THIS weekend was the moment that belief degenerated into hope for me. I no longer have any degree of certainty that Brendan Rodgers turns this around. I still think the season is salvageable (have you seen the state of the Manchester United side that currently sits in fourth place?) and sincerely want the manager to reverse the team’s fortunes but, if I’m totally honest, I have little confidence in that happening any more.
12.30 on Sunday was my own personal tipping point.
Watching this Liverpool side right now is akin to the movie Groundhog Day without Bill Murray; Repetitive, mundane, predictable, inevitable and no bloody fun whatsoever. Each time match day rolls around I hope for change. Then the team sheet is released an hour before kick-off and the realisation that precious little has altered and the same monotony will envelop us once more sinks in. Same faces, same approach, same mind-boggling decisions.
It’s easy to say this after the fact of course, but was anyone really surprised by what transpired at Selhurst Park after they saw Liverpool’s latest starting line up? I know I wasn’t. There were no solutions offered up to the problems that have plagued the team this season. The comical centre back partnership remained intact still with a lack of a screener in front of them and Glen Johnson found his way into the first 11 yet again.
1.5 – Liverpool have conceded an average of 1.5 goals per game this season in the PL (18 in 12 games), their worst ever rate. Listing.
— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) November 24, 2014
Ah, Glen. Can anyone explain why he was accommodated once more or why he was deployed on the left side? I’m assuming he didn’t start at right back because Yannick Bolasie’s pace would have torn him to shreds. Understandable. But why start him over one of the few summer signings who have actually impressed this season? Alberto Moreno has pace and gets the team up the pitch. Isn’t playing without natural width in midfield – as Liverpool did on Sunday – generally offset by having at least one full back capable of offering an attacking outlet in wide areas? Moreno does that. Johnson doesn’t. Not in 2014. He still meanders forward now and again, albeit with the threat of a sedated puppy. Yet he also requires constant protection even when he’s matched up against a bang average winger like Jason Puncheon.
At least the man charged with supporting him did his job admirably before he was predictably hauled off for no discernible reason other than the fact that he isn’t named Steven Gerrard.
Joe Allen was Liverpool’s outstanding performer against Palace. He offered constant support and protection for Johnson on the left. He kept the ball. He moved. He pressed. He tackled. He created a great opportunity for Rickie Lambert. Then he got hooked while the skipper remained on for yet another 90 minute slog before undoubtedly being required to do the same again just 72 hours later in Bulgaria. Immaculate planning, that.
Everyone knows how much Gerrard is struggling right now and he had a stinker once more against Palace. Yet, despite Lucas and Emre Can being available from the bench and Allen impressing in midfield, the captain remained out there for the duration as Rodgers once again took the easy option of replacing the diminutive Welshman rather than the labouring club icon.
Speaking of easy options, one would have thought there was a pretty simple selection choice on offer at the heart of Liverpool’s defence for Brendan Rodgers against Palace. The return of Kolo Toure at the expense of Dejan Lovren is seen by most as somewhat of a no-brainer. We’ve been at the point for too long now where Lovren’s mere presence alone is basically costing Liverpool a goal a game. Toure impressed everyone in Madrid and yet hasn’t even had a look in since. So much for that ‘meritocracy’.
Toure again didn’t get a second on the pitch in South London. Instead it was another game, another Lovren start and another crucial goal that could be chalked up to farcical ‘defending’ from the Croatian. At this point I can only assume that Rodgers was personally responsible for recruiting the former Southampton man this summer. That’s the only possible reason I can see for the myopic approach he’s adopting when it comes to the out of form £20m centre back.
Mamadou Sakho was brought in for a similar fee last season and hasn’t received half of the backing and patience from Rodgers that Lovren has been afforded. The Frenchman may hardly been faultless during his time at Anfield but his replacement has made double the mistakes in a quarter of the game time. If Sakho’s form had been as poor as Lovren’s I’m certain that Rodgers would’ve bombed him out long ago yet, infuriatingly, the Croatian remains a fixture in the first team. Unless the manager is sticking by Lovren because he personally handpicked him as the solution to Liverpool’s defensive woes this summer then I’m truly at a loss to explain the continued stubborn persistence with the player.
This isn’t intended to simply be a hatchet job on Lovren, Gerrard and Johnson. Plenty of other players are underperforming also but the managerial approach to these three best symbolises Rodgers’ ongoing resistance to change and my exasperation with his team selections.
All three men have been horribly out of form for a prolonged period of time now and yet they are constantly selected ahead of players who have performed relatively well when given a chance in their absence. It’s not hard to imagine what the likes of Toure, Lucas, Can and Moreno were thinking as they watched Liverpool on Sunday when Lovren, Johnson and Gerrard all made it to the final whistle yet again.
