NEIL ATKINSON is joined by Sachin Nakrani, Rob Gutmann and Craig Rimmer to go through Liverpool’s summer business as individuals, as a collective. They examine the strategy and its execution
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If Rob can get away with Wacky Races, then I’m going all in with Hong Kong Phooey!
Number one super guy! That’s taking it way back!
Or could it be Henry, the mild mannered janitor…..
Good, balanced show again. Parameters clearly set and adhered to. Couldn’t agree more with your conclusions. Quality over quantity next. I’d love Lloris, Varane and Cabaye playing behind, alongside and in front of Sakho – would solve our defensive and midfield problems at a stroke but I can’t see it happening; that would be far too logical.
I think everyone would agree that our strategy and setup is confused, there’s too little accountability and we don’t seem to have anyone who can get deals done consistently. I’d take issue with Neil’s line of argument given that we had a Sporting Director and ended up with CHAD. I’m not convinced by the director model, I do think we need someone who can get deals done: in an ideal you don’t want the manager involved in negotiations. A Baldini type is the way to go, just don’t let him select the players – get him in to seal deals. The elephant in the room of course, is whether Brendan Rodgers has an eye for a player; but given that the manager is ultimately responsible for team selection and performance I think you’ve got to give him final say. We seem to be betwixt and between at the moment. We’re employing neither the continental nor the traditional British model so shouldn’t be surprised that the outcomes are mixed at best.
My concerns are as follows: we’ve lost our identity, the players seem to have been brought in to play a system that doesn’t work for us, and we had no contingencies once it became clear Suarez was leaving which given how many people are employed at the club is amateurish at best. I’m also worried that our model seems predicated on buying 6 suits from TK Maxx, when we could be buying 2 from TK and 2 from D&G/Hugo Boss/Paul Smith. We don’t need an either/or approach and you don’t replace a Lamborghini with a Ford Capri, a Mondeo and a TR7.
Having said all that, it’s far too early to judge the younger recruits.
Yea gotta agree on the shout for Lloris. Would be great to get him in and think he would suit our style of play. Could form part of a strong back line with Sakho in front of him.
Great names mentioned there, and love to get them all in in January!
Seriously, how likely is that? Firstly, with some if the rumours coming out in the press recently about Rodgers position, I doubt FSG would sanction those deals. Mostly because sellers would know how desperate we are and prices would sky rocket, not to mention the wages you’d have to pay – this would not fit the Fsg model, and I’m hearing that Fsg don’t trust Rodgers with any more cash. (I certainly wouldn’t!)
Secondly, I very much doubt Rodgers can attract those type of players in the first place. Falcao, Sanchez, benzema are examples of this. They want to play for proven managers and Rodgers is far far from that – he has zero pedigree. His “project” was 3 years long, and here we are in year 3 and arguably worse off than when he arrived. Transition my arse, we are in perpetual bloody transition (hate that word!)
The other thing is, by January we could be out of the CL (very likely), and probably bottom half if the table- would Martinez want to join a struggling, medicre team which is what we are at the moment?
No, I think Fsg will not sanction anything for January, other than perhaps paying an extra premium to get in origi early from loan. They’ll wait and see where we are at end of season and hopefully decide to get rid of Rodgers so we can get someone in who knows what he’s doing.
Sorry, that was meant for Michael!
Origi’s not ready to come to the Prem. I believe he’s scored 3 in 11 in the French league. (French would be in italics if I could do it i.e. it’s shit). I also read that he was poor against Everton which tells us something. I think this is one of those times where we have to be patient and wait for him.
there was a target and alternatives, none of them worked out. You can’t just say, as so many fans are doing, that because we didn’t get a target or several targets that it was incompetence. That’s just lazy and stupid.
The quality argument over quantity is nonsense too. We bought good quality youngsters which should serve us very well in a season or two (and some of them are doing well now aswell), we had to pay release clause money to get them but we did it.
The question marks are over the starting / senior buys. Those look poor 1) because BR is shit at spotting players and 2) because the quality we want won’t come.
I can’t stand this generalising you get on all the podcasts. It’s just lazy.
Great opening salvo from the Guttman btw. Daddy Pig is a cunt!
Paul, I’ve seen you mention Varane before. I make no secret of the fact that I don’t watch European football much so I don’t know him. Was good against us but am I missing something? What makes you think he’d even consider coming to us? All I know is he’s good and plays for Real. So what could we offer him?
I don’t think he’d come to us tbh. But the rumour mills are suggesting he’ll become available as he’s ‘out of favour’ at Real. I find that difficult to believe, he’s the best young defender in Europe.
Cabaye is available and Lloris may be gettable. Add those two to the mix with Sakho and Liverpool become much more appealing to Varane. Can’t see it happening though. I read another rumour linking us to Pique, again far-fetched. A couple of fans were saying they’d give their right arm for him but Varane’s twice the player already and will only get better.
Really glad yous done this podcast as our transfer activity this summer has really bugged me. Gotta agree with the basic premise that the players we bought arnt necessarily bad players they’re just not the players we should have bought.
There’s not one player we’ve bought that I can say “He’s defo in my starting XI!”
You could see how Sanchez would have made sense in our team with the way we play but I agree with the lads when they say that we could have done more to land him. Didn’t Wenger meet up with him in Brazil to convince him to join or am I completely making that up?!
Anyway looking to the future we need to sign a top quality attacker next in Jan. he could be the difference in making top 4 or not. Higuain maybe?? I’m not sure.
Would love to see us going all out to get Javi Martinez next summer if he recovers well from his injury. I’m not convinced he’ll play regularly for Bayern so we could stand a great chance of landing him. This season is probably Gerrards last of playing regular football, Lucas looks like he’s gonna be off soon so we could do with a physical, dominant midfielder. I think he would fit in with Prem and us really well. We are crying out for a big physical presence in the middle of the park.
That was about right. Cheers.
Funny that Lallana and Lambert haven’t featured together even once this year.
Indeed, except that it isn’t. It looks like really poor man-management. You do wonder sometimes if Rodgers is making a point to the committee.
If he is, it’s going to cost his job. There’s no way FSG will keep him around beyond the end of the season unless there’s a huge turnaround of performances and results. Without a run in the CL, and qualifying again this season, Rodgers is on borrowed time, at least until Gerrard serves him his eviction notice.
Who’d take the job though? It’s not as though managers were beating a path to our door last time. Rodgers wasn’t even the number one choice, was he? FSG are not particularly attractive employers.
Unfortunately, all this brings back too many bad memories … of Benitez fight with Rick Parry to the detriment of the team. I didn’t mind BR making a point to the committee by not playing Aspas, but his treatment of Sakho, Lallana, Lambert etc seems pretty counterproductive.
Transfers are based on four things:
1. Identifying Talent – is he a good player?
2. Identifying Value – is the asking price too much and is it based on ability now and/or potential?
3. Strategy of the Club – many cheap signings on low wages to develop long term and hope 2/3 become top class or a few expensive signings on high wages knowing they are already top class, or a mixture of both
4. Strategy of the First Team – replacing a fast, mobile, skilful forward with a fast, mobile, skilful forward even if there is a marked difference in overall ability between the two players
Now 1 and 2 can tie in with one another, and 3 and 4 usually do tie in with one another, although not always. It’s easy actually. The player needs to be good enough, not too expensive for the resources available, and fit into both the club and the first team.
Put simply, we have been disgustingly bad in all 4 areas. For the purposes of relevancy let’s look at all transfers since Brendan took over (then a closer look at this summer’s work) and compare it to Chelsea, who have a similar net spend over the same timeframe – £30m over 3 years isn’t much.
Since summer 2012 we have a net spend of £95m. (£212m out, £117m in) Since summer 2012 Chelsea have a net spend of £125m. (£279m out, £154m in)
In summer 2014 we had a net spend of £37m. (£120m out, £83m in) In summer 2014 Chelsea had a net spend of £16m. (£91m out, £75m in)
Now, as a disclaimer I know we needed some bodies in for the increased number of games this season, but after seeing what happened at Spurs the best idea was to buy spend the £120m over 6 players instead of the 9 we did get, ensuring (theoretically) higher class players. Less new faces to settle in, better performances/results, more confidence, meaning we can bring two or three kids through as well. If they don’t make the grade, the better results from the better players we’ve signed makes us a more attractive club to come to in the coming windows to fill out the squad.
1 & 2 – is he a good player and is he value?
We’ve signed 25 players since Brendan took over. Two have been a success. An eight percent success rate! Some, like Moreno, the jury is still out on in fairness. But only Sturridge and Coutinho have increased in value – both probably worth three times what we paid. Apart from that it’s an unmitigated disaster. Check this out:
Courtois cost nearly half of what Mignolet did and is more than twice the keeper.
Cahill cost a third of what Lovren did and is more than three times the player.
Azpilicueta cost nearly half of Moreno.
Matic a few quid more than Allen.
Lallana a few quid less than Hazard.
Oscar a few quid more than Markovic.
Value is not about cheap signings as some think. Who offers greater value, Lambert at £4m or Alexis at £40m? Mignolet at £10m or De Gea at £18m?
The transfer market, like any market on Earth, is about value. Sach said it perfectly in the podcast – if you’re going to spend £20m on a player (Markovic) who looks as though he can be very good, why not spend £30m for a player you already know is very good (Hazard, Costa or Fabregas)? When you make such transactions you want to make sure there is as little risk as possible. You want the odds in your favour. We don’t do that. Chelsea do, and ironically they don’t really have to because of the money their owner has. (I’m still to be convinced FFP will have any impact)
3 – strategy of the club?
We either don’t have one or it’s so poor it’s hard to make out. It may be buy half expensive (circa £20m) talented young players who may double in value but who may halve in value?
Neil asks in the podcast what does £20m gets you these days.
Courtois was £6m.
Cahill was £7m. Azpilicueta was £7m.
Nemanja Matic was £21m.
Oscar was £25m.
They’ve all been signed in the last 2/3 years by a club the world knows has a lot of money, which tends to drive prices up. Compare, in the same time frame, to:
Mignolet £10m.
Lovren £20m. Moreno £12m.
Allen £15m.
Lallana £25m. Markovic £20m.
Borini £10m.
Now I have only used one club in one country to show how good they’ve been and how bad we’ve been in recent years in the £20m zone. I could expand it to other clubs and all price ranges to further make my point but there is no need.
