COLOUR me concerned. Everyone has their tipping point depending where on the scale of glass half-full-glass half-empty you are. That was mine. A fourth defeat in a row. Twelfth in the league. Four points from the bottom three. Has a team ever gone backwards so quickly?
Palace are not a good side. Their results this season and the league table before kick off was proof of that. Sadly, the same could be said of Liverpool but even so, surely we’d have too much for Neil Warnock’s side? We’re not great, no-one is claiming we’re great, but this could and should have been a place to look for a turning point. On the back of a break to stew on what had gone wrong, this was a game to show fight, to show spirit, to show that while, yes, we’re not great, that we’re not *that* bad. That – at the very least – we can match opponents for effort and determination and then, maybe, the supposed quality we have will shine through.
You couldn’t have asked for a better start. Movement from a striker at last. A clever ball from midfield at last. A goal from a striker at last. Nice one, Rickie Lambert. Sadly, it went downhill from there, for him and for Liverpool. Fast.
Unfortunately, it looks like we are that bad. And it’s the same issues played on repeat over and over. Steven Gerrard can’t play the screening role, yet he is continually picked there. It appears the manager believes him to be undroppable. Would he have made a better impact coming from the bench? Would his quality in the final third when legs are tired have told? Why wasn’t he hooked ahead of Joe Allen who was probably the Reds’ best performer? Why when HE made a mistake was he looking to blame others? There are no leaders in this side. There are plenty of mistakes though. And the skipper is providing his fair share.
As the season goes on Brendan Rodgers isn’t answering questions, he’s creating more.
14 – Only in one Premier League season (1992-93, 13 points) have Liverpool had fewer points after 12 games than they do this season. Slump.
— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) November 23, 2014
What is really concerning is that nothing appears to lift this Liverpool side. An unexpected last-minute winner against Swansea. A deflected goal to put the team ahead against Chelsea. A 90-second opener against a struggling side today.
All of those things would be scenarios you’d expect a side to take something from; for shoulders to lift, for confidence to return. Not this team. Steve Peters is apparently still at the club. He must be on overtime. Because this side doesn’t believe in itself one bit – it’s weak. Heads drop too easy, it’s bullied, it doesn’t battle, it doesn’t tackle. Everyone in the team is looking at each other to put the plug in as last season goes down the plughole.
It was all too easy that for Palace. And the situation Liverpool now find themselves in is boosting opponents. Most looked at today’s game and the five that follow and thought that it offered an opportunity: Crystal Palace (a), Ludogorets (a), Stoke City (h), Leicester City (a), Sunderland (h), Basel (h).
Everyone of those sides will fancy their chances now.
Look at how Palace approached the second half in comparison to Liverpool. They knew they could cause us problems – they knew they could get at Liverpool. They did, they won it and this is now a nailed-on crisis for the manager. Make no mistake, if he doesn’t turn it around – and quickly – a conversation about his future between Boston and Liverpool will begin. If it hasn’t done already.
Rodgers doesn’t know what his best team is. There are problems all over the pitch. The keeper had a shocker again and it’s negligent that there isn’t another option. Lovren doesn’t deserve a place in the side no matter how much he cost. Kolo Toure deserves a start. That’s where we are. Kolo Toure deserves a start.
At the start of last season – minus Suarez and with an injured Sturridge – Liverpool dug deep and ground out results. They defended well, battled, scrapped and got the rub of the green. That isn’t happening now. So put the players in there who can do that. Toure did it in that run. Lucas did it in that run. Whatever you think of them they can do no worse than what we’ve just watched. Both played well at Real Madrid. Maybe they could have repeated the feat at Selhurst Park.
Rodgers has to stop making the same mistakes over and over or it will cost him his job. And if he plans to polish today’s turd he’s going to need a lot of Mr Sheen.
If it doesn’t kill you it makes you stronger. Which is nice.
I see nothing but the truth in this piece. 4 defeats in a row is nearly impossible for a manager to recover from. Lose midweek and it may just be game over for Rodgers.
Amazing to be saying this after last season
It looks like all downhill from here, at least until the January window. Don’t see Sturridge’s return would do wonders for us. Never I imagined we would be struggling this badly, can’t think of any positives from this season so far.
Just said the exact same thing in the pub
“Look at Tottenham – you spend over £100-odd million, you’d expect to be challenging for the league”
Rodgers, April 2014.
Shocking. Like all fans, desperately wanted things to work for Rodgers, like I do for every Liverpool manager, but he looks completely out of his depth at the club. Suarez carried and inspired the side last season. Rodgers record in the transfer market is appalling. It’s inconceivable to believe a top class coach ala Mourinho or Guardiola would be at a club three seasons and be still to have coached them how to defend properly. Rodgers said after the Chelsea defeat last season that ‘Anyone can teach a team to just go out and defend’. Well, evidently they can’t. The manager must accept the responsibility. He’s at a leading club with every tool at his disposal. He’s been given ample funding, and for the vast majority of it completely wasted it. In fact, he’s replaced some good players with worse ones. Mignolet better than Reina? Is Lovren an improvement on Agger? Agger sold for £3 odd million and Lovren brought in for £20M. It’s laughable. And the blame lies only in one place. At the managers door. I’ve been following the club over 30 years now, and I have to say I’ve never been as dis-spirited. The next man in can’t be a gamble. The single most important signing at a club is the manager. All stops must be pulled out to get in someone who has one objective. To win the league. We’ve spent as much as anyone over the past decade or so. And it’s not simply economics, we’ve enough tools, facilities, etc to be performing far, far better, and with far more yearly consistency that what we’re showing now.
Completely agree, especially the part about Agger, big mistake letting him go.
There’s a major problem somewhere maybe off the pitch, there is no reaction from the players in any circumstance happy sad nothing. We need to spend and I doubt if Rodgers will be trusted. We are coming close to writing the season off which is definitely not good.
This was a disgrace. I can accept a loss, but not an utter lack of desire and commitment! This was absolutely horrid, how can a manager keep getting his tactics wrong? He brought in all of these players and raved about them all, he is full of sh1t, I am tired of listening to his blarney. Cut our losses now, bring in Klopp or Kenny until the end of the season, we can’t get any worse, oh wait I said that after out last 3 games! This clown is a fraud, mid table manager at best, it’s clear he has lost the respect of his players as well as all of us! YNWA!
Not one of the players bought in the summer have really improved us, Christ Southampton must be doubled over laughing at us. Wasn’t really a Roger’s fan when he came in and he really hasn’t done anything to change my mind. When he came in and had us passing around at the back I hated it and what happened last season masked major flaws in our defending which are being laid bare now. Do Chelsea mess around at the back Real Madrid or any other top team who have infinitely better player than us so why oh why does he persist? Learn fast Brendan or adiós it will be
All true.
An ageing captain who doesnt get substituted not to mind dropped. Under-performing players starting each week reagardless. Players that no longer press. Defenders who cant defend. Attackers who cant attack. Buying poor quality players for hugely inflated price tags. Selling quality players for deflated price tags.
Its starting to sound like we have a manager that cant manage. I’m desperate for Rodgers to do well. I’d just wish he would revert back to how we played last season before its too late and he gets the sack.
Where to start with the problems with this team? I think the elephant in the room is unfortunately Stevie G. Without a real consistent outlet ball he is rendered redundant and actually slows play down by dropping into the back four and leaving us one less option in the middle. BR is showing his inexperience as a manager and is possibly too close to his senior,ayers and now in a position where cant drop them.
I AGREE WITH ALL SAID HERE- NEVER SEEN SUCH POOR MORALE AND NO FIGHTING SPIRIT-WHERE’S THE “DEFEND FROM THE TOP” ? DOES LOOK LIKE PLAYERS HAVE LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN TRAINING TACTICS, PROGRAM, WHATEVER- RODGERS , TO THE FRUSTRATION OF ALL FANS, SEEM TO PERSIST IN LINEUP WHICH DOT WORK. IF SOME PEOPLE DONT LEAVE, THE CLUB WILL BE LEFT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TABLE.
