ACCORDING to the back page of The Mirror today, there has been a falling out. Grown men have disagreed about how and why the wheels fell off in the last couple of games involving Liverpool, it is alleged.
The newspaper describes the apparent incident as “a major dressing room crisis” and claims Brendan Rodgers has accused some players of not playing for him. This, the report suggests, led to “some senior players” speaking up “angrily”.
Further allegations of incidents have emerged on Twitter, including from our very own Jim Boardman.
@hms_71 I know there were issues in the dressing room before Christmas, I'd be surprised if some didn't resurface after that on Saturday.
— Jim Boardman (@JimBoardman) April 6, 2015
Been told a couple of senior LFC players tore strips off the boss after Saturday's defeat, after he'd "had a go" at Kolo.
— Jim Boardman (@JimBoardman) April 6, 2015
Throw in other tales that have seeped into Liverpool pub conversations: yet more “senior players” clashing, yet another “senior player” trying to prevent said incident, people walking out in a huff… and what we have here is full-on nuclear option. Press the button, boys, the club’s doomed.
Or perhaps not.
I have no idea what is true and what isn’t in all this. I’m sure the people claiming what they are claiming do so with reason and purpose and not just for the hell of it. I’m sure they have stood the story up somehow before going public with it.
Brendan Rodgers denied anything out of the ordinary in his morning press conference today. He said: “We have lots of meetings here in terms of analysing performance and it was no different to a whole host of meetings we have all year.
“Those meetings helped us recover from the bad start we had to win 10 games out of 13. It was nothing really; it was just analysing performance, analysing where we are at and then feeding forward to the players.”
You might say he would say that. You might be right. But you know what? If it is true? If something did happen? I’m made up. Delighted. Over the moon.
If things are going wrong at Liverpool — like they have against two very good sides in recent weeks — then the people employed to put them right should care. It should matter. They should get angry. They should point fingers. Argue. Have a scrap if need be. Sometimes things need sorting and things need saying. And sometimes it’s not always what people want to hear.
Many have questioned the work ethic, the balls, the gumption of this Liverpool side in their last two showings in the league, me included. Why would the manager be any different? Why would one player not say to another player: “What the fuck were you doing there?” Why would a manager not say: “You didn’t put it in for me today.”
Show me a workplace where everyone gets on like best friends and I’ll show you a liar. Show me a place of work where everyone respects each other and not a bad word is said about anyone else ever and I’ll show you a work of fiction.
When it’s a place of work involving top-level sportsmen, it’s my bet you can ramp everything you see in a ‘normal’ workplace up a few levels. The politics, the fractured relationships: it must all go on. It would be against human nature for it not to.
None of this is to blame The Mirror. Or Jim Boardman. Both claim to have sources and I have no reason to question that. No blame either for anyone who shares this story and others like it on Twitter, or chews it over while having a pint with a bunch of mates.
Gossip is popular. Gossip sells. Gossip makes the world go round. Particularly in football. What goes on behind closed doors is interesting and intriguing — particularly when it concerns a club you have religiously followed all your life. It’s why autobiographies are big business. It’s why people go to sportman’s dinners.
The BBC’s website racks up millions of hits every day for its Gossip Column. The official Liverpool FC website carries similar content for the very same reason. Give the people what they want. Maybe The Anfield Wrap should carry stuff like that, too? I’ll be honest with you, it’s been discussed.
Second only to the gossip is a crisis. God, does the football world love a crisis. Who is leading the sack race? Who has lost the dressing room? Who have the players turned on? Who has a manager lost his rag with?
The people love it. Kompany and Fernandinho. Naked Pulis nutting Beattie (my favourite). Souness and Yorke – according to Andy Cole: “Souness did Dwight in a tackle in training, causing a gash so deep in his shin that you could see the white of his bone.” Souness and Cole. Souness and Bellamy. Souness and Thompson. Souness and everyone. Shearer and Bellamy. Bellamy and Riise. Grobbelaar and McManaman. Hartson and Berkovic. Keane and McCarthy. Carroll and Taylor. Bowyer and Dyer. Batty and Le Saux. Mancini and Balotelli. And on and on and on…
Remember John Sitton?
