NEIL ATKINSON, Gareth Roberts, Paul Cope and Steve Graves are in for this week’s podcast, reflecting on an encouraging victory over Crystal Palace as the Reds march on in the FA Cup.
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The big thing to keep in mind with Allen is that it’s been a nightmare of a campaign for him from an injury and playing-time perspective, and that he’s still trying very much to round himself into some kind of form. He hurt his knee playing on that awful pitch in Andorra in September and has missed time on and off ever since — I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an issue he’s still managing to some extent.
At the moment, he’s very much still working his way back from injury and getting minutes under his belt — it’s an unfair situation in which to judge or evaluate any player. I definitely rate him and think, when fit and playing well, he’s a critical player to have in the squad — he’s a good footballer, can play virtually anywhere in central midfield and doesn’t mind coming off the bench or missing games when others get the nod ahead of him.
Totally agree. Great squad player with the potential to be more. Much better than Fletcher or O’Shea!
Firstly, I know it’s been said a thousand times but thanks for getting the podcast out early and Gareth’s match review came on very soon after the final whistle. I think people appreciate it because one wants to talk about the match in the immediate aftermath or early the next day. So, thanks for giving your time for our benefit. It is appreciated even if we all just moan about everything.
Talking of moaning, I’m sure most people reading this will have read the comments on Gareth’s match review and although I don’t want to repeat myself but I am slightly irate. I can honestly say, by now, we know how Neil reads the game and I was expecting him to back Allens corner after yesterday. But then his answer told a thousand stories. Exactly why I’ve started to avoid going out to watch matches. We get 180 minutes a week at most of Liverpool playing. I just wanna get right in the zone and take it all in, not be stood in a pub with someone down my ear talking shit, as happened during the derby. I can’t say how any player did in the derby. I remember nothing (trying to take my jeans off at 4am and crashing through the dressing table might be partly responsible) but the point is, as previously stated, I watched Allen like a hawk yesterday. Every time he got the ball I thought ‘Allen’s on the ball, what’s he gonna do with it’. My view is, it’s easy to miss Allen’s role in the same way a hell of a lot of people still miss Henderson’s role. It depends how you watch a match. All I want to say further on the matter is, watch the MOTD highlights with the view of scrutinising when Allen appears on it. Or better still, ask the brilliant James Pearce. Like everyone, I slated Rodgers in November and Mignolet and Lovren throughout the season but it fucks me off when people wanna destroy the career of a good Liverpool squad player when it’s unnecessary. Both Can and Mignolet have said this week they read social media and read what people are saying about them. You’re daft if you don’t think any of them listen to this. Don’t get me wrong I’m not talking about opinions on the podcast, no chance. I’m talking of Liverpool fans who get an idea on a player that’s not substantiated at that point in time and inadvertently knock the players confidence, helping that viewpoint to actually come true. We saw the effect of pressure earlier in the season on many of the players. I suppose it’s unrealistic to ask us all to be more responsible because we’re football fans and this is what we do. Just leave Joe Allen alone though, haha.
On a similar vein, I completely understood Mario’s behaviour on Tuesday. He has a specific make up that makes him react in a certain way. Let’s not forget, or write out of history, how we treated him on all the social media platforms and us on here. He’s a proud man. He’s not gonna join in a celebration like he’s part of something that’s achieved something. He wasn’t, we made that clear. We hurt his feelings and he wanted to let us know. Good on him. He gave us a clue when he said on Instagram ‘this smile is only for the ones who stood by my’. But throughout the week the Liverpool family, ahem, have rallied round him and I thought he was noticeably giving absolutely everything to the cause yesterday. He was absolutely delighted with it all. It was another brilliant moment for our squad along with the Moreno dance and the Vine of Sakho giving his shirt to the young lad. Coupled with Can coming out in the press (let me finish before I break a thousand scouse girls hearts) saying how much he’s loving it all at the minute and Sakho videos of him giving up his time to help a community project, everything feels brilliant a the minute. I love this young squad and I think they’re all enjoying their careers at the minute. And yes, Rodgers has to take the credit for that.
One final thing, Gareth’s absolutely right about the forwards but during these Tom Werner interviews this week, I sensed something which may or may not be true. He was asked about transfers and he said something along the lines of ‘obviously, the policy will have to adapt in certain situations’ (my wording but definitely similar). I took that to mean maybe we’ll have to change when it comes to strikers. They’re not daft. They want success for Liverpool regardless of who they think the eventual beneficiaries of that will be. They saw what Suarez and Sturridge can do for a side. They saw what having no strikers does for a team. I think they may make an exception to their wage structure for a striker if we can find one.
I find the whole Allen debate and indeed similar situations with other players troubling.