Lovren has made 5 defensive errors in the 2014/15 PL. Most by any outfielder in either of last 2 full seasons is 6 pic.twitter.com/KRwFebfJH2
— Andrew Beasley (@BassTunedToRed) November 24, 2014
If the preferential treatment to Lovren can be chalked up to him being a ‘Rodgers signing’ then the only possible reason for Gerrard’s continued presence in the team that my brain can muster is arguably even more concerning.
Basically it seems to me to come down to the fact that this manager doesn’t have the balls to drop or even substitute his club captain regardless of how he is performing. Gerrard isn’t offering any protection to a defence that requires it in spades right now and his offensive weapons are no longer hurting opponents. Playing 90 minutes in virtually every game is doing him no favours whatsoever. He looks physically and mentally drained, devoid of confidence and belief. What harm could come from using him as an impact player from the bench for a while?
To be honest I’m sick of even thinking about what Liverpool could or should be doing when it comes to the deployment of Gerrard. It’s something that people have been debating all season long despite the fact that we all know it’s a futile discussion. Rodgers isn’t dropping Gerrard any time soon and while the skipper isn’t Liverpool’s biggest problem, the fact that he seemingly has to play in this team irrespective of how poor his form is is damaging the team and putting the manager under more pressure.
Admirably, Rodgers acknowledged after the Palace debacle that his job will be on the line if results don’t improve. While that is commendable it is only going to be of any real significance if it drives him to a new approach. Quite why he wouldn’t make sweeping changes from here on in is beyond me. It’s his head on the chopping block and maintaining the status quo is only going to see his reputation and job security diminish further. He’s been eating his way through a sh*t sandwich for months now and yet inexplicably hasn’t decided to order something else from the menu. He just keeps chewing and hoping it will eventually taste better.
I wrote a piece just a few days back stating that Liverpool had six winnable games in a row and could get their season back on track over the next few weeks. I firmly believed it possible if the manager made some changes. At 12.30 on Sunday my belief that improvement was imminent all but evaporated. It seems clear now that Rodgers isn’t changing. He’s doubling down. He’s sticking by his underperforming players, ignoring alternatives and hoping these lads will magically rediscover their form. It’s a hell of a gamble and evidence suggests the odds are well and truly stacked against him.
The manager is in a hole and he’s only digging himself further into trouble at the moment. I suppose all we can do is hope, like him, that things somehow get better from here. But when ‘hope’ is all you have left to cling to you know you are in serious trouble.
Pic: David Rawcliffe
To the writer wot else can Br do? Start listening to Internet advice, poondits, armchair experts in how to pick his team? He’s done the moment he does that his players won’t play for him. There in lies the rub he s stuck so he embraces his favorites closer and closer lest he lose their support too. I hope fsgs supposed support I him gives him renewed courage to drop gerrard and make he other big calls but as u say I doubt he will, I still think he shoulda stuck with that so called reserve team he fielded vs Madrid. Sorry for typos run on sentences etc in advance
Completely agree with all this! I just don’t understand Rodgers thinking at all!
What does he see in our performances that warrants doing the same thing every match and playing the same players for 90mins every match?!!
We chased Moreno all summer, spent £12mil to bring him here then we drop him to play our worst performing right back in his stead!!!? What the fuck?!!
Thing is I don’t see Rodgers changing. I really don’t!
Will the owners trust him with any money come Jan??
I wouldn’t but we need to spend!!
We will know more when Sakho is fully fit again.
It’s astonishing though how people who comment on all these sites either choose to ignore or don’t seem to realize the that the players the say should be playing have been out injured for weeks at a time. Allen, Can, Sakho, & Levia have all missed weeks of the season with injuries.
Last seasons runners up are 3rd from bottom with 3 wins in 12 games. No, not us, Dortmund, home of Jurgen Klopp, our saviour according to some. Sh@# happens sometimes, let’s keep the faith YNWA
Klopp has about 158 injuries to contend with and wasn’t handed £120m in the summer to build a squad.
He’s also still doing quite well in the champions league.
Couldn’t have written it better. Out defence has got worse. This season is a carbon copy of last year, except, Suarez to bale out BR!
Moreno will be a great player for us, I’m convinced of it. But if you were to scroll down that ‘defensive errors’ infographic you would find him sitting with 2. He is directly responsible for 2 of the 18 goals we’ve conceded this season. I’m not ragging on him or even suggesting Johnson (who has been shit) should get picked ahead of him. But would Moreno for Johnson really have made *that* much difference on Sunday?