Peter Reid?
Steven Gerrard?
Managers and players disagree. Managers and players get angry. It happens. It’s a masculine environment, there’s testosterone all over the shop and egos everywhere.
Not every player who played for Gerard Houllier liked Gerard Houllier. Not every player who played for Rafa Benitez liked Rafa Benitez. And guess what? Not every player who plays for Brendan Rodgers likes Brendan Rodgers. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t like every player that plays for him, either (hey, Mario?).
Ferguson lashed a boot at Beckham. Roger Hunt threw his shirt at Shankly. Aldo fell out with Kenny and Carra doesn’t like Diouf (I’m with him on that to be fair).
The point basically is shit happens in football. Search the internet, read some player’s books — you’ll soon discover similar incidents happen all the time up and down the country and have done going back years. Sportsmen — and sportswomen as I discovered when I went to watch Liverpool Ladies last week — in general terms want to win. Passionately so. And sometimes that passion will boil over and the line will be crossed.
Before you know it, the wrong words have spilled out, a shove has happened, a punch has been thrown, someone has lashed the head in. Sometimes it can right a wrong, clear the air and is soon forgotten. Other times, it may of course point to long-term deep divisions that effect team spirit and the collective desire to win football matches.
All of this or none of this may or may not have happened in a Liverpool dressing room post Arsenal. I’ve no problem with it either way right now. It’s easy to lay down rules from the outside and moralise from up on high when the full circumstances are unknown.
What I know for certain is, whatever has gone on, if it means Liverpool start and finish the game better than they did on Saturday when they face Blackburn on Wednesday then I’m all for it.
[rpfc_recent_posts_from_category meta=”true”]
Pic: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda
Whilst I’m broadly supportive I think TAW are guilty of overplaying the workplace trope. It isn’t just like any other place of work, top level football is a rarified environment which is at one level cutting edge, at another mired in the macho, adrenaline fuelled politics of a bygone era. In short, comparing dressing rooms to modern day offices just doesn’t work.
Like Gareth, I hope something positive comes out of this alleged showdown. I like Brendan, on the whole, but his habit of blaming players or complaining about injuries is wearing thin. What must Balo and Sturridge be thinking after last week? He can’t be surprised if his players turned against him after that, particularly if he had a go at Kolo, a player who so clearly gives of his best every time he takes the field.
Wasn’t impressed by the Echo’s training ground photos and comments today, either.
I remember Carra saying in his book that Benitez at Valencia used to encourage the players to turn on each other after bad results to get them to sort out issues,
I hope our players beat the shit out of each other after the performances against Utd and City. They all deserve bloody noses from each other.
I think the points fairly simple to understand though mate. If I said to you I’ve just seen the PM smashing Edwina over his desk you may think I’m full of it (luckily I ydidn’t btw). One would assume that thing doesn’t happen in Downing St. Thing is, it does and did. Why? Because that’s what people do wherever they work. The PM’s office is like my office in terms of human behaviour (except I’ve had no such luck). It doesn’t matter what the job, what the position, what the location or what the level of pressure is – human behaviour/nature prevails. That’s the point. We put them on pedestals or expect them to be super human. They’re not. So, it’s no different to any work place and nothing should surprise us.
Jim Boardman is an embarrassment.
Thirteen games after us finishing second and having the best league season in generation, he was comparing Rogers to Moyes.
Nothing worse than somebody passing rumours off as ITK knowledge, especially when the club is down and getting kicked by all and sundry.
Here here. Boardman is pure poison. Presumably Rogers pissed him off at some point, because his agenda is about as opaque as it is intelligent. Suprised the TAW lot have welcomed him back at all.
Anyway, good article. Mountain. Molehill. Up the reds.
