WHATEVER the individual take on Tuesday’s team selection – and we had everything from bold and brave to stupid and silly – most agreed on one thing: It meant the intensity of focus on Brendan Rodgers would increase when Chelsea came to town.
It was always likely to be one of the most difficult games of the season. Given the opposing sides’ respective starts to their campaigns, it was also one that Liverpool were likely to lose.
A defeat, the third of the week. is bad enough in itself as it means a start to the season that now reads as being a point worse than the record ‘achieved’ by Roy Hodgson in his first 11 league games as Liverpool manager.
That’s not to say it’s fair to bracket the two managers together, far from it. But while Rodgers undoubtedly increased his stock and banked some goodwill with Liverpool’s so-near-yet-so-far campaign last season, it’s not something that will last forever. Football moves fast. Positivity and plans can quickly spin down the plug hole. Ask Kenny Dalglish.
Rodgers knows this. He’s knows he’s under pressure. And he looks like a man feeling the weight of the suit. It’s why he is pacing around his kitchen at 4.30am. Why he is reading match reports of a League Cup win over Swansea and questioning journalists about why they aren’t more positive.
So why then unnecessarily ramp up the pressure on yourself in a game as big as Real Madrid away? If Liverpool had achieved victory in the lair of the 10-times European Champions, Rodgers’ much talked about decisions would have been vindicated. As it was, a plucky performance interlaced with plenty of positives was never going to placate the masses. So to Chelsea then. Out of the good performers in Spain, who would start against Jose Mourinho’s side?
After claiming the reaction from the media to his selection for the Bernabeu defeat did the players he picked a “disservice” and hailing them for performing “magnificently”, Rodgers ‘rewarded’ them by bombing them out of the side and making just one change to the side that performed so poorly at Newcastle with Can replacing Allen.
Rodgers had claimed he was not resting players in Spain. His selection for the Premier League match said otherwise. What happened to the much-heralded meritocracy? Where is the future incentive for Kolo Toure, Javier Manquillo and Fabio Borini to knuckle down when their manager has sent them a message that even performing well against the European Champions in the continent’s top competition counts for nothing?
And what of the other side to the coin? What message does it send to Dejan Lovren, Glen Johnson, and Mario Balotelli? That mediocre is good enough? That they are guaranteed starters? Simply putting it down to rotation when the team has lost one less league game in 83 days than it did in a whole season doesn’t really wash.
It was clear standing on the Kop against Chelsea that Rodgers has chipped away at the feel-good this season and for many his substitutions in another defeat proved a step too far. Booing anything to do with your own team always feels at odds with what I’d regard as the job of a football supporter but others clearly think differently. Plenty vented their frustrations at the substitutions of Emre Can and Philippe Coutinho – Liverpool’s two best players on the day – by jeering the manager, others stood silently, yet more described the manager in terms that would be music to the ears of a libel lawyer.
But when good performers are removed and a struggling Steven Gerrard remains, it’s easy to understand. If the team selection in Madrid suggested Rodgers had finally found a way to answer those that say he has a blindspot when it comes to the skipper, Anfield four days later said otherwise.
I’ve tried to take on board the efforts to sugar-coat the start to the season, acknowledged the performance of other teams and how, despite everything, the realistic aims for the start of the season remain within reach.
But while, to me at least, it felt like we were approaching a crisis, it now feels like we’re in one. Last season we lost six games all season. This time around we’ve lost five from 11. It can just as quickly turnaround, we know that – we saw that happen last season with the fantastic, and unexpected, run of form that propelled Liverpool to the top of the league.
The problem this time is there’s little to hang a hat on. Daniel Sturridge? Fantastic, can’t wait to see him in a red shirt again. The panacea to all our ills? Just can’t see it. As painful as it is to write, there are issues all over the pitch: goalkeeper, defenders, defending, the disjointed and ineffective midfield, the captain, the forwards that don’t threaten.
Perhaps most worrying of all is the spirit. We feel too nice, too weak – too willing to let ‘here we go again’ invade the collective thought process. The pressing from all quarters has gone, the pace of pass has gone, the belief has gone. Now it’s in the stands too. In its place I see players taking the easy option; players confused by what they are being asked to do; players snapping at each other and sulking on the pitch.
There’s always something to cling to: the coulda, woulda, shoulda. But while Liverpool were hard done to by a referee from Greater Manchester again, a draw with Chelsea would simply have veiled another unconvincing display.
Liverpool had just one shot on target in the second half against Chelsea and have created just two open play chances in the box in the last two league games.
Yet still Balotelli – zero goals in nine league games – starts, and starts on his own. The result? Zero shots on target, zero shots off target, zero chances created. Peter Crouch blanked in 11 league games before he hit the net against Wigan. He was dropped first though and used as a substitute when it was clear he wasn’t on his game.
Liverpool have kept two clean sheets in their last 17 Premier League games.
Yet still Gerrard sits deep and plays the 90. Still he is easily bypassed and looks frustrated. Still Lovren plays. Still the unwanted statistics about his defensive mistakes build up. Still the side concedes so easily from set pieces. A free header for Costa? The positioning on that still of the game that surely everyone has seen by now?
Liverpool have a goal difference of minus one now, a goals total half that of Chelsea’s and a goal conceded column three times worse than Southampton’s. Ah, but the Saints are going to tail off, lose momentum, sink down the league, right? Well maybe not. There’s an 11 point gap between Ronald Koeman’s side and Liverpool now.
In the meantime, Rodgers keeps offering very similar answers to the same questions on the pitch while the excuses are building up off it.
I want him to succeed, but this is now officially the biggest test of his career. Referencing injuries post-Chelsea had an air of desperation about it. He’s spoke too this season about the age of the squad, about buying potential, about comparative budgets of Liverpool v others and about Steven Gerrard’s contract situation.
Sometimes it’s better to say nothing.
