A cold, cold night. A proper cold. Crisp, not dank. Supplements your bones rather than making them ache. Christ, I love Eastern Europe at this time of year. We try to come here every year. Makes winter real in a way another downpour doesn’t.
Sofia was plain odd on the day. There was no sense of any Ludogorets supporters, no sense of a game happening. We didn’t see any all day in town.
However, on the approach to the ground what is also noticeable is the sale of Bulgarian flags. Not Ludogorets flags, but Bulgarian. They are playing in the national stadium. They are a national team in this setting.
Somehow we ended up in the corporate. We’d been looking for two together and these were the two we ended up with. Specifics redacted to protect the innocent. It was fascinating to be in the corporate because you can see our end as an outsider. Hear it as an outsider. It’s a great blaze in a flat venue but the Bulgarians warmed to their task as the game wore on with an increasing racket.
The line up fascinating. Starts out as Gerrard off Lambert. Two holding, the fulls advanced.
Opening goal looks dreadful. Liverpool susceptible. The goalkeeper culpable. Surrounded by Ludogorets supporters overjoyed. Great in the corporate. Not neutral. But that’s fine.
Brockle observes on five that Ludogorets are a small side. It’s true, I didn’t notice in the Anfield game but all over the pitch Liverpool are two or three inches taller than their opponents.
Liverpool turned the screw after conceding. It didn’t need a whole lot of turning being fair, but Liverpool were bright and good to the edge of the box. A hopeful ball becomes more and Lambo has two in two. My celebration unconfined. Perhaps it should have been slightly confined. Let’s make the corporate lively…
On 12 I turn to Brockle and say “Allen has started brightly.” She says my running chatter is why she doesn’t come the game with me and that I clap like a giant. My running chatter is nervous. Liverpool are in a game.
On 13 Gerrard plays a big one to Manquillo. He loses possession. From there until 20 the game belongs to the hosts. Liverpool seem happy to give up set pieces. Maybe, given the height advantage, they are less threatened. Maybe the converse with hopeful balls. They can make more of them. One of these things, it transpires, is wrong.
Henderson spends the half constantly looking to run beyond and it is great to see. It gives Liverpool a threat in the back of the Bulgarian minds. They can’t push endlessly on Lambert and Gerrard in this shape which verges on a conventional 4-4-2. They have Henderson’s movement and Sterling’s pace to contend with.
Everyone has the pitch to contend with. It’s interesting how many of the Ludogorets good touches which come on the half volley. Flicks and clips around the corner. They’ve played here before.
The second is terrific. It had its roots in what had gone before. Two or three times Liverpool had almost won the ball back high and been penalised or unlucky. Then they were neither and they exploded. Sterling terrific, Henderson certain. Two one and you could see what it meant. This Liverpool side was taking itself and its business more seriously than it has for a while. Half time and a job was half done.
Straight after half time you could see the pitch was becoming icy under the feet of the players. Cold. So very cold.
On 53 as no one came back from the corporate facilities Brockle asked me if everyone else had fucked it off. We were practically alone for the first 10 minutes of the second half and Liverpool looked increasingly in control. Sterling’s lightly paddling stride had Ludogorets always on the back foot but forays forward from the home side combined with remarkable homer refereeing and Liverpool’s inherent vulnerability meant you never felt entirely at ease. Henderson missed a sitter from six yards (Ed – albeit that the ref had blown a moment before) and that unease only mounts in those circumstances.
In the second half Sterling was often so advanced it was more of a 4-3-3 than the flatter four of the first half. He was very much tasked with pinning them back. As the half wore on the question became if Liverpool had done enough to try to put the game beyond the home side. The answer, for all their improvement in terms of workrate and character, has to be no.
Skrtel was undone too easily around 70, but Liverpool’s break was terrific. It signalled the game was becoming stretched. There was further pressure from the home side but Liverpool again repelled them and the game seemed under their spell by about the 80th minute. Sterling then spurned another excellent chance and it reinvigorated the Bulgarians. It was his last impact, Moreno replaced him in a Houllier flourish which had Liverpool’s left further solidified in theory. In theory. In practice it meant Liverpool had less threat to pin Ludogorets back.
Rodgers claimed after the game that Sterling had stomach pains.
Leiva and Allen had spent much of the game taking turns to step up and harry to good effect. Liverpool’s whole spine made a great deal more sense than it has for a while. Yet they were to be undone at a set piece by the smaller team which they’d failed to learn from during the game. The consequences of that late equaliser were, given the result in Basel, negligible in real terms, but it was a shame not to see Liverpool battle their way to three points. However a Liverpool win would have been harsh on Ludogorets who have lit this group up in a way neither Liverpool nor Basel have managed. It would have felt massive for the Reds though.
Liverpool can come away from the game just, very much just, pleased with their day’s work in the current context. That is, they fought for one another and didn’t look short of answers to the most brutal questions. They looked short of inspiration and while Gerrard and Lambert worked hard, neither had the magic or acceleration to really terrify their direct opponents. Skrtel remained ropey but the back four felt better. The centre midfield two looked very much like something with both brains and a sense of responsibility, if also a way from perfect.
Liverpool’s qualification is in their hands. Any win does the business. The football out the way Sofia can be enjoyed further. Wrap up warm obviously. But it has to be enjoyed with gusto. If Liverpool fail to use this performance in the proper cold as a vague blueprint for further improvement there might not be any of these occasions next season. The season that should have started against Palace might perhaps have started against Ludogorets. The proof of that particular pudding will be in the eating against Stoke. Last time Lucas Leiva and Kolo Toure deserved persevering with and it didn’t happen.
It surely has to this time.
Pics: David Rawcliffe
Fair enough assessment, the last line is the key one.
Decent result in the end. Lucas and Kolo are improvements and should keep their places. Great to see Sterling find a bit of form and Lambert was very good. He might not be able to run but has a good touch and uses the ball well. It helps that his team mates have an idea where he’ll be and what he’ll do with the ball too. Scored one, instrumental in the other. Top marks, really pleased for him. Might have been worth giving him a run a little earlier, he does all the things Gerrard can do as a forward and offers more of a goal threat. He may well be better at free kicks these days too. He’s good in the air, links the play well and is positionally sound. Play someone with pace off Rickie and we might actually offer a goal threat for the first time since Sturridge’s injury. Give him a run in the side.
Gerrard was ok tonight, though I’d rather see any one of Lallana, Coutinho or Borini play up with Rickie. He and Gerrard must be one of the slowest forward lines we’ve ever put out (apologies to Erik Meijer, Sean Dundee, Peter Crouch, Andy Carroll and Fernando Morientes). Still he pulled of some nice touches without offering much of a threat. I was very amused to hear Martin Tyler refer to a ‘rampaging’ Steven Gerrard: has he watched any football since 2010?
Improved performance. But Lambert and Gerrard together? That was about as slow a strike force as we could have put out.
Lucas is a better holder than Gerrard even if he’s far from perfect, he’s too slow and gives away daft free kicks, but he does sense and snuff out danger and uses the ball well. He has an excellent touch in tight situations.
Which leaves us with the perennial question: where does Banquo Gerrard fit into this team? The answer is obvious to all but one man.
Another diabolical substitution btw. What was he thinking. The game was crying out for Coutinho at that stage. He and Sterling are a real threat once games become stretched.
