NEIL ATKINSON was joined by John Gibbons, Melissa Reddy and Gareth Roberts after Liverpool’s FA Cup semi-final defeat at the hands of Aston Villa.
They discuss what went wrong, the problems on and off the pitch that the Reds failed to address and how Brendan Rodgers men were out-fought and out-thought by Tim Sherwood’s side.
I am not at all on board with Melissa Reddy’s analysis of Markovic. Wide of the mark.
Markovic plays to the manager’s instructions and the tactics. If he plays the ball back (just as any other player, save for the only actual winger who’s been deployed as RWB), it’s because that’s the indicated move.
It is absurd to absolve Gerrard and Henderson and Can from responsibility for the fact that Villa got “joy” on our right flank and to pile it on Markovic. It makes no sense whatsoever to claim that it was a choice between yanking Markovic and yanking Can. Yanking Gerrard might also have been an option. Playing a proper right back at right back after the switch might have been an option.
Yanking Markovic has been Rodgers’ go-to move and it has NOTHING to do with any nonsense about him not performing well. It’s all to do with Rodgers being a weak man.
Gerrard discussion everything wrong with LFC since 2010
He has not done enough, Paisley would turn in his grave at all this sentimental shite. Mike Nevin says about Kenny in the later years, and he is bang on, Kenny was slow but his mind was quick and he played at No 7 for 17 years.
For me Stevie has blown his legacy by staying far too long and this is no knee jerk. Andy Fucking Gray said SG best position was CM and as usual Andy Gray is fucking wrong, Xabi Alonso was a CM and even he is making costly mistakes.
Sky sports have needed SG far more than LFC because it plays out in their media and because many people are sheep they follow, romance in football very rarely exists.
Players get old and loose pace, SG was never an intelligent player, robust, forceful, a British No 10 up there with Zidane and Messi, but mentally and physically you cannot expect him to do that 17 years on.
We laughted at Beckham because only he thought he was a CM, Sven and the media indulged Beckham because it was a good story, Fergie got rid bought Ronaldo, Becks won Fuck All at Madid, Macca won two leagues and two CL and is a Madrid legend but you would never know that if you listen to Sky or even BT Sport, no Macca was a spice boy and still is in the UK. In Spain he was the players player of the year.
“Yanking Gerrard might also have been an option. Playing a proper right back at right back after the switch might have been an option.”
Both of which were said on the show. Neil also suggested subbing Markovic was harsh.
Indeed. The overall podcast was enjoyable, and the remainder of Melissa’s commentary and analysis was also excellent. It was that particular commentary on that particular topic from that particular contributor with which I took issue.
Big fan of the podcasts, overall.
In my opinion one of the main problems we have in the team at the minute is that our players cannot resort to their instinct, or “default” if you will, because they are playing out of position. Emre Can is not a RB. Markovic is not a RWB. Hendo isnt a wide player, Sterling is not a striker. It’s funny the players that are doing alright in our team are the ones playing in their natural positions!! It almost seems that we’re over complicating everything with ambitious tactics and constant tinkering.
I’m down with this. I think the lesson of the last few games is that whilst good players can do you a job anywhere, against better opposition in big games it pays to have players playing where they are comfortable…in the positions that made you want to buy those players in the first place. When you’re spending large periods on the back foot, square pegs start to look like square pegs in a big way.
If you want to criticize Brendan for anything, it’s this. Even then I would offer mitigation in terms of injuries, suspensions, etc., but all in all, let’s get Markovic, Sterling, whoever we decide is going to be the right back playing where they should be from now until the end of the season.
I recall just after the Swansea match (or around that time) that the anfield wrap had a little review of how things are going. It was overwhelmingly positive. Focused on how players are being educated on different systems, they were showing strength of character and winning matches this season that they would have lost last season and how the new players were bedding in very nicely.
Only a few weeks have past and now the verdict is overwhelmingly damning. Seems hard to reconcile. I don’t really know which verdict is correct. The team that put on such a pathetic show against the Villa was deserving of all the criticism and the negativity. But then we have given Chelsea the best run for their money this season in the two legs of the league cup. That was pretty good too, no? The manager is still the same and the squad is still the same (specific injuries aside).