Absolute nonsense. Jim is a good journalist with sources at the club. This has been proved time and again if you’ve read him long enough. He is ITK. And he’s much more in touch with fan feeling on the ground than many commentors on LFC in the press.
And the “agenda” bullshit resurfaces. Its so pathetic. Have a different opinion and get accused of having an agenda. What a time to be alive. Problem you have is there is now much more than a significant majority that holds this same opinion, or “agenda.”
“Senior players”?
Our only senior players were both suspended. Then there’s Lucas, who after that performance (possibly the worst I’ve witnessed in a Liverpool shirt by any player) had no room to “tear strips” of anybody!
I guess the captain could be considered a senior player, but Henderson tearing strips off anyone is laughable (it always is), let alone the man who (mistakingly) made him captain!
Is this really what football coverage has come to? Breaking news just in: words exchanged after bad defeat shocker! We call out players for shitting the bed in the big games but as a fan base we’ve collectively done the same on twitter, in newspapers, etc.
There must be a market for peddling the mundane as hysteria otherwise it wouldn’t exist but are we that desperate to press self-destruct that we go into meltdown over rumoured dissent? I’m with Gareth; good! There should be. If it was reported that instead, there was just quiet acceptance *then* I’d be worried over a dreaded ‘crisis’.
I also hope Rodgers, Henderson and whoever else tore strips off Gerrard and Skrtel for their stupidity against United. Same thing with Can against Arsenal. Only Sakho and Mignolet should be able to look at their performances in the last two games and expect to not be bollocked and even they made costly mistakes.
Jim is entitled to his opinion. Last season we had the most talented player ever to put on a Liverpool shirt inspiring the players, club and fans to second place. The manager basked in the glow of having a world star at the height of his powers but without Suarez we would imo been a long way short of a top 4 team. Did we improve the squad in the summer? Without a player like Suarez we were always going to struggle this year. The manager knew this more than anyone and I think it’s fair to say that he failed to come up with a solution, despite spending the Barca windfall and a bit extra. In the manager’s defence it was a very difficult problem to solve.
I’m less inclined to defend the manager when his man management backfires. Rodgers can choose to use all the Mourinho man management methods in the world but unless he is winning trophies he should expect players to point the finger back. More worrying however for the manager is that he shouldn’t expect one, two or possibly three players should brief the media. As a personality manager who works incredibly hard to get his players to buy into his NLP, Steve Peters psychology and believe totally in his ability.For a personality manager not loosing the dressing room is actually the hardest trick to pull off however when they do things can unravel very quickly.
Question: if you’re a player at lfc and have seen your boss pick favourites, get found out tactically, prepare you badly for big games, make baffling substitutions then choose scapegoats and publicly lambast certain individuals (whether its you or a teammate) in the press whenever under pressure – both now and in November – then he questions how much effort you’re putting in, wouldn’t you want to tell him to fuck off as well?
Another question, and please someone answer this: How many top managers in the modern game (last 20 years) have publicly hung their players out to dry to deflect attention away from their own performance?
Ferguson, Mourinho et al would (a) say nothing (b) say something ridiculous to avoid criticism of players while tearing strips of them in the changing room. Others like Guardiola take full responsibility for major defeats (Munich in UCL last year)
In November Rodgers couldn’t wait to talk about Mario, even when he was injured for weeks on end. It was repulsive then and is repulsive now. Funny enough when we went 13 undefeated Rodgers had little to say about Balotelli.
But of course this sort of behaviour is ok for a liverpool manager according to some, or at most is worth a “tut tut lets move on.”
Its bang out of order and done because he is insecure and doesnt trust himself to handle just criticism & come up with the answers.
What do you think should happen Chris. Obviously, you’re not prepared to say ‘tut tut let’s move on’ so what action should be taken because words were exchanged after a poor performance?
You seem to misunderstand. Words should be exchanged after a display like that. In the changing rooms of The Emirates and Melwood, and Anfield against Utd.