Agree! Esp the last line! Sometimes i do not know what goes thrugh the gaffers head. WHY on earth bring out a left back and stick him in wing forward when he has lallana and couts on the bench. Straight sub,. coutinho for sterling. I’m certain that was a turning point. As you said we ceased all pressing up front as gerrard and lambo two 30+ guys CANNOT do that at that stage of the game, so lets make it easier and take off sterling as well. After that it was corner after corner and i knew we would let on in, i mean even toure cant do the work of four defenders. Sterling up there is what made ludo hang back, they couldn’t give a toss about moreno. coutinho might have carried that same psychological impact. anyway tonight is not a night for complaints. We did what shanks/paisley did draw away and smash em at home. Lets do the second part of that and we are in the next round. Against stoke though, seriously, we need to “rest” migs and have a plan b for gerrard as well, as that his still not a great pos for him to play. More and more the bench seems to be his best spot, but since hes legend its ok to carry him…but not to the pint of losing matches.
This is all about doing things for one another. Help you and your team-mates out. Brendan can help himself by persevering with Lucas and Kolo. Allen has found 7/10’s. Gerrard further forward at least has some sense to it. They all need more movement though. Henderson was doing the running of more than one man and Gerrard was firing it into Lambert too often. Mario’s injury could well have come at the right time because he has just gone under the surface and could help himself to a rejuvenated reds in a few weeks time.
We’ll beat Basel by the way.
Jesus Neil, thank god for you.
You’re quite right, it wasn’t great but being over there you’ve probably had better things to do than read the bile on Twitter (or more accurately it’s too cold to mess about on a phone). Anyone would think it was the worst performance since 1953 if they hadn’t watched it but read about it on Twitter. It wasn’t. Once one starts though they all wind each other up. I think most enjoy it. I think there’s an attitude of ‘last thing I want is to see LFC go behind but if we do I’d rather it be a Mignolet error, or Gerrard’s fault, or as a result of a Rodgers change, or Lovren’s fault. It doesn’t matter what the game or what the occurrence the first thing they look for is their scapegoat. As long as it makes me look like I’ve been right for years and I’m ITK. Fuck off!
On about 87 minutes I thought if we hold on here it’s been a decent performance. Some good signs from players we’ve seen very little of this season. There were errors all over the pitch but overall I didn’t have that feeling of fear every time they got the ball in the final third (unless it was near Mignolet), even if they gave us reason to a few times. I also thought, if we concede then it all implodes and we are as shit as we think. The manner of it was hard to take. Absolutely shambolic. What’s that now, 13 from set pieces this season. It’s beyond belief and raises a lot of questions. I can still remember the positives though.
So, I think it was a mixed performance, not absolutely shite as is being implied. People are thinking they’re clever by mentioning what a small club Ludogorets are. We’re not in the 1990’s any more. There’s no easy games in the CL or in Eastern Europe now. Ludogorets are on the rise. The best possible outcome from tonight was – need to beat Basle to progress. That’s where we’re at. The worst scenario was the first domino falling. As it is, we can still get this season back on track. Although, a lot of that will depend on Rodgers.
Regarding Rodgers, it’s so difficult to know how I feel. I want him to succeed. I pray that he does. I enjoyed his passion on the sideline tonight. I criticised him on Sunday for his air of defeat. I got a warm glow when I saw how much Henderson’s goal meant to him followed by Rodgers celebration. A lot’s been made of his words used in the press conference. What do people expect? Post match interviews are an obligation only. It’s no time for honesty. We saw that Sunday and it was embarrassing. If he’d have come out and said ‘ha, we defended like the Keystone cops at times and our keeper is unbelievably wank. Maybe I need to look at how we defend set pieces because we’re becoming a joke, then what message would that give out? Surely, it’s not only better that he bigs us up but he doesn’t really have much choice. He did say Sterling was injured and if that is the case then the sub made sense to me.
So, I’m not too down about the performance. I’m more concerned about what’s going on off the pitch. That’s where my anger comes in. The club comes first, not someone’s ego. It’s clear we’re suffering on the pitch as a result of games being played off it. It’s a dangerous game to play though. I can see how poor some decisions are. I can see how poor some players are performing, I can see how inexplicably bad we defend set pieces. I can see the games being played off the pitch. One thing I’m not doing though is secretly feeling happy about it because it gives me an excuse to moan and say I told ya so. All we need to do is take 3 points on Saturday. Do that and there’s still hope. These bad spells can end as quickly as they began.
Love the first paragraph, Robin. Agree entirely. There was plank on the phone-in claiming to be a season-ticket holder saying he hoped we lost against Basel…presumably so he can tell everyone he’s right about Rodgers/Gerrard/Lovren/Johnson/take yer pick.
Tossers!
That’s Twitter for you Robin, I genuinely have no idea why people engage with it. Bad for the old blood pressure.
Good post, as usual, as was Mark’s before you. It was an improved performance, it felt much more controlled even if it didn’t always look it! Had we a better keeper we’d have won that game and that’s an areas of the pitch we can improve come January.
Do you think Mourinho will give us Čech? On the basis that we’re no threat? :-)
Ha! Someone mischievously suggested putting Steve in goal. His distribution would be better!
It wouldn’t matter who the manager is, twitter, facebook and a lot of these forums were invented for people to moan on. The people that are pleading for Rafa Benitez return are the very ones who would have been destroying him on social media (if it had existed) during him tenure here. That’s what’s good about TAW, the articles are nearly always excellent and well argued, even if you don’t always agreed with them. Same goes for the commentators on here.
The performance was a little better last night, but I thought Steven was absolutely knackered near the end. Brendan had only used one substitution, I really don’t understand why he couldn’t have brought on fresh legs up front.
I think the reason I mentioned it was only because it was from people you’d expect better from. Not the lunatic fringe. One of the problems of Twitter is it’s given status to people who are actually bellends. They try and suppress it to live up to their billing but it comes across in the end.
I thought tonight was ok at best – yes an improvement, but just ok. Maybe quite soon we could actually field a defence of Flannagan Toure Sakho and Moreno. I’d even suggest Jones in goal whilst Mingolet takes a time out. May not be the most flamboyant of defences but would certainly involve characters who would actually defend (Assuming Moreno has learnt from his mistakes to date ) . Skrtel has gone under the radar so far this season despite being a walking OG/ accident per game etc
Then we could attempt to win ugly. The front 6 of tonight, with Lallana and Coutinho (and the returning Sturridge) should then be tasked with firstly, getting clean sheets and then doing the business in front of goal
The Basel game will be tough, but let’s go about Stoke next with some purpose and gumption and believe that we can actually win a game over 90 minutes
“We ended up in the corporate” – ha! A certain person we’re not allowed to mention has always accused you of that!
Funny you say that, I’d questioned myself whether you were Bob in a new guise.
What happened to bob?
He became persona non grata because of his incessant trolling. Last seen on Twitter complaining there was too much chicken in the Anfield Wrap, lol. I may be wrong but I thought you appeared around the time of his disappearance. ‘Crazy’ Bob, ‘Big’ Jim, both abusing the contributors (and me, haha). Apologies for associating you with that nutter but it crossed my mind last week.
I think you’ll find you abused me first….
Yeah, that’s probably a fair assumption, apologies.
Yeah. I too thought that was better than we have seen recently. Still a bit lightweight, still brutally nervy. But with a slight whiff of direction and shape in possession.
And at least *some* changes were made to the line-up. Not all of the changes I’d have liked. But that’s absolutely fine. Brendan knows multiples more about football than I do.
The advantages of not having SG at DM are manifold. His direct defensive frailties are well discussed. But other benefits were again evident today:
1. My biggest frustration when he plays DM is the 25m-radius event horizon around him, inside of which other players’ autonomy and volition cannot exist. He just stands there oozing history and gravitas, and the ball is sucked toward him.
