DERAILMENT is such an ugly word. Even at Liverpool’s most wild and wonderful best last season you could never really accuse them of being ‘on track’ at any time. We were free-wheeling down a very steep gradient, never totally in control but seemingly following an almost invisible path that had been plotted for us.
Can we now class ourselves as having been derailed from a meticulously laid piece of track?
The feel-good vibe of Spring has evaporated. The same Anfield that was going nuts in those heady months of March and April was last Saturday at a loss over how to respond. Protest boos at substitutions and an air of nothingness on the final whistle. Suddenly goodwill and convivial relations towards Brendan Rodgers from the stands looks strained. It feels a bit, well, a bit pivotal.
It seems to me that flirting with the title and then making the next step a backward one has become an unforgivable act for Liverpool managers since 1990. When Gerard Houllier came to within “10 games of greatness” in 2001-02, he was gone by 2004. Houllier had helped guide Roy Evans to the exit door less than 18 months after he’d contrived to come 4th in the 1996-97 two-horse title race.
Rafa Benitez came to within a couple of careless goalless draws at home of landing the title in 2008-09 and, despite the mitigating circumstances of Hicks and Gillett, plus a clueless Christian Purslow to deal with, Benitez was gone by 2010 to the agreement of a reasonable amount of the Liverpool support. We seem to get angry, but don’t do the ‘get even’ bit. We instead opt for a spot of self-destruction and turn on ourselves. Why do it when there is already a sizeable line of people queuing to take a pop at us? Sadism is neither big nor clever.
So we stand here eyeballing a difficult period of time once again during the wake of losing out in a title race. Do we blink again and bring the walls crashing down once more? What would we make of another club that was threatening to unravel in a totally unnecessary manner? The easy thing to do is to hit the panic button, yet hitting the panic button when there is no real panic, is not just inadvisable, it’s fucking stupid. It’s Tottenham Hotspur behaviour. You can’t build an empire on instability.
Have you mourned the way last season ended sufficiently enough? If you’re angry about how things are working out for Liverpool FC at the minute then do a quick mental itemisation of the reasons you’re angry. Are you really only angry about things that concern 2014-15? I’m not wild in the aisles about how it has gone during the first three months of this season, but I still reckon some reactions are over-exaggerated. I believe some of us are lashing out in a frustration that is fuelled by the way we saw the title fall from the palm of our hand with just three games to go.
Losing out on the title was painful. It hurt, it hurt badly. The blow of that near miss isn’t fully appreciated or understood. The magnitude of the blow is still causing ripples now. Those ripples are in danger of gaining a momentum that could turn into a tsunami that takes us all the way back to square one. Stop being brave about it and embrace that pain, accept that pain. Reconcile what happened and find some peace with it, then come back and assess this season with a fresh slate. You might see it in a different light. That’s not to say you’ll find beauty where there isn’t much to see, but at least a few of the clouds in your head might clear.
This season has more in common with Brendan Rodgers’ first season in charge than it does his second season. A raft of new faces in the squad, most of which are still fumbling around for form, and in some cases fitness. Rodgers is showing degrees of stubbornness in his belief that the path he’s taking us along is unequivocally the correct one. Plenty of people are in disagreement with him over this — just as they were two years ago. We’re not too far from the stage of the season where things began to click two years ago. Things can yet click again.
Some of the deficiencies of this season were there last season. Others weren’t. Simon Mignolet didn’t look all that comfortable on many occasions last season. He hasn’t looked all that comfortable on many occasions this season either. More than reasonable investment in the defence hasn’t changed much from last season. We still possess the power of self-capitulation and we are again doing this in new and exciting ways. No matter how many individually-talented defenders we sign, I just don’t ever see there being a day when we will be the purveyors of text book defending during the Rodgers era. Last season we could embrace that problem with a bit of a shrug of the shoulders that it was next season’s issue to worry about. Well look, it is that next season now. If last season was the eternal DFS sale where you paid nothing for 12 months, then the sofa company have come knocking for us to cough up now.
So if the goalkeeping and defensive departments are just giving us more of the same from last season, then it’s in midfield and attack that we have failed to replicate ourselves. Mario Balotelli isn’t suited to being the lone man up front. Daniel Sturridge has been missing with injury. Luis Suarez plays his football in a Barcelona shirt now. Our quotas of effervescence in the opposing half of the field are down by a considerable margin, and our creative sparks in midfield are finding very little options ahead of them. The spring in the step that carried us on the front foot to such remarkable distances last season can’t be magically turned on like a light-switch. We have to go out there and earn our mojo back.
It won’t happen at all if we consume ourselves yet again though.
Pics: David Rawcliffe
A “reasonable amount of Liverpool support” might have agreed with the removal of Rafa by that football expert Purslow, but a sizeable number thought otherwise – me included.
I don’t wish to revive the debate, but you can’t just justify the sacking of Rafa with such a glib comment.
Rafa took the side from 2nd to 7th. Perhaps in a different time he may have turned it around the following year, but seeing as Rafa has problems with the owners of every club he’s worked at, he obviously rubs people up the wrong way. Add to that there was a lot of noise he’d lost the dressing room, a near certain sign of an impending sacking.
Let’s also remind ourselves he spent massively, bringing in players of wages near double what the club pays for now. Even if did didn’t drive the train off the tracks, he certainly planted the bombs on the bridge supports.
(a) Given what we now know what was going on behind the scenes, finishing 7th wasn’t a bad achievement.
(b) For someone who “obviously rubs people up the wrong way” he hasn’t half had a lot of success. Does Mourinho rub you the wrong way? Did Meister Ferguson?
(c) He doesn’t have “problems with the owners of every club he’s worked at” – that is nothing more than a blatant lie. Every club?
Real Madrid Reserves? No issues with owners.
Valladolid? No issues with owners.
Osasuna? No issues with owners.
Extremadura? No issues with owners.
Tenerife? No issues with owners.
Valencia? Only issue here was that he wanted more money spent and they never had it to spend.
Liverpool? No issues with David Moores. Had issues with Hicks/Gillette, as we all did.
Inter? See Valencia.
Chelsea? No issues with owners.
Napoli? No issues with owners.
So ten teams managed, nine if you don’t want to include Madrid’s B team. So even if you want to classify boards rejecting his requests to sign players as “problems with owners” it’s still only at a third of the clubs he’s managed. A third. Yet you’re saying it happens everywhere he goes?
(d) He never lost the dressing room. Carragher got the hump with him because Rafa didn’t feel he was worth the contract he was asking for, which was an increase in wages for a 32 year old at the ned of 09/10. Rafa instead offered him a 2 year deal on the same money but with the provision he had to have played a certain number of minutes over those seasons. Rafa knew Carra wasn’t going to be up to the job much longer and he had to cut costs. Carra’s response? He helped get him the sack and his mate Purslow appointed Hodgson.
