IT’S a debate that has been going on for years. How do we reclaim The Kop? How do we bring back the famous atmosphere that made Anfield different, that made it special and so revered?
It’s a debate that needs to be had. Yet it’s a debate that always goes the same way. Before we get anywhere, before realistic and achievable solutions are discussed or proposed it breaks down into the age old bullshit: the Scousers v the Wools.
In his match review of the Besiktas game, Gibbo rightly pointed out the moment sections of Thursday’s Anfield crowd delivered the ultimate in ironic statements. After Mario Balotelli had slotted his unnecessarily ‘controversial’ penalty, a section of attendees belted out one of the most cringe worthy of generic football songs: “You’re not singing anymore.”
It’s a small-time chant that has regularly been mocked by Liverpool fans. And here it was, loud and proud within the confines of our ground.
No matter that Besiktas had been followed 2,000 miles by what was probably the most vocal set of away supporters Anfield has witnessed this season. No matter that these fans had (literally) lit up Liverpool with songs, flags and flares earlier in the day. No matter that there was little evidence of the famous Anfield atmosphere for a European night coming from the Liverpool fans for most of the evening.
On the pitch Besiktas were no disgrace either. Organised, efficient, effective, Mario’s late penalty aside it was so close to being the perfect away performance in Europe. Some of their play was, rightfully, applauded by (some of) The Kop.
So why then were so many trotting out a ditty that has been frowned upon for years? Why were this group attempting to take the piss out of a decent team and impressive support in such an unoriginal way? It wasn’t funny, clever or befitting of the occasion.
I can’t get on onboard with the Scouser v Wool fingerpointing that followed. Why? Because I know Reds that live and breathe the club. Know what should be sang and what shouldn’t. Respect the traditions. Know their stuff. They don’t buy The Sun and they’re happy to tell everyone why. They support the ticket prices campaign. Some are from Liverpool and some are from Australia. Some have a purple bin and some don’t.
Put simply, there are those that get it and those that don’t in both camps. A snarling Scouse lad in a North Face telling Henderson he’s shite at every turn, calling Rodgers a fraud and then deciding he’s too cool for school to contribute to an atmosphere? Boss that.
An old bloke from Anfield that bangs on about Billy Liddell and Bill Shankly rather than back the current lads wearing Red? Great.
An out of towner singing the wrong words to Scouser Tommy and belting out tactical advice for 90 minutes? Played.
And most of the Anfield Road singing Soccer AM inspired shite like ‘Who are yer?’. Just no.
Sadly I’ve witnessed all of the above. And sadly it feels like we’re witnessing the homogenisation of the football crowd. Speak to fans of other clubs. The Emirates is quiet. Old Trafford is quiet. The Etihad is hardly a cauldron of passion. All of the above are witnessing the same transformation. A once vocal, knowledgeable crowd transformed and infiltrated by people who happily wear half and half scarves. Who consume football rather than support it. Who turn up now and again and leave. Who have little interest in rivalries and traditions and generally just ‘getting it’ and instead want the event, the product, the picture for Facebook and the You’ll Never Walk Alone for YouTube.
Time was that Liverpool fans were regarded as ‘intelligent’ about the game. They were collectively seen as different, as funny, as witty, as sharp. All this seems to be dying a slow death. Why? Insert theory here. I’ll offer a few. It’s difficult, verging on impossible to go to the game at Anfield as a group. Groups start songs. Groups are funny. But few big groups are watching the game together at Anfield. For contrast, witness the Reds away from home – especially the more far flung destinations. Loads of fans have travelled as a group, had a bevy, had a laugh and five or six hours later they arrive in good spirits armed with songs. New songs, old songs, funny songs. And they’re belted out with gusto.
Then there’s the price. I moan about it. But I pay it. I waited approaching to close to 20 years for a season ticket in my own name. But there’s no way I can take my son or daughter to the game because of price, practicality and availability of adult-child seats. So I don’t. Where once the likes of my lad might have been schooled in the traditions of the Kop from an early age – for reference my best mate has had a season ticket since he was eight – now he’s unlikely to be going regularly for years to come. If he’s interested by then that is. And by then, maybe ‘you’re not singing…’ and ‘who are yer?’ are the norm rather than the exception.
Meanwhile, tickets that could have blooded the next generation of the clued up Red simply fall into the hands of the highest bidder. Whether that’s via Thomas Cook, touts or elsewhere on the secondary market. The passing down of support through the generations is now a much more difficult task than it’s ever been before.
So what’s the solution? It’s easy to say the atmosphere is crap compared to what it once was but of course it depends on what game is compared to what game. There have been dismal atmospheres down the decades – the football dictates so much. But that point acknowledged there still feels like there has been a deterioration in the basics. Once, not so long ago, almost every player was greeted by The Kop with a rendition of their song during the warm up. This would be duly acknowledged and everyone was happy. Them because they felt liked, us because it felt like they gave a fuck.
Now we have men with microphones delivering team news like a wrestling show. We have theme music. We have a mutant cormorant lurking with intent on the sidelines. And all that has put an end to a long-standing tradition.
The red nets, the old This is Anfield sign, their return was welcome and needed. But maybe we need to get back to some other Liverpool traditions too. Could there be an unreserved section at Anfield? A pay on the day area that could encourage younger, more vociferous groups to congregate and, you know, sing? Is there a way to get more kids through the turnstiles? Should safe standing be given some thought (as opposed to the unsafe standing that goes on now…how are your shins these days?).
Songs. Where have they gone? Where’s the imagination and the wit? Why do you hear them in pubs more than the ground?
What can be done to address all this? What are all the answers? I don’t have them. But what I do know is that letting all this fade away, letting Liverpool and the Kop become just another club and just another stand, would be a crying shame.
You’re not singing anymore? Sadly at Anfield that all too often seems to be the case. And when that singing is *that* song maybe it’s for the best.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda
You’ve hit the nail on the head in every respect. Nothing to add other than “well done”, man.
I’m from the U.S. but was lucky enough to see the Reds while I did my study abroad semester. I loved Liverpool already and was prepared to forego any travel that the other Americans were doing to random corners of Europe to save the money for tickets and buses to see LFC. Unfortunately, I was one of those people just consuming it for my first time at Anfield. 5-0 over Swansea. A glorious game. But I didn’t sing nearly enough, I pulled my camera out for Stevie’s pen, I didn’t stand. But then I got myself to an away game – Wigan, and we blew them out of the way as well! – and I realized how much I loved aways. I loved meeting all those people as we went in the ground early, I love the nonstop singing, the home fans hatred of us. I’m back in the U.S. now but I miss it all, but the aways especially, almost every day. Its the pieces on here that make me miss it most. I can’t believe that I was part of this problem for my first game but now I want so badly to help fix it. I hope more people read this because I want to see that magical atmosphere at Anfield. I want to be back there and help! Great post.
great article! says more about the rise and rise of football as a middle class past time than most political leaders can even comprehend.
Wow! Brilliant article, Gareth. Everyone who cares about Liverpool Football Club should read it.
After the huge high of the 2013-14 season, the short few months of the early 2014-15 season when there was profound disappointment over the departure of Luis Suárez; Sturridge’s recurring injuries; the ugly media attention on Sterling caused by Hodgson; the squad struggling to integrate several new players and having a run of poor form; Stevie’s announcement; fans engaging in bitter, angry, frustrated, negative venting on social media all contributed to a jaded, cynical loss of enthusiasm that has settled in and taken hold. Addictive preoccupation with capturing selfies and video clips on mobile devices vs. being actually present in the moment at the football game also doesn’t help.
Personally, I think the Scousers vs Wools thing is one of the most damaging components. It’s symptomatic of small-club thinking, of some fans thinking of themselves as better or more authentic than others. Liverpool Football Club has always exemplified that no player is bigger than the Club. Likewise, no fan or group of fans is bigger than the Club as an organic whole.