At the sharp end of the pitch, with less time, players seem to react more instinctively and this seems not to be a problem.
2. He wasn’t hurting the shape today. Other players had a much clearer idea of what their roles were. If Stevie was playing at the base, does Jordan still get in the six yard box to make it 2-1? Maybe. It felt as though we had a man more than usual in the opponents half.
Hey ho. I thought he played ok. Was he better than Couts or Lallana could have been in the role? Hmmmm. Should he have played 90? Probably not.
Anyway. In a match which we all agree BR was trying to win, he has TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT. This is progress.
It is. But he’ll lose a lot of good will if he reverts to type at the weekend again. Let’s hope he learns from this.
Great point about Jordan there – he’s always been effective when he gets a chance to pop up unexpectedly in the opponents area, but definitely hasn’t been doing that much this season. Feeling a need to cover for Gerrard defensively may well have something to do with it.
Tiny, tiny shoots of recovery???
Well at least Rodgers made changes by dropping Lovren, bringing Lucas in and moving Gerrard further up the pitch although I’m far from convinced that’s where he should be.
Kolo and and Lucas arnt the answers but they are the answer right now and that’ll have to do.
Completely baffled as to why we spent £12mil on a leftback only to leave him out for our last 2 matches and instead put in our worst performing rightback! Mental!
Although Moreno hardly covered himself in glory when he fell asleep for the flick on that led to the goal!!
I’m also baffled as to why Gerrard HAS to play 90mins of every match. On 65 I was saying to my mate Gerrard needs taken off for Lallana or Coutinho. It made even less sense to keep him on when Sterling went off. So for the closing mins when we were holding on for a win, when we needed the ball up the pitch we had a strike force with a combined age of 66!!! Zero legs between them at that stage!
Another set piece goal too. Nearly half of all goals we’ve conceded this year have been from set pieces and we’ve had that weakness for over 2 yrs now. The less said about Mignolet for the first the better. Another keeper now is a must!
I’d have Sakho in for Sat if fit, I’d have Gerrard starting from the bench maybe making an impact later in the game and I’d have Johnson polishing boots somewhere.
Gotta agree with Robin above, I’m more worried about what going on off the pitch than on it at the min!
I’m not upset by the result. No damage done and on we go.
Take the positives. Maybe, just maybe, BR has belatedly realised Plan A was not working.
Dropping Lovren and shoving Stevie further up is a start.
Hopefully BR now doesn’t revert back to Plan A but much like last season has stumbled upon a formation and team that fits our current situation and gives us a much more solid base to build on.
I think even taking the limitations of the squad into account, there’s still more he can do to get the best out of this current situation.
Agreed. You’d want Moreno, Can and Lallana back at the weekend.
Hi Paul,
Where do you fit those 2 (Chan & LLana) lads into the system? Who drops out? SG and which other? Lucas and Allen did fine for me and this weekend is not going to be pretty.
Well Can’s a must because of his size. Depends on the system. It occurs to me that in Lambert we finally have a striker comfortable in Brendan’s preferred 4-3-3. I’d have Sterling (if fit) and Borini or Hendo running off him. Midfield of Lucas, Can and Henderson/Allen with Coutinho from the bench.
In the short term I’d give Lambert a run as a no10/pivot with quicker players breaking from midfield and/or the flanks depending on the system. He’s more of a Sheringham type than a Carroll. Brings others into the game. He and Lallana have a good connection so I’d be looking to start them together as often as possible.
One of those matches when it’s difficult to know how to feel afterwards. Like others, I see, maybe, green shoots of recovery, but as Neil says we’ll know whether that’s an hallucination after Stoke on Saturday.
Whilst I preferred the shape, I still didn’t think we looked any more solid through the middle. I was watching between my fingers for most of the match. I mentioned to Paul earlier that in transition we look more fragile than a baby deer with rickets (and I’m saying it again because I like that line). With Lucas, Henderson and Allen all starting deeper than Gerrard, that shouldn’t have been the case. If tonight demonstrated anything, it’s that our defensive frailties don’t start and end with Gerrard in the DM role. Ludo had 18 attempts on goal and forced 11 corners and were well worth their draw even if Mignolet didn’t have a whole load of saves to make.
I thought Lambert was MoM. Sterling was great in patches and is always a threat, but he’s still running down a lot of blind alleys and losing possession a little too much – but he’s not even feckin’ 20 until next month. He’s still our diamond and potentially a world star of the future. Pretty certain he was injured when he came off. They seemed to think so both on the TV and the radio. Otherwise I agree the substitution doesn’t make much sense. Just hope he’s okay for Stoke.
I thought Gerrard did well and knitted play together effectively when we had the ball. Sterling should have scored from his set up. I think people are missing the point when they talk about the lack of speed of our front two because this was never intended as a conventional 4-4-2. As Neil says, the full-backs were pushed up and Sterling and Henderson were clearly working to a brief that asked them to run in behind whenever they could.
I know I’ll probably have to go into a witness protection program after I type the next sentence, but I thought Johnson did well tonight. I know nothing about the opposite numbers Manquillo and Johnsson were facing, but certainly Ludo got much more joy down the former’s flank. And Johnson was at least working hard to supplement the attack when the opportunity was there. Certainly didn’t see him do too much wrong.
I do slightly disagree with Neil’s Skrtel assessment. I thought he did okay and on the whole was more assured than Toure, who was poor for the first goal. In fact, Lucas wasn’t great and allowed himself to get wrong side of his opponent (I wonder what would be written if that had been pensioner Gerrard who had lost his midfield runner and been left in his wake?). But both Toure and Lucas did improve after that shaky start, as did the team, which says something about their and our character if nothing else. We could have witnessed an implosion after they scored so early but we didn’t. Small mercies and all that.
I think 7 out of 10 if fair enough, but we can’t start this team against Stoke. At home against a perennial mid-table opponent when we’re trying to get the season back on track we have to start with something more expansive, if only slightly so. I’d bring in Lallana for Allen with Gerrard playing where Allen did today and Lallana playing where Gerrard did. Starting Coutinho against Stoke I don’t think is a good idea but he could be a game-changer from the bench on 60/65. Who he comes on for? Depends who’s playing shite.
You’ve also got to consider whether Lambert is going to be as effective against Shawcross et al, although I agree it would be rough to drop him and after 2 in 2, I don’t see Rodgers even looking at that.
I’d also pick Johnson after tonight, although not instead of Moreno. I’d put him back on the right and bring Moreno back. Manquillo is not doing too much wrong, but against Stoke’s goons I think Johnson’s superior physicality is needed.
Interesting discussions on the radio after the game. Lawrenson can piss me off royally with his safe chumminess, but he was pretty decent tonight. Talking about confidence and how just having a shaky keeper can work its way into the brains of the defence and spread like a cancer through the rest of the team. But just as quickly as confidence can be lost and seem to hamper decision-making all over the field, so it can be won back and suddenly you’re playing like a different team again. It was also pointed out that the only teams who can claim to have done well so far this season are Chelsea, West Ham and Southampton. Can’t really argue with that.
At some point, you’d expect Arsenal, Spurs and the Mancs to start to improve, but there are fansites out there tonight where followers of those clubs are saying the same about us.
We haven’t become shite overnight.
Oh Brownie! You wouldn’t play Lucas and Gerrard next to each other would you? Come now, you’ve already acknowledged that’s not a good idea.