4 – strategy of first team?
This has been awful. Replacing someone so full of movement like Suarez with Lambert and Balotelli has been beyond bad. Take away the difference in quality and just go like for like – well, they are nothing alike. Remy and Alexis would have been perfect but they didn’t happen for whatever reason. Fine. That doesn’t mean you got to two big men!
How about not buying a defensive midfielder? How about signing Manquillo when we have Wisdom? Was paying that two year loan fee necessary? Could it have gone to offering Alexis better wages for example?
The way I see it we have a lot wrong with us and how we go about our transfers highlight most of it:
More than one entity at the club buying players, meaning
No accountability, so
The loss of identity of the team through the signings of Lambert and Balotelli, with
Rodgers playing his men (Lovren) over The Transfer Committee’s men (Sakho) to the detriment of the team, and
This stubbornness from Rodgers in other areas, like
The regression of Gerrard, the manager’s refusal to ease him out and this effect of the team
These have all been discussed here or before so I’ll leave go on to this summer’s signings……
Lovren. £20m. 0/10.
Disaster. But our summer’s been so bad he has contenders for our worst buy.
Can we stop saying he’s trying too hard? Please? He’s supposed to try hard. That’s the bare minimum required for any professional football, let alone a £20m one who plays for LFC. The same was being said about Lambert. “Oh he’s playing for his boyhood club, he’s trying too hard, give him time and he’ll come good.” No.
Lovren went from Dinamo Zagreb to Lyon for £9.5m. He was poor on the whole, initially failing to establish himself then did so when a few defenders chose to leave. He was dodgy at centre back and was moved to right back before going back to centre back alongside their captain Cris. Cris was a top quality, incredibly underrated CB for Lyon for nearly a decade. He played when they dominated French football and threatened to win the Champions League. He constantly covered Lovren. Plus Lyon always had two defensive mids in Gonalons, Toulalan/Kallstrom. This didn’t stop Lovren playing poorly and getting sent off 6 times in 3 years. Philippe Auclair, a top French football journalist, said he never recovered from the awful start he had in Lyon. He also said as soon as we signed him it had potential for disaster. (Follow Auclair on twitter)
Lyon decided to take a loss on him. He moved to Southampton for £8.5m. Just like at Lyon he played beside an under rated centre back. This time he also had two top class full backs, although both are better at going forward. He again played behind two defensive midfielders. Schneiderlin and Wanyama was were everything good started for Southampton last season (and so it has continued this) and one or the other would constantly cover Lovren when he would run 20 yards out of position to attack the ball in case he didn’t win it. The thing is though, they still conceded 46 goals, only 4 less than us. And we knew we were shocking at the back.
Now the lads haven’t went into hearsay but the rumours are Carra recommended him to Brendan who wanted a talker/organiser/leader at the back. But throwing your hands around, screaming here or there and running out of position to not win the ball is not and has never been leadership. All I and a good few others ever saw with Lovren was an average and inconsistent centre back. Sometimes he looked like a poor man’s Hyypia, at others a headless chicken. He got laced by Soldado at St Mary’s last year – Soldado is so slow he doesn’t know what time the 10 o’clock news is on.
Sach admits to contradicting himself between £20m for Lovren and £20m for Markovic in terms of the time you give them. But surely the younger foreign creative midfielder who has no experience of the league and language is the one you give time too? It hasn’t worked with Lovren. His head is fried. As Neil says, he’s got worse. Much worse. He should have been dropped before now. That he hasn’t highlights two things: Rodgers picking favourites and two entities at the football club doing the signings. Lovren is a Rodgers man and the manager up til now has been too stubborn to drop him (hoping he will prove him right) to the detriment of the team.
Lovren may come good, although I doubt it. I reckon in a defensive team he could become more than adequate. But that won’t happen here, or not under Rodgers anyway.
In three years will be playing for Aston Villa.
Manquillo. Two Year Loan. £2m. 4/10.
Young and inexperienced. Done ok at times but as the lads said he and Rodgers probably didn’t think he would have played so much. But he doesn’t offer much more, if anything, than Wisdom would have. Or even Martin Kelly. He’s ok defending one on one but for a modern full back doesn’t offer a lot going forward. Too keen to put a cross in the box, which might have been ok but for how we’re playing and the lack of numbers we have in the box.
In three years I’d imagine he’ll be playing regular right back for Levante.
Moreno. £12m, possibly £15m depending on appearances. 7/10
Much more ready for first team football than Manquillo. Much higher ceiling too. Great start but form tailed off along with the team. If we don’t hinder his development I’m convinced he’ll become world class. If we do he’ll end up another Riise, who wasn’t bad.
In three years he could be playing for Real Madrid, but will probably still be here.
Can. £10m. 6/10.
Unit. Just starting to come to the boil. Given that before he signed he asked for a release clause to be put in for £10 should Bayern Munich come in for him, he clearly has bags and bags of self-confidence. And then some more bags and bags of self-confidence. Slow start due to injuries but Madrid and Chelsea games showed promise, not least because he done well despite puffing and blowing at different points in both games. When fit could be a real asset.
In three years he might still be here.
Lallana. £25m. 4/10.
Clearly talented with very good feet and a quick brain. But he’s so slow. He’s so unfit and unlike Can he can’t get fitter – it’s just genetics. £25m is a lot of money for someone who will be on the bench if the best 11 take the field.
In three years could be back at Southampton.
Markovic. £20m. 2/10.
Brutal so far but he’s a kid in another new country who clearly hasn’t settled yet. What is worrying is he’s supposed to have Olympic calibre sprinting in him and we haven’t seen it once, and that has little to do with settling. Perfect example of taking the £20m he cost us, adding £10m and buying someone like Fabregas who you know has much less risk attached. I do hope he comes good but it is so unlikely. Good transfers tend to show themselves in the first 1-12 games. Look at Lamela and Spurs – might have a bit of an upturn in form but never become what he was supposed to.
In three years will be playing for Rubin Kazan.
Lambert. £4.5m. 0/10.
Clearly not good enough. Clearly needs games to get fit which he was never going to get here. Romance has next to no place in modern football.
In three years will be retired.
Balotelli. £16m. 3/10.
Been poor but not had the team to suit him. Not sure how many times Rodgers needs to play him on his own to understand he needs a partner. Having said that he probably won’t fit in anyway as he isn’t mobile enough. That’s our fault for signing him, not his. Nice kid, does try hard, just at the wrong team.
In three years will be playing for Inter.
Auclair also rates Sakho very highly.
Great read, can’t argue with any of that
ridiculous post, in length and doing stupid things like comparing us to chelsea (and hence totally ignoring wages and where they are as a club). Makes it a waste of space.
This summer:
– Young players – very good buys. some already showing it. Paid release clause money to make it happen.
– 1st team signings – awful. and we’re not using them properly. That’s mainly on BR.
Coach should be clear about the qualities he wants in a player and critically HOW HE WANTS TO PLAY THEM. eg Lallana will only be any good if he’s played the way he was in Soton (free roll). Same for Lambert (not a target man).
The DoF should be well connected and a good name to attract players. We don’t have that right now.
As for last year/year before very poor not just by the club but also by BR. But then we bought in BR an inexperienced guy with no experience at the top level. Who also incidentally looks tactically poor.
“ridiculous post, in length and doing stupid things like comparing us to chelsea (and hence totally ignoring wages”
Ridiculous huh?
In length? Can you not concentrate for that long? I am sorry if that’s the case.
Comparing us to Chelsea? What, the team we finished ahead of last season and had a net spend double of what they had in the Summer? That comparison?
Totally ignoring wages? Yea, I mentioned wages. Specifically regarding keeping Wisdom, not paying loan fee for Manquillo and adding it to the wage offer to Alexis. Read it again. If you’re going to criticise that’s fine, I’m going to be wrong about things and I’ll answer points. But don’t make things up.
“This summer:
– Young players – very good buys. some already showing it. Paid release clause money to make it happen.”
Very good buys? Already showing it? Who exactly? I must be watching different players and a different team to you. I see potential to be good buys – different from proving they are very good buys already – in one or two, but the rest have been awful.
well if you can’t see it then I can’t help you, and frankly I’m not interested in helping you.
And yes, your post is ridiculously long. I concentrate just fine thank you very much which is why I have letters after my name, but you carry on with your condescending attitude and absurd length posts.
A lot of good points there Chris. They haven’t however lost one penny yet on any signing made since Rodgers arrived. In fact, if Borini & Assidi would have only played ball he would have made a nice little profit on those two.
Balotelli is the big issue for me. For me, he fly’s in the face of everything I have ever heard Brendan Rodgers say about the game and about what he looks for in a player. I keep hearing about his “talent” and ability but I just don’t see it. Even trying his best, which he hardly ever does, I think he is an extremely limited footballer.
And he said in the US that he didn’t want him – though it begs the question why he talked him up in the previous presser. WTF BR, why do those things? Anyway seems like from what he said Balo was the one left and available, but to then not play to his strengths, why bother? It’s just chucking our season away.
BR is a bit of an idiot with his mouth. talks utter garbage a lot of the time and talks technically too, like he’s trying to convince people that he knows what he’s doing. That’s unravelling rather this year and everyone’s just going to think it was all Suarez last year.
Fair points on Borini and Assaidi, although the money that was offered is helped by the the new TV money that’s come in.
Balotelli is undoubtedly a good player. Prior to us he scored 1 goal every 2.36 games. For still a young man who spent most of his time in Italy and playing Champions League football, that’s more than enough proof he’s a good player. 13 in 33 for Italy is adequate as well. It’s just that he doesn’t suit us at all and I’ve a suspicion that his body has changed this last few years (more muscle, less pace) and he’s less mobile (not that he ever was the most mobile anyway) than he was before. Lets see how he performs in a two but I wouldn’t be terribly hopeful he’ll be with us long term or in any way a success.
I have been thinking a long the same lines about Balotelli gaining muscle and losing pace too. Same thing happened with Andy Carroll as well in my opinion. The more that I think about it there are a lot of parallels between the Balotelli and Carroll buys besides the fee… Actually I think it is a bit of a thing (in a number of sports) for big guys to peak around 21-22 while they still mobile and nimble because they haven’t filled out fully.
Just to clarify, I reckon Balotelli still has much more potential than Andy Carroll did though, as his touch and ability to hold the ball up and roll a man on the turn is very good. I think Rodgers is trying to work out ways to make the most of this but it is taking a while.
