YOU might think this is knee jerk, an overreaction in the wake of a disappointing FA Cup semi-final defeat. All I can do is assure you that I’d planned to write the exact same thing if Liverpool hadn’t stunk out Wembley against Aston Villa on Sunday.
So here goes: FSG should already be sounding out Jurgen Klopp about the possibility of taking over at Anfield this summer.
Before I go on, a few caveats.
First, Brendan Rodgers isn’t a bad football manager. I’m consistently taken aback by the venom aimed at him by Liverpool supporters. I’ve witnessed far worse seasons than this one and heard far more nonsense spouted from the mouths of past Liverpool managers. Frankly, my skin crawls when I read the oft repeated word ‘fraud’ in reference to Rodgers.
Frauds don’t come within three points of winning the title and overseeing the best league season in two decades. Nor does a fraud so significantly improve players like Jordan Henderson and Raheem Sterling in the manner that Rodgers has.
Rodgers is a fine young coach who may well improve and go on to become an excellent manager in time. My issue is simply that I don’t happen to think he’s top class now and, if there is an opportunity for FSG to upgrade and acquire a genuinely world-class manager, then they should seriously consider doing so. Proven top quality managers don’t appear on the market that often, and when they do they usually have bigger and better offers than what Liverpool can bring to the table these days.
As things stand, Jurgen Klopp is available now and there will likely be no better opportunity for Liverpool to bring in someone of his calibre than at present. It’s well documented that he wants to manage in England and that automatically means that a maximum of six Premier League clubs could possibly hope to attract him.
Chelsea won’t move for him because they have Jose Mourinho. Spurs are at the beginning of a cycle with Mauricio Pochettino. Manchester United are finally improving under Louis van Gaal and won’t want to deviate from their current path. Arsenal would likely be interested but the prospect of Arsene Wenger leaving the club this summer seems remote. Man City will almost certainly look for a replacement for Manuel Pellegrini but it’s widely reported that they would prefer an Ancelotti type or to wait another year or two for their human holy grail, Pep Guardiola.
In short, Klopp’s options in England appear limited right now and Liverpool would definitely be one of them if the club show an interest.
There are plenty of reasons why the German has already been linked with a move to Anfield since he announced his impending departure from his beloved Dortmund. Some are merely romantic and superficial. Klopp won’t join Liverpool because their fans sing ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ like Borussia’s do. He won’t want to walk through the Shankly Gates and take his place in the dugout this summer simply because he talked up the club ahead of a pre-season friendly or touched the ‘This is Anfield’ sign, either. These things may look nice, but they won’t matter a jot when he is making his mind up about the next step in his career.
What will matter, should Liverpool choose to sound him out, is how compatible he sees himself being with FSG’s model and the squad currently at Anfield. Here is where the encouraging signs begin.
At their best, Klopp’s Dortmund were an energetic, youthful and vibrant team. Quick counter attacks, relentless, intelligent pressing and high-speed football were their hallmarks. When you evaluate the current group of Liverpool players and recall the manner in which they nearly won the title last season, it seems apparent that a large number of the squad would fit Klopp’s preferred style down to a tee. The pace and youth is obvious with the likes of Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic, Moreno, Ibe, Sturridge, Can, Sakho and Henderson. There is no doubt that Klopp would seek to augment the side somewhat — the lack of a top-class defensive midfielder sticks out like a sore thumb — but many of the raw materials you imagine the German would look for are unquestionably present in a significant number of Liverpool’s crop current of players.
During their most successful period under Rodgers last term, Liverpool played with unmatched intensity and flew out the blocks at teams. They were also capable of sitting deeper and unleashing devastating counter attacks when required. The loss of Luis Suarez and injuries to Daniel Sturridge unquestionably blunted these approaches this season, but so too did Rodgers’ insistence on playing one striker with little pace — usually Mario Balotelli or Rickie Lambert — up front alone and isolated for large parts of this season.
Even players like Markovic and Sterling, who posses the physical and technical ability to hurt teams on the counter or with a high press, have often been used strangely and asked to fill in numerous times as little more than auxiliary full backs. It’s not difficult to imagine Klopp seeing untapped potential in such players and recognising their true worth which has been sadly misused so often this season.
Off the pitch, Klopp seems as likely a man to unite a divided fan base as any other. Gareth Roberts wrote about the division among Liverpool’s supporters regarding Brendan Rodgers excellently on this site and there is little doubt that many simply don’t buy into the man. Many fans still yearn for the return of Rafa Benitez — if you think Rodgers treats the ‘committee signings’ with disdain imagine how vocal Rafa would be about them! — or haven’t got over the way Kenny Dalglish was sacked, but I won’t go into that too much as Gareth’s piece sums it all up.
The point is that Klopp could well be a unifying force. He’s eminently likeable, he tells it how it is, has a great sense of humour and is as passionate as you could wish a manager to be. None of these traits are prerequisites for managing Liverpool Football Club — far from it — but such characteristics seem likely to get the vast majority of Liverpool fans backing him from day one and it’s worth noting that a unified fan base hasn’t truly existed at Anfield since the early days of Benitez nearly a decade ago. To have a charismatic figurehead managing the club again with the vast majority of supports buying into him would be no bad thing.