Agree with the rest of your post, poor on transitions. Lucas and Kolo weren’t great for the first goal but they improved and we’re always going to a big ring rusty given their lack of playing time. They’re not long-term solutions but they’re the best available right now. I can accept the front two for this one-off game, but its not a long-term solution given that Lambert can do all the things Stevie can (these days) with added goal threat. He needs a runner playing off him, he’s much more a Sheringham type than an Andy Carroll manqué. Looks like another desperate attempt to shoehorn Gerrard into the team to me, but, he did little wrong last night, just doesn’t add much.
Not next to each other, but they can play in the same team. As it happens, I think the point is moot as I strongly suspect Rodgers has already had a word with Gerrard and he won’t play against Stoke on the basis that 3 games in 7 days – when the third is likely to be the most physical of the three – is too big an ask. I reckon you’ll see Lallana and Can come in for Gerrard and Allen. Although that will change if Sterling doesn’t recover from whatever knock he’s got.
But Allen was next to Lucas…..
Have a look at Johnson stats versus Manquillos for the season so far. Tackles won, defensive mistakes, crosses cut out, interceptions etc and Manquillo is head and shoulders above Johnson in all areas. Manquillo is above average for fullbacks while Johnson is below. One of Johnson biggest strengths was his athleticism and that has wained considerably.
While Moreno looks promising he has made 3 defensive errors that have led to goals in his limited time on the
pitch this season. More than any fullback. He is not performing well either. It’s very worrying.
this is so much better then the shite on twitter. Cool head, talking about the match. Much better shape all together and the ref was a plonker. We need to keep the spine the same.
I’d like to see Can get a run against Stoke. He looks a big lad who can play a bit.
Lucas offers 100% every game but he does my head in with those soft free kicks he gives away 20-25yds out.
Combined with Skrtel you’re risking death by setpiece vs Stoke.
Re the free kicks: he does that at least once a game and always has done.
The biggest prob with this team is gerrard. Legend yes. Now Passenger yes. Br is doing everything to make the man play. Admirable loyalty but it wont win u games. Today at 2-1 gerrard should have come off, cuts and lallana on. they would have had the legs to stretch ludo and keep them worried, insted we were like a punch drunk bxer hanging on for the knockout blow. It didnt quite come we took plenty of damaging bodyshots we coulda avoided and a final score of 2-2, also could have been avoided. Its fine, really. All i want is fr brendon to LEARN going forward. A wise man never stops learning. Now if bren repeats all his mistakes of the past three months against stoke i will personally greet him at the stadium exit, tar and feathers in hand. He has gotta AT THE VERY LEAST, take gerrard off, COME ON!!!!! Full 90? with another 30 year old? Stoke will hammer is 2 goals at the end because they are better than ludo, bigger and stronger as well. PLEASE i implore you brendon, when we get precious precious goals, be ruthless in defending them. no pint in swearing afterwards, just do the right thing DAMMIT! If you do, WE WILL WIN.
Gerrard was a passenger last night? Really? I genuinely think the Gerrard situation has reached “John Barnes is always shit for England” proportions. It pretty much doesn’t matter how he plays, he’s going to get traduced regardless. Our best chance of the match was Sterling’s 1-on-1 after great work by Gerrard. It could and should have been 3-1, but we don’t even get the chance if Gerrard isn’t on the pitch at this stage.
Dunno wot game you were watchin son, but yes vs Ludo, HE WAS A PASSENGER. FACT.
Rodgers is on his third season, spend around £220 million, and is no better than Hodgson. Clearly last season was a fluke thanks to Sturridge, Suarez and a mobile midfield. He’s proven to be an excellent salesman for himself. He needs to man up or go. It’s either him or Gerrard, and it’s clear who wears the trousers at the club.
@paul . No victory since mid-November with United plummeting towards the First Division relegation zone, the word was out that defeat would see Ferguson Fired. Before the Cup tie against Forest, United suffered a 2-1 defeat at home to a Crystal Palace,a team routed 9-0 at Liverpool just three months before. Mirroring the growing disenchantment towards Ferguson from the terraces, a banner was unfurled on the Stretford End which read, ‘3 Years of Excuses and It’s Still Crap. Ta Ra Fergie!’ Lets give Brendon some time shall we. Let history repeat itself at LIVERPOOL
I remeber that game i was watching it, hoping they lose!!!!!! I remeber thinking if fergie goes thats it, thats the end of united. they to had all the top managers of the time lined up in reserve, they had howard kendall, bobby robson (RIP) but even then i knew it would be fergie that made the difference, and whether they kept him r not. I felt if they fired one more manager they would stumble and crash from one mess into another no matter how much cash or changes they invested united would NEVER recover. Thats why we must now stick with rodgers. We simply cannot rip up the playbook every time we screw up no matter how tempting it is. Rome was not built in a day and neither were the shankly/paisley or fergie dynasties. I feel the same now, if we toss brendon out i think we will stumble from one mess to another for another 20 years. No idea whether brendon will turn it around or not, but we owe it to him and ourselves to give him some time.
Gerrard ok, the man has to play n matter what according to the brendon rodgers rulebook. Fair enugh, he has carried the club, now the club must carry him. BUT MIGNOLET???? Why must he play? LOL…The guy is a disaster! Forgetting the fumbles, bobbles, crap distribution, what annoys me the most is his refusal to come out for crosses, corners or even attempt to. We were an inch or two taller than Ludograts all over the field, and YET we concede a goal from a corner? UNACCEPTABLE. Especially when you consider if we had a REAL keeper he would have come out and collected that before it ever got dangerous enough to let possibly the last guy you want ever dealing with a dangerous cross, mr glen johnson. SIGHS. Brendon Rodgers is a very talented coach, no doubt, but he needs to just play guys on merit and stop over complicating matters with false loyalty and trying to play guys he bought into form etc because in the end thats what will get him fired if he doesnt change.
It was better. Marginally. It was a gritty performance with a goal that would have graced last season.
But (and isn’t there always at least one) it was nervy. Was Toure really a step up from Lovren? At times he looks like Bambi on Ice. Shouts a lot…I’ll give you that. What was that business of the “back header” in the second half? Well we all know the defence is crap, so I’ll leave it there.
Couldn’t believe Brendan didn’t use all his subs on a strength sapping pitch like that. Looked like Raheem needed replacing after being clattered a couple of times (don’t start me on the ref). But the game was crying out for fresh legs after 65 mins.
However, (better word than but) we roll on to Basle at home. Time to man up and put in a big performance.
Yep, good comment. I was surprised all subs weren’t used. And agree on Toure. I like the guy, I really do, but I think we saw tonight precisely why Rodgers didn’t bench Lovren when most on here were clamouring for it. He showed good character to come back from his error that contributed to the first goal (to be fair to him, however poor his clearance it should still have not resulted in a goal), but I still had my heart in my mouth whenever the ball went near him. He may well keep his place for Saturday on the basis he’ll cope better with Stoke’s physicality and aerial prowess, but it’s time people stopped talking about him like he’s the black Baresi.
Brownie, I don’t know what the colour of his skin has to do with anything, but you’re making false propositions again. No-one’s talking about him like he’s Baresi, indeed the tone of many posters has been one of despair: ‘that it has come to this – Kolo’s our saviour -‘ He’s no long-term solution, that’s clear, but, like Lucas right now, he’s better than the current incumbent. How could he not be?
“I don’t know what the colour of his skin has to do with anything”
Er, what makes you think I think differently? You know what Zico’s knickname was, right?
I think we must have been reading different comments. When Rodgers wasn’t making changes the calls for Lucas and Toure weren’t being made on the basis that their advocates saw them as marginal improvements on the players they would replace. Some people were pointing to the Madrid game and talking as if the performances we saw that night were the true indications of their worth, and when it was mentioned that people have short memories regarding the two and/or weren’t privy to what Rodgers was seeing in training, for example, we were told we were mad (slight exaggeration). Remember, I’m nit just addressing you here but the commentariat in the round. So if you think it doesn’t apply to you, you could be right – it probably doesn’t. But don’t tell me there weren’t commenters writing in the terms I’m describing, because there were.