Most accept that the current malaise isn’t solely down to Rodgers. The buying strategy, the wages offered and the negotiation procedure belong to a group. No matter, Rodgers is the public face.
That said, he may well wonder why – as scrutiny of his suitability for the job increases – that more questions aren’t being asked of others at the club.
Gerrard said in a soundbite perhaps best avoided to the Telegraph: “I would love a Fabregas or Costa here, but I have to understand how the owners want to do it and accept I am a Liverpool player, not a Chelsea or Manchester City player. They [Fenway Sports Group] have gone on record saying they want to bring exciting young talent into the club. You can’t just expect that to click overnight.”
Paul Joyce of The Express (as good a source as any re LFC) reported this week: “Liverpool….have overseen yet another revamp of their domestic scouting operation after releasing a trio of their English based scouts.
“Michael McGlynn, the club’s long serving assistant chief scout, Mel Johnson, who covered south east England, and first team scout Alan Harper have all departed in recent weeks.
“In a separate development, Paddy Riley has also been allowed to move to Aston Villa to take up a role as head of recruitment.
“The reshuffle means the influence of Michael Edwards, Liverpool’s head of performance and analysis, Dave Fallows, their head of scouting, and chief scout Barry Hunter has been strengthened.”
When pointing fingers increase by the week regarding Liverpool’s recent transfer record should the club be strengthening the position of someone so key to it?
That Diego Costa scored the winner yesterday merely underlined that Liverpool have struggled to attract the best, the striker subject of a bid from the club before deciding to stick with Atletico. Until Chelsea came knocking.
It’s not all about huge fees either, again, sadly, as Chelsea demonstrate. Courtois was £8m, Cahill £7m, Ivanovic £9.7m and Azpilicueta £7m.
I’d love to be cheerful about Liverpool but right now I’m struggling. I’ve read some people taking positives from the defeat. I saw a side giving the ball away, seemingly clueless against a high press at times, and struggling to play out in the way Rodgers orders. I saw a goalkeeper that can’t kick. I saw a striker that maybe we could have bought score his 10th of the season after it was offered to him on a plate. If anyone should know about Costa, it should be us. He was given an easy ride.
Rodgers has said: “You have to be bold enough to make the decisions as a manager and that is why you are paid the money you are. If you make more wrong ones than right ones you will be out of work, it’s as simple as that.”
Sadly, I have to agree.
Bold is dropping big-money signings. Bold is experimenting with systems and abandoning philosophies in favour of achieving results. Bold is hooking Steven Gerrard, whether he likes it or not.
Pics: David Rawcliffe
Nothing more to add than spot on.
Loved the Mingolet clip. The hand held up saying ‘sorry’ as Glen’s head drops to his chest. Aspas said good bye with the worst corner I’ve ever seen. I wonder if Mingolet wasn’t saying sorry, just ‘so long lads’?
The funniest thing I’ve read in ages – very good! :-)
Good piece Gareth. Meritocracy v complacency, conservatism v boldness. Not looking good. Brendan lost a lot of good will this week – not with his selection in Madrid, but with his selection yesterday.
I think Rodgers is missing the extra training time he had with the squad last season due to no Europe or cup commitments. This season he has brought in a load of new recruits and has a lot less time to work with them. The players also don’t look as fit or fresh. Maybe time for him to bring in some new back room staff with experience of competing on many fronts to help with planning and running the limited training sessions.
Saying that, I think we will improve in the new year when we’ve been bombed out of the Champions league – We have to finish either second or fourth – third and a return to the Europa league will kill our chances of top 4.
Every aspect of Liverpool’s attempted progression this season has gone wrong.
The Owners/Transfer Committee – Caps on transfers!? Mental. How are you looking to become the best club in modern football doing that? See that list of Rodgers’ transfers? All 25 or under except Kolo and Lambert when signed. No single signing over 25 mill. No 30,40,50mill+ “Marquee” signing in 5 transfer windows. For me, that’s the worst problem this club faces going forward.
Then Rodgers (my fellow countryman) – I love him, but (there’s always a “but”), he has done himself no favours this term. It baffles me why he has ditched the diamond, the pressing, the figuring things out and (now) meritocracy. Those were aspects of his management that made us great, unplayable for a large spell last season. I can’t find the answers as to why he has ditched these ideas/ways.
Lastly the players.
Lovren: Not a leader. Just read about his time at Lyon. Jaw slacked at what it contained. Mentally weak in polarization to what he was brought in for.
Mario: Doesn’t seem to know what he is doing and when frustrated, only then does he work for the cause. Constantly offside.
Johnson: Along with Lovren, the dumbest player in our team. Both made the most bizarre and downright amateurish decisions up against Hazard/Azpilicuelta and Costa respectively yesterday.
Gerrard: The manager can’t play him in a holding role, at home, when playing one upfront. There just isn’t enough fire-power elsewhere. It also, sadly, looks more and more like he is holding back others from doing their thing, jelling like a team and ultimately stopping the side from playing with much needed fluidity.
I have thought for some time that managing Gerrard would prove to be one of BRs biggest tests. BR has tried all manner of things to free up Gerrard, things that largely failed when we had much better quality in attack. To persist much longer would be folly.
The one thing that we haven’t seen is Gerrard as a sub on 65 min or so, further forward and tasked to give us everything he’s got in attack in one concentrated effort. And honestly, I don’t see an effective role for him as a starter at this stage.
Or as a centre-back/part of a back 3. Probably won’t now either, shame as he could have prolonged his career had he adapted.
Spot on, been saying this since last year. Lampard at Chelsea should be an excellent model for use/playing time for our legendary skipper a he finishes out his career with us. To pretend as though he can handle being a weekly starter with our schedule and his age has killed us this season. Most of his Hollywood passes are doing nothing but giving the ball away from Johnson who is also slow now and at that point out of position. Can should be the guy for that role and should have been since the start of the season. Stevie is my absolute favorite player of all time but it’s easy to see he needs to step aside, or be told to.