On the 9th of October 2010 FSG agreed to buy LFC but Hicks/Gillette went to court over it, delaying the sale by 6 days. In these 6 days Carra then forced through this new contract with Purslow on increased wages and with no provision for playing time affecting the rate of pay. It had no input from Hodgson. This was signed on the 14th of October, just one day before FSG took control of the club so they couldn’t do anything about it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows exactly what the then close to 33 year old Carra was up to. But it was a good day to bury it given all the reports were about FSG’s takeover, their plans for the club etc etc. And it was Carra….what LFC fan would dare criticise him, right?
(e) Rafa spent massively? He has a net spend of £68m over his 6 years. So he spent £11.3m per year net. Massive? In his last three windows he was operating on a sell to buy policy…no wonder we came 7th. He got plenty wrong in transfers but he realised it quickly and got rid. He never hung on to a player and played him relentlessly hoping he’d be proven right. He also had an eye for a bargain. Alonso, Reina, Arbeloa, Lucas, Torres. And he bought Sterling for £600,000. Better than our record since he left for sure.
(f) On your wages point – two things. 1. Rafa had a better team so yes they are going to get paid more than the players we have at the minute. But not double. You’ve just plucked that from thin air. And you get what you pay for. Reina or Mignolet for example? 2. We have new owners who refuse to pay anything like top wages to new recruits so maybe therein lies a problem with attracting the likes of Alexis Sanchez to our club. Have you thought if we did pay a bit more on wages and had a Sanchez we wouldn’t be in this mess of a season?
(g) It was a poor decision to let Benitez go. I never supported it. Look what/who it led to. Under new ownership I am sure he’d have started again and within a year or two we’d have been back on track. Not the 5 year UCL wilderness endured since then anyway. And due to his name we’d have been able to attract a better calibre player.
But hey ho, what’s done is done. Let’s get the ‘facts’ right though.
Agree 1000%
If Rafa could get 86 points when he had to work under a strict sell-to-buy policy, imagine what he could achieve with £215m like Rodgers has had?!
Rodgers deserves time after what he did (or what Suarez did?!) last season but in my heart of hearts I just can’t see him being a long-term success, for many reasons, not least an inability to get the team to defend. If/when Rodgers goes I’d take Rafa back in a heartbeat. Although with that twat Parry back on the scene that’s not likely to happen as the two of them hate each other.
Maybe the sale of the club to someone who can see Rafa for the world class manager he is will be the only hope.
But to stress, I’m not calling for Rodgers to go. I’m nowhere near as unequivical about him as I was Hodgson for example
Chris, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. There’s a couple of things I’ve no knowledge of but in general they’re good points. For me, it’s not so much ‘I’m gutted Rafa got sacked’ – it’s more a case of ‘I really wish things had turned out differently’. You mention a lot of the little battles that were going on behind the scenes but then you use them as mitigating circumstances of why he shouldn’t have been sacked. I’m sorry mate but after what went on there couldn’t be a situation where Rafa says ‘great news lads, the owners have gone, lets pick up from where we were before it went rancorous and before we all stabbed each other in the back’ and expect all the players to stand there cheering. The damage was done. Irreversible. Respect is like that. If for whatever reason you lose respect for someone only time can heal the wounds. You don’t get it back a few days later and you can’t manage Liverpool fc if you don’t get on with the players. Simple as that.
So, regardless of what anyone things of his transfers, his tactics, his man management or his love of Liverpool fc it’s all irrelevant. Due to circumstances his time was up. The issues behind the scenes had broken them all. Everyone had to move on. I’ve never blamed Torres for wanting to leave. Did Reina ever recover from it all? For you to say “Under new ownership I am sure he’d have started again and within a year or two we’d have been back on track” is naive in my opinion. Life simply isn’t like that. I’ll bet deep down Rafa knew that despite his love of the club he had to go for his own state of mind. Like I keep saying, you can’t just erase everything and start again. It was a real shame it worked out that way but it did.
So, with all that in mind (or even with the opposite view that all that is bullshit) what is the aim of these people who bring Rafa up every time a manager struggles. If I can’t pay a bill my solution isn’t to think back to when I was a teenager and how great it was when I didn’t have to pay them. How would that help me. Would just make me feel worse to be honest. Sounds like it has you too. Or it is that you want him to come back and replace Rodgers. It’s not gonna happen so again, it’s pointless. Why not just get behind the present manager whether you like him or not. It’s detrimental to the club having people do this every time we lose and futile.
P.s Rafa spent over £100m net.
See your point in your first paragraph Robin, but who was doing the backstabbing? And to whom? Bottom line for me is the most important person at any football club is the manager and if a certain player(s) were fucking off their boss behind his back and it didn’t result in his sacking, then the manager decides whether he can still work with that player. If not, out he goes.
It could have been like the Yorke/Ferguson problem at Old Trafford when Whiskey Nose was retiring in 2003. Yorke broke ranks and said he was delighted as he wasnt happy as a sub. Ferguson changed his mind. Yorke was fucked out. Ferguson continued. Won loads.
In his last two years at the club, just when we were really looking to kick on, Rafa actually made money in the transfer market. A net gain of £2.5m. That’s pretty ridiculous. With new owners, new investment and the odd selfish cunt in the dressing room put in their place/put out of the club I don’t believe it’s naive to say he’d have got us back on track or that we’d have spent 5 years out of the Champions League.
Regarding Rafa himself. Im generally not a fan of a manager having more than one stint at a football club unless there are serious mitigating circumstances. We and he had those. I still rate him very highly and if the job came up in the next year or two I’d struggle to name a better, more realistic target. Simeone will probably be at Man City for example. Having said that, I’d love for there to be no need. I’d love to see Rodgers change things and to be at our club 20 years, having won 7 league titles and 3 champions leagues. Whether he’s up to that is another matter.
PS: You say Rafa had a net spend of over £100m? Where did you find that? He bought 59 players for £230m and sold 72 players for £162m.
http://liverpoolfc.wikia.com/wiki/Rafael_Benitez/Transfers
As far as I can see Rafa only ‘lost’ Gerrard and Carra from the dressing room (maybe Johnson).
Reina, Lucas, Mascherano, Torres, Agger and Skertl have all at various times said they didn’t want to see Rafa go. In other words, the future of that side were still very much on board.
As Chris mentions above, Carra’s actions were reprehensible (and colour his status at the club IMO) and he was a fading force in 2010 and to lose Gerrard in 2010 would have been nowhere near as bad as losing him in 2004/5 so I firmly believe Rafa could and would have turned things around very quickly had he had decent owners to back him.
