THIS needs a power crawl. It’s a massive game for us and them and it needs a power crawl. Don’t know who decided that. Me or Graves. One of us. It involves getting in, and being in, the city from 11. Being there and touring it. Hitting it. Being one with it. The city is always the thing and when it gets bigger let’s see what we can do. Meet at 11. Do six. Get in for kick off.
Nailed it. Just. Involved the cheekiest Lemoncello you’ve ever seen.
The game is massive. A win opens doors. A defeat closes them. A draw does something to them. Takes the handle off maybe. Calls for them to be rehinged. I don’t know. Some metaphor or another. See above, power crawl.
We got a defeat which sorts things out for Chelsea.
Liverpool start bright as a button. The sort of effervescence that has been missing. Given Chelsea’s rockiness, it isn’t quite waves of Liverpool pressure but it does erode itself into a goal, Liverpool keeping the ball along the back line, creating space and Can emerging into it, firing home, deflected.
After that Chelsea force their way into it. I have few ideas about the equaliser. It happened though. Liverpool looked decent until 30, Chelsea dominated after then.
Ivanovic could be the best player in the country, you know. He is perfect at what he does. Perfect. He is a joy to watch. Gary Cahill, too. Reminds you of Carragher 06 and there is little praise.
Liverpool found themselves in an especially tough game and found themselves wanting. Coutinho was effective and ineffective, capable of opening them and doing nothing. Mercurial for five, but what do you do for the five? Henderson was poor throughout. Hard working but poor.
It was a tough game for the captain. Repeatedly found wanting by their level and his, by our pressure and theirs. Holes of green popping up around the park in front of him. Too often in the first 45there is half a press, too often there isn’t enough. Second Liverpool were second best until the goal and weren’t first best enough there after.
Gerrard is officially a problem. There’s no joy in this, but he is a problem. Everyone around me is talking about it, he just can’t be Gerrard any more. He can’t quite do it. He has patches, especially as the game wears on. But he is now definitely a man without a country. It kills.
When Chelsea started singing “Sit down, shut up,” lad behind me went “No Stephen Sondheim are they?” I mention this only because it made me laugh. They aren’t, no. Basic as onions is what they are. Mangling the English language is what they are doing. They turn up, more contemptible than any who come through the gates, working their balls off to be contemptible. At least, not least, it comes easily to United. At least, not least, there’s a ship canal and a billion years of history involved. At least, not least I, we, care about United, or can, for 90 minutes in the blood and in the bone. These characters playing a character leave me cold. They are stuck with the endless reality of being Chelsea, however much they gnarl their faces and furrow their brows and bite their fists. The football that matters happens in the north west boys. That’s an historical reality you can’t overcome. Soz.
There remains for The Reds a cutting edge question. These centre forwards Liverpool have aren’t bad players through the telescope of history. Fifteen years ago Balotelli looks great. Twenty five years ago Borini dominates Serie A. Forty years ago Lambert runs this league. He plays all over the show. Now he’s a lad without a position. Borini showed for all the world. God it is a shame.
The referee was terrible today. There is a tactical decision Chelsea make to get in the referee’s red zone. All game. They make these situations occur. They push others towards red zones and red cards, don’t be fooled, it is a decision they make. They know what they are doing and when the referee is weak they get away with it. Forearms in faces, diving saves from outfield players. These are Don Revie’s Leeds. They played the weak referee like a fiddle. He should be ashamed.
That said, the workrate was the best I’ve seen from an opposition side. It was spectacular. They ran themselves into the ground. They ran themselves like footballers who know the title was there today. A decision was made by Chelsea before a ball was kicked this season. You win the league in the first 12 games and then coast.
Chelsea were impressive. But this thing nags. What nags is that they, he, Mourinho has the number nine of his dreams, his prototype nine. More mobile than Drogba, more dead eyed than Milito. He has the lot. He has everything working. However they aren’t as good as they were 05/06. Or 09/10. Or as good as Real or Bayern. Nowhere near.
But Chelsea won the league today. They approached it like a league decided. It reminded me of New Year’s Day 2005. They turned up to Anfield, turned up to the north west, and won by a single goal with a hotly disputed handball decision, with contentious refereeing. And after today’s win they are where they are now, the north west in the bag. Visits to Manchesters City and United; to Liverpool and Everton, all done. Go hard, go early. Get it all done. Get it all nailed. Get it in the bag.
Liverpool and Brendan Rodgers have it all to do. All to nail. Nothing to say it won’t be nailed, seasons come in patches. A third in, though and decisions need to be made. Big ones.
In the meantime, come to town. Let’s have a chat.
[yop_poll id=”20″]
[rpfc_recent_posts_from_category posts=”7″ meta=”true”]
Pics: David Rawcliffe-Propaganda
I assume the main skill needed to be a friend of Glasses is the ability to turn a yawn into a ‘wow’. #yawow
He’s talking shite as usual, ignore it.
How Man City aren’t top of the league is a crime. Chelsea really weren’t that good. It was just that we were shit. Brendan staked his reputation on this game, not the fans or media – he did. He didn’t have to. But that’s the cut of the man. He thinks he’s clever.
He’s in danger of going the way of the Hodge.
It’s very clear he MAKES defenders fanny around with the ball at the back. It’s clear he thinks that makes us like Barcelona. Any decent defender who disagrees is gone. Like I say, he thinks he’s clever. We don’t have the players for that. You play to your strengths and bring that style in slowly.
People on here and twitter will spout ‘can’t believe the stick Rodgers is getting’?!? He’s the one going around gobbing off saying he knows what he’s doing when he has NO c.v !
Walk the walk Rodgers and keep your trap shut.
I will echo what others have said; it’s not that we’re losing, it’s how we’re losing. chelsea barely shifted out of 1st gear, just like real madrid. if you think they would’ve lay down had we equalised, think again. the penalty shout is a distraction because we didn’t even deserve a point.
it’s not good enough. the club made fatal mistakes over summer. we were in a position of strength and to lose that is criminal. yes it’s bad luck that sturridge has missed so many games, but we knew he was injury prone so it’s no excuse. yes there was nothing we could do about sanchez preferring london, but we seemingly had no back up. 3 of our scouts were sacked a few days ago, so the axe is falling.
gerrard is not the only problem, but he’s a huge one. we are toothless up front and confused at the back, and the rot starts from the midfield. rodgers’ lack of spine has disappointed me so much today, and it’s going to get him the sack. gerrard is transforming into rooney before our eyes. bigger than the club and a detriment to the team, except he pulls out even less jammy goals.
3 losses in a week, and before that we drew. forget the opposition and the penalty shout today, it’s a distraction. this is midtable form.
And to think, Alex Song was available for, well, a song……Negligence of the highest order. He and Cabaye would sort out our midfield woes, but we need a new keeper and at least two new CBs. In the meantime lets give Kolo and Sakho a run in the side. Lovren’s becoming an embarrassment.
Nothing wrong with midfield – those players would only cause more confusion.
It’s our forward line that’s needs strengthening. Nothing happening up front at all.
I ok with personnel in defence as it is systemic and not a quality issue at the back. We will be ok……………………………………………..I hope!
Crazy bob is the most boring cunt in the hole werld.
I see your being trendy there by using the spelling ‘werld’….. mmmm
And you’re calling me a cunt?
Go and peddle some debt and gambling you #corporatebuttkissers
How is this fella going to peddle debt and gambling, ‘Bob’? Just curious.
Who said ‘M’ is a ‘he’?!
Just curious……
Maybe, maybe not…but he does make some valid points.
is he really? maybe maybe not i don’t know the guy. is he wrong with what he has said there? No he isn’t however its spun we have swapped the most lethal strike force in the League for Balotelli and Lambert. That needs addressing Chelsea bring players in from Atletico and Barcelona in the shape of Fabregas and Costa. We raid Southampton.
And that’s why they are top Steve and we are slipping further down the table. You are preaching to the converted here (re transfers), we had a massive opportunity to move forward and appear to have royally fucked it up. People say it will sort itself out, the team will improve but I cannot see that, if anything they are getting worse. It’s time for Rodgers to prove his worth and fix the many problems everyone else can see.
Last season, the teams I wanted to watch were LFC for the entertainment and MU for the fascinating car crash of the Moyessiah. I can’t watch LFC any more. They’re brutal just now. £45m for Lovren and Lallana…???
Yeah mate. Lallana was shit today wasn’t he? #tool
Surely the point here is the manager paid £25m for Lallana and in a big game at home not only does the manager start him from the bench, but even when we’re attacking (*attempting to attack) he leaves the £25m creative midfielder on the bench.
It says a lot.
£25m looks more and more expensive with every passing week. Of course, not as expensive as the £20m we forked out for Lovren.
No, it says a lot about the manager, not Lallana
It says something about both of them. It says (a) Rodgers has fucked up paying so much for him or even buying him at all (he’s our Mata) and (b) because Lallana hasn’t been very good.
I think I’m more glass half full than half empty. We’ve had problems because we don’t have strikers. That said, it’s fair to say I had more respect for Rodgers at 11 o clock this morning than I do now. It’s one thing us all coming on here talking shit about how we can improve but when we when can all clearly see what doesn’t work and the manager persists in doing it then it has to go down as slightly worrying. No imagination or guile at all. Chelsea were always going to win by one goal today. It’s an easy strategy to play against this Liverpool side and the way everyone knows they’ll set up. We all said Lucas would be a better option than Gerrard. That Toure would be better than Lovren, that Manquillo would be better than Johnson and that if you’re playing Gerrard, Henderson and Coutinho against a good side with nothing for them to hit then it’d be better to drop one for Lallana. We can’t say what would have happened if Rodgers had concurred but one can only assume it had to be better than what we witnessed. As for Mignolets kicking – it’s pathetic. Our whole defence is shocking. Has been all season (except against Madrid). Where’s Sakho? Where’s the update on his condition? Or is this a story that’s more about ego’s? If that ball bounces in our box then you can smell the fear all around you. We know how the story ends. The first goal we conceded was shocking. What were the team doing? We’ve seen it so many times now this season. That fuckin Fred West look a like is one horrible bastard too and for him pop up and score the winner was fitting for the whole day. We’re a fuckin joke!
Agreed. Very poor from the manager today. The performance on Tuesday should have given him food for thought; he bottled some big decisions today. And hooking Can when the skipper was having no influence on the game beggared belief. He simply won’t sub Gerrard under any circumstances. Poor stuff.