Well, I’ve just had a phone call from North London from my brother. He’s waiting for the train back north after watching the match.
As he said to me, ‘there’s a day I can never get back’ . We chatted about the match and agreed on pretty much everything ; no pressing, no one taking responsibility, no pace on the break and worst of all, no obvious solution to the problem. A mid table finish on that form. How I’d that happen.
Get in there while you can:
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post
I think I prefer the over positive stuff!
Although I’m not screaming for Rodgers and his coaching team to go you do have to wonder if he/they have the ability to change things around, because no matter what the starting 11 is every week, however long a break there’s been between games to reflect/work on things,the same problems remain that are obvious to the vast majority of fans, pundits, etc but Rodgers seems oblivious to them. The summer transfer window is firmly at the core of the problems, with the majority of players unsuitable for the style of play and unable to improve us in areas where we were weak last season (defence), the view of most which I agree with is whilst it appears the concentration was on improving the squad, the starting 11 has be severely weakened. That issue lies with Rodgers and/or whoever identifies and signs off on transfers.
1. The keeper: no signing to compete with or dislodge Mingolet, so he and his mistakes are here to stay for a few months yet at least.
2. The back 4: Johnson severley out of form, yet played at LB ahead of Moreno today (strange). Skertel lucky not to be sent off and no one seems to have told him to stop pulling players to the floor instead of competing for the ball. Lovren positionly all over the place. Tactically what I don’t get is this crazy high line we play, Palace exploited that all day, everyone Liverpool attack that broke down ended with a Palace chance at the other end, due to the defence being pushed up to the half way line. The set up at corners is terrible too, two opposition players stand on Mingolet, no LFC players in sight, no one on the goal line, and no outlet, everyone brought back into the box, and all mismatched in marking opposition players. How can’t the coaching staff see that? It’s the same every week!
Midfield – people talk about Gerrard, but he is being payed in the complete wrong position, at the start if the second half today, they switched him and Allen and he was started to influence the game further up the field. Allen goes off, Can on and for some reason Gerrard steps back one and we get steadily worse.
Going forward: two strikers signed that do not suit the style of play that we had last year, Lambert worked hard to today but with a static front man and little movement off him (Sterling looks shot and Borini is nowhere near a top level player) left Courtinho and Lallana in part trying to create things on their own.
I was trying to think of a team that have had this many problems all over the pitch and I can’t think of one. Rodgers seems to have ran out of ideas and I dread to think where we will be come New. Years day. I hope I’m wrong!
When i looked at the team line up today i knew straight away that we were not going to win and would probably lose as Rodgers yet again is not making any changes to the lineup to rectify the issues our team clearly has. He made one change which should have been done weeks ago which was Lambert in for Balotelli but he was only forced to do that because of Balotelli being injured not because Rodgers wanted to make changes. I’m sick and tired of Rodgers picking the same players week in week out and getting the same obvious results. I have been extremely patient in not calling for the managers head but enough is enough. I would give him another 3 games to give him a last chance to make changes the team so desperately needs and if he stubbornly picks the same team in the next 3 games then our shocking form will continue and unfortunately FSG will have to get rid of him. It’s unbelievable that it has come to this after the achievement of last season but i’m afraid Rodgers has been badly found out and unless he goes then we can forget Europa League next season let alone Champions League. If we could see that Rodgers was at least trying to change things by changing the line up and not keep picking the same players and doing the same things which clearly aren’t working then i would give him till the end of the season but this is just getting ridiculous now. I would bring Kenny in until the end of the season to at least halt this depressing slide. This is now the worst start to a season for 21 years! That’s worse than under Hodgson which is frankly quite unbelievable and is some achievement! If this continues and it doesn’t look like anything is going to change any time soon then we will be in the relegation zone. We are now only 4 points away from relegation zone and have now lost 4 games in a row. When are people going to wake up to reality and see that this is only going one way unless something is radically changed.
Unfortunately I think he’s done. We won’t win against lIsoptera as they are no mugs and we are awful.
Rogers doesn’t have the bottle to phase sg out and this is as everyone says an elephant in the room.
He has no plan b and every decent manager needs to evolve and grow but he hasn’t, and he’s been found out. It’s November and he has not changed the system , a system that doesn’t work.
He’s replaces Martin Kelly and Andre wisdom with manqulo, why?
He bought llanna and markovic when we have countinhou and sterling there, 4 players playing in the same position!!
He buys balotelli as his ego believed that he and not Jose or Mancini can change him.
And lovren for agger , ok agger was declining but he is so much better than lovren.
It is falling apart at the seams and there is no end in sight. We have no decent strikers until January, a shambolic defense and no creativity and a manager who doesn’t know his best team.
I really wanted him to succeed but alas the job is too big for him and he is not nearly as good as his hype.
For the record, here’s the team I would have liked to see today:
Mignolet
Manquillo – Skrtel – Toure – Moreno
Lucas – Lallana – Can
Sterling
Lambert – Borini
And then Coutinho, Gerrard and Markovic as attacking impact subs as and when necessary…
Why do we insist on playing such a slow tempo in the front of opposition defences ?it seems to be so easy to defend against.
While watching the game it struck me how little of a threat we actually pose. Everything is so weak.
The goal aside, theres seems to be no movement when we are in possession, so when our creative players like coutinho are on the ball there’s no option in front of him!
We’re not even challenging aireal balls in the middle of the pitch! How easy and predictable was in for palace to get in behind?
Gotta say well played to palace the
Today was the day.
The day we were looking forward to. The day we needed desperately. The day we got things back on track. The day we put in some sort of a performance. The day we went on some sort of run. The day we started to be ourselves again. The day we started to claw things back against the 19th best side in the league.
None of that happened. I’ll tell you what though.
Today was the day.
I am now of the opinion Brendan Rodgers is not the manager we need him to be now or in the future. I have criticised him all season but even after the underwhelming transfers, abysmal team selections and vile, disgusting tactics which didn’t change regardless of evidence, I refrained from saying it.
I knew we weren’t going to win 6 in a row. From this run of games I thought 3 wins and 3 draws is what we were looking at, with one of those draws coming today. I realised that being a Liverpool fan, looking at the names of the next 6 opponents and not expecting better than 3 wins and 3 draws, something was badly wrong. And that something was the manager. But I refrained from saying it.
Not any longer.
We need a new manager.
There. It’s done. It’s been said and it cannot be unsaid. We wait til seasons end and sack him. We give him no money in January. We go after Simeone, Klopp or Rafa. Managers who know what it takes to overcome odds, regularly qualify for the Champions League, know what to do when they get there, and win some trophies.
At this stage last season, the incredibly maligned (by us, rightly) David Moyes was 7 points better off. He was qualifying from his Champions League group. And he was in the semi final of the League Cup. Think on that if you believe the above knee jerk. This mess we find ourselves in is now, in my opinion, irreversible. Rodgers has had time to reassess. The international break seen to that. He could clear his head. He could see what the rest of us have seen.
That Gerrard is finished. That he offers incredibly little to this team from the start. That his name being on the team sheet negatively affects our whole shape. That his playing means others have to worry about him as well as themselves. That his selection means other midfielders don’t want to go beyond the ball but at the same time we are still ludicrously open to the counter attack. That he is as bad a captain and leader you could never hope to see. That he is so bad in the defensive midfield role he almost becomes a 12th man for the opposition, for sure as fuck we don’t have 11 on the pitch when he plays.
That Lovren has turned into the worst centre back in the entire league. That his form doesn’t merit him a game for the Renford Rejects, let along Liverpool Football Club. That his head is scrambled. That he needs babysitting as bad as Gerrard does. That he constantly gives up chances to the opposition when the opposition doesnt do anything special. That his presence at our club is a mistake, plain and simple.