Lovren’s confidence is on the floor and should be rested for his own sake. But when Toure become Beckenbauer. I like the guy and even when he’s poor he’s a trier, but just how short are people’s memories? Again, I’m not wanting to slaughter the guy and I wouldn’t argue against his inclusion right now, but would Toure for Lovren really have made *that* much difference on Sunday?
Let’s change things around by all means, but I’m not buying this delusion that a little bit of Lucas here and some Toure there will transform us.
There will come a point where we start to play better because all the players in the squad are better than they have shown thus far. Whoever happens to be on the field that game will get the credit. But for my money, there are no personnel changes currently available to Rodgers that will mark a significant transformation in fortunes. He apparently thinks the same which is why he’s sticking the players he trusts most, regardless of form. He shouldn’t be immune to criticism for that, but I doubt in 10 years time people will look back on this period and say things like: “Can you believe that Rodgers fella wouldn’t play Toure?”
It’s not as if we’re talking about Geoff Thomas keeping Bobby Charlton out of the England team – although to listen to some people you’d think we were.
But why are there no personnel changes available to him that will significantly change things?!!
He’s just spent £120mil in the summer and the vast majority of players at the club are players he’s brought in so why then?
Maybe none of those personnel he wanted, wanted to come? Hindsight is not a good companion. What happened to the mario fantastico banners? Most thought he would come good as well. Cant talk now about 120m spent, its done with. If we all had hindsight beforehand noo mistakes would ever be made init? no, the real question is what now? Rodgers needs a paradigm shift in thinking to save the season now. He really has to come up with a stable, workable solution to A) stop us losing and B) start us winning again. My opinion is thats its time to ditch trying to make the players fit, lets make a system to fit whatever we got. Lets play like stoke if we have to if it gets us playing to an acceptable level. Rodgers has the talent to turn it around, right now he needs to trust himself to do it.
Players will come if you pay them enough. FSG will not sign a proven player on a high salary. The club is a mid-table side that over performs once in a while. Any young players overseas will think of LFC as a club of the past. The fans need to accept the club is not a draw without paying the money. Players approaching their peak would have still been going to school the last time LFC were considered a euro regular.
FSG might not want to pay “a proven player on a high salary”, well not for Liverpool at any rate. Red Sox – somewhat different! 5 guys earn over $10m, not bad. In 2010 they spent a reported $300m on 2 players – I wish.
Today FSG are reported to have lashed out $180m on two players for the Red Sox whilst Rodgers announces no new players for LFC. Make of that what you will, but for me FSG see the Red Sox as far more important than LFC. The new stand will be financed with sponsorship – good business but FSG don’t want to risk much on our club.
Frankie. When you talk about FSG not wanting to risk too much on our club, what do you mean by that?
How can you say none of the personnel he wanted, wanted to come?!?!
All 4 strikers at the club were brought in by him! Moreno was brought in by and was his first choice by all accounts! Can was brought in by him! Kolo and Sakho were brought in by him!!
There’s a major problem when money, sometimes big money, is being spent on players who are then left on the bench despite players on the pitch underperforming week in, week out!!
What does that say to the underperforming stars?
What does that say to those on the bench especially when they are called upon DO perform?
I would argue that it isn’t hindsight either…buts that’s for another day.
No, but he’s a fair match for Di Maria. Did you see that miss?!?! Thomasesque.
You’re not getting the point. I don’t think anyone here has short memories. It simply boils down to the fact that, would you still insist on under-performing players to save your season or would you rather play the players on the bench who are itching to prove a point?
I’ve helped run boys and girls football teams for nearly 15 years on and off and it’s never quite as simple as that. Managers often retain players who haven’t been hitting the heights in games, sometimes because they’ve continued to excel in training, or because a specific match against specific opposition is suited to the game of the players currently struggling, or because these players have struggled and come good in the past, or even because the manager just doesn’t fancy the alternatives that much. It happens every week up and down the country. Of course, when results are going well, fans tend not to look too closely at the form of individual players so when player X who has played below par for the previous 6 weeks is picked for the next game, no-one bats an eyelid. When results turn against the team, suddenly everyone is under the microscope and the form of individual players is scrutinized ever more.
Not complaining about that by the way – that’s the way it goes. Winning means you don’t have to explain yourself. I’m just making the point that Rodgers is not the first manager to stick with underperforming players and he won’t be the last.
Fwiw, I would be making changes now but I’d still be doing so out of hope more than expectation given I don’t think the alternatives are a significant improvement on what Rodgers has been selecting.
don’t you know how much of a difference toure’s inclusion made against real away? fans like you are shame accepting mediocrity at a club of the stature of liverpool.