Where is the Rodgers of last season that would tinker with formations? I just don’t understand it. Poor signings are poor signings. I can (for the most part) live with that. But not making adjustments and doing what it takes to put these players in a position to succeed is practically inexcusable. I really hope he’s not working Gerrard into the dirt so his poor performances add up and in the summer BR will have a reason to argue why Liverpool shouldn’t resign him. I feel a bit for Kolo. Arguably the best player in red on the pitch in Madrid and it results in nothing. I really think he could be the defensive leader everyone expected Lovren to be
Great piece not sure how didnt swear. The ref was a disgrace. Lovren needs dropping. Strikers I dont no…. gotta somehow get to january. Crazy bob is a gobshite, could be a nonce as well #nosmokewithoutfire
During the week i defended Rodgers with his team selection and thought it was refreshing to see us try something different and i thought some of the fringe players deserved a chance since some of the so called first team players haven’t been doing well enough all season. In that group i would include Balotelli, Gerrard, Lovren and Johnson. I wasn’t surprised how well we played during the week and i thought some of the players during the week played so well that they had played their way into our starting line up today. Rodgers says that no one is guaranteed to play and you play based on merit. These are empty words as players are certainly not being picked on merit. I was gobsmacked today to see that our starting line up included Lovren after the brilliant performance of Toure during the week. Lovren has been at fault for goals in nearly every game this season and what a surprise again was at fault today. Also Manquillo played well and for me has been better all season than Johnson and again Johnson gets the nod. Lucas had an outstanding game and again was replaced with the inifectual Gerrard. Borini had a good game and should have started instead of Balotelli who hasn’t done anything all season to warrant being selected. Also why did we buy Lambert if he never gets a game. If Balotelli was playing well then i could understand Lambert not getting much of a look in but with Balotelli being as poor as he is then i don’t understand why Lambert doesn’t get a chance. If he doesn’t get a game when Balotelli is struggling then he’ll never get a game and for me it was a waste of time signing him if he’s never going to play. For me Rodgers should have bought a quality striker in the summer because we only have one world class striker in Sturridge. Liverpool should have 3 top class strikers and Balotelli just doesn’t come into this category. To leave us with only 1 world class striker is mismanagement. I thought Coutinho was our best player today and was showing a lot of creativity and yet when we were losing he brings off Coutinho and replaces him with Borini. Borini should have replaced Balotelli and he should have kept Coutinho on. It’s no coincidence that after Coutinho went off we lacked creativity. If Rodgers continues along this path then only a miracle will get us in the champions league next season. Maybe this miracle will come from Sturridge hitting the goal streak again but for me Rodgers should be doing a better job than he is currently. Hugely disappointed with him this season.
Agree with all that except the Lambert bit. If we’re at the point where we play Lambert because it can’t get any worse then I think there are still some better options. Just need to be less predictable about the line up. Have a look at Lallana’s 9 goals from last season. There’s a clear pattern in his play that would have suited LFC last season. Play him just behind Borini for a game (as we have no better options). See how it goes instead of picking the same side that we know is ineffective and will yield 0 points. After today, I’m disappointed with Rodgers. Wank subs too.
Drop the sacred cow that is Gerrard, please.
This is our strongest team;
Mignolet
Johnson Skrtel Sakho Moreno
Lucas
Can Coutinho
Sterling
Balotelli Sturridge.
Our captains relevance is inversely proportional to his durability. Hows that for sad irony?
Johnson????!!!!!! Are you having a laugh?? He’s abysmal! He’s the 3rd best right back at the club!! He stood in front of Cahill today and watched as he took a touch in our 6yrd box BEFORE he put it over the line! And he’s been abysmal for 2 yrs now. He shouldn’t start another league game before he leaves in Jan.
Central point being that is team is better without Gerrard than with him.
Hes just a psychological crutch
Maybe Johnson is a similar luxury, I’m not sure.
Johnson? JOHNSON????
Johnson?? He is really poor. He loses possession upfield, can’t get back, dithers when he’s in a forward position and attacks break down as a result. And Balotelli is just awful. No movement, no link play, no desire, no team ethic. Neither should play for Liverpool again this season.
As for the signings, seems Brendan is happy to let good young players go on loan and replace them with ‘prospects’ from outside the club. Jordan Ibe out on loan, Markovic in; Andre Wisdom out on loan, Manquillo in. Last season, he was about to ship Sterling out on loan til he got lucky….
There are serious issues with player recruitment and retention at Liverpool Football Club
Johnson in our best 11??!! Please, c’mon.
We haven’t got one world class player. Only Sterling and Coutinho have the potential to be world class. The rest are a lot of good/decent/poor players in the squad Brendan Rodgers has assembled. He doesn’t have a great eye for players, that’s very evident. He can’t organize a defence, that’s obvious. He struggles in Europe, that’s clear.
He has started 2 of his 3 season with a lower points tally after 10 games than Roy Hodgson. Now when is trophy laden Rafa Benitez coming back to take the smile of Mourinho’s face? He;s the best manager Liverpool can get.
‘It reminded me of New Years Day 2005. They turned up to Anfield, turned up to the north west, and won by a single with a hotly disputed handball decision, with contentious refereeing.’
Was at that when Lampard got away with injuring Alonso just because. That referee today was a joker – obviously Webb’s ready-made replacement. Henderson was having a stinker then started playing the easy option because his confidence had gone. When they’re ahead Chelsea eat lacking in confidence and going sideways for breakfast.
They are so Mourinho. Strong and snide on the pitch, obnoxious in the stands. As you alluded to Neil, they’re only Real/Barca/Munich quality in terms of playing the ball in small patches but you have to admire what a machine they are. Got all their tougher fixtures out the way and have came out undefeated on the other side.
Make it look easy building on having the best defence last season by boxing Fabregas and Costa off to create and finish the chances respectively, whereas we’re still conceding the soft goals without ever looking like we’ll get near 100-odd league goals again. Costa is fucking great with his Suarez levels of tenacity. He doesn’t have Suarez’s genius ability but that probably suits Mourinho’s sensibilities more because he’s not gonna be shooting from all angles because sometimes it could come off.
…meanwhile we are 11pts behind bloody Southampton. All to do to get it nailed down is putting it somewhat mildly!
Rodgers is fast running out of excuses. The vast majority of players are players he’s signed, he persists with 1 up top when that 1 is Balotelli and he continues to pick underperforming players.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome……this perfectly describes Rodgers team selection/tactics/formation choice at the min.
For £120 mil spent in the summer there is not one stand out player. Not one player were you can say Wow!! The defense is going backwards and still can’t defend set pieces.
If I were the owners I’d give serious consideration whether I would trust Rodgers with any more of my money.
Who else then if not Rodgers? He got us close last season, closer than anytime since1990.
He showed enough last season to be given the trust to see out his vision. Most of us will have lambasted other clubs for not giving managers time – we shouldn’t be any different.
It is like Rafa all over again in that some lfc fans are listening to rival fans and all of a sudden it is the current manager’s fault as to why we have not won the title in a QUARTER of a century!
Let’s be right, it’s no shame losing by the odd goal to a very good Chelsea team who know when to make a foul and who’s turn it is to take a card (something we need to learn). But
– why pick the team the opposition wants you to pick?
– why chose the tactics the opposition want you to chose?
Mourhino did a number on Rodgers again today, but I fear our manager’s thought process is scrambled under pressure. He needs the international break to clear his head, make a couple of decisions about his best eleven players and get a couple of wins, otherwise we know how this ends.
I remember having the same hope before the last international break. Thought Brendan would get some time to clear the picture for himself and work out some solution how to start bringing the best out of players he had signed. He did quite the opposite. Game by game, our players visibly lose confidence, lose belief, they have lost the habit of winning games. It’s like a vicious circle. Reminds me of the Hodgson times.
Gerrard shouldn’t be started. Bring him on further forward for 25 or 30 and let him give us every ounce of energy, running and shooting that he has.
For me, BR is persisting in selections and formations that clearly are not using the current playing staff in an efficient or productive manner. He persists like a stubborn and self absorbed young man who is absolutely convinced that he can make “it work”.
How one makes this black hole of a midfield into a shining light boggles the mind. How Mario on his own up front is going to work is puzzling at best. How bringing on midtable quality attacking substitutions when chasing a game will work, baffles.
The conundrum is that we often want our manager to be strong, condident, and brave–but teachable. Who does the teaching isn’t so clear. I’m not up to it. All I am is a supporter who grows more and more confused with each team selection from BR. It’s a sad thing after the exhilarating ride of last season.
Well, we got there in the end. An admittance that “Gerrard is officially a problem.” He’s been officially a problem a lot longer than a few hours. It shouldn’t have taken the best team in the country and little wizards like Oscar and Hazard to embarrass him time and again for people to see it.
He’s been babysat for too long by the likes of Lucas, Allen and Henderson. They shouldn’t have had to do his running. They should have been concentrating on playing their own game and not carrying anyone else, especially the latter two. Although Lucas at times has been lambasted for his efforts in certain games where he was everywhere and nowhere because he had the captain draped over the shoulders throughout. A 12 stone burden that he and we can’t afford.
Listen, I love Stevie. Our greatest ever player for mine. He has carried us for so long. But we can’t carry him. Football and football teams don’t work like that.
But as I’ve said before the esteem in which I hold him won’t stop me from calling it as I see it. And it was seen ages ago. It was an unpopular opinion, either because people were too thick to see it or didn’t want to see it. Here’s another unpopular opinion: we achieved what we did last season in spite of him, not because of him. He offered last season what he’s offer this – set piece delivery and no protection for anyone along the back 4. He has deteriorated again though.
People are still not putting together our insistence on keeping Gerrard in the first 11 at all costs, even moving him position, and our serious issues with putting the ball in the net. Because Gerrard now needs two minders instead of one, we lack the numbers in attack. At times due to tactics, at other times due to lads being too fatigued.
The manager needs to show balls but Im not sure he has it in him. He knows what happened to the last boss who lost the support of Gerrard (and Carragher).
Plenty of those defending Brendan’s team selection in Madrid and now very quiet. I mean, thank fuck he rested/dropped (delete one depending on which Rodgers’ interview you listen to) so many players midweek, right?
Wrong. I said on Thursday if he plays Lovren in place of Kolo it will say more about him than any of his most fiercest critics ever could. And what did he do? People are telling me he should have played Manquillo, Borini and Lucas as well, and that all he did with his team selection was confirm he was lying by saying he never rested anyone in Madrid and simultaneously smashing the motivation of the fringe players to do well. I mean, why would you bust your balls and outperform his favourites when they’re just going to start ahead of you the next time anyway? Yes I thought, but dropping Toure for Lovren was worst of all by a mile.
It’s now become fashionable to knock Lovren. I said it was a strange one in the Summer but maybe Brendan has seen something I hadn’t. Whenever I’d seen him he was a biog standard centre back to me. But then I’d heard Carra recommended him. Carra knows football. Carra knows defending. Carra knows organisation. OK, let’s see. I did see. Had a good debut, though not as good as some made out at the time. But alarm bells started going off in the next two games, particularly at Spurs. Of course, we won 3-0 and my posts on his performance on here were laughed at. No ones laughing now. (Apart from Southampton) Certainly not me.
