BY now I’m sure you’ve read Neil Atkinson’s terrific piece on midfield maestro and genuine Welshman Joe Allen. In it, Neil mentions that Allen divides opinion, and in the interest of backing that up, here’s the other side.
If you are a dedicated follower of Allen (bet you’ve got The Kinks stuck in your head now), then please don’t take this as a dislike of little Joe. There has been suggestion that there’s somewhat of an agenda against him from some sections of fans, but I’m not sure ‘agenda’ is the right word. For one, there is no-one in football less offensive than Joe Allen.
I appreciate that I probably couldn’t have picked a worse time to air my concerns about the former Swansea player. He’s coming off some good to arguably great performances against Crystal Palace, Besiktas and Southampton. However, my gripes with Joe are not based solely on recent times. I don’t think the real Joe Allen has appeared at Liverpool since the first few months of his Anfield career.
I remember the Joe Allen of Swansea’s first Premier League season. I remember him being linked with us about halfway through that season, well before Brendan Rodgers had swapped Wales for Merseyside. I remember being at White Hart Lane (I forget why though) when Tottenham beat Swansea 3-1 and being very impressed with who Allen was and what he did.
He was part of a surprisingly effective (albeit small) midfield at the Liberty Stadium under Rodgers, along with Leon Britton and Mark Gower, then later Gylfi Sigurdsson, who looked massive by comparison.
It made absolute sense for Rodgers to bring him to Liverpool. The Northern Irishman needed to implement his style fairly quickly, and the best way to do that was to work with what he could trust, to bring someone in who knew exactly what was required straight away and could influence others from the middle of the pitch.
In his first couple of months at Anfield, Joe Allen was brilliant. He was exactly what we hoped he would be. His passing was crisp, regular and always made sense. He would move the play between defence and attack in a way that a Liverpool midfield hadn’t done for ages. He would win the ball back off fellas thrice his size. “Excuse me Yaya, let’s just see that ball for a sec. Ta.”
I really liked Joe Allen. I think we all did. Then he got injured.
When he came back, he wasn’t quite the same. His passing wasn’t as crisp, or regular, and didn’t always make sense. He quite often stopped play as passes out from defence would go straight back to them, and he would try to win the ball back off fellas of greater size, but mostly seemed to just bounce off them.
I guess my main issue is that, for me, Allen has never really reached the heights of his Swansea days at Liverpool, or even the bar he set himself in his early Reds performances. I miss him.
One thing that may have hindered him has been his tag of the ‘Welsh Xavi’, bestowed on him by Rodgers on the day he was signed. It was intended as a bit of tongue-in-cheek praise, but has ended up following him throughout his time at the club, with many using it in a derogatory manner, akin to those who still to this day call Bruno Cheyrou ‘the next Zidane’.
I know it’s not necessarily fair to blame Allen for this, but it sums up my feelings of him that — on the rare occasions he has scored for Liverpool — the Reds have never won, and in fact all three goals have come on very disappointing nights. Against Zenit at Anfield when we were knocked out of the Europa League, at Oldham when we were knocked out of the FA Cup, and at Selhurst Park in the 0-6* last season (*source: Neil Atkinson). When Allen scores, I end up very unhappy. Perhaps this is all just based on association.
I didn’t have much of a problem with Allen until this season. But then there was the Basel game, and then at home to Bolton a month later. This was a turning point for me. This was when I decided that me and Joe Allen had fallen out.
Don’t get me wrong, plenty of players were poor in both of those games, and I am not laying both results solely at the door of the Welshman, but these were games that you felt could have been landmark moments for Allen, chances for him to make that role in the middle of midfield his own. He, along with others of course, was very much below par on both occasions. Misplaced passes (lots of them), shying away from tackles, a refusal to shoot and a general lack of urgency. Allen was beginning to get on my nerves.
Many people of course allude to his goal and assist numbers, or lack thereof, as the chief reason why Allen should not be in the side. It’s not really a strong argument as goals aren’t Allen’s game, but should they be?
In his one season in the Premier League at Swansea, under Rodgers remember, he scored four goals. He still hasn’t scored that many for Liverpool. It may well be then that he has been instructed not to bother with that side of things. He can clearly score goals, he’s done it a little bit before, but he never really comes anywhere near for the Reds. Since he arrived he has consistently averaged under one shot per game. It’s just not his thing.
However, the assists record is a bit more of a head scratcher. For a midfield player who specialises in passing, it is remarkable that he has not registered a single assist for Liverpool. Again, he managed two in his top flight year at Swansea, but not a single one since his move.
That raises the question that many ask themselves about Joe Allen. What is he for?