That Skrtel is a common denominator. That he always wants to drop deeper. That he is a defender for a defensive team. That he is currently better suited to being a judoka than a footballer, and that officials are rightly targeting him. That he constantly gives away free kicks in dangerous positions.
That Glen Johnson is Glen fucking Johnson and has been for 18 fucking months. That he doesn’t have the skill or athletic ability to play for any side hoping to finish top 4. That worst of all, he doesn’t even have the desire to play for any side hoping to finish top 4.
That Sterling isn’t a striker. That he isn’t a winger. That he is a number 10. That he is now at an age where he must play in the same position most weeks so he can learn and develop to become what his talent and will determines he should be come.
That 4-2-3-1 doesn’t fucking work. That we need two strikers on the pitch. That he is the only one to blame for having Borini and Lambert at the club.
Rodgers would take a fortnight and work all this out, right? No? Most of it out? Some of it out? I mean, he can definitely see some of it, right? The Gerrard thing? He can see that. He’ll have known that we know up til now he has been a yellow belly, but are now giving him our permission to drop Steven. That’s what he’s been waiting for, isn’t it? No? He has seen where his constant selection of Lovren has got us, hasn’t he? He’ll now realise the season is on the line and swallow his pride, won’t he? He’ll bring in Toure or Sakho for sure, no?
No.
Just like against Chelsea, I knew the team sheet would tell all. Just like against Chelsea, I was repulsed. Just like against Chelsea we took an early lead. Just like against Chelsea we lost having played appallingly.
Mignolet
Manquillo Toure Sakho Moreno
Can Lucas Henderson
Sterling Lallana
Balotelli
That’s the team I wanted today. Fair enough Sakho and Balotelli were injured. So replace with Skrtel and Borini. But to play Lovren in place of Toure, Johnson in place of Moreno, Lambert in place of Borini and worst of all, not to play Can, is unforgivable. Worse was to come though. The performance of Gerrard today went beyond sad. It genuinely is heart breaking to see any club legend reduced to showings like he’s put in this season, let alone our club legend. But when Rodgers took off Allen and left his land lord on, that was it for me. “It” in this instance being “apoplectic.” (By the way, any manager having any of their players as land lord is a ridiculous conflict of interest made all the more farcical given the money and choice Rodgers had. It seems Rodgers decisions off the field are just as questionable as the ones on it.) We had something of a diamond with Sterling up top with Lambert. But when Rodgers changed things and went back to his 4-2-3-1 and soon after we went from 1-1 to 3-1 down, assisted of course by mistakes by Lovren and then Skrtel, then that was really it for me. “It” in this instance being “feeling physically ill.”
After the match (long after the match) Rodgers says he takes full responsibility. It’s not something he has said before but let’s be real: he is only saying it because anything else would be more shameful than his efforts this season. He claimed the free kick for Palace’s third goal wasn’t a free kick. As blind as Wenger without even half his ability. He also claimed he always “felt comfortable in the game” except maybe from counter attacks – see Steven Gerrard. Feeling comfortable against a bad team should mean 3-0 up after an hour in normal circumstances, not 1-1 in a game against a bad team in which you are second best but neither you nor your opponents look like getting a winner.
I posted the following last month:
“This is what Reading’s chairman stated after he sacked Rodgers 5 years ago:
“I understand he didn’t have much time but we got on a slippery slope and it just got worse. Signings didn’t settle, Brendan was adamant his style of play would eventually work. Results kept getting worse, performances too. Results & performances did not match what the manager was consistently telling me. The fans started to tell me a different story. Brendan refused to comprehend the notion of changing his ways so adamant was he that he would be successful. The only thing that was changing rapidly was our league position. Was it hasty sacking him? (No) Did we avoid relegation with McDermott? (Yes)””
I worried history was repeating itself. Im not worried now. Not after today. After today I am sure.
Today was the day.
Hard to disagree with any of that Chris. Sadly.
It’s the fucking stubbornness that’s getting to me. As for his moving into Gerrard’s house: that’s beyond a joke. Too pally by far, even if it has more to do with the club than the player and manager.
We are on a slippery slope and I don’t think there is any stopping it. I am genuinely worried about relegation. We have just been absolutely dire this season, Rodgers tactics, stubbornness and sickening catastrophe in the transfer market, have seen us degenerate into a bottom half of the table club – we are fucking shit.
He needs to resign or get sacked in the morning, not the end of the season. the sentiments of that Reading chairman are spot on and I’ve known this about him since he came in. Last seasons fluke (and Suarez) covered up his tactical and defensive fucking incompetence, and I was saying that after every game. Seriously, as much as I was excited by our football, I was still pulling my hair out most games (50 goals conceded last season!!!!!). If Suarez was here now we would have won that 4-3 today probably, and everyone saying what a fucking genius Rodgers is, ignoring how crap a manager he actually is.
No, I wouldn’t give him to the end of the season – he goes now… Please FSG. We need someone else to lift the club. Pulis at least would keep us out the bottom 3 till end of season ( that’s where I think we’ve got to!!!)
Still, at least he’s looking glum and not smiling so I don’t have to see those fake gnashers of his gleaming at me. .. As fake as his top club managerial skills
Today was the day..?
Today was the day you decided that the manger has to go – but not just yet. Today was the day you decided we should sack him at the end of the season – after giving him no cash in January.
Today was the day you decided to bring up, once again apparently, some comments made by the Reading chairman a few years back to help promote a long rambling story entitled ‘today was the day’.
Today was the day you decided the answer was to sack the manger at the end of the season, after no cash in January (even though today was the day you decided the manager had to go) and replace him with a manger who can defy the odds..? The last time we defied the odds..when was that..? Do you remember..? Is there an actual plan from today or is it just to replace him with one of those three mentioned and then we staff again – until they don’t win the league and then there’s another “today was the day”.
Maybe today was the day you should have just written “I can’t be arsed with Brendan and don’t really like the fella instead of “today was the day”.
Today was Sunday and we lost a game of footie. There’s loads of days left this season, maybe some glorious days left this season but if not, if it all goes pear shaped I hope to fucking Christ I’m stood amongs lads who support the man in charge when he needs it most. Just like when Rafa needed it most and some of our support fucked him off.
Hopefully those who have had a “today was the day” day like you, will stay under a rock until the end of the season – because you’ve effectively written it off anyway and I can’t be areas with any of you.
^^^This.
Brownie
12 November 2014 at 2:04 am
…just as I suspect responding to you is bad for (my health). So I’ll make this the last time I address you directly. This selfless act on my part will serve the dual purpose of ensuring I live a few years longers, whilst saving other readers the tedium of watching you and me go back and forth again and again and again…
—
Addressing me indirectly I see. I wonder how good that can be for your health Brownie. Be careful, soon you’ll be saying that you want a bullet planted between my eyes again.
Wonder why you’re so quiet on Rodgers’ and our performances over the last 4 weeks. Couldn’t be anything to do with the fact they’ve made a cunt of you, is it?
Let me guess. You’re what? 14?
“Today was the day..?”
Yes, it was.
“Today was the day you decided that the manger has to go – but not just yet. Today was the day you decided we should sack him at the end of the season – after giving him no cash in January.”
Yes. You read correctly, congratulations. Why are you just repeating what I said in the above comment? Why not articulate your views instead of aping them in a not very clever manner? Perhaps it is beyond your capability?
“Today was the day you decided to bring up, once again apparently, some comments made by the Reading chairman a few years back to help promote a long rambling story entitled ‘today was the day’.”
Apparently? No apparently about it. As you are too lazy to do a bit of research or declined to do so just so you can use the word “apparently” in your retort, so you could throw in to doubt a claim I’ve made, here, have a look. http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2014/11/rodgers-piled-pressure/ It’s there lad. No apparently. And in case you haven’t noticed, as every passing week goes by those comments become more and more relevant. But it looks though you’re just too slow to realise it. And the above “long rambling story” wasn’t entitled anything. You know the difference between a first sentence and a title I hope? And it never fails to amuse me how the idiotic, unimaginative and completely unoriginal morons always label an opinion delivered in more than 3 sentences a ‘ramble.’