All hypothetical of course, but then again, so is 99% of all football discussion
It’s not really about who was to blame for this, that and the other. Everyone was to blame for various reasons because no man who has any pride can work in that environment without getting sucked into it. I always quote Brian Reade’s line ‘the club had become a vipers nest’. It sums it up perfectly. They were all vipers. That’s how it got. Even team selections became part of the childish games. Each to their own and all that but I think it was impossible for Rafa to continue from there. He had to move on. The majority of those involved moved on. It was the end of the road.
Regarding him coming back. Under FSG? I can see it now. Sunday afternoons in Caldy, Rafa and W Henry sitting on the lawn, deep in thought over their next chess move. Bliss!
Sometimes you have to move on. It’s like when two people who got divorced decide to get back together. They remember the good times and think that’s how it will be again. When they go back they remember what a pain in the arse the other one is and why they left in the first place. It rarely works.
D’you really think City will go for Simeone? Hardly fits the Barcelona template does he? I’d be surprised should he take a job outside Spain or Italy but we will, see…
Will be interesting to see what happens if they don’t win anything this season. Their European form is shocking, particularly as Pellegrini, unlike Mancini, has form in the CL.
(b) Yes, but Carlo Ancelotti a better coach than both, doesn’t. Nor did Bob Paisley perhaps the finest manager these islands have produced.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/real-madrid/11206709/Real-Madrid-v-Liverpool-Bernabeu-manager-Carlo-Ancelotti-deserves-to-be-heralded-among-the-greats.html
(c ) He may have got on with David Moores but he didn’t get on with the man that mattered, Rick Parry and he fell out with a lot of people at Liverpool (this doesn’t mean he wasn’t in the right, mind).
Agree with the rest of your post. though I worry that criticisms of Brendan are coloured by those who have never accepted Rafa’s departure. There’s no point crying over spilt milk: he wouldn’t work for FSG.
Paul, the point i was making is that winners in the modern game, people who are furiously driven and are arrogant or aloof, tend to rub others up the wrong way. We shouldn’t have any issue with that as long as they don’t cross the line and more importantly, are winning.
Rafa is a winner and as had less fallings out than you’d imagine. But if he, or Brendan, or any LFC manager who wins, rubs people up the wrong way (including us/me) it’s fine with me.
PS: Ancelotti is definitely not better than Mourinho. In almost every possible measuring/comparison scale, Mourinho is better.An argument can be made that Ancelotti is very close to Mourinho, but there is no argument, looking at evidence, that can state he is better than Mourinho.
Ancelotti has 5 more years in management than Mourinho yet the latter has achieved more.
Mourinho has 20 trophies. Ancelotti has 16 trophies.
Out of the big 3 major trophies (league, main cup and champion league) Mourinho has 13. Ancelotti has 8.
Mourinho has won the league 7 times. Twice in Portugal, twice in England, twice in Italy and once in Spain. Ancelotti has won the league 3 times. Once in Italy, once in England and once in France.
Mourinho has won the champions league twice, each time with a different club. He has reached 8 semi finals in 10 years with 4 different clubs in 4 different countries. That is freakish.
Ancelotti has won the champions league thrice with two different clubs. He has reached 5 semi finals in 15 years with 3 different clubs in 2 countries.
Mourinho is the first man to reach the semi final of the champions league semis with 4 different clubs. All in a different country.
Mourinho has done the treble twice. Whisky Nose said in 99 the treble would never be done again by any club in any country. Mourinho done in in Portugal and Italy.
Ancelotti has never done the treble.
Mourinho has done the double twice.Ancelotti has done the double twice.
Mourinho hasn’t just done it with major clubs who had a lot of money to spend. He won the UEFA Cup and Champions League with Porto in back to back years on a shoe string budget.
Ancelotti hasn’t.
Comparing Ancelotti to Ferguson is a little different, as Ferguson had all his success is just two countries, both of which were English speaking, with a very similar football culture. Ancelotti has been a success everywhere. Then again Ferguson achieved something special with a club like Aberdeen, with no money to spend, then dominated a league for 20 years.
It ain’t about the numbers Chris. Ancelotti improved Chelsea and he’s improved Real Madrid. He cleared up Mourinho’s mess with pretty much the same squad. Twice. That’s as direct a comparison as you could wish.
If you gave me the option (fanciful I know) of Carlo or Jose I’d take Carlo every time. Trophies, good football, no drama, no whining, no cheating.
What’s more both clubs played far better football with far less drama under Carlo. Ask Real Madrid fans who they prefer.
His job at Milan was to keep an ageing squad competitive in the Champions League and boy did he succeed.
Nice article.
I am not upset about last season, I was proud of our achievements.
What is winding me up is Rogers not using the squad / Formations pragmatically in order to stabilise us.
I was proud of the MADRID performance and thought we would build on that.
I believe the best team to get us through this period is. Sam Manq kolo Skrytel mor, lucas can Henderson, Studge Cout and Sterling
Good article. It hints at not seeing much steel, both physically and mentally.
Kolo and Lucas from now until the last CL group match could well provide that. Taking Lovren and Johnson out of the side would help the mentality of others. Coutinho and Allen does the same for the steel.
I don’t think anyone knows what to do with the Captain. It’s a double-edged sword. Doing nothing however, almost guarantees more harm than good.
Rubbish, Rodgers is a liability… He got away with it last season because of Suarez. He covered up the gargantuan flaws in Rodgers’ ability, and made him look good. He has now been found out for the fraud he is. This is just fact.
Rodgers has bought poorly, AGAIN! His record in the transfer market is nothing short of criminal- he has no idea how to spot a decent player (barring injury prone sturridge, and maybe coutinho to an extent- again flukes on Rodgers part). 90% of his dealings have been absolutely atrocious -aspas, borini, balotelli, Allen, markovich, lambert, Lovren, Alberto, mignolet, et al … And then he sells agger for £3m. He’s determined to clear out who he hadn’t signed and replace with utter crap. He needs sacking, NOW!
How do you explain us not finishing 2nd or Suarez not scoring 31 goals under Kenny then?
Kenny had no idea how to get the best out of the players, and was happy to shun the fringe that worked so hard for him post Roy, in favour of shite like Adam and Downing.
It would seem as soon as an LFC manager does well in one single season or part of one, they get a new fat contract and a shit load of money to spend. The following season it all goes to shit and the club is set back 5 years.
Just because you say something is a fact doesn’t make it so. A fact would be with Suarez and before Rodgers arrived we couldn’t qualify for the CL never mind put in a title challenge. Now that’s a fact. Another fact would be we operate a transfer committee where no one man makes decisions on who we buy. That’s another fact. See how it works now.
And now without Suarez and Rodgers at the helm we will never qualify again for the CL.
The disgrace of it all is that Rodgers said the Real game was not an important game! And played a second fiddle team, all to have a stronger team to face Chelsea, so we can qualify for next years CL – you couldn’t make it up.