Emre Can provided the best moments and it may have seemed harsh to take him off, but he was out of the game when Chelsea had the ball…no effect whatsoever. He was tactically clueless. So it seemed was Brendan
My only hope is that this season will be an eye opener for FSG. That their strict business model or pragmatism or whatever approach their business gurus are telling them to use for LFC has so far been utter bollocks. Look at how we actually qualified for CL ahead of schedule. Do they dare to deny that a player worth 70m-80m actually helped us in qualifying?
Granted that they are not G&H who sold without investing back into the team, but by not attracting the excellent players with high wages, it would only be detrimental in both short and long term. What’s the point of qualifying for CL when you cannot compete in Europe and also locally? There is a higher chance of not being able to maintain qualification in the next season, thus missing out on the money it brings.
So far FSG has bought players below 25m, bar Carroll, and looked to be skint in paying high wages for players who fell within the price cap they put themselves. Look what has resulted so far this season. If FSG does not care about winning any silverware, and fourth place is always the target, then we are all screwed.
Does anyone know what their recent visit to Dubai was all about?
Regarding Dubai, please see http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/365105.html
Henry went with Rick Parry. Reading between the lines, I would suggest this was a first round of visits focused on delivering sponsorship for the redevelopment of Anfield. Not naming rights to the whole ground (God forbid) but perhaps to stands/new facilities.
One one hand this is good news: we aren’t going to end up with the “Dunkin’ Donuts stand in association with Subway”. On the other hand, let’s hope we don’t end up in bed with national investment fund which also counts ISIL as a preferred partner.
More to Dubai trip than Naming Rights or Sposorship in my opinion
Why would John Henry go personally ad with Rick Parry, when he has Ian Ayre and others working for him all over the world
Can’t help thinking it could be the start of another sales process
I’ve never been able to shake the suspicion that FSG are certainly willing (if not trying) to sell the club.
The transfer policy certainly supports that, ie don’t give big, long-term contracts to players, ala Di Maria, etc. This relative level of prudence makes the club far more attractive to prospective buyers who won’t have long-term (possibly underperforming) liabilities to get rid of which would add extra cost to the purchase price of the club.
FSG can say we went for Costa and Sanchez but a) we went for Costa before his incredible season with Atletico last year, when he wouldn’t have comanded the fee or wages he did this summer, and b) Sanchez was going to be funded entirely by the Suarez money and would not have been on higher wages than Luis, so pretty much like-for-like.
I’ve long suspected FSG have become disillusioned with football after realising FFP was not going to be the great leveller they were hoping for. I have a strong suspicion that were an attractive offer to come in tomorrow then FSG would take it. Which could be a bad thing considering Parry is involved. Maybe he’ll give Hicks & Gillette another crack at it!
FSG have been doing everything right to make the books look good for selling the club. Their MLB methods don’t work in football. MLB allows you to hit the reset button once a year regardless of how well or poor the “franchise” has performed, not so with football.
They’ll be glad to get out of it altogether. The problem is finding a buyer with that much money available. There aren’t many that could afford it. I think we’ll be seeing new owners once the stadium is ready.
I sang all game though not many joined me. I dont need telling the “job” of being a fan, not much of a job when u pay 750 for the privilege, so Ill boo if a fucking want
Good for you, la. I said it was my opinion so not sure why you’re kicking off. Do what you want.
Just summed up all my thoughts/concerns perfectly, plus some more insight too. Great article!
And the additional comments from Mark Douglas – spot on!
Behind BR and this great club but just can’t understand the thinking behind his recent decisions. Even with Studge coming back, I can’t see things miraculously fixing themselves, such is the damage thay has been done.
Let’s hope we are proven wrong. YNWA
Ta, Fowler67. That looks to be the official news. We can only hope for a filthy rich oil sheik to come in and pay obscene Dinars for naming a section with ‘The Dubai Corner’ and the proceedings to be used to buy the likes of Messi. No harm at all in having a kebab joint in the grounds too.
Fair dos, but the people who sit on the hands all game quietly tuting shudnt be seen as the thing to do, we need to voice our opinions, hate booing but watching someone like balotelli stroll about for 90! again! is a bit too much, rodgers needs telling were not aving him bottling it by not leaving out the big characters, and take off players who play well just cos its the easy option and they wont give him stick like stevie or mario would, spineless
Its very strange that its now FSG’s fault that we can’t attract players. Isn’t it part of a managers job to attract players? I’ve said before this Transfer Committee saves Brendan from a lot of questions. He made huge noises about every buy was his man etc etc yet people still seem to want to believe these players are foisted upon him and nothing to do with him.
He should buy that Committee some lovely Xmas presents for taking a lot of the heat for his transfer dealings
There is a committee. There is a transfer strategy. Plenty of players are signed over the manager’s head, not just at Liverpool.
Then I am baffled by that setup. Genuinely baffled
It’s basically the ‘power of crowds’ approach, wrote a piece on it way back: http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/05/booking-up-our-ideas/
FSG wanted a director of football to work with Rodgers, he said no, and now he’s ended up with a director of football by committee.
Thanks for that. A few points re the approach, not your fine article:
We’re fucked.
We’re a selling club.
Rafa will never come back.
Brendan Rodgers’ having final say was presumably for public consumption only.
We’re picking and mixing: Lyon had the highest wage bill in France: we’re cutting ours.
The approach is incoherent and assumes a rationality that simply doesn’t exist. Hence the financial crisis.
It explains Mario and Rickie Lambert but fails to explain Adam Lallana and Dejan Lovren.
I suspect, as do many supporters, that we’re neither Moneyball nor old school. Lallana and Lovren were Rodgers signings, Mario and Lambert the committee’s. I’m guessing of course, but reading between the lines, it makes sense.