I feel a little more positive after last night and I’ve already credited Lucas and Toure for at least showing great character, but if Lovren had put in Toure’s performance last night I’m pretty sure he’d be getting torn to shreds on here this morning rather than being told he did well, or even okay. The poor clearance before their first goal, the back-header, the near-own-goal in the first-half and a couple of other hairy moments. There were times he did well, too – I can think of a couple of great blocks – but his performance in toto reaffirms my belief that one of the main reasons why Rodgers stuck to the same formula for so long is that he looked at the alternatives and didn’t see anything obviously superior to what was out there. I didn’t see anything last night to make me think he was spectacularly wrong in that assessment.
Sakho should be back for the weekend lets see if Rodgers is willing to give him as much opportunities as he’s given Lovren.
I don’t think you think differently. It was just a bit, y’know, superflous.
I think you’re overstating the case, Brownie. The point about the Real Madrid/Chelsea fiasco was that it was completely mismanaged. If players had been dropped then what had they done to deserve reinstatement? It seems to me that the Real Madrid lineup pissed the commentariat off and the Chelsea lineup pissed the supporters off: a double whammy if ever I’ve seen one. I suspect that what really happened was that Brendan had a bit of a panic, decided the Chelsea game was more important in the scheme of things (fair enough, he’s the boss) then bottled it when confronted by an enraged punditocracy. He should have told them were to stuff it, but he’s vulnerable right now and needs them on board. He then compounded his error by demonstrating that he was bluffing thus alienating both the commentariat and the supporters! My oh my.
Re the playing side of things, it’s all about context. There was a lot of emotion invested in the Real Madrid game; he sent out a team of underdogs who scrapped and scrapped and outperformed the ‘A’ team in the reverse fixture. We weren’t great that night, I don’t think anyone thought we were, and there’s no doubt Real took it easy, but we showed some character and the dropping (resting, as it turned out) of Gerrard and Lovren felt cathartic. The Chelsea lineup felt like a smack in the face for both the supporters and squad players as a consequence, and may have led some, but not many, to overstate the performance in Madrid.
Having said all that, Kolo and Lucas were very good that night but you wouldn’t have thought they offer long-term solutions. Can’t help wondering what the defence would look like with a proper keeper, but the problems run deeper than that – we are, as you say, appallingly vulnerable at transitions: that’s a coaching issue.
I think more is being made of the Madrid “fiasco” than was the case.
“If players had been dropped then what had they done to deserve reinstatement?”
You and I both know that whatever Rodgers said to the press, he was resting players for Chelsea and Lucas and Toure in particular would have been clued into that as part of the squad discussions. There would have been no confusion on their part. They knew they were in for one game of damage limitation and that, barring injuries, wouldn’t start against Chelsea. As professionals, I’m sure they won’t have liked it, but those rotation decisions are taken week in and week out in all forms of football and it’s a part of the modern game. The press built this into a 48hr news phenomenon and did the whole “what about LFC’s European heritage?” schtick. Even if you buy into that and believe Rodgers ought to have played what he believed was his first 11, the idea that the squad members were confused/desolated by his decision to change again for Chelsea was just baloney.
Rodgers didn’t “bottle it” when confronted by the pearl clutchers in the press pack, he said the only thing he could. If he’d hinted at resting players then UEFA could have got on our ass about it, fined the club or even worse.
“Can’t help wondering what the defence would look like with a proper keeper, but the problems run deeper than that – we are, as you say, appallingly vulnerable at transitions: that’s a coaching issue”
I suspect a better keeper – or at least a top form Mignolet – would make a significant difference, and this was the point Lawrenson was exploring last night. The transition is a problem and has been for two years or more. I’ve gone hoarse shouting at the telly when some pundit is on there talking about “Liverpool’s defence”. Whatever issues our back-four have, they are consistently exposed to far higher degree than any other top-half club I can think of. They may not have all the answers but the point is they are having to field a shitload more questions than most of our competitors. Even from set-pieces you can’t just look at the defence. Most free-kicks and corners will see 9 of our 10 outfield players in our own box *defending*. There’s a collective responsibility issue there and yes, you’re right, a coaching issue. But again, a decent keeper in good form can make a big difference to the team mindset when we come under a bit of pressure.
Yeah zico was the white pele, but that was 30 years ago…It would be nice to think folks have progressed beyond, black baresi and white pele.
He’s a step up at the moment as Lovren’s head has gone. Kolo has a rick in him, a blunder even, but he usually recovers and has bucket loads of confidence. We need that right now.
I’ve just realised that out of the team that started last night, Johnson, Kolo, Lucas will all probably be gone come next season with Gerrard and Lambo regular subs at best. That’s without suggesting who we may choose to offload. That’s nuts!! So much for building for the future.
Lallana, Lovren, Moreno, Markovic worth approx £79mil all deemed not good enough to start even though they were only bought a matter of months ago!
Madness!
Lucas won’t be going anywhere. He’s on a massive wage and is happy to take the money and not play.
The former 2 have been playing most of the season and the third was injured and is in and out of the team. None of the 3 are in enough form to demand inclusion. The cost to me is irrelevant to be honest, their form isnt. So reasonable management to be fair IMO.
Very good article this week in the Indy on our transfer dealings by Sam Wallace – worth a look for a different point of view.
It’s not necessary the management of the players I’m questioning; it’s the fact we’ve spent that much money on them and yet none of them are good enough to start. I’m not gonna get into our transfer woes again. I’ve done it to death already.
I liked how we played, especially after conceding such a disastrous first. The constant ragging on Gerrard and Johnson is doing my head in too.
Both have lost power and athleticism but both are still fine players, though far from perfect.
And it’s interesting to note how Lucas is back in vogue when he’d also been written off by the bulk of the keyboard warriors these last 6 months. He seems to have gained a half yard of pace and fitness, when admittedly he’d lost a yard and a half after his injury. I’d give him 8/10 last night, he disrupted Ludogorets constantly.
Along with Allen who’s had a couple of good games in a row, Toure likewise, and Rickie who played with good sense and skill last night (how has HE been so badly written off too – and by most of the TAW? Sheesh) we can take plenty of positives from last night.
We looked like a team. Not a brilliant one, but a decent one.
Joe Allen seldom has bad games, though you wouldn’t think so given the stick he gets.
Johnson is most defo no longer a “fine” player!
Hes below average in tackles, crosses cut out, interceptions etc etc.
He no longer offers us anything and will be gone in the summer if not before.
Thought he did well last night, although I agree he’s been poor up to now.
I’d go Johnson and Moreno against Stoke, although I think Rodgers may stick with Johnson and Manquillo for the height if nothing else.
By no means did Johnson have his worst game for us last night, he was distinctly average and offers us very little defensively or going forward anymore. Good chance he’ll be gone in Jan, might last to the summer. Problem is Moreno has now made 3 defensive mistakes that have led to goals more than any other fullback.
Last night’s team selection makes this weekend’s fascinating.
I really hope he doesn’t revert back to Lovren, Gerrard and Balotelli……
The shape & approach of the team was something towards where we need to go. Without any serious threat up front we need to re shape the team, become more pragmatic, duller if you like. We don’t have the personnel anymore to win 5-3 so for me the free flowing football has to go out the window until those personnel arrive. That’s true management for me, adjusting to a system that works for the players we have opposed to forcing a system that just leaves us conceding. I’d happily take another 6-8 weeks of the style of football that Chelsea came with at the end of last season. Boring as fuck but sneak a win.