Guess all I’m saying is it’s hard to figure out whether the recent trends really indicate a vulnerable core at the club/squad or whether it’s just been a hard season.
Neil called it right and I was thinking it all week as well; Gerrard should have been the ultimate impact sub from 60 to a possible 120 and pens rather than a starter. Gerrard’s had poor games against Villa in Rodgers’ time even when he’s been in a good run of form. Lucas was a big miss against them and not for the first time – whether it’s shielding that back 3 from having Delph and the lad Grealish run at them exposed or dropping in to help the defenders in the air against Benteke.
Stevie would cramp up in his physical prime playing in that environment for that long like against West Ham at Cardiff. Let the team that went undefeated December-March go out there (sans Sakho which is another huge miss to the way we’ve been playing, to be fair) and then have Gerrard come on like Kuyt under Kenny v Cardiff.
I’ve been saying it all season goals-wise so soz if I’m repeating myself from previous posts on here, but there’s a chasm of difference in quality of our set pieces between last season and this. The players can’t control Suarez going or Sturridge being injured but Coutinho’s corner for Gerrard’s header aside, Shay Given couldn’t have hoped for an easier afternoon; all kinds of Henderson and Gerrard corners and free kicks going straight into his body with no one running in anywhere near him. When the delivery was half-decent it was Lovren’s 50p head on the end of it rather than Skrtel (still not over the stupid fucking idiocy of Lovren’s shot at the end either. Just… Wow, mate).
Also, it’s a year to the day since Norwich away, the 11th of the 11 league wins on the trot just in case anyone wasn’t feeling sombre enough about the footy.
So when we were on a run of 13 undefeated Gibbo was delighted with the performsnces and used them to praise Rodgers. Gibbo said “he’s turned things around and he’s just boss.”
But here we have Gibbo defending Rodgers for selecting Gerrard and as part of that defence he says “its bollocks that Gerrard was shoe horned in, alright we’ve won a few games but not particularly convincingly.”
Can he make up his mind please? Where we good when Gerrard wasnt in the team or, as Ive said all along, were we pretty average and just avoided defeat against mainly shite teams in a shite league? In which case you can hardly sing the praises of a supposedly boss manager.
The TAW lads, mainly Neil, defended playing Gerrard in the derby, and worse, when defending not subbing Gerrard in that game used the pathetic excuse that Rodgers would have had to face him on Monday morning.
Now either it was bullshit then or it was bullshit now because no one offered up that excuse this time in pretty much identical scenarios, i.e. The 35 year old has-been Gerrard (lets not deny reality, he is a has-been) was fucking shite in a big game & if it was anyone else he’d have been subbed.
That Rodgers has been so cowardly on this issue shows how insecure the manager is. It shows further why we need to get rid of him. No manager with balls the size of sand pebbles should be in charge at our football club.
Gibbo also said “if he doesnt play theres a lot of average players in the team”
(A) is Gibbo completely oblivious to the fact that the 2015 version of Gerrard isnt even average? (b) Rodgers has had 215 million quid to spend, 120 million not 9 months ago – any danger of him building a semblance of depth?
In terms of formations, I said weeks ago to Sean Rogers that Rodgers has been throwing shit at a wall and hoping something will stick. That the players sense this and lose faith. They know he’s as lost as them. They can feel he has no answers. These last 3/4 results were coming. I said so during the “great run” of 13 undefeated and went after those triumphilast idiots who thought everything was sorted & asking questions like “wheres brendans critics posting now?”
The answer: right fucking here.
After reading the comment above I want to say I thought Melissa was spot on in most of what she said. It all made sense to me once pointed out. I thought it was brilliant that we were offered little snippets from behind the scenes almost. Really interesting stuff.
Another pod being very very generous to the manager. Also what does it say when your saying that Rodgers has balls to change formations ( which we all agree happened about 3 months too late) and he’s spent how much but know your telling us he doesnt trust the players in these formations and we need to spend again!!! Ridiculous.
Hypothetical starting XI and formation (4312/41212 also deployable as a 4231) with Jones, Johnson, Lovren, Gerrard, Markovic, Borini, and Lambert on the bench (with the personnel available at game time):
Mignolet
Manquillo Skrtel Toure Moreno
Henderson Allen Can
Coutinho
Balotelli Sterling
Is that too many ‘average players’ in the starting XI? I don’t know, not so sure.