There are reasonable people around who hold the view that Allen doesn’t bring enough to the party to be a first 11 player or even be in the squad, but most of the dissenting voices are idiots jumping on a band wagon and giving dogs’ abuse to someone who always puts in the graft, happy to do whatever is asked of him by the manager. I find it distasteful.
In my view Allen is a decent player, and when match fit, does not fit the stereotype peddled by many. Last year he played in a midfield 3 with Lucas and Henderson that outplayed and outfought powerful, Spurs and City midfields. He played pretty well against Palace, Certainly a solid 7 out of 10 performance for me, if not MOTM as some might want to call it.
There seems to be a big overlap between Allen’s most vociferous detractors and those always looking for the opportunity to slag off the manager. I think somehow Allen has become emblematic of something bigger in some peoples minds, hence the need to slag him or defend him more than his performances might justify.
On the point of Mario’s lack of celebration, he has said in the past that he doesn’t celebrate goals because he is just doing his job, “does the postman celebrate when he posts a letter?”
Haha, yeah I’ve heard that about Mario but if you watch him yesterday he punched the air after Lallana scored. Couldn’t help himself because deep down he was made up. Then he thought ‘my guard’s down now, might as well just enjoy it’. I loved that smile yesterday. It gave me a warm feeling. One best described as a feeling I got seeing the smile on the face of East European orphans being handed shoe boxes full of Christmas presents. I’m glad he’s happy. Obviously he’ll have to keep scoring and assisting or he can fuck right off. Yeah, I feel for Allen too, mate. Did I mention he was a family friend, haha. It’s just that when he signed for us he went to play in the Olympics and I watched all his games and was pleased we were getting him. Then he started really well for us . For about 7 games he looked really good. Then his form dipped and it was revealed he’d picked up an injury and it possibly explained why he’d slumped. Last season he got another injury near the start of the season but his coming back tied in with the start of the form that got us 2nd place. I’m certainly not saying he was the catalyst in that but he was a cog in the machine. He hasn’t had a great season this year but then who has. I think he’s the kind of character to do better in a side playing well. He’ll always be an easy scapegoat when we don’t win because he’s not the type to stamp his authority on the game and lift the team, just goes about his business. So, my conclusion is simply, he’s showed enough signs of what he can do even if he hasn’t brought the house down. Lucas got injured, then Gerrard. That could have been worrying but in fairness Allen came in and did well yesterday. I suppose he’s a player who divides and I can see both sides of the story. I was pleased he did well. Something in the back of my mind (a hunch rather than anything scientific) tells me Allen and Henderson are the better combination for this dynamic team. Plus it suits my agenda of ridding the team of anyone over 25.
You could genuinely replace ‘Allen’ with ‘Gerrard’ and your comment would work just as well.
This is why this is the best forum out there. Intelligent well written views & opinions by people who clearly actually watch the game in full, and probably like myself watch it a second time after the emotion is taken out of it. It’s incredible the amount of people I hear voicing their views on games & performances that they havn’t actually watched. And if you’ve been down the Pub then you havn’t watched the games, really you havn’t. I have a mate spends the whole game on twitter and then tells me that Allen was shite. it’s just so infuriating.
Great show, agree with argument but not the example:wasn’t Suarez the cheap Aguero?
Running sides; 87/88: Houghton, Barnes, Beardsley, Nicol, McMahon….Heighway, Case, Terry Mac, Keegan, Neal.
Appalling story about Gerrard. He can never forgive Rafa? For what? Doing his job? Putting the team first? Fucking hell. No wonder we haven’t won the league for so long.
“No wonder we haven’t won the league for so long.”
Yeah, if only that c**t from Huyton had joined Chelsea in 2005 we’d be sitting here with a hat-trick of EPL titles.
I hadn’t had that story before. Doesn’t matter that it’s Gerrard, my reaction would have been the same had it been Xabi, Nando, Tommy Smith! You don’t win titles with whining cunts questioning the manager’s decision making.
I’d love to know what the source is for this “never forgive” comment. I suspect there’s a reason neither you nor I have heard the story before. I have a distant memory of Gerrard saying he didn’t agree with that substitution – in fact, I’m struggling to remember anyone other than Rafa who did – but not that he’d “never forgive” him for it.
I love Rafa and would have him back at Anfield in a heartbeat if things went sour with Rodgers, but there was a period where his substitutions looked like they were being done for a bet.
The source, Brownie, is ‘Steven Gerrard: My Liverpool Story’.
Full quote: “Rafa Benitez pushed me more than any other manager I have had in my career and at the time he came to Liverpool I needed that.
“He didn’t ever give out any credit but he made me a better more rounded player who could play in a variety of positions and appreciate what being a team player was all about.