Again Chris, on the surface I can’t find fault with any of this (not that I’d want to) but dig a little deeper and it’s not as clear cut as you make out. Reminds me a little bit of spin doctoring – take a fact and interpret it to suit your agenda. For the record I agree with what you’re saying. The transfer policy needs a re-think. We haven’t done well enough in the transfer market.
What I’m amazed at though, is only JonnyS has pointed out the biggest flaw in your comparisons. The podcast contributors were guilty of it too. If you buy an Iphone for £200 upfront then have to pay £40 a month for 24 months then it doesn’t actually cost £200 does it. It’s false accounting to think it does. Fabregas cost £30m plus £40m wages over 5 years. Fast forward 5 years and Fabregas has cost them £70m. Markovic will have cost us £40m. Don’t get me wrong, I’d still rather pay the extra for Fabregas spread over 5 years but when you sign 7 or 8 players like that then it becomes a difference of a quarter of a billion over the 5 years (sorry that’s £250m, a bit of spin doctoring there for effect). So, I think we need to look at the wages we pay because at the minute it gets us average players rather than good ones but I don’t buy this £20m v £30m argument as so cut and dried.
The other point is, it’s ok comparing against Chelsea’s best buys over the past 5 years – again, don’t get me wrong I think they’ve bought better than us but why aren’t you comparing say, Salah at £11m to Coutinho at £8.5m. How about Sturridge for £12m against say Schurrle for £18m. Actually, you could list a few Chelsea players who aren’t worth the money. The ones you mention are.
As it happens, I used the exact same statistics last week about Ivanovic, Cahill and Apzilcueta. I heard it on the radio and when my mate said it’s FSG’s fault we’re in this position I said the money has been there for the defence, compare it to Chelsea’s etc. My point was it’s not about the money invested but about how the money has been spent. I didn’t mention wages or wage structures though as it didn’t suit the point I wanted to make. So, I think you’re right in what you’re saying but you’ve put an even more negative spin on it than it probably is.
Yea, fair enough, good points.
Chelsea pay more in wages. So the figures in my above post would be different if changed to include salary. But as you acknowledge in your post, you’d still rather pay £70m over 5 years for Fabregas than £40m over 5 years for Markovic, so my overarching point about transfers, value and our strategy remains.
Thing is though, and this is important, so we gamble with Markovic and hit the jackpot. Pay £20m and within two years he’s worth £60m. Guess what will happen? We’ll offer him a new contract after a year at least doubling his wages! Just like with Suarez. Whereas the liklihood in needing to up the salary of a Fabregas for example is negligible.
On the wage bill alone, a player just left who was on £200,000 a week. The captain is on £150,000 a week and won’t be for much longer. If Gerrard leaves or retires, thats £18m per annum from just 2 players freed up for wages for other players. That’s a lot, especially if spread to what we would already offer to say a Costa and a Fabregas.
We need to better at closing out deals. As the lads said in the pod, every time we’ve had competition for a signing we lose out. Unless it’s Southampton in for Coutinho. Wages is what attracts the player most. Not geography/London. Eto’o signed for Anzhi.
PS: We’re currently trying to get Gerrard to agree to £70k per week and he isn’t having it at all. Feels insulted apparently. Crazy.
Haha, good points too. I think we’re probably in a similar place regarding transfers, the transfer committee and the transfer structure. My point was more one of glass half full / glass half empty.
FSG have an idea of how they want to do things. My mate goes mad when I defend them but it’s just that, first and foremost, I believe we had to change, we had to exploit the brand. My heart skipped a beat on the way home from work tonight when I heard, on the news, that Utd’s revenue was down 9.9%. That could have huge implications. The first being that they’ve announced they won’t be signing anyone in January. It’s so important now regardless of whether FFP is enforced. Getting back to my point – one of the things they’ve decided (as you’ll know) is that players are paid almost by performance related. No more Joe Cole’s or Milan jovanovic’s on £110k a week for doing fuck all. So yeah, wages do go up (and down) based on their worth. It sounds like a fair policy to me. Gives incentive rather than someone sitting back and watching the money flow in despite poor performances. I liked a few of their policies – making a stance on wages and player transfer fees especially.
In reality the stance isn’t working. It’s a shame but we’re the only ones doing it so it means players just swerve us. I thought the idea of getting the Joe Cole’s of the books was to free up that salary for someone who is worth it therefore improving the squad but it seems we just offer all new players a low wage (in comparison to other clubs haha – 70k a week sounds ok to me) and it’s up to them to earn more. It was supposed to create a ‘hungry’ team more driven by wanting to play for a great club than earning loads of cash. It’s probably closer to say we’ve attracted the weaker minded ones as a result. I respect the fact that they have a clear vision but I just hope they’re flexible enough to change the area’s that haven’t worked or in their eyes haven’t improved the business and I hope when they do that they realise the wage structure is holding us back.
Hope you’re right about Gerrard. Extending his contract on the same terms would send a terrible message to the team and would be very bad business indeed. Insulted? Entitled more like. What a diva!
I’ll make one point in defence of FSG. The club were seen as soft touch in the market after CHAD. We’d earned a reputation for overpaying and desperate purchases: in short we’d become a soft touch, a laughing stock. I get the impression that FSG were none too keen on being seen as mugs and for good or ill, made a conscious decision to discipline the market over two to three windows; we’d be seen to pursue names, but only complete on the club’s terms. We were sending a message to the market. That would go some way to explaining our failure to seal deals for a number of players. It may pay off in the long term, God knows our reputation wasn’t helping us, but I’m not sure that the transfer market operates in any logical fashion: Southampton saw us coming this summer.
Sturridge at 12m cf Torres at 50m!
Purchase price isn’t the only factor. You need to look beyond that. Invariably the wages part is the real cost. FSG won’t pay high wages, ergo, LFC will not be able to sign proven top players.
This has been the case since the 90s. A £20m player may accept £60,000/week if they’re young and on the fringe of a club they probably won’t make first 11, but then there are £20m players because they are paid £150,000/week and few clubs can afford them. I.e. the £20m means very little.
I don’t think that’s quite right. They will pay the wages but want proof of ability.
What they would rather do is get a player before his cost is at full value and at lower wages. Not because they won’t pay but because you can’t move them on with high wages if they don’t work out. So if they prove their worth, then fine, pay them. Otherwise it really hurts the club – the thirst for more signings never abates.
Ironically Sturridge proved his worth, got his new contract and is now out for 4 months or who knows how long!!!
Now with Sanchez they were prepared to pay, not convinced Arsenal are paying any more than we would but he wouldn’t come.
I’ve seen people say we should have bought Fabregas but not only is he not a good fit for BR he’s not what is missing, his wages would have to be very high. Didn’t make sense for us, poor defensively and pressing wise, wouldn’t displace anyone we have.
We missed out on a goalscorer this summer – now I hate lovren but that one goalscorer transforms our season.
The young players I don’t care about but all have been good except for Markovich ( who might just need more time) – infact for such young players they have done amazingly well. But the first team signings beg questions and as I say, it’s the striker thats killing us (despite all of Lovren’s mistakes).
So the summer wasn’t as bad as people are making out, and is better than previous summers but the striker thing, well I hope that is a big lesson to the club that they can’t mess up with such a crucial need ie goals, when you have Paper Thighs Sturridge as your main hope.
I also think BR has damaged himself this summer with his choices. Lovren, Lallana, poor and may not be a difference maker respectively, and big money; Lambert instead of Eto. Did he turn down other striker options? eg did he get offered Sakho that WHU got?
Further it seems to me that BRs belief in a defending style that is proving suicidal. CBs springing out for every ball and missing by miles is his “aggression”, “Front footed” defending. It’s dumb and it’s cost us lots of goals. Lovren might not be a good defender but BRs style is making him worse. Same with Migs.
His lone striker switch this year might have worked with a decent front man. The guys behind may have fitted in well with it but the defence is a disaster and its down to his methods I reckon.
sorry about the length of the post.
Interesting post, Chris. I take your point. However, I do think it’s tricky to look at the players at Chelsea who have been successful and draw too many inferences. They’ve bought a lot of players, at a range of prices, who have not worked out.
That said, we’ve been pretty hit-and-miss. Largely, I think, because FSG want to play the ‘long’ game. I also think they probably feel gun-shy after splashing the cash on the Andy Carroll signing, which went belly up.
Finally, I’d add that we also need a better chief executive. Compare the job that David Gill did at united with the debacle that followed after her left. Chelsea also seem to have an outstanding person in Kenyon. These guys get the deals done. Ruthless. Efficient. Persuasive. None of the nonesense with Mkhitarian, Willian, Sallah, Sanchez et al.
An interesting dissection of this window’s business but it can’t be seen in isolation from all of the business done by Rodgers and his committee. Together they have brought in 25 players to the Club, and by common consensus and the evidence of my eyes, only two can be deemed successes – Sturridge who has repeated spells on the sidelines and Coutinho who still blows hot and cold. That’s it, over £200m spent and that’s it!
The two new Spanish full backs look promising, as does Can. Markovic deserves time to develop but we needed top proven talent to build on last season’s runner’s up place. It was time to add quality and take the fight to the rest of the top teams, and have a decent go in the Champions League. It was time to make sure we were genuine contenders. Instead we have bought poorly and we are were we are. Plan B seems to be wheel out a slow 32 year old and hope for the best.
FSG must look at the way things have collapsed so far this season and if we are’t serious top for material come May, then serious judgments have to be made about the playing staff but, more importantly, the management team. As the guys said we have lost our identity and we need to find one prontoo!
I would be very interested at how you would judge other teams performance in the transfer market by the standards you are laying out there. I can’t be arsed going through all the transfers of other teams but I reckon if you looked at Arsenal, City, Utd and Chelsea (not to mention Spurs) over the same period you would find that their success rates are not much better. Add that to the context of how much we have been struggling over that period and I actually think the club have done pretty well since Rodgers came in (definitely better than the seasons previous that’s for sure).
A pet hate of mine is lumping the total gross spend over a number of seasons to create some huge number and using that as a stick to beat the managers with. It is what the mancs did to have a go at Rafa and it as Robin said it is like some political spin doctor trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Sure it is an obscene amount of money to be spending on football but that is just the reality of the world we live in.
Had we got a decent front man in I think we’d be sitting pretty and laughing about Lovren’s mistakes.