“Today was the day you decided the answer was to sack the manger at the end of the season, after no cash in January (even though today was the day you decided the manager had to go) and replace him with a manger who can defy the odds..?”
You accuse me of rambling and within sentences of each other you bring up my no cash in January opinion twice? Ha. Suits you. And again, you are just repeating my opinion without giving me yours or telling me why I am so badly wrong. Rather sad and pathetic but to each his own.
“The last time we defied the odds..when was that..? Do you remember..? Is there an actual plan from today or is it just to replace him with one of those three mentioned and then we staff again – until they don’t win the league and then there’s another “today was the day”.”
We defied the odds last season, after a million and one things went our way. All our rivals were in transition. Utd were a joke. Not as bad as us this season, but a joke nonetheless. We had Suarez. The manager gave up his philosophy and tried a number of formations unsuited to his beliefs. He then stumbled on a 4-2-2 diamond that saw us come 2nd. Before that we defied the odds time and again under Benitez, who is at least three times the boss the current Liverpool manager is. Compare their achievements please. He knew not only how to qualify for the champions league, but knew what to do when he got there. And you ask is there a plan? Emmm, perhaps I overestimated your reading comprehension. I gave what my plan would be. The one you repeated a number of times. You know, the one about giving the manager til May, no money in January, sacking him and replacing him with a proven manager. Now you may disagree with that plan (it’s hard to tell given your total inability to articulate well in any sense) but that is still a plan. Yet you ask “is there a plan.” Again, very amusing. And no, I don’t expect to win the league. Or that we should the manager if we don’t win the league. What I expect is a manager who learns from his mistakes. A manager with balls. A manager with some tactical acumen. A manager who can sort a defence out if given over 2 years. You know, the basics.
“Maybe today was the day you should have just written “I can’t be arsed with Brendan and don’t really like the fella instead of “today was the day”.”
I’ll express my opinion in any manner of my choosing. But thanks for reading.
“Today was Sunday and we lost a game of footie.”
Today was Sunday and we lost 4 in a row, dropped to 12th in the league with a goal difference of -12 having played a quarter of a season. Maybe you can’t link together one game to the next?
“There’s loads of days left this season, maybe some glorious days left this season but if not, if it all goes pear shaped I hope to fucking Christ I’m stood amongs lads who support the man in charge when he needs it most.”
I don’t, have never and will never presume to speak for other LFC fans. I only speak for myself. But I support Liverpool Football Club. Not the brand of Brendan Rodgers. Did you use the same line when fans were calling for Hodgson’s head? Of course you did son, of course you did.
“Hopefully those who have had a “today was the day” day like you, will stay under a rock until the end of the season – because you’ve effectively written it off anyway and I can’t be areas with any of you.”
You can’t be “areas” with any of us but you took the time to reply anyway. Sweet. No. I won’t stay under a rock. I’ve never been one to hide under a rock. I’ll speak my mind and tell difficult truths. And if I’m wrong it’ll be pointed out time and again. I’m ok with that. I’m not some sort of moronic eunuch who will lambast other people’s opinions without giving my own. That’s what a coward does. That’s what you’ve done. I’ve been giving many of these opinions for months, but the fans like you and Brownie didn’t want to hear them. Clearly, you still don’t. But just as time has proven me correct, so it will continue to. I don’t expect you to ever admit it. Those of your ilk never do. Brownie, for instance, doesn’t believe Reading were correct to sack Rodgers. Laughable stuff. But whether you admit it or not, you’ll know I’ve been right. And that’ll do me.
*Goal difference of -3
It just feels like -12.
Beautifully put.
rafa time?
I’ve wrote something that length and failed to mention two things.
One, the selection of Coutinho for a match away from home against a Neil Warnock team already fighting for their lives. Fucking moronic. As I said, the non selection of Can was/is pathetic.
And two, the manager’s body language. I’ve noticed it before. When we are ahead or playing well, he’s constantly on the touchline. He’s doing hand motions. He’s enthusiastically chewing gum and showing his new lovely white teeth. He wants to be noticed. And not just by his players. But when we’re behind or things aren’t going well, where is he? On his arse. On the bench. Beside his yes men. Hiding. Like his players.
That is all.
It’s because HE bought him, and recognised as one of only two of his transfers that have actually done anything. Rodgers is all about ego; he got the hump with Agger, Reina so flogged them for fuck all… Two legends of the Club, and replaced them with piss poor alternatives (mignomonkeybrainlet, Lovren). He plays them because he wants to have his identity all over the pitch, but he had no idea how yo spit a player
He has ruined this Club, we do not have a single world class player at the club anymore thanks to him. He’s got rid of all of them! I can’t see us recovering for a good while. I’m telling you, he’ll probably try and swap Sterling for Gayle in January because he had a good game against us today
*to spot
Agree with Chris, body language says a lot. BR looks a different man when the chips are down.
Warnock rants, raves and moans with officials so much that eventually its going to influence them. So many times this season I’ve seen us not get free kicks for challenges that could be called either way. It doesn’t have to BR, but someone on the bench has to make themselves heard. Would the penalty denial and free kick decision have been given if we had been in the ear of the official more?
As well as Suarez skill he was constantly on at the ref. We are just all round not vocal enough. The result is we are getting bullied.
BR has said that if plan A doesn’t work change plan A. Other teams have figured out exactly what to do with our plan A since the Chelsea game last year. They concede the flanks up to their final third and narrow the middle screening their centre backs. Then as we push forward, FB”s included, they simply play straight through a slowing Gerrard. For both their first 2 goals you know Lucas tracks the run. So plan A keeps failing, well after a few weeks and an international break I think I’d be looking for something else in the dossier.
The lack of leadership is a serious concern. This to me was the game to have Toure back in. Whatever faults he has, a lack of leadership is not one of them. He is genuinely upset at conceding goals, can the same be said of Skertl and Lovren?
I was concerned we were signing too many in the summer. We finished last not just because of great attacking but also grinding out a few early 1-0’s. Key to that was Lucas and Toure. BR recognised the need go do it then, why does he refuse to acknowledge that without great attackers available it the approach that is needed right now?
There are too many questions. Lets hope the solutions are not too long in coming
Yes, I think the same can be said about Skrtel and Lovren. They are no doubt genuinely upset at conceding goals, the same as Toure. The difference being that when Toure concedes a goal he keeps his head up, talks up his fellow defenders, and does everything he can to make sure it doesn’t happen again. When Skrtel and Lovren concede, their heads drop and they panic.
Our best defensive performance was the 1-0 wondergoal loss to Madrid, with Toure in the team. And our best overall team performance was the 1-0 wondergoal loss to Madrid, without Gerrard in the team.
I’m not for one second saying the Lovren / Skrtel partnership is the best available, but Toure is at best only as good as them. Have you completely forgotten how he reacted last season to the goal he gave away against West Brom or the own goal at Fulham. Even this year he nearly had a melt down after conceding the penalty against Middlesbrough.
I agree things definitely need to change in defense – I don’t think Mignolet and the two centre backs have any confidence in each other, but if that change is Toure it’s a bit far fetched to think he will put in performances like the one in Madrid on a consistent basis.
Pretty bad today, but let’s look on the bright side, it wasn’t as bad as Newcastle. Joking apart, for me the Madrid game was when I lost all confidence in Rodgers. I thought his team did him proud, not that it won or played great football. It actually went out against all the odds and fought, fought hard and left the pitch fit to wear the shirt. So how did he reward those players? They were dropped and the same losers returned and have carried on the debacle ever since. That was it for me, he lost all integrity and leadership. You never know he might perform a miracle between now and May, but for me the kick in the teeth Lucas and Toure got was indefensible.
Spot on mate. It wasn’t the team the Madrid selection, but the Chelsea one that pissed me off. Lost a lot of respect for him that day.
