NEIL Atkinson is joined on this week’s podcast by Rob Gutmann, Paul Cope and Paul Johnson to discuss Liverpool’s showing against Chelsea and work out where The Reds go from here.
Download issue 13 of #TAWMAG via iTunes or at app.theanfieldwrap.com for other devices.
Agree with Neil when he says our heads go down too easily. That comes from leadership or lack thereof, both on and off the pitch.
Paul says: “Lovren must be a better player than we’re seeing to justify the transfer”
Isnt that a crazy line of thinking? Why must he be better? Why is not possible that he is average, it was a poor piece of business on our part and that? How can that not be a realistic outcome given what we know of
(a) his performances for us
(b) his performances for a Southampton side which conceded 46 goals last season despite having two defensive midfielders protecting him
(c) our record in the transfer market over the last 3 years?
And let’s not forget, it could have been worse if the manager got his way. He wanted 68 year old Clint Dempsey. He wanted Gylfi Sigurdsson, but he chose Spurs over us. He didn’t want Daniel Sturridge. He wanted rid of Jordan Henderson.
Neil’s point on Johnson being made to look so badly out of position for their second due to being told to babysit Gerrard is spot on. Rob’s point on Johnson not having the engine he once had looks totally correct too.
What needs to happen here on out? Rodgers needs to change. We have less points after 11 games than Souness, Evans, Houillier, Benitez, Dalglish and even Roy fucking Hodgson had in their last seasons at the club. Think about that for a second. Let that sink in. None of them had £120m to spend in the preceding Summer either.
His behaviours are becoming worrying and have been seen before. Rodgers took over Reading summer of 2009. Given ‘substantial funds’ in the summer window to ‘build upon’ success left by Steve Coppell. Less than 6 months later he was sacked.
This is what Reading’s chairman stated after he sacked Rodgers 5 years ago:
“I understand he didn’t have much time but we got on a slippery slope and it just got worse. Signings didn’t settle, Brendan was adamant his style of play would eventually work. Results kept getting worse, performances too. Results & performances did not match what the manager was consistently telling me. The fans started to tell me a different story. Brendan refused to comprehend the notion of changing his ways so adamant was he that he would be successful. The only thing that was changing rapidly was our league position. Was it hasty sacking him? (No) Did we avoid relegation with McDermott? (Yes)”*
Food for thought.
PS: Please don’t compare Brendan to Klopp. Dortmund fans are behind him because they KNOW he can win the top trophies with him. He’s done it. He’s proven. Rodgers is not. What’s he won?
*Credit to Bobthered1 on twitter for those quotes.
Rodgers got the job at Watford on the back of a recommendation from a certain Portuguese manager, the same guy who eulogised Rodgers when he was given the Liverpool job and told anyone prepared to listen that we’d snagged ourself the best English manager in the game.
So I gues it boils down to who you think knows best about what it takes to succeed at the highest level:
Jose Mourinho or John Madejski?
“Food for thought” indeed.
Oh and Neil, I haven’t listended to the podcast yet but if Chris’s report is accurate and you’re seriously blaming Gerrard for Johnson’s absenteeism and Coutinho’s schoolboyish attempts at defending near a touchline, then that is comical. What’s left? Mignolet’s kicking? The weather?
Mourinho knows a lot more about coaching* than Madejeski ever will.
But Medjeski knows more about running a football club than Mourinho ever will. And he was completely right in sacking Rodgers. Results proved him correct.
I was pointing out that Rodgers’ is persisting with ‘stuff’ that isnt working. And it will continue not to work unless ‘stuff’ changes. And he has previous. That is all.
*Coaching is not the same as managing. Managing entails other, much more complicated and difficult things. Like transfers. Like team selection. Like an ideology/philosophy. Like talking publicly without making a cunt of yourself. Things like that.
Rodgers hasn’t been hired to “run” LFC, which is why I’m inclined to set more store by Mourinho’s opinion of his as a manager and coach.
Rodgers was at Reading for barely 5 motnhs if memory serves. No-one – not Madjeski, not you, not me – has a bloody clue how things would have played out if Rodgers had been given more time. He may have got them relegated (although they weren’t in the relegation zone when he left), or may have got them promoted…just like he got Swansea promoted in his very next job.