Lovren’s levels of performance continue to drop. Week after week, game after game. And Rodgers persists. A few things summed him up today. The defending for their first, in which he and Skrtel were standing ahead of the penalty spot when Terry was nodding the ball 6 yards from goal. And when he got the ball on the halfway line with 5 minutes to go and thought it would be a good idea to try and lob it over Willian, who easily took it off him.
The continued selection of Lovren and the subsequent efforts he’s put in sums up Brendan this year. Clumsy, careless, passionless, arrogant, stubborn, stupid and quickly closing in on embarrassing. It needs to stop.
Chelsea are quality. In Matic they’ve the best player in the league on form. They’ve the best manager. I said they’d win the league and Champions League last season if they could bring in a top class striker. They didn’t and they still nearly pulled it off, with pretty much no one up front. So I disagree with Neil’s assertion that they “nowhere near as good as Real or Bayern.” We’ll see in the Spring. But the point is losing to them is not a disaster. The disaster is our complete inability to score, or even put sustained pressure on any defence.
When they went 2-1 up that was game over. We had nothing for them. Everyone knew it. It was ridiculous how an away team defending the Kop end goal were able to see it out without breaking sweat. (Well, apart from the pen shout, but as stated above we deserved fuck all) And it stems from three things, and they are all intertwined; our our disgraceful defending, our manager and our transfer dealings.
If we weren’t so bad at the back we’d be more confident about sending numbers forward and supporting the striker. Brendan said we’re defending so bad because we have too many games and as a result no coaching time. This is bullshit. He had plenty of coaching time last season and it wasn’t much better.
If the manager would drop Gerrard we would have more trust in Lucas/Can to cover any counter attack, meaning Henderson, Allen, Lallana, Sterling, Coutinho, Markovic, whoever, can get ahead of the ball and get in and around the striker.
If we hadn’t have bought so much avergeness in the Summer, or two strikers who blatantly just don’t fit, and maybe lured one top quality forward, or one who did fit, then we’d have a bit more about us and the manager might get to keep the captain in the side without too much damage.
Mignolet done ok. His pass in the 96th minute for a corner was a joke.
Johnson was poor again. Im not totally sold on Manquillo as the long term solution but he’s better than Glen at this point. Few things infuriate me more than Johnson allowing the opposition winger to skip past him on the counter without taking out the man or the ball or both. He done it away at Palace in the 3-3 for their second, and he done it today again. A full back afraid to get booked.
Skrtel. Ok.
Moreno. Bit better than ok. Been over praised so far but definitely our left back for years. Still unsure whether he’s a new tiny bit better Riise without the free kicks or much, much better than that. Depends how he develops. Depends on how we let him develop.
Can. Very good early doors, then faded. Just like in Madrid he seemed to get very tired and was sucking wind hard with 10 to go in both halves. Not unexpected for a big young lad getting first run of games in an age. Play him. Get him fit.
Gerrard. 34 years of age. Only one groin. Unlike Lampard he never had the luxury of constantly being taken off when his team were 4-0 up throughout his career. He’s just finished. But we need to admit it and move on.
Henderson. Awful. Really poor. Self proclaimed fan boy of Hendo but he hasn’t been this bad since Kenny was in charge. Reckon a spell on the sidelines wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Coutinho. Typical. Done some really lovely, clever things. Then done some really shitty, stupid things.
Sterling. Not himself. Bit better than some recent efforts.
Balotelli. He’s just not a factor. Except when he’s giving away stupid free kicks.
Borini put himself about when he came on, which is commendable and although the least you expect, is welcome given how awful we are at present up front. Lambert done his usual nothing. Allen done little. Putting the Welsh Xavi on instead of Lallana was strange. But there you go.
Sturridge isn’t fixing this catastrophe lads. And by the looks of things, neither is Rodgers. A position of major strength has been fucked up in the Summer in a way almost impossible to have thought in May, and is being compounded by most decisions the manager is making/not making.
That Lovren, Willian incident boggled the mind. I’ve rarely seen such poor defending at any level.
Realised I didn’t mention our defending at set pieces. If ever there was something to damn Rodgers, it is this. How he has been unable to get a group of players to successfully defend corners and free kicks into the box after 2 and a half years in charge is mind boggling. But it’s probably a bit redundant bringing it up at this point.
As redundant as people saying over the last few weeks “Yea well we’re still ahead of Utd, we’re still only a couple of points off fourth blah blah blah.” At least they realise it now though eh.
Johnson has been poor for a year but today was the lowest of the low. It’s like he’d never seen a football before in his life, woeful.
Henderson’s continual mouthing off at the ref gets us nowhere & he insists on giving the ball to Skrtel, aren’t the midfield there to create, not centre halves?
Skrtel – used to have one good season then one bad. He knows Costa is a wind up merchant, played against him at international level a few weeks ago, yet still got drawn into a running battle with him – brainless.
Finally Rodgers took off the best two players on the day in Can & Coutinho, the only players to come out of today’s game with any credit for me.
I said to my son at half-time, “Just watch: he’ll pull Can and Coutino when he makes his changes, he has to get Joe Allen on.” He scoffed, then blanched when it happened. It was a joke,FFS!!!
The puzzle with Brendan Rodgers is not his team selections. The puzzle is that he’s a manager at all. He was very lucky that FSG knew nothing about football, because if they had they would have noticed that his ‘manual’ only had one chapter in it. His tikka takka mantra was his only idea and it wasn’t even his.
I don’t REALLY care if we lose games – I don’t like being beaten. It’s not the same thing.
Apparently Johnson gave away possession 17 times today.
He’ll bottle the biggest decision. It may be that FSG have to make it for him. That’s been the subtext these last few weeks.
A very poor day for the manager. our defensive ineptitude was too much to bear today: we can’t defend as individuals or as a team. And the slack passing at the back…..how often did we play ourselves into trouble today? Chelsea are no Real Madrid, they weren’t special, they didn’t need to be because we kept giving them the ball.
Low points: Gerrard having his pocket picked in the build up to the first goal, Lovren having his pocket picked early in the second half, the defensive clusterfuck that led to the second goal: how many players did we have back and not one of them thought to mark Costa….the substitutions, the initial selection.
High points: Emre Can. Looks as though he could become a real player.
8 defeats in 17 matches. ..! £250 million gross spent….and still no pressure from the media ..He lucky he is not a foreign coach. .or it could be taxi shortly or already !
25 played signed. Only 2 you’d call successes.
Can’t succeed only getting 10% of your transfers right.
I said it in the summer and will repeat it. I would have used every penny of the Suarez money to replace Gerrard. Once Suarez left, the argument that this team was hard to buy for (popular on TAW) disappeared. Build something else.
Instead we’ve built a team that can’t defend and can’t create chances. Not a recipe for success.
Thank god for the int’l break. I’m couldn’t be more sad typing that but it’s true. What a 180 from last season.
Great report as usual Neil. You’re spot on in how CFC push the limit and take advantage of a weak official.
I was hoping that the things Rodgers said mid week were true and not empty rhetoric. He’s lost some credibility in my eyes. Some guys played well and worked their socks off @ Madrid and didn’t get a lock today. Why should they try if Rodgers isn’t going to reward them. He’s going to continue to pick the same guys.
I’m just confused by the whole season really. I’m confused by the transfer business done last summer and this summer. I’m confused how a club as big as LFC can be caught flat footed or be unprepared for things. I’m just confused.
Like I said…thank god for the int’l break.
They were on display for sale purposes. Lucas, in particular, has every right to be pissed off. The boy copped more shite than any player I have ever seen, and over the last couple of years he has had to cover for Gerrard and Johnson. The few games he has played this season he has starred, but to no avail. Week in week out we see Joe Allen pissing about ineffectually but he still gets games, but the likes of Toure get shafted for one error and Lucas for no errors at all. Anfield is not the place for a young manager to learn on the job; it is especially not the place for a young manager who does not learn at all.
I’ve been saying this for ages Kevin but get shouted down by the ‘Lucas is shite/crocked’ mob – probably the same ones that hated him for his first 3 years and then shut it when he became a mainstay.
Lucas should go and it pains me to say it, but he needs to go to a club that want him, because the management here don’t seem to and he needs a club where the fan base want him too. Our one natural DM and he won’t get played because we are afraid of dropping our fading talisman.
I’m glad Neil has finally mentioned the Gerrard problem but its been 18 months coming not 1 day. Be interesting to see if its picked up in the pod or if Gutmann will just dismiss it as a ‘one off’ bad game and big up Brendan’s tactical thinking and if only we’d have gotten the penno then the naysayers wouldnt be mouthing.
Regards the penalty, yes it was but so was Moreno’s so we’d have been 3-1 down at that point!.
Indeed it’s been a problem for a long, long time and to be fair to the AW boys, they have talked about it – a lot. Rob Guttman has a blind spot it’s true, but others have made the argument. I’ve posted elsewhere and been roundly castigated; but he hasn’t played well against a top team for over 2 years now: the games just pass him by. He adjusted well last season, but the long balls only work with Sturridge and Suarez in the team and, judging by our performance at White Hart Lane least season, would we have been any worse off without him in the side?
I know it’s been mentioned but the debate has been quickly moved on, nobody wanted to have THAT conversation I think even though for a lot of people, even during last season, the decline was still there, but I agree with your point Paul
“a problem for a long, long, time”.
2 years ago Gerrard was the only Englishmand voted into the Eruro 2012 squad…not by me, but by the coaches of the national teams at Euro 2012.
Last season, Gerrard was on the football writers shortlist for player of the year. That isn’t a Rob Guttman award…this comes from a mostly LFC-antipathetic press corps.
Sorry, but this is delusional nonsense. Of course you want the best for LFC, but you’re looking for easy fixes and given Gerrard is not what he once was, it’s a short leap to “he’s not good enough”.
Be careful what you wish for.
He played well in the second half of the season against smaller teams, hence my emphasis on top teams. Try to remember the last time he was influential in a big, big game: you’ll struggle, like he does.
Be careful what you wish for, you say: I am careful. I wish for better. I wish for meritocracy. I wish for an acknowledgement that no one player is bigger than the club and that all selections are based on merit, not status. Rodgers got the best out of him last season, but opposition teams have got wise to the strategy and Gerrard doesn’t have the mobility to escape his marker. Happens to us all at a certain age, no shame in it. Bob Paisley moved Cally, Tommy Smith and Ray Kennedy on when it was time. There’s no room for sentiment at the top level.
Euro 2012? Please. Every England player was awful. That’s a sentimental vote if ever there was one.