Is this a good or a bad thing? Is it inevitable once a manager does well? (probably not, but impetus is hard to resist).
Are Southampton running along similar lines to Lyon? If so……
Dejan Lovren is Mornington Crescent! The missing link.
Tell us more, if you know, please.
Agree with the second point: Chelsea are a case in point.
Is Rodgers not part of the transfer committee, and has the final say in transfers, or is this all myth and speculation?
Yes.
Chris
1 November 2014 at 11:44 pm
Im not going to do the usual post match thing and go through all the players and the decisions the manager has made. I don’t feel like repeating myself. Again. That’s the fucking problem.
Btw, we are all very much aware that Brendan Rodgers is not only on The Transfer Committee but negotiated a “final say” on all signings when he signed his new contract, yes?
Two things I’ve heard since then:
(a) the “final say” has not been adhered to, meaning signings the manager didn’t want, who he has subsequently treated like shit and not given them a fair crack at the whip. FSG is fucking fuming with this.
(b) the “final say” has been adhered to and FSG, Henry in particular, is fucking fuming for wasting another £100m, just like under Kenny. Thus, FSG/Henry are now intent on implementing the Director of Football post they wanted to introduce when they sacked Kenny, to stop this from happening again. Problem being every manager they targeted (we all remember Rodgers was about 4th choice?) including Brendan, refused to work under a DoF. This has got Rodgers’ back up just months after being so trusted.
I don’t know what to believe, but I know things are very cold behind the scenes.
Im sure the lads of TAW know this as well or have heard this but haven’t said so on here or on the radio/podcast. Possibly out of respect for the club, possibly due to journalistic integrity, possibly due to hoping/thinking it’s not true and things would right themselves quickly.
But we’re in a bad way again. Not Hicks/Gillette/Hodgson bad, but pretty fucking bad. So bad it would take two hours to write all about it.
I’ll leave that for the coming days and coming defeats to Madrid and Chelsea I think.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-fc-transfer-7185770
Unfortunately what is said in public and the reality of the situation are often two different things. Rodgers clearly likes to be seen as the man in charge, and after going so public on his opposition to a director of football, he would do.
But he’s wanted to sign players that have been vetoed, and players have been signed that he didn’t want. Have that on decent authority, and I’m not trying to be some big balls ITK. Not my thing.
As I said before, it’s fairly commonplace across Europe that a team, or a DoF are involved in signing players. What’s important for me is that if you’re pointing the finger, you point in the right place about the right thing.
FSG/’the committee’ set budgets and profiles of players they’d like to sign. They do the negotiations and set limits on wages/fees.
Rodgers clearly has questions to answer about the situation the club is currently in, but so do FSG, the scouts, the committee, Ayre etc
I’m not for a minute advocating #rodgersout but as he said if gets things wrong, he’ll eventually go. But it seems to me other people at the club should also be questioning themselves about the transfer hits and misses over the last couple of years not just Rodgers.
That is the whole problem with the set up we have, not knowing where the buck stops. If it is Brendan Rodger who is deciding the buyings, then FSG should make a decision quick if they are really, actually unhappy. I believe it is a convenient set up in which it is meant to be obscure, with both sides getting away with bullshit and perceived ignorance. No substance in suggesting that, of course, but isn’t the owner the big boss? If Brendan Rodgers bullshitted his way into securing his managerial post, FSG should do something now if they really cared for us to be successful. Get someone in, anything, or at least be frank with the fans of what their real intention is ie target top 4 every season with no real aim to win anything, if we do, it is just a bonus for the fans. After that we could decide whether we should once again travel the ways of ousting the owners.
excellent piece. summed up situation perfectly.
Lallana, Toure, Borini and Manquillo all should have started. I agree with Pauloffinland’s good will reference.
I have a recollection that Rodgers didn’t want Sturridge originally, now he is pinning all his hopes – and those of our Football Club – on him.
He tried to sell Henderson as well don’t forget.
Don’t think he can spot a player myself – Lovren / Agger ???
Agger wanted to leave, he said his body couldn’t take the PL any longer. He’s hardly played for Brondy either, he’s done as a player.
Henderson was a make-weight for Dempsey, it didn’t come off, and Henderson is now vice-captain.
And where did this Rodgers not wanting Sturridge come from? Back it up with a reference.
Rodgers wanted Sturridge on loan first and opposed a permanent deal. It’s a bit of a ‘so what’ though – things change in football all the time.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/aug/30/liverpool-hearts-europa-league-match-report
If you remember an awful lot of the fanbase didn’t want Sturridge either at the time, (myself included). Knew he had ability but couldn’t fathom out why he wasn’t cutting the mustard at City or the Chavs
I sense it’s all going to go downhill for Rodgers. With one game a week he had time; now the games are coming thick and fast he has no answers.
Bad signings always kill Liverpool managers. And Rodgers is very poor in the transfer market since he arrived. Sturridge and Coutinho is all we can list as players who really improved the 1st team.
Gerrard is a major issue, BR is looking fragile at the moment but why cant gerrard make it easy for him, hold his hands up and admit he’s not up to it. Surely he can see it himself watching the games back that he’s struggling.
Why no recall for jordan ibe,
Re Gerrard, it’s important to state that there’s no need for humiliation here, this should be a decision that takes place in private. What is more of a concern is that Rodgers had the opportunity last season, do you remember how miserable Gerrard looked after the Spurs game? He was quite clear about having to earn his place in the team. The danger is, and it was always likely, that Gerrard turns into a scapegoat when his decline could and should have been managed more sensibly. Whose to blame for this, I’ve no idea.
Rogers was were he was last season due to Suarez’s efforts. The Most annoying thing I must’ve ever heard him say was Mario not being here to replace Suarez. If not, then why buy him? You lost 31 goals, 11 assists and a sh!tload of energy upfront. He’s just arrogant.