Anyone is entitled to think sacking Rodgers was the right decision (and it’s Madejski’s club to do with as he pleases), but to say “results proved him correct” is simply not true. Unless you have the data from a parallel universe in which the counterfactual of Rodgers staying in charge for the full season was played out, nothing has been “proven”.
So in your world no-one, ever, should be sacked? Because it just might be a matter of time before they turn it round?
I mean, so what if Rodgers took over a team who finished 4th the previous season, spent a relative fortune with the remit of getting promotion, only to be 21st out of 24 teams come December, was sacked and his replacement took Reading to 9th come seasons end? How could that possibly justify the chairman’s decision to sack Rodgers, eh Brownie? Obviously the chairman was completely wrong. Obviously results didn’t prove him correct.
Fucking ridiculous. Reckon you’re just disagreeing with me for the sake of it now. After saying you’d love to plant a bullet between my eyes. Embarrassing behaviour from a grown man. Catch a fucking grip of yourself.
“So in your world no-one, ever, should be sacked?”
Is there someone else on here posting under my monicker, because I haven’t written anything that could lead you to that conclusion. You’ve twice posted Madejski’s comments on here and have suggested we should see them as “food for thought”. You’re perfectly entitled to take that view, but there may be people out there who know nothing about Rodgers’ time at Reading so I’m just supplying the context, which is that he was there about 5 months and when he left they weren’t languishing in last place 20 points off safety, rather they were just outside the relegation zone. There are plenty of over-ambitious owners for whom that isn’t good enough and will get rid of managers even if we’re only just into December – and I’ve already said that as owner Madjeski is entitled to do what he likes – but there are also plenty of people who will think such a decision is premature, especially in a league like the Championship when at that stage of the season a couple of wins can sometimes take you from relegation-threatened to play-off position.
You went on to say that results “proved him [Madejski] right”, and I merely pointed out that no-one can possibly know that, because no-one knows what would have happened if Rodgers had been given longer than a mere 5 months. What we do know is that in his next job Rodgers got Swansea promoted. Maybe that should be “food for thought” for Madejski, especially as it was his club – Reading – Swansea beat in the play-off final.
Sorry Chris, there is nothing controversial about this. Obviously owners will claim vindication if performances improve after a sacking – why would they do anything else? – but there’s a difference between geting rid of someone after a couple of years of under-performance, or when the club is rooted to the foot of the league, and booting a manager when he’s half-a-dozen points worse off than you expected, barely 5 months into the season.
“Reckon you’re just disagreeing with me for the sake of it now. After saying you’d love to plant a bullet between my eyes* [*ed – no I didn’t]. Embarrassing behaviour from a grown man. Catch a fucking grip of yourself.”
I can’t lie, Chris. I think a lot of what you write is hyperbolic tosh. It’s not like you don’t make good points here and there – you do – but even when you do it’s normaly accompanied by unnecessary hysterics and a sneering disdain for counter-arguments. Just see this thead.
I used to co-author a blog for 10 years and I can promise you that disagreeing with people just for the sake of it is not my bag – my time is too precious for that shit.
You’re a prolific commenter, Chris, so it stands to reason that there’s more chance you’re going to say something that I/someone else will disagree with. It’s not for me to tell anyone how to spend their time, but if you really are as intolerant of dissent as your comments here suggest, posting widely on a football fan forum probably is’t the best idea because footie fans tend to have losts of opinions. It’s likely to be bad for your health…
…just as I suspect responding to you is bad for mine. So I’ll make this the last time I address you directly. This selfless act on my part will serve the dual purpose of ensuring I live a few years longers, whilst saving other readers the tedium of watching you and me go back and forth again and again and again…
Said it once, said it twice, said it thrice: Gerrard will out last Rodgers.
Rodgers has managed to pull a Spurs, doesn’t select players on merit, and fails to see the shit on the pitch not working, despite over a quarter of the season gone. He’ll be gone before the new season, or after Christmas if this relegation form continues. FSG must be lived, again. They must be desperate to get out of Liverpool. Once the ground work nears completion, expect the club up for sale.