One signing, a crucial one, but it would have made all the difference.
I think they’re learning, improving with each summer’s work ( though CL made them pony up release clauses – they wanted to make sure they bought quality) and those young players are very good and that is a big deal for the next few seasons.
But the 1st team signings (bar Balo) seem to be about BRs choices not buying strategy. That’s a big problem for me. Balo aside, that’s not on the committee. BR has to do better but I don’t think he’s experienced enough.
I have no issues with any of the players he bought except Balotelli. Most fans on most LFC forums were all quit happy with the signings at the end of August but they have all turned into “i told you so” merchants. Remy instead of Balotelli and it could have all been so different. Personally I don’t have the stomach for another manager arriving with his 3 year plan etc etc. It’s up to Brendan Rodgers to sort it out. I know City fans & indeed Utd fans who would gladly have taken him as their manager at the start of this season. There’ll be plenty of time at seasons end to reflect & use the long knifes if necessary. In the meantime maybe we could “support” our manager & team or do we “only sign when we are winning”.
Enjoyed the podcast. Think the 4/10 rating of the summer signings is about right. I’m probably more negative about the balotelli signing than those on the podcast. Fair enough he should be playing as part of a front two but I’ve not seen enough promise in his play to make me think he can deliver when paired with sturridge. I don’t think origi will be the answer but it is still imperative we bring him in in January. He’d start ahead of balotelli I’d ike to think on current form and we need to cover for the possibility of sturridge being out again.
The widely made point that we should have focussed on a few quality signings rather than numerous average signings is seeming more and more valid as time passes. It makes you wonder if some of the players that were brought in in the summer are appreciably better than some of the players we have on loan or on the fringes of things – is Lovren better than wisdom? Is Manquillo better than Flanagan? Is markovic better than Ibe? Are some of the new signings not getting in the way of suso’s progression? I would love to see Suso get more chances
I think the views of the contributors when reviewing the new players summed up perfectly how I feel about any given one of them – he’s young, he’s showed some good moments, he’s absolutely shit, he’s over priced, he’s value, he doesn’t suit our style, he’s perfect for this and that scenario etc, etc. It’s so hard to know. It changes every week. We’ll know for sure next season whether our instincts were right or wrong. One thing we all agree on though is it’s looking like we didn’t buy the right players. The subject raised in this podcast and sub plots within it have become the biggest issues around the club at the minute. Problem is, it seems to be every window we’re disgruntled with some aspect of it. Something’s clearly not working. Look at our best signing recently, it’s not a case of ‘we got that one right’ it’s a case of ‘the manager didn’t want him’. It’s one step forward one step back all the time (I think that’s more accurate than two steps back). Typical Liverpool – every time we need to go for the jugular we snap around the ankles. I think there are good intentions there but the system needs reviewing. It could clearly be better.
I found the Suarez talk a bit strange. We’re fans with no inside information but we can still ‘deduce’ a situation. Suarez was never staying. Ok, as fans we hoped he might give us 1 more year in the CL. We hoped we’d matched his ambition but then there’s reality. I don’t care what sources anyone has at the club – he was always leaving this summer. If the club hadn’t worked that out then it’s even more worrying than we thought. The evidence is all there, last summer’s desperation to leave, the new contract, his ambition, his treatment in the press and by opposition fans. We can be a bit too romantic sometimes. I’d hope to God that was taken into account when weighing up our budget and targets and it was something else that went wrong why we didn’t end up with anyone. Talking of the Suarez transfer. I can’t find any evidence that we got £75m for him. Everything points to 81m Euro’s or £65m. That’s certainly the Barca stance and it appears LFC have said nothing on it. Irrelevant except that ‘net spend’ is as equally important to fans as points on the board these days.
On the one hand I completely agree we should have bought some world class players and we need to pay higher wages to get them but on the other, if you’ve got a situation where Suarez will almost certainly go on a hunger strike if we don’t let him leave and Sanchez is saying I’m not going there, end of. How is our hand strong enough to start making demands to Barca? The proof was in the pudding. We probably came out of it with a below market value price (debatable) and no Sanchez. I enjoyed it when Neil asked ‘who would you buy’? It’s one thing having all these grand ideas but it’s another implementing them. Players have more say than people give credit. Do you think FSG are looking at Borini and thinking what a great attitude he has. No, they’re thinking ‘if only he hadn’t said no to Sunderland and QPR, the bastard’.
One other point on Suarez. Like everyone I’ve been trying to think why it is we’re doing badly. It’s obviously the lack of strikers but I think there is another reason that is bigger than people think. I wouldn’t say Suarez is a leader but he has qualities that changed the course of last season. He’s desperate to win. Others are too but it can be read in different ways. What Suarez has is a vulnerability about his desire to win. He wasn’t the competitive public school boy type who had everything and just wanted to be the best, he was a more tragic yet extremely likeable figure. It felt like he had to succeed or he’d fall apart. It’s easy to buy into it. Easy to want him to succeed. I played with players who wore their heart on their sleeve. I was never bullied into giving my all by them, I wanted to give it. I’d had been embarrassed to give anything less in front of them. What I’m trying to get across is team spirit can’t always be got by going paint balling together. When there’s empathy in the team rather than ego’s then it happens. Suarez evoked it.
There’s no one in the team like that now. In fact, it’s a team of mice. There’s not even a leader. It’s coming to something when Henderson is probably by far the closest to it. Who else even talks on the pitch? Mignolet? Skrtel? Lovren? Johnson? The new full backs? Gerrard? Allen? Coutinho? Lallana? Mario? Markovic? Can? Sterling? Apologies, I think you get my point though. How many times this season have you heard ‘it’s flat’? How many times have you heard there’s no spark? They’re cliches for a reason. You need a spark for combustion. No spark then you just misfire regardless of how good you are as players. Players need that lift and Suarez was the catalyst. For me personally, I got to the point when winning wasn’t about the club winning it was about Suarez winning. If the team lost then I felt they’d let him down. His enthusiasm was that infectious. I think the enthusiasm of Lucas would be better for the team than a vacant Gerrard. With no natural leader on the pitch players are looking to him and I don’t think he’s inspiring them. Toure for the same reason. Much has been made of this ‘spine’ of the team and it’s true. We need more fight in there.
Sorry, this is about transfers isn’t it. Who is going out to talk to these players? Who is selling the club to potential recruits. Players are human and it’s a big think to move club. Players need an arm around them, let me them know its all gonna be ok. Genuine warmth, not sound bytes and sun tans. I don’t know who does it but if it’s Ayre who speaks to the player then he’s the wrong man. What about Kenny? He could do it.
Spot on about Suarez, he set the tone on the pitch. Couple of points:
1. Suarez going on hunger strike would be not bad thing.
2. No-one exemplified Liverpool more than Suarez last season – he was team spirit.
3. Raheem really misses him. He’s no longer playing with a smile on his face.
4. We miss his energy and dynamism: it was contagious.
Not convinced having a starving cannibal in the dressing room would be good for team morale.
The players just seem laboured to me. There seems to be a malaise. I wonder whether it stems from the captain.
Well he isn’t helping. The team’s crying out for a leader and an organiser. Gerrard’s neither. His head goes down too easily. Didn’t matter so much when the team had big personalities like Pepe, Carra and Suarez. Does now.
Others have come in on more wages who aren’t as good. Damn right there’s malaise. Sterling had a few good months and all they’re seeing is him getting £100k a week.
The club needs a breath of fresh air, and that means clearing out one of the club’s greatest players and his mates. Clinging to the past doesn’t work. None of the successful managers put up with it.
It’s time for the manager to manage. Time will tell whether he’s up to it. I suspect not.
Agreed, there’s no place for sentiment in top flight football. Never has been really. Bob was ruthless, Kenny was initially ruthless, even Bill was eventually. Sadly, us Scousers are a sentimental bunch…..
team spirit or teen spirit?
:-o
Excellent analysis of the situation again as usual Robin.
Thanks Kevin
Very good post again Robin.
Thought it was obvious Suarez was going. As I said before, we clearly told him to give us one more year and go to his dream club, not someone like Arsenal. And give him an extra few quid into the bargain. And fuck me was it worth it. He was the leader. Not only the best player on the park but the hardest working. He had more desire than everyone else. Through his sheer will we played better. A lot of similarities with Roy Keane at his peak.
Unfortunately our first third of the season without him says an awful lot about the lack of leadership from Gerrard and Rodgers, but especially the captain. We have literally no leader on the pitch. When we go behind, his is the first head to go down. And it’s happened at other points in his career as well. His body language has infuriated me more than Balotelli’s. We all remember his moronically public reaction when Rafa took off Torres.
Apart from a top class/good mobile striker, out next buy should be a leader in the next window. It doesn’t matter where he plays. Right back, goalkeeper (Lloris!), if need be. And not someone who just screams and shouts with zero affect, a la Lovren.
Roy Keane is one of my favourite players Chris. I don’t care about him being Utd. I want to see players give 100% every minute of every game. It’s not a lot to ask bearing in my how many minutes they do for their wage. I also like people who are straight talking. You don’t need to work out what he’s trying to say in a veiled way. He comes out and says whatever he likes. What I was alluding to in my post was that Roy Keane and others would get the best out of you because you knew if you didn’t you’d be getting a dig in the dressing room. Suarez was different. Knowing how I feel I’d guess players wanted to give their best for him to help him. He had that vulnerability. Tough background. Very quiet and humble off the pitch but a little bit possessed on it to the extent it was almost like an illness that he didn’t really want. God, I miss him so much it makes me wanna cry.
We don’t need to look to United for inspiration. We had a player who exemplified all those qualities and more: Graeme Souness. Same personality as Keane on the pitch but twice the player.
Twice the player for sure. Never really warmed to him though as a man. Not just the paper interview. I remember seeing him in Boys From the Blackstuff when I was a kid and I felt then he was a bit rude to our Suarez, Yosser.
Aye, but that was fiction Robin…it was good of him to appear in it.
Oh yeah, haha, I didn’t consider that.
If we didn’t know Suarez was going before the Chelsea game we, and everyone at the club, should have known after the Palace game. He was distraught for a reason: he knew he was leaving but wanted to leave with the club having won the league.
totally the wrong way to look at this summer’s transfers, like some amorphous blob. We had 2 groups. some young players and some 1st team players. The young players look good (markovic excepted) and should help us going forwards, the 1st team players not so much.