Excellent and heartfelt article. We may not know who picks the transfers, but we surely know who picks the team. The sidelining of Sakho this year was the first sign of trouble, now it feels like it is snowballing.
Flanno being picked consistently on merit last season was a joy to both the team and the fans, dropping the meritocracy is undoubtedly Rodger’s biggest mistake. He has no Champions League experience and unfortunately that is showing. He needs to go back to the courage and conviction which were his greatest strengths last year.
Painfully accurate assessment, to a word, unfortunately.
We’ve been here many times before. I liken it to workplace scenario’s. You respect your manager, you fulfil their orders because you respect their judgement. You even turn a blind eye when something doesn’t seem that logical. Then one day they make a mistake too far and it all crashes down. Once that point is reached all respect is lost and it’s extremely difficult to regain it. Reminds me a classic Billy Bragg line “Then one day it happened. She cut her hair and I stopped loving her”. Rodgers has to be very careful with words over the next few days and weeks. The less said the better. Every sound byte will be interpreted in 2 ways by the fans. Some will hear wisdom, some will hear a desperate man talking shit. The truth is, he’s got himself to blame. He laid his stall out after the Madrid game. A win yesterday and we move on. The same performance as QPR, Hull and Newcastle and the dam bursts. Obviously, we got the latter. We’ve got 4 league games after the break before we play Utd and Arsenal. If we come out with 12 points then the crisis is over for now. Less than 7 points and I think the damage becomes irreversible. Not terminal just irreversible where only a major achievement can win the respect back. It rarely happens though. Once the tide turns it’s difficult to hold it back.
And where do we go?? Another manager to come in and decide that he doesn’t want any of the players that are there, another rebuilding job, another 3 year project. Do we want a progressive attacking philosophy or a root it up the pitch one. If we are winning matches one nil consistently with Rafa style football will half the “fans” be whinging about the days when we were destroying teams and playing some the best football in Europe.
A few weeks ago they wanted to burn Alan Pardew at the stake, thankfully for them the club held firm. Ours is a marriage that simply has to work. The Balotelli gamble was a mistake, that’s where they must start, do the right thing for the club here regardless of the financial loss. Hard work & pressing can then return.
You misunderstand, I’m not calling for his head. In my mind I’ll re-evaluate that in May but it’s unlikely I’ll see getting rid as the answer. I’m talking more about that moment some one falls off their pedestal. I’ve had those stages where I wanted to name my kids and my dog after Liverpool managers but at some point with all of them came a time when something snapped and I saw them as fallible. Speaking from my own experience it took time and being out of the job for my respect to return. I was pointing out that ‘interpretation’ is crucial. You know how it is. If someone has an agenda everything is tailored to suit it. It can be like that with interviews. The same speech from one week to the next can lead from feelings of he’s like the Dalai Lama to he fuckin irritates me. It’s only down to interpretation and for most, interpretation is based on how you feel about him in general. I feel a lot of people turned this week. I think it’s what gets referred to as ‘he’s lost the crowd’. I certainly don’t think it’s the majority, far from it but there has been a big outpouring of it and I was saying it’s very difficult to reverse. I’m annoyed he left himself open to this. I thought he was smarter than that.
Hi, For the first time in ages I was sat away from the Kop so can only comment from where I was in the lower cent – near the annie road. Most people just had a brief moan when the subs were carried out – me included! Certainly nothing OTT.
On a wider note managers up and down the land are paraded in front of the press once or twice a week and asked the same questions in slightly different ways. Its no wonder they start to come out with inane comments, from their perspective it must be so frustrating. That’s not to say that more is less would not be a bad rule for BR.
I think we all take way too much of what is said far too seriously trying to divine the meaning that we want to hear. Used to call it Kremlin watching!!
Bob never fell off his pedestal. If he made a single mistake, it was selling Jimmy Case too early. Not much of an error though, given our results!
I always felt he retired a bit too early really – only did about 40 years. I remember being in shock at the time. I started supporting Lverpool around 79 but by 82 I was massively into it. My memory may be playing tricks on me but I feel I was getting taken to every game by then. I’ve certainly got all the programmes still from then and there’s no games missing. My dads mate was probably buying them for me. Still to this day I can remember where I was for the Milk Cup final against Spurs and who I was with. We were all in my bedroom listening to it on the radio and making up derogatory songs about Steve Archibald after he put them in front. Anyway, you can imagine my love of Paisley being that age and having all those cups to celebrate. The only downside was I didn’t know any different. I thought that’s just how it was if you supported Liverpool. It set me up for a fall in life. I still think he’s one of the greatest men to walk this earth though. A true gentleman the likes of which you just don’t see now.
What ever way you look at it FSG’s ideas of commoli and now this committee haven’t worked at all, agree the scouts and that need lookin at, are these the same scouts who bought jo and robinho? what made us get them particular scouts and give them so much power, committee is sound if u get people who know what they r doing in a committee if not its just as shit as commoli was and they shud be spewd like he was. Maybe the fela whoes giving jobs to these nuggets needs looking at as well. To not back a manager fully who almost won the league is criminal imo, heads ave gotta roll
Now you’re talking. Exactly these are the scouts who bought jo & robinho. They are the ones who bought balotelli too. They knew him & knew exactly what we were getting. Rumours have it an enormous fee was paid to his agent in thus deal too.
One possible theory is that Rodgers didn’t have the balls to exclude Gerrard so felt he had to include the other senior players so as not to be accused of favouritism. In fact he’s made it worse for himself in the process. He needs to take Steven into his confidence and explain how he wants to manage him going forward – in the best interests of the club. If Steven’s the club man we all think he is it shouldn’t be a difficult conversation. I doubt that he actually enjoys being exposed the way he has been in some games recently – yesterday in particular.
Great piece again from Robbo.