What I have a serious issue with is people like you saying “yea our manager does have a nasty habit of throwing others under the bus when he comes under pressure, and also happens to pick the easiest possible scapegoats with the fans, like a once moody Italian who has never fitted in, and also our best player who the crowd have never warmed to and who is playing hardball over a new contract, but ho hum what can you do Rodgers is still the man”
Thats not right. Rodgers should be called out by us on his bullshit and told this behaviour is unacceptable. That he should have broad enough shoulders to take criticism & should not be publicly lambasting players so the story for the following days is about them and not him and his performance.
Unless you don’t recognise this pattern of behaviour, that I pointed out in November and Paul points out above, from the manager?
Well, I definitely recognise it and it doesn’t particularly appeal to me but what can one do about it?
It seems to me that views on the manager are well and truly entrenched. Pointing out his shortcomings are like arguing about your own kids – neither side will give way. It is unique, I think. I don’t recall Hodgson being so divisive. Maybe we were as one…I didn’t dislike Roy, just felt sorry for him.
I’ve seen and participated in a few dressing room barneys in my time, but only ever saw on that was sparked by one game. They usually stem from long-brewing slights or issues. I was part of one blazing row that almost descended into a brawl, but nobody outside the room even knew about it, then or later. The warring people fronted up to training two days later and acted as if nothing had happened.
For th news of this purported row to
get out suggests an agenda on someone’s part. At the end of a poor week off the field..,
God knows I am no fan of Rodgers to the point where I have difficulty seeing any merit in him whatsoever, but I wouldn’t see a dressing room ‘clearing of the air’ as any sign of bad management (I see more than enough signs already).
Doesnt seem to be a clearing of air though does it?. This seems to be BR having a pop at Kolo and others taking their opportunity to have a pop back. If BR is held in such little regard then that is a huge problem.
You may well be right. Wednesday might ease the tensions (if we win), but FSG sacked Dalglish when he had achieved more than Rodgers is likely to, and, despite 35m for Carroll, at less expense.
The FA Cup carries no real prestige beyond the seasons end, and doesn’t bring in a shitload of money. It won’t bring in a marquee star and probably wouldn’t keep Sterling, who probably spoke to RM on Saturday night.
I thought FSG were wrong to sack Dalglish after 18mths in total and barely 1 year into a 3 year contract and I said so at the time, if for no other reason than I don’t want this club turning into one of those basket-case clubs that does away with a manager at the first sniff of trouble/under-achievement. That method rarely works.
But it wouldn’t make sense for me to oppose the sacking of Dalglish on this basis only to advocate the removal of Rodgers one year after finishing second. As I commented elsewhere, with the resources at Rodgers’ disposal and for where we are as a club right now, finishing top 4 would be over-achievement. Taking out one of Arsenal (CL qualifiers for 17 seasons running), United, City or Chelsea would be LFC punching well above their weight. It’s therefore ridiculous to talk about finishing 5th or 6th as if it represents some sort of abject failure. It’s disappointing and pisses me off royally, but “failure” it is not.
It’s not about having an “entrenched position”, it’s just basic logic.
So Rodgers is safe simply because you don’t want us to be ‘one of those clubs’, like Chelsea, or RM? While I would agree that it is not the Liverpool way to jettison managers after a short spell, Rodgers has now had 3 seasons – teice as long as Dalglish. and will
finish this season more or less in the same positiion as when he arrived. He inherited a team which finished 8th after ‘falling in a hole at the end of the season’. He has had three years and 250 million pounds gross, and we are no further ahead. The youngsters he is given credit for – Ibe, Sterling, were not his signings. Notwithstanding my opinion of him, I don’t think an objective impartial observer would think he is a success. His performance in the holy grail CL was abysmal, and his performance in the Europa equally bad. To keep him because we don’t want to be like other clubs seems silly. Would you have clung to Roy by the same criterion?