Oh, and while I agree that it’s time to give Lovren a break from football and football a break from him, I think this is unfair:
“Lovren…and another crucial goal that could be chalked up to farcical ‘defending’ from the Croatian.”
As the guys on MOTD mentioned, that was some bit of skill by Bolasie, and even then it took Lovren to slip for that to matter. We are allowed to give credit to the forward from time to time.
he needs to be playing two up front. End of.
Baffling team selection yet again.
3 of the back four don’t deserve a start. Gerrard doesn’t know what position to take up.
Coutinho drifts in and out of games. Sterling is trying to fight fires in an attacking sense but can’t be in two places at once.
Lambert tried his best with very little direct support.
There was only ever one winner of that game and whilst the third was a top class goal the other two were utterly woeful.
Brownie It’s extremely silly that you defend Lovren. The guy has been an absolute shambles this season. Look at the stat for god’s sake- 5 defensive errors already when the total done in a whole season for the past two years is 6 by any outfield player. Lovren doesn’t know what he’s doing. We are basically playing with a handicap while he’s on the pitch. His head is not right and we can’t keep taking a gamble that he’ll get better. Kolo Toure however is not a long-term solution but showed in Madrid he can do a good job having kept so many top Madrid players off the score sheet by registering 7 blocks which is a record for a CL match by one player (look up the stats).
That was Crystal Palace we played yesterday, bloody Crystal Palace who before this match hadn’t won for 5 games. On Sunday morning they were in 19th position in the league. There are no excuses whatsoever for a club of Liverpool’s stature to lose 3-1 to Crystal Palace. That’s a farce.
I still stick behind Rodgers because of what he did last season but right now it’s more of blind faith than confidence in him. Rodgers has not shown any signs to improve things like having the cajones to drop underperforming players like Lovren, Gerrard and Johnson. You talked about Moreno having 2 defensive errors, well at lest he offers good attacking threat and has mostly been defensively solid except for when he hesitates in clearances in the box. Moreno is also hungry like Manquillo and both of these players put in a great shift. Johnson doesn’t care anymore and offers nothing both in attacking and defensively. Johnson is worse than Lovren in my opinion because he doesn’t even try. At lest with Lovren you can see he’s trying to impress, sometimes over trying, but really just can’t get his head right. I never want to see Johnson wear a red shirt again.
Well it’s not so much defending Lovren as not being prepared to throw him to the wolves. See above where I agree it’s time to pull him out so he can – like you say – get his head straight.
However, I don’t buy that he’s irredeemable shite and will never come good – he’s a first pick for Croatia who last time I checked are ranked higher than England. That doesn’t guarantee he’ll be a success, but 12 games into a difficult season in which virtually every other player has been substandard is no time to pass a final judgment.
His international manager has told him he’ll be dropped for a 19 year old unless his form picks up. That’s management for you. Not playing under-perfomers every week. Agree that he may come good in the long term, seems a long way off right now though.
This is the way to think about it really. He doesn’t deserve his place in the team ahead of Toure – arguably the same for Skrtel too, but we only have one available senior replacement at the moment and I think Lovren is more in need of a break. Toure should have been brought in short term, Sakho will be available to cover in the medium term and then long term, Lovren will either have trained his way back into contention ahead of Sakho/Skrtel, or will be considered irredeemable and shipped out.
Says Who?
I posted this following the podcast:
The Gerrard debate shouldn’t be a debate. Why are people still trying to find ways to shoehorn an under-performing player into the side? Drop him. We need a holding midfielder who can defend and someone to lead the side with some energy. He’s unable to do either at the moment, like some others here I don’t think he’s recovered from the Chelsea game towards the end of last season. Sad, but that’s where we are. As for the talk of his being an impact sub, I think its fanciful, but worth a try. We’re clutching at straws, his legs have gone. I’d love him to prove me wrong, but can’t see it.
On Gerrard, I’ve been a supporter for around 40 years and have never experienced anything like this sentimentality over an individual player, this determination to mask his flaws and play him come what may. It’s not the mentality of a successful club. I’ve seen stalwarts like Cally, Tommy Smith, Ray Kennedy, Emlyn Hughes, Phil Thompson and Phil Neal, serial winners one and all, moved on or dropped once they’d outlived their use. It’s the nature of the game. It’s what winning sides do. David Johnson was our top scorer and a great leader of the line, but was dropped for an unproven Welsh striker. There’s no room for sentiment at the top level, and we as a club and a group of supporters seem to have lost sight of that fact. Have we become a second rate club? Content to rest on our laurels, on memories of the past, like United in the 70s? We pined for more from Kenny, but he knew when to call it a day even if we didn’t. Players fade, it’s ok, let them go.