Liverpool is among the elite group of top EPL clubs that have a truly global reach. There are fans in Asia, Australia, and America who get up at ridiculous hours to meet at pubs to watch every game together, or watch or listen in their homes or at work. They make huge sacrifices to perhaps visit Anfield once in their lifetime. They loyally buy the kits that bring in the money that helps to finance the team. As long as local Liverpool fans continue to perpetuate an us vs. them mentality, Anfield will never reclaim the unique atmosphere that made the club stand out and aroused fear in the hearts of opponents when they emerged from the tunnel.
I sincerely hope this won’t happen. I sincerely hope the Club realises that Liverpool FC is nothing without the fans and takes steps to make tickets truly affordable. The biggest, most beautiful stadium is just a cold empty shell if it isn’t filled with the heart and soul, the love and passion that the fans bring with them as they enter through the turnstiles.
This comment is even more spot on than the article.
Agreed, this comment is much better than the article.
That’s really made me sad. Most of my childhood memories were about going to the game. The experience was before and during the game not the preboxed shit like theme music, cheerleaders & plastic flags.
What we are witnessing is the Americanization of sport. Go to a baseball or football game and every cheer, chant or song is pre done, they sing for a minute then sit down and enjoy the experience.
Football is losing its soul and it’s sad to see. I wish LFC would take the lead on this and get kids and fans back in the game.
Americanization? You mean the Americans that saved the club from bankruptcy?
Don’t be petty and condescending. As the author mentioned, there’s plenty ‘local’ support to be blamed for the poor atmosphere.
David, with all due respect, I don’t think Alan was ripping on the American supporters/fans. It was the Americanization of the sports (i.e. the sport is there for capitalistic entertainment). I think it is quite fair and something I complain about events (sporting, concerts, etc.) as well. These events are all made now to bring in the money from the upper middle class, most of whom are not passionate supporters of the team/club. They are there to have comfortable entertainment. They won’t stand. They don’t have any desire to be part of the atmosphere. No matter the event, people go to be seen instead to see and experience the event. To get to your point, I don’t think this is an American phenomenon. As the writer noted, this is an issue that even locals struggle with now.
Get a grip yourself and stop being so precious. It’s clear Alan means the sport has become entertainment media to sell to TV and advertisers, rather than exist for its own ends. You must be a latecomer. In the 80s the game wasn’t even on the TV, it was doing just fine and LFC had their best team in their entire history, ruined by drunken yobs and violence going back into the 70s.
Yes what about an unreserved section for fans from around the world who dream every day to be just part of that magic atmosphere. Sadly that may never happen as the proud traditions seem to be vanishing in pursuit of short term gains in this era of Facebook where the need to be seen and the chase for money are overriding. You’ll Never Walk Alone.
True Red
Bang on Gareth.
Watching from afar on beIN sports, I also grimaced at the said response. Nicky Alt also sent a Tweet in line with Gibbo. As you state, it has become an age old debate and apart from the “big games” and (or) European nights, the atmosphere is very much muted. However, this season, including CL, it appears that even those nights are not able to stir the passion of vocal support.
At the same time I do think that there is an element of myth; with regards to the atmosphere. There has been a gradual erosion of the heydays from the 60s, 70s when there were 28,000 standing on the kop and “wool” songs never in the repertoire.
Even so, we had the Anfield Rd Enders chanting “kopites are gob*hites” at moments of none vocal support. Players criticizing the lack of vocal support and letters from fans in the “pink” deriding such criticism and suggesting the style of play did not arouse the passion – it takes two to tango. The tradition of LFC kicking into the kop for 2nd half and having the crowd “suck in” the ball, providing the 12th man is sadly no more.
It is a different world of course and whilst there is nothing wrong with change, the observations for lack of atmosphere are all too apparent for those of us who remember the “good old days”. We could all list at least 10 reasons for the decline in atmosphere, of which some could be mitigated, others irreversible.
Who was it who said, I am fast falling out of love with football and don’t look forward to the match for the crack, enjoyment and what the game has become? Still we have the extension to the stand and additional support to increase the vocal support.
“That” song…. that fucking song…. I so hope I am wrong, but Anfield has now turned a corner from which it may never come back. I didn’t think I could feel any worse about the atmosphere the other night and then, ironically on the cue of some fans actually singing, I did… my jaw dropped, it was one of our worst moments in years, no exaggeration. Let’s be honest, a very good and extremely well written article, but could have been written – “that” song aside – any time in the last what? 15, 20, more years? With specific notable exceptions, Anfield has been heading this way for a very long time. It just shows how saying something enough times, by the right people in the right place can establish a “fact” in the publics head. But ask any away fan of a league game to Anfield and we know what they will tell you. It all feels a bit irreversible sadly…
Probably one of the main reasons I hardly go anymore and just as important as ticket prices. The two are intrinsically linked, the higher the ticket price, the worse the atmosphere. Let’s be honest, this is how the owners want it, the middle aged middle class fan has more money to spend in the club shop and under the stands regardless of where they are from. But let’s not dismiss the elephant in the room, there are fewer locals at the game so it stands to reason that the culture that created the famous Kop is being slowly diluted. It’s still true that you get yer education on The Kop but that traditional is being slowly eroded.
As a wool myself I had to learn to fit in fast during the 70’s otherwise I wouldn’t have made it out of Lime Street.
Good read mate, the milking of fans has to stop, 20 is plenty home or away!!
The reclaim the kop regards 305/306 blocks haven’t really worked, it’s just turned into a look I’m in with the singers, then don’t sing themselves,.
Perhaps a unreserved section pay on the day would work(that’s if the fuckin peelers can be arsed to police it,lazy twats). Would mean getting in early thus adding to atmosphere?
I think safe standing like the German model would be ideal( can’t see it happening tho).
ohh! Just in closing I think you mispaced a comma in this line,
Whether that’s via Thomas Cook, touts etc.
Well in.
Watching on TV, you could hear how poor the atmosphere was compared to the away end. Then, as Jon says, “that fucking song” after the penalty.
The first step would be to try and introduce some type of safe standing area, scientifically. Borussia Dortmund would be a working example to try to emulate.
The real problem is ticket prices and trying to get in – the casual, walk-up-on-the-day matchgoer is long gone – teenagers simply can’t afford £50 a ticket unless their parents are well off.
Besitkas was my third game this season. Southampton cost me £155 with bus, West Ham cost me £195 with bus, Besiktas cost me £64 with bus. I’m a real fan, I was in the Kop on Thursday and sang along with all the songs which I’ve learned from previous visits and YouTube videos. Having sat in the Anfield road end on two hospitality days v West Ham and Southampton, comparing it to Kop, I don’t think I can ever go back to sitting there with that bunch of stiffs who don’t sing. It’s hard for real, hardworking, passionate fans to get tickets. The solution is to have photo ID. Only the season ticket holder can get in on his card. It makes me sick that I have the will and the finances to go to every home and away game but it’s not possible to get reasonably priced tickets. I’ve paid over £150 twice this season to sit in the library road end.
Best article I’ve read in years, although one I don’t want to be!
Spot on – I have, unfortunately, voted with my feet as its not the same anymore. I dont go now, partly having kids partly rising prices but mainly because of the wools they embarrass me and im not sittin by some jester from devon cant be doing it. The club do nothing to support any of your views they’re just chasing the $$$ but I think they are being short sighted, as a kid who would you support? EFC do so much more at attracting kids, that maybe because they have the empty seats to offer that, but I think thats irrelevant – Liverpool is no way a family club anymore its main purpose is making money which is fine and to a certain extent needed – but at what cost? Years of traditions gone up in smoke!
Absolutely spot on mate. Its easily solved though. Pay on the day for the kop. Open the gates five hours before kick off, reduce the price and let people sit where they want. The groups of singers and passionate fans get in then and you could sit with your mates. It worked for thirty years before pre-paid tickets, but i doubt if the club or the council or Merseyside police would let it happen these days. “We’re all doomed.”