“If for no other reason” does not mean “the only reason”. The main reason I don’t subscribe to this policy of – as you say – jettisoning managers after short periods in charge (unless there are other extenuating circumstances) is that it doesn’t work. When you are one of the richest clubs in the world who can, literally, buy success (Real, City, Chelsea, Munich, PSG, etc.) then you might get away with it (having a pick of the world’s elite managers to help you spend the squillion of pounds you have available for transfers helps), but for mortal clubs such as ours there is no evidence that this approach improves your chances of success. Ask Spurs.
There would be no justification in getting rid of Rodgers right now. 5th of thereabouts in the EPL is no worse than par for where we should be. 2nd last year was massively over-achieving. Throw in a cup win this year and you could still argue we’ve over-achieved (I realize this doesn’t sit well with fans of our great club, but in the reality-based community this is acknowledged as being so). Sack managers who finish just outside the top 4 and win a domestic club, and what sort of message do you send to any decent manager considering LFC as a destination? It’s top 4 or bust. I think that’s likely to dissuade the likes of Klopp, for example, but even if it doesn’t and that’s the route we want to go, we should probably prepare ourselves for a few managerial sackings in the coming years (at least until the Emir of wherever decides he’d like to own an English club).
The performances in Europe weren’t great, but the reality is the pivotal games in the CL came at a time when we were struggling. If the CL had started in Jan we’d qualify from the group, no question. I’m sure Rodgers has learnt from his first season in the competition and there are plenty of managers who’ve struggled on their CL debut. If we wanted a manager who was tried and tested in the CL, he shouldn’t have got the job in the first place and we should have hired one of the other elite European managers banging down our door after Hodgson left. Who were they again?
He spent money with varying success and it’s been done, mostly, to improve the squad baseline. Whatever questions still hang over the likes of Lallana, Lovren, Markovic, etc., our bench is unquestionably stronger than it was this time last year. We actually do have substitutes who can improve us and change games – something that probably cost us last year. This is not that different from the Benitez approach and something that most clubs in out position have to do to try to close the gap on the rest. Arsenal are generally considered to the team we are closest to in terms of our ability to compete with one of the top 4, and last year they spent 35mill on Sanchez and the previous year 42mill on Ozil. Take out Carroll (a complete outlier who – as per Kenny – cost us minus 15mill following the sale of Torres) and we don’t come close. Lallana at 25mill is as close as we get. Utd spent more than that on a defender 13 years ago. City and Chelsea are in a different stratosphere again.
It’s healthy for a club like ours to have high expectations, but we need a rational response when they are not met. We’re still recovering from the Suarez bereavement, Gerrard is going and there are question marks over the futures of two of our best players. Unless there is a cataclysmic disintegration in our performances between now and season end, dumping the manager against the backdrop makes about as much sense as a pissed up Klanger.
So if you accept that finishing 4th in this league (this league!) would have been an overachievement, and that 5th is par, why do you want a manager who is only capable of achieving, at best, par?
Why is bang average ok for liverpool football club? Should we not want our manager to be better than average?
Fair question that deserves a fair response.
Firstly, I would say that April 7th 2015 is not the end of history. Neither of us *knows* what we may go on to achieve under Rodgers, so suggesting we stick with him for now is not a case of settling for par so much as sober assessment of the record to date that leads me to a) conclude his performance is not deserving of the sack, and b) have enough faith in his ability to improve things from here.
In his first season he improved our EPL finish by one place (coming 7th) followed by last season’s 2nd. Nothing is settled this season although it looks like we’ll miss out on top 4, but one top 4 finish in every 3 years is still an improvement on where we were. I know you come from the school of thought that believes last year was all about Suarez and nothing else, but at the start of last season Rodgers made Suarez train with the u-21s during the contract wrangle. He managed that situation and the man and wound up with a footballer who won player of the year scoring 31 goals. Suarez evolved from contract rebel to top 3 world star on his watch. Correlation does not prove causation, but it would be churlish to say Rodgers does not deserve at least *some* credit for that.