One problem that perhaps doesn’t do Allen any favours is that in his time at Liverpool he has largely played alongside Jordan Henderson. The vice-captain has become a vital part of the starting XI in the last year, but of course it wasn’t always this way. Henderson has never really been a specialist at anything either, but he won us over with his effort, his enthusiasm and his sheer determination to prove himself. It got to the point where Liverpool missed him badly in the title run-in last season, with some suggesting that his suspension may have cost us glory.
Neither Henderson nor Allen were goalscorers, assist machines or ball winners, they were just generic midfielders. Henderson has stepped up since then, but Allen seems a bit stuck.
Then there is Lucas. Allen seems to essentially be our back-up Lucas these days. Of course the problem is that he isn’t Lucas. He’s a diluted version of the Brazilian (or di-Lucas-ed if you’re a fan of laboured puns).
He can break up play, but Lucas is much better at it, and you notice when that’s not there. Allen did it well against Southampton, but his foul (and it was a foul, Brendan) that should have conceded a penalty was an example that he’s not at that same level. Of course you could argue that Lucas may have done exactly the same thing had he been there, but it was an act of panic. Lucas doesn’t panic.
I would be far from devastated if Allen were to remain a Liverpool player. Like I said, I like the guy, and I know there’s a very talented player in there. He used to be one, and his recent form may suggest that he’s starting to find that level again. Maybe regular games is the answer. My concern is that if Liverpool are to progress as a squad, I just feel they need to upgrade on what Allen brings to the table.
I look at Juventus. An astonishing power in Italy in recent years, and they look like they’re starting to impose themselves in the Champions League. Their regular midfield is Andrea Pirlo, Claudio Marchisio, Arturo Vidal and Paul Pogba. They dominate near enough every game they’re in, and win games often where you feel they could have managed it without a defence and attack.
In that four, every single player has a clear role, and is a specialist in one crucial part of play. Lucas has a specific skill he’s great at, Henderson has another skill that he’s great at, Gerrard the same, but Allen is just a bit of a ‘jack of all trades’, which would be more forgiveable if he did contribute at least a little bit on the goal front. The big problems is that what Allen is best at, he’s not been great at for a while.
People call him a water carrier, and that’s a fairly accurate description. A water carrier can be absolutely vital. I don’t agree with the idea that every great team needs one, but if you have a good one they can be just as important as your star striker. However, in the last couple of years it seems that Allen’s had a bit of a hole in his bucket (dear Liza).
Joe, if you happen to be reading this, please prove me wrong. Go out there and show me, and everyone, that Joe Allen is a boss, a maestro and indeed, the Welsh Xavi. Actually balls to that, the Welsh Joe Allen… who is brilliant at footy. The last week has been a good start to that.
I have some eggs. I have a face. Your move Joe.
That said, if anyone on the Kop can get a Kinks/Joe Allen chant going at City on Sunday then I will happily change my mind and keep him for the next decade.
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Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda
I understand fans frustrations with Joe, im a fan of his and spend my time ripping my hair out over the guy. But in his defence, he has been placed with injuries at Liverpool. I think this article forgets how good he was in our magical run last season…He would come off the bench and change games at times…He was on a good role until he got injured again…He seems like a player who takes time to get into the groove after injury, and after the last few games I think he’s getting back to his best…I just pray he doesn’t get injured because if he does, I can’t see Brendan having much more patience.
Sorry he is not good enough to play for Liverpool, he was a decent player in the Swansea side, but has no chance of making the step up to play for Liverpool. His play is so negative, he always goes backwards and was so lucky not to give a penalty away at Southampton. He should be sold with about 5 others who are surplus to requirements, then spend the money on a decent player
Totally agree mmright…Surplus too requirements…
Joe wouldn’t have got anywhere near a first XI shirt in any great Liverpool side and that is the only yardstick by which I can judge him .His style of insipid nothingness bores the crowd rigid
The problem with that argument is that none of the current eleven would.
If 3 years ago Brendan had signed the 22 year old Spanish Xavi rather than the Welsh version, there would have been plenty of fans making the same arguments for getting rid that they do now. “He’s too lightweight”, “He doesn’t score enough goals”, “He just plays short easy passes”….
Last year Allen played a big part in some of our best performances, so it is clear that when he is match fit he can be good enough for a Liverpool team challenging for the title.
There is a common refrain from our own fans that Allen (or Henderson, or Lucas for that matter) would not get in to the Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal teams, and that if we want to become dominant at home and in Europe we need upgrades. That might be the case, yet strangely we can be very competitive with the midfield we have.