What needs to happen here on out? Rodgers needs to change. We have less points after 11 games than Souness, Evans, Houillier, Benitez, Dalglish and even Roy fucking Hodgson had in their last seasons at the club. Think about that for a second. Let that sink in. None of them had £120m to spend in the preceding Summer either.
His behaviours are becoming worrying and have been seen before. Rodgers took over Reading summer of 2009. Given ‘substantial funds’ in the summer window to ‘build upon’ success left by Steve Coppell. Less than 6 months later he was sacked.
This is what Reading’s chairman stated after he sacked Rodgers 5 years ago:
“I understand he didn’t have much time but we got on a slippery slope and it just got worse. Signings didn’t settle, Brendan was adamant his style of play would eventually work. Results kept getting worse, performances too. Results & performances did not match what the manager was consistently telling me. The fans started to tell me a different story. Brendan refused to comprehend the notion of changing his ways so adamant was he that he would be successful. The only thing that was changing rapidly was our league position. Was it hasty sacking him? (No) Did we avoid relegation with McDermott? (Yes)”
Different stage of the cycle though isn’t it?
1st season – philosophy and training
2nd season – pragmatism (building the team around Suarez) and training
3rd season – ???
He’s shown an ability to adapt, that’s what last season was all about.
Spot on – every word !
Just hope Brendan Rodgers reads it and takes some notice – and some action!
Pressure can be an awful thing.
I agree he put himself under it.
Seems like we’re all feeling it.
So what’s the answer?
Free flowing football has its bad points.
Lets try and be positive.
Always a chance of getting Chech in goal.
Passing wasn’t good yesterday.
See what happens next.
11th. Next game Crystal Palace, Sun 23 Nov. Stew and simmer.
I honestly believe it will pick up from here based purely on the belief that it can’t get any worse. I’m now ‘Officially Delusional’.
Anyway Gareth. Or ‘Gaz’! If that’s your real name. The scouts need fecking sacking! !
‘Gaz’? Nah.
I can see a scenario in which a committee, director of football vetoes a manager’s suggestion. That makes some sense, they are the budget holders after all. I can’t see the point in buying players the manager doesn’t want. He won’t play them. Why would he? We’re not Real Madrid.
There’s another narrative running through the first team selection and the players being let go that we’re not privy to, I think. Bit like the Beatles. On the surface you think Lennon & Paul McCartney wrote them but in reality they each had their own songs and were at war with each other. Think the transfer committee is pretty similar. I’d guess ego’s are playing a big part in things. I often mention it but 44 Months with a Bunch of Cowboys opened my eyes. Unbelievable what battles were going on behind the scenes then and are probably going on now that us fans have no idea about.
I’m ashamed of many of the comments above. It’s just like visiting the red cafe. Have faith in the man, thank God we’re in the champs league and we’re in with a shout of challenging for fourth place again this year. 12 months ago, yes 12 months ago, you wouldn’t have dreamt of having a genuine title challenge being in the champs league. He’ll get it right, but even if he doesn’t we’ve got to give him more of a chance than the backstabbers above are.
No-one’s really calling for his head are they? I think most of us want to see him get it right.
This.
Let’s just hope that Maribor can knock out Sporting Lisbon, meaning that they’ll be free to give up William Carvalho. (Or Chelsea can lose to Schalke, even better.)
Can does look promising, but I am honestly unsure what position he is really supposed to be playing. And we need a Mascherano-level player in front of our overexposed CBs. We’d lose those long diagonal balls, but it would also free up Coutinho and Henderson to start making some of those breathtaking through balls to Sturridge and Sterling (and even Balotelli).
Four points off a CL spot still doesn’t feel like a crisis to me, even if we are technically out of the top 10. A disappointment, because we could have been quite comfortable with everyone else misfiring, but not quite panic stations for me.
Considering Rodgers’ ability to set short-term targets to keep heads clear last season, particularly going into December when it still seemed that Sterling should be loaned out and Gerrard seemed like he literally couldn’t make it past the 60 minute mark (sound familiar?), I imagine that the manager is more becalmed than most would be comfortable imagining.
But if we are going to finally splash some cash, I can’t imagine a more useful avenue than on someone anchoring the middle of the park with some real class. It would have a knock-on effect all over the pitch. I’d love a Reus as much as the next Red, but it’s not where we need it most.
What an excellent piece of analysis which i would have loved to be on the table of W Henry.Sadly we are doomed with an under par team backed by a clueless manager.The ideal situation would be a new relentless gaffer waving a hard disciplinal team selection.Thus no more complacency with a past the era Gerrard,an oblivion of a Mario, a forgetful Johnson and an out of his mind Lovren.What everybody now knows is that Gerrard is not the used to be STEVIE G.Something which Rogers refuse to admit.Until when will he persist with him?
Since the manager joined, we have spent £213,000,000 on players.
http://www.lfchistory.net/Transfers/ByManager/25-1
The key question is how many top quality players have we bought, players who would be coveted by Champions League contenders?
Sturridge.
Couthino.
Of course, there’s a few more who may well force themselves into the bracket (Can? Moreno? Origi? Markovic) – but, as Wenger has proved, you can wait generations for these players to finally prove it.
It’s a shocking state of business that has left the defence, midfield and attack bereft of the quality. Pressure is piled on a team that doesn’t buy well.
The summer has underlined how our the Coutinho and Sturridge window is the exception that has hidden the cracks in the FSG business model.
Think the real message of all this is we need unity and need to stick together, the atmosphere was almost hodgson levels and its not that bad, we need to get last season out of our system group together and give a fuck u to the rest of the league and get 3pts at palace and give them two fingers for last yr
I wrote a 2,000 word response to this that just got swallowed by ghosts in the machine, so if I sound pissed off it’s not just that you’re mostly a bunch of short-memoried, over-demanding backstabbers.