What I find grating is that none of the 9 players have added anything to the side. As others have commented this season should of been about cementing a solid top 4 slot and a run the CL a bonus. To put the club back in transition because 1 player left and then buying 9 mediocre players is appalling business. Instead of buying 4 top drawer players to cement that top 4 spot which then attracts other top players we will out the CL and mid table, Thus back to square 1. I wonder how many players said no to us because of the wage policy but I’d quite like to know if someone can explain to me how paying 9 lads £100K a week is any different than paying 4 £175K is any different.
Away in Eastern Europe is never easy although I don’t think too many prem defences will be too worried with a couple of dad joggers up front.
Unfortunately Brian I have to agree with you, we gotta go back to basics and work towards winning 1-0 & 2-1 because we clearly don’t have the firepower to be scoring 3/4/5 goals a game.
Start off by having a solid defensive set up and work on from there slowly building confidence again and the players can learn to trust one another again. At least until we can bring in reinforcements or get the new signings up to speed.
Agree with the point about playing a system that suits the players you have. On the transfers, the truth is we just don’t know to what extent Rodgers was thwarted in his attempts to attract the very top talent. It seems certain we were in for Sanchez and you can bet your life Arsenal are not paying him more than we would have. Was it the London thing, or the fact that they could point to not just 14 consecutive years of CL football, but 14 years of last 16 CL football, whereas we could point to one qualification? I’m guessing ‘yes’.
There was also talk of Cavani, but I’m not sure why he would swap PSG for us. He doesn’t like being pushed wide by Ibrahimovic but are we really a compelling alternative to what he’s got going on at PSG?
Until we find out that one of these top marque players was available and willing to come to LFC for the right money, I think it’s a bit unfair to give it to Rodgers. Marco Reus will be available in the summer for about 25m. We could offer to pay him 500k a week and the only way he’d pick us above his other options is if we’re sitting with number 6 in the cabinet.
Unless he cam as a package deal with Klopp, of course. :-)
All very true. An investigation needs to done on our transfer failings, who’s making the final decisions and if our strategy is working. (It’s not) Lovren, Lallana, Markovic and Moreno all deemed not good enough to start last night but cost approx £77mil!! Madness!!
We could bring in a keeper this Jan who could have an immediate effect on our defence. Would Cech come if he’s told he’ll be first choice unless his performances prove otherwise?? Surely there’s a chance there. I’m not well versed on keepers across Europe but we NEED one ASAP. Valdez on Loan?? Can he be any worse than Migs at the moments.
I find it a strange coincidence that since Acterberg has come in both Reina and Mignolet have went serious downhill in comparison to what they were like before. Perhaps there’s an underlying issue in the club.
Valdes is still a free agent.
Was talking to a gooner today. Sanchez would have been a great piece of business, the nearest thing to Suarez out there: works like a dog and scores every type of goal. I’ve a feeling our season would be looking very different had we managed to conclude that deal, but them’s the breaks. We’ll never know whether the deal was doable or not.
When was the last time we were in for a player wanted by any of our major rivals and we managed to snag him? I honestly can’t remember. Did I hear right that Arsenal were looking at Moreno?
Can’t remember, to be honest. I’ve written elsewhere that FSG’s desire to reset market expectations was understandable; it’s also naive. You can only reset the market from a position of strength, if then.
Re the Gerrard situation I’m not sure lashing him in an advanced role after he’s been playing DM for the last year is a particularly considered approach but it more than did it’s job last night and I thought Lambert looked more settled having Stevie nearby.
Overall the performance was marginally better, though that isn’t difficult based on the Palace game. Sterling particularly stood out which is good to see, and Manquillo quietly goes about his work in a reliable way which again is a huge positive.
The main concern is the same comment after every game of “we were disappointed with the goals”. And last night the goals we conceded were disappointing, but in the context of our season defensively they were fairly standard.
If you take two players out of the squad who scored a combined total of 50+ goals then surely the first place you look to sure up through coaching and practice is your defence.
Since September (16 games) we’ve kept one clean sheet and conceded 25 goals (few of them worldies).
If we are to see green shoots of recovery for me it starts at the back and works forward. We have to fix the defence and defensive approach to games before it does terminal damage to our season.
As no one has given him any abuse for a while I thought I’d say this:
LFC need Balotelli to do something crazy. Get us in the headlines around the world. That’s his only purpose for being here really.
Discuss.
Do you know what lines get trotted out every few years?
“There’s no bad team at the World Cup.” “There’s no bad team in the Champions League.”
It’s bollocks of course. Alan Hanson said it 20 minutes before Germany played Saudi Arabia in 2002. 8-0. Gerry Armstrong said it before Atletico Madrid played Malmo a few weeks back. 5-0. Sadly, some are now saying it after (not before) games in which beforehand they expected the bad team to get beat and beat well.
Ludogorets are a bad team when it comes to Champions League football. Ludogorets record transfer fee is £1.4m. In the summer alone we nearly spent 10 times that. And over two games we beat them 4-3. It is arguable if we deserved to. But even taking the lowly opposition into account, last night was better. Having just lost 4 in a row Im not sure how it couldn’t have got better.
Lambert scored again. Two in two. His hold up play was quite good but he’s still not suited to how we need to play. Stirling played his best game for us in a while. All with a “sore stomach” too. Henderson looked much more like himself, especially getting beyond Lambert. Amazing what he is encouraged to do when he isn’t worried about doing Gerrard’s running. Lucas was average but as lots of us have been saying for weeks upon weeks, his averageness was a massive upgrade in that area of the pitch than the dirt Gerrard was serving up. Exact same for Toure (average) replacing Lovren (shite). Allen was good again. Still loads to worry about of course.
Rodgers performance in team selection was so-so.
Lovren got dropped & Gerrard removed from defensive midfielder. Happy days! But Johnson ahead of Moreno is strange. If he has to play Johnson, and it seems he has for no reason known to man, then surely play him at right back and drop Manquillo. Out of the two young Spaniards surely everyone can see Moreno has been better? And Gerrard in the team again advanced. Urgh.
I wonder if Rodgers is just going to play Steven in a run of games in one position, and when it doesn’t work try him for a run of games in another position, then it doesn’t work there so try him elsewhere etc etc etc, without ever thinking that maybe he’s not good enough anymore. He’s played at the base of a diamond. Then moved to a number 10 role. Then moved to play in a 2 in centre mid. Then played as attacking mid last night. And none of it has worked. Not once.
Thought Steven was poor again last night. Not as atrocious as he has been, but still nowhere near the level required. He slowed everything down, his touch was awful a number of times, he lost possession at an alarming rate in the first half and lost so many fifty fifty challenges. Kept it only when playing simple passes. Not what a player in the position is there to do.
Worse though, when we came under pressure in the last 20, he was playing furthest man forward. The completely immobile Lambert was actually in midfield doing more running than he was.
Please tell me we all noticed this?!
As Jim Boardman retweeted last night, post match Rodgers and some players seem to be adopting the “if we tell people we played well maybe they’ll believe us” strategy. And that goes primarily for Gerrard. Fair enough, nobody has said he was magnificent, but I still can’t believe the number of people saying he done well. He didn’t. By the way Lambert saying post match that the performance last night answered the critics was one of the most cringe-worthy things I’ve ever heard a Liverpool player say. Beyond embarrassing. We drew 2-2 with a team from Bulgaria. Who also absolutely gifted us an immediate equaliser. In a stadium that wasn’t there own. This wasn’t 0-0 in Turin.