I enjoyed this article and totally agree with you. It’ll be interesting to see whether he or Can gets to be the more attacking midfielder v Besiktas tonight.
“…plenty of players were poor in both of those games (Basel, Bolton W) , and I am not laying both results solely at the door of the Welshman”
Well, no – but then you’ve also not written an article saying how you think the other 13/14 lads involved in those games were largely poor as well.
Fact is if we’d beaten Basle and mullered Bolton, Joe still wouldn’t have received much praise unless he’d scored a couple.
Neil almost whispered his praise of Allen after the match against Southampton – almost as if he’d been confessing to a Priest – “Don’t tell anyone, Father, but I think Joe Allen might possibly be quite good…”
He’s never going to have his own song sung by 20,000+ lads, but lets give the lad the same chance we’ve given Lucas, h.
hus missus had a kid in his first season and he lost it. Paisley wrote all players who became fathers off for a year. I think that’s a factor. My kids put the final nail in my football career too, but there were already significant amounts of nails in it already!
There’s been lots of debate recently about who was the better midfielder: Stevie G or Paul Scholes. Both all-time great English midfielders in my opinion, but the one thing Gerrard had than Paul Scholes never did was the ability to change a game on his own. We can all think of multiple games where Liverpool were pretty shite but Gerrard hauled us over the line, or maybe didn’t manage to haul us over the line but stood head and shoulders above his playing colleagues on the day. Scholes rarely did this. When ManU played well Scholes was often their best player, but you barely noticed him on days when ManU hardly functioned. Or maybe they hardly functioned because Scholes didn’t play well? Regardless, the point is that as an individual his performance was mirrored in that of the team, and vice-versa.
He’s not yet in Scholes’ league, but Allen is very similar in this regard. He plays well in a Liverpool team that is playing well, but you never say and probably never will: “We were crap today but I thought Joe Allen played well”. I think this has been Allen’s major problem this season. We were crap for large part of it. As our performances have steadily improved, so Joe Allen is starting to be noticed and his value appreciated.
I disagree that he is surplus to requirements and, paradoxically, any improvement in overall quality the summer signings bring will lead to further improvement in Allen, and make him an even more important member of the squad. I’m convinced of it. He wasn’t worth what we paid for him when we paid it, but given he’s probably starting on the bench when everyone is fit I doubt we’ll be spending the sort of money in the summer to get a bench-starting upgrade on Allen. And if that sort of money were kicking around, I can think of several positions where we’d be better off spending that cash.
Keep Joe.
I don’t know how you managed to shoehorn Scholes and Gerrard into a piece on Joe Allen but you make a valid point. Scholes wasn’t paid to win games on his own; that was Rooney or Ronaldo’s job. Similarly we shouldn’t expect Joe Allen to win games on his own; that’s Coutinho or Sturridge’s job. If only Joe was as good as Scholes though!
Scholes in his pomp was hitting double figures in goals and something similar in assists.
There is no comparison between Scholes and Allen.
Agreed. I don’t even understand the Scholes v Gerrard argument: very different players who would have complement each other, had England employed a smarter manager. Joe Allen’s a very good squad player, Scholes one of the first name on the team sheet.
The Scholes v Gerrard comparison was simply to make the point that some players affect games more than others, can by themselves change the course of a game or perform at a level above the general performance of their team. Other players – equally as good in many ways – don’t seem to possess that ability.
For the avoidance of doubt, there was no attempt to claim Allen is on the same level as either Scholes or Gerrard; rather I’m saying – like Scholes – Allen’s performances seem to reflect that of his team’s. When Liverpool are playing well he can look like a top-notch midfielder, but when we’re poor, Allen ‘s individual performance is never any different.
This one of the reasons why England as a country is so backward in terms of football. Joe Allen’s football intelligence is top-notch. He’s always aware of the things around him. Just a look at the penalty incident. He sees that Skrtel and Can are going for the same header and Djuricic is about to run behind them. Even though he missed the ball just slightly; he did brillianty to anticipate the danger. This is one of things Allen is superb at.
Another thing is his ball reception. Youth players in Spain, Netherlands, Germany etc. are taught to receive the ball in a body shape, that allows you to play the ball without inviting too much pressure. Allen does this all the time, and he is brilliant at it. I don’t know the english term, but in Germany it’s called the ‘strategische Ballannahme”.
I’ll give you an example.
http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/southampton-vs-liverpool-premier-league-full-match/ (minute 15:34)
Targett missplaces the pass and Allen is about to receive it. He would have invited big pressure from Davis if he had done this in the body shape he’s walking towards the ball. Instead, he opens up the body, turns and plays it with his left foot. Small detail, but incredibly important for the flow of the game.