The explanation for Gerrard’s inclusion is simple and intuitive to anyone interested in looking at this objectively…even if they ultimately disagree with the decision.
It’s true that during our impressive 13 game run that meant we were the last team in the EPL to be unbeaten in 2015 that we didn’t always win with displays of awesome power, pulverizing all-comers into submission. Some of the wins were scrappy and against teams we ought to beat, but whatever faults this league has it remains – from top to bottom – the most competitive major league in Europe. Everybody else gets to play the same teams we do yet everyone else had lost before we had in 2015. Point being, we were doing something right, even if the nagging suspicion remained that a reality jolt lay just around the corner. Still, we beat City and won away at Swansea with a display that, had it been Utd in their pomp or Chelsea this year, would have had the pundits drooling about how victory on the back of such attritional, turgid performances is the stuff of champions.
Then Utd and Arsenal happened. Games we didn’t just lose, but in which we seemingly capitulated. Rabbits and headlights. Points conceded with nary a whimper. The case for Gerrard starting against Villa was built on the back of LFC failing to turn up for the previous two ‘big games’ and the resultant loss of confidence those non-performances must have produced. Whatever Gerrard lacks in legs and pace, surely his galvanizing presence would guarantee there was no collective freezing on semi-final day? Surely his spirit and drive and experience would, whatever the result, preclude a repeat of the Utd/Arsenal no-shows? Again, you don’t have to agree with his selection to accept that such rationale was not without merit. And this is before we even consider the fact that Lucas was injured. Just who was the consistently high performing first eleven shoe-in that Gerrard usurped? Exactly.
“The answer: right fucking here.”
Yes, because we just lost a game. We get it.
There’s certain… Let’s be polite and say eccentric people, who will be like pigs in shit if the manager gets the bullet. “See I told you so! Impressive how right I was, ey?” As if a single fuck will be given.
These heads might make themselves more useful if they started supporting the manager and team nearly as much as they support the possible rightness of their own opinion.
If one were strongly of the opinion/assessment that Steven Gerrard’s ideal use would be for him to enter at 60′, whatever the score happened to be at the time, it behooves one to offer a reasonable ‘alternative’ starting XI without him that would, on paper obviously, work well-enough as such AND relative to the opposition itself.
The absence of Lucas and the presence of Benteke argue against a straightforward 433, with a 1-2 midfield 3. And so on. What I proposed was not the result of some agenda, turbo-charged with hindsight. It is obviously premised on some of my preferences (e.g. that I do not think highly of GlenJo and Lovren, don’t think of Can or Henderson as fully capable of being the sole most withdrawn central midfielder, don’t think of Allen as ‘vertically’ suited for the position vs a potential aerial assault, etc.).
Thanks for that pod guys, a relatively clear eyed review after some of the understandably heated views coming out in the immediate aftermath of a very disappointing performance.
It is a rare event for me to see Liverpool play live, but I was at the game on Sunday sitting on the half way line with a great view of what turned out to be such a disappointing performance. There was certainly a lack of intensity and control about our play from front to back.
Disappointing as the performance was, I think we need to be careful to not to miss the fact that Villa were a very different proposition to the Villa of a couple of months ago. They were bang up it, playing with real confidence, and their fans were right behind them out shouting and out singing ours. I was at the game with a friend who is a Villa fan. He had been at Spurs the week before and he felt that the 0-1 score line had really flattered Spurs.
In the aftermath of this result it is not surprising to see the narrative developing that Liverpool are a team that bottles the big games, whether the finger is pointed at players, manager or both. Certainly Liverpool have blown three big games in the last few weeks.
Although this narrative seems compelling, big games will always be blown in any run where the eventual target of winning every trophy is missed. If we had beaten Villa and gone on to lose to Arsenal in the final, the Villa win would not have been seen as a big game win, we would be focused on how we bottled the final. Similarly we have bottled the must win game against ManU, which trumped the wins in the big must win games against Southampton and Spurs. We went out to Chelsea over two legs in League Cup and that certainly wasn’t a case of bottling the big game, as we matched them for fight over the two legs. Going back to last season, we can say we blew the must win game against Chelsea, but it was only a must win game because we had won the must win game against City.
Well put.