We’re all LFC fans so “bang average” is not what we aspire to, but you don’t improve your chances of success by being unrealistic about what’s possible in relatively short periods of time. As another commenter pointed out the other day, progress is rarely linear – it wasn’t at United under Ferguson’s first few years there. Moreover, we’re operating in an era when bridging the gap between what’s considered par and over-achievement has never been more difficult. Since City were bought by Sheikh whatshisface, we have three mega-rich football clubs in front us plus the team that has made top 4 for the last 16 seasons and is now spending big themselves. Any LFC team/manager that breaks that monopoly is doing spectacularly well, something evinced by the fact that the top four has barely changed since City’s emergence as a domestic force, and we – under Rodgers- are the only team to interfere with that monopoly.
When Rodgers was appointed, who were the other candidates for the job? Martinez? When Hodgson was appointed, it is rumoured the job was first offered to Deschamps. Point being, the world’s elite managers – proven in CL, stacks of domestic trophies behind them – are not banging down our door and nor would they be if we ditched Rodgers. We’re just not all that right now. If Guardiola made it know he saw LFC as a project he’d like to be involved with, I could be persuaded to let Rodgers go, but it isn’t going to happen.
Who do you think we could get – realistically – who would immediately improve our fortunes?
Of course I realize it’s not a “monopoly” if 4 teams are involved :-)
Simeone is possible. Rafa too. Klopp. There’s 3.
All winners. All *proven* they are well above average. All proven to do the business against the odds year on year. All proven to succeed against richer clubs. All know what they’re doing in Europe as well.
None of that can be said about our current manager.
I think there’s no chance with Simeone and the Rafa ship has sailed (although I would happily see Rafa back at the club just to piss of the British media if nothing else).
In his first two seasons at Dortmund – a club that had won the Bundeslliga much more recently than we have won the league (and had won their league 3 times since the last time we won ours) – Klopp finished 6th and 5th. On the basis of what you were saying about Rodgers even at the beginning of this season, I strongly suspect you would have been calling for Klopp to go as Dortmund entered the 09-10 campaign (the year they won). At that point Germany’s second club were being managed by the ex-Mainz manager who had resigned the year after they were relegated from the Bundesliga. He had one promotion he could point to and that was it (remind you of anyone?). I think this demonstrates a couple of things:
1 – Just as past success is not a guarantee of future success, so a lack of success during one tenure does not mean a manager will not deliver in his next
2 – Patience is a virtue
I just checked the Forbes’ list of richest clubs. Dortmund are right next to us in 11th place (we’re 10th). Above us are 4 other English clubs. Above Dortmund is one other German club. Klopp takes a lot of the credit for the fact that Dortmund are where they are, but the fact is you finish above Bayern you probably win the league in Germany (certainly true of the last 5 seasons at least). In the EPL you can finish above Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal and still not get your hands on the main prize (as we know only too well).
Dortmund are currently 10th and were considerably worse until fairly recently. They lost Lewandowski and Goetze in recent times but their squad still includes two players who chose BVB over LFC (Mkhitaryan and Papastathopoulos), along with the likes of Reus, Hummels, Schmelzer, Bender, etc.. If anyone has earned the right to have an off-season then it is Klopp, but that still ranks as fairly spectacularly under-achievement.
Klopp would probably be my first choice if Rodgers did go, but the above is just to make it clear that there are very few managerial careers that begin with instant success and remain on an upward trajectory from there. It’s a series of ups and downs and as with everything else in life. Under Rodgers it’s been no different and I doubt it would be under Klopp.
I’m still in the camp that thinks we should give him more time. Let’s see how the new players perform after a first season under their belts. Let’s see how we begin a campaign with Sturridge fit. Let’s see how the young talent we have in this squad kicks on from here.
Brownie:
I don’t know why it took 5 years for Ferguson to get it together at ManU. However, Ferguson did have European success before coming to ManU. People, for what ever reason, seem to forget that. He beat Real Madrid, among others, before coming to ManU. Guess it also says something about Scottish football in the 1980’s.