Naturally, there is the possibility that Klopp might not fancy Liverpool and could receive offers from other clubs that appeal more to him, but if FSG aren’t in touch with him already and exploring the possibility of bringing him to Anfield then I’d be genuinely shocked and more than a little dismayed. Reports suggest that West Ham have already spoken to him so there’s no reason Liverpool shouldn’t be.
The owners have proven they are ruthless in the past. They unceremoniously dismissed the club’s greatest living legend when he had reached two cup finals and brought silverware to Anfield and duly replaced him with a manager who was still relatively new to the profession. That they wouldn’t consider a man who has proven he can compete with the might of Bayern Munich and Europe’s elite sides on a relative pittance seems fanciful to me. Klopp’s time at Dortmund is probably exactly what John Henry and co desired and foresaw when they appointed Rodgers and, now the man himself is potentially available, it would make all the sense in the world to at least have a chat with him off the record and gauge his interest in coming to Merseyside.
If that happens and Liverpool do decide to replace Rodgers with Klopp this summer there is no guarantee of success. There never can be in football. Managers have often failed to replicate magical stints with one club at another, but it’s no more certain than suggesting backing Brendan Rodgers for a fourth season would bring success to Anfield either.
There is evidence to suggest he could get Liverpool to where they want to be, but equally, this season has provided plenty of ammunition for those who wish to argue that he can’t. It’s not an easy decision to make either way but when a manager like Jurgen Klopp becomes available you surely have to at least entertain the possibility of bringing him in.
Liverpool seem fairly likely to end the season in fifth place and have performed pretty well in the two domestic cup competitions. If you listen to the stats experts and financial analysts, that’s about par. This season hasn’t been an unmitigated disaster or even close to the worst in living memory despite what some say, but the fact is that par isn’t good enough any more. In the past an average season meant Liverpool still finished in the top four and stayed in the Champions League. Manchester City’s emergence has taken away that safety net in recent years and to remain truly competitive the Reds now need a manager who can consistently punch above his weight. For years in Germany Klopp did just that.
Some people have been keen to point out that the German has had an even worse 2014-15 than Rodgers has, but that doesn’t concern me much.
There is no question that Dortmund have had a bad campaign. They lie ninth in the Bundesliga and there was genuine fear about relegation around the time of the German winter break. That shouldn’t be ignored, of course. But nor should it diminish six seasons of startling improvement that Klopp presided over. Sometimes a manager and a club just run out of steam together. 12 players remain in Dortmund’s squad from the group that won their first title under Klopp back in 2011. That’s a long time for one group of players to stay together and, with the intensity that Klopp demands, it seems natural that a drop off would eventually arrive.
Frankly, I’d take Jurgen Klopp’s seventh season at Liverpool being a disaster if it meant the next six years being filled with the vibrant football, league titles, cup wins and Champions League finals he brought to Borussia Dortmund.
I happen to think FSG might, too.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda-Photo
Nice article Dave. I´d be delighted if we got Klopp. Not too bothered about his ability to unify the fans..an almost impossible task in the internet age. He is a though a GREAT manager, a winner & a good fit I think.
So, Klopp having a bad season is tolerable but Rodgers having an on par season is not? It’s like listening to a child who always thinks any other toy is better than the one he’s got.
But Klopp has had only one truly bad season at Dortmund meanwhile Rodgers has had only one truly good season at Liverpool. Form is temporary while class is permanent. One bad season doth not erase the memory of a CL final and 2 League titles and a domestic cup (in a League financially dominated by one Bavarian team that takes the best players from its rivals).
Meanwhile one good season for Rodgers where LFC comes 2nd does not take away the memory of continuous big game losses vs Zenit, Chelsea, Arsenal, United, Basel, Besiktas and Villa.
Fact is Klopp may have had a bad patch but his track record of success before that devours that of Rodgers whom has known no trophy success in his career.
“But Klopp has had only one truly bad season at Dortmund”
Yes, this one right here.
How many trophies had Klopp won when he was given his chance at Dortmund?
To win the EPL, Rodgers has to overhaul 4 of the top 7 richest clubs on earth. To win the Bundesliga, Klopp has to beat 1 of the top 7.
I fucking hate this shit being spouted by people who have no idea about German football.
When Klopp took over Dortmund in 2008, they had been fighting relegation for 2 years. They were utterly crippled financially, needing Bayern to loan them 2 million euros. There is this idea that because Dortmund won a few things in the 90s they were/are the 2nd biggest club in Germany. They might be now, but if they are Klopp is the reason.
I don’t think they are but the point is they certainly werent when Klopp took over. Hamberger, Werder Bremer, Borussia Monchengladbach and Schalke are all bigger clubs historically, as well as Nurnberg. And Leverkusen have been bigger for 15 years too.
But what did Klopp do immediately? He took them from near the bottom to 6th, then 5th, then won 2 league titles, then finished as runners up twice. And lets get three things clear:
1. “he only had Bayern to beat & all the rest are shit” is a fucking myth. Schalke reached a champions league semi final & Stuttgart reached a champions league quarter final in addition to the monster of Munich while Klopp’s been at Dortmund.
2. Almost very year without fail Klopp lost his best player or players, some of whom went directly to his major domestic rival or a major european rival. Sahin went to Madrid, Barrios went to China for the money, Kagawa went to Utd, Gotze went to Munich followed by Lewandowski. And Klopp maintained excellence. Reus will leave this summer & Klopp probably decided because of that, that he had to go now.