Normally like most podcasts. Irked me this one. Everythings ok we can just go and win 6 on the bounce. Jesus Christ. Overly optimistic bollocks from beginning to end.
The footy is whatever but more pressingly Neil, calling Kit Kats ‘bars’ and not ‘chocolate biscuits’ is lunacy I can’t let slide.
War time chocolate bars, lol. I think someone’s memory’s playing tricks on them.
I’ve often seen the accusation levelled at TAW contributors that they’re too positive. If Jim has become the king of pain then Rob seems to be the new queen of positivity. I’ve never understood it though. Always thought of TAW as just ‘grounded’. Not over reacting or under reacting to any given scenario but telling it how it is.
When I put this on tonight I kind of understood what those slurs are about. I’ve had a thoroughly miserable weekend. I was supposed to take my lad to a firework display last night, meet up with some friends there then go back for a party at one of their houses. I was looking forward to it a bit. My partner and son went in the end but I stayed in. I simply couldn’t be bothered talking to anyone. I’d spent the post match day getting involved in the doom of what we’ve become as a football club. I found it all encompassing. By early evening I couldn’t really see the point of supporting Liverpool any more. I thought I’d be better off without them. So, getting to the point of my comment – I was amazed by the ‘business as usual’ calmness at the start of the podcast. I was a bit angry for a minute. As it wore on though I realised the people on the pod are a hell of a lot closer to reality than I am right now. I’m not sure what made me lose my head this weekend but I feel a bit better having listened to this and I’m pleased it gave some perspective. Good work lads!
Good points. I felt similarly doomed this weekend. I think a lot of this week’s frustration is tied up with the Real Madrid lineup. We could justify it as long as it wasn’t a one-off. We could justify it if those who played well maintained their places in the side. Now it really does look as though he treated a huge CL match like a Capital Cup tie and that rankles; if feels as though we have players being picked week in week out on reputation alone.
Hope the boys are right about Sturridge. We need to get back to a recognisable playing style, the style that made us successful. No more 4-2-3-1!
‘
I don’t get why the show is so criticised btw. It’s just a bunch of mates talking about footy. It’s a lifeline to a scouser in Finland, I can tell you.
Some people just like moaning mate. Any excuse.
Same for someone stuck in Qatar as well Paul.
I think to be honest people just want what they feel is going on brought to the fore. The mates talking was probably true when TAW started, now however, i don’t really see it like that especially with what TAW has become and how it’s grown.
I’m all for positivity but there was a bit of whitewash in that panel today. I accept that i’m probably the only person with a bit of an issue with Gutmanns blind spot on all things Brendan & Stevie and we all have opinions on the club and personnel that we may or may not agree with what’s being said, thus I tutted a bit at some of this pod but I still listen every week and to be fair to all involved, they are the ones out there doing it and sticking their heads up for people like us to kiss or take pot shots at.
I haven’t heard this week’s podcast but agree with the general sentiment. To read some commenters on here you’d think they were physically restrianed every Monday and forced to listen at gunpoint.
We all get emotional about this stuff because we care, but I do try to start from the premise that everyone here wants LFC to do well. Noone wants us to fail.
My main complaint right now is that some of the criticism of Rodgers smaks of entitlement. To explain, when Dalglish got the boot I wasn’t just upset at the treatment of my boyhood hero; it was also that we risked mimicking the worst traits of the big clubs when instant success is not delivered. Axing managers after 12/18 mths is something Chelsea do, not us. We’re supposed to be able to see the bigger picture, to know the difference between riding a wave of mega-millions and building dynasties. That’s what pissed me off most. I realise that only a handful of LFC supporters are actually calling for Rodgers’ head, but there’s a much bigger, vocal group who aren’t that far off and some of them can be found here. That’s barely 11 games after our most successful season in over 20 years.
We never used to be like this.