There are major differences.
For a start, Klopp never failed anywhere. Rodgers failed at Reading massively and was a failure at Watford.
Klopp took over at Mainz and remained for 7 years. Over that time he took them from middle of the pack in the German 2nd division, got them promoted then took them to the Uefa Cup where they were eliminated by that seasons winner Sevilla. After financially struggling and selling players they were relegated. But not after years of sustained success. Rodgers has never had years of sustained success.
There is a visible body of work. What you can also see, apart from results, is a consistant level of performance from one season to the next, as well as a style of play that isnt found out on the regular and happens to be pleasing to the eye. He also had to start from scratch. Brendan did not.
Rodgers took over Roberto Martinez’s developing & already well placed and successful Swansea and was asked to get automatic promotion. He didnt, but got the playoffs and promotion that way. He kept them in the Premier League in his 2nd year.
He took us from 8th to 7th in his 1st year.
Meanwhile Klopp took over Dortmund who had finished 13th and win the league. Twice. Back to back. No fall away in his 2nd season. No collapse.
And while your point about richest clubs may be accurate, klopp has never had the money Rodgers has had. And he has lost star players to his main domestic rival. He also never had someone like Suarez, who apart from being a freak of nature in terms of ability, was also a leader and made every teammate around him better.
In terms of players choosing Dortmund over us, this is a bit “and what?” Rodgers begged Gylfie Siggurdsson to come to us but he chose Spurs. And what? How did that help Spurs or hurt us? Mkyataryan & the greek are good, but nothing amazing. We have better players. If anything it shows how naff Rodgers is when it comes to recruitment. The only player in Rodgers tenure he’s wanted, we’ve missed out on and Ive been gutted about is Sanchez.
Concerning this season, two things explain away Dortmund’s terrible start. One, an injury crisis. Two, they don’t have the finances we do to build a squad, meaning over the last few years they’ve been competing on all fronts without rotation. They are a tired and worn team. I predicted it in the summer, just as I am predicting the same thing will happen to Atletico next season. Just watch. And this time next year Simeone will have his critics too.
Whereas our faults this season are 90% down to the manager not being good enough. Klopp has never had his favourites, never been tactically inept, never been afraid to stand up to players, never thrown easy targets under the bus and never had to change his formation endlessly as he keeps getting found out. He’s also done quite well in Europe. He couldn’t be more unlike Rodgers.
“For a start, Klopp never failed anywhere”
Well he clearly disagreed, or he wouldn’t have resigned as manager of Mainz. Apart from qualification for the UEFA cup, what he achieved at Mainz is not different to what Rodgers achieved at Swansea. They both got their respective clubs promoted and did well in their debut seasons in the top flight (except Rodgers didn’t oversee a subsequent Swansea releagtion).
Look, leaving Rodgers aside, you appear to be saying that you want Liverpool’s manager to be a proven winner with trophies in the bank (a bit like Hodgson?). Fair enough, there are plenty others who only want to consider this type of manager for their clubs, too. It’s ironic that for all your advocacy of Jurgen Klopp, he’s a prime example of a completely unproven young manager without a trophy to his name who was given the chance to succeed at a bigger club.
This is before we even start the discussion about how likely it is one of these proven winner managers would even consider taking the ‘top for or you’re out’ role at LFC. As I said previously, look again at the shortlist of candidates when proven winner Hodgson and unproven Rodgers were appointed. Where are the Klopps? The Simeones?
Frank De Boer, then? Has won the Eredivise consecutively in four seasons since starting his managerial career, after having a hand in helping the Netherlands to get to the World Cup Final in 2010 (as Assistant).
Not a bad shout. Look, I’m not saying that success with Rodgers is inevitable or that there’s no-one out there who couldn’t possibly do a better job. I just don’t think Rodgers’ record to date is sufficient reason to be ditching him. At least not yet. We have an exciting young squad (I’m guessing the youngest average age of the top 6), I expect all the new recruits to be better next season, so with a couple of decent buys and better luck with injuries to pivotal players there’s plenty to keep me interested for next season.