3. This season, his first poor one, has been down to 2 things. (A) an unreal amount of injuries from the summer to xmas & injuries to the few remaining key players that he has. At one stage in October he had his full under 21 back 4 playing. (B) because he hasnt had the money to build a squad, he has relied endlessly on much the same group (minus the top guys who get sold) for years on end, meaning he can’t rotate. Ever. Never in your life have you seen a squad so tired. This team is burnt out and the world cup made it even worse. Given Klopps teams are built on energy and pressing and not sitting deep, a tired team playing that system resulted in the only thing it would – bad results. Yet after being bottom of the table in November Klopp has taken them to 9th.
The man is a genius. He’s what Brendan Rodgers wishes he was. And we’d be ridiculously lucky to have him manage our football club.
I’ve been a regular visitor to Germany with my work for the last 20 years. I have relatives in Zehlendorf just outside Berlin. I’ll bet a lot of money I’ve watched more live German football than you and know infinitely more about the footballing culture and history. I’m basing this on your comment laden with factoids you just picked up from Wikipedia.
Dortmund are Germany’s third most successful league winning side behind Bayern and Nurnberg (who won nearly all their titles before the war), and the second most successful of the Bundesliga era. By the time Klopp took over in 2008, it’s perfectly true that BVB were not a domestic powerhouse. But it’s all relative. 2008 is only 6 years since their last title. Or to put it another way, by the time Klopp took charge BVB had still won 3 titles between then and when Liverpool last won the main prize in England. Making out they were Rochdale pre-Klopp is bullshit.
“Hamberger, Werder Bremer, Borussia Monchengladbach and Schalke are all bigger clubs historically”
Excrement. Schalke have won one title since the war. Monchengladbach had one golden in era in the 70s and did fuck all before it and fuck all after. Werder Bremen’s success is relatively recent and they have half the number of titles that BVB do. Hamburg – Keegan’s era and pre-war stuff. Still fewer titles than Dortmund.
You’re 0 for 4.
““he only had Bayern to beat & all the rest are shit” is a fucking myth. Schalke reached a champions league semi final & Stuttgart reached a champions league quarter final in addition to the monster of Munich while Klopp’s been at Dortmund.”
The “rest are shit” quote is one you made up. No-one said that. And I don’t think you want to compare the performance of German clubs in the CL during Klopp’s reign in Dortmund. English clubs have provided 12 q/finalists in this period, with Germany 8…but all bar 3 of that 8 were supplied by Bayern.
And all clubs bar the Real/City/Utd/Chelsea/Bayern/Barca and now PSG collective lose their best players to this super-elite set. Look at the players who left Liverpool during the time Klopp’s been with BVB. I’ll see you Sahin and fucking Barrios and raise you a Suarez, Torres, Mascherano and Alonso. It’s ridiculous to pretend this is something Klopp has had to endure alone. (By the way, he decided he had to go now because he was embarrassed about this season’s showing. That’s his words, not mine.)
Likewise with injuries. Yes, this year has been particularly bad for BVB but even that doesn’t explain being fucking bottom at Xmas and still in the relegation zone in February. Liverpool have had to do without both pieces of the partnership that delivered nearly 50 goals last year. Some of the replacement buys might be shit, but even with relative success from those purchases it’s pretty much impossible to replace 50 goals…especially when your main target doesn’t want to come to the club.
None of the above takes away from the fact that Klopp did great stuff at BVB or that he’s clearly a great manager. But it’s just a fact that the top four in England is a more difficult nut to crack than it is in Germany (who also have 4 places in the CL now). Anyone who denies this is either a fool or a knave. England’s top 4 are 4 of the top 7 richest clubs in the world. Germany’s top 4 has 1 of the top 7 – Bayern.
Bang the drum for Klopp if you want, but waving his domestic performance in front of us as if this in any way translates to comparable success in the EPL is just absurd. Rodgers 2nd place last year is both more recent than Klopp’s last success, and in terms of achievement easily comparable to Klopp’s 2011 and 2012 tiles.
Wow seriously?
Winning two leagues and a few cups and a CL final. Beat the biggest ever points total in the Bundesliga at the time to win it, first ever double for the club.
And Rodgers, finishing 2nd, even super Kev Keegan did it
Let’s not pretend both situations are even worth comparing here
Plus – this is never mentioned – the second place was gained without any real contribution from any of Rodgers signings apart from Sturridge and Mignolet. Allen was largely impotent, and Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, Borini, Sahin didn’t contribute. Sterling was iffy but promising and wasn’t a Rodgers signing anyway. Coutino was here and there, and I understood that he had been identified under KD and not Rodgers anyway, all the thrilling stuff was played by men he inherited from the man who was found wanting. In my book 8th and two cup finals beats 5th and fuck all, plus abject surrenders to any club lucky enough to be managed cannily. But that’s just my opinion…
I’d give Rodgers the credit for being able to play a system that maximised Suarez and Sturridge’s brilliance, but my problem is once they’re sold I’m not convinced he can buy the next Suarez or Sturridge to build another team.