For that absolute sacrilege alone he should be shot
I think I did my “mourning” when Chelsea beat us 2-0. I knew the title was gone then.
There was no anger though. No blaming of any individual players or the manager. We’d played some breathtaking, nonsensical, beautiful, crazy attacking football. It was mad. We were mad. We had teams down 4-0 after 20 minutes. After xmas at home teams were 1-0 before they walked out of the tunnel. It hadn’t been like that in about 30 years.
The common consensus is that when Suarez wanted to leave that Summer we done with him what Utd did with Ronaldo. “Give us one more year and go to your dream club, not some club on our level.” That’s why there was no fight when Barca came in for him. And that was fine by me.
What’s not fine by me is about 95% of the stuff thats happened since. That’s why I’m angry. That’s why we’ve gone off the rails.
You say “This season has more in common with Brendan Rodgers’ first season in charge than it does his second season.” Factually you are correct, but that is not to say this season is anything like his first season in charge. Its just that last season was so so so different. For me his first and third seasons are nothing alike.
In his first season in charge, 2012/13, we were in a position of weakness. With our performances in the previous years, lack of funds and virtually unknown manager, we couldn’t attract any top players to Anfield. We brought in Borini, Allen, Assaidi, Yesil and Sahin on loan. We also knew the manager had to work with a load of dead wood and try to get rid of players on ridiculous wages through no fault of his own. Starting 2012/13 with 2 Wins, 3 Losses and 6 Draws from 11 games was easily forgivable.
Brendan was also giving youth a chance. If they performed they stayed in. Meritocracy is what he promised and we were getting it. We could also see little signs of us keeping the ball better and playing more from the back, again hallmarks of what was promised. The defence and in particular set pieces were an issue but give him time.
In the Winter he got many decisions right. Out went Cole, Doni and Sahin (having already tossed Adam and Aquilani) and in came Sturridge and Coutinho. But we now know the Coutinho deal was done under Kenny and he never wanted Sturridge at the club – or not long term anyway – but we didn’t know this at the time, thus leading us to believe virtually everything he was doing was positive.
All we (I, anyway) wanted was signs of things to come towards the end of the season. That’s what was delivered. Rodgers’ was gradually changing things and sorting problems out on the pitch. He could see faults. He reacted to problems. He could see what we saw. And he acted. 7 Wins, 4 Draws and 1 Loss to end the season playing good stuff in addition to ridding the club (or about to) of overpaid overrated footballers who never should have been brought to LFC.
But there was no expectation or pressure. As long as we weren’t in a relegation fight most of us didn’t mind were we finished in the league. 7th. Fine. He said in his 2nd year he wanted UCL qualification, in his 3rd a title challenge. We came 2nd in his second season so now there was expectation and pressure going into this season.
In this his third season in charge, 2014/15, we were in a position of strength. With a very good season behind us, a war chest of over £120 after the sale of Suarez and the top class players around Europe now knowing Brendan Rodgers’ name and what he was about, we were in a position of strength. We watched Spurs the year before. We knew what we had done the following Summer after our last two challenges. We knew what not to do. We knew how big the Summer was. And we fucked it up anyway.
Lambert and Balotelli, target men into a fast flowing attacking machine? No marquee signing? Ok. But not buying strikers who will be suited? Not ok. Manquillo when we have Wisdom? £20m for Lovren whose defence conceded 46 with two holding midfielders? Hmmm, maybe they’ve seen something in him I havent. £25m for Lallana? He’s good but is he that good? Who else was in for him? I’d seen Moreno and Can and thought they looked good. Watched Markovic once and he was poor but you don’t judge one player on one effort. That’s what I said in the Summer so there’s no hindsight at work there. So, after all that, in contrast to his first season, starting 2014/15 with 4 Wins, 5 Losses and 2 Draws from 11 games is not easily forgivable.
Brendan hasn’t been giving youth a chance. Maybe they’re not good enough but it still stands opposite to his first season. He has moved away from meritocracy. Now its a favourites-based system of selection. He is demoralising the spirit of fringe players. We have no identity. No death by football. No mad attacking. He isn’t seeing the problems he once did. If he is he isn’t acting on them the way he once did. Mario up front on his own? Two years ago he was seen as brave. This year he’s been bollockless. And what about the defence and defending set pieces? We gave him time. He’s thrown a lot of money at it. And it’s worse now than it was before he came.
Stevie, you say you think we’ll never have a good defence under Rodgers regardless of our personnel. That is extraordinarily pessimistic but it’s difficult to disagree. That is a fundamental problem. I loved last season. All the goals. All the madness. But I’ve not seen a bad defence win the league. Or the Champions League. I’ve not seen a bad defence sustain success for a club.
Given all the above there is a justification for the anger who write of. Those expressing that anger aren’t aiming to consume ourselves but are trying to make Brendan see sense. Anfield hadnt felt like Saturday since Hodgson. Eventually something will have to give.
I am sorry mate but the situation regarding rafa last season and this season is completely different and opposite sides of the spectrum. A lot of supporters like myself disagreed with the decision regarding rafa leaving and knew that we would be moving backwards. Rafas last season was with hicks and Gillett and the club heading towards bankruptcy in fact 09/10 was a summer of profit regarding transfers. ..not spending £120 million gross in 1 summer ! It’s easy to forget the mans achievement but let’s just say we booed going top of the league so I guess we were bit spoilt !!
Chris,
If you haven’t read War and Peace, I think you should. Right up your street.
Damon,
If anyone finds my posts too long or complex they are free to gloss over them. Tolstoy they are not.
Excellent piece Chris, well thought out with detailed comparisons. One of those that makes you sit and reflect for a minute before reading on.
Ignore the idiots, Chris.
Thanks very much lads
No point looking back, nothing to see there. Let’s get behind the manager, critically if need be. He has a couple of weeks to take stock after this last week’s meltdown. Let’s hope he grows a pair in the meantime and makes the tough decisions required.
At the moment Rodgers can’t see the woods the through the tree’s, and as for supporters booing him, am totally against that, but at the moment Brendan ain’t helping himself, if 45,000 people can see what our problems our and share the same solution to them problems but our manager can’t, then this season is gonna be even more frustrating than anything we’ve seen, even worse than hodgson and rafa’s final season as well.
Too many people are putting all there hopes on Sturridge being the saviour, but how can we justify putting that much pressure on a player who’s missed 215 days in six seasons of football ? Answer is you can’t, I think we need to all get behind Rodgers and the team and assess the situation at the end of the season, and if it’s a divorce that’s needed then so be it, but that’s just gonna put us back even further which means more anger in the stands, and more dark days following our beloved football team.