Cmon! 40 yrs and your this confused? i too grew up in the 70s so i was lucky to have seen the Glory years, but i would think the answer is so obvious. All this fuss over gerrard coz in the past 20 we have been SH.I.T.E!!! Its night and day between an all-conquering dynasty and a team that can barely compete. Wot one CL trophy in 20 years? This is what happens when you fall from grace and become a one man team which is what we have been for so long now. we cant replace quality, we cant find depth, we cant find consistency. All the more reason to hang in there with rodgers and fsg. Cant be ripping up the strategy boook every single time something goes wrong. thats what third world countries do ALL the time, they are BIG on starting things, and never seeing it through. We need too press on now, through the storm,come what may. nothing else will do.
Not confused mate, perplexed. I’m all for sticking with Rodgers just not with Gerrard (or Lovren, Johnson, Skrtl et al) – it’ll cost him his job.
Take a look at the calibre of player who took the place of most of those greats you list. Do we have a Ray Kennedy, or a Xabi Alonso, or even a Jan Molby sitting on the bench waiting to fill the space vacated by Gerrard? No. The great plan is to play Lucas as a DM and we magically start to score more goals.
Trebles all round!
That’s a spectacularly bad example Brownie, Ray Kennedy was replaced by a young boy from Home Farm. We’ve got plenty of youngsters ready to step up, isn’t that why we bought Emre Can?
The great plan, is to stop the rot: nothing more, nothing less, and in your heart you know it.
Everybody would like to stop the rot and again I am not saying that we shouldn’t make at least some changes, but there is an awful lot of revisionism with regards to Toure and Lucas who on the basis of one decent game of damage limitation have transformed from whipping boys into saviours, and anyone not immediately buying into this narrative is branded as thick.
You’re being a super fan. The sooner Gerrard leaves the club, the better. He’s nothing like the player he was yet he’s paid massive wages. Gerrard is a coward, he doesn’t want to leave his comfort zone but uses the media to wrangle a new big contract. He’s way beyond his best and does not deserve anything more. The club has already made him immensely rich for his services. Gerrard needs others to do a job for him, by his mere presence, he reduces the effectiveness of the water carriers. He’s a club legend, but he needs showing the door, even if it’s just a side door to the VIP / directors areas.
Brownie we got to stop the rot firstly.
If we don’t conceded goals the worst we can out of a match with is a draw.
Gerrards job in the team is as a quarterback but he has no one to pass too and he gives us zero protection in front of the defence so either take him out altogether or move him. Lucas knows all too well how to screen a defence so it makes sense to out him in.
It’s not a long term solution but as already said, we gotta stop the rot!
Gerrard played a huge part but it only made sense because rapid SAS were there for him to pass long too. Right now there is no movement for Gerrard to hit his hollywood passes for. Right now he offers us no attacking threat whatsoever except in set pieces. Also the fact that we have none of that SAS pressing from the front means we are more on the back foot and Gerrard is likely to be exposed by the opposition’s pressing. Last season the SAS fear factor meant teams would already have in mind to sit deeper so they won’t be hit on our devastating counter. No intensity in our game means Gerrard’s slow legs have no protection from the front.
He should therefore be moved out of that DM position for a real DM like Lucas and he should be made to play his best position- CAM. If he doesn’t have the energy to do that continuously he should be used as an impact player from the bench or be confined to 1 full match out of 2/3. Luis Enrique right now has the balls to drop Xavi for Barcelona and use him as an impact or squad player because he’s lost his legs. Alex Ferguson wasn’t scared of doing the same thing with Scholes and Giggs. I fear it will cost Rodgers his job if he doesn’t drop Gerrard.
It’s gotten so bad that despite how good or bad Gerrard is playing Rodgers is scared of subbing him. It’s a farce that Allen and Lallana, two of our best players yesterday were subbed because BR is scared of Gerrard. In the West Ham game when he was getting exposed and decimated by Downing, BR was asking Gerrard on the touch line whether he was okay to continue when it was clear he was physically incapable of meeting the intense challenge.
Alex Ferguson says you know when things have gone upside down when a player has more power than the manager. Rodgers needs to grow a pair.
Believe me fergie was saying smart things like that at the beginnin. He was like a scared puppy begging his players to bail him out (which luckily fr him they did) Even kenny spoke fr him as others here have said. Its easy t say things like that once you have WON things….
Aye, he got the breaks, but he dropped Robson as soon as his performances tailed off. It was the making of United (sadly).
“Right now he offers us no attacking threat whatsoever except in set pieces. ”
As opposed to some of his colleagues, who offer no attacking threat whatsoever including at set pieces.
You’re forgetting that a holding midfielder’s role is primarily defensive. If he’s poor defensively and adding nothing gong forward then what exactly is his use to the team?