Great article. I’ll be honest. I can’t wait for the arse to fall out of football. I would love to go to more games but I ain’t paying 40 odd quid to go/sit on my own and sit in silence for 2 hours, a point you make above. I’m of an age when you could just about roll up on the day and pay on the gate to stand on the kop. I think i got 2 years out of this and it was short change out of my paper round money with pocket money combined. They were the days. As an easily influenced 15 year old it was worth the entry fee to be part of the atmosphere and learn the great songs. There were many games were you’d spend most of your time looking around and taking everything in. It was brilliant. Even with the introduction of seating, the mid to late 90s were great for atmosphere even when we were poor. The European games were a must but i still remember poxy fa cup/league cup games against lower leagues when it was still worth the entry fee for the atmosphere alone and going into school the next day to tell your mates all about it.
The future doesn’t look good to me. I have a 5 year old son who is just starting to know what Liverpool is. Will i be able to get tickets for the 2 of us to go at a reasonable price? I doubt it and that’s the problem. I don’t see where the next generation of Liverpool fans are coming from.
Danny, you’re a genius. I hate the way things are. It seriously depresses me. I think of jacking in football because there’s no passion in grounds any more. Could learn a lesson or two from Dortmund. I call for more safe standing.
Sorry but what a bunch of sanctimonious and condescending crap.
All due respect but you can’t tell fans how to act.
Everyone has this picture of the ‘good old days’ where the kop could literally such the ball into the goal. Where you just went with the crowd and found your place. Where you had rivers of piss and you had to earn your spot on the kop.
Football has long since evolved and so has the average football fan.
Ipads, selfie sticks and ‘soccer am’ chants are there. But so is the respect for our players and the opposition.
You want the days of the Munich chants back? Where we attack and abuse the opposition fans and players?
Want to know the main issue. The kop is formulaic.
YNWA
Old scouser Tommy
All you need is rush
Round the fields of Anfield road
Liverpool
L I V E R P. Double O L liverpool FC
Oh and throw in a few Gerrard chants in there. Even when he’s not on the pitch.
In that order. Every single time because that’s how it’s always been.
The problem is the age of those attending. Look around you, it’s all middle aged men and families on a day trip. The groups of young lads can’t get in because ST holders won’t let them go, and when they do get a game, they’re spread all over the ground. You split up groups of friends and you kill the atmosphere. And let’s not get into those with STs that never go unless it’s a top side, preferring to make an income from the tickets over supporting the side on the day.
This is why away games are better, you’re all forced into one shitty little area of the ground together.
And for all those moaning about the fans’ noise heard on their illegal streams, you planks need to understand there are mics all around the ground and the producer gets to choose how much you hear from where.
Spot on.
How about giving the REGULAR away supporters central KOP stand tickets together with a child seat option next to them? These extra seats could be introduced when the main stand is finnished, if your not a singing season ticket holder in the Kop you should be ashamed of yourself, be EVICTED to the main stand in place of someone who wants to create an atmosphere for the lads.
Why don’t the substitutes warm up at the Kop end at league games, little things help!
The club need to encourage supporters to arrive early, this could be done by lowering the extortionate price of crap lager and all other refreshments
We need our atmosphere more than ever, I’m a local season ticket holder in the centenary and hate the fact that there is a too cool to sing attitude, why don’t we wear our colours too. Need to take a look at ourselves, not blame the ‘out of towners’ who give fantastic support when not made to feel like lepers. Come on boy’s lets get it back
For me it’s not a ‘Scouse v Wool’ debate. I’ve sat in the same seat for 5 or so seasons. Had tickets all over the ground until then when I was lucky enough to be offered a season ticket from a mate who was moving away. He’d had it for 25 years and wasn’t ready to give it up altogether. I’m insurance i suppose. Either way, neither of us have a purple bin.
I sit in the Kop. Surrounded by a mixture of local lads and fans who travel from further a field. One guy comes from South Wales every week. It’s a 150 mile journey or 151 depending on where he parks. The fellas behind me are 3 generation of family. Grandad is in his 80s, blind as a bat unless it’s an offside shout or a pen! We watch the game and we chat and we laugh together. We sing when the Kop sings and a lot of that depends on the teams performance. There’s less singing in our section of the Kop than there is coming from the lads at the back but the fans there are knowledgeable, vocal and commited fans. They are a mixture of the fanbase we have. Not all local.
In my experience the atmosphere hasn’t been the historic talked of atmosphere of days gone by for a long time. But then neither have we been the dominant footballing team we use to be. Last season was the exception on both counts. The atmosphere was amazing and so was the football. It shouldn’t have to be like that and maybe we should talk about safe standing areas or singing areas. Maybe a season ticket seat relocation for those that want to be more vocal. Or advertise the general sale tickets in a specific area as a singing area. All could help. Team performance will help most though.
As for Thursday’s game. I didn’t sing ‘that’ song. I cringed and thought Christ is this how bad we have become. The two seats at the side of me sang and pointed at the away fans. These are general sale seats and both had local lads stood in them. The lads behind didn’t sing a long and I wouldn’t expect them too. Nor did the Welsh lad. around me, some people joined in and some didn’t, I don’t think where they came from played any part in it. The song started in the Anny Rd anyway, I’m blaming them!
That song the people who sung it should be ashamed. We are Liverpool! not some mid table small club. It drives me insane going the game and the atmosphere being like a morgue. You come to support your team not spectate. I’m all for having a safe standing section at a cheaper price but I don’t think we’ll ever get that. Just watch a bundersliga game on tv the atmosphere is unreal no matter the score. I don’t know the solution to the problem with more and more out of towners coming to the games to get a selfie on a corner. Away games are where it’s at these days.
Well in, Gareth. All true.
Here’s my take on it from Block 306 – which was created to put some atmosphere back into the Kop.
Among myriad problems – where it’s located at the back being one – there is far too much political song snobbery. 306 has a load of old ex-Anfield Road Enders who actively discourage singing. Peer pressure at its worst in the area of the ground where it should be employed to generate – not subdue atmosphere.
“Too cool for that singing stuff, me. Don’t want to look like a bellend in front of arl Gerry who fronted the whole Stretford End in 79”
For those that do “sing”, there’s no attempt to be inclusive by keeping it simple. For example, few know the words to Every other Saturday, but it’s belted out each game after about 3 minutes. It’s an atmosphere killer. Even the longer, better-known, great Lpool songs like Scouser Tommy are dying out at the expense of ditties (sang by about 30 try-hards) that belong in the pub not the match.
The sense of timing is appalling – one of the great talents of the Kopites was a sixth sense – riding the waves of the action and applying the right chant at the right time.
Finally, half the lads who try to get stuff going have voices that are as weak as piss.
My solution – fuck the arl cool heads and miserable old bastards off, and get the kids in. Let me retire back to the Kemlyn and let the youth take over.
Haha, “voices as weak as piss”. Never ceases to amaze me how many people can’t sing in tune. When the atmosphere is good I sing really loud because I feel I have a duty to keep those around in tune. It’s appalling. I put some of it down to the songs sung though and probably disagree on ‘Poor Scouser Tommy’. Don’t get me wrong it’s one of my favourites because when I think of being a kid on the Kop I get two or three memories, queuing down the road to get in, the players kicking those black and white balls into the Kop when they run out and Poor Scouser Tommy. It’s a difficult song to sing loud though even for people with my vocal range. Then by the time it’s tailing off into Rush scored one… half the crowd have given up. Take Every Other Saturday, try singing ‘and when we won the European Cup in Rome’ quietly. You can’t do it. It makes you sing with passion. Like everyone, I loved last season’s atmosphere and in another 30 years when I look back I’ll think of Poetry in Motion not Poor Scouser Tommy. For the record, that’s the song that Liverpool fans really can’t hit the notes of, their lack of tune makes me squirm especially ‘we’re the best football team……..