Wow, another article on TAW and another good talking point. Seems to have been a lot of good articles this week. Got me wondering if this is how it might be throughout winter. Everyone staying in wanting to write something about the club because there’s nothing else to do. Let’s hope so.
It’s like a CIA ploy. Pay 1000 people to come out on the streets protesting, the media show it and before you know it others who feel disillusioned about something join in and it becomes a revolution. I suppose because of social media ‘The Arab Spring’ would be a better analogy of how it plays out but as we saw it can occasionally die back down too.
Everyone was pissed off on Saturday. We’re both entitled and right to have been. It all felt wrong but as Rob pointed out on the podcast – we didn’t do that bad in spells. Make no mistake, it certainly wasn’t great in spells either. Can was tired though when he came off. Coutinho too if we’re honest. I think it was the culmination of a trying week. But this is what they’ve waited for. The anti-Rodgers brigade have come out of their boxes and are shouting the loudest – buoyed by their new justification (ref the latest TAWMAG intro) The press love it too. It’s all about hits now. Stories don’t need to be accurate. If they get the hits then they’re achieving their goals. I woke up to ‘Rafa in line for Anfield return’ a couple of days ago. Another one recently, ‘Liverpool lead race to sign top Barca talent’. I clicked the link and imagine my disappointment when it was a 7 year old boy. Anyway, agree it’s spiralling out of control. We’re all guilty of blowing it out of proportion. The sensible ones have got to get a grip of the ones waivering now and rein them in. Some are too far gone. Fuck them. Nothing can be gained from this right now. It has to stop. Getting back on track should be the only priority. International break. No football for ages, deep breath, and relax.
Nail on the head, were paying for last season and Rodgers could be forced out because he did too well last season, its madness, but most people can’t seem to separate last season with this. Because last season is what we should be, Rodgers showed us how good we could be, just like rafa, but madder. And now its a stick to beat him with. I don’t see him seeing out the season, though I hope im wrong. we need a big january
Can we just dispense with the ‘we are not an ordinary club’ myth? Once upon a time we were not an ordinary club, but we’ve had three owners in a handful of years and some people think we are set for another; how does that differentiate us from Leeds?
I don’t want to dwell on Rodgers because I can’t be objective but My mother would say ‘he’s all wind and pish’. Steadfastness in the face of adversity is admirable, but donkey-like steadfastness is called something else…
I have my moments with Rodgers, not least because he is as pig headed stubborn as they come but he deserves patience.
This is his first season of UCL football on top of domestic stuff and he needs to adapt just as much as the players.
Yes he deserves stick for persisting with a head gone Lovren and any fool can see Balotelli can’t play up top by himself (bar Rodgers, unfortunately) but I still cling to the hope that Sturridge’s return will reinvigorate us and that LFC have a striker lined up in January who isn’t a big target man.
Chris,
Your reply is better than the article absolutely spot on
Well, given that I rate the writing of the article (even though I disagree with a few things contained within) I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you very much.
Steven’s done a very good job of putting his points across in 1000 words – something I very rarely achieve (as some like Damon above have realised).
As Robin says above, the standard of writing on here this past week or two has been very high. Some great pieces. Just like in the last mag. Neil and Gareth in particular have distinct voices in their commentaries. Very enjoyable despite the season we’re having.
Not sure I’ve thanked TAW contributors for their efforts so I’ll do that now. Thanks lads and lasses and keep doing what you’re doing. It’s appreciated.
Nice one, mate. It’s great to see people like yourself regularly reading and commenting, we all really appreciate it.
No worries at all.
The articles, our reaction then the writers’ interaction are what makes this place a bit different I think from plenty of other LFC related sites. Long may it continue.
Second place last season was achieved by players already at the club when Rodgers was appointed, bar Mignolet and Sturridge (who he didn’t want.) Like Swansea, Rodgers took over a squad that needed tinkering. It was obvious – early – that Tikka takka was not the way and the remainder of the season continued largely tactics-free, because of the happy accident of S-S and to a lesser degree Sterling.
Second went to his head, and he now thinks he’s a genius. He totally disregarded the bleeding obvious, that the keeper made the defence nervous and something needed doing about it. Sold Reina out of spite, in my jaundiced view, and now the reality of CL football has hit him he can’t cope.
When he arrived with his ‘football manual’ I thought it was a joke, but he was serious. But reading all the James Bond books doesn’t teach you how to be a special agent.
Spot on- Rodgers is all about ego and he hasn’t won a single thing to justify his disgraceful arrogance! We’ll never win a thing with him in charge.
He thinks he is Bill Shankly mark 2 – he’s not worth the sh!t on his boots
Give it a rest, Brian. You don’t need to post your anti Rodgers bile everywhere. Go have a wank or something. He’ll be fired if the current form continues.
Yes indeed. TIA is the site for you Brian, you’ll find lots of buddies on there.
Oh do you post to make friends Kev? Awwww bless, best not say anything too fierce then. Is it bedtime yet for you soon?
Everywhere? Where else have you seen my posts?
Typical reaction from someone who doesn’t agree with my opinion. I’ll keep coming out with my “bile” until Rodgers is gone. He is the reason for our abysmal showing this season and has guaranteed mediocrity for the next 5 years, with his destruction of our squad. We are mid table team now, that is now fact in my humblest.
Brian, what happens if this international break has given Rodgers time to reevaluate a few things and he gets back to doing what he was doing in his first year? And we win a few games, make a good signing or two in January and get 4th come May?
Surely you can’t continue to post the way you have and call for his head?
Now admittedly I’ve been very critical of him and don’t see the above happening, but so long as its possible is the end of the season not the time to make a judgement?
Fed up of Liverpool fans saying their opinion is ‘fact’; It needs drawing a line under. For a kick off, It’s a subconscious reference to every knobhead in the country with a passing interest in football saying we didn’t win the title in 2009 because Benitez’s ‘rant’ (where he read from a sheet of paper – have that for unfettered anger) meant he lost the ‘mind games’ to Ferguson even though we gave them a lesson at Old Trafford and then continued to put our best run of that season together.
Anyway, couldn’t agree more with your piece Steven – we’ll never not be hysterical at this stage, we’re too far gone. Just because we came 2nd last season everyone’s saying this season so far reminds them 09/10 but I’m getting more 11/12 vibes myself. Don’t think the league form in the second half of the season will as bad because Rodger’s teams seem to improve as seasons go on and yet we’re still good for the league cup like Kenny’s year. Brendan’s the owner’s man as well so as long as he doesn’t somehow become a bad coach overnight he’ll be fine. I’d be genuinely surprised if things remained as bad as they’ve been from September up to now, never mind actually getting worse.