We’re only in a crisis if you still thought before Saturday’s game that we are and should be genuine title-contenders. If you take the view that last season was – however magical – the clearest case yet of over-achieving since Salif Diao at the 2002 world cup, then we are no way in a crisis. If you believe repeat CL qualification and a good cup run will equal success this year – as I do – then our performances so far this season are a cause for concern, certainly, but a “crisis” would be what Borussia Dortmund are having (that Jurgen Klopp, eh? He’s fucking useless, isn’t he?).
Can was spent when he was subbed, although he will be a good player for us, I reckon. His game is suited to the EPL for sure, but he’s either not fit enough to do the 90mins or he needs time to adjust to EPL pace. Either way, Rodgers was right to sub him when he did. His game is all to do with getting about the pitch to disrupt the opposition play, to be a dominant physical force in the centre of the park. So when the tank is empty, he won’t be effective in other ways.
Coutinho was our MoM? Maybe before the second Chelsea goal a case can be made (although I don’t see it myself), but after? Coutinho turned around with his arm in air to appeal for offside instead of getting as close as possible to Azpilicueta. He then noticeably slows as he anticipates the ball going out, and is consequently completely unprepared for Azpilicueta’s knock inside that allows him to pull away. I like Coutinho and don’t want to get on his back, but he carries the can for that goal. I can only imagine the pelters Gerrard would be getting if that had been him Azpilicueta had waltzed by. But it wasn’t Gerrard, so there’s no need to dwell on this. Move along, people.
Meritocracy. Running a meritocracy does not mean that you chop and change your team for every game on the basis of how 1 to 11 played in the previous game. No other manager runs their show like that and I wouldn’t want a manager at Liverpool who did. The Madrid game was an exercise in damage limitation and, Kudos to Toure et al, they did bloody well. But that was never going to be the brief for yesterday. We may have failed miserably, but the plan was always going to be that we tried to take the game to Chelsea, to get the three points. Rodgers obviously can’t say any different, but no-one actually believes that was the objective on Tuesday. Different game, different opposition, different tactics and objectives. But even if the games had been similar, meritocracy does not mean making an assessment on the previous 90mins alone, especially in a season where change will happen by necessity because the manager’s ‘best 11’ can’t play every minute of 50-odd games. To be clear, I’m not saying that you can’t still make a case for Toure in for Lovren, for example, but there is a narrative developing on these threads that seems to imply Toure, Borini, Lallana, Manquillo, etc, should have been shoe-ins for Chelsea because Madrid didn’t stick 8 past us. It’s almost as if people have forgotten that some of these Madrid heroes started against Hull.
On some of the players we didn’t get in the summer…
Costa did not want to come to Liverpool last season precisely because he knew one more good season at Atletico, performing well in the Champions League, would guarantee a bid from a Chelsea/Bayern/Barca. It’s not Rodgers’ fault that Liverpool are not yet seen as CL stalwarts, that we can’t pay £250k a week and Liverpool is not a borough of London. We could have afforded either Falcao or Sanchez, but neither of these wanted to come, either. Unless we win the CL this season, it will, unfortunately, be the same story when Reus comes onto the market next year. No-one has courted him longer than we have, but at best he’ll look at us and see two consecutive qualifications for the CL. Arsenal have done it 15 times on the bounce. It’s only a couple of years ago that we were failing to persuade the likes of Dempsey and Siggurdson to come to Liverpool. We know how fucking great this club is, but don’t expect Europe’s elite to feel the same…not yet, at least.
I would be interested to know if there is another angle on the Remy thing, though. Was it really about medical problems? And I do think Rodgers should have tried for Bony. But before a ball was kicked this season, I thought his additions to the squad looked pretty good. I thought we were in good shape, and whilst the start has been disappointing I don’t see any reason yet to declare an irrecoverable clusterfuck. I don’t offer any guarantees that they’ll all (or even most) come good, either, but you don’t need to look too far from our own squad for evidence of players who started poorly and came good in the end.
The irony wasn’t lost on me this week that many of those demanding the return of Lucas for Chelsea (which I agreed with, btw) were in the vanguard of those consigning the likes of Lovren, Ballotelli and Markovic to the dustbin already. Short memories some of youse.
Top four’s what it’s all about. I think everybody gets that. That’s why there’s so much anxiety around the place – the fear that we won’t make it, and the consequences of not making it. It took us 5 years to get back last time. The Suarez argument doesn’t wash with me, Kenny had Suarez too. Brendan got a lot right last season.
I agree pauloffinland – superb point there lad!
Agreed. It’s only 14 months ago that Suares was threatening to never kick another ball for Liverpool. Rodgers made him train with the reserves until he came out of his sulk and the rest is history. I think this episode showed that Rodgers can manage and get the best out of superstars players, and also that he’s not afraid to make big calls…all accusations that have been levelled at him this season.
Oh, and there’s nothng “bold” about “abandoning philosophies”. In fact, quite the opposite.
First and foremost, I want our manager to be successful, but given none of us can foretell the future, I’d rather have a manger that had a defined philosophy that he didn’t discard at the first sight of trouble.
I like the philosophy. Just can’t tell what it is right now. Can you?
A lot will hinge on Sturridge’s return. Let’s see if we can kick on with a striker that suits our style of play.
He abandoned his philosophy last season. He promised to pass teams to sleep. “Death by football” 4-3-3. Best form of defence is keeping the ball. Not what we got but many were too caught up in winning so many matches and scoring (and conceding) so many goals to notice.
I stated before, I was confused with Rodgers last season as he wasn’t doing what he said would do. He changed. And I didn’t know whether it was a positive or a negative. I hadnt seen Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Ferguson, Benitez alt their philosophy in such a wholesale manner.
Now we can see a playing squad confused. We are playing without a philosophy. We lost our identity.