His transfers have been largely woeful, TC or not, he finished 2nd with a squad with players that largely weren’t bought under him, and the ones bought under him have been average at best
The fact that for a long time he didn’t rate Sakho, the starting French centre back over some great ones, yet publicly said Lovren was perfect for us, is really alarming in terms of his ability to identify players
As a manager if you cannot spend money wisely or be able to identify talent to build a team then you are in big trouble. 200 million in 3 seasons should mean we have a better foundation to build from in the squad, but we’re still seemingly full of holes in so many areas of the squad
I would dispute that Sahin was a Rodgers loan as the way Rodgers consistently played him in the wrong position, then bombed him out and Sahin spoke out about Rodgers after he went back to Dortmund, make me believe that for some reason Rodgers didnt rate one of the most highly sought after midfielders in Europe!
So highly sought after, that at the end of his loan back to Dortmund they bought him for 5mill without any stampede from Europe’s elite to snap up “one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe”. Strange that.
Why is Klopp the only option, why is Klopp being promoted with articles all over the net , esp LFC fan websites, we are doing a disservice to ourselves without mentioning Benitez.We did it before BR , now we are doing it again, Benitez is to pool what Mourinhi is to Chelsea , Fergie is to Man U and Pep to Barca, no matter where they go they know their home.Benitez fits like a glove ,why the media campaign to deny the man his due?
Because Klopp prefers the same brand of football that Rodgers does, so the roster wouldn’t have to be completely turned over. Because Klopp could bring in some world class players, like maybe Reus and Hummels.
I am not discountng Klopp’s credibility as a manager, but crikey we are a fickle lot. Four games ago, Rodgers was on the end of his unbeaten run and hailed the future. Last season we miss out on the title by two points but everyone is claiming Rodgers is one of the brightest sparks in football management. Yes this season he has made mistakes but as you state he delivers an on par performance. Do we want more, of coure, but I believe our league is a lot more competitive than the Bundesliga due to the money invested in it. It is unfair to compare Rodgers achievements at Liverpool in 3 seasons to Klopp’s in six in a very different league. Rodgers has made mistakes (as do all managers) but as you say the season hasn’t been a complete disaster but on par with expectations so surely he deserves at least one more season.
@Redders – It’s not really about what Rodgers deserves. Gerrard deserves the sentimental long goodbye that we are currently indulging him with, but that doesn’t mean we should be acting as soft as we are either.
As Dave wrote, this about a set of circumstances that have cropped-up. Opportunity may well be asking us to dance and we might be unwise to prevaricate and allow it to find another partner. If we aren’t quite ready to dance yet, then let’s at least drag Klopp to the bar, buy him a pint and find out what he is really looking for.
We’ve got no idea what Rodgers plans are, this Summer. He probably wants to stay and prove his doubters wrong, but we don’t know that for sure. We should be talking to a lot of people, even when we are playing well. Players, managers, scouts, whoever – even if we don’t end up hiring them, we might prevent them joining a rival.
There are several teams that could cause us yet more grief, if they got a manager like Klopp. West Ham for one! A mid-table side with a solid base of support and they will soon be getting a shiny new stadium. If they got hold of Klopp and found a way to bankroll his plans, then we might soon need to start looking over our shoulder in the league.
It would be daft not to at least talk to Klopp.
” It’s not really about what Rodgers deserves. ”
At least partially, it is. If we’re the sort of club up I think we are.
Once a club develops a reputation as not giving managers the time they deserve to develop a winning strategy, you might find the better managers start to give you a wide berth. You can get away with that shit if you’re Madrid or Chelsea (eye watering contracts and transfer kittys of squillions help), but not as one of the pretenders, even one with a heritage like ours.
Klopp will be 5 managers in 7 years at a club that needs to overhaul 4 of the top 7 richest clubs in the world in order to deliver the prize most sought after by the fan base, and do it with less money and ultimately inferior players…oh, and within about 3 years. Thanks.
There are only so many times you can go back to the market with that gig for sale before you discover the best candidates gave all found better opportunities.
I just don’t think it’s realistic for a manager who has not won anything to expect to be given 4 or 5 years, it is down to them to seize the opportunity. Rafa came with a genuine pedigree and hit a home run with his first at-bat. Houllier earned a long spell by winning a ton of silverware early on.
Rodgers is now vulnerable. He’s won nothing and appears to have lost any momentum he once had. Almost nothing is clearly moving in the right direction at the moment, at the club.
Klopp’s had a bad season, but he has banked enough credibility to still be considered a top coach. 2 league titles (and twice runners-up), 4 domestic cup wins and a Champions League final appearance. Crucially, this was achieved at a club that gets gutted each summer (a club like ours, basically).
The worry is that Liverpool FC may be sleep-walking to disaster. Fans expect little to happen in the Summer. Players like Milner and Ings are viewed as major potential coups. These are bang-average players, who we will only get if a better team doesn’t want them. Fans aren’t even that excited about next season, which already looks like an exercise in damage-limitation.
Man United look like they have ridden out the crisis at the club and we may have to target City as the weakest of the top 4 clubs, in the next campaign.
Rodgers just doesn’t seem to be much of a draw for the top-players and neither does the club as a whole, right now. Something big needs to happen, or we will be staring into the abyss this time next year. Rodgers could leave with his head held high. He’s given a decent account of himself and is, to some degree, a victim of circumstance. We have to be ruthless though I think and I can’t recall any manager who wasn’t given a fair crack of the whip by us.
It’s only 3 years ago this club drummed out a manager who DID win silverware in his first couple of years. Let’s not pretend that all youse calling for Klopp would not be doing so had we just won our semi and retained the possibility of an FA cup win this year. For most LFC fans this is about winning the EPL.