We’ve spent a lot of money on acquiring a squad that has enough depth if not seemingly the requisite quality which is another similarity but for me Balotelli to Sterling and Coutinho reminds me of Carroll to the likes Suarez and Maxi where you’ve got players who thrived off movement and intricate, progressive football at the tail end of the season before having to play with a target man who through no fault of his own just doesn’t seem like the type of player whose game is going to get the best of this team and it’s best players. Plus nothing screams 2011/12 like a manager trying to play an attacking style while his center forwards miss sitters. Sturridge this season feels like a comparable loss to Lucas that season too.
What Tom said.
We’re not supposed to follow Tottenham Hotspur’s behavior? Well, we’re certainly following Arsenal’s at the moment aren’t we? Constantly flirting but winning nothing!
This is Rodgers third season….let me repeat that THIRD SEASON! If we don’t win anything, what next? Losing out the Champions League spot means seeing players like Sterling and Sturridge leaving surely.
I say stop justifying mediocrity….this is Liverpool, and the Liverpool way is winning!
I’m not sure if everyone (including Rodgers and the owners) appreciate how instrumental to our future finishing top 4 is this season.
If we finish 5th or lower you can be sure as shit that we will have clubs circling to take the likes of Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling and others. Will we be able to hold on to all of them? I doubt it!
Then we need to take into account, not only the added CL money being lost, but also the massive increase in CL money for the 15/16 season. That will set us back massively and have FFP implications.
How then do we attract that top quality player?? We don’t have the status of a CL club! We don’t have the money to buy them! We don’t have the money to pay them!
If we drop out of the CL places in all liklihood Utd are the ones to replace us and with their resources they’re not likely to drop out again. If we manage to keep them out of top 4 it will be a major step forward towards overtaking them and staying above them for some considerable time.
There’s a whole heap of reasons why not making CL this season can be disasterous for us and they are all interlinked.
We will not make top 4 – the season is a write off already. Losing 5 out of 11 league games against lesser (?) opposition is relegation form. The blame lies squarely with Rodgers and his stubborn ineptitude.
I’d love to see the back of him. I’ve never lined him and for all we did last season, I was pulling my hair out on most of the games I was watching. The terrible performances were covered up by suarez’s goals, and results mattered so his overdue criticisms were brushed under the carpet. He is a fraud and should be sued for the £220m he has wasted.
Brent Rodgers out!!
Brian, now you are talking complete shit. Do one, will ya? Or piss off to Chelsea.
Piss off to Chelsea? Why should I do that?
Just because I don’t approve of Rodgers, doesn’t mean I don’t support LFC, I always will. Rather than the typical “support another team”, why don’t you debated with me?
Rodgers, in my view, is not the solution to the problems he has created. IMO he is a charlatan who talks a good game but in reality is out of his depth. He hasn’t taken us a step backwards, but three or four. The reason for no marquee signings sis because none want to play for him. For this read benzema, falcao, Sanchez et al. It turns out he didn’t want sturridge initially but was foisted on him. This for me sums up his ineptitude in spotting a good player. Also sounds like coutinho was always an LFC concern before Rodgers even came on board so can you name me a single Rodgers signing that has been a success?
We’re almost certainly going to fall out the top four this season, which would mean sterling doing one, and probably sturridge in all. Then what, back to square one, or minus one? Rodgers is an impostor, and he’s wasting money on crap. Manure fans are already calling him agent Rodgers, and I really do believe he is a slow acting poison on the Club. I can’t stand his pontifications and his air of arrogance like he’s made it …. He’s won nothing and never will. Forget the league cup, or fa cup either.. There are better teams out there. I look at the fixture list and can see us strypuggling in all of them.
For me it’s just a waiting game till he is sacked, and likely not to happen till end of the season unfortunately. There are some people who are hoping for a good January! What the f*ck? Suggesting we give the blithering idiot another fortune to waste, are people mad? The joker is a confirmed liability in transfer dealings, I have nothing but contempt for him
Haha! Ok now everyone knows you’re trolling. Tipped your hand going OTT there. I got a chuckle out of you anyway.
I don’t mean to troll, I am just so frustrated with Rodgers I am fit to burst. He persists with things that don’t work instead on doing the things we did last season that made us the team we were. Look at his stubbornness around formations. Why doesn’t he play 2 up front like we did last season. Of course, he’s got the hump with borini for not leaving this summer after Rodgers promised him chances… I’m glad borini dug his heels in. He was lured under false pretences and Rodgers decides he is not good enough and wants to get rid. You made your bed Rodgers, lie in it.
FFP doesn’t matter if the club fails to qualify for Euro competitions.
LFC will never overtake MUFC. They are a financial monster without the need of oil money. They merely need stability, which I hope they never find ;-)
Intrigued to read above from an earlier poster that the Coutinho deal was struck during Dalglish’s time, hadn’t heard that before, is this conjecture or fact? Would love a source to that story if anyone has it?
Also that Sturridge was not a Rodgers choice but a committee one…again this is something that as far as I can tell has only started cropping up in the last couple of months. Or did I miss something when he was signed??
Agree that Rodgers’ transfer record is shocking but the two best buys during his time are now being painted as not really his choices anyway…would just like to know whether this is accurate or a revisionist view to further undermine the boss?
Coutinho was “spotted” by Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter.
Fallows helped create ProZone, the player tracking service which was the first to provide incredible detail on all players. In 2007 Sam Allardyce then hired him to head Bolton’s scouting department. People forget how into sports science Big Sam is. Anyway Fallows was quickly brought to Many City under their new owners in 2008.
Hunter is from Coleraine, not a million miles from where Rodgers is from and is only a few years older. He was also a player at Reading when Rodgers was their youth coach. They know each other well. Hunter was a scout for a few clubs before scouting for City in 2008. He got promoted to senior scout covering Italy for Mancini.
Fallows in particular picked up on Coutinho in 2009. They knew him from the Brazilian youth set up but didn’t pursue him. Hunter knew where he was going. Coutinho signed for Rafa’s Inter in 2010. Rafa called him the future and really rated him.
In 2011, LFC approached Fallows to work for us as head of recruitment. He agreed. Kenny was boss at the time. City put him on gardening leave til his contract was up in Summer 2012 so he couldn’t officially work for us. So he was being brought to LFC before Brendan was. When Brendan was appointed he asked for Hunter to be brought with Fallows. Job done.
Now I don’t know how it could possibly have happened, what with Fallows on gardening leave and thus not allowed to work for us, but Coutinho’s name was mentioned to us as a player worth going after for about £5m-£6m in January 2012. We spoke with Inter but they decided, wisely, it would be better to send him on loan.
He went to Espanyol from Jan to May 2012, were he was managed by Mauricio Pochettino. He performed well. The asking price went up. We agreed to meet in in the Summer of 2012, but with Kenny getting sacked, Brendan being appointed and scouts coming and going, operations being up in the air, a deal never got done. Rodgers having never seen him also played a part.