And I do not agree that he hasn’t managed to reach the heights of his first 5-10 games because I thought that he was outstanding in the second half of last season.
I think that as football fans we can be a bit too focussed on looking at a players skillset in isolation rather than viewing it holistically with that of their team mates. Getting the team dynamic right is more important than putting the eleven best players on the pitch.
Best point of the whole thread and that includes the article itself. I think it backs Cali’s point (above comment) that English peoples knowledge of football is atrocious, myself included.
Imagine how good he would be if he actually passed forwards on occasion.
I would wager that the times LFC take far, far too long in transition from defence to attack, Allen is involved. Playing those pointless 1-2s with a centreback or getting it from a midfield partner and knocking it back without even looking upfield
Scapegoat anyone? The noisy critics who lambasted Lucas and Hendo, and more recently those vociferous in their damning of Sakho and Mignolet, need a new target? Two poor results and Hey, I Can See a Common Factor? Same ones calling Brendan out not long ago? Patience and understanding seem to be in short supply. All of these players have/will benefit from a run in the team under a stable system and with more or less the same personnel. Until Allen gets the same opportunity it’s difficult if not unfair to judge. It’s a collective effort. A combination of skills and systems. To isolate one component is too simplistic.
As for passing back, it’s necessary. The game can’t be played at frenetic pace in constant forward motion (unless you are Craig Johnston). Move the opposition around. Draw them out. Down the left and back again then try the right. It’s the same in the middle. Maybe the centre back is actually requesting a return pass because he can see upfield. Patience. I’m happy being a supporter and not a critic.
I think Lil Joe is hampered as central midfielder by not having physicality to fall back on – if he’s having trouble getting the ball he can’t muscle someone off it or throw in a “firm-but-fair” challenge quite so easily.
The assists thing is a concern, when passing is your supposed “superpower” , but probably tied to how he is deployed, and how he sticks to instructions, rather than a succession of failed forward passes …
Take a look at Xabi’s stats at Liverpool. Very few assists.
I am reliably informed that he really struggled with the step up to Liverpool from Swansea. He was genuinely overwhelmed by playing with Stevie G apparently. This apparently formed the basis of the sessions he had with Steve Peters that he’s spoken about.
Would anyone go so far as to say they think Allen is better than Lucas and that when they’re both fit he should start? I agree totally about the holistic sentiment but it seems clear that the Hendo-Lucas combo is better than Hendo-Allen.
I like Joe Allen, I think injuries & not being in the team regularly has affected him badly. The passing back to defenders could equally be true of Henderson, but as long as it’s not when we’re losing I don’t have a problem with it. It’s keeping the ball away from the opposition, rather that than boot a 50 yard long ball into touch or to the opposition.
There is such a thing as a forward pass that isn’t long. It’s something Lucas does exceptionally well but (aside from a good one for Studge’s goal against CP) Allen doesn’t do it well enough.
But he does do it. Check Sturridge’s goal against Palace.
I genuinely can’t understand all the fuss about Joe Allen. He’s an excellent squad player able to slot into all the midfield roles and do a job. There are areas of his game that he could improve on, but that goes for all our midfielders, none of whom, Gerrard excepted, are particularly proficient finishers.
According to Sqawka, 82% of his completed passes were forward passes.
Is he good enough for Liverpool? Which Liverpool ? The team in our imaginations that wins everything and buys the best players in the world.? The real Liverpool that is improving and with some encouragement might go on to great things by bringing young , hungry players through? Time will tell . I like him . He has good technique and is brave and calm on the ball despite being physically disadvantaged against some of his opponents.. He complements Henderson well and I’d certainly rather have him in the middle than Gerrard.
Watching him tonight , I thought he did some things very well in a congested midfield with very little time on the ball. He, and the team, missed Henderson in there. Compared to, for example ,Manqillo who had more time and space out on the flank and did absolutely nothing with it , Joe tried to be progressive when he could until succumbing to tiredness and the general malaise later on. Took a good pen too. Heroes and Villains .
With a player like Allen who in certain games can look a decent player, in others non existent and in many the welsh Diao, it can be difficult to measure his team contribution. As mentioned in related articles he doesn’t score or more worryingly, makes NO assist’s.
This may be too simplistic but ask yourself, would he get in any top 6 side? Ok, he may do a Job at Southampton but the others- not a chance.
P.S putting Lovren on last penalty
Reference to Paisley saying that he stated that a player goes off the boil when he becomes a father. Torres form went poor after his wife had given birth [to twins?] so there could be something in that statement Bob made.