Klopp did a great job at Dortmund, but let’s also not pretend that winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund – traditionally Germany’s “second club” – is a stiffer challenge than winning the EPL with Liverpool. The latter is infinitely harder, having to overhaul 4 of the top 7 richest clubs in the world, whereas in Germany (in recent times at least), you finish above Bayern and you’re 99% certain of being champions. Easier said than done, but a damn-site easier than finishing above Utd AND City AND Chelsea AND Arsenal.
“Something big needs to happen, or we will be staring into the abyss this time next year.”
Right there. This is it in a nutshell. So long as there are LFC fans around who regard finishing 5th as “staring into the abyss”, we’ll be on this merry-go-round of managerial changes for decades to come.
“I can’t recall any manager who wasn’t given a fair crack of the whip by us”
You might want to run that one past the managers in question. I suspect you’ll find some dissension, not least from trophy winning Benitez and Dalglish.
What sort of club do you think we are Brownie?
Our recent history is nothing to be proud of.
Good points, however, the changing of managers was due to a lot of unforseen? upheaval at the club, Rafa may have even still be here and I don’t think Roy or Kenny would of become manager.
^^^^indisputable logic^^^^
logic from the lady, emotions clouding the judgement of (i think) the guy.
Up yours stereotypes!!
I don’t think so. It’s not a binary Klopp good, Rodgers bad argument. More Rodgers good, Klopp better.
This article very much shares my point of view leaving aside Rafa for a moment, I feel Klopp is perfect for the FSG model, could attract a higher quality of players and has great European experience. Dortmund’s mauling on Madrid was truly incredible, it has nothing to do with dislike of Rodgers and I’d happily say give him another season if Klopp/Rafa weren’t available this summer.. We are behind the top 4 financially so we need the best possible manager who can punch above our weight, sentiment aside…
We certainly need to punch above our weight right now, and for 2 or three seasons in a row. How else will we then bring in the money on top notch players? We don’t have any world-class players right now. And we need at least two sometime soon.
It was incredibly unlucky that we’re not still talking about Liverpool as champions.
This wouldn’t even be a discussion.
The idea is to replace him with someone who’s gonna finish in the bottom half in Germany??
Klopp has done really well in the past but we’re starting to build something at Liverpool. Don’t risk throwing all that good work away cos circumstances have worked against us this season.
Last season almost changed the game. It really did. If Rodgers had won the title with that squad it would have changed the game. To over take city, Chelsea, arsenal and utd with that team would’ve by miles trumped Dortmunds 2nd to 1st jump.
Say we go for it and we’re in the same position this time next season. Then what?? Sack the manager again??
The overall picture is still really good. He’s shown his way can and will work
@Joe – It wasn’t luck that we didn’t win the league last year. We came close but fell short. You either win or you don’t and the best team pretty-much always wins the league. Last year, it was City, not us, although we would have been nailed-on certs for a beauty contest.
Think of how many games Mourinho’s Chelsea have won in the Premier League over the years by a single goal, having looked second-best on the day. If those games had all been draws, the records would look very different.
They won those games because Mourinho is, first and foremost, a winner. He just finds a way, especially when the stakes are highest. Hard-luck stories lie like road-kill on the route we have followed in the last quarter of a century.
We are back where we usually find ourselves at this time of year. Dispensing ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’, while the usual suspects prepare to divide-up the spoils.
Spot spot on – we are a fan base stuck on what if’s – we didnt win the league last year ffs. Close but no cigar.
People werent using the ‘we came 2nd’ when they were calling for Rafa’s head, oh no, people wanted the club to get rid then and if we’re talking (bizarrely IMHO) about loyalty to a manager, what about loyalty to a man who got us a CL title, FA cup, CL runners up etc etc – that was all out the window then yet we are supposed to just suck it up for a bloke that has not won a thing!!. If Klopp is available and is willing then we would be remiss in our duty to not want the club – remember that, THE CLUB, to go and get him.
The people who wanted to get rid of Rafa are almost certainly the loudest voices calling for Klopp, so I don’t think it is relevant.
Love Rafa, still want Klopp.
I appreciate a survey sample of one doesn’t prove anything, but it still is more credible as a poll than your baseless assumption Tom C
Nonsense. Have been a massive Rodgers supporter since day 1. All that bollocks about Suarez being the one that almost dragged us to the finish line last year is daft. Rodgers had us playing some incredible football, of course, at the expense of our defense. Im fan of Rodgers not just as a person managing the first team but as a representative of the club.
I NEVER WANTED BENITEZ OUT because a) he won us major silverware and b) he knew what the club stood for and fought for it till the end.
Having said that, Klopp at this moment in time, is a better manager, no doubt about that. Times have changed, you just can’t give managers years upon years to fix things. I’d say, for some one who hasn’t won anything for the club, 3 years is about right. Perhaps another year is fair, but alas, when an opportunity like this presents itself, you’d be foolish not to consider it.
“Last season almost changed the game. It really did. If Rodgers had won the title with that squad it would have changed the game. To over take city, Chelsea, arsenal and utd with that team would’ve by miles trumped Dortmunds 2nd to 1st jump.”
Afraid not. English football history is replete with teams coming from nowhere (i.e. not the usual suspects) to win a title, then not winning one again for a generation.
Ipswich ’62; Forest ’78; Villa ’81; Leeds ’92; Blackburn ’95. The only exception to that rule were Derby, who won 2 in the early 70s.