Rodgers is on the thinnest of ice now. But I believe that if he gets the team to finish the year on the front foot then he may be okay. It makes me nervous to think about what this season could turn out to be if he is sacked midseason. Especially with the amount of new players struggling to bed in who would basically have to start from scratch with a new manager in January. If anything, I don’t think its the results that will be the cause of BR losing his job, it’ll be his lack of adjustment making.
Some shocking comments above.
Regarding the shite being written here regarding bad managerial form; one name – Alan Pardew.
I’d love to know how many ‘supporters’ bleating here also bang on about how shocking it is that managers these days aren’t given an opportunity or time to form a team in their own image due to pressure to win all the time. Hypocrites.
Chances are we won’t make top 4. This is bad news. It might seem a bit early to be looking forward to next season but I’m resigned to doing so. I still reckon Rodgers will come good, this period may well be the making of him. Give the bloke time.
He’s had two and a half years……
Rodgers said judge him on results. He said in his second season he wanted to qualify for the champions league and in his 3rd season a title challenge. His own words.
But it’s not just the results, is it? It’s the manner of the performances. It’s the same mistakes in team selection and tactics, game in and game out.
It’s Rodgers’ stubbornness and complete failure of leadership. Time? Time enough to come 10th maybe? Fair enough. I’ll give time til May. I’ll also give him time to pack his bags in June as well.
There is more chance of Rodgers substituting Gerrard than our making top four as things are, but I’m not calling for his head. I’m far from happy with how things are, I haven’t fucking watched Match of the Day since Spurs away, I can’t face it, even the two times we actually won.
I’m not even sure Rodgers can turn this around but I think he deserves the chance, I reckon the next 4-6 weeks will determine whether he stays or not, today might just have been rock bottom for him, maybe the wake he needs.
My mate asked me before the game what I thought the score would be. I thought about it but then all I could say was ‘I’ve absolutely no idea’. That was because although I expected us to win I couldn’t see it happening. I’ve completely lost faith in us knowing how to win a match. Not long into the match it became apparent the players felt pretty similar. Its not like they tried and gave everything but somehow lost – they simply didn’t deserve anything.
I think in Rodgers first season he started disastrously but then the team steadily improved month on month. In the first half of last season there were some good signs despite the odd horror show. Then obviously, the second half of last season felt like all those little positives we’d been seeing had all come together. It felt like every aspect of the club was in good hands. I say that mainly to the ‘I’ve been saying from day one, crowd’. Rodgers started the season as a very bright young manager. Earlier this season we hadn’t been doing well but you could see there were mitigating factors – new players, no strikers etc. I still don’t think it was justified to say ‘he’s clueless, he’s never won anything, he’s talks garbage etc, etc, etc. The last 4 games have cast things in a new light though. I was saying a few weeks ago about when a manager falls off his pedestal it’s hard to regain respect. About how when you hear them speak you immediately take a negative view of his words. Well, I got another sensation today when watching the match. One that I remember in the final weeks of Houllier, Rafa, Hodgson and Kenny. It’s that moment when the camera pans to the manager and rather than see a man whose calm and plotting in his head how this can be over turned, you see a man who’s bereft of idea’s and whose lost confidence in his own ability. It feels like he has a resignation that he can’t turn our problems around. Then in the after match interview a change in tactics from Rodgers. No positive spin about how it’s all part of the master plan. He actually admitted he was in trouble. It must be bad! I don’t want to speculate on the future but today is a seminal moment for Rodgers. The analogy I like to use in this scenario is – You’re with a girl and things are ok. You meet someone else who really turns your head. You stay with your girlfriend for a while but the relationship is only going one way. Unfortunately, the tipping point has been reached and you can never see them as ‘the one’ again. The only thing left to negotiate is the end game.
I’m not saying for one minute that the future looks bleak here. I’m saying, in historic cases you can look back and pin point the seminal moments of a career. As I said above, every aspect of the club was going well in the summer. Now, the manager looks clueless, it looks like the strategy of the owners is both failing and wrong. The players are all average at best and the transfer committee is under huge scrutiny. It’d be fantastic if this all turns around and everyone truly respects one another again and has full confidence in the ability of each colleague at the club but …………
Last night when I saw Utd’s opener I thought I’d never seen a goal more resemble a goal against us. Arsenal’s defending was text book Liverpool. The goals today were awful yet again. The first goal initially came from a ridiculous error. Skrtel had just won the ball and should have run out of defence with it but inexplicably Lovren decided it was his so Skrtel hesitated, then Lovren hesitated and then Lovren panicked and launched it. It came straight back and they scored. That a goalkeeper can’t kick a ball and keep it in play is beyond words. I’d be happy to never see him again but then not only do we no back up keeper but the one we make do with is clearly not that passionate about LFC. Let’s just say, I wasn’t laughing and joking when we went behind today. Skrtel has got away with a lot over the last year but the biggest thing he’s got away with is avoiding the level of scrutiny some of the others are getting. He’s a liability too. Simply not good enough. We gifted them 3 goals today.
We’ve blamed the lack of strikers for our earlier form but it’s equally apparent that the team has no spine. Mignolet, Skrtel, Gerrard and Mario / Lambert / Borini are all appearing weak. It’s been clear for a while but Rodgers refuses to change anything. I’d much rather go down fighting. This malaise, lack of fight, lack of passion and lack of spirit is the catalyst for the shift of opinion over the last few weeks. Whatever happens, the main protagonists will have themselves to blame.
“He said in his second season he wanted to qualify for the champions league and in his 3rd season a title challenge. His own words.”
And we came a fraction off winning the title last season so he MUST be an idiot and a liar right?! Have a word with yourself mate, you’re parlant through your derrière.
(a) You’re ignoring my point about the manner of the defeats, not just the defeats themselves.
(b) How is his third season title challenge looking in your opinion? Remember, he asked us to judge him on continued progression. These are his words. Im only using his words to judge him in this instance, and that’s what he requested.
Eh he painted the training ground walls green! Give the guy some credit!
He doesn’t pick players on form. There is, therefore, no incentive for any player to try hard, either those in or those out.
The treatment of those that played in Madrid (since that game) is shocking.
Can or Lucas and Toure should be starting.
Balotelli would have played today were he fit, that’s for sure. Nothing tactical about Lambert’s selection today.
Brendan has turned us into a sh*t Arsenal, which was always my fear. We’re spineless.
So Brendan (or is it Suarez) led us to 2nd last season, big deal! Spurs also won the double in ’61 and ’71, are they a football powerhouse? Football success is not about what happened in the past, its about now and tomorrow. Ancelotti was fired mid-season despite leading Chelsea to the double the previous season, can someone honestly say that was a stupid decision.
There is no doubt Brendan has run out of ideas, if he ever had any. Sacking him in November is neither here nor there, fact is he will still get sacked in May when we finish 11th. At least doing it now gives who ever will take his place a chance to turn things around, coz he wont.
Yes, sacking Ancelotti was definitely a stupid decision. Doesn’t really change our position but that is very bad analogy.
Agree with Tom, sacking Ancelotti is never going to be a good decision. Sacking Roy mid season was. That’s your analogy right there. Not that I believe we should do that.
The Hodge analogy isn’t perfect either because he was in his first year coming in to a demoralised club nearly put in administration. Now there was a man who wasn’t given any time. It puts into focus people pleading to give Rodgers more time.
Hodgson won 7 from 20, had 25 points and and we were 12th, 4 points above relegation places. Hmm. Typing that last bit is eerily familiar. His transfers were also shit and he never had 2 and a half years to get things right.
It was still right to sack him though.
The idea that it is never right to sack a manager after a short period of time is bananas. The idea you shouldn’t sack a manager a few months into the season is also bananas, especially if he’s been at the club years before.
No analogy is perfect.
Agree, and it is better than the Ancelotti one.