Another song I really liked was the Suarez song. Again, it makes you shout it out. One of my favourites is Fields of Anfield Road especially the second verse when the clapping starts and that’s my point – Poetry in Motion, Fields of Anfield Road and the Suarez song have to be accompanied by clapping. The clapping makes it for me. But, try sitting in your seat and clapping (I’m in 307 but the person to my left is in 306 with the aisle in the middle so we sit). No offence to anyone with special needs but I feel like I have special needs when I’m sitting in my seat singing and clapping. So, I agree with you about the timing of songs / songs sung but would take a difference stance. Some songs are made to be sung more passionately than others. More rhythmic clapping songs please!
One thing I’d like to add as a general point (although I was intrigued to hear your views on it, Mike, put a different side forward that I’d not considered before) but people talk of ‘day trippers’ and the modern football fan but in some ways I don’t agree. In Chester, if ‘day trippers’ want tickets their first point of call is me. All face value of course but if season ticket holders want to sell their tickets they ask me to get rid of them and I don’t mind making the link for them. Point is, if someone is going for the first time I have, in the past, given them my Kop seat and sat elsewhere. I’ve sat in every area of the ground and it’s appalling. I often leave thinking I’d rather have stayed at home. The Kop though is different. I refuse to believe that with the exception of the Europa and domestic cups those people are day trippers. They’re not. Half them are in their 80’s. Sometimes we just don’t feel it though. It’s staged to sing. More a feeling that you should. Other times I’m well up for it and don’t miss a word of any song. So, I think it’s simply a case of what match it is. Last season was incredible. The semi against Chelsea was good this season too. I took my lad to Ludogorets and remember being made up that he’d experienced the Kop (for a few minutes near the end although we were in the standing section and it was really good). If we’re playing Stoke though for the chance to move into 7th place on Sunday tea time then it’s hard to get motivated to sing like you mean it. Yet, the tension felt, aside, the midweek Sunderland game last season was great. So was the Sunday 4pm (I think that was kick off time) against Spurs. I’ll always have the memory of being drunk on the tube with about 10 mates on the way to, but nowhere near, Wembley. We were singing to show off because we were playing at Wembley and we felt proud that we followed Liverpool.
So, there are many reasons why it’s like this as Gareth points out. More young needed, we need to be with mates in the ground, I think a safe standing section with lower prices is needed although after having it pointed out to me I now believe that debate shouldn’t be raised while the inquests are on (and actually heard a relative of one of the victims say as much on the radio this week). Most of all though, we need to be successful and that’s the bottom line for me.
Great post Gareth
Time is an interesting thing about this conversation – more specifically when did this happen? I think people look back with rose tinted glasses by and large.
As a child I left Liverpool for six years between 1979 and 1985. I had gone every game at Anfield for six years before I left and have been to pretty much every game at home since. When I came back I couldn’t believe the changes. The pageantry had pretty much completely gone and for the majority of games singing was reserved for a small section in the middle of the Kop. I remember the exceptions to this day for example the Molby Man Utd game and th derbies etc.
We still didn’t sing other people’s songs though and still had pre-match traditions on top of singing all the players names – whistling “Brucie’s going to Wembley”, “Celtic/Rangers”, plazzy balls being kicked into the crowd, and the one fella always singing RONNIE WHELAN. By the mid 80’s though singing throughout every match had long gone.
I remember discussing this with John Mackin when he used to have to hand out Flag Day leaflets to try to get atmosphere to big games in the 90’s. Your article could have been written back then.
I Think things actually improved under Benitez and Houllier and last season was superb. Unfortunately I think it will only remain like that for those lucky enough to get to the away games and at home when the team is doing really well (hence the drop off between this season and last).
We need to keep trying though. The Anfield Road team bus welcomes were a stroke of genius and I like that they are unique to this current crop of supporters.
The thing is, you would never see this at a league game, Champions League, or FA Cup game. Tickets for Europa League games are much easier to come by, and so a lot of the attendees are basically newcomers to Anfield and do not know how to conduct themselves at the match. They only know generic football chants that you are more likely to find at an England game. Near me, there were some teenage lads that kept getting up at the worst times to go to the toilet or to get a hotdog, before going home after 77 minutes.. This type of thing only happens at Europe League games or in the early stages of the League Cup. That chant made me cringe, and I thought that the Besiktas fans were great! I am disappointed that they went home with that impression of Anfield. But on another day, Anfield is still a special place with special fans
Safe standing sections , as in Germany, is the only way groups will be able to go to the game together.
Unfortunately that may not be the case. It’ll be a set standing positions rather than a set seat. All that’ll happen is more people allowed into the same area. If “safe standing” is to help with the shitty atmosphere, it has to be unassigned so you and your mates can all go in together. As far as I’m aware, that isn’t what the pro camp are talking about.
I’m not a regular match goer, I get to as many games I can afford and tend to stick to cup games, since I don’t mind watching Liverpool face a lower light like say Bolton, and it comes with the bonus of a potential big game with Everton, Man United or a semi-final, final appearance. I’ve never had the fortune of going to an away game, at least in our end, where we really do seem to get loud and outstanding support. I’ve been going since 2007. 2007 I went to European games, then a friendly here and there and every FA Cup game since 2008.
I can say then in my experience there were special atmospheres reserved for the biggest clashes against Chelsea and Barcelona in 2007. There were loud ones against Man United (2012) and Everton (2009). Although the United game also had the moments of silence filled with people moaning about tactics and snipes at players they didn’t like. The smaller European games against Galatasaray, Bordeaux and PSV were also loud in parts but even then we were doing chants I was told were unLiverpoollike, the Who R Ya and the like. There was an exciting atmosphere in a friendly against Lazio in 2008, when we protested the potential sale of Xabi Alonso and decision to sign Gareth Barry
I’ve been to some quiet atmospheres. Whenever we play a smaller team, the atmosphere can die….and people wonder why we struggle against smaller teams! Even then there was an occassional break out into song when the Steven Gerrard song broke out or the regular songs like Fields of Anfield Road were belted out. Small teams I’m talking about are Havant and Waterlooville, Luton, Barnsley, Reading and that random team we played Rabotnicki
This season I went to a match against Bolton and I can’t remember Anfield being more dead. Well except for the Bolton fans who were brilliantly loud, even if the content of their songs were Soccer AM. We could barely muster up a fields of Anfield road. Only seemed slightly roused when Bolton sang “wheres your famous atmosphere” and we were definitely more interested in groaning at misplaced passes. What was bizarre about it was this really should have been a match that had a decent atmosphere. Before the match, the place was buzzing about the Chelsea, City and Spurs results. Heskey and Spearing were back and it was freezing cold! If thats not an excuse to start singing there will never be one. It just never got going,. After you’ll never walk alone, everything fizzled out before it got started.
The most charming and brilliant thing about this experience was the enthusiasm of a young fan sat next to me, who kicked me a few times because someone has misplaced a pass. He was kicking every ball with the players. The enthusiasm for the game I concluded was still there, but it was being choked out, I think by this soulless modern game.
I got into football because of the tribalism and the enjoyment of the game. I chose to support Liverpool, I admit not as a consequence of where I grew up but because their players and support was what inspired me to love football. I came to that game not to ‘experience’ the atmosphere but to be part of it. Now standing near or in the kop and being given the evil eye for trying to start a song seems the way of things, I find myself falling out of love. Which is a shame because last season the Liverpool I knew and love seemed to return for three months last year. Maybe we only sing when we’re winning?
There are many reasons why? A ticket costs at least 25 quid. Alot of money to spend for the average person. When I say 25 quid thats the price for games against your Boltons or Blackburns. Not the bigger games or league games that is an altogether different tier. Normal people are being priced out and the club is catering more to your corporate deals and Thomas cook matches. On Thursday there were tickets for Manchester United and Burnley if you were willing to pay a premium price for a Thomas Cook Package. Someone above commented on the extra seats being built but guess who most of them are for (not us)
As has been mentioned getting into a situation where you can go with friends is almost impossible unless you want to pay for membership. Getting to games in general is a pain if your not a member. Most tickets for League games were sold months ago to members and season ticket holders. If your living week to week and want a ticket, you have to hope some of those guys drop out. Then without friends, do you really want to brave the devil stares when you start up a song? Not really!