Lovren and Lallana were clearly BR’s picks and are shite and just ok. Balo clearly wasn’t BRs choice (so why did he complement him in the US and then have to deny wanting him) but why not play to his strengths now that he’s there? Chucking away our season to make a point is pretty dumb.
Biggest complaint is for 1st team signings you have to understand the way they played and were successful, and then see if that suits the way you play. Lallana achieved in a free roll. Can we play him like that? If we’re not going to then we shouldn’t have bought him. Lambert isn’t a target man so why play him like that?
Seems BR is very confused about how to play the team now with the 1 forward. It also doesn’t seem to make sense to the players. his subs aren’t working either. It will cost him his job.
The one time his sub had an effect was against Hull. Coutinho came on and attacked down the wing and he did everything you would want but Balo was just too shit to finish the chances.
Other than that I’ve not seen subs/change in games work at all for BR. That’s not a good sign. His initial setups didn’t work and the changes he made didn’t work. IE he’s not very good!
The way some players are alienated or left out and others get a start no matter what raises many questions too. Familiarity , settling in only goes so far and then you have to try doing things differently. BR isn’t doing that.
Coutinho did pretty well from the bench against QPR too. But Rodgers does seem to have lost his mojo.
You shouldn’t use Rodgers talking Balotellii as a stick to beat him with. It’s what the late, great Bob called giving him some toffee. It’s meaningless, just talk. When the important question was put to him he was absolutely clear. Categorical even :-)
oh, I get that Paul.
It was before we signed him on pre-season. BR complemented him in a presser (was it after the AC Milan game?) and then the next presser he had to come out and say we wouldn’t be signing him.
So what was that all about? You don’t mention other team’s players for no reason. Was Balo being forced on him and he did it cos he knew if he complemented him speculation would start and then he could flat out say we weren’t getting him to pressure the club? Bizarre, I’m not really into conspiracy theories but what the hell was Rodgers up to?
What’s worse is Balo fits the “someone behind the main striker” type of person, which tends to suggest they didn’t think about getting an alternative to Sturridge at all. Now that’s just incompetence with his injury record.
IF we didn’t have good options then we should have gone for another young striker, a berahino type. I wonder if we were in for another one if Borini and Assaidi had left ie cash came in. And who was it? questions questions.
His subs don’t work because he generally substitutes like for like. If Allen is not playing well (which is usually a gimmee) Rodgers replaces him with another Allen.
to me he seems to switch to Lambert up front with Gerrard’s hollywood balls aimed at him, late in the game. Ie it is different but it’s lame. Lambert isn’t a target man.
I happen to believe that this squad, used correctly (which is unlikely right now ) can salvage this season quite quickly. There are answers to our defensive frailty already at the club as we saw in Spain ( bar the keeper who is beyond redemption unless and until he is coached properly) but a team selected with a lack of tactical awareness and – in my opinion – a touch of spite, will continue to disintegrate.
Agreed, there should be enough in the squad to finish in the top 4.
Who would you play as your striker?
exactly.
Johnny can I ask you, and I’m not being smart, what do you feel are Balotelli’s strengths??
regards Gutmanns comment about the Chief Scout being the 3rd man – have we not got that now, hasnt BR built the scouting guys in his image so is that not already in place for BR??.
Regards is BR too busy – he still has to sell it not just an MD or a DOF, he has to sway the player over how he fits, what the team can do etc – and that shouldnt be a 5 min call should it?
Enjoyable pod with plenty of good analysis, with some great interventions by Neil.
Have to take issue with some of the analysis. Biggest problem for me was Rob’s assessment of Daddy Pig. Very harsh. Most of us dads have a bit of Daddy Pig about us. He is an archetypal hopeless but loving dad. Would you call Homer Simpson a c***?
On the transfers, we have to keep in mind that we are viewing this with hindsight and through the filter of a very disappointing start to the season. If the analysis was widened to the whole team, not just those brought in this summer, pretty much every player in a team that finished second last time out would be getting poor scores.
I was generally happy with the transfer business that was done before a ball was kicked in the Premier League, but clearly that business doesn’t look so good now. That could all change again with a general pick up in the team’s form.
I understand the clamour for marquee signings, but maybe Liverpool just aren’t quite yet in the position to reliably land the very best players yet. Sanchez was a target, but clearly he preferred to go to Arsenal. Costa and Fabregas would have been great, but Costa was tied up long ago and there is nothing to suggest we would have had the edge over Chelsea if we had gone for Fabregas.
Are people really saying that we should pay a premium above the wages rivals who have enjoyed consistent CL football would offer? That way lies disaster. Best case is the player proves to be a good buy, but you are then faced with general wage inflation where you can’t hold down the contracts for other players. On the other hand, if the player doesn’t prove to be the player you needed, you can’t shift them because they are sitting pretty on huge wages and you are faced with loaning them out or writing off a big chunk of the transfer fee to shift them.
I don’t want to debate ratings handed out to each of the signings, but I would just say that I am very happy with the signing of the two young Spanish full backs. Moreno is clearly an upgrade on what we had and we got him at a good price. I saw plenty of comments over the summer with fans screaming for Ian Ayre just to pay 20 mill and get the deal done. And how can anyone have any concerns about Manquillo? It’s a cheap risk free deal and for someone with such limited top flight experience he has done very well. He wasn’t brought in to be first choice RB.
Really good post Graeme, how much would you guys be giving Raheem or Henderson given the way the team is playing at the moment, 4/10? I am with you on the Spanish fullbacks too. I reckon Manquillo looks class for someone with his experience and although he hasn’t really clicked into gear going forwards (but then who has?) he has made some telling contributions late on in games when he has got himself into the box. Bet you we are fending off Madrid for him in 4 years time.
As for paying over the odds to land the big name stars, we can see how it works out for ManU as they demonstrated just how much you need to pay to get players who don’t really want to come. It is still early to tell and it would help if they bought some defenders but I honestly can’t see it ending well for them. Mourinho made a comment when Chelsea gave up in the race to land Luke Shaw, which I kind of thought was a little sour grapes at the time but is now looking pretty accurate, that signing a young player like that for those wages would kill the club (not to mention the player). The thing above all else that was our biggest strength last year, except perhaps our strike force, was our team spirit. Start paying over the odds for players and wages and I reckon Mourinho is right.
That said, Ian Ayre needs to take his fair share of the blame in my opinion. He even had the balls to come out and boast how we didn’t sign Dempsey despite the fact we desperately needed someone up top for the start of that season. How he managed not to sign Salah and Knopol…(how do you spell it again?) I still don’t quite understand either. We need someone who can make the right connections and know how to scratch the right backs to make things happen and Ayre just seems a long way from that (fair play on the Moreno deal though).
On the team in general, I reckon this is bad as it is going to get this season, with Sturridge back (please God let him stay fit) we will finally have a focal point and everyone can start to work off that. Every game I see little improvements in Balotelli’s performance that suggest to me he might get there in the end, although it is all happening pretty slowly so he may run out of time. Reckon Lovren needs dropping in favour of Sakho, promptly. Maybe he will come good, he should at least come better but I think he needs his 20 mil price tag essentially written off and work his way back into the team when everyone has forgotten about him. Usually a fan of Rodgers’ man management but reckon he really ballsed this one up, dropped the full weight of the shirt down on him from a high height by coming out in the press and saying he was the defensive saviour we were looking for. Also on that note, don’t think he has handled Balotelli all that well. Sure he needed to remould his attitude but in the process he has killed his confidence, which is Balotelli’s greatest strength.
Reckon Rodgers’ will learn from these mistakes though, still can’t fathom all the talk of him going (admittedly in the future tense) at this stage in the season though, especially when he is young and has a lot to learn about the way to manage the club through the demands of the Champions league. Sack him before the end of next season and our transformation into Tottenham is complete.
I also wanted to say that we as supporters are completely hypocritical when it comes to transfers. We all know this of course but then forget when it comes to complaining.
When we were signing lallana all I heard was what does an extra couple of million mean, just get the deal done, and afterwards people are using his price tag to claim that he is our marquee signing. He clearly wasn’t, he like lambert were brought in to offer something different that we lacked last season, when teams were camped on the edge of our box, a poor mans David silva if you will. The only problem is that we have forgotten how to do what we were good at last season, or can’t now that sturridge is injured.
Spot on about Lallana. I made the same comparison myself on another blog. Slower though.
ouch – the sturridge news.
I don’t think Lovren will ever be very good – will never be an Agger or Carra or anyone else, but BRs methods are also hurting him.
This front footed defending, be “aggressive” is causing the problems cos he doesn’t have the judgement. BR is insisting on it whereas defenders have to wait, judge, cover spaces and only step out in certain circumstances. BR wants something else and it’s hurting our defending badly. Whoever he bought would make these mistakes cos he’s demanding they do that – except perhaps for Lovren ignoring the spaces on his outside, why does he do that?
BR doesn’t get defending or defensive midfielding and that’s why those problems are there and will limit our progress. The striker thing is still what’s killing us though.
Yeah, I’m pleased with Manquillo. He’s done really well given his lack of competitive experience.
If Rodgers does get the boot I’ve a feeling it’ll have as much to do with politics as results. Sadly.
The coach is absolutely dispensable in American sporting franchises, he’s much lower on the food chain than his UK equivalent. I’m not sure FSG have grasped that fundamental difference yet, hence the battle of wills/crossed lines.
Bad news. Sturridge has pulled up injured again. Rodgers’ criticism of the England setup is looking more and more foolish by the day. We seem to be managing his recovery appallingly.
I don’t have much sympathy for Rodgers at the min. Everyone knew Sturridge would be injured a coupla times this season yet we failed to bring in ONE adequate replacement. Keep in mind that every striker at the club has been brought in by the current regime and yet the only one good enough is Sturridge. I’m sure Rodgers will continue to persist with Balo up front on his own which clearly doesn’t work.
It’s hard to take. A few minutes ago I was cursing Roy Hodgson but I think I’m looking for a scapegoat. I don’t wanna start panicking (although I’m in a complete panic) but Sturridge said something this week that maybe his injury was hereditary. At the time I dismissed it but now I’m wondering what he meant. What does he know for him to come out and make that public? My heads gone a little bit and I’m probably acting irrationally but I’m worried we’re never gonna get more than half a season from him again. We’re completely fucked now. I’m having a conversation with a few mates on FB and one of them is saying some of it is in his head and he needs to just get out there and play. Surely that can’t be right. I’m just praying this is a blag by the 2 Tony’s to get more people to subscribe to the Times online. Hopefully tomorrows scan will paint a different story.