My point is even though the Hodgson analogy isn’t perfect due to the fact he had to put up with things Rodgers didnt and had a lot less time than Rodgers, it was still right to sack him. This also puts into perspective people always preaching “give the manager time, give him more time”
Not trying to deflect blame away from Rodgers, he is more than deserving but the players have to carry the brunt of it today. Spineless displays from all, who are the leaders on the pitch? The captain appears to still be nursing a broken heart from last season. The rest of them show no heart or pride . They’re going through the motions of being footballers but without the desire it’s pointless. Rodgers may have lost the changing room and historically that doesn’t bode well. The problem appears to me deeper than tactics or personnel and that’s a big worry. Long way back for this mob, not sure they’re gonna make it. Fucking hate this.
He needs to sort out Gerrard – either drop Lovren and move him back into centre-half, with Lucas restored next to Allen or Can; or unleash him with a licence to attack with 30 to go.
i think its almost certain Rodgers will be sacked if we fail to qualify for the last 16 in the Champions League. The owners won’t trust him with the money anymore.
that looks like just about the most realistic analysis so far
I like Brendan, but this is starting to take the piss. He needs to do more than accept responsibility for our shit form, he needs to adapt to what’s happening, and actually *change* our tactics!
Rodgers has to be the problem here. His body language is SHOCKING – HE looks beaten – never mind the team.
There are good players all over the pitch and they are not playing like a team and all look to lack belief
Time for change I am afraid
I am not talking about the fans now. Show me one happy Liverpool FC fan. Many, myself included, are falling out with football. Such is the doom. I don’t know what is going on in the players’ heads, but they hardly look like they are enjoying themselves. I am inclined to think that with his confusing tactics and team selections, as well as treatment of certain players, Rodgers has lost a great deal of respect in the dressing room by now.
Apart from losing the face and becoming everybody’s, even Reading FC fans’ laughing stock, the club is going to lose (already have, down to poor transfer deals) tens of millions of money.
We are going to lose a big chunk of the TV money, possibly sponsors have the top 4 clauses in their contracts, and of course we are not getting the Champions League with everything that goes with it: money, better players, etc.
This is becoming a very serious issue that can see us back to a long spell in the world football sidelines.
People who say give the young manager who is still learning a chance, are deluded. He is not learning. Don’t you see that? He is not learning. He is too pigheaded. He bent down to Luis last season… changed the playing style, binned his fake “philosophy” because he had no choice – Luis was getting apeshit at all this tippy-tapping the ball among the CBs. Luis was doing the attacking coaching. It was him who galvanised players, drove them forward, signalled them where to be, shouted at them if they didn’t do the right thing. Cried when he couldn’t win the Title for his Captain. He gave us our heart, he fought for us, NOT for Rodgers, and the players fought for him. Such a great player he was. Now he’s no longer an objection for Rodgers to get back to his “Philosophy”. And the results are there for all of us to see.
People who blame Lovren, Johnson, Balotelli, etc… You will see, if some of them survive at the club post Rodgers, they are going to be much better players. Not world beaters, but no mugs either.
And Gerrard… I feel bad for him. Brendan is killing him as a legend for this club. And legend he is. Just a very hurt and shot of confidence one.
Again great article mate. Best on the podcast too. Terrible display by a lot of the lads who look around, no yelling, no accountability! Its a great shame we lost Luis, but come on….. Time to man up!
Lovren, as ya said, take a holiday!
Lucas in, Allen, leaking pints of blood, had to get a runner to a shop for a jersey…..best player we had…..?
Enough said……
Incidentally, for those who still has fith that Rodgers will learn and turn the tide, here is what Reading FC supporter remembers of the Rodgers’s tenure and dismissal:
Hugh Fort:
“Rodgers was seen as the natural successor to Steve Coppell – young, dynamic, and, importantly, with previous links to the club, having both played and managed Reading’s academy.
What he bought with him was some wonderful ideas and a book absolutely choc-full of meaningless football management speak.
Elliott is right in saying Reading was not the right club for him and his ideas, but that’s not good enough reasoning.
I had a season ticket that year, every time I turned up to a game whatever randomly selected team he’d picked that day gave the impression they’d been introduced to each other about 20 minutes before kick-off.
No-one understood what to do, the football was sleep-inducing tedious and utterly ineffective.
The tactics seemed to be tippy-tappying the ball around, losing it, letting the opposition score, then repeating the process until finally having your first shot in the 87th minute.
It was awful.
Rodgers revolutionary tactics were lost on an admittedly limited group of players.
But I ask you, if you are eating a meal, and you realise it’s disgusting, do you just blindly carry on eating it in the hope it gets better, or do you eat something else completely different?
Rodgers ploughed on and on, performances got worse and worse and the nonsense he was talking after games just got sillier and sillier.
Elliott is also overlooking the fact that when he was sacked, Reading were teetering above the relegation zone.
They did not give the impression of a team full of hunger for a relegation battle, more a team who really didn’t have any idea what they were supposed to do at all.
It might have worked, Rodgers might have kept us up, but it didn’t look very likely from where I was sitting.
I don’t doubt Rodgers is now a very good manager, I think he’d probably be a decent England manager, although why he’d want to is a mystery.
But at Reading he would not change his ways, ever single fan in the ground could see what he was doing was not working, but he never changed it.
If he’d had three years, I think he might’ve got that group of players playing like his Swansea team, but unfortunately it didn’t work like that, and I believe Mr Madejski was spot on in giving him the boot.”
Sounds painfully familiar, doesn’t it.
That game hurt, I didn’t have a great feeling going in to it but hoped we could scrape through and pick up a bit of confidence. Bringing up Reading is pretty ridiculous considering after everything that he has done since though.
LOL @ “that’s where we are, koulo toure deserves a start “
I would like to see us try three at the back again. What I can’t understand is that Rogers moved on from his first season and recognised the value of flexibility so where has that approach gone?
Has he lost the dressing room or is it fatigue? Players were running through brick walls for him last season, have they run out of steam or have all the new faces upset the cohesion
We can’t continue to pine for Suarez, its become too easy an excuse. I may be wrong but i seem to remember at one point the stats said we were performing better without him when he had the ban?
There was a moment in the first half that summed up how big a loss Suarez is. Sterling fires a cross/shot off Martin Kelly’s hand, probably would have been a harsh pen, there was a half hearted shout to the ref. If it was Suarez he would have been screaming,demanding that the ref awards the spot kick and he probably would’ve got it.. We don’t just miss his amazing skill and goals we also miss his personality, his unwilting will to win. Last year we were a team built in Suarez’s image,this year we’re built in a cross image of Mario and Lovren. No leadership, no shape, no organisation, no threat and it seems very little fight. i dont know how he fixes this
What an abysmal performance!!
I can’t defend Rodgers as he’s doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.
We pursued Moreno all summer, spent £12mil on him to solve our left back problem, he’s actually one of the few summer buys who looks decent and what does he do?? Drops him to the bench and puts Johnson, a right back, in instead!!!
The meritocracy has gone out the window!! The central defenders are poor and yet play every match. Johnson is running about with his head in the clouds and yet plays every match. Gerrard is completely ineffective and yet plays every match. 90mins of every match too. What is going on?!!
There is absolutely nothing special about us whatsoever. No spark. No fight. No determination. Nothing!!
And this is after spending £120mil in the summer!!
I can’t see us making top 4 this season and if we don’t, were fucked!! What top quality players are gonna wanna come to us?? What top quality managers are gonna wanna come to us??
I can’t defend the indefensible!
Rodgers will give his mates fat contracts, and then walk away with millions in the bank as a fuck-off payment.
Anyone in any doubt about his ability to fix the rot should look at what happened at Reading under his management.
Or, he may have learnt from Reading and man up to dropping those players who are clearly not arsed or struggling. Anyone else find it interesting it’s mostly the England contingent? Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling, Johnson, and sick-note Sturridge. Makes you wonder what happened over in Brazil during the summer.
“Anyone in any doubt about his ability to fix the rot should look at what happened at Reading under his management.”
Yes, all 5 months of it. What could possibly be the problem focusing exclusively on that and not, for example, his getting Swansea promoted the following season after their victory in the play-off final?