Any talk of sacking the manager mid season is daft really. I’m clear in my head that the end of the season is when I’ll be judging him. Much as Rodgers isn’t helping himself I think there are plenty of mitigating factors as to why we aren’t doing better. More than Rodgers style or team selections I feel we need to re-evaluate the transfer committee from FSG down to the targets pin pointed. It’s so frustrating that this year we just needed a top striker at any cost (as the Suarez money would have covered both fee and wages for a year or 2) and haven’t got one. In FSG’s 4 years how many of the ‘value’ signings have gone on to be good first team players that we were smart enough to get early therefore cheap?
But I think a bigger question is ‘who’ are these value players?
A quick run down of transfers makes it difficult to see who they are.
In their first window of Jan 11 we saw Carroll for £35 and Suarez for £23. It’s difficult to call them ‘value’ despite what Suarez became.
2011/12 saw Henderson at £16m, Downing £20m, Adam £7m, Enrique £6.3m and Coates £7m. Difficult to see ‘value’ there. Then on the cheap there were Doni, Bellamy, Bijev and Ward. Pointless even discussing them.
2012/13 saw Borini £10m, Allen £15m, Sturridge £12m and Coutinho £8.5m. I’m not comfortable classing Sturridge as value. Sturridge was almost a top club reject and a fair price despite how he’s proved the world wrong. Then we saw Assaidi £2.5m, Yesil £1m and Ibe £0.5m. So where’s the value? Ibe maybe. Coutinho probably.
2013/2014 saw Alberto £6.8m, Aspas £7m, Ilori £7m, Mignolet £10m, Sakho £18m and Toure free.
Again, I’m failing to see value here. Just a waste a £20m certainly but probably a lot more.
2014/15 has seen Lallana £25m, Lovren £20m, Markovic £20m, Mario £16m, Moreno £12m, Origi and Can £10m each and Lambert £4m. Again, who do we class as value there? Origi and Can? Time will tell.
I think it points to a confused policy. We’re caught in the middle of what we call ‘value’ and ‘proven’ players. All that seems to be happening is we’re getting neither value nor proven but a middle ground where, in fact, we’re simply over paying for average players.
yep, that’s pretty persuasuve when it’s laid out like that. I think our performance in the transfer market has been under-whelming at best over the last few years, but even then I would say there are mitigating factors, the biggest of which is that when it comes to signing truly proven players – amongst the very best in their position – we still struggle to compete with the clubs we like to think of as our rivals. Up until last year we couldn’t even win a head-to-head with Spurs. And when selling clubs know you have £50 million in your pocket from selling a Torres, or £75m from a Suarez, the result is that you wind up paying a premium even for those players you regards as your second and third choices for the positions you want to fill.
To take this season as an example, Rodgers wanted Sanchez. He wanted Costa last season. I imagine (hope?) he would have taken Falcao or Di Maria if they’d been interested. But it seems they weren’t.
I think (hope?) there are additional chapters to be written about Ibe, Illori, Teixeira, maybe Wisdom and possibly Coates (although time is running our Coates at 24).
There’s also an issue around our ability to negotiate effectively:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-transfer-news-mohamed-salah-3069031
Can’t lay that at Brendan’s door.
you’re creating a straw man argument, and then knocking it down. Making assumptions that we’re only after value signings.
We’re not, we’re after players with rising asset values and more modest wages so that if they don’t work out we can ship them out without it costing us so much.
I think the club has made decisions each summer depending on our status and what we needed for that season’s objectives. It hasn’t been the same each time and there have been adjustments.
So last summer we struggled to get primo players like Costa, Mhikitarian, Willian but bought a couple of young talented players (not really a bad thing to do) and Aspas as a backup striker. Seemed promising in Spain and we still had the young Borini.
This summer with CL achieved, we had to expand the squad. So we went for 1st team players and youngsters. A mix.
There WAS sense in it. EG buy the senior Lallana for AM and the junior Markovich as understudy AM. Pay the high release clause on Markovic cos he’s very talented and he’ll come due to playing opportunities / CL / big name club.
Full backs were needed, we did what it took to get them.
Emre Chan again we paid the release clause due to high ceiling but bought for a rising asset value.