I agree that dropping Gerrard won’t solve all the team’s problems btw, (though it would solve more than you think) but it would allow the team and supporters to move on. Call it catharsis.
Today, I was most disappointed with our manager. Not the players, not Lovren, nor Gerrard or Johnson (although they all made a strong case for criticism against Chelsea). Today for me, was all about Brendan Rodgers. Earlier this week he confidently stated that his team selection for the Madrid game was justified because; 1) His “star” players were not performing, and have not been for awhile. 2) His “reserve” players were bought to augment the squad, therefore they should play (and play they did). He implied that he was not “resting” players but rather playing a team that he thought could get a result, essentially his “star” players were not rested, but actually dropped. He convinced few people that, that truly was the case (how many of us truly believe that Markovic would really be better than Sterling at the Bernabeu). But most of us were ok with it, simply because, like him, we believe that the BPL is our bread and butter and a 4th place finish this year -to sustain our progress – is of paramount importance. Nothing else even comes close. Everything else is a bonus. What also pacified the fanbase was the observation that based on his comments and the fact that we had many great performers at the Bernabeu (Toure, Lucas, Manquillo), we would see a team, selected on merit, take on the small club that is CFC.
It has to be emphasized, that the belief in meritocracy by leadership, and the belief that meritocracy actually occurs by the players is an important motivating factor in any team dynamic. “Fringe” players work harder to push the first team players for their places. Healthy competition occurs. The team gets better. If our players don’t believe that their performances will be rewarded fairly, what will push them to get better?
Today, I observed meritocracy throw out the window by Rodgers. And more than anything else, that worries me. Based on how well they performed in Madrid, Lucas should not have been replaced by Gerrard. Toure should not have been replaced by Lovren. Manquillo should not have been replaced by Johnson. Borini should not have been omitted from the first-11 (mainly because Balotelli needs support up front). It would have been easier to accept today’s team selection if our “star” players were performing, but they haven’t been doing so. Not for 2 months.
And the end-result? A game that was characterized by a dichotomous performance. I don’t know about you, but I thought that our defense did their very best to undermine what our attack was trying to do. Especially in the first half. I thought we actually looked bright when pushing forward. Once the ball got to Coutinho/Sterling/Can/Balotelli, there was movement and attempted creativity. The problem was getting the ball to the said players. Too often this season, we have seen the constant back-and-forth between our central defenders and Gerrard. And we continued to do that, even under heavy Chelsea pressure. This ultimately resulted in us giving the ball away unnecessarily for large parts of the game. Our final third was lacking, and has been for awhile. We all know that. But our first third? Its pretty shit as well. What we saw in Madrid was a cohesive defensive unit that understood the midfield, and a mobile midfield unit that covered the defense. What we saw today, couldn’t be further from the truth. Rodgers needs to really decide what’s more important; the ego’s of his favorite players and his own or the team spirit and unity that he has so many times professed to embody.
Excellent summary of the real issue.
Have to laugh sometimes.
I say Lovren’s been a joke. Outcome. Abuse. A few weeks later everyone else says the same thing. I say the Summer transfers have been an unmitigated disaster. Outcome? Abuse. A few weeks later everyone else says the same thing. I say Rodgers has been awful this season. Outcome? Abuse. A few weeks later everyone else says the same thing. I say Gerrard is a liability of monstrous proportions. Outcome? Abuse. A few weeks later everyone else says says the same thing.
Genuinely shocked so many, all at once, are posting what they’re posting. Thought it would have taken a bit longer. Then again, played 17, won 6, lost 8 and drawn 3 with a minus goal difference says plenty.
But it’s ok lads, we’re all here now. All in the same boat. It was noticeable in the ground today. Lots of people saying and whispering the same things I’ve posted on here for months. It wont be long til they start shouting it.
The first step in solving a problem is admitting we have one. Well, we have plenty. Big fuck off ones with bells on. Check this out:
http://imgur.com/r/LiverpoolFC/QBuPS3q
As I said above, 2 and a half years later that’s Brendan Rodgers’ team defending set pieces. Wow.
I was expecting my lottery numbers to come up tonight as I had predicted Rodgers’ team (Can excepted) at the end of the Real Madrid match. People talk bollocks about cowardice with his team for Tuesday. It was a team designed to do a job and they did it with courage and togetherness. Yes we lost but at least we made Madrid work a little more than their jolly at Anfield. The cowardice came today. He did not have the guts to say to Gerrard, Lovren, Henderson and co, “Sorry lads but others deserve to play in front of you today.” To ask Lucas, Toure, Lallana and co to go out against Madrid against all the odds was showing faith in them – or so it seemed. However they were sacrificed so his under performing favourites could under perform once again. How this guy can expect players to perform for him when he casually discards them for others who have dragged us into a mid table battle is baffling. Lucky for him it’s the shirt the likes of Lucas fight for, not him and his backroom buffoons.
I think a turning point occurred today. The audible discontent and bewilderment at his substitutions might be the ‘Dalglish’ moment that did for Hodgson. Unfortunately unless there is a Lazarus turn round in fortunes, he has only himself to blame. His Shankly imitating first press conference from a guy who done absolutely nothing in the game was, to me who had the privilege of watching Shankly’s teams, nauseating. He followed that with letting the press be aware of his 180 page dossier outlining how he would make Liverpool FC into a pass and move team! His constant sound bites about his ‘philospohy’ became just hot air as I have been to every home game since he arrived, a number of away games, and in two and a half years I have yet to witness a Liverpool team pass another team to death.
So how to explain last year’s joy ride? Well to me it seemed that any ‘philosophy’ was thrown out of the window based on an attacking whirlwind that had its own momentum. The defence was appalling, but with the world’s best player, a young Sterling in exhilarating form and a forward Sturridge realizing he was surrounded by players who believed in him, attack was the only option. Take away two of those players and a young man who cannot carry a team on his own and we have a manager who can’t revert to his ‘philosophy’ as he hasn’t the players. He and/or the committee compounded matters by buying a bunch of new players who have not advanced our cause. The two full backs and Can seem decent additions but the rest have question marks against them for different reasons.
So we are where we are. A manager hamstrung by his inability to construct a team that doesn’t contain an aging all time great. A backroom staff, who along with the manager, have hardly any experience running a very big club. A squad which is not balanced and which contains an A team and a B team based on who Rodgers prefers, not on performances. Owners who risked everything when appointing him and now have to back him to the hilt or start looking for alternatives. Of course there’s us, the supporters. I will give all the vocal support I can for every player who wears the shirt. I will and not call for the manager’s head, not because I’m happy or believe in him, but because that’s what is the right thing to do when you are at the match. I can’t speak for anybody else though and FSG can speak for themselves.
Emre Can is leading your man of the match vote.
WHY?
Because his two shots early on were the only good moments LFC had in the game?
This is a concerning development.
As soon as Chelsea tightened up Can was ineffective. Without the ball he does not know what to do.
He was a waste of a player for most of the game and that wasted player in midfield was one of the main reasons for defeat.
Also, Skrtel annoyed me hugely today. Moaning at the ref, moaning at Costa. Just get on with it ffs. What was he expecting with Costa, a walk in the park?
One thing’s for sure: if Rodgers can reverse this landslide of a season, he should end up being one hell of a manager. And being brutally frank about it, who, realistically, would replace him if he’s canned? Circumstances dictate pep or Klopp are unlikely to be available, so…
That said, Brendan is currently acting like a kid playing with Lego who doesn’t know whether he wants to build a Death Star or a fire engine…
“And being brutally frank about it, who, realistically, would replace him if he’s canned?”
Simeone or Rafa.
Both know a thing or two about defending. Oh, and beating financially stronger opponents.
Ancelotti (who we know isn’t at Madrid long term because Madrid….erm….don’t do long term) would be a dream.
Let’s imagine Rafa coming back to find this squad, though. What sort of team do you think he would field with these players? Or would he need to ship a load out and bring a load in just to get started?
FSG might prefer the stability (I know) of sticking with Rodgers.
Simeone’s a great call. Interesting to see what he’d do in the market.
We’re speaking hypothetically of course, but Rafa would get a lot more from this squad. Organisation and being hard to beat with limited talent (relative to the big boys) is what he does. But let’s remember there is more talent in this squad than the one he inherited the first time around.
In attack, he’s well used to having nothing up front, or using a big man (Lambert or Borini) as a pivot, the way he did with Carew at Valencia and Crouch with us.
He has no room for sentimentality – he would get rid of Gerrard right away. He would allow Lucas to do what he excels at, just shield the defence. We’d have bite and tactical discipline about us again. We’d be able to defend set pieces!
It won’t happen of course. I think FSG will stick by Brendan til December 2015 at the least. As I keep saying, I hope there is no need to remove Rodgers. I hope he turns things round. I hope we steal 4th in May and things look up again, just like between Jan-May 2013.
By then I’d imagine Simeone will be at an elite club and Rafa would probably be the absolute best we can do. If Rodgers’ did ever go, I’d want a proven manager in.
Great teams start from the back.A solid back line instills confidence in those in front of them.
I’ve been trying my best to make excuses for Mignolet.But the fact is that our biggest successes have nearly always been when when we’ve had great goalkeepers.
Think about Tommy Lawrence,Ray Clemence and Bruce Grobbelar.Then look at Mignolet.
It might seem a bit harsh but he just doesn’t inspire any confidence at all.Why parry a shot when you are falling backwards?Why try and make a two-footed challenge when the ball is a yard away from you?Great keepers fly out like a star fish when the ball is on THEIR 6 yard line.
His distribution is the worst of any goalie in the Premier.His decision making is shocking and more often than not puts his defenders into no man’s land..
I hate to criticise any Liverpool player.But at the moment we’ve got a real problem with poor old Simon
The danger here is that Brendan is rapidly turning into one of those managers that talks a good game whilst all the while the sides he picks keep losing. He can write all he likes in that pad, it’s not happening. We need a win. Fast.
Sundays results could see us truly plummet in the table, Everton, Spurs and either Newcastle or WBA win and we’re 11th.
Will the return of one player, Sturridge, be the cure-all? I want it to be, I REALLY want it to be but I’ve always firmly believed that the one player team was bullshit and I’m not changing my mind now. A goalscorer will be a boost though and boy do we need it. Top 4? 5th or 6th looks a tall order at the moment.
In Brendan we trust. The fecker.
Oh and Chris – if you were chocolate you’d eat yourself. Over three quarters of your post is gracing us with a round trip of your ego. I didn’t give two hoots what you thought before, even less so now. Stick to FIFA.
Three quarters huh? Not great at maths are you softlad?