Hands-up if you know who Swansea beat in that play-off final?
I hear what you’re saying Brownie – it’s incredible how many people are so well informed about BR’s time at Reading and conveniently ignoring the rest of his career.
“The rest of his career”
Took over a Watford team in 18th place in November 08. Took them from 18th all the way up to finish a mighty 13th. 4/10 job.
Took over Reading in summer 2009. Reading had finished 4th the year before and had the biggest net spend of any championship club that summer under Rodgers. Was told to get automatic promotion. He said himself he expected promotion. Sacked in December with Reading in 21st. 21st out of 24 teams. 0/10 job.
Took over Swansea in summer 2010. Swansea had played brilliant football the previous year under Roberto Martinez and finished 7th on 69 points, just one point shy of the play off places. Rodgers again spent money and was told to get automatic promotion. He finished 3rd on 80 points. Beat Reading in Play Off final.
Since leaving Reading they went from 21st to finish 9th. This season they finished 5th to get into play offs. Not one Reading fan (or the Reading chairman) thinks if Rodgers stayed at Reading they’d have been within 90 minutes of premiership football. Reading then won the Championship and automatic promotion the season after this one. This is called progression.
Nevertheless Rodgers improved Swansea by 11 points and got promotion in the end, even though it wasn’t automatic. Conceded 45 goals.
Then in the premier league he got 47 points to survive relegation. Conceded 51 goals. 7/10 job.
So below average at Watford, brutally awful at Reading, good at Swansea.
nothing two world class in jan can’t fix.. Liverpool need to do good business early in the window.. We have no threat.
As an Evertonian let me tell you why this season is unique. Since the 70s there has always been at least one world eleven player at anfield – Suarez, Torres. Gerrard, Owen, Rush, Dalglish, Souness, Keegan, Clemence etc meant the tighter the game the better they played. Escapes from certain defeat, last minute miracles, courage and defiance form the dna of such players they were Shanks and Paisley on the pitch even when the great men had passed away.
For the first time in my 57yrs not a single player at anfield can wear those shoes – this is a watershed unmatched since the old second division days.
You make a very good point.
I have not watched us for a few weeks because TBH our football to date bores me shitless. I made the mistake of watching yesterday. No pride in the shirt, no fight, no honour, nothing. Is it asking to much to expect this? I am not asking for signings that cost a shed full of money, just a team that leaves everything out there and plays with pride and doesn’t allow themselves to be bullied. I can live with it when we lose and at least look like we care.
So to sum up, LFC’s saviours in waiting are Toure, Lucas and Can, and absent friends like Agger and Reina we should never have let go. Short fucking memories some of you.
Toure and Lucas were write-offs last season and I bet half of you talking about them like they could be ballon d’or contenders were in the vanguard of that. One decent game of damage limitation against Real and it’s as if Lucas hasn’t lost that yard of pace, and Toure isn’t an accident waiting to happen. Can will be a good player for us but he currently looks spent after 50/60 mins right now. Agger was last year’s Lovren and Reina was in decline – at least that’s what you lot were telling us the last time you demanded changes.
Thing is, I’m not saying that any of those players would do a worse job than the current first 11. Maybe they’d improve things, maybe they wouldn’t. But the idea that any off you can be *so certain* (the inclusion of XXX is a “disgrace”, the exclusion of YYY is “pathetic”) about the merits of this group over anyone else in the squad defies logic. None of these players are on speed dial for the best clubs in Europe and every last one of them (bar Can) was being regularly rubbished by the “everything is shit” mob the last time they were getting picked semi-regularly. Or maybe some of you can point me to the rave reviews you were giving Lucas/Agger/Toure last season? It’s a bit off a cliché to say that the guys not getting picked improve when your team goes through a bad patch, and never was it truer than here.
Ditto for the “drop Gerrard” panacea. Again, an argument can be made to drop Gerrard just like it can be made to drop virtually anybody right now, but this “Gerrard is an egomaniac” and “Rodgers is too scared to drop him” stuff is just risible. In fact it’s fucking shameful. Not because Gerrard should be immune from criticism – and many of you are proof that he isn’t – but because no-one commenting on this site has the first clue what size Gerrard’s ego is, or what Rodgers is scared/not scared to do. You’re inventing shit to support your simplistic narrative…just like the way any goal we concede – however it is conceded – is axiomatically due to Gerrard. And even when it’s clearly down to someone else, it’s still down to Gerrard by proxy because, well, it needs to be in order to make your point.
We had one shot on target yesterday. At one point in the second half we had 70% possession, and still one shot on target. Against Palace! People can say we should be tighter at the back and of course we should, but if we translate our superiority into goals then we win that game well before Bolasie produces his Messi-like magic for the second or Skrtel is pinged for having his shirt pulled on the third. The game is done. All supposedly superior teams, including your Chelseas and Citys, have games against the league’s worst that they sometimes lose, but when they do you tend to see stats that show they missed a bucketload of chances, that the opposition keeper played a blinder, etc.. We had none of that yesterday. Right now, I’d find it difficult to argue against any changes in personnel on the basis that things can’t get much worse, but the idea that anyone can be so certain that Toure/Lucas/Can are the answer to that sort of problem is ridiculous.
What’s wrong with considered analysis of the facts, discussion of tactics, formations, etc., instead of this baying certitude? It reminds of the Arsenal pricks on 606 who call for Wenger’s head every time they lose. Not only is it shite, but the sense of entitlement that drips from every criticism does my nut in.
I agree with the sentiment about the general hysterics in the attacks on Rodger’s personality or the ludicrous looking to his Reading record (really, Reading? What about Swansea or here’s a thought, us, where he has been at 5 times longer than Reading!). What’s more I think it has been a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. The attacks on him started well before the rot set in this season, especially when you could easily see the mitigating factors (no Sturridge, new players, Balotelli in horrible form) and he should have had a lot of good will in the bank to give him time to rebuild the team. I can only imagine how the feeling of dread I had coursing through my body while watching that game must be magnified by in his case, and how it must make it impossible to think anything whatsoever, let alone a clever way out of this mess.
But all that said, I couldn’t believe that I was watching Gerrard and Lovren out there again given the form they have been in. Most of our 70% possession consists of slow passes between Gerrard, Skrtel, Lovren and Mingolet, which don’t even cause the opposing striker to break a sweat let alone the death by football Rodgers’ is going for. It is the slowness of our midfield and our lack of ability to even properly control the game against a side like Palace which is mind boggling.
For me it just has to be Gerrard, I mean what is exactly is he offering us these days, movement and interplay with the other midfielders, setting the rhythm of the game, distribution to dangerous areas, through balls, ability to break up opposition play, positional sense? I don’t think you could say that he is providing any of those qualities you might look for in a midfielder at a level that would see him picked above any of Palace’s midfield on merit, let alone for a team with aspirations of top-4 and titles. The crazy thing is that there is absolutely no shame in it either, 34 is a completely respectable age for a footballer to retire to the green fields of the USA and live off their past glories. However, if he doesn’t see it for himself, Rodgers’ needs to do him a favour and do it for him.
Add leadership to that list. Our most experienced player and captain has no leadership skills. Ask Carra.
I’ve read Carra’s autobiography. I can see it on the shelf where I’m sitting. Want to give me a page reference?
I’ll do better than that:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/jamie-carragher-slams-liverpool-after-4683418
The key claim is as follows:
“There’s no leadership on the pitch. As a Liverpool fan, which I am – I don’t care about being neutral on TV – when you’re watching your own team, the worst thing you can ever think is they’re being bullied and weak.”
And this:
“Luis Suarez has gone. So what? There’s no leadership on the pitch. You look at the time and there’s no men in the team. Sometimes you’ve grind results out.”
Shouldn’t leadership start with the skipper?
So what happened here was this:
Brownie: Gerrard isn’t performing any worse than anyone else
TomC: Gerrard is offering nothing to this team you mug
Paul: Agree with TomC, Gerrard doesn’t even offer leadership, ask Carra.