On adverts around the ground you see posters saying something along the lines of feel the experience! In that case Liverpool should be doing more to accommodate local fans, and I say that as a guy who is a wool. As much as wools can replicate the passion and wit of scousers, LiverpoolFC is their club. They feel the passion for Liverpool because its their club representing their city. Liverpools support was funny, witty and sharp? Thats because scousers as a people tend to be funny, witty and sharp! Force Scousers away from the club and the atmosphere will die. I as a wool bought into Liverpool because of them and by and large its those guys who are being turned away by the football club. In favour of your daytripper.
Half and Half scarves and the like are not a cause of the death of the support but a symptom. A daytripper will get a half and half scarf as a momento (although personally a ticket and a programme should have been enough). If you see half and half scarves it is likely the person is coming for one match only, if you see plenty then that tells you something about the crowd. If everyone is coming to live the experience and hear the Kop, then who is going to sing the songs, who is going to make the atmosphere? That for me is modern footballs problem. The owners and moneymen will not care until the money dries up.
Ticket availability is a massive problem. I’ve been on the season ticket waiting list for a good few years now so in the meantime I’ve a fan card and some other contacts to get tickets.
Fan cards a bit of a joke. When the tickets do go on sale the vast majority of tickets are sold out within 1 or 2 mins at the most so if you’ve targetted a certain game or 2 the chances of getting tickets together with your mates are slim.
I’ve sat everywhere in the ground at this stage and by far the best time I had was in the middle of the Kop where we spent our whole time singing sometimes to the detriment of actually watching some of the game (was the 3-2 v Spurs coupla yrs ago).
If a safe standing area cannot be realised then probably the best way forward is to have an area where mates can all pay into together on the day. Logistically I’m not sure how this would work as the queues for this section would be mad on match day I’d imagine. Having an area where 3/400 could get into and have sing together with your mates on the day could be amazing and if it was in an opposite end from the
Kop then that might help the atmosphere grow around the ground.
This isn’t new At the height of Liverpools pomp in the 80.s the Kop was like the moon for all but the biggest fixtures -ronically peoplw were gorged on winning and were unlikely to go apeshit about knocking over the likes of Derby County. It punches a hole straight thru the argument of a return to standing areas will be a return to beatle cuts and everyone singing she loves you yeah yeah yeah .
Sat in the lower centenary the other night which was a change because my season ticket is in the upper centenary. I know a lot of the chanting of ‘that’ song came from the Anny Rd, but some near me joined in. Honestly, for a moment I just turned the other way and fucking laughed. Embarrassment.
It’s time we got back to some old traditions and make the game more accessible to local fans who have been priced out or the younger kids who should be able to go to games in the following decades.
when the average age of a season ticket holder – so by definition the average age of the crowd – is around 45 I don’t think you can expect much more
We all mellow and more reserved as we get older
I’ve had my season ticket for over 25 years – last 10 years in the upper centenary – and I would argue every game at he too cool for school middle aged fans who wouldn’t – yes WOULDNT- sing YNWA
I let my mate take his son more often than not these days as he let me take mine when his were too young and I am sad to say I don’t really miss it
The fun has gone the songs have gone people tell you to sit down at the odd exciting moment of the game
Oh yeah. And on Europena nights I get launched from my seat near the half way line – which I pay through the nose for cos its on the half way line !! – to a seat in the corner by the Anfield Rd to allow so called VIP guests of the opposing side to sit in my seat – some of the worst behaved Vip’s I have ever come across usually as well!
The problems are numerous but I believe that until the interest in LFC wanes, the owners don’t sell out every week and and the local juniors are allowed to pay on the gate as we did in the early 80’s , then nothing’s going to change
I started going in 1976.
In the middle of the Kop we never really watched the matches much, we spent the entire game swaying left and right and moving up and down the terraces, physically crushed against the barriers, ducking under and then being crushed against the next.
It was loud and hot and sweaty and fantastic. I remember a game where the Kop literally divided into 2 sides, each side pelting the other with empty plastic coke bottles ( no one drank bottled water in those days – still looks odd to me now tbh)
Some songs…
“He shot, he cum, all over Mary’s bum, Tommy Doc, Tommy, Doc”. v Derby County
” oh I do like to be beside the seaside, oh I do like to be beside the sea, oh I do like to walk along the prom, prom, prom, where the brass band play, Fuck off Southend”. – v Southend, some fa cup match
“Oh Larry Larry,
Larry, Larry, Larry, Larry SHIT house Lloyd “. v Notts Forest after Lloyds repeat hard tackles on King Kenny.
The whole Kop sang that for 10 full minutes, the effect whithered the player.
The Kop would sing Beatles songs, “She loves you yeh, yeh, yeh”, and Yellow Submarine.
I went on Thursday, a 2 hour Journey took over 4 hours on the M6, another 3.5 to get home. (What the fuck are they doing to that road, it’s got to be the busiest in the world)
I sat in the Lower Centientery stand row 8 on the 18 yard line Kop end.
I’m a reasonable 6′ tall, there was no physical way to sit straight, knees forward, had the sit with legs wide open, some strange bloke practically between my legs, strangers all around who didn’t sing, constantly getting up and down to view the corner kicks and throw-ins to my right, there seemed to 1000’s of these oddly.
I had a ‘meat’ and potatoe pie at half time after nudging through to the food outlet, trying to block people coming in sideways, “sorry no alcohol served at this game”, oh btw WHY was that??? the Turks drink as much Efes as we drink Guinness so it can’t have been that?
I could hear the Kop singing a fair bit actually, but it was like volume 4/11. Away fans looked unbelievable!
God help us next week
The whole experience was poor, I sat thinking whether the multimillionaires I was watching cared 2 shits that my back ached, my knees scored by the plastic seat in front, splashes of someone else’s piss on my trousers after the visiting the ‘Gents’, an afternoon off work and 7.5 hours in the car. Not to mention the £££.
We’re a 21st century top tier mega rich (new TV deal coming to the most televised team in the league) and our stadium is dreadful, it’s going to get bigger too, but not better, or cheaper, just more people trying to park, buy a pint, travel home.
Sorry to go on, bottom line is the atmosphere will drain away as long as the home fans are made to sit down, and the experience is this crap, this rule does not apply to the away fans strangely and the effects are apparent.
Remove the seats from the Kop, the singers will find each other, create small penned off areas which stop crushes toppling down. Hillsborough wasn’t caused by people standing up. It’s also a way to increase capacity by 2,000 safely
Big question – is season ticketing on the Kop fair? Sure loyal fans regular goers get the seats every game and it’s good for the club, but it means new fans, the next generation have less opportunity to go
Haha, sounded good mate. One thing that struck a chord with me was having a fat bloke between your legs (think I’d better explain). The last time I was in the Centenary I had a lovely young woman in front of me. It was far worse than having a bloke in front. I get involuntarily leg movements at the game where if someone just needs to shoot to score I do the action of shooting for him. So, I had my knees either side of this girls shoulders (I think from your comment you’ll know exactly what I mean). Every 2 minutes the same scenario played out. I jerked (trying to look for a better word but I think that’s the most accurate), smashed my knees into her upper ribcage, she turned round in shock, saw me looking mortified and embarrassed and smiled and turned back round. I’ve never been so pleased to hear the final whistle. Terrible experience.
Hilarious Tommy Doc….oops, sorry Robin :-)
Decent stuff, as always. The fact that every song has to be a mindless rehash to the tune of Sloop John B gets right on my tits. No humour, no wit.