If you don’t like what I say, don’t read my post. Thing is though, you know I’m right so you will read. Good lad. x
In my opinion Gerrard is Liverpool’s greatest ever player, and I have seen them all from Billy Liddell on. If SG is not ‘nursed’ (and he isn’t being nursed) them
He is finished as a top player, and that is really sad. When Shankly came, almost his first act was to drop Liddell, a player he loved and admired, but he saw the need. The player was in his late thirties but an absolute icon, and his dropping was front page news.
SG hasb limited the growth of both Henderson and Lucas, and is not even being used effectively now anyway. He could play for two or three more years as an impact player, but that needs a manager with tactical skills. Tactics is not replacing one player with another who merely plays the same style, but that is what we get from Rodgers. For two years we have had a dodgy goalkeeper and a resultant nervous midfield , with an aging iconic captain. And all we watch is ‘exciting http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fcs-jordan-rossiter-line-7814934
Graeme Souness.
I’m so glad I wait before posting after a defeat. It means you avoid some of the knee-jerk defeatism you see from many posters here.
Chelsea were light years ahead of us today, but they were just as dominant at Utd until they stopped playing for the last 15 mins and same at City. They should have won both those games and of course turned over the blue shite 3-6. They are comfortably one of the best teams in Europe right now, heading the second tier behind Real and Bayern alongside the likes of PSG and Barca. Seeing how City are imploding – even *we* beat QPR – I suspect they’ll win this league by early April. Point being, our season will not be defined by how we fare in our games with Chelsea. They are not our rivals for anything. Don’t get me wrong; we were poor today, but better teams than us will be made to look poor by Chelsea this season. With the addition of Costa and Fabregas, they are close to the complete team.
I have to say I was disappointed to see Neil has jumped on the Gerrard bandwagon. Hope it was the ale talking. Gary Lineker said it well (and you won’t hear me say that very often). When you reach a certain age, you’re not allowed to have a poor/ineffectual/slightly below par game without it being axiomatically assumed you’re over the hill. Young players have poor games all the time and the analysis is done and reasons are found for why that is. If you’re still playing at 33, the only reason you don’t single-handedly win games for your team is because “your legs have gome”. It’s intellectual laziness writ large. Gerrard was short-listed for player of the year last year, and as recently as last weekend was easily our best player. The competition was pretty shit, to be sure, but the fact remains there were 10 other players at Newcastle who were worse than Gerrard. Today I can think of half-a-dozen players I’d easily rate below SG, yet we have to read this “we have to talk about Stevie” shite. If any fans are looking at LFC right now and think our captain is even in the top 6 of things that need to be addressed, they are watching different games to those I’m watching.
Can looks good for 45 mins, but ia a million miles away from being able to do 90mins in te EPL. The fitness just isn’t there. That’s not terminal and I think we’ve got a player in there when he ramps up the fitness and gets to the speed of the EPL, but right now he’s a 60min player at best.
Henderson is miles off at the moment. I think this is a product of our general play and low confidence all round, but the trickier things get in a game the less effective he is. I don’t think he made a forward pass in the second half. His default is to return the ball when it came, even if there’s no opponent on his shoulder. It’s an abdication of responsibility, which in turn means the responsibility for some creativity is shifted elsewhere (Gerrard). To be clear, I’m a big Henderson fan and stuck with him when he first came as I’d seen a lot of him at Sunderland and knew there was a player in there – I still think that, by the way. But it’s insane the way all his bad games are explained away as “having to do Gerrard’s running”. No, he just had a bad game. Even players in their mid-twenties are allowed to have bad games that are no-one else’s fault.
Coutinho is completely hit and miss, but at least there’s potential for a defence-splitting pass/penetrating run. He’s as likely to disappear down a blind alley as he is to make a goal assist, but given the alternatives I’d still persist with him. And that’s even allowing for the fact he is responsible for the second goal. There is no way on God’s green earth Azpilicueta should get by him. Reverse those roles – on either flank – and Ivanovic and Azpilicueta have their opposing number sitting in row 3, regardless of where the ball ends up. I can’t imagine what the commentary would have been if that had been Gerrard who’d allowed Azpilicueta to make that cross. Wait a minute…actually I can.
LFC’s midfield was totally overrun today by a far better team, but even then it was only Gerrard who even attempted to make passes that might actually take us somewhere as opped to simply taking the easy sideways option. It’s almost as if Gerrard is being judged against that barnstorming 2005-2009 standard that made him the best all-round midfielder in the world, rather than against his 2014 playing partners.
“You mean you are no longer capable of those 30 yard runs culminating in 25-yard top-corner specials that single-handedly haul your multi-deficient team over the line week in, week out? In that case, you’re dropped”.
Forget the defence for just a second (I don’t think we’ve defended that badly in the last two games given the calibre of the opposition, and Skrtel did as well against Costa today as any centre-half this season) – Liverpool are as blunt as a ham sandwich going forward right now. Hull, Newcastle and then this week. 360mins of football in which we looked barely capable of scoring, and yet people are calling for the head of the guy who is still our best passer of the ball?
Be careful waht you wish for, is what I say.
Our next game is at Crystal Palace in two weeks. That will tell us an awful lot more about where we are and where we’re headed than today’s game. Top four is the realistic aspiration and I don’t look around at the likes of Arsenal, Utd, City and Spurs and tremble at the prospect of mixing it with those teams. We have work to do for sure, but this season is still alive.
I watched the Festival of Remembrance tonight. I swear to God, if I had to share a trench with some of you on this thread, I think I’d deseert. But not before I’d put a bullet between the eyes of that egomaniac “Chris”.
I admire you optimism Brownie, mate. I try and stay that way myself. I agree reason is in short supply with football fans, particularly straight after a big match, but that’s not exclusive to the negative ones. We’ve started calling it an agenda now but if someone doesn’t like Rodgers, say, then it doesn’t take much effort to turn every bad thing that happens in his direction. We make the narrative fit the agenda. Likewise, we might feel we use reason at all times and want everything at the club to be alright to such an extent we miss the glaringly obvious. Be careful you don’t fall into that trap mate. Sometimes you have accept the truth.
This isn’t ‘knee jerk defeatism’. We’re nearly a third through the season now and we’ve lost more than we’ve won. We’ve conceded more than we’ve scored. After 11 games that’s not a blip. It a pattern. What’s more, you seem to suggest this outpouring of dejection is a result of the Chelsea game and yes, they are a good team but what you’ve failed to grasp is the opposition was irrelevant. The issue is we’re seeing the same abject, unfathomable football week after week. The same decisions week after week. Today was no different to QPR, Hull and Newcastle. Don’t tell me those teams have a good solid midfield. We’re lucky to come out of those games with 4 goals with the amount of opportunities we’ve created even if in the days before the ‘if the shot is on target’ rule they’d have all been classed as own goals.
The fingers are being pointed at players. That will always be the case in a poor patch. Let’s not judge on today though. Let’s look at the whole season. ‘Henderson is allowed an off game’. Has he played well in any match this season? My memory fades pretty quick regarding past matches so forgive me but I can’t think of one very good game he’s had. His goal against West Brom was a lovely finish. ‘Coutinho always got a defence splitting pass in him’. Has he played one this season? Again I’m not sure but I can’t think of one. I agree with you though, these are brilliant players. So, what’s going on? Why are this team and these players doing so badly? Well, I think a lot of our problems are down to having no strikers. For me, it explains why the midfield aren’t creating. Henderson kept going back because he couldn’t see the pass ahead and gradually lost confidence. Coutinho has done well. He’s run at defences and opened them up recently but the final ball has been missing. He needs movement ahead of him. That’s not the full story though is it mate?
Getting strikers doesn’t solve all our problems. Far from it. From the back to the front we’re a shambles. At some point Gerrard will become not good enough for the team. It’s the law of nature. When will that be? Well, it’s not something you can scientifically predict. The only evidence we have is what we see on the pitch. Does he contribute to the team enough to merit a place. Contribute means his overall game though. I’m trying to make a point rather than trying to patronise you but if someone scores 1 goal a game and makes mistakes leading to 5 opposition goals then you wouldn’t say he contributes 1 a game so deserves his place. I’m not saying Gerard does, I’m trying to say that his visible contribution in games is waning anyway but the overall picture of his game asks more questions than it reassures. This isn’t new either. Before Christmas last season saw the same debate. I feel Rodgers managed him well and found solutions and after Christmas he was brilliant. This season it’s unravelled. Being one of our best players (which he was) among complete shite is not necessarily a saving grace. So what do we do? We could play him less and keep him fresher. We could reinvent his role again as an impact sub. There are options where we can get the best out of him. My own view is we have to have an eye on the future. If like the end of last season he deserves his place on merit then he has to play. I don’t think he does at the minute so it’s only right the question is asked.
The biggest problem that’s emerged recently in all this though, and one I’m convinced you don’t want to believe is not the personnel on the pitch, it’s not the defence and lack of strikers – it’s the question of what Rodgers is doing to try and solve the issues. You can defend him all you like but he’s not helping himself. Ok, you didn’t want to see Toure for Lovren against Chelsea but most would argue not only does Rodgers decision to play Lovren demoralise Toure but it has a demoralising effect on the whole team from youth to first team. There has to be the feeling that doing well can produce rewards. Borini and Lucas probably feel disappointed too. The worst of it was the continuation of a system that hasn’t been working. It was all so predictable and flat. Can you not see that? It’s been all season.
So, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that this isn’t a knee jerk reaction from everything but actually valid concerns.
Oh there are some valid concerns right now, for sure. But equally there is plenty of “we’re doomed” hyperbole. Spurs and Arsenal lost today and the blue shite drew. We’re 4 off fourth.
And if you read the other threads you’ll see I advocated changing things a bit for the Chelsea game. I actually would have found a place for Lucas, just not at the expense of Gerrard. I wanted Gerrard further up the pitch and Sterling up top with Balotelli. I’m not a Rodgers fanboy who thinks he’s beyonpd reproach, but neither have I reached the ‘baby out with the bathwater’ point. And I’m not saying I’m convinced things will get better. They may do, but they may not. But they may do, too.
It’s one thing to call for a change in personnel here, or a tweak to formation there, but all this ‘Rodgers has lost it/players don’t care’ stuff is not for me. And I’m not a great believer in good players becoming shite overnight, either.
I don’t buy this we’re 1 point off fourth, we’re 2 points off fourth, we’re 4 points off fourth any more. We’re 15 off top and 11 off second. Yes, others have been equally poor but in some ways that makes it worse. We could have been right up there.
You may or may not know I haven’t really criticised Rodgers before this weekend apart from the odd remark. Yesterday was the day I couldn’t defend him in my heart any longer. I don’t like to see anyone unravelling, especially the Liverpool manager but that’s what’s happening. Mario on his own clearly doesn’t work. I really hoped he would ”go for it’ against Chelsea. Stick his neck out. He stayed mute and sent the same old rubbish out. I was disappointed.