The problem has come with Balotelli and Lovren. Neither were good enough / suited our style of play and given that Lallana was the only other senior player purchased we’ve gone backwards. 1st team signings are everything. Balo, Lovren, Lallana and Sakho last summer who BR doesn’t like. That list isn’t good enough.
Ultimately, youth and squad players will be hit and miss, the 1st team signings should be a sure thing. And that’s why we’re suffering.
Have to disagree with your straw man thing and I’m not “Making assumptions that we’re only after value signings”.
I’m asking who these value signings are. I’m questioning whether this strategy that clearly exists has yielded anything. I can see who the proven players are and I can see who the ‘value’ players were meant to be. I’m suggesting that the players being targeted in both area’s are clearly failing and I’m asking whether all these constraints placed on who we buy is actually leading to us just getting mediocre players. Word of advice, don’t come into a debate against someone who thinks we’re buying average players armed with Aspas and Borini.
For what it’s worth mate, I don’t think the signing this summer are as bad as people make out. Lovren is struggling obviously. My issue with the summer signings is about who we didn’t buy as much as who we did. We got the policy wrong. Spend £150m on 5 good players. When we get top 4 and money doubles then improve again but buy a few £20m potentials for the future on top. 5 world class would have boosted the squad more than 8 ‘average’ players.
when Lovren was signed and it seemed we were losing Suso , I was ready for divorce personally. It just told me that BR has no clue about players and will never achieve at lfc. It was the height of dumbfuckery.
I surprised myself at the knee jerkery of it but I think I was right, it was instinctive.
When and shortly after BR was hired I said 2 things
1. It’s a punt.
2. If he doesn’t build a strong resilient midfield (cos he wasn’t doing) he’ll never be a great manager.
Now we find not only does he not build a strong resilient midfield,
– he’s appalling at all aspects of defending,
– doesn’t understand Gerrard’s lack of mobility hampering the 2 man mid,
– doesn’t get the need for AMs supporting the lone striker with the help of full backs too.
– is a poor judge of player for recruitment.
Fact is Swansea was built for him and he added offensive traits though really did get a lot out of players brought/loaned into the club eg Caulker, dyer etc. When Dyer came he could barely kick a ball but was very quick. So it was a big transformation for him achieved under Rodgers but generally the possession and defensive side of Swansea wasn’t his influence but Martinez’ .
So we’re doing a poor job of being a possession team that’s hard to beat and he’s waiting for the attacking guy, Sturridge cos he’s going to put his stamp on the team. he’s not fixing things that are wrong and has chosen the wrong buys to help him do it.
But if we don’t support the striker with AMs and fullbacks, will Sturridge really beable to do anything anyway.
The telling thing for me about Rodgers and Swansea is that, talking to the Swans fans that I know (quite a few as I grew up 7 miles from Swansea) is that none of them were unhappy to see him go and most said one thing that’s come back, strangely, to haunt me : “At least now players will get a chance as Rodgers has his favourites who can never be shifted”.
I’m hopeful that this will change.
GREAT PODCAST AGAIN WITHER YOU AGREE OR NOT WITH POINTS,DISSAGREE WITH YOU ON GERRARD HE IS THE PROBLEM HE WAS LAST YEAR AND IS THIS YEAR . HE DOESNT UNDERSTAND THE ROLE , THE SIXTY YARD PASSES THAT CAME OFF LAST YEAR WERE COVERING UP HOW POOR HES WAS OFF THE BALL , I GOT SLAGGED OFF LAST SEASON GOING TO THE MATCH TRYING TO EXPLAIN HOW BAD HE WAS PLAYING AWAY FROM HOME ESSPECIALLY . THE BIGGEST MYTH IN FOOTBALL IS THAT IF YOU PLAY A MORE ATTACK MINDED PLAYER IN A DEFENSIVE ROLE IT MAKES YOU MORE POSITIVE . IT DOESNT MOSTGOALS ARE SCORED WHEN THE OTHER TEAMS ATTACKING WHICH MEAND YOU HAVE TO WIN THE BALL BACK EARLY WHICH STEVEN NEVER DOES,ALSO THE LONG BALLS ONLY SERVE TO STRETCH THE GAME MAKING YOU LESS COMPACT AND MORE SUSEPTABLE TO THE COUNTER. ALSO NEVER COVERS THE FULLBACKS NEVER GOES WITH RUNNERS WHEN FACING THE PLAY . BUT MOST WORRYING WAS ON SAT WHEN HE CLEARLY TRIED TO GET OUT OF THE GAME WITHOUT MAKING A MASSIVE MISTAKE. DOESNT MAKE HIM TECHNICALLY A BAD PLAYER HE CAN STILL COME ON AND CHANGE GAMES FURTHER UP THE FIELD . THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE MANAGER ! LUCAS HAS TO COME BACK IN HES IN GREAT FORM AND IS A WORLD CLASS HOLDER POINTING OUT SOMETHINGS NOT WORKING DOESNT MEAN YOU HATE THE PLAYER MAYBE WHEN JAMIE TAKES THAT VIEW YOUL SEE IM RIGHT!