I have been rabbiting about this to anyone who’ll listen for the past few years. Worse this season though. I have also talked at length about it in every fan survey. Why do we sit the kids above the away fans? What are they learning. They hear more bad language, torment and general vitriol from away fans than they ever will in the kop. If I grew up in this shitty atmosphere I’d have never kept going. Half our season tickets are touted out because the lads can’t afford 50 -60 quid to watch West brom or ludagrets. Everyone knows one t*t with 6 season tickets. Half the regulars i know are on someone else’s season ticket or are members getting moved around the ground like musical chairs, sitting with the tourists. If ypu sing in these areas (I know because I always do) you get looked at like youre a freak or an alcoholic if you have the cheek to have a pint before the game. Not only do they not want to sing. They don’t want me to sing either! By the time you get through the season ticket waiting list you are in your 40 ‘s so how are the young lads meant to go? The two best atmospheres this season have been chelsea semi and Besiktas on Thursday night. Both around 30 quid a ticket. There is a lesson here. No one gives a fuck where you are from btw. If you sing like a red, You are a red. I am made up you wrote this Gareth. Excellent article which every red should read.
Sorry, but you can’t turn the clock back. I remember in 1964 as a 20 year old on the Kop alongside 20 odd thousand other souls. I’d been there for over 2 hours. The gates were locked as the ground was full with if I remember correctly an attendance of around 54000. I’d paid my 2/6 and I was determined to be there to watch us play Arsenal to clinch the title under Shanks. Was I bored for that 2 hours? No way. We sung and chanted for the 2 hours. Sometime it was things people had thought up themselves. Other times it was to sing along to the records in the top 20 that was being played over the public address system. That wasn’t hard either, as most of the artists where from Liverpool anyway.
Those were the days when football was still a workingmans game. Long since gone. Can you imagine the spectators being in their places 2 hours before a kick off these days? We all understand the reasoning behind all seater stadiums. However, not everyone can afford the price of a season ticket and the ordinary supporter has been priced out of the ground.
Price the ordinary supporter out of the ground and you loose the soul of the club.
I am fortunate and old enough to have attended many matches in the 60’s and 70’s, but I’m sad to say, you will never recreate the ground atmospheres we had then.
Sorry, but I think you’re wrong. I experienced it last season. The atmosphere is there, the debate is more about how frequent it’s there. 85 was the year I first started going on the Kop with mates rather than my dad and yeah, I became intoxicated by the feeling but then we were the best in Europe then. It’s easy to enjoy it. I’ve said it above but I’m convinced only success can bring the atmosphere back. What do you think of when you remember the Chelsea CL semi? It can be recreated.
Good article.
A handsome man wrote an interesting article on here, not so long ago, about similar issue.
As a so called WOOL of 57 years (born to scouse parents) I don’t buy this argument that out of towners detract from the atmosphere.
My first time on the Kop was Sir Roger Hunt’s testimonial when there were 56000 in the ground and an estimated 20000 were locked out.
I then went on to serve my apprenticeship on the Kop, leaning all the songs and contributing to the atmosphere. They were great days and although the vast majority were locals there was a significant number of WOOLS in the ground contributing to the atmosphere.
Sadly things are no longer the same and many of the old songs are not known to the younger generation of supporters. About 5 years ago I was in the Park Inn before a night match against Waet Ham. Whilst Badgio and his entourage went thru their repertoire I tried to get a song going. Older Kopites would know it. The first line of “I’m forever blowing bubbles” had those around me thinking I was a West Ham fan but luckily a few older supporters joined in……. “And if you come to Anfield we’ll be running after you”.
I think the solution is a combination of cheaper tickets and safe standing. The latter I can not see happening as one, the police would be against it and two, the HSG have previously voiced their opinion against a return to standing.
I’m an American but I’m fortunate enough to be able to make it over to Anfield once or twice a year for a match. Last season however I did my first away match at Fulham and I had an amazing experience being among the traveling support and couldn’t believe how great of an atmosphere it was, the constant signing, the pre match drinks in the pub, etc. That atmosphere is the type of thing we need at Anfield and I think allowing general admission seating and possibly even safe standing in the Kop would help a lot.
The famous Anfield atmosphere died years ago and is only resurrected on’ one off ‘big nights.
The very nature of modern football – especially the greed driven EPL – makes it extremely hard to recreate those raucous, partisan atmospheres. The German Bundesliga is by far the best model to ensure a return to allowing real fans to attend games. Sadly, the entrenched corporate interests who run the EPL will never sanction fans having a say in how clubs are run.
I first stood on the Kop as an 11 year old against Huddersfield Town in 1970- a local lad called John MacLaughlin scored twice on his debut in a 4-0 win then vanished without trace! I spent most of the game looking back in awe at the massed terrace behind me. Even then, the Kop was changing in character. The dockers and tradesmen who can be seen singing and swaying to the Beatles ‘She Loves You’ in that famous BBC documentary were giving way to a younger, more aggressive crowd. I attended every home game on the Kop in 70-71 and watched in fascination as the arl fellas got pushed to the sides as boot boys in boiler suits and Doc Martens – often brandishing truncheons – headed to the hard core middle. Songs became more aggressive – ‘Doing the Liverpool boot walk’ , Liverpool Clockwork’ etc. and, to my impressionable ears, the spine tingling ‘Rangers/Celtic’ chant. Aggro was the prominent theme – sung to a backdrop of surging punch ups in the pre-segregated Annie Road end.
In fact, it seemed most of the Kop was more interested in encouraging the violence across the field than the team on it!
There is a great souvenir of this era in the form of an LP/CD put out called ‘The Kop Choir’. Look closely at the cover and I’ll wager that at least 23,000 of the 25,000 stood on that Kop were born within a 10 mile radius of the ground. Myself included. This was the start of an era of LFC domination that saw the Kop reach its pinnacle in banners/colours/songs. When Shankly was called to do a lap of honour at the end of the title winning 74 game, the Kop was the most amazing site in modern football. It seems like every fan had a scarf or a flag, creating a wall of sound and colour! The Kop was now the template for every fan base in the country and, as LFC success was now televised, worldwide. Imitation ‘Kops’ sprung up everywhere. The famous forward surges at corners/goals are still duplicated by fanatics in Latin America – especially Boca Juniors.
[Digression – if you are nostalgic for the passion of the 70’s tinged with the real menace of violence thrown in, Argentina is the place for you!].
This phenomenal success meant an inevitable influx of new fans from around the country and worldwide.
I have absolutely nothing against this. Nonetheless, the atmosphere/songs became more generic.
As has also been pointed out, our fans became complacent after 20 years of domination and could only raise the noise level for the visits of United and Everton.
To me, the main problem facing the club today is allowing a younger generation of local fans to be able to afford to attend games. Despite our global status, LFC will always be known for its scouse heritage and we cannot allow this to wither away in pursuit of corporate greed.
The German model is fantastic for fans. Safe standing areas, cheap tickets, fans own half the club so immediately they feel more connected and the players seem to connect with the fans far more too.
Footnote : Even Pink Floyd were so enamored of The Kop sound, they included a great version of the Kop singing YNWA at the end of their song ‘Fearless’ off the classic Meddle album :)
Fantastic song! One of my favourites. Remember the banner last season – we climbed the hill in our way way.
I’d love to know why Waters chose to add the Kop. I think it’s because the song appears to be about the crucifixion of Jesus and the link to the Kop is the worshipping crowd, although there are many different theories.
Price Goes Up, Fun Goes Down
couldnt agree more, ill keep it short, visited occasionally in recent years and had the dirty looks for shouting and cheering our team on, shocked each time it happened. i used to stand on the kop most matches in the late 70s early 80s and also home and away, had ringing ears from the noise at each match plus a dry sore throat from screaming shouting and singing. trouble is like you say how do you get that back?????
Let’s be honest though, the Besiktas were singing the Gerrard slipped on the ball song in Turkish, then we scored and they shut up……………..the Liverpool fans had every right to sing “You’re not singing any more”………… and then finish the night off with a rousing edition of ” You’ll never walk alone”
You are an Evertonian :)
‘They did it first..’
Deffo a bluenose wind up.
They have taken the club from the working class. The real fans with the love and passion for L.F.C are priced out .instead you have a ground fell of middle class, how go for just the tag “I go to anfield “
Brilliant piece this. Spot on. Just one theory to add…
The world is changing and people in general have other interests aside from watching Liverpool and obsessing over lyrics to songs in readiness for matchday.