Rodgers performance during the game itself was a disgrace.
Just like when away to Spurs I said Lovren was awful and virtually nobody else noticed or wanted to notice, because we didn’t lose last night (didn’t lose!) I’m not sure many will call Rodger’s out on some abhorrent decision making.
2-1 up. 60-70mins. We’re getting a bit too deep. We’re getting nervous. Our full backs have stopped attacking. Ludogorets are throwing more and more men forward, leaving a lot of space at the back. And who the fuck do we leave on for the counter? Lambert and Gerrard. Fucking hell. But what’s worse is we take off Stirling, the one player with pace who did threaten to end the game by scoring a third! And no, I’m not buying the “sore stomach” bollocks Rodgers is using to divert attention from a shocking substitution. Taking Raheem off for Moreno was a sign of more of his cowardice and fear that spreads through the players.
At about 65mins, how can anyone think it wouldn’t have made more sense to bring off Gerrard for Coutinho? Or Lambert for Borini? Or Johnson for Moreno? There were so many chances to break away and create between 60 to 85mins to end the game as a contest. So many. But we only created two and one of those wasn’t even from a counter. Imagine Borini down the channels or over the top, or Coutinho skipping away from one midfielder and playing him or Stirling in time and again, or Moreno’s pace against an exhausted Ludo right back. Odds are it would have been 4-1 with 5 minutes left.
But no. Gerrard has to play every minute of every game regardless of the situation. According to some, an argument can be made for this. According to some, Rodgers has plenty of balls when it comes to the 34 year old captain who is so legless he couldn’t run a bath. I don’t think Rodgers just wants to win. I think he wants to win with Gerrard and Johnson and Lovren and say to the critics, “see, see, I told you so.”
I said after 70mins that if we hang on to win, we do so in spite of Rodgers, not because of him. He has become a handicap this term, not an asset. But we didn’t hang on. We didn’t score on the counter. But because we conceded from a set piece. Again. Against a small side, as Neil rightly states in the piece above. Rodgers has had two and a half years to get us to defend better. That’s plenty of coaching time. He’s thrown money at it. The club are tweeting pictures of him working with Lovren, Skrtel (shite again last night) & Mignolet (extra shite again last night) etc.
So a few questons for those Rodgers supporters out there, specifically on defending and even more specifically, defending set pieces. What do we do? Shrug our soldiers and come to the conclusion under Rodgers we’ll never be able to defend? Is there any evidence you can find that suggests this is an area we will improve on? And has a team ever achieved anything worthwhile and on a consistent basis having a manager who produces a defence this bad? Please answer. Thanks.
Out of the 2 young Spanish fullbacks Moreno is NOT the better. Moreno has made 3 defensive errors which have led to goals, more than any other fullback!
When you look at their amount of tackles, mistakes made, interceptions, blocks, crosses cut out, pass completion etc Manquillo comes out on top.
Moreno might look better going forward but he’s very suspect defensively at the min. Manquillo is solid if unspectacular, needs to improve going forward but he’s our best performing defender at the min.
Crazy considering the amount if money we’ve spent on defenders in the last year or so.
We spent 100x more than £1.4m, not 10x! Rodgers has almost spunked away a quarter of a billion pounds, that’s more than Rafa!
Manquillo’s quite possibly our best defender right now Chris (and how sad is that?). He was going for solidity.
‘We have a long-term plan for the economy, a strategy, and it’s working’ – sound familiar?
Lynton Crosby is advising Brendan ‘we have character, grit and determination’ etc etc.
I disagree strongly that Manquillo is the better player. Yes, Moreno has made 2 clear mistakes (2nd one was partly Lovren’s fault at Newcastle, not sure where the 3rd came from) that cost goals, but Moreno isn’t a million miles behind him on all round defensive play. Manquillo offers us so, so little in the middle third and attacking third comparing to Moreno.
But I think the point here should be that they should both be playing, and not Johnson! We surely all agree with that?
And again, all the Rodgers defenders on here not wanting to answer questions about his ability, especially regarding defence and what it means for the future. Heads in sand with fingers and toes crossed he’ll get it right.
PS: Yes, 100x the Ludo record transfer in one summer. Unreal.
And soldiers? Shrug our soldiers? I watch too much of The Office. I’ll even blame Rodgers on this….Brendan doing a too great a Brent impression at present.
Read the posts again. No-one’s saying he’s the better player, he clearly isn’t. He is, however, the better defender at the moment.
Yes, I agree. Back four of Manquillo, Toure, Sakho and Moreno until Flanagan’s fit and Ilori’s ready.
If these were wingers we were talking about Chris I’d agree about the final third thing but were not, we’re talking about defenders and Manquillo is the better defender.
Morenos third mistake came last night when he let his man get ahead of him to flick the ball on at the near post for the equaliser.
At a time when we are conceding too many goals, stupid goals at that, I think it’s important that our defenders are able to defend first and foremost. I’m not saying there’s a massive difference between them and I’d like to think Moreno will cut out these mistakes but currently so far this season Manquillo has been the better defender.
This weekend, against the tallest team in the world, I’m not sure how wise it is to play a 5’7 fullback who has made the most defensive mistakes in the league.
Before Moreno came on, Gerrard had cleared 3 or 4 Ludo corners with headers at the near post. Given the height disadvantage, Ludo knew they probably wouldn’t win too many headers from crosses to the penalty spot, so it was always likely they’d try to mix it up a bit from corners, with near and far post knocks and even pullbacks (which they tried at least once). Thing is, until that last corner we looked completely wise to it and handled most things they tried pretty well. Then we fall asleep once and bang…
According to BBC Radio 5 Rodgers spent most of the second half in an apoplectic rage at some of, what sounded like, very negative play. This included the obligatory water bottle kick taking place. I dislike demonstrably bad behaviour by managers on the touchline, it has the desperate reek of scapegoating about it. He may be saying one thing to the medis – “I’m to blame” – but that sort of carry on is obviously meant to convey the message ‘Look, it’s not me it’s the players!’. As much as I support Rodgers I do find signs like that worrying.
Or it could simply be a sign of frustration that the players arnt carrying out his instructions as communicated.
Is it not Rodgers job to make sure the players are carrying out his instruction? Players are supposed to buy in to what they’re being told. That’s what any manager/boss/leader is responsible for.
I agree with softlad here. By all accounts Rodgers was extremely more animated last night and his frustrations were incredibly more on show than at any time before. Is it pressure? Or is it trying to show us than none of this is really his fault?
Whatever it is, it’s two matches running where his body language, out of nowhere, is a major talking point.
I’ve no problem with the manager being pissed off, or his showing it.
Either do I, if it’s in his nature.
I do have a problem though if the manager’s behaviour changes under pressure. Then again given he abandoned his 180 page philosophy after a year or so I shouldn’t be surprised.
Surely his agitation was a result of the refs decisions. It certainly followed each dubious free kick. In fairness to the ref I thought he had a very good game. He even hugged a Ludogorets player instead of showing him a yellow for kicking the ball away, near the end. I watch Conference football now and again and it takes watching that to realise how non contact the Prem is. On a political scale, if the Conference is left wing then the Prem would be centre right but the CL would be far right. There’s absolutely no contact what so ever. I think it was more a case of Rodgers showing us how passionate he is. His anger was definitely aimed towards the ref though. The ref actually warned him once.
Manquillo – Toure- Sakho – Moreno
Lucas
Henderson Allen
Lallana
Balotelli – Sterling
Stay organized. Press Stoke hard (Sterling, Lallana, Allen, and Henderson all excel at this). Transition fast. Give Lallana a shot at the tip. Let Lucas sit in front of the back and clean up.