Four points off fourth is all the perspective and context I need. All our goals are very much on. Time for the manager to show the flexibility he did last season and shape these men into a cohesive unit that plays to it’s strengths. Surely , it can only get better
Good episode.
Unless I misunderstood I’m not sure I really understand the argument of us continuing to play ‘mad’, like last season, being pragmatic right now. We lack the ability to score goals without Sturridge. We haven’t got a 5 in us. And playing that way we’re still on for averaging nearly 1.5 goals against per game. Being pragmatic right now to me would be bringing Lucas in and trying to go for more control and possession. And trying a different attacking plan based on having more technique than the opposition with Coutinho and Can in midfield.
No matter how similar we played to last season not one of our current fit strikers would come close to 1 in 2. Sterling would be 1 in 3. We just haven’t got the goals in us. At some point it does come down to ability and that point is the gap between Sturridge and our other centre forwards.
Hopefully, of course, this will be irrelevant with Dan back next game.
Comparing klopp with brendan is really poor.. dortmund have won 2 bundesliga with him as manager and is game for cutting him some slack, but top managers should not really be in relegation zones regardless of how bad a season start is so maybe klopp needs to move on but he has not spent over £120 million gross in the transfer windows or preaches to be a “guru” of football .The Anfield wrap podcast can now be mistaken for sounding more like David Maddock ..Henry winter. Or .Patrick barclay masterpieces on all things football and Liverpool !
See, I’m ok with the youngsters bought. These are much more about committee identification and FSG’s strategy of buying high quality young players (higher than last summer) so helping protect the club going forwards.
You buy the best you can when you get CL footy and play exciting games to attract them and benefit in 2 seasons time though they can do a job right now.
What I’m not ok with is the senior players bought and this is much more on BR and a failing by all last summer.
Lovren – predictably poor for me, and Lallana – potentially too lightweight but may link up ok if coaching and game setup is sound, nevertheless overpriced and I wouldn’t have bought him.
Balotelli, I would never have bought, totally wrong type of player for us and BR said so before we bought him – I think in a move to stop the club buying him but was left with no choice.
So Balo, Lovren, Lallana doesn’t improve our 1st team and THAT is the problem especially after only getting Sakho last summer and BR ditching him the way he has for Lovren ( how???? why????).
Set your txfer committee/manager to get 2x1st team players each summer and just get the best you can. Get up to 3 young/squad players if you want and use the reserves or veterans or something for anything else.
Constraints are a good thing because it would make you focus on those 1st team signings. If you know you can only have two then you will make damn sure you get it right. BR hasn’t really shown he can do it in the txfer market for 1st team signings. Some of it is his ideas and some is players won’t come for him cos he’s not a name, and that’s a problem.
Rafa would buy 1 expensive player / year (2 if he could sell to raise the money) and then others were squad players. He built an awesome 1st team but ultimately couldn’t get the squad depth right for a number of reasons. BR isn’t getting the 1st team right and that’s the problem.
ps, why do you think he insists on not using Balotelli to his strengths and tries instead to convert him into a Sturridge? My guess is he’s trying to convert him and if it doesn’t work he’ll ditch him. Harsh as we could change our style to use him as more of a hold up guy with runners. But BR won’t do that AND we’re leaking goals.