Even Everton ’85 hadn’t looked like winning a title since 1970, and they disappeared again without trace after ’87.
We had our chance in a bunch finish reminiscent of the early 70s – Chelsea and Arsenal also could have won it, Chelsea arguably should have won it, as the win at Anfield would have sufficed had they managed to beat Sunderland at home first – a chance made possible by Man United imploding in an unforeseen and won’t-be-repeated-again-for-a-while fashion. That chance won’t come around again for a while, no matter who’s in charge. However, HAD we won it, this season might still have gone somewhat the same. The unique circumstances were never going to repeat, especially not without Suarez.
Changed the game? I think not. Just another episode in football’s rich history.
Changing managers is not the answer to Liverpool’s lack of success, cultural and business changes are what’s needed. The problems at the club are deep rooted and go beyond any one manager.
I do find it distasteful how some fans are flashing their knickers in the direction of Klopp when we have a manager whom only twelve months ago had us within touching distance of the title. Yes, mistakes where made in the Summer but getting rid of Rodgers at this stage is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Are you serious? Who is the better manager? Klopp is!! And he’d have the stature to tell John Henry to stuff the transfer committee. Unless you like being a feeder club for joints like Barca and not playing in Champions League again for another 5 years.
It’s got nothing to do with whom the better manager is, it’s to do with the policies in place and investment in players. One is wrong, one is too little and until that changes, God Almighty could be in charge of us and we’ll continue to be an also-ran.
I actually think that we have a squad already which, handled properly, could win trophies. But it is not, has not and will not be handled properly by Rodgers. He resisted playing Sakho and Lucad when the need to stuck out like a dogs balls, and only resorted to the bleeding obvious when injury forced it. The immediate improvement in our performances were not due to his tactical brilliance but pure arse. His persistence with Lovren and ignoring Agger and Toure were beyond comprehension, and his use – or lack of it – of Lambert and Borini makes no sense. Plus his absolute trashing of Markovic’s ego is unforgivable. You have to wonder what these people – Sakho, Lucas, Markovic, Agger and not forgetting Wisdom did to deserve it.
People will make up any crap to support their argument.
Sakho has been played every time he’s been available for selection.
Lucas has played most of the time he’s been available for selection but was paired with Gerrard earlier in the season and it didn’t work.
He ‘persists’ with Lovren yet has only played him where injury has forced his hand.
Borini and Lambert have had chances and have failed to take them.
Markovic has not performed in the WB role when playing a three at the back.
Wisdom can’t even force his way in to the WBA team never mind the LFC team.
Agger was not the same player he was pre-injury. He also thought he was bigger than the club with his threats of ‘having to move on’ if he didn’t get first team football.
@KRD – i think you’ll find that Lovren was played non stop until injury forced Rodgers to put Sakho in. Sakho performed but was dropped again once Lovren was fit, hence the derby walk out. Once Lovren’s form descended into farcical, Sakho came back in and stayed there.
Lucas was tipped for sale (again) then he wasnt but he got no game time barring odds and sods. Even as SG was flailing in his ‘QB’ role and games passed him by, Lucas got no look in until we were deep in the shit and hey, guess what, he made the team better!!
Borini & Lambert have been given bit parts in teams not set up to make any use of their limited talents – who’s fault is that.
Agger we all know had disagreements with Rodgers so was bombed out.
I’ve seen nothing of Wisdom so cannot comment
“Borini & Lambert have been given bit parts in teams not set up to make any use of their limited talents – who’s fault is that.”
Um, so we should set up the team to make best use of their “limited talents”?
I hope that works out for you.
“Sakho has been played every time he’s been available for selection.”
What the fuck is this? This is either blatant lies or you havent a fucking clue. Take your pick.
That has to be the most embarrassing thing Ive read on here.
I’d wager that if FSG wants change, managerial change wouldn’t be the only one, the whole structure with shit like TC and what not could very well change as well
I still think if Rodgers is sacked then the new man will be working with a DoF
I wish I could be as staunch as you, its just these circumstances have happened, yes he should get more than 1 year even, if FSG believe in their project, but may be kicking ourselves, if next season is similar and he goes to a rival.
Maybe he is going to take a Pep style sabbatical and become a Brooklyn hipster, which would be perfect, as long as we get first dibs, a decision needs to be made pronto, the pressure is ratcheting up on Brendan and he won’t be able to escape it.
Imagine what Rodgers could have done with a Lewandowski or Gotze at his disposal. Klopp was hopeless without them, just as Rodgers suffered without Suarez or Sturridge.
Rodgers was allowed to purchase numerous players, but only young players on the cheap with plenty of resale value. Sanchez, Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan, ad nauseum were all passed on because we would have to overpay.
There seems no indication that Klopp can infinitely pluck talent from the German youth. It’s not a gamble worth taking.
Klopp bought the likes of Lewandowski Hummels Gundogan Reus and Piscezek himself, apart from Reus all those others are for peanuts. So he’s excused for a few times if a few signings fail
Rodgers has signed average players like Allen Lovren Borini and co, with the odd ones of Coutinho and Sturridge, dare I say Lallana is just a good squad player who is vastly overpriced.
So why are you doubting Klopp’s ability to pluck talent yet defending Rodgers’ signings?