The dilution of obsession and knowledge of our great club seems rife as a result.
Half and half scarves. I bought one as a souvenir. Yet I sat in the Kop and sung my heart out. The songs I knew anyway. Problem is, I can’t get tickets! So I need souvenirs!!!! I have the means and the will to go to every home and away game. I live in Cardiff as well. Perhaps if season ticket holders actually went to the games instead of hoarding their season tickets you would get proper fans in the crowd who want to CREATE an atmosphere, people like me. It’s a complete stitch up. The solution is simple, unless your face is on the season ticket, you don’t get in. Plane and simple. Perhaps use finger print or pupil recognition.
Are you reading my mind – almost word for word?
Forget it, the days of Anfield being a cauldron are gone for good.
Firstly, ticket prices won’t be coming down – they will continue to rise as long as there are enough people willing to pay the prices. There is no reason for football to be different than any other business. The market dictates what happens, end of story.
That means that young fans are not going to be getting in. Not only that, the older fans that can keep paying the rising prices are going to be affluent. If they weren’t born middle-class, then they are likely to be the beneficiaries of social-mobility. If you are a married man with two or more kids, you are probably going to be earning 40k+ a year, whether you take along your offspring or not.
Guys like this don’t tend to be nutters. A football ground bounces when it’s full of nutters. Guys with little else to look forward to than the next game. Guys living on their wits who have managed to somehow get the money together to get in, often at the expense of someone a bit softer than themselves. Guys who used to be referred to as Scallies.
There will be plenty of fellas who still see themselves amongst that number, but the truth is that they are deluded. Their lives bear little resemblance to what people were putting up with in the 80s. The fans who put up with that shit don’t really live in England anymore, at least not those who can afford to go and watch the match every week. You can still find fans like this though, in places like Istanbul, Buenos Aires and cities in Eastern Europe.
The days of a red-hot atmosphere at Anfield are not going to come back. I was lucky enough to stand in the Kop in the 80s. It was a very different place back then but not as mad as some would have you believe. Sometimes it would really get going, but there were many games where the fans didn’t do much except moan and go half-heartedly through the repertoire of songs (most of which just involved repeating a player’s name).
Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, United, City, Barcelona, Real Madrid… it’s pretty much the same story. Great entertainment and value, especially if you stay at home and watch on the free internet streams, as most of us do. I live overseas now, but even if I didn’t I wouldn’t be fussed if I never set foot inside Anfield again. One of the few positives about getting old is at least I can remember exciting days and nights there when football was sold on the cheap.
Even if we did let a load of local kids in, they would just spend the match messing around with their phones. Vote with your feet. It won’t make a blind bit of difference, but at least you can feel self-righteous about the whole thing as the wind blows the piss back over your chops.
It’s not entirely true mate. I sometimes go up to the match with the young lads from near me. They’re mid 20’s, they earn good money from the building trade and a couple of them are as rum as they come. Their passion for LFC is unrivalled. Not saying that changes anything but there’s plenty of others going too. £50 is a lot of money for a ticket. I buy nothing for myself because after spending on bills, food and the kids there’s nothing left. I recently bought a pair of shoes for my sister’s wedding. They replaced the ones I bought in 2003 for my graduation. But, I find the money to go to the match, haha, and so do thousands of others in the same situation. So, 1) the atmosphere was there in a number of games last season and matched the 80’s on the Kop because I was involved in both and 2) people will still find a way to buy a ticket. It’s not all doom and gloom but the club should look at ways to enhance things.
There will still be loud and passionate fans, fifty years from now. However, it seems pretty clear that their number will decrease, season by season, as we have witnessed over the last quarter of a century or so.
What will you do when tickets are a couple of hundred quid each? My own threshold would be about fifteen quid. Perhaps thirty, if we were playing Manchester United. Anymore than that and I would leave the ground feeling I had got poor value for money nine times out of ten.
Football is just something I watch on the internet now. To be fair, I can’t even claim that level of commitment. My mind quickly begins to wander and I find myself reading something or playing a bit of poker, only looking back at the video player when the crowd sounds excited about something. I often fall asleep at some point in the second-half.
I think the internet just spoils us all a bit. We have immediate access to just about everything, which results in nothing feeling especially exciting. Fair play to those of you who can still find the money and passion to go to the match and really get into it all though. It can’t be easy when 90% of home fans are just sitting there and waiting to be entertained.
‘The Premiership’ – Fucking the game you love over for thirty pieces since 1992.
Regular as clockwork lately when a live match is shown on terrestrial it’s the game of ‘Spot The Crowd’.
Just take a moment to imagine what it’s like to be a Newcastle fan. A club owned by a bloke so rich he couldn’t give a flying one what you thought of him or his team. And they are his team, juggle with semantics all you like – he owns them. And then watch as he promotes his shitty sports shops, changes the name of your, sorry HIS, ground and tries to buy Rangers using his business mates that have screwed the team you support over. Lovely. That’s you firmly in your place. Just keep attending and buying the team merch on a regular basis and pretend they’re your team. Make him richer, that’s the ticket.
Need less to say I empathise with The Lady In The Van to a saddening degree.
Good win today though ‘specially since the consensus appears to be that we were the second best team apparently.
? !
I think I’ll have another vodka and 7Up now before the medication kicks in…..
Thank you for the article. I am a new LFC fan in the U.S., one of many thanks to the recent World Cup cycle. When the grand tournament was over, I did what many people all over the world did, and went looking for a way to get my fix. I reached out to some friends over Twitter and settled on Liverpool. I loved Sterling in the World Cup, so it was an easy sell. There was no way I was going to follow one of the behemoths in Manchester in London, so I made up my mind. I am all in. I wake my groggy ass up before the sun — at 5:30 a.m. I switch my days off at work to watch matches during midweek. I risk my livelihood watching matches on my computer at work. I got a shirt. I felt like I was part of something.
In November, my wife and I threw caution to the wind and took a spontaneous trip to Dublin to watch the US vs. RoI friendly. We were so close, there was no way we weren’t going to make it to a Liverpool match. Thanks to the international break, the only one that worked was away at Crystal Palace. What we found out was getting an away ticket was going to be impossible. We pulled strings and were able to get tickets. Our angel? A corporate sponsor (the same that sponsors this site, actually). We spent hard earned money (or took on debt) to take flights, stay in a hotel, and get transportation across London. When we arrived at the park we were absolutely floored, and completely intimidated. Selhurst is not for the faint of heart. We sat with the LFC supporters and it was one of the most amazing experiences of our lives. The beauty of the green pitch. The bright yellow away kits.
The people around us were cordial, but we felt like fucking aliens. When a fan behind me asked a question about a player being subbed on, and his friend didn’t know, I piped up. When he heard my accent, the look was of utter confusion.
We didn’t know the chants (most don’t come through well on the television, and that’s to say nothing of the language barrier), but we caught on, and we tried. We sang quietly and clapped along, but we didn’t dare do more. English football is very intimidating. The way forward is not to lament the changing of the crowd, but embrace it. If there’s a person standing next to you not singing, encourage them to. If they don’t know the words talk them out so they can understand. It’s the opportunity to expand what it means to be a fan of LFC. It’s the chance to forge bonds with people all over the world. Why not be an ambassador for the team that you’ve loved for 20 plus years?
Oh, and you bet your ass we took a selfie.
Sorry Dustin, but that just sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Not all change is good and something that should be embraced.
You sound a decent guy and it would be unreasonable to expect you to be able to understand British football culture. I hope you had a good time at the game and can understand why you would see no problem in taking a selfie.
You probably did many other things that a lot of regular fans would be mortified doing. You wouldn’t have presented any threat though and would have been completely safe. You won’t have been the first overseas couple that they have seen at a match, wanting to fit in but not being sure of what to do. You aren’t expected to do anything, the whole thing is more about attitude.
I guess you could make a comparison with the kids at school who always sat at the back of the class and laughed at anyone who appeared to be trying too hard. Of course, they were all arseholes, but part of you wanted to be like them. They knew that you felt that way, which only served to heighten their contempt.