I’ve gone through the entire EPL squad and come up with about 47 different combinations and there’s not one which doesn’t fill me with dread…or at least not one where I think “that’s it!” TO my mind, there is no combination of 11 players that is in any sense significantly better than another. Which ought to be irrelevant, because virtually any half-sensible selection we make ought to be capable of beating this Stoke team (1-2 home to Burnley last time out) 8 times out of 10.
Moreno or Johnson? Can or Allen? Lucas or Gerrard? None of it should matter if we’re honest, but until we start winning, of course it does.
I can see that, and we certainly haven’t a decent keeper. The squad’s very imbalanced at the moment. Are any of the youngsters anywhere near yet? Chiravella’s looked good whenever I’ve seen him: neat and compact, Rossiter too, but I doubt they’re ready for the Premiership yet. Any news on Ilori? I’d like to see a combination of the following players given a run until we find some form:
Mignolet (no choice)
Manquillo (Flanagan when fit), Toure, Sakho, Moreno
Can, Henderson, Allen, Lucas, Sterling
Lallana, Lambert, Borini,
From the bench: Coutinho, Suso (when fit), Markovic, Balotelli.
Brendan worked well with a small squad of regulars last season, this would be manageable and might just clear his head.
Presumably Gerrard is the manager in your mind?
No. As I’ve made clear elsewhere Gerrard isn’t worth a place in the starting eleven and his continued presence simply confuses matters. He might be worth a place in goal; the way things are going I wouldn’t be surprised if Brendan tried him there, such is his desperation to shoehorn him into the side come what may.
What upset me about the game was the substitution. We looked dangerous with Sterling on, but he did look tired and possibly hurt. If you’re going to take him off, then surely you’ve got to put on Coutinho or Lallana, or even another CM if you are looking to stifle Ludogorets. Putting on Moreno was neither here nor there in terms of intent, and all it did is invite pressure. For a team low on confidence and terrible at keeping the ball out of its own net, the last thing you want is pressure. We conceded the front foot and it led to conceding the goal. Very frustrating.
Yep, it was a craven substitution.
Was he injured or not? On the TV they hinted he may still be struggling following the knock he picked up, and on the radio afterwards they were clear he was limping when he went off, so the assumption was it was not a tactical change.
I agree it was bizarre if he wasn’t injured and/or indicating he needed to come off, but I don’t think that’s entirely clear to be fair to Rodgers.
I thought his non substitutions were worse. Unfortunately there aren’t too many talking about it as drawing and winning were ultimately the same thing after Madrid won.
But if Basle won last night and we were out because of two dropped points, a lot more would be said about Rodgers decisions in game. Rodgers was far, far worse last night in a draw than he was in defeat to Palace, and he was bad then as well.
100% correct analysis Goran, and that handing of the initiative to the oppo (happened v Palace too) is desperately frustrating.
Last season we finished second in the EPL, knew we were going to lose Suarez but felt we could replace him, if imperfectly but adequately. As a matter of interest I watched Arsenal the other day and it struck me how similar Sanchez was to Suarez: never gives up, chases everything, but better behaved. So the players were and are out there. So out of the squad which excited the football world in England, we were one down and had a shedload of money with which we could show we had seen Tootenham and learned from them, could strengthen our squad to show we were up to CL standard. The loss by injury of Sturridge was as predictable as the loss of Suarez, so we were not blindsided.
I don’t think we recruited poorly, just unwisely. I have said before that I believe the squad, properly managed, could still get top four, but despite looking better against Ludogrets we are not being properly managed. I challenged BRs supporters to nominate a game in which Rodgers tactics won a game for us but nobody did. I can recall a few in which his management LOST games for us, and his substitution this week conceivably lost two points.
We went to Madrid hoping for an honourable loss, and are pleased to get a point from Ludogrets. That is my problem with Rodgers, not his character. An earlier post pointed out that Ferguson was a failure in his first few years, and so he was; but he knew football and tactics. Brendan is no Ferguson, more Keegan.
Yes but at the time people thought the same of fergie init? that he was just another wilf mcguiness, not the sill genius he turned out t be….nah not a good comparison, bet you were not saying that last year were you?
As a matter if fact I was. And even if I wasn’t, i’m saying it now, and it’s just as true if I’d just discovered it. His Swansea success was built on someone else’s work.
Hmm…well paisleys success was due to the fact of shanks having laid the groundwork and fagin’s thanks to paisley and finally dalglish benefited from all who went ahead of him. So that’s not very valid.You cannot select certain points, take them out of context of the whole sum, isolate them to your satisfaction and promote it as fact. Just like saying last season was all down to suarez. I guess Rodgers, sturridge, sterling, couts, gerrard, steve peters, nobody else contributed in any postive way. You have to give a guy (rodgers) his due, good and bad. Cannot say all the bad is rodgers fault and all the good is not his in any way at all!
Paisley followed Shanks and knew the flaws, if any, as did Dalglish . The flaws now are BRs making – a clearly limited goalkeeper – that he bought- being the main one, but also ignoring obvious near future needs. He is a limited manager and his limitations are compounded by his thinking he doesn’t need advice. Ignoring the bleeding obvious or decrying contrary opinions, is not being a loyal supporter. Every other EPL team now sees us as a possible win. This Is Anfield??? So what???
We’re just going back and forth here. Everything you say is rooted in hindsight, just stating the obvious as appearing to all of us on the outside. Everything is so obvious and a simple fix yet you wouldnt last a day if you were manager of LFC. BEing the actual manager is very different to being a pretend one, like you, myself, the pundits and a million other fans. When your actually in the hotseat there are a variety of REAL WORLD factors to consider. Your an “expert” (like all of us with an opinion) on what ails LFC and how to fix it overnight because you dont/us have to take the responsibility for failure. Its like playing FIFA vs the real world of sport. You say he is limited, i say he is talented. You say his signings are all limited, useless, waste of money…well ALL them signings nearly brought us the league title after 20 years. You say that was just suarez, I say one man alone cannot be given that much credit, squads win trophies. You say the cup is half empty, i say its half full…lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Time will tell which of us is more accurate.
Like ive said before this goes way beyond coach level. We have played this same song before after GH after rafa, good finishes followed by utter chaos and rubbish. There is a much bigger problem of how to keep our players, add quality etc etc…rafas squad should have been good for a few more titles, instead they all scarpered off to madrid etc….now suarez. All the other big epl clubs have KEPT their big names and ADDED. ARe we legends only in our own minds? Because everyone else treats us like mid level. Star names dnt leave big clubs? And in our glory years if that happened we replaced them with quality. LFC were hot stuff back then. This is way bigger than rodgers and even FSG. This is TWENTY YEARS worth of rot and baggage rodgers has to fix. For that he needs about 10 years! fergie took about 10 years to get his title. The only option MAYBE is a moneybags from mid east and do a city or chelski.
Well said that man.
I cannot be bothered to trawl back through last year to check exactly what everyone was saying when we were winning – however I am pretty certain that not too many were slating the manager and sundry players like they are now. Some of the comparisons with Roy are laughable.
There is some cracking insight and opinion shown on here IMO but the level of hindsight wisdom is increasingly out of all proportion. Most of the 43,000 plus who attend Anfield or 4,000 of us coming out of Palace could see certain players are having a bad time. It doesn’t make us geniuses or tactical gurus. Oh, and by the way just because its an opinion it does not make it fact and it does not make everyone else wrong as one or two seem to think.
As Andrew says this is way bigger than one man and the current owners – come on you mighty reds!