Actually, I was, too. I wanted something different – at the very least something Mourinho wouldn’t have assumed or predicted, so I share your disappointment. But that doesn’t lead me to a point where I’ve lost total faith, or won’t be prepared to defend him against what I think are unfair criticisms.
So the abuse has gone from “you’re a manc” to “you’re wrong, your talking shite” to “you’ve got a pessimistic world view” to “fuck off and post somewhere else” and now it’s “you’re an egomaniac and I’d love to put a bullet between your eyes.”
A bit strong that final one. Says more about the person who stated it than it does me. It’s fine though. I’m not much good with guns Brownie, but if you’re up for a bit of unarmed combat I’m sure we can arrange something. As long as we agree that I stop when I want, not when you want. Im only 5 foot 8 and 11 stone so you’ll fancy your chances. All I’ll bring is a brown belt in Brazilain Jiu-jitsu. You can bring your swears to your imaginary genocidal maniac who supposedly inhabits the sky.
Just like the manager, no one has the balls to admit they were wrong. No one wants to dissect my posts and point out where I am or have been wrong. People just want to go straight to insults because they don’t like what they’re reading, mainly because they know it’s the truth.
The proof is there. I’ve been right the whole time. Wish I wasn’t. Wish I was made to look a pillock. But most of you were wrong. Facts are facts. And don’t come back and give me the same shit Jim Boardman has had to deal with on twitter. The “you’d rather be right than watch Liverpool win” idiots. I think it’s clear from my posts how much I love the club and wish it to be a success. Just accept my pessimism since the Summer has been very well placed.
Brownie, your last few sentences aside, I enjoy reading your posts. I agree with a majority of a lot of them.
But the idea Gerrard isn’t a problem is ridiculous. He is 34 by the way, not 33. He’ll be 35 come seasons end. 35. But in footballing years, because of how he carried us, because he never got rotated much, he is much older. He has also had some serious injuries, including a complicated surgery on his groin which made him a different footballer altogether. His age has since compounded that.
“When you reach a certain age, you’re not allowed to have a poor/ineffectual/slightly below par game without it being axiomatically assumed you’re over the hill.”
—
But it’s not one bad game is it? It’s not just a dip in form for 3 or 4 games, is it? Its been a steady, slow decline starting about 2 years ago until this point.
“Young players have poor games all the time and the analysis is done and reasons are found for why that is.”
—
That same analysis has been done with Gerrard. It’s clear to anyone who has watched him over the years he neither has the endurance or the speed he once had. Unless your claiming otherwise? If you are not, then the reason you are not, is Gerrard’s age. Tell me this, why does he need to have a babysitter if age hasn’t seriously affected his performance? Why can’t he do what he’s asked to do on his own? Why has been moved positions in the last 2 years? Surely if his performance in one role was fine he wouldn’t be moved about?
You understand no one is blaming him, yes? That we don’t expect Stevie to have power over ‘Father Time?’ That it’s normal for an all action midfielder to start regressing badly in his mid-30’s? The problem is it’s been hushed up and glossed over for a while but now it’s a major issue in fundamentally stopping us winning football matches consistently so it must be addressed. The blame lies with the manager who refuses to.
“Today I can think of half-a-dozen players I’d easily rate below SG, yet we have to read this “we have to talk about Stevie” shite. If any fans are looking at LFC right now and think our captain is even in the top 6 of things that need to be addressed, they are watching different games to those I’m watching.”
—
Tell you what, get your top 6 in your head. Then realise if you drop Stevie some of those issues go away. Like our centre backs would then get more protection? We concede less, they get more confident, they play better, we concede less again etc. Like we can get at least one more man in all attacks? Our strikers get more space, may score a goal, get more confident, they score more etc.
Of course Im not saying dropping Gerrard solves all our issues in one stroke. But it starts the process of solving them. And we need to start somewhere.
Right or wrong mate, I think those comments were tongue in cheek. Don’t take it to heart. We’re all passionate about the team and probably all have strong opinions, more so after another defeat. I fell out with my best mate again yesterday arguing over yesterdays match. Its pathetic i know, but if we see each other today then it won’t be mentioned. It’s just one of them. Chin up mate
Chris, I don’t have time for this right now, but very quickly the “bullet” comment was an extension of the metaphor; you know, remembrance, the wars, in the trenches, desertion, etc.. Still not nice and I’ll happily apologise, but it wasn’t like I just threatened to put a bullet in in your head in the abstract. I get carried away with my literary flourishes sometimes. So shoot me (see what I mean?).
The best I can do with the time available is to ask you to reread your last two paragraphs. Dropping Gerrard simultaneously makes us better in attack and defence, but you agree dropping him “doesn’t solve all our problems”. Actually, you do believe that: in football, if you score more and concede less that is “addressing all your problems”.
You do realise that if you take Gerrard out, you can only bring one other in? Thought it was worth checking.
I’ll reply more this evening when I have time.
Oh, and challenging people online to ‘real world’ fights is as naff as it gets, and also pretty dumb when you think of some of the nutters out there. You may have a brown belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu (is that better than Austrian jiu-jitsu?), but I have a GCSE in Woodwork. So screw you (literally…as in with a screwdriver :-)).
No answers to the specific points I’ve raised because you’re too busy. No problem with that, perhaps you’ll come back to it another time.
Yes, dropping Gerrard makes us better in both attack and defense. Spurs 0-5 Liverpool for example. Remember that? Where did the ageless one play that day?
No, it won’t solve all out problems. If we need a 60% improvement in defense and a 50% improvement in attack, and Gerrard’s removal only improves both by 20% then obviously it doesn’t solve all our problems. Not rocket science.
I said it was a start on solving some issues. Certain other problems can only be sorted during transfer windows and the manager getting a grip. And yes, I do realise only we can only replace him with one player. But that’s all we need because he is contributing less than one whole footballer.
If Lucas or Can comes in what do we lose and what do we gain?
We don’t lose set piece delivery, Henderson’s are as good but doesn’t get the chance to show it often. See both games against Spurs last season. Balo can take peno’s, he’s good at them. We don’t lose long passing ability because Stevie doesn’t have it anymore. When was the last time he played a glorious 60 yard ball that split a defense or effected change on the game? What else is there? Leadership? Our heads go down so easily when we’re behind. What else? Short passing? No, all our centre mids are at the same standard. Height? A bit, but is winning the odd header as vital as being skint 40 yards from goal and exposing Lovren again?
Tell you what we gain. Men. Bodies. Not afraid to go forward because they have to hold the captain’s hand. A defense properly protected and not got at so easily. Ground covered. No one carrying anyone else. Everyone with a job to do – their own job to do. Shape. No right backs being forced infield to help the skipper, leaving Coutinho to be out-muscled down the wing leading to more goals conceded. A fresh start.
PS: I talk to people on here as if I would talk to them on street. If someone imitates they’d like to shoot me in the head for little more than giving my opinion on my football club, I’m going to respond. And just to help you with your ignorance (as I do with certain matters pertaining to LFC) BJJ is the most evolved, important and greatest martial art in the world. GIYF.
FFS, Chris, check out the other threads. I already spend too much time “responding to the points you raise”. It’s comments like that which are responsible for you copping half the shit you do. It’s got nothing to do with you speaking the uncomfortable truth, rather it’s this arrogant belief you have that everybody else is left flummoxed by your uniquely insightful analysis. I think you’re guilty of confusing people not agreeing with your analysis with not engaging with your analysis. And for what it’s worth, it’s not so much your analysis that I have a problem with (e.g. you’ve never once recevied “abuse for saying Lovren played shit”), it’s more then conclusions that flow from that analysis and the way you present them (e.g. plenty will agree Lovren has been playing shit, but that does not mean he will continue to play like shit, that there aren’t extenuating circumstances for him playing shit, or that he’ll continue to play shit for the rest of his time at Liverpool).
One of your points is that Gerrard has been in steady decline for the last 2 years. That’s an interesting one, in that it could be both factually correct, and also completely irrelevant as to whether he deserves a place in this Liverpool team. Gerrard had somnewhat further to fall than any other player he’s currently playing with given the standards he set. His game has changed in those 2 years, certainly, but to a level that means he should be left out? As I’ve written elsewhere, he was shortlisted for player of the year last year. At the end of the City game we won in April that left us 4 games from the EPL title, where you with your “two years of steady decline” stuff? I don’t recall coming across a Gerrard playing obituary every other comment the way I do now. So, respectfully, whether he’s declined in 2 years or otherwise, he’s still plenty good enough for *this* Liverpool team.
Almost all of your commentary on Gerrard above is predicated on your own misunderstanding and misapprehension of my views. I don’t deny Gerrard’s game has needed to change, nor that we’ve looked for a balance in midfield to accommodate his strengths and weaknesses. I don’t know where you got the idea otherwise – certainly not from me. Every midfield is a blend of talents and different skill-sets. Why do you think the Chelsea midfield yesterday can find room for both a Fabregas and Matic? Anyone may concude that a different mix would better for Liverpool than one that includes Gerrard. I might disagree, but it’s fine as a philosophy. But your “babysitter” crap is an indication you have a problem with the principle of striving to find a blend to begin with, one that means if you include player X you might also consider player y because y fills the void in the play in of x. That is the basis upon which all successful midfields are bullt, however flawed you might believe this approach to be.
Gerrard seems to be almost unique in world football, in that according to you he’s a midfielder not only repsonsible for his own level of play, but that of every other midfielder playing with him (and right backs, too, now). If Gerrard has a poor game, it’s Gerrard’s fault. If Henderson, or Allen, or Coutinho has a poor game, it’s still Gerrard’s fault, because they only had poor games trying to make up for Gerrard’s deficiencies. That’s what is known as having all bases covered and there is no merit in any argument that is built on such disingenuous thinking. That way lies analysis such as yours above that lays the blame for Chelsea’s winning goal at Gerrard’s door because Coutinho let Azpilicueta “out-muscle” him on the touch line.
When the arguments against Gerrard are that desperate, I think my time would be better spent not engaging with your points. If you’re seriously going to blame him for that, you’ll blame him anything and everything. You’ve stopped analysing (if you ever started) and no level of intellectual gymnastics is too great that you won’t perform it, so long as the blame for whatever happens can be laid at Gerrard’s door.
Gerrard not playing when we win at Spurs last season – proves your point. Gerrard playing when we win at Spurs this season – um, er, you’re still right. Somehow, some way.
Oh, and I very much doubt you talk to people on here as you do on the street. Or maybe you, which would explain why you had to learn a martial art.
But he isn’t our best passer of the ball.
Go on, humour me.