Brownie, please make the case for Gerrard starting. Tell me what he brings to the table right now, not last season, not with Sturridge in the team, now. Base your analysis on his current form.
I said weeks ago that if Rodgers is going to stick with the one up top then he should have Gerrard more advanced with Lucas as the DM. Otherwise I agree that Gerrard’s better attributes are simply not being utilised and you may as well pick anyone else in that position. But whatever else the likes of Henderson, Can, and Lucas bring to the table they are not blessed with creativity so the temptation to stick with Gerrard when you’re struggling to score goals as it is can at least be understood.
I think one of the reasons Rodgers has persisted with this system is that twice now he has been days away from Sturridge returning and when he does, he’ll go with the two up top and give Gerrard more targets to hit. Injuries have got in the way of that.
So to be clear, it’s not the case that I’m insisting Gerrard should play in all circumstances. Not at all. But the criticism he is attracting is massively overstated and the simplistic alternatives being offered are less than convincing. And suggesting Gerrard is being picked because he struts around Anfield like the cock of the walk, or because Rodgers is a coward/imbecile as many have, is just pathetic. Both deserve a bit better than that whatever your player preferences.
It was a simple question Brownie. I’m not convinced by your response, it’s based on a couple of false propositions:
1. Every man and his dog knows you can’t play Lucas and Gerrard in the same team: no pace.
2. Coutinho, Lallana and Sterling are at least as creative as Gerrard, if not more so.
He was tried at No10, it didn’t work because he hasn’t got the legs.
You’re right, the argument that all the teams faults can be laid at Gerrard’s door is reductive, but he doesn’t help the balance of the team because he needs so much babysitting: look what happened when Joe Allen was subbed at the weekend and Henderson was suspended last season. Do you remember the game at White Hart Lane last season? That was the future, ideally with an upgrade on Lucas who, let’s admit, isn’t the quickest. He should start in front of Gerrard until we can sign better though.
“It was a simple question Brownie.”
And I answered it, didn’t I? I said – and not for the first time – that Gerrard in front of the back four with a one up top means he may as well not play. With two up top we stretch the game and there is more space in the middle of the park that he can move into, so we start from a more advanced base giving more scope for him to make penetrating rather than sideways passes. People seem to be accusing me of arguing that we should continue to play as we have been; that’s because they’re too busy typing out their responses to read what’s actually being said.
I wrote a couple of weeks back that I’d like to see Sterling pushed up alongside Balotelli (Lambert and Ballotelli is too static and Borini just isn’t good enough). To be perfectly honest, any combination of Gerrard/Henderson/Lucas/Can/Lallana/Markovic would do and right now I don’t think it would make that much difference which you went with. Can I like, but he’s only good for one half right now as he gets fit/adjusts to the pace. Lucas had one good game in the sort of game you’d expect your DM to excel i.e. one where you’ve been sent out on a damage limitation exercise against the best attacking team in the world. None of Gerrard, Henderson or Lallana has done anything to make a convincing argument that any is a must start, so while the case for going with Gerrard is admittedly weak, it’s not as if any of his competitors for a midfield slot has been tearing it up.
But wait a minute, that’s because Gerrard is dragging everyone else down, isn’t it? Everyone else may have been shit, but Gerrard has made them shit. That’s right, isn’t it? Even at Newcastle – when he was the only player on the pitch who deserved to pick up his salary – he was still responsible for the rest of them being shit. Tell me I’m wrong.
You’re wrong!
Not because the other midfielders have made a compelling case for inclusion, but because you refuse to acknowledge* how Gerrard weakens the team when he’s not playing well: others have to do his running for him, thus detracting from their own games, Henderson is a case in point.
* Unless I’ve missed a post in which you do indeed acknowledge the above!
No sorry, this is the received wisdom of those supporters who have decided that however crap everyone else is playing, the only solution is dropping Gerrard. You’ve created a nice little circle of logic for yourselves:
if Gerrard plays well, that’s only because other players are “doing his running”
if Henderson plays crap, that’s because he’s “doing Gerrard’s running”
Gerrard can’t play well without everyone else getting the credit, and no-one else can play badly without it being Gerrard’s fault. All bases covered. It’s as if games like Newcastle – when everyone else bar Gerrard was abject – never happened.
And this “doing his running” stuff. Gerrard is not a cripple. He’s obviously doesn’t have the motor he once did, but the idea “his legs have completely gone” is pure nonsense.