Brownie: Oh really? Bollocks. Carra never said that. Carra wouldn’t say that. You’re lying. Ive read Carra’s book, have it sitting beside me, I want a reference because I don’t believe you.
Paul:
Brownie: Let’s talk about archers without a target….what, you thought I would admit I was wrong? lolololol
Really, Paul? I mean really? Carra pointing out that right now – at this point with LFC going through a shite period – we look leaderless, means that Carra believes Gerrard “has no leadership skills” in toto? You think that’s what he’s saying?
Even you don’t believe that.
Couple of points Brownie:
1 I was clearly referring to the present. What are we all talking about here?
2. Carra is clearly saying the team is leaderless, ergo Gerrard has no leadership skills. We need leaders now, not in 2005.
3. Who knows what he really thinks about Gerrard’s leadership skills. I can hazard a guess, because Carra was the leader on the pitch when he was playing despite not wearing the armband. If it wasn’t Carra it was Pepe or Mascherano. The team was full of leaders, so Gerrard didn’t need to be vocal. He does now, and look at us.
4. I don’t think he’s ever been a great leader on the pitch, great player, and capable of leading by example in spurts, but not a great leader in the Souness mould. Making him captain was one of Houllier’s greatest errors for my money, Stevie was/is at his best with an uncluttered mind. I do accept, however, that he may be a very good club captain, that he’s good for the team away from the pitch; as supporters we don’t see that part of his work and should take account of the praise meted out by others. I see no reason to doubt his off the pitch qualities. That should be his role going forward: club captain.
Was it Neil who talked about an archer without a target? I think I agree with that, and certainly if you are going to persist with the current line of attack (one that is as mobile as an American fridge-freezer) then you can make a case that Gerrard’s best assets are redundant. He doesn’t have a Torres or a Suarez or even a Kuyt running in behind, trying to drag the opposition defence out of shape. So if you want your guy sitting in front of the back-four to do nothing more than provide a shield then Lucas can do that better than SG. In fact he can do that better than SG when SG was 24, let alone 34. But that isn’t supposed to be why SG is in the team, or at least not the only reason. Gerrard is supposed to be the fulcrum of the side and the starting point for pretty much anything we do in attack. Point being, Gerrard is as much a victim of the current set-up as anyone out there; he’s not the *reason* we are currently shit. Swapping Lucas for Gerrard might give a little more protection to Lovren and Skrtel, but I’m not seeing what it does to help us turn 70% possession into goals. You’re right about how much of that possession came about against Palace, but how is that transformed by the inclusion of Lucas? Will the passing be any more direct, more forward-thinking, faster, more accurate? I know there are people on here who like to insist the Henderson’s lack of form, and basically the underperformance of everyone out there is due to Gerrard, but that is pure nonsense.
To be clear, I’m not intending to argue against the inclusion of Lucas (even if it’s not at the expense of Gerrard), but I’m just not seeing what others claim to be seeing when they talk about how obvious it is that we’d be so much better if Rodgers just did this or that (whether that’s to do with Gerrard or anything else). With the players we currently have and the form they’ve all shown so far this season, I don’t think it makes much difference which 11 takes the field right now.
Sooner or later we will play through this period, pick up a scratchy win here or there and improve – all of these players have previously shown they are better than what we’re currently seeing. Whether we’ll make top 4 or not is another matter, and I’ve not seen a single argument from anyone that makes me think ‘if only Rodgers would do what such-and-such is saying then we’d be laughing’. There are things I would personally change – such as not persisting with one up top – but there is nothing about the strikers who are currently missing out that convinces me the goals would start flying in if Rodgers would only do as I say. And that’s before we get to stuff like what Rodgers sees on the training pitch, for example.
Of course, Rodgers bought some of these players and didn’t buy others (I’m thinking particularly about back-up/support for Sturridge), so he ultimately carries the can. I’ve got no issue with that and I doubt he does, either. But the *constructive* criticism on here is thin on the ground, and when people are resorting to commenting on how white his fucking teeth are, I know they’re well past the constructive debate stage and are happy to dress up the most simplistic shite and call it an ‘argument’.
So, what you’re saying, is that with the players available Liverpool would be better off with Lucas in the holding role?
Unless something changes up front, then quite possibly. Although I don’t see as it would make that much difference, to be honest. We are 12th in the league with joint 10th goals scored. So our position is as much a reflection of our troubles in attack as it is what’s happening at the back. Lucas could play like vintage Makele for the rest of the season and whilst that should ensure we don’t lose some games, it won’t help us win any.
If/when Sturridge does come back, do you think he’d prefer to play with Gerrard in the team or out?
Who cares about when Sturridge gets back? You have to earn your place in the team on your own merit. We need to start winning games now, and we’re not going to do that if we don’t stop conceding because, as you rightly point out, we’re not scoring. Nothing would make me happier than Brendan Rodgers turning this around and giving us the fingers at the end of the season. I just don’t think it’ll happen as long as he treats Gerrard like a fetish object.
Agger wasn’t last year’s Lovren. You might want to check out the stats. He and Toure were our best partnership last season often with Lucas in front.
I thnk you’re missing the point about Lucas and Toure. The spine of the team is weak. No leadership, no confidence and no fight. That’s clear to everyone. The team isn’t working. We’re losing week in week out. What do you do? Carry on regardless or try and change things?
I’m not missing the point because I’m not even arguing against their inclusion, but I am pointing out the absurdity of the hysterical claims here that the inclusion of two players who only months back were getting slaughtered will somehow transform us into genuine top 4 contenders once again, and that anyone who isn’t totally bought into this notion wants their head examining.
I don’t think it’s about getting us back into the top 4. It’s about stopping the rot. It’s about winning the next game, pure and simple. In case you had noticed we’re in a huge crisis on the pitch. I’d probably agree that someone who doesn’t want to see some change does need their head testing.
I didn’t mean *I* thought he was last year’s Lovren so much as I suspect many of those currently lamenting his absence were at the front of the queue criticizing him last season. And let’s face it, before Toure put in his end of season horror shows Agger was the guy bearing the brunt of the defensive criticism on this blog and in the comments. Yet 12 games into 14/15 and suddenly his stock has risen again. Like I’ve already said, when your team is playing crap, anyone not in the side tends to be inaccurately eulogized.
Anyway, didn’t Toure and Agger only play single-digit games together last season? Wasn’t it 9, or something similar?
Whilst you’re undoubtedly right about absence and fondness, the point about Agger doesn’t ring true. A few criticised him after the Swansea game but he remained popular with most supporters and armchair critics. His main fault in most fans’ eyes, was that he never became quite the player we’d hoped he would; but he was still a solid citizen, infinitely better than Skrtl or Lovren (on current form).
You won’t find a bigger fan of Agger than me, and at his best he was indeed a better CB than anyone we have now. But he wasn’t at his best last season and he was the first to admit that himself when he left. Point being, the Agger of 2013/14 is not going to make a difference to us in 2014/15, so giving Rodgers pelters for letting him go looks like a bit of revisionism.
I think you should take much of what Agger said with a pinch of salt. Clearly an agreed statement with agents, lawyers etc.
I think we picked up our scratchy win at QPR. I am not going to even try and put it out there who should or shouldn’t be in the team, that’s the manager’s job and at the end of the day it’s his responsibility.
Stevie has been one of the greatest players to pull on a red shirt but sat in front of the defence does nothing for him or the team and other sides are exploiting us because of it. You are right about Lucas Brownie but he is our only option right now for that position again down to the fact that we ( for some reason) appear to believe a DM is not required at Anfield.
Rodgers hadn’t the experience to manage a club like Liverpool. Last season was a fluke; it wasn’t brilliant planning reaping fruition. We bought the likes of Aspas, Alberto and Moses ffs. There was no plan behind last season’s success.
This year Rodgers is feeling the heat of managing at a giant club and he is melting before our eyes.