that following Rob Gutman’s latest performance in the chair that the Question Time and Newsnight producers are looking to make Rob their star signing over the summer, this is the real reason why all those studios were built in Manchester. Most fans don’t see the Anfield Wrap as a selling club, not after there new pay wall arrives. Unofficial reports claimed that Knox_harrington was speechless at the possibility of Gutman leapfrogging his way into the political hot seat, other listners claimed that it was impossible for Neil to be speechless or that’s how it sounds.
Bit tense all this footy stuff can we lighten it up a bit it’s a long time until AUGUST
Haha,
I’m stood down mate. Sunday was the nail in my coffin for my season. I feel a calmness now.
In re: strikers and goals
After it became obvious that Sturridge would be facing a prolonged period out with injury, what was BR’s approach to working with the remaining strikers he had available?
What exactly was the problem with using Borini regularly by himself or partnered with Balotelli or Lambert? Has BR shown us that he can get the best out of the available personnel?
How is it acceptable to end up with Sterling as CF or Coutinho as false 9 with Balotelli, Borini, and Lambert (or 2 out of 3, invariably the latter 2) fit and available?
Much is being made of the poor per 90 min goal return of our strikers and how that is an extenuating circumstance for Rodgers. I’m not sure I can accept that. It’s not as if the players BR has been selecting players and formations based on goal-scoring prowess. Sterling has scored some great goals but he’s squandered some gimmes as well.
I wonder about the extent to which Rogers has made us believe he is one of us. Rafa, even with his funny accent, made us believe he is one of us. But does Rogers?
Although Rogers is on record as saying Liverpool is a destination, not a stepping stone, I suspect a portion of the fanbase see Rogers as a career manager for whom other destinations would have suited just as well.
the whole “I’d die for this club” from day one was a bit over the top ( for me anyhow) and it’s never really died down from there. He does like that line too
Probably the best Unwrapped yet, well done guys.