Don’t go down that road Robin, it’s not the player’s fault. All his injuries have been verified by the club’s medics. He’s clearly vulnerable and needs a tailored training and rehab programme. We’re all desperate for him to come back but he needs careful handling. I just hope that the club haven’t been rushing him back to save Brendan’s bacon, hence the relapse. I’m sure they haven’t. The medics must have final say.
It is hard to take, and though I doubt his injuries are hereditary, he’s clearly prone to muscle strains. He’ll have good years and bad years but one things for sure: we need quality cover.
For fuck’s sake
Having listened to podcast in full I’m a bit confused about the whole “numbers thing”.
At one stage there’s a suggestion we should have signed 3-4 older players to supplement the “kids” we’ve signed. At another stage we should have kept Suarez (NEVER an option) and still signed most of the same players or replaced Suarez with a Di Maria to supplement the promising players. And finally a suggestion from Rob that we haven’t spent the Suarez money and that money’s burning a hole in the FSG pocket.
This summer we spent 120m and recouped about 70m – a net layout of 50m. Yes we have Champions League money this year but we’ve also been operating at a loss of between 40-50m a season for the last three years and we’re under FFP investigation. That loss doesn’t disappear overnight – the CL money just about covers it this season. There is no missing money. We’re spent out. And capital injections above and beyond what has been spent would see us fail future FFP strictures.
There seems to be a general agreement that we were running on fumes last season with an extremely thin squad lucky to avoid many injuries (a Henderson sending off scuppered us) hence we had to spend to increase the size of the squad with many essential areas needing buys (a centreback and both fullback positions for instance were considered minimum requirements).
So if you decide we should have spent the 120m on 3-4 players you also have to decide who wouldn’t have been bought and would the squad have coped with just that number of additions because 4 additions minus Agger and Suarez looks thin as can be still.
@RushianLFC
It’s a fair point. In hindsight, haha, I also wish we’d bought four £30m players (even though I’m not convinced we could have enticed them). My feeling was the squad could have been boosted by the likes of Wisdom, Ibe, Suso and Flanagan when fit. We saw last year what someone like Flanagan brings to the squad. There are certainly 3 possibly 4 players out on loan who could offer the same level as the likes of Markovic and Can this season.
P.s I think the club were willing to spend a bit more than they did. My guess comes from the players we seemed to be courting near the end of the window. They were £30m players minimum but we didn’t secure any and had to pay £16m for Mario. So, you have to deduce there was certainly another £15m to spend. Four £30m players, One £15m players and a few of the loans back. I think it would have worked. I think the squad would be better.
Maybe that was conditional on Borini going.
Apart from Sanchez, and Sachin now mentioning Fabregas I don’t really hear anyone naming who these 30 mil players actually are. All the top draw seem to be more than ever gravitating to Real, Barca, Bayern and to a lesser extend Chelsea. Also, 30 mil for Costa was an absolute steal, doubt with our negotiating team we would get anywhere near that price for him.
We were linked to a few of the top strikers. Liverpool clearly wanted a striker, that’s beyond doubt. That doesn’t mean any given newspaper speculation was true but it’s not a huge leap of faith to presume we did approach some of those linked. Certainly Falcao and Lavezzi, possibly Cavani and Higuain. When they bombed us off we cast the net further and lower down our pecking order and got Balotelli.
I’ve seen RushianLFC on Twitter and he talks sense but I’m not convinced his figures are correct (based on a whim rather than facts). The £50m losses in previous seasons can be explained. They’re not recurring costs, more one off payments – the obvious one being the loan to pay off the stadium development costs. If you bear in mind the club spent £40m net on transfers in the last accounting period roughly the same as this summer then there’s plenty of extra money to go on top on the books. The doubling of the league money probably brought in £35m+ extra, the increased revenue from commercial deals which stood at a £20m increase in the last accounting period has definitely increased again. Depending on what the financial period entails for this season then the Champions League money is also an extra £25m+. Either way, the increased revenue over the reasons for the historic losses suggest we’re not on the borderline as much as has been suggested. I’m fully convinced we could have spent £150 gross this summer. FSG won’t sanction money though if we can’t get one of our decent targets so not spending doesn’t mean we didn’t have it. So, to summarise, I think there was a little extra available but we couldn’t spend it wisely enough so didn’t bother. I’m sure the Borini money was ear marked as potential revenue but I don’t think him staying affected our pursuit of a striker. We just couldn’t convince one to join us on the wages we offered, or our location or our current position.
I honestly don’t think we have increased revenues that much Robin – if it’s one thing the last fifteen years has taught us (the period where the increase in football finances has mirrored the increase in football fans talking about the game and finances online) we as fans consistently overestimate the revenues brought in and underestimate the costs occurred by the club.
One classic example of this is no one ever seems to take account of the frequent costs incurred in paying up contracts/parts of contracts/bonuses etc to get players to leave. Always absent from the Net/Gross calculations. We then wonder why we’ve lost money as a club when the financial results come out.
Costa was always going to be a Chelsea player as was Matic – check out the David Conn story investigation in the Guardian on Chelsea’s links to player investment funds and superagents e.g.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/30/chelsea-links-third-party-ownership
Wow that was a painful read, confirmed why I don’t work as an accountant ;) At the end of the day he didn’t really uncover anything very incriminating, which is not surprising, but it does give you a bit of taste for how these things probably get done.
I actually had something about this in my previous post but took it out, but I would be surprised if the headline figures that Chelsea are announcing tell half the story of how much, and probably more importantly, who is getting paid. It could be me being a little prejudiced but something about an organization being run by a Russian oligarch who robbed his countrymen blind makes me think that they wouldn’t be averse to getting creative when it comes to circumventing FFP.
what a terrible podcast. a bunch of scousers locked in a tower saying how they would run the world at lfc. Utter garbage.
We didn’t try for this, we could have done that, what utter bull crap. Probably the worst podcast I’ve ever heard, navel gazing garbage almost worse than general punditry in the mejia.
Note to panel. It’s not tescos, you cant just get who you want. No, we’re not going to pay stupid wages and with good reason. Those new contributor(s) are just terrible. just go away.
You treat the signings as one blob as if they’re all equal. We had two sets of signings. One young set, and they don’t really matter. We paid high release clauses and they all look promising and some are ready for the here and now, fit in with FSG’s long term plan buying quality young at wage levels that we can afford for them not to all work out, ie they can be shifted.
And one senior set and they really do matter. And clearly BR has the big say on that buying Lovren and Lallana and saying Balo was all that was available – tell that to Soton and WHU.
The thing is you apply zero responsibility on BR who is the biggest culprit of the lot. Plays 1 up top but doesn’t know how to support that lone striker. Won’t play to Balo’s strengths leaving us toothless.
Clearly has a terrible eye for players. You can see the committee dig out the young signings and he’s chosen the senior guys. Lovren is a disaster of a purchase, Lallana is pretty but a bit lightweight it seems and Balo just isn’t this kind of forward.
There’s no looking for value FSG style, they’re over priced mature players with no higher ceiling. ie they are not FSG signings, they are BRs and they’re very poor choices.
BR has become the problem and you lot waffle on about him not having the pick of players or we didn’t try hard enough to sign top players. just utter codswallop. terrible podcast.
One day you will criticize BR cos he really deserves it. You lot just won’t see it.
What has whether people involved are Scouse (or not) got to do with it? Also, you criticise the lads who have given up their time to produce a free show for saying how they would ‘run the world’ at LFC then criticise and tell everyone how you would ‘run the world’ at TAW? If it’s ‘utter garbage’ don’t listen. Even better, make your own podcast, would love a listen. Also, there’s plenty of criticism of Brendan Rodgers – on other TAW shows, on the site. If you choose to ignore that, generalise and lash out a load of conjecture presented as fact then guess what I think of it? Utter garbage, mate.
Yours, You Lot.
I’m also not Scouse. Wish I was, mind.
so I’m supposed to know what the podcast is going to say before I listen to it am I?
It was a poor podcast with a lot of rubbish. Most of them aren’t that way. This one and the last one was absolutely terrible. Poor analysis, sweeping statements just chiming with other whinging fans.
The rest of what you say is just nonsense.
The idea that a podcast by LFC fans for LFC fans discussing LFC signings, future LFC targets and the overall LFC recruitment strategy can be “terrible” is amusing.
Criticise their opinions if you disagree. I’ve done so in the recent past – I thought too many of the lads were far too positive in the first 4-6 weeks of the season. I’ve also thought some were and Rob still is too reluctant to see and be honest about the 2014 version of Steven Gerrard.
But I’ve never said they any TAW has been “utter garbage” or the “worst podcast I’ve ever heard.” If anyone compared how these shows are structured & produced along with things like sound quality, with many other podcasts out there (some of them Liverpool ones) then they’d know that opinion is so far wide of the mark it’s untrue.
“Those new contributor(s) are just terrible. just go away.”
The last part genuinely made me smile.
“Note to panel. It’s not tescos, you cant just get who you want.”
“BR has become the problem and you lot waffle on about him not having the pick of players”
Lovely wee contradiction there too.
And finally….
“One day you will criticize BR cos he really deserves it. You lot just won’t see it.”
How will they criticise him if they can’t see it?
Ha. Let’s put this down to serious frustration with our season to date, Sturridge’s new injury and 4 or 5 beers too many.
Hold the back page!
Listener traumatised by Liverpool podcast about Liverpool hosted by Scousers (and Sach)!
The listener, whose name has been withheld, told this reporter ‘I feel violated, it was as though they were in my home’. Local police officers have advised caution, ‘if a rogue podcast should knock on your door, always ask for ID.’ The elderly are thought to be particularly vulnerable to this plague of Scouse podcasts.
ok, ok, I went totally over the top there. Thanks for pointing it out in a humorous way.
Sorry guys [and readers] didn’t mean to be disrespectful about your efforts so could have put it in a much better way than I did.
I maintain that this and the last Drifters podcast were not great so far as content goes even if I was a douche bag about how i went about saying it [SORRY BOYS!].
The analysis just didn’t hit the subject right, you kind of talked about each signing as if they all were supposed to contribute at the same level which if they were then the committee really hasn’t got a clue.