I like Rodgers, i really do, i think we’re heading in the right direction under his stewardship. He has made a few dodgy decisions but he’ll get better, of that, i have no doubt, but how long will it take ? He improves, we improve, then we win the league, ideally within the next couple of years. But if he’s going to take five + years to deliver the title, do we jump ship now ? Or is five years a realistic aim from this point ?
Do we need better players ? Probably. We certainly need a forward, that Rodgers will actually play and isn’t constantly injured, and we’ve a fair few players likely to head out the door this Summer as well, they’ll have to be replaced. So we’re looking at a fairly similar situation to this year where we have to bed in a fair few new players before we have a settled side next season.
If Klopp comes in, will he solve Sturridges injury problems?, or will he be able to make Lovren into the player he was last year ?, or are we supposing that he’ll just make everyone better through the force of his personality like Mourinho does ? Or are we assuming that he will be able to attract better players than Rodgers, to a team that looks likely not to have CL next year ? Does he guarantee the league title in the next two years ?
I really couldn’t say for certain on any of those points.
(I could have saved typing all the above by simply stating “I don’t know what the answer is.” )
Good article though lads, keep up the good work.
Good post Sean M.
Spot on Dave. I like Brendan but you’ve got to be interested in Jurgen Klopp.
The thing with Rodgers is that you feel like he’d be a great long term manager for Soton or Spurs but not Liverpool or Arsenal
He’s as good if not better than Koeman and can probably finish 5-7th consistently given the resources
But the doubt is whether he can compete with the Wengers Van Gaals Mourinhos of the world when it matters, not just on the pitch but shrewdness and appeal in transfers, that’s who he’d have to beat consistently every season to keep us in the CL.
I think he comes up short on that count, and I don’t think Liverpool can really wait or hope that he’d become of that calibre in a few years.
I’d keep him only if a better option isn’t available, but Jurgen Klopp is just superior in almost every way, I’d question the owners’ ambition if they don’t even try for it particularly after the disappointment of this season
People will argue about the constant sackings since Rafa, but apart from the joke that’s Rafa’s sacking, every sacking afterwards has improved the club, whether you agree with it on sentiments or not
I think your being harsh on Koeman there, lots of tipsters felt they may go down this year with their main players being taken but he’s done bloody well there this season.
Question; Where were all the “give him time” posters when one of the club’s most illustrious identities, the only footballer who truly merits a knighthood, came back from exile when LFC was on the bones if it’s arse, got us to 8th when without Gerrard, Suarez, Lucas for much of the season, bought Suarez and Henderson, won a Cup and was robbed in the FA Cup Final? Where were you?
And don’t throw up Carroll and Adam. – Rodgers has signed 10 worse and will continue to do so if allowed.
None are worse than Charlie Adam. None.
Lovren. Easily the worse signing. Think Adam was around 8m and was not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. Lovren was 20, and is quiet bad, though I’m confident there’s talent in there.
No thanks. Kloppo’s ability to inspire the people around the club is special but apart from that he isn’t a better manager than BR. Is there anyone here who has watched other BVB games than the Champions League ones and those against Bayern? I’ve seen him looking totally out of depth several times, especially when facing the fire. Furthermore I don’t think that his counter-attacking style of play fits the Liverpool philosophy. Far from that.
Stay loyal ffs.
What a strange bunch of comments
People have also watched him in the league where he won leagues, but sure cherrypick the ones to suit your point. At the end of the day his record and medals speak for themselves
And front foot pressing, counterattacking transition football doesn’t suit Liverpool? Boy oh boy where to begin……
Winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund isn’t even in the same solar system of difficulty as winning the league with Liverpool. I’m going to keep saying it until it sinks in: any LFC maanger – including Klopp – has to overhaul 4 of the top 7 richest sides in world football to win the EPL. The manager of Dortmund has to be beat Bayern.
I’m not decrying the achievements of a manager I like, but setting Klopp’s Bundesliga titles against Brendan’s zero EPL titles as if you’re even remotely comparing like with like is a joke.
I would strongly argue that in terms of managerial achievement breaking the EPL top four monopoly with a club like Liverpool or Spurs is akin to winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund (at least back when Klopp did it).
I’m sure there’s a bloke who has won 45 Romanian titles with Steaua Bucharest. Maybe we should get him in?
Okay then, go on, tell us about his tactical preferences.
It was astonishing how often he got outwitted this season. Here in Germany, there are quite a few people who say that the true tactical mastermind behind Dortmund’s success is Klopp’s right-hand man Željko Buvač.
Why do I feel the need to go on some justification borefest on Klopp’s “tactical preferences” and the pressing and the 4-2-3-1 and all that to you?
Same sorta people said the same about Rafa and that he was nothing with Paco or Pako, or that Fergie struggled without Queiroz, at the end of the day the manager assembles his coaching team. That’s like saying Reina wasn’t any good because of Rafa coz it was all Xavi Valero
DoraYNWA:
Don’t forget that Rafa is crap with out Pako Ayestarán!
@brownie BR hasn’t only failed to win prem league, he’s failed to win anything.
I have nothing against BR, he’s shown us what he can do but we can’t afford a 70 odd million pound striker and if we did then we’d finish 2nd.