About a year ago there were Chelsea fans insisting Lampard was a spent force. Last night he played a stormer against one of the best teams in Europe (10 men or not). One of the reasons he was able to do that was the presence of Fernando, who in your parlance “did all his running” for him. Lampard is 2 years older than Gerrard, by the way, and there isn’t a pundit or journalist our neutral fan out there who thinks he performed better than Gerrard last season. So presumably Gerrard “completely lost his legs” somewhere between the end of May and the middle of August, and Lampard suddenly rediscovered his. That’s the only possible explanation, right?
Point is, all midfields are a blend of talents and skills and the fact that one player may run more and another tackles more and yet another passes more means nothing in itself.
Bear in mind when you read this that I’m NOT arguing for a continuation of the status quo. See all my other comments about the changes I’d like to see, at least until Sturridge returns and we return to 2 up top as I suspect Rodgers will. But I’m just not buying this delusion that Gerrard is the source of all our woes and that if we only dropped him and played some other combination of Lucas/Henderson/Lallana/Can/Markovic then everything would be rosey. Other people must being seeing something in those 5 that I’m not, or at least haven’t seen this season. Although, as you keep telling me, the others only play poorly *because* of Gerrard, don’t they?
Rather the opposite. If Henderson plays well it’s despite his doing Gerrard’s running. If Gerrard plays well it’s because, well, he’s played well. It’s a moot point right now because neither of them are playing well, but one offers a lot more to the team than t’other when not playing well, namely work rate.
No. Gerrard lost his legs two seasons ago, only he thought otherwise. When asked if he was ready for the Scholes role he said no, he still saw himself as an attacking midfielder. In other words, he’s deluded, which is half the problem. We then had to put up with a season of midfielders stealing the ball from and sprinting away. It was shocking and sad to behold. Brendan Rodgers finally moved him from the firing line and managed to get an almost title-winning last 6 months out of him, it should have been a glorious swansong, he deserved it, but this is a season too far.
The narrative is as follows: Gerrard’s legs go, he has a mediocre, injury-plagued season playing alongside Charlie Adam which is glossed over because of the derby hat trick. He then has another average season in which it’s increasingly clear his legs have gone, so he finally agrees to move back following, what one can only imagine was at least 6 months of Rodgers getting in his ear. He then produces some fine form from a position that requires very little pace as long as no-one marks him (remember the Villa game last season) and we keep scoring. So, in response to your post, yes his legs had gone last season, that’s why he was moved back. Isn’t that bloody obvious?
You’re building a straw man btw, I acknowledged that the Gerrard as source of all woes argument is reductive earlier. It is worth noting, however, that our season was transformed in his absence last season. He came back to a different team and a different role, he knew he had to adapt.
Forget the result. A draw is as much use as win tonight – we’ve still got to beat Basel at home at that wouldn’t have changed with a victory tonight.
But tell me: tonight, we played with Allen, Henderson and Lucas all deeper than Gerrard in what was supposedly a more defensive formation, and we still looked more fragile than a baby deer with rickets. I don’t know what the precise problem is or the solution, but whatever the answers are, Gerrard’s defensive midfield shortcomings weren’t the reason for us looking so brittle this evening.
As I’ve been saying for weeks, the fact the opposition can transition from defence to being in the faces of our back-four within a couple of seconds, extend way beyond the position played by one player – i.e. Gerrard as the DM – and if you can’t see that after tonight’s performance, you never will.
Re transitions: completely agree. it’s been a systemic problem for quite some time. It’s embarrassing how easily teams cut through us during transitions. Embarrassing. It happens time and time again, I’m more scared than optimistic when we have a corner and that can’t be right!
I do worry sometimes that Brendan Rodgers is great at improving player’s skills but not so got at setting teams up. We rarely look like a well-balanced team. Gerrard was ok tonight, Lambert and Sterling were the standouts. Despite conceding two goals we did look more solid and controlled with Lucas and Kolo in the team: shame about the keeper and set pieces eh!
Great to see Sterling find some form again and Lambert make a difference. Another diabolical substation though! What the eff was he thinking? Coutinho should have come on for the skipper, he’s at his best when the game’s stretched.
Dave, this matches my feelings almost precisely (though I saw the team sheet a little later than you).
I agree with other commenters that the Moreno/Johnson exchange would not necessarily have been game-altering. And perhaps BR thought he could sneak past Palace without his absolute best side, and have a full tank for Wednesday.
Lovren’s continuation feels inexcusable – partly due to his own poor form/mindset, but more because of Kolo’s Madrid stint and the value of a credible meritocracy.
But the monster whopper is Gerrard. Shorn of target men running in behind, he’s a Challenger II rumbling around the Afghan theatre with nothing to fire at. Beautiful, solid-looking, but built for a different playbook. (And possibly obsolete regardless).