Lucas is a much better passer of the ball. As is Coutinho when he’s on form. You mistake long passing for good passing. Stevie’s a good long passer but he loses the ball a lot and seldom plays the killer ball these days (not that anyone else does……) Passing wise, he peaked with Torres: they were wonderful together.
Sorry, but outside of those who’ve already concluded that Gerrard needs to go, there’s scarecely anyone in world football would agree with that assessment The only sense in which Gerrard’s passing is less accurate than that of Lucas, Coutinho, Henderson or anyone else in the Liverpool team, is those others wouldn’t even think of attemtpting some of the passing Gerrard does. I’m not talking about 60 yard cross-field passes into the stride of the striker, either. I’m talking about those 20 yard foward passes that link play and launch an attack even when they’re not directly responsiible for an assist.
If you ever meet Sturridge, you should ask him whether he’d fancy his chances of scoring more with or without Gerrard in the team.
My last post was truncated. I said all we seem to target is ‘exciting wingers’.
Every manager has to have a huge ego – it goes with the job. And although I don’t like Mourinho much, and didn’t like Cloughie much, I acknowledge them as great managers, because they had the skills. Brendan hasn’t. His only skill is self-publicity.
Just like to say that we all have opinions on LFC – we all sit here and think ‘they are wrong, they are right, I agree or I don’t agree”
But to say that you’d put a bullet between someones eyes or intimate that they are a ‘nonce’ as Chris has had in these replies is a shocker, some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and whomever is modding this for TAW should look to be deleting some of this shit.
Its football, we all have opinions and at the end of the day we all want Liverpool FC to be the best but some of this nasty personal crap is beyond the pale. Disgusting.
Chris and Bob I meant, not just Chris. Still not right.
If Bob comes on here and adds an opinion about football then any ‘opinion’ should be respected. Please don’t expect anyone to respect his incessant trolling though. He’s the one that’s getting personal. There’s no need for it. The worst of it is most of us enjoying commenting on here yet I feel embarrassed of late that I comment on here. Why? Because Bobs comments make it appear like I’m commenting on a site for trolls. We’re all guilty of poor some comments but Bob’s agenda is a completely different thing. In saying that, he does seem to be commenting on football more recently.
Still no need to call him a name like that IMHO
This is getting out of hand. Not one of us can say we did not enjoy the trip that was last season. Brendan has stirred up some serious shit with his selections, and to assume he would use a game at the Bernabau as a shop window beggars belief. Never did I think I would welcome an international break. The shit that has hit the fan these last few weeks is heartbreaking. Gerrard feels neglected, Comolli was sacked because of The Hendo purchase,, scouts are sacked, on and on. Surely Brendan has no wish to commit ritual Seppuku in order to prolong the careers of Johnson and Stevie? How many millions have the two accumulated playing for LFC?
If he garnered any wisdom at Jose’s feet it should be enough is enough. If he feels bullied then he is not the man for the job, but we as fans have to do all we can to make sure we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t give a fuck who “owns” LFC. This is an institution not an asset. Brendan will show his hand, he will be a believer or a pawn. We can only hope he has received the message.
Turd would still be shit no matter how well it is polished. Putting on rose tinted glasses whilst doing it does not help in any way.
Read somewhere Lucas is being courted by Napoli. Will not blame him if he leaves.
In the end we are all entitled to an opinion, and some good (and bad!) points arise when the arguments rage. I confess I have never warmed to Rodgers and likely never will. I believed from the outset that he was something of a fraud, and his ‘three envelopes’ struck me as the sort of thing you do with under 12s. I am quite prepared to be proven wrong, in fact would welcome it. I said a year ago that Sterling would never make it and that by now we would have even forgotten his name – I am delighted to admit I was wrong. But my opinion of Brendan has hardened – he is just not up to it.
Just back from the cinema and checked out the footie results.
We are 4 points off fourth, 3 behind Arsenal, 2 behind the Mancs and level with Sprus and the blue shite.
We should all just shoot ourselves now as, clearly, all is lost.
I strongly assume your comment is tongue in cheek and purely sarcastic (but I had to ask because you never know with some supporters these days!?). If that is the case then your comment is the best I’ve seen today. I think it’s great we’re giving the manager time to learn and adjust. He’s not fucking stupid. He’ll turn this around. He’s shown it already that he can. In Brendan we trust. Look at Pardew now!!??
Similar comments were made a few weeks ago.
“Yea well we’re still ahead of Utd! Yea well we’re only a point behind Arsenal!”
It’s such a fucking cop out. As Paul said on the podcast, why say “we are crap but we’re a little bit more crap than some and little bit less crap than others?’ What the fuck does that achieve? So what? Should the point not be that we are crap. That’s it. We are crap full stop. And it needs to change.
Is it more likely to change if you’re going around saying “things are fine, others are crap too,” or is it more likely to change is you say “right lads, we’ve serious fucking issues here, we need to sort it out now or we’re fucked because Utd and Arsenal won’t be crap forever and Southampton might be due a bad run but are so far clear they can afford it at this stage?”
Why are you using other teams struggling badly – and still doing better than us – as the bench mark? What would you be saying if Arsenal and Utd were doing fine and we were deservedly 12 points off 4th?
We gave Southampton the guts of £50m for three players, they lost another six players, and they lost their manager, yet we are 11 points behind them after 11 games. 11 points. 11 games. They have more excuses than us but aren’t using them. Know why? They have no need to.
If we lose our next 3 and everyone else draws, will you say still be saying we’ll we’re only 7 points off 4th and we’re not even in December yet so calm down lads, things will be fine, there’s still plenty of games left? Scratch that, I think I know your answer.
Now, for some reason it won’t let me reply to your above comment, so I will do it here.
“It’s got nothing to do with you speaking the uncomfortable truth, rather it’s this arrogant belief you have that everybody else is left flummoxed by your uniquely insightful analysis.”
Bullshit. Everyone is now saying what I have been for weeks and months. It was the truth then as it is now. That’s been proven on here. What’s changed is that results haven’t and the idiot “let’s always be positive no matter what” crowd were either too thick to see what I was saying or didn’t want to. Now they have no choice. It is fucking moronic it took a defeat to the best team in the league for people to wake up. Some, like you, who continue to peddle the “but but but but we’re only 4 points off 4th tagline” still aren’t awake.
“I think you’re guilty of confusing people not agreeing with your analysis with not engaging with your analysis.”
Bollocks. I say Im worried about Lovren’s ability after we win 3-0 at Spurs because he does x and y and doesn’t do z, and I get told Im a Utd supporter and a troll. Is that engaging with my analysis? I say Rodgers is making mistakes week after week and get told to fuck off and post elsewhere. Is that engaging with my analysis?
“e.g. plenty will agree Lovren has been playing shit, but that does not mean he will continue to play like shit, that there aren’t extenuating circumstances for him playing shit, or that he’ll continue to play shit for the rest of his time at Liverpool”
(a) He is playing shit and I saw it even when people were praising him as the second Sami Hyypia in his first few games.
(b) He is getting no protection in front of him – does that count as extenuating circumstances? Still doesn’t explain away mistiming simple headers and thinking he can skin Willian on the halfway line.
(c) I’ve never once stated he’ll always be shit at Liverpool. In that right set up he could become adequate.
“As I’ve written elsewhere, he was shortlisted for player of the year last year. At the end of the City game we won in April that left us 4 games from the EPL title, where you with your “two years of steady decline” stuff? ”
This is simple stuff. He was shortlisted due to romance that we might actually win the title and give him as captain the one trophy he never had, especially as he was coming to the end of his career playing for a footballing institution/sleeping giant who had once dominated English football but not been champions in nearly a quarter of a century. It had nothing to do with meritocracy. It was bollocks and anyone with decent eyesight and a half objective brain could see and admit it. He was barely in our top 6 players last season, never mind the league’s top 6! Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge and Henderson we’re 100% better. As Robin pointed out, he was appalling before Christmas last season, and when was the last time he had a really positive impact against a good team? And the idea anyone would say anything negative about him or any Liverpool player after that City game is hilariously redundant. It’s a bit like saying we’re only 4 points off 4th after 8 defeats in 17 games and 3 losses in a row….
“he’s still plenty good enough for *this* Liverpool team.”
When you have Neil Atkinson, a man so positive he thought we were better than Real Madrid in the second half in the Bernabeu, now stating Gerrard is officially a problem, then you know your argument is in trouble. He is not good enough for all the reasons listed above and below. If you’re good enough you don’t need others to do your job for you, it’s that simple.
“Why do you think the Chelsea midfield yesterday can find room for both a Fabregas and Matic? ”
This is crazy talk. Comparing our issues with a past his best 34 year old who can’t run in our midfield, who needs others to do his job for him, to two players in their prime, who both have a specific job to do (one create, the other shield), who both do their job excellently with no one else’s help, is mind boggling.
“But your “babysitter” crap is an indication you have a problem with the principle of striving to find a blend”
More crazy talk. All midfields, all teams, are about a blend. But if someone’s negatives far outweigh the positives, REGARDLESS OF THEIR PLACE IN LFC FOLKLORE – then it is time they were dropped. Simple. And the mere fact you can’t bring yourself to see he has needed a babysitter says oh so much about you and your arguments.
“Gerrard seems to be almost unique in world football, in that according to you he’s a midfielder not only repsonsible for his own level of play, but that of every other midfielder playing with him (and right backs, too, now). That way lies analysis such as yours above that lays the blame for Chelsea’s winning goal at Gerrard’s door because Coutinho let Azpilicueta “out-muscle” him on the touch line.”
You listened to the latest podcast, yes? You heard Neil (massive Gerrard supporter) say he was sat by the dugout and heard the manager asking our right back to move positionally into centre midfield to help Steven, which directly led to our small creative Brazilian finding himself overpowered by a much physically stronger opponent, leading directly to a losing goal at Anfield? You realise that that happened right and it’s not a figment of Neil’s, my or anyone else’s imagination, yea?
If Johnson and Henderson and Can etc are having to move themselves or keep themselves closer to Steven more and more, instead of focusing on what they should or would otherwise be doing, then Steven’s presence is affecting others performances. That is so basic to understand. But as I’ve stated before, the major blame in all this lies with the manager. It’s Brendan who doesn’t have the balls to drop Gerrard.
“Oh, and I very much doubt you talk to people on here as you do on the street. Or maybe you, which would explain why you had to learn a martial art.”
Majority of people on the street or in pubs don’t act like morons when they hear something they don’t like. They don’t tell you to get out of the pub etc when you disagree with something. There was no need about learning BJJ. There was a want. You should try it. No need to talk about shooting people in the head or anything if you know how to choke them out in 90 seconds flat.