Old school football fans can be defined by their desire to be seen as aloof from the main body of the crowd, but also by their innate conservatism and adherence to a certain code and uniform (the uniform won’t involve club colours and especially not souvenirs).
Plenty won’t be there to have a good time either. Think of them as the long-term sick who have turned up to take the medicine that they know will only make them feel worse and won’t help them to get better. Their path was chosen many years ago and there is no getting off it now. Spiralling ticket prices may be their only hope of salvation.
It’s probably for the best that you and the missus didn’t go to Luton v Millwall in 1985 as your first game though!
Ha! Your points are noted. I’ll remember them for when we make it over to the more docile surroundings of Anfield. To be fair, I never felt unsafe or threatened, just… out of place.
I think I did commit one other huge faux pas: I left the stands a few minutes before halftime. I needed a beer.
You deserved the beer. The cost of your whole trip probably surpassed the combined admittance fees of every single game, home and away, of our glory years in the 70s and 80s.
I thought that was a fascinating comment. Probably one of the most interesting comments I’ve read on here. I was gripped at the stage where we didn’t know if you were gonna get a ticket or not. I was made up you got one. Loved reading about your experience at Selhurst Park, haha. I did laugh to myself because I pictured you at a base game drinking a beer, sitting in the sun surrounded by families all dressed in colourful clothes compared to the pressure cooker of an English ground on a cold November day, legions of men dressed in black. Not a smile between them. Miserable bastards the English mate, I lived in other parts of Europe and they might stab you in the arse at a match but at least they’ll smile as they do it.
It’s funny because you’re the other side of the coin. The dreaded ‘daytripper’ but it’s hard not to be pleased you made the trip though. Personally, I’d rather your enthusiasm around me than the bloke behind who shouts ‘oh fuck off you, you’re shite’ every time Sterling puts a foot wrong, and I mean every time.
One final thing, I’ve been going to football or my life and when I next go to Anfield I’ll walk in and be amazed with the colours. Like you say, the green of the pitch and the colours of the kits. I’ll never lose the awe. It also feels manufactured it’s so pure. Because of the red stand at Anfield it’s even more intense. When you get there though you should choose your match carefully, the kick off time, the day, the opposition and the prize at stake can all conspire to make it a pretty miserable experience, haha. Whereas other times can be life changing. The songs are all on You Tube if you do wanna learn them, mate.
I appreciate what I think are mostly compliments (the English version of sarcasm still throws me for a loop, occasionally). The way you pictured it is hilarious to me. It was miserably cold, and I’m from Utah, where I left 30 degree (F) weather.
There were definitely some parts of the Selhurst experience that didn’t make sense. I was confounded at the bald eagle flying around. I had to double check with my wife: “Bald eagles aren’t native to England… are they? Why do they have that?” And the cheerleaders? (I am a huge basketball fan, and the cheerleaders are one of the worst things about games… no one cares about them.) To see them at an English football match was bizarre.
At least the atmosphere at Anfield isn’t THAT manufactured.
Oh, and they have a drummer in the supporters section at Selhurst. That’s common to MLS because of the influence from the Latin American fans.
Haha, no sarcasm there, (ok, In Rome they don’t smile when they stab you).
I’m more intrigued by people than football matches so I found it fascinating to hear how an American a) found LFC and b) what he thought of the experience of an English game. I’ll be honest, it intrigues me that people from other countries support Liverpool and as a result I was interested to read your comment.
Cheerleaders? I think that’s the exception rather than the norm and I’m sure you’re aware the Eagles are Palaces nickname due to their badge. Crystal Palace was a famous glass building built in Victorian times to house the Great Exhibition but it burned down in the 1930’s so when the club looked to re-brand its badge it choose a Phoenix (they’re not from Britain either, haha) to signify rising from the ashes. For some reason this became an Eagle although we do have Golden Eagles here, mainly in Scotland.
What you witnessed is part of an attempt to make football less male working class and more family friendly although I’ve no idea who the cheerleaders are supposed to appeal to. We’re facing similar problems at Anfield with that bastard cormorant you see before kick off. It’s important to some people that this kind of thing is nipped in the bud before we have cheerleaders in the ground and Liver birds flying round the pitch. It’s completely unnecessary and like you say, doesn’t make sense’.
To be honest, you can say don’t blame the wools as much as you want – but the fact the atmosphere is dreadful is because they’re here, and a passionate, local crowd has been replaced by a completely disparite group of people with nothing in common and no shared identity beyond wanting the team in red to win.
The crowd’s been made generic. Years ago when out of town lads came, they’d be a small part of a scosue crowd and they’d buy into it, get what it was about, and become part of the furniture. I’ve got mates from all over who come the match with us, they’re as scouse in their attitude and outlook as I am.
But you can’t have a passionate, us v them, scousers v the world atmosphere when a large proportion of the ground has more in common with the fans in the away end than they do you or I. And that’s basically how large sections of Anfield is these days.
The pre-match entertainment rot started with that giant tin of paint on the centre spot in the 80s. Turned our heads.
With the wools thing – there were always row after row of coaches parked up by the Cabbage pub in the 80s. There will be more non-scousers now than the 80s but it was far from 100% scouse even then.
One difference is the age of the crowd – years ago it seemed to be kids, lads in their 20s or blokes aged about 90 in caps smoking a rolly going on about Billy Liddell and Elisha Scott. Now everyone seems to be aged 35-60 with just a few little kids sprinkled about on a special treat visit.
But anyone singing ‘who are yer’ should be kicked out and served with a lifetime ban for massive bellendery.
I cringed at the Annie Road “song” to Besitkas not least because I was at their ground when we lost 2-1 (we only recall the return 8-0!!).
Of all the grounds I’ve been to with LFC they were the loudest and most passionate ever – and as I’m old enough to have been in 22 countries with LFC that’s some claim.
However if we ever plumb the depths of the Saints mob booing a Loyal lad who had been there 15 years, club captain for 2, then I’d really believe we were just like the majority…
We really do need to continue to help educate the ones who are new to our traditions, even if it often feels like an uphill grind …
how did Palace come to have such vociferous home support? i genuinely don’t know, but at some point one of the elite PL clubs is going to solve the atmos problem, and get a big bounce in terms of performance on- and off-pitch. last season, we were the most televised team, because we played mental football. but imagine if we also had a wall of sound home support akin to the likes of borussia dortmund. THAT would be massive. and surely the ideal time to make the necessary changes is around a ground redevelopment?
oh, another thing. instead of old duffers like us (i’m a middle-aged dad) second-guessing or speaking for the young guns, could TAW facilitate some kind of youth fan podcast special – perhaps during the next international break – comprised of actual teenagers, or thereabouts, telling you what they really think about the (ahem) ‘match day experience’?
I remember something from the mid 90s when a small group at the back of the kop tried to start a “who the f*** are Man Utd” chant during a European tie against Spartak Vladikavkaz. They were swiftly silenced by boos and shouts from most others around them so it never took hold. I am sure that this was an effective form of education and those involved realised that this sort of thing isn’t acceptable at Anfield. Unfortunately it now seems that the critical mass has shifted for some games and there are too few educators and too many who require the educating.
On the out of towner debate, I am someone who was born in Liverpool City Centre, grew up in Crosby until my mid 20s, and spent 6 of the last 9 years working overseas. My permanent UK address is now in the east midlands and I am currently living in India. So what does that make me?
Really enjoying how many people don’t get it in the comment section. My particular favourites are the comments agreeing it’s nothing to do with a location of origin issues, and yet in the next sentence make it a class issue. Please allow me to sum up the article – passionate people from any background must be helped to return and flourish whilst people who don’t care, whether they ever did or not, need to be reduced and diluted. Don’t care if you’re from Liverpool, LA or Lahor. Dont care if your Mercedes is a Mercedes White Van or an S63. You just have to feel wanted as long as you’re singing and out of place if you’re sitting