“At times we didn’t always see eye to eye, and I will never forgive him for substituting me against Everton at Goodison Park in 2007.
“Lucas, who replaced me, earned the penalty that enabled us to win 2-1 but I felt the decision was disrespectful because I was playing well.”
So Gerrard can’t forgive Rafa – so what? I doubt Rafa loses any sleep over it. I am one of those ‘hard hearted’ supporters who only want us to win, and to pick someone on sentiment or past glories is not what I pay my money for. When I walk down the steps of the Main Stand after the match I don’t want to be saying “not a great game but at least Gerrard played”. I have been fortunate to see Gerrard play in his pomp – a truly great player, but he’s past it now and I want Rodgers to build a side to win the league, and that doesn’t include Gerrard.
You’re right, I’m sure Rafa didn’t lose any sleep over it. Maybe I over-reacted, maybe I’m a little old-fashioned, I just don’t like hearing stories like this leaking out of the club. No player should ever think they’re bigger than the club. Agree with you about the rest of the season.
I’m assuming this was in one of the auto/biographies. They’re a blight on the modern game. Wait until you’ve finished playing for fuck’s sake.
You didnt overreact. That he never forgave an elite manager – without whom he’d have never won the biggest prize in the game – for having the temerity to take him off is moronic. His lack of effort in Rafa’s last 12 games was vile. As was his reaction to the substitution of Torres. As was his transfer request. As was using the media in an effort to bully FSG into awarding him the contract he wanted at 34 years of age. There is a reason former teammates call him “Stevie Me” in private. All this will be air brushed from history by the fan bhoys though. Loves the club apparently. Only on his terms I’d suggest. Which don’t get me wrong is fine for 99% of footballers, but not one club footballers who profess constantly their love & pride at being captain of said club & revel at being put on a higher level by that clubs supporters. But he’s never held to a higher standard where his above behaviour is concerned.
The idea floated on the pod that Gerrard must play as he might harm team morale by having a face on him come Monday morning puts on display many of our supporters immense hypocrist where the captain is concerned. Can you imagine such guff being offered up as a reason as to why Mario Balotelli must play? Oh the humanity! The media coverage!
“Balo must start otherwise team spirit in the dressing room would collapse”
Not withstanding of course on current form one of them has claims to get a lot more game time than the other. But then he’s not named Gerrard.
PS: from the last 12 games we’ve taken 25 points. So have Arsenal. So have Utd. The gap between us and 4th has not closed a single point. In fact we are in a worse position now than we were then as the goal difference deficit has grown & we obviously have much less games to overhaul those in front. This after a middle third of the season in which so many have become so positive. As I’ve said, that just shows how utterly disgraceful the opening third of the campaign was.
We also now come in to a phase with some difficult games back to back to back for the first time since November. The manager hasnt rotated because he is incapable of doing so & as a result we are beginning to look tired. In February. Looking at this you couldnt be hopeful of 4th.
I thought the whole point of spending over £100m in the summer was so that we can rotate? Injuries to Lucas & Gerrard are a result of being overplayed. Sakho is a cert to pull up with a muscle injury soon, as in Coutinho.
We also have Europe back on the agenda. Looking at Rodgers previous efforts in two competitions on the continent you couldnt be hopeful of success here either. Lets see.
Light the blue touch paper eh Chris?
I’m sure someone else will pitch in to defend Gerrard from your attack.
You seem to have found a way to demonstrate that Liverpool are not improving and heading up the league! Interesting choice of time period over which to make your assessment.
You could have instead highlighted that after 17 games we were 10th, 9 points off 4th and 10 points off 3rd, whereas now, 8 games later, we are 4 points off 4th and 5 points off 3rd. Puts a slightly different gloss on it, don’t you think?
“There is a reason former teammates call him “Stevie Me” in private.”
Because you have a hotline to Alonso and Garcia and the rest, right?
“Eh Luis, isn’t it time we phoned that Chris Mc hombre and filled him in on the latest?”
And I think you need to re-calibrate “vile”. What ISIS are doing in Syria is “vile”. A minor display of puzzlement at the substitutions made by your football manager really isn’t.
His transfer request in 2005 came after the club had stalled on a new deal for more than 6 weeks. Gerrard committed himself to the club that night after Istanbul and Parry didn’t put a contract in front of Struan Marshall until late June. It’s that simple.
I think Gerrard must have stolen your lunch money at Whiston Junior, or something.
Yep brownie. Perhaps Stevie nicked his bird. A lot of bile on here, lads. Not sure why.
We wouldn’t have the conversation about Balotelli because Balotelli quite clearly doesn’t have the influence and standing of Steven Gerrard.