So clearly struggling, so clearly dragging others away from their tasks, so clearly the piece you would try changing if you were in a hole the size of Brendan’s.
So clear in fact (NB. Allen substitution) that it is tempting to don tin-foil hats, and ask if something fishy is going on off the pitch…
How has Brendan who displayed such (frequent) pragmatism, ruthlessness, and flexibility last season become so stuck on Gerrard? He’s not a complete mug. Surely we’re not honestly suggesting that BR can’t see that benching Gerrard is worth a try? Are we? Really?
Not for me.
You take your pick – either Brendan Rodgers is an imbecile and coward, or Steven Gerrard wields much more power than we realise. I know which I consider the more likely.
You see, this is what pisses me off. The first few paragraphs in this comment are perfectly rational and even though I might disagree with bits of it, it’s a legit argument and well-explained. But then we get to the reasons for Gerrard’s inclusion and it has to be “either Brendan Rodgers is an imbecile and coward, or Steven Gerrard wields much more power than we realize”. No room for simple disagreement about what is best for the club; it couldn’t possibly be that however badly Rodgers thinks the team has struggled, he just doesn’t believe we’d be more likely to win a game without the captain? No, it couldn’t be innocent reasons like that. Instead, it has to be a case of either the manager’s stupidity of the player’s megalomania.
No evidence is advanced, other than the fact the team currently being picked is different to the one you’d like to see out there, but who gives a fuck about a mere detail like that? Suddenly the manager being eulogized a mere three months ago is a gutless divvy, and/or one of our greatest servants cares so little for the club he’s been at since he was either that he prioritizes his own interests. Nice.
If Gerrard ever reads comments like this, he must wonder why he never went to Chelsea when he had the chance.
since he was “eight”.
When are we getting an edit facility? :-)
I concede the conclusion was reductionist for the sake of emphasis.
Let me try to temper is slightly:
Playing a 34 year-old outfield player in every 90 minutes of every game is practically unprecedented in the Premier League era, especially considering consensus that he has been playing poorly most of the season. (NB. I have not checked these facts. At all. They’re probably wrong – roll with the gist for a second)
I find it very very strange that other options have not been tried, not once, not for a half hour. Especially given Brendan’s actions over the previous two seasons.
On balance, I think it more likely that some other factors are in play, not relating to current ability on the pitch.
These need not be nefarious in nature – I’m not talking blackmail, and obviously don’t think Stevie would deliberately damage the club. But. He has got an ego, and he’s a hell of a competitor, so let’s not pretend he would bench himself the second he thought he was past it.
So to repeat… I do feel there is likely a problem in the balance of power. Further, I don’t think it a huge stretch to see how this could have arisen – they are a similar age, SG has done a lot more in his career, BR needed player buy-in on arrival, landlord-tenant, etc.
Okay, Rommel, didn’t mean to bite your head off, but there’s a ton of pretty nasty stuff being directed at SG and Rodgers by some so-called fans. It seems it’s not enough for some that Rodgers picks a different team to the one they want to see and that Gerrard continues to be picked when they think he should be dropped; they have to tag on these imputations of bad faith or underhand dealing, and do so on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.
I don’t buy the line that Rodgers is scared to make the call on Gerrard. At the beginning of 2013/14 Rodgers told our previous year’s top scorer that he would be training with the reserves until he came out of his sulk. Because things went so well last season, the handling of Suarez has been largely forgotten about, but at the time there were many who were far from convinced that Rodgers was playing that hand particularly well. Exiling Suarez doesn’t strike me as the behavior of someone without the requisite cojones to make the big decisions.
I think it’s much more likely Rodgers is just a pretty stubborn manager who believes in certain players and will stick with them when others wouldn’t. Look at Johnson, for example. Is he too scared to drop Johnson, too? Can we put the fact that Johnson continues to be picked down his wielding too much power at Anfield, too? And Lovren?
And there’s also the other ‘Gerrard’ factor. Whatever his limitations as player these days, maybe Rodgers figures that at the start of a season when there’s been an influx of new (and some young) players, he wants the captain and most experienced player out there on the pitch with them. Maybe he thought that a back-four consisting of 3 new recruits – 2 of them pretty raw – would be better served by the presence of Gerrard nearby? And now that the start has been crappy, he’s thinking confidence would be undermined further if he sent the team out without their talisman?
No-one has to agree that the possible rationale laid out above is coherent. But if people stop to think for just a few seconds it’s pretty easy to come up with reasons why Rodgers has persisted with Gerrard that have nothing to do with Rodgers being a “coward” or Gerrard being a “megalomaniac”.
When your child isn’t doing well at school do you try & encourage & support them to do better or do you just shake your head, criticize & try to undermine them further by telling them that you knew all