“It’s such a fucking cop out. As Paul said on the podcast, why say “we are crap but we’re a little bit more crap than some and little bit less crap than others?’ What the fuck does that achieve? So what? Should the point not be that we are crap. That’s it. We are crap full stop. And it needs to change. ”
We’ve been here before. We’re in a competition. My first preference is for us to get top 4 playing LFC 5-0 Forest type football, wiping the floor with all-comers. My next preference is for us to get top 4 playing any type of football that gets us there. How many times has it been written on this blog that getting top 4 is paramount given the additional money and how missing out will set us back years? Another 5 before we return? So it matters a great deal how we’re doing relative to others. In fact, that’s more important than anything else, including whether the football meets someone’s subjective definition of “great”.
“Is it more likely to change if you’re going around saying “things are fine, others are crap too,” or is it more likely to change is you say “right lads, we’ve serious fucking issues here, we need to sort it out now or we’re fucked because Utd and Arsenal won’t be crap forever and Southampton might be due a bad run but are so far clear they can afford it at this stage?””
The realistic objective this year was top 4. When you’re only 4pts outside the top 4 with 27 games left, getting in there remains a realistic objective. Them’s just the facts, and acknowledging them doesn’t mean you’re blind to the reality that you are not playing at the level you aspire to, or that certain changes should be made, or that certain players should be sold/bought, etc., etc.. There’s no mutual exclusivity here.
“What would you be saying if Arsenal and Utd were doing fine and we were deservedly 12 points off 4th?”
If my Uncle Pat had tits he’d be my Auntie Mary. Alternatively, they’re not and we’re not. And you’re on record as saying a resurgent Utd are going to steamroller past us at any second. You first came out with that weeks ago and they’re a mighty two points ahead, having spent the second largest amount of money in world football during the summer.
“If we lose our next 3 and everyone else draws, will you say still be saying we’ll we’re only 7 points off 4th and we’re not even in December yet so calm down lads, things will be fine, there’s still plenty of games left? Scratch that, I think I know your answer.”
Not at all. If things get worse, I’ll get angrier and more despondent. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to work? I read things like your comment here and it’s as if you’re pissed off that not everybody is willing to join you in your world of despair. If we win our next 3 and everyone else draws, will you still be saying that everything’s turned to shit and that the Mancs are on the cusp of overhauling us…any…minute…now…?
“Everyone is now saying what I have been for weeks and months.”
You need to get help for that, pal. As it happens, there have been plenty of others who’ve shared your “glass half-empty” view of things from weeks ago. I should know as I’ve corresponded with them. So you were never alone in what you said, just mostly how you said it. Which probably explains why you’ve received comments about being a Manc and troll, etc., although I’ve never levelled those accusations at you. I’m not responsible for how others have or haven’t “engaged with your analysis”, but I certainly have (or at least tried to). But when you asking people to apologise to you for doubting your wisdom as you were after 10 league games – as if everything had been settled by that point: no cups, no top 4, no CL qualification, no improvement in general play, etc. – why should you expect anything other scorn in return? You can’t claim vindication after 10 games, or even 11, or even 25 for that matter. You’re too busy patting yourself on the back to notice that nothing has yet been decided.
Right now, I’m no better than 50/50 that we’ll get top 4. If we don’t win at Palace, that might slip to 45/55 against. Don’t take me for some naive fan who’s convinced everything will turn out okay, because I’m not. But right now, as shite as we’ve been at times this season, I see no reason to jump on board Chris’ bandwagon of doom, and part of the reason for that is most of our main rivals for top 4 have been equally shite. You’ve already indicated that this doesn’t matter to you, but it does to me.
“As Robin pointed out, [Gerrard] was appalling before Christmas last season, and when was the last time he had a really positive impact against a good team? And the idea anyone would say anything negative about him or any Liverpool player after that City game is hilariously redundant.”
I see what you did there:
You: “when was the last time he had a really positive impact against a good team?”
Me: Why Chris, the last time LFC played really well against a good team – the 3-2 win over City about 15 league games ago.
You: “The City game doesn’t count”
Oh. Well I guess you win, then, Chris. I didn’t realise that you got to dismiss inconvenient facts on a whim.
The reason no one would say anything negative about Gerrard after the City game is because they would look like an absolute twat if they did. Because, you see, he played well. Really well, in fact. I realise this is uncomfortable for the narrative you’re trying to peddle, but I’m afraid it’s a matter of historical record that Gerrard played well in our victory over City, including providing an assist for Skrtel’s goal. There are links online and everything.
Re Chelsea’s second goal, I don’t care what Neil says or anyone else. Apart from some LFC fans on some LFC blogs, there’s not a single football watcher drawing breath in the world today who is blaming Gerrard for Chelsea’s second. Literally, not one. Players get asked to move about the pitch all the time to help X out here or Y out there. It happens when players are 34 and 24 and everywhere in between. The point is that there *was* cover for Azpilicueta. Coutinho was there. He was in position. But firstly he turns to appeal for offside when he should be closing, and then when he does close he decelerates because we wrongly assumes the ball is going out. And then he gets done by Azpilicueta who has sensed that Coutinho has switched off. He doesn’t get “out-muscled” – there is barely any contact and the contact that does come is a vain attempt by Coutinho to foul Azpilicueta once he gets in front.
I’m not ragging on Coutinho. I like Coutinho. But he should have won the ball – he was as close as Azpilicueta – or cleared the player out. He did neither and he carries the can. As I’ve already said, imagine that’s Gerrard out on the touchline with Azpilicueta getting taken to the cleaners like that? You’d have ejaculated at the prospect of writing about how Gerrard was skinned.
I would still pick Gerrard, but I’m not totally impervious to the arguments for his exclusion. But when someone comes to me with claims that Chelsea’s second is his fault, and that he hasn’t had a good game against good opposition for eons because the last good game he and the team played against good opposition somehow doesn’t count, I know I’m not faced with a rational argument but an implacable Gerrard detractor who will bend any fact to support his ‘Gerrard out’ crusade.
A couple of points arising out of that deflecting avoid-the-points-I- can’t-answer-at-all-costs retort.
Gerrard did not play well against City in April. He was ok, but wouldn’t have been without Henderson who was a freak that day. It is possible to win without 11 players performing you know.
And I notice you never disagreed that we had at least 4 players superior to him last season, so your argument about his inclusion in the “top 6” players in the league (nomination for player of the year) doesn’t stack up as it was clearly all about romance and not in any way based on reality. There were at least 20 better performers in the league last year and we all know that. I can give you a list if you really want. Bottom line is I could give you 6 names more deserving of Steven being nominated, which again renders your point moot. But you know that – that’s why you never picked up on it.
That’s what you do – know Im right but can’t bring yourself to admit it. Like the Johnson/Gerrard thing.
“I don’t care what Neil says or anyone else”
That sums you and your arguments up better than I ever could. You don’t “care” or want to know about anything that counts as evidence against your position or in support of mine.
Here you have cast iron proof from someone who just last week was loath to criticise the captain, but saw and heard for himself the manager ask Johnson to babysit Gerrard. That happened, ok? It isn’t made up. It’s not the fantasy of some delusional Gerrard hater. It was witnessed and reported by someone who loves Steven dearly. But you still will not accept it. That fucking happened, and it wouldn’t have happened if we replaced Gerrard with someone who wasn’t such a liability/someone we could trust to perform and do his job. We would have had a right back doing right back things, not a small creative attacking midfielder doing right back things and inevitably coming up short, leading to us conceding a losing goal at Anfield.
That’s why I was right in saying Gerrard needs a babysitter. That’s why it’s not “crap” as you maintain. That’s why I was right in saying he is affecting us in both defence and attack. That’s why I was right in saying Gerrard should be dropped. You can’t get much more crystal clear proof than that one instance but still you don’t want to see it, because it would mean you were wrong.
“But firstly he turns to appeal for offside when he should be closing, and then when he does close he decelerates because we wrongly assumes the ball is going out. And then he gets done by Azpilicueta who has sensed that Coutinho has switched off. He doesn’t get “out-muscled””
Look at it again. Johnson, as per the managers wishes, is central and goal side of Hazard with Gerrard in front. Coutinho puts his hand in the air when the ball is in flight but is still fine positionally. He even looks back to see if he has cover after Azpilicueta’s touch. He see’s none so knows he can’t dive in. Azpilicueta’s touch is poor, but contrary to your belief Coutinho does not decelerate thinking the ball is going out. That is bollocks. He wants to hold him up and give Johnson enough time to get across to support him. But he is square on and flat footed. He’s not used to playing full back you see and wouldn’t have had to had Gerrard been able to do his job properly. In any case this allows Azpilicueta to knock it past him. He turns and for 6 or 7 yards is hip to hip with Azpilicueta but is too small and doesn’t have the upper body strength to get across him or shoulder him off the ball. Azpilicueta barges in front, crosses, goal. That’s what happened.
Say Coutinho should have been better if you like, but just as I don’t expect a deadly touch and finish in the opposition penalty box from Skrtle, I don’t expect Coutinho to be able to defend well enough in those situations.
“You’d have ejaculated at the prospect of writing about how Gerrard was skinned.”
Eh? Did you watch the match? He was skinned time and again by Hazard in particular and never even got close to laying a glove on him he’s that far gone. And there was no ejaculation, at the match or on here. As I said above, it is fucking moronic it took little wizards like Oscar and Hazard and a fantastic team like Chelsea for most LFC fans to see “Gerrard is officially a problem.” Then again some like you still can’t see it. Thankfully though, you’re becoming the minority.
And if enough of us point such things out, as was the case on Saturday after the double substitution, then eventually the til now bollockless manager will have to choose between the fans/his job and his destructive loyalty to his favourites, of which Steven is certainly one.
“And I notice you never disagreed that we had at least 4 players superior to him last season, so your argument about his inclusion in the “top 6″ players in the league (nomination for player of the year) doesn’t stack up”
Chris, if I wanted to take the time out to respond to every one of your points I disagreed with I’d have to give up my job and go live on Iona.
“know Im right”
Yeah, we’ve all got that message, Chris. You’re none to shy about proclaiming victory for yourself – it’s been picked up on, fella.
Fourth is on. Have faith boys, have faith. Quit whining and get behind your manager. Remember when Carroll still played for us? You wouldn’t have dreamed of being in the Champions league, never mind mounting a serious title challenge.
Chris and Brownie, you should both grow up a bit. You’re taking things too far. Just enjoy the site for what it is and remember this is a community.
Excellent stuff lad!
Sorry Mate,Carroll doesn”t play for us now.And Alberto,Assaidi,Aspas,(this is just alphabetical sequence) there are many,many others who don’t play for us now and a lot of others who never played for us before or since.
Who signed Suarez?
Comoli.
Excellent stuff lad!
Would have been a shame if this thread had ended on 99 comments.