Klopp doesn’t need to beat all of Arsenal City United and Chelsea, he just needs to beat one of them and we’re in the top 4. He beat Bayern for a long time, and Bayern’s stronger than any of those 4
What we need is sustained CL football for a longer term stability and sustainability of challenging for the league. Then the question is whether you think Klopp or Rodgers is better equipped to do that, and if anyone answers anything but the former then they have rocks in their heads
And you are completely devaluing his achievements of winning the Bundesliga, twice, with a team that was on the verge of extinction and a relegation candidate when he took over. You talk all that stuff then somehow equate what he did to some hypothetical 45 Romanian titles, I know there are Rodgers defenders out there but at least try talk some sense
You’re missing their point Brownie. Klopp is just flavour of the month because he is available. The hatred for Rodgers, and I do mean hatred comes from somewhere else completely. Maybe they were always there and modern technology has just brought them to the fore but sometime I’m embarrassed to be associated with some of these people. Is this what supporting LFC has become. At least the comments of this site are intelligent even if you don’t agree with the point, but some of the other forums out there are just bile.
True for some but not all of the posters Joe. I like Brendan as my post history shows, I just think Klopp could be an upgrade.
You’re right, that point is beginning to stink, actually it always has.
It is difficult to win the prem. It is difficult to win the Bundesliga, and it is difficult to win La Liga.
One could argue that it is more difficult to win the Bundesliga and La Liga because the top teams in that league DO NOT LOSE, or very often. Thing about the prem. How many times to do we have ‘shock’ results when a bottom half team beats a top 4? Fairly often. Sure the prem might be a tougher more competitive league, but I’d argue its just as hard to win Bundesliga and La Liga if you’re not one of the mega clubs. Look at what Benitez did with Valencia, and no one’s doubted his managerial pedigree since then.
Are you seriously comparing the Bundesliga with the Romanian top division?
Haven’t German teams outperformed English teams in the CL in recent years?
Didn’t Germany win the WC with a squad consisting largely of players based in the Bundesliga?
Answers on a postcard please.
I would have thought the “45 titles” made it abundantly clear that this comment was tongue in cheek, but the basic point stands. Dortmund are the second most successful team of the Bundesliga era. Since LFC last won the league, Dortmund had won it 3 times before Klopp even took over. They’d had a couple of rough years and Klopp did great things with them, including obviously the back-to-back titles, but the manager of Drotmund in Germany is not facing the same task as the manager of Liverpool in England when it comes to winning the domestic title. For one, the BVB manager is not battling against 4 of the top 7 richest sides in the world. He’s battling one (and Bayern are a far better team now than they were in 2011/12). And the quality in the Bundesliga tails off the further down the league you go. It’s an all-round less competitive league. This is not controversial to anyone who knows and understands football. BVB can finish behind Bayern, Schalke and Wolfsburg and still qualify for the CL. They just have to do better than Bremen. LFC has to do better than one of Arsenal, City, Utd or Chelsea. During the period Klopp has been in charge, the EPL has supplied 12 CL q/finalists, and the Bundesliga 8. All bar 3 of those were Bayern.
All facts and all stats underscore the reality that LFC getting top 4 in the EPL bucks the trend and defies footballing logic in a way that is doesn’t if BVB do the same in Germany.
Do you know a little German? If so, ask him.
It’s the style which enabled us to finish 2nd last season.
We’ll all be tabloid Kloppites…small price to pay.
BR is quite good.
Klopp is brilliant.
Do we want a Stuart Downing or a Luis Suarez?
The point nobody seems to be discussing whenever Klopp comes up is whether he would be willing to work within the ‘Transfer Committee’ structure. I’d imagine he would have no interest in coming to Liverpool if he can’t make the transfer decisions. Then, if he would be willing to accept that structure, there is no way of knowing if he will be any more effective than Rodgers under that structure. Whether the current LFC failings fall to Rodgers or the committee is still up for debate.
Bottom line, for eitehr Rodgers or Klopp to be effective at LFC, the transfer structure in the club must be reformed.
I’m not convinced the transfer committee actually inhibits Rodgers. He said all alpng that he had the final say on purchases, and I believe his ego – and even his strongest supporters must admit his ego is ginormous – would not brook being overridden. And if you consider the vast majority of buys and loans since he was appointed, they are his type of player. Sakho isn’t but he was too good a prospect to ignore. And I also don’t buy the suggestion that he didn’t want Balo; BR fancies himself as a man manager and the opportunity to show he could do with Mario what better credentialed managers could not would have been right up his street, surfing on the 2nd place wave and believing he was going to win the EPL this season. In any event, no manager worth a candle would badmouth a player mid-season, or say he didn’t want him.
Bill Shankly followed Phil Taylor, a manager who took over when we were in Div 2. I think he managed for 4 years and finished 3rd three times and 4th once. Only two teams were promoted in those days. Taylor resigned because the pressure of trying for promotion and failing were too much for him. Shankly was not a top manager at the time, had only managed lower division teams. He was passionate, though. I don’t know what inspired the new chairman to engage Shankly, it may even have been Matt Busby, who was a former Liverpool player and knew Shankly well. Whatever it was, it was what made Liverpool what it became.
Like Gareth Roberts’ article, there will always be those who irrationally hate Rodgers, then there are those who will irrationally defend him. To me, I would only keep him if we can’t get someone better, and Klopp is definitely better, despite the spin people try to do to make it look like they’re the same calibre
It’s like when Soton was trying to keep their heads above the water with Nigel Atkins who did wonderfully well to get them promoted, but they sacked him and got someone better coz he’s available, who got far more outta the squad. And they’re reaping the rewards from it still