Im coming round to the idea changing what you believe will be successful so hugely in such a short time can’t be positive. It may be positive short term, but never long term. Yes you adapt to certain situations but not so much as become unrecognisable from the idea you initially set out. I also think once players cotton on to you that you’ll change so readily they begin to lose trust in you and wonder if you’re just a chancer with good PR.
I saw it as an inspired bit of adaptation to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal, i.e. what you would want out of a manager.
Is it what you want though?
Ive listed the most successful managers in modern football there. Add Capello and Klopp in there too. How come they’ve never changed their ideas on how to be successful? They all have an unwavering belief in teams playing a certain way in order to win. And they’ve won. A lot.
Brendan had such a philosophy and dumped it within a year and a bit of coming to LFC.
So comparing him to those listed above, I ask again, is that what you want for sustained long term success?
What exactly is Brendan Rodgers’ defined philosophy?
FSG’s business philosophy is quite clear to take a guess; buy young, don’t pay high wagee, sell for profit to sustain club, make club attractive for eventual sell.
What is the manager’s?
What is a football philosophy full stop?
For me Brendan Rogers likes to play passing football along the ground to feet. When he came he realised we had the players to play it a lot quicker than he had been doing at Swansea – who incidentally appear to be playing like we did last year!
This year for reasons I am not sure of, the high press and the pace of pass has dropped off and he appears to have reverted to a slower passing style.
So for me his core beliefs haven’t changed. All he did was change formation, the pace at which we play and where the press was to be applied. But his philosophy hasn’t changed – its still basically too feet over short distances. The rest is emphasis and team shape.
He did well last year because he was flexible and bold and all the players were bang on form for the majority of the season.To improve he has to have the balls to go back to what worked best for him and us.
To finish, why are the players getting away with this and the manager getting the majority of the stick?
Gerrard is and always has been a pretty terrible captain. He offers no leadership or intelligent instruction. Yes he’s achieved unbelievable highs and dragged the club to to an FA Cup on his own. And is an exceptionally gifted footballer.
I think it’s sad that he didn’t get the footballing education he might of got in Spain or Italy, or even if he were to come through the systems now where he’d of been nurtured and educated as a pure attacking talent. Does anyone think Zidane wouldn’t of been able to tackle and run around a lot if that’s all he was thought to do?
Great great footballer but not a natural leader.
I think Fenway should grow some balls too and only offer him a new contract relative to the performances.
My biggest concerns with Rodgers is 1. His transfer record, which hasn’t been great at the numerous clubs he’s been at, committee or not.
2. That I don’t think he can ever coach a defense to be able to defend properly, the continual set piece woes are clearly a coaching issue. And the complete clusterfuck we are made to watch at the back every game is enough to drive anyone insane
He’s had a lot of money to fix this yet it has never improved and arguably gotten worse (When compare to Kenny’s last season when we were actually very good at the back until Lucas’s injury)
How can you as a top club expect to finish consistently within the top 4 conceding 50-60 goals every season, unless you’re scoring near 100 goals?
Last year we scored loads of goals but could not defend. With Suarez gone and Sturridge injured we now have no goals and still can’t defend. A team that defends well but cannot score will struggle, but a team that scores goals always has a chance as we proved last year.
So why did we not sign 3 world class strikers in the summer? If we wanted to build on our position of last year with Luis sold then we needed two to replace him plus one for when Sturridge is injured.
Until we get Sturridge back we are short up front, if a team is short up front then it allows opposition teams to attack more, with less fear, putting more pressure on a poor defense.
When Keegan was replaced he was not replaced by a defender or midfielder, when Torres went, two forwards replaced him, one worked one did not, (which is how it goes). To pad out the squad was important but not the priority. The priority was to replace the goals and contribution of Suarez and that was never done. Without goals you do not win football matches.
FSG and Rogers at times come across as trying to be too clever, not every lump of coal can become a diamond and unless you are going to significantly improve a position if it isn’t that broke don’t try and fix it. Was there any need to replace Pepe and Agger? Buy a replacement goalie to put pressure on, but to bomb him out was an unnecessary distraction and Rogers seems to look for too many unnecessary battles. Agger could have been replaced next year, integrating two full backs was difficult enough, why buy another CB as well?
There was real progress last year and a sense of identity, we scored goals, stop us if you can, most could not. Our greatest strength last year has become our greatest weakness this year, because we have not replaced Suarez. We could have had a front three of Ballotelli, Falcao and Cavani with the Suarez money fed by Coutinho, Sterling and still with Sturridge to put into the mix. You would expect goals with those players, or penalties and free kicks around the box. Upfront we have Balotelli and Lambert and it is not enough but it was never enough.
Excellent article Gareth which encapsulates the thoughts of most LFC supporters. There is little doubt that Rodgers needs to manage Gerrard carefully to get the best out of him as he declines physically. Employing the model used by Chelsea with Frank Lampard is an option, however, Gerrard is the club captain so this would present a problem. Henderson having the armband for, say the first 65 minutes, then handing it over to Gerrard for the remaining time? Would Gerrard be ready to relinquish the captaincy for what we all feel would be for the good of the club?
On the form of Lovren, the French journalist Phillipe Auclair when taking part in a discussion on LFC’s form was not surprised and seemed to indicate that he was returning to the type of performance that typified his period at, I think, Lyon.
Auclair also rates Sakho very highly indeed.
Most who have seen Sakho for France/PSG do – yet here not so much. I agree he can look nervous but with what we’ve realised is going on around and behind him I think we can understand why.
Great piece Gareth. I want him to succeed too but it’s getting to the stage where he has to put up or shut up. If he doesn’t make the big calls he’s so fond of talking about managers making, rather than just talking about them, then he’ll sink under his own inaction – better to regret the things you did than the things you didn’t do wha?!
Good comment which I thoroughly agree with, especially the better to regret point.
A question – for me he did “Put up” last season. Like his team he isn’t having a good season this time.
Are managers ever allowed a little time to regress before moving forward or must they always be removed?