I’m all for being optimistic but I don’t see very much to be optimistic about at the min. We’ve just suffered our 3rd defeat in a week with all 3 performances being sub standard. We’ve recently spent £120mil on players (so glad yous will be talking about transfers next) and there’s not one bar possibly Moreno that you could say is defo in the first XI. We have a manager who keeps doing the same thing over and over again each week re tactics, team choice, formation but expects a different result. We have what seemingly is a transfer committee who’s spending millions on players who the manager doesn’t fancy only for the manager not to give them a chance (Sakho, Alberto etc). We still can’t defend especially from set pieces after 2+yrs but now to add to this our midfield looks disjointed and we can’t buy a goal.
After our fantastic season last year the manager has most definitely bought his self some grace but he doesn’t need to use it all up in the first few months of the season. I’m behind Rodgers but he needs to change things and quick.
I get the impression that players must fit into BR’s game style / plan / ideas or they’re gonna be gone.
Sakho and Balotelli for example are being tried but I believe are on their way out (Sakho might well end up staying cos Lovren is so awful but he does get niggles. I’ll tolerate Lovren as an understudy – just, but not for long).
He can be fast and loose with the youngsters/squad players although this summer’s youngsters are more worth persevering with than last summers’.
His problem is the senior signings which were bad choices. Even Lallana might prove to be a bit lightweight. I wouldn’t have bought him for that price. He’s a squad player and even then I’d rather bring Suso on.
But playing one up top needs the AMs and FBs to come up in support and that’s not happening hence we’re not creating any chances.
And Gerrard is a disaster in a 433 / 2 man mid type formation. His legs are killing us. If there are 2 quality forwards his distribution is great, otherwise he’s a disaster.
Great slick show lads!!
Always well worth a listen lads, but there was too much blind faith and misplaced optimism in that podcast for me.
(Even with Rob in the room, which surprised me). Its not the end of the world. It’s a league in which the middle 8 teams are going to be miles better than last year. Arsenal and Spurs are having the same inquests- so there’s no need to start talking silly stuff yet. But….there are a couple of things worrying me.
Firstly, the idea that Sturridge comes back and solves everything mustn’t be a straw to clutch at. Our problems this season go deeper than that. We are all hoping beyond hope he comes back for Palace, and he immediately gives us a moving target to hit up front and stretch centre backs. But he doesn’t solve a lot of issues such as the slow recycling of the ball at the back, what happens when the opposition puts a midfielder in to sit on Gerrard and how we cover for attacking full backs. (3 issues we are nowhere near sorting out at the moment). He improves things immeasurably just by being in the line up, but the tweaks will need to go beyond this.
Personally, going back to the diamond for those 6 ‘winnable’ games is the kind of bravery I’d like to see us adopt.
Secondly, and what disappoints me most, is that Brendan has binned the idea of meritocracy as the basis for team selection, for the first time in his tenure. In his first season, when we had 2 points from 5, he could have panicked and binned a lot of the kids (Suso, Sterling, Wisdom) from those games, even though many were outperforming the regulars. He stuck to his guns, he kept those lads in, for some of them, it was the absolute making of them. Last year, Jon Flanagan was the best performing left back on the books, and as such, he got picked. Yes, it was a smaller squad last year, but there were no games where you felt Brendan was playing a lad to justify a fee or massage an ego.
With Chelsea this has all gone out the window; Lovren, the worst regular starter by a distance goes straight back in for Kolo. Johnson, who seems to break his effort and cocentration within a game into spells (15 minutes on, 15 minutes off) comes back in for Manquillo, who really dug in at the Bernabeu. It says, ‘”I’m picking these lads because they cost me plenty and I need them to come good”. It says “I’m determined to be proven right about this lad, and I’m willing to drop points because of it”.
I watched Lovren against Spurs last season, when it looked like we were closing in on him, and he was at fault for 2 goals and, essentially, the 3 points. A lot of the faults I saw then where the ones I’m seeing now; letting lads run past him on the outside, poor recovery pace, losing track of his other centre back and the defensive line, impulsive tackling. I agree with the lads, there’s got to be something that said 20 million quid centre back, but having him making ricket after ricket week in week out isn’t helping him or us. Let him come back when it’s on merit, and maybe we’ll see these leadership qualities come through.