Then came Jan 2013 and us ready to go through with the deal we had in place, this time with Brendan on board. Coutinho wasn’t sure at first because he knew we wanted him before we appointed Rodgers and wanted to know if Brendan really did want him. Pochettino actually tried to steal him and sign him for Southampton. Coutinho knew he’d play there and have the trust of the manager. We became a bit desperate in the end and flew Ayre over to get the deal done. Given Ayre’s record, surprisingly we got the player.
And that’s how Coutinho came to Anfield.
The Daniel Sturridge deal is much simpler.
After letting Carroll go out on loan in Summer 2012 we needed at least one more striker to act as back up to Suarez and Borini. Rodgers wanted Walcott but had no chance. It was late in the window. Hunter suggested Sturridge. Rodgers was ok with it as long as it was a loan. Sturridge more or less told Rodgers to fuck off, he wanted a permanent move. Rodgers didn’t budge. We missed out. It was a disaster. We as fans weren’t happy. FSG got the blame.
When the January window came around there was no fucking about. Rodgers relented given the months of limited options up front. We bought him and he became our best bit of business in a good few years.
I can’t really provide a source, sorry. But that’s what happened. Up to yourself if you want to believe it.
Sounds like a book about the Kennedy assassination there Chris. Very conveniently pushing all the credit to anyone except Rodgers. I’m pretty sure if Sturridge hadn’t worked out he would have been a Rodgers reject that he knew for his time at Chelsea. And i’m pretty sure that Rodgers, just like half the coaches in Europe knew exactly who Coutinho was.
As I said, believe what you want. What I’ve written is not a conspiracy theory. I think there’s been plenty of what I’ve said admitted in interviews here and there over the last couple of years. Don’t have the time to look for them.
I am not someone who wants Rodgers out and/or thinks he’s been piss poor since his arrival and that everything he’s ever done has been a monstrosity. I’ve praised him for many decisions he’s made, particularly in his first year at the club. I’ve continually said his first year has been underrated and his second overrated. But that doesn’t mean Coutinho and Sturridge were down to him. Ive also said he/LFC have been abysmal in the transfer market since his arrival. Is that really in doubt at this stage?
You say half the coaches in Europe knew who Coutinho was. I doubt it. If they did they were hardly banging Moratti’s door down to sign him, were they? He was a £3m signing, a young once promising Brazilian, seen nowhere near the level of a Neymar, and wasn’t good enough to get into an aging badly under performing Inter team. It was said he couldnt settle in Italy and would probably have to go back home. His options in leaving Inter were Southampton and us. Not exactly Bayern and Barcelona.
When it comes to Daniel, two things are fact. 1. Rodgers wanted Walcott. 2. When he couldn’t get Walcott, Rodgers initially refused to sanction buying Sturridge outright, instead wanting a loan.
But it’s hardly something to bash Brendan for. At the time Walcott was easily the better, more experienced, reliable and established player. It’s not a criticism. Ironically I think Theo would have been a very good signing, bar his injury record. Then again Daniel spends plenty of time with the physio too.
Sturridge was a £12m gamble Brendan didnt want to take at first. How could he, or any of us, have known how good he was going to be? He never cut it at City or Chelsea and there was a question mark over his attitude.
The only criticism you could level with Rodgers here is that he knew he had very little up front from September to January by rejecting a permanent move that he went on to say yes to anyway. But as I said above, it was difficult for him to know at the time. That criticism can only be leveled using hindsight.
If you don’t believe any of that, dig around. Im sure you’ll find something to disprove a lot of very specific claims I’ve made.
I have heard from a reliable Chelsea source that the London club virtually forced Rodgers to take Sturridge to Liverpool. Rodgers had messed them about rotten previously, not only with Sturridge but with other players on loan (most notably at Swansea) and this was their “put up or shut up” moment to him. He took Sturridge and the rest is history.
There is nothing wrong with luck. A lucky general is better than a good general, to paraphrase Napoleon.
LFC are nothing like we used to be. On and off the pitch. Cold and uninterested in the fans. No emotional investment in the fans. The distance between the players and the fans is huge, even with social media and games on TV. So if that’s what you mean by ‘off the rails’ – then yes, well and truly.
Paul, agreed there- FFP doesn’t matter if we don’t qualify for Europe- but they take previous years into account, so every spurge becomes more important in terms of working or not working. After 3 months, it looks like we’ve done poor business this year- but that’s only three months! After 3 months, Suarez didn’t look a world beater (he was). Henderson didn’t look a premiership regular (he is). So there’s time for the new lads to fire. (I have a suspicion- groundless based on his current showings- that Markovic could be a real find. Time will tell).
The talk of Rodgers leaving is all light and no heat- it’s ridiculous to even think about, given his achievement last year. Also, this is a team built in his image; another coach would just mean a merry-go-round of coaching and playing staff.
We are not the kind of club that hit the ground running with new managers! Houllier finished lower in his first season than Evans in his last; Benitez lower in this first season than Houllier in his last; you’d have to be on crystal meth to think that given a full season Hodgson would have outperformed Benitez. Only when Dalglish came in did we get a significant upturn in form from a new appointment- and following Budgie that was a uniquely low starting point!
The lesson- we are not the kind of club that benefits from a kneejerk sacking. (I’ll tell you the kind of clubs that are, and they don’t sit in the top half of the table).
There’s evidence from his seasons here and at Swansea that Rodgers teams improve in the second half of a season. Some managers overtrain players early to built up conditioning for later in the season. (Think of how leggy we were in the first month of last season). There you go- glass is quarter full!
Take Costa out of Chelsea, Sanchez out of Arsenal, Aguero out of City. Result- you lose between 40-50% of that team’s goals. Same for Sturridge. The difference- they have missed their lads for a game here in there, we have missed ours for 2 months. Glass is now half full is it not?
The only danger is that we are returning to an attempt to play the ‘sterile domination’ style of Rodger’s Swansea and Liverpool late 2012 sides. I think that’s more a result of personnel available than a revertion to dogma. If it continues in that regard, I’ll be worried. These next six games are season defining. But there are reasons to be cheerful.
Of course FFP matters if we don’t qualify for Europe. The teams that qualify next season will receive a massive increase in money due to the new CL deal being implemented. FFP looks at your incomings and outgoings to see if you are sustainable as a club from the previous 3 yrs. Missing out on 10s of millions will naturally have an affect on our future if we want to get into the CL and stay there.
To Brian Rodriguez
Last time I checked we were still 4 points from 4th. We’ve had a terrible start to the season but so have Arsenal,Man u,Everton and Tottenham and you have to ask why? Its because the quality of the lower down teams have improved.It’s not the situation any of us wanted but with Suarez leaving Sturridge out and so many new faces finding there feet it’s happened deal with it and support the team and manager. We will improve and start a charge towards the top 4 no doubt about it and a lot of “fans” will look daft.