There were definitely players signed as starters and players who wouldn’t mind not starting each game and for me it’s those starters that are key and where we went badly wrong. The striker mainly though Lovren should never have been bought – and that was predictable. Annoyingly, Schneiderlin and Clyne were Soton’s best players for me.
I don’t subscribe to this idea that we didn’t try hard enough with targets – unless you have inside information which I doubt. I don’t believe Arsenal are paying Sanchez more than we would. I don’t believe it was about money – though I can’t know for sure.
There’s no evidence of it but it was stated at length as if it were a truth. It’s just easy to say. The big mistake was not getting a striker – that one signing and we’re sitting pretty right now. The club did better this summer than before, but still a lesson to be learned.
There’s also this thing about the diamond that everyone around the globe is going on about. The thing that is missing is support for the lone striker.
That doesn’t have to be a diamond. Lone striker setups are a thing but the 3 behind have to do a lot more work than our guys did / do, we just don’t seem to know how to do it – BR doesn’t and the players don’t. It isn’t just about going back to a diamond.
Incredibly, woy did a great job with our boys vs Scotland. Triangles down the channel and Lallana taking the ball to the line and cutting back -> goal!! BR doesn’t seem to beable to get any of that movement. Triangles aren’t a new thing. Attacking the wide channel isn’t a new thing. Cut backs aren’t new etc etc.
Gerrard – if the play is force forwards to the opposition final third – like last year, then gerrard has time and space to give awesome deliveries. that pressure up front also gives us the free kicks and penalties that he’s so lethal with too.
Without the front stuff happening, the ball comes back to a crowded centre of the pitch, Gerrard has to actually DM and it comes apart. So that’s when he looks bad. BR has to get the lone striker thing working to give him his role back. Otherwise he has to be sat and used as an impact sub up front.
Chelsea goal – Johnson was jogging back because the numbers shouldnt have required him to get back. Yes he should go and help but he’s up and down the whole game, he’s an incredible athlete. They had Azpi and Costa and they scored. We had 2 players in the box. It wasn’t Johnson’s fault they scored.
about GJ generally, BRs lack of defensive nous is making GJ worse than he is. Bet he does a reasonable job elsewhere simply because other managers will tell him defending is more important than attacking.
1st Chelsea goal – brilliant work by Mourinho exposed BRs defensive ethos totally. Think you lot missed this completely.
We have GJ, Lovren, Skrtel zonal marking from front to back post on the corner (centrally spread between the sticks) while Chelsea overloaded the back post on the edge of the 6 yard box.
Corner comes in, Terry has stepped out to about 12 yards and gets a free header to the back post from Oscar’s flick on.
This is too far for defenders to get to Terry cos he moves out late but because of BRs techniques, Lovren and Skrtel go flying out to try and intercept.
Migs saves but that bunch of blue shirts hanging around at the back are unchallenged and Cahill gets 2 attempts and scores.
Mourinho’s tactics and BRs stupidity when it comes to “front footed” and “aggressive” defending and THAT is what is causing a lot of our problems.
So that’s just some examples where I think the podcasts were missing it. Just my opinion and I do appreciate these podcasts !!
Can any of you who think Rodgers just needs time tell me of any games he’s turned around by tactical genius? I can recall several where he didn’t.
Many managers have poor squads and make the best of them by judicious tactics. I don’t think Rodgers is capable of that. Fun is made of Moyes on these threads, but he made a good fist of shit squads for years. Rodgers is the classic example of the ‘he rose without trace’ class of self-advertiser.
I can’t but what I’d ask you is – if you don’t want him to stay then who would you replace him with over the next few weeks and what effect do you think that would have on our chances of top 4 this season?
I believe just about any experienced manager could resurrect the season. It’s not as if Rodgers has just struck a sticky patch – blaming the loss of Suarez is a cop out. Several times last season we let a 2-0 lead slip away, and at the tailend of the season lost a 3-0 lead. The season was thrilling, undeniably, but my view was then and now that the performances owed nothing to Rodgers, they just happened. He didn’t abandon his tikka takka, it was wrested from him by a genius who never let the opposition rest and carried Sturridge and Sterling with him. But all the tine we were leaking goals and conceding from set pieces, and that has been the case ever since. It stuck out like dogs balls that a quality CL attack would destroy us, and yet nothing was done about it. Whenever we were said to be looking at players they were all ‘exciting wingers’, as if our defence was sound.
I haven’t answered your question because I don’t know the answer. Well, I do… It’s Rafa, he would NEVER have gone to Madruf hoping for a respectable loss. I’m
Not a mad Rafa fan, but the is tactically sound, and doesn’t talk shite in front of a morgue.
I’m a Wizard and Hotspur kind of fan – I think you can bring on David Fairclough and score 5 goals , but I’ll
never think or see that under Rodgers.
Who would you like to see in charge Kevin?
Morgue should have been mirror, but it may be an apposite word for Anfield come Christmas. I’d love to be wrong, though!!
To be honest Kev, I’m not that bothered about personality. I thought Ferguson was an appalling man but he was a great manager. I used to think Mourinho was funny but since he’s come back I find him boring and predictable. I can’t argue with his managerial skills though. I liked Steve Clarke but how good was he as a manager? The problem for me is whenever getting rid of Rodgers is mentioned the solutions offered are unrealistic. Personally, I think he deserves until the end of the season at least. A change mid season wouldn’t be beneficial, fair or sensible.
Agree with the latter half of your post but not the former, Robin. I wouldn’t want Mourinho anywhere near my club despite his achievements. He’s clearly a very good manager but he’s a toxic cheat and a bore. Not a good combination.
Ferguson was an affront to football, but manageable. But I don’t understand why success is increasingly associated with twattery. Carlo’s both a great manager (Chris , no need to re-open the Carlo v Jose argument – they’re both very good….) and a good guy as was the greatest of them all, the late, lamented Bob. Hitzfeld was both humble and successful. Don’t buy into the great myth of modern capitalism: nice guys can be winners, narcissists serve only themselves.
The point was only that I couldn’t care less about personality if someone is a good manager.
Seems to me that whenever there is mention of getting rid of Rodgers (or Kenny or the Owl), mention of Rafa is not far behind.
And those very same people are the ones who have ensured it will never happen. No owners would concede to that cult as I’m sure they will have seen the divide & damage that they have done to the support of this great club.
I agree about personality being irrelevant; Clough was an arsehole but a great manager. And you have to have an ego to be an EPL manager. But BRs ego is built on sand, in my view, he has no substance.
Steve Clarke would probably right the ship, given his defensive credentials, but maybe not a great manager. Kenny’s second coming wasn’t great, but we still believed we could beat anybody then. Now we are nervous about Palace…
Aye, but credit where credit’s due: Clough did deck Roy Keane. That’s got to be factored into any ranking system!
I can’t help getting the impression that you don’t like Brendan Rodgers there Kevin.
Oh dear! I thought I’d concealed it…
I have said before that I can’t be objective about him – I think he’s an affront to our club. There is no dignity in him. When considering fine men who were great managers, we are the club of of Bob Paisley…
By the way, does anybody expect Rooney to be knighted when he passes Charlton’s England goal totals? He plays for the club of Royal Appointments.
When Nixon asked the then Chinese leader, Chou En Lai, whether he thought the French revolution had been a success, it’s reported the old communist replied: “It’s too early to tell.”
Apocryphal or otherwise, it might be worth keeping this in mind when passing judgment on Rodgers’ recent signings. The history has not yet been written. We can all form opinions on what we’ve seen so far – and admittedly it isn’t pretty (mostly) – but nothing is certain as of now, and anyone talking like it is should be ignored. How many examples from the past do we need of players who start slowly in this league but go on to blossom into not just good players, but outstanding ones? Thierry Henry, anyone?
And the comparisons with Chelsea are facile. We may have finished above them last year, but any hot prospect transfer target looking at the bigger picture sees a club with the most consistent Champions League performances of the last 10 years (in terms of quarter and semi-final appearances), with a UEFA ranking of 4th, and us, qualifying for the first time in 6 years and a mere 39 places behind Chelsea in the rankings. They see Mourinho, rated the best manager/coach in the world by many, and a bright, young British manager trying to make his way. And yes, like it or not, they see London, one of the biggest and best cities in the world and are excited at the prospect of living and working there. It’s not Brendan’s fault Liverpool isn’t in W1 – and thank fuck it isn’t, by the way. In short, until we are consistently making CL every year, we are always going to struggle to secure the services of the elite players and no amount of tracking and inquiring by Rodgers and the transfer committee will change that. Of course money is a factor, but it’s not the only one.
Consider Marco Reus. LFC have been interested for what seems like eons. Next summer, some lucky bastard is going to get – for my money – one of the best midfielders in the world for 25mill quid buyout. Probably half of what he’s worth. LFC could pay that easily, and for a player of his quality we’d probably do what’s necessary wage wise. Let’s assume we qualify for CL again this season. Why is it that I can think of 10 teams that are more likely to get Reus than we are, and that’s without even trying? I can think of 4 in England, ffs. Brendan can offer to blow him every time he scores and it still won’t snag us that player. “We could have tried harder to get Sanchez”. Really? Firstly, how the feck do you know? Secondly, how do you know Sanchez didn’t just say to Rodgers “no dice”? Do we want our manager running around after these players like a scorned girlfriend even when they’ve indicated LFC is not on their radar?
Like I say, it’s hardly been one unmitigated success after the other (so far), but a dose of realism as far as transfer targets are concerned wouldn’t go amiss, and we could try a little patience in respect of Lallana, Markovic, Manquillo and others.
The problem is mate, humans are greedy. Man City finished 16th, 15th, 9th then 10th in successive seasons then bought a load of top players on the back of it. I’m sure you’ll argue their case is different but the proof is there – money can get you what you want. Some people feel we’re in a position where we need some top players.
That’s true, but it requires spending at astronomical levels. After they got the sheikh in, City went three years between 08/09 and 10/11 with a net spend of over 100mill quid each season. In the 4 seasons since then, they’ve spent a combined 176m net, still a good 30m more than us. Where do people expect us to find that sort of money, especially when we’re in the midst of a ground redevelopment?