Give the lad a break, and give the lad a break.
Agree with all of that. I’ll declare my hand here, I’ve been behind Brendan Rodgers since day one. I can see why people think he’s a bullshitter but he put smiles on a lot of faces after a traumatic few years, got the team playing great football and unified divided supporters. If the misguided Being: Liverpool hadn’t seen the light of day we’d probably have a higher opinion of him: the fault for that lies at FSG’s door. A few games in, having lost our one world-class player and that unity is fraying at the edges already, H&G really did a job on our supporters.
One thing I’d say to all supporters is: it’s no good looking back. We went through this as a city in the 80s and 90s; things only started improving when we started looking forwards and outwards again. Rafa’s not coming back and Kenny didn’t cut it second time around – that’s our reality. Brendan was the best man available and one of the few who’d accept FSG’s conditions, it’s not as though top international managers were scrambling for the job. So let’s accept our reality and look forward.
Having said all that, he’s not immune to criticism. He’s had three years to sort the defence out and two to recognise that Steven Gerrard is a declining force. Our fullbacks are regularly caught out of position, our keeper’s dodgy and it looks at this stage as though we’ve made the same mistakes in the market we made in 2002 and 2009. The dynamic between the manager and the committee is clearly problematic. At my most pessimistic I do wonder if he’s a great youth coach promoted beyond his ability: he’s clearly great at improving individuals but seems to have problems setting balanced teams up and I’m not sure he has an eye for a player in the market. On top of that he lost a lot of good will this weekend.
But…..but…..we’re in danger of becoming recidivists if we start clamouring for his removal after such a positive couple of seasons. Let’s get behind him, critically if needs be and stay united. Being divided doesn’t help anyone, the H&G years weren’t that much fun were they? We’ve still got a great chance to make the top four, let us hope he uses the international break to reappraise the season. If he carries on making the same mistakes we can re-evaluate at the end of the season.
I think there’s a 3rd way here Paul. I have seen a lot of people call for his head on social media but then at the same time I’ve seen their other status’s and tweets and they’re not people I take seriously. As always with Liverpool fans it’s the polarised views that make themselves heard. The other way I mention are the people who definitely don’t want him sacked but if we’re taking football and Liverpool then who definitely want to criticise him if they feel it’s warranted. What I mean is, it seems if you criticise him then you’re calling for his head. There’s a middle ground that often gets forgotten about.
There’s just too many things that don’t have an explanation right now. Why is there no support for a forward whoever we play? The one up top is a thing and the best teams do it (and the weaker teams). We are unique in that we don’t support that one guy with AMs/FBs etc. Weird.
Actually Kolo is an exception to the unexplainable. The deep line we were always going to play in Madrid suits Kolo (and Manquillo) very well while at Chelsea with a more dynamic game and moving back line, his age/legs counts against him. And you hope Lovren being left out helps him sort his game out without killing him (don’t hold your breath, his faults are intrinsic to me).
But not playing to Balo’s strengths is weird. My guess is BR wants to know if he can play the mobile forward role and he’ll give it a damn good go but if it doesn’t work then he wants a replacement in January. Seems he has the bigger picture in mind. To me you play to Balo’s strengths even if you change the game plan but BR isn’t thinking that way so we’re getting nothing from Balo.
But for BR’s 433 (which is really a 4231) Gerrard is a massive problem. Gerrard is great with 2 mobile forwards for him to pick out but absolutely hopeless with one up top. BR persisting with him compromises our midfield like nothing else and that also stops us supporting the forwards. I don’t think BR is going to drop Stevie though and it’s going to compromise our season just as much as the forward issue.
Yep, Stevie as one of the two in a 4-2-3-1 is a disaster. But we’ve known that for years, haven’t we?
Looks like mainstream media and punditocracy are finally starting to acknowledge it as well. He’ll be better with Sturridge to hit, but that won’t help him escape his marker or stop him unbalancing our midfield. Time for Brendan to grow a pair.