My honest assessment is that with the current financial imbalance, it will be extremely difficult for LFC to achieve what we all want and it won’t matter a toss who the manager is.
Phil, well it was Fergie’s 7th season when the won the league, although the FA cup came in his 4th. That’s more time that Martyn O’Neill got at Villa when he came south with a sackful of trophies.
I’m generally happy with the work Rodgers has done during his tenure, but in terms of personality, Klopp would be a breath of fresh air…
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/liverpool/next-permanent-manager
I don’t necessarily want ‘a winner’. Not immediately, anyway. But I would like a manager who is tactically aware, has a plan B, and does not criticise players publicly or blame others (‘ didnt want him, you know, the transfer committee signed him.’)
Plus a manager who does not say “I thought we were outstanding” all the time. And I don’t think
He has much dignity. I don’t mean his appearance or private life, they are not my business.
Come on, Kevin, you think there’s any manager out there – take your pick – who doesn’t occasionally get criticized by his own fan-base for that game when his tactics were found out, or his substitutions didn’t work, or plan B failed? You’re describing every manager everywhere, it just happens at different levels. Ask an Arsenal fan what they think of Wenger’s tactics against Monaco.
Ferguson criticised Beckham in public more than once and for less reason than Rodgers has had to criticize some of his players. None of us knows what the true situation is with Balotelli, for example. Did not travel to Arsenal because he decided his knee wasn’t up to it. Maybe he is taking the piss and maybe Rodgers knows he is? Ever considered that?
And as manager, if he’s having to cope with a transfer committee selecting his buys, he’s already having to deal with something Fergie didn’t, and none of Mourinho, Wenger or most others in the EPL have to contend with.
But he claimed that he has the final say, but passes the buck when doubts are expressed about buys.
You are right about managers making mistakes, but Rodgers never admits it and almost all of his commendable selection changes were forced on him by injuries. Before Christmas, Lovren was a fixture no matter how badly he played (and he was awful) and everybody but Rodgers could see it. Persisting with Lovren when he was either out of form or out of place did the player and the team no favours.You don’t let the fans pick the team, but in my view if the fans HAD picked the team we would have been much better placed.n
Insofar as substitutions are concerned, a few weeks ago I challenged Brendan’s fans to nominate a substitution he has EVER made that noticeably improved the performance or saved a game but the response was muted.
I freely admit I don’t like anything about Rodgers but I am prepared to give credit when it’s due. I just don’t think its due.
I like Jurgen Klopp but he doesn’t have a Plan B!
Spot on Gareth – “so what” is right.
Mountains out of molehills and even then I’m not sure that the story about the molehill stands up to much scrutiny. A story will unattributed comments from a writer who doesn’t normally cover the Liverpool beat, backed by tweets by Jim Boardman. No one else is running with the story, it is already dead, yesterday’s news.
I always enjoy Jim’s contributions to the podcasts, but in print he has the tendency to be a pessimistic moaner whose views on Rodgers and FSG were fixed long ago. Whether people want to say he has an agenda or not, he is always ready to highlight the negative on Rodgers and FSG.
A couple of poor (v. poor) results, and the siren call goes out for a “proven winner”, who will allow Liverpool to out perform “bang average” par of 5th place for the 5th best resourced team in England.
We have the usual suspects:
Klopp, currently 10th with the 2nd best resourced team in Germany.
Benitez, currently 6th with the 3rd best resourced team in Italy.
Simeone, currently 3rd with the 3rd best resourced team in Spain.
Clearly guaranteed domestic success, if we were to bring in any one of them. Oh, and do you imagine a Liverpool dressing room with Simeone in charge is going to be all sweetness and light?
Have you noticed that when you’re going through a rough patch, everybody’s girlfriend is suddenly better-looking than your own?