I don’t think the ground redevelopment makes much difference. I don’t expect it to impact on our spending. The money will be borrowed but it certainly won’t come in at over £100m for the main stand. Let’s say there’s a fair few corporate seats so the revenue per seat is around £70. If we allow for empty seats and say there are 20 games per season then those 10k seats will bring in £14m per season. Then one would expect Henry to sell some naming rights reducing the cost dramatically. Obviously those figures aren’t accurate but it’s easy to see how it’ll be manageable over 6 or 7 years.
Appreciate City had a project that was easy to sell to players but top players have gone to Anzhi, Monaco and PSG. No ambition there, just hard cash. I’ve lived in Paris and Monaco and admittedly they’re both brilliant places to live but Anzhi probably isn’t that good. We shouldn’t give players too much respect, they’re greedy and self indulgent. The difference between 80k a week and 250k a week is about £10m per year. A hell of a lot of money but if 2 players of that calibre can get you in the top 4 then it’s worth considering. Getting out of the CL group will be worth £40m+ next year plus about £8m in gate revenues, It’s worth investing to achieve it.
The thing is Brownie, I know all the above is highly speculative and money isn’t infinite and there’s FFP but whether we can buy some top players is a choice. We’d have to change our strategy. I think my stance is fairly similar to yours regarding FSG but after £120m gross our squad doesn’t look good enough for top 4. We’ve got 1 important player out and the result is we’re 11th (sorry, that’s off the top of my head, I’ve stopped looking at the table). What does that tell you? Outside of top 4 is not an option for FSG, it’s not an option for the fans and it’s not an option for the club. We have to re-evaluate.
Anzhi have recruited a fair few ‘stars’ who are past their sell-by-date. Barring possibly Hulk, I can’t think of too many they got who were also wanted by Europe’s elite (Barca, etc.). PSG are in the same mould as City – they have a sugar daddy. Monaco it’s true is all about the hard cash. But even if we matched one of their astronomical wage offers, a player is still going to trouser an additional 50% or so for tax reasons. Look, I’m not saying we can’t occasionally compete for the very best talent out there, but we are not coming from a position of strength like most of our competitors. Doing a City without the benefit of an Arab billionaire funding your buying policy is reckless in the extreme. The brutal truth is that if I were a Sanchez given a choice between Arsenal or Liverpool back in July, I’d have gone for Arsenal too. Like I say, there is plenty to criticize Rodgers for without us having to load up the stuff he can’t do anything about.
Also, the consensus at close of transfer window time seemed to be that LFC had bought pretty well. I don’t remember too many complaints then about the additions of Lallana. Moreno, etc. Even Lambert was touted as good business given the relatively small outlay and his assist and goal-scoring record in recent seasons. There may still have been some murmurings about needing another striker, but then Rodgers would point to the unfortunate episode with Remy in mitigation.
It strikes me that there’s a degree of historical rewriting happening to fit today’s narrative, and not just on transfers but lots of things. A bit like the person up top who tells us that Gerrard has been on many occasions throughout his career the first person to let his head drop in the face of adversity (I must have imagined all those games he dragged us back into the reckoning single-handed). Tell that to the fan of any other club and they’d think you’ve gone mad. But as Gerrard – along with the rest of the team – is struggling a bit right now, people feel entitled to make up any old shit to bolster their point. It’s complete bollocks.
I accept all that but the bottom line remains the same, if you want the top talent then you have to pay for them. If you don’t then you don’t get. It’s that simple. I’ll say again, I don’t think I’m one of these people who thinks we should go out and spend £500m on players. We can’t. What we can do though is break the structure to get one or two top players. It’s feasible. You just have to cut in other areas (i.e. don’t buy Markovic for the future or the like). If Utd get top 4 and we don’t then there’ll be a reason why – a better transfer policy.
Agree most of us we’re happy with the summer transfer business, I made the point myself a few weeks ago. The only thing I’d say to that is it’s fine for me to play fantasy football and think Lovren is a good player on the back of that. If you’re an expert in players though and get a good wage for recruiting them then you need more than what we as fans can offer. A look at Lovren’s past raises question marks. One that I don’t have the time to investigate but someone paying £20m for him should have. At the end of the day, we all talk shit because it’s our passion. If recruiting is your job then I’d expect more insight into a player. There doesn’t seem to have been much team building, just a collection of players bought.
Regarding Rodgers, again, I made the point a few weeks ago. Once that veil of invincibility is lost then it goes downhill pretty quickly. Everything he does will be scrutinised more because the fans feel he hasn’t made the right team selections. Everything will be seen in a negative light. It’s like a court case, is the idea to prove guilt or prove innocence. Obviously it’s to prove guilt but for Rodgers it’s turned the other way. Rather than starting from the premise he’s a good manager fans will start from the premise he’s not. He’ll have to prove himself all over again. I’m disappointed it’s come to this.
I have not commented on the signings, other than to say that properly handled the current squad could get top 4. My issue us with the absolute absence of football smarts from Rodgers.
I agree. Outside of the top 4 will rank a failure so far as FSG are concerned, and I think Rodgers knows it.
I have no problem with Rodgers carrying the can if that happens, but people need to criticize him for things he can control – the tactics, the formation, the balance of the side, playing players out of position, etc. – and not the things he can’t e.g. not signing 50m players who don’t want to play for us.
The difference between the dwindling number of Brendanistas and those who are not fans of him, is that if the shit hits the fan then one group can say ‘I told you’ while the other group says ‘fuck!!’
Didn’t see you post much at the end of last season though Kevin though did we (except to admit you were wrong about sterling, fair play)?
So far under Rodgers we have played one crap half a season when we needed another striker (Suarez was still transition from wide of a front three to genuine striker at that point, something people don’t seem to give Brendan credit for), a very solid top 4 level second half, a season with its ups and downs but sees us finish like a steam train and miss the title by the width of Gerrard’s studs, followed bay another crap third of a season when we again desperately need a striker. I personally don’t see what basis that is to claim that Rodgers is a bad manager, more that he, as an attack minded manager, needs a decent striker otherwise it all comes undone.
If that makes me a “Brendanista” then fine. Personally I think rafaista, brendanista, dalglihnista is a complete wank and if you can take any pleasure in saying “I told you so” when liverpool lose then I rest my case. I loved rafa but don’t think I could go back to him now, not after the way we played last season, it was way too sexy.
My prediction, things will slowly start to turn around when we get a striker who can run behind and stretch the game on the pitch. Will look forward to telling you “I told you so” when it happens, not that you could give a fuck.
Sorry, that ended a bit harsher than I intended. I’m sure you mean well Kevin but gloating when we are losing is not a good look is it now?
Oh, I won’t gloat. I’m a thick or thin supporter, not a fairweather fan. And I concede that I was very quiet in the second half if last season, but the performances didn’t stop me biting my nails every time we conceded a corner or passed the ball back to Mignolet. But I thought the problems were so obvious that they would be resolved in the close season with a shitload if money from Suarez. I happen to think Mignolet was the major problem and was aghast when Reina was sold with no incoming keeper. I don’t know what issues the club or Rodgers had with Reina but at his worst he is a better keeper than Simon at his best. And when he joined the squad in the States and was ostracised I thought it was spiteful. Then we were linked with exciting wingers by the dozen, it seemed.
I think a better keeper would transform our defence, and I think Lucas has a huge role to play so long as he is not covering for Johnson and Gerrard.
Believe me, I would be ecstatic if I was proven wrong. I just don’t think I will be.
You’re clutching at straws here mate. No real Liverpool fan should have to have the Reina thing explained to them. What do you think Rafa Benitez would have done with an inherited player that behaved like Reina did?? We have to listen to the same nonsense form “fans” about Agger.
I’m with you on another keeper but Reina wasn’t the answer, and especially not on his wages. He was great in his pomp but he was missing many saves you would expect him to make by the end of his time here and it is pretty telling that he didn’t find a club where he could get a game in the end.
I’ll admit that Rodgers’ freezing out of players doesn’t sit well with me either as it does seem to get a little personal. But I think he can point to the performances of certain players when they come back and the overall team spirit last season and say it has it’s uses.
Also with you on Lucas, but that brings back to Gerrard again doesn’t it? I can see why Rodgers is hesitating, hoping he can make it until Sturridge gets back and see if Gerrard starts working in his deep lying role again, because he really wants Gerrard onside to win over the new players in the dressing room instead of sulking on the bench. The last thing he wants to do with sections of the support already rounding on him is to take on an all time legend of the club, but it looks like that might be shaping as the defining challenge of his career.
By the way, So’ton have no money and had their squad castrated in the summer, mainly by us. And yet they recruited better than we did and have a canny manager. I repeat – we didn’t necessarily buy poor ingredients, it is the chef who can’t cook.
They did have quite a bit of money to play with, we gave them 45 mil to start. They do have a canny manager but they also didnt buy for 2-3 years time like we did, have champions league football to worry about or the pressure of playing with the liver bird on their chest in front of an often eerily quiet anfield. Get back to me at the end of the season when other mangers have worked out how to get at koeman’s formation, everyone was falling over laudrup at this stage of the season before last and look where he is now.
And guys, you really need to sort out the casino banner on the iPad, it goes exactly over where I am typing (or is it just me, do I need to update?).
‘.., falling over Laudrop two years ago, and where is he now?’
More or less makes the same point some of us are making about BR.
Except they are almost completely different situations. Rodgers had already worked in the premiership and had done well, had a slow start in his first season then gradually got going once he had the players he needed (I.e a striker to lead the line in sturridge). The next season with the time to gel the squad we start playing some great football (Tottenham and city away are my archetypes not the ridiculously fun free for all that followed once Gerrard came back) almost win the league after only losing to one of the most expensively assembled squads in history (even adjusting for player inflation) by a bit of bad fortune. Explain to me how that is anything like laudrup except in the mind of someone looking for any excuses to get the manager sacked because he doesn’t like the way he talks.
I really shouldn’t have to me reminding people about last season, I don’t understand how quickly everyone has forgotten, go read the guys book and remember just how amazing it felt.
That’s when he should have addressed the Gerrard issue. Sadly he bottled it.
Soton have a system built around that DM pairing of Wanyama and Schneiderlin and link very simply and very well when going forwards. Look at their goals, someone does a holding up the ball thing and someone runs off them gets the pass and scores. And they keep doing it!!
They appear able to plug and play. We lack anything distinguishing other than SG in our setup which is handicapping us. And without the front guy the ones behind him don’t know what to do and are never high up the pitch enough.
I’d be fine with BR making us play the Soton way, he just doesn’t seem able to do it.