I sincerely hope so… I’d love to add my hat to my 3 course meal
A charge towards top 4! How wonderful.
How about a decade of achieving top 4, without winning anything. Some fans would love that.
Just imagine how much more fun life would be if…..
Mignolet
Mankini – Lovern – Sakho – Moreno
Henderson – Can
Lallana – Suso – Coutinho
Sterling
Subs: Jones, Toure, Skrtel, Gerrard, Lucas, Borini, Balotelli
“Hipsters Choice XI”
purrrrrrrr…..
Get with the programme, mate! Daniel Sturridge captains the hipsters XI:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/why-is-daniel-sturridge-the-only-hipster-footballer
I read your posts regularly Chris and I have enjoyed them mostly. It’s obvious you love the club and I appreciate the effort you put in. I was just having a bit of banter.
The ‘Barcelona Model’ is still being lauded, even though the game shows signs of moving on. But in Australia there is a young manager (Josep Gombau), former coach of the Barcelona youth academy, who is everything our manager is not. Barca style yes, but tikka takka with balls. His teams play attacking and imaginative football, no wasting corner kicks by lobbing it
onto the heads of defenders as we do, for instance, and free kicks are worked rather than taken. Okay, it’s a weak footballing nation, but the point is that Gombau has studied the whole script and not just chapter 1 which BR keeps reading.
The stats showed that we had close to 60% possession against Chelsea…55% of which was passing back and forth along the edge of our own penalty area. I have never associated that with Barcelona.
It was reported today that Vakdes had not sorted out his future yet, but that LFC is unlikely to attract him because he feels we are not competitive. Two more weeks of the current tactical vacuum and we may find the January window leaking players rather than attracting them. After all, we generally look on teams outside the top half dozen as teams to raid – why should we be any different??
That’s it – I’ve had enough of the toing and froing of this debate, it’s like watching a Brendan Rodgers team
Interestingly Pep stated recently that he ‘fucking hates tiki taka’. Too passive for him, he’s all about purpose.
Like most Reds fans, I am finding watching our team depressing this season, and I don’t think it has anything to do with our title near-miss last time round. It’s simply to do with the lack of movement and invention in attack and the lack of competence in goal and defence.
All that said, I agree that it would be madness to start talking about Rodgers needing to leave. He showed last season that he is capable of great things, albeit with lots of generous dollops of luck, and for that reason alone he needs to be given time to build his own LFC and bring success. I’d rather give him 3-5 years to really try and accomplish something, hopefully building a successful team along the way, and then, if it doesn’t work out, rethink things, rather than just sack him now and start the whole process all over again with yet another manager coming in and saying he needs several years to bring success back to Anfield. If another manager came in, we’d have to give him 3 years before we could expect him to accomplish anything. Let’s give that time to Rodgers. If it doesn’t work out, what have we lost? Three more years, after nearly three decades without the title. I’d take that.
3-5 years from now??
It’s ALWAYS 3-5yrs from now!! Liverpool fans have been extremely patient over the years. My patience is wearing very thin. If we want to be champions we need to start acting like champions and stop pussy footing around!
Well, it would depend on the owners on how much time the manager is given. Success is so subjective unfortunately. Here we are craving for winning something or at least be seen as seriously trying, the owner might see the outcome differently.
I don’t agree that success is subjective in Liverpool’s case. Moores said that “LFC exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters – it has no other purpose”, something I agree with. That means League Championships and European Cups, followed by FA and League Cups. It is as clear a measure of success that we have. It is subjective or relative when measured against other clubs’ criteria e.g. Arsenal see 4th place as a trophy. If we ever start a season without aiming to win the league then we will have lost the legacy Shankly left us. I think the reason lots of us are really disappointed is that hoping to win the league was replaced by a certain amount of expectation this season.
It’s a double edged sword mate. How many people would rather win the League Cup but miss out on top 4 than get top 4 and miss out on the League Cup? Did you not enjoy last season because we didn’t win a cup? We have to have different goals now. It’s nice and romantic to wanna win cups but Liverpool have to be one of the ‘great’ teams of Europe. That’s our identity more than winning cups. Obviously, it’s a result of winning cups in the past that we are one of the greats but the competition is fierce now. It’s unrealistic to expect to win like we did in the past. If the team aren’t among the elite then they’re not a source of pride to the people and no League or FA Cup is gonna change that. When I was young I really wanted a pair of Doc Martins boots. My mum and the divvy in the shoe shop were trying to get me to buy Doc Martin shoes because of what the boots represented. I was having none of it. A few days later my mum came home with a pair but they were imitation ones from Kwik Save and you could tell from a mile off. They had zero menace about them. The point is mate, they looked like boots and they felt like boots but I felt no pride wearing them. They didn’t feel like the real thing. They felt phoney. I remembered that story at the end of the 11/12 season.
All I’m saying is that Liverpool is a club that since the great Bill Shankly redefined us, has started every season with expectation or hope of winning the League. Every manager we’ve had (probably excepting Hodgson) has shared that burden/heritage. Rodgers, from his interminable sound bites, reflects that and understands that he hss been hired to win the League and European Cup, as all Liverpool managers have. I hope he achieves this.
By the way, my prefered Kop footware throughout the 70’s was Doc Martens (sic).
You should have used an i if you wanted to use (sic). Anyway, you would be able to spell it. You saw the label everyday when you put them on. I can spell Kwik Save perfectly. I remember in about 89 / 90, if Chester had an away game I went to that rather than Liverpool’s game. About 30 or 40 of us used to go on the train, all in kickers and flares. Always remember the cockneys staring in disbelief. Couldn’t get their heads round it then a few months later they’d come to ours all wearing them.
Not many fans would complain if we were to replicate last season’s push towards top spot in the league, falter but qualify for CL. I did not care about the leaky defence, one of our worst in recent times, last season when every attack we made looked like producing a goal. Forgotten were the shortcomings of the manager, the shadiness of the owners or what the future might bring because everything was sweet. Liverpool at its best, it was going to be our year again, at long last! So many records broken. We got our swagger back again!
Currently, many of us doubt we will see it happening again pretty soon. It is only natural to start questioning things when our thirst for glory is not satiated, when the future looks to be grim. Then imagine when someone tells you that it is okay, we should accept it because …….. (insert excuse). Not so easily swallowed this bitter pill.
Brilliant – just damn brilliant. I’m not actually hurting over last year too much so maybe that’s why I’m not afraid of or panicking about this year’s stuttering start. I just saw last year as an unexpected mad bonus that came ahead of schedule. It just showed me that Rodgers has what it takes when his squad of players are settled. In Brendan I trust – YNWA!!!