My first thought was to check the books and I found nothing. Doesn’t mean it’s not there (his first autobiog only goes up to 2007), but I’ll be astonished if this “never forgive” stuff is anything more than anecdotal.
Gerrard will probably never agree it was *right* to take him off in that derby, and he’d be right if he did think that, but that’s a million miles away from “never forgive”. I suspect this was poetic licence by Neil.
See above.
Fair enough and fair dos. I can’t find my copy (probably been car-booted) and ‘Gerrard: My Autobiography’ stops at 2007. Read in context it’s still more of a “will never accept” “will never get over” rather than “I’ll hate him forever”. Gerrard and Benitez clearly had disagreements but there’s no lack of respect on either side, as the passage quoted makes clear.
It was still a bullshit decision, fwiw, and any player in Gerrard’s position who wasn’t pissed off at that substitution shouldn’t be playing. This is still mountain and mole-hill territory so far as I’m concerned and ex-players have said far worse about their former managers. It doesn’t reveal anything about Gerrard’s ‘character’. If he’d have sulked and thrown his toys out of the pram following the substitution that would be a different matter. As it is, a week later he was man of the match against Arsenal scoring our only goal. Because that’s how great players respond to those situations.
Didn’t mean to light the blue touch paper after what was a genuinely heartening win on Saturday. The game was great, Sakho’s gesture was great, Brendan having his photo taken with the fans was great, the celebrations at the end of the game was great, and the passage of keep-ball towards the end was one of the best things I’ve seen all season. I was genuinely pissed off by the Gerrard story though: why do they do it? More to the point, why do clubs let them do it? I’d feel the same about Ferguson or Rooney if I were, god forbid, a manc. I just don’t get it. If you must write a ghosted autobiography, wait until you’ve retired. Same goes for Carra too btw.
I actually agree with the ‘wait until you’re retired’ sentiment. I’m waiting for: “Raheem Sterling: The First 24 Months”.
Brilliant
Yes Raheem’s should be a fantastic read, but Lambert’s ” I scored at Villa – and other late substitute appearances” will be a corker.
Boss podcast, but that’s nothing new…
Found myself wanting to hear mention Lucas’s name when we were remembering that we’re winning without missing players who are really good – or did I miss his mention? He’s still to come back and we’ll be all the stronger for it again, though Allen is doing fine at the mo and could yet kick on even more.
PoF – Stevie G, a “whining cunt”? Jesus. Totally uncalled for language about one of our greatest ever players and spoils the generally good points you make.
Good win on Saturday, now let’s batter Besiktas!
Mea culpa. A little intemperate.
I’ve just seen your post regarding Lucas. It’s a very good point.
I posted something …Sorry, tweeted similarly echoed sentiment to or @The Redmen tv .. And yes I’m new to twitter as my use of language no doubt indicates…
My point was that Lucas very much reminded the team how to get results. They seem to have taken that mentality, know how and most importantly belief into games.
I can’t wait to have him back but I really feel that his influence is still present.
His doubter flummoxing legacy continues
‘Never forgive’ is a hyperbolic phrase that in everyday usage means ‘I was disappointed’ as opposed to ‘I hate his effing guts.’ But good management is about managing a game, and substituting a player even if he is having a good game as a tactical ploy is good management. Playing a player because of who he is is not. I don’t believe it is coincidental that Steven affects Hendersons game negatively, and the brewing debate on whether Lucas is a better bet than Allen is intriguing. Lucas out – defence is jittery, Lucas in, Sakho flourishes and Skrtel is a rock. Plus Coutino shines. Plus we stop conceding and start winning. I think Allen is a good squad player with a role to play, but not as a linchpin.
Shankly adored Liddell, but he dropped him. Gerrard has been a wonderful player but is no longer, not in the role he usually plays. And although his occasional spectacular free kick goals are glorious, his taking of corners irritates the life out of me because they are usually wasted and he should be lurking outside the box as an impact substitute.
Agreed. I’d like to see how Lovren performs in a three behind Lucas and Henderson, given his alleged outburst earlier this season. Not in an important game, Besiktas, perhaps.
Yep, I would bet money that Lovren in that three behind a Lucas and in front of a re-born Mignolet would look a different player to what we’ve seen so far. That has to be the plan for the long term with maybe Can taking over from Lucas. Can has done brilliantly but ultimately he is not a defender as can be seen from Palace’s goal on Saturday. Maarkovic let’s Gayle run inside him, Can doesn’t pick up and Skrtel is left trying to make up for both errors. So it’s Markovic’s and Can’s fault, yet at the same time it is neither of their faults as neither is a defender. Sooner or later, if you keep asking non-defenders to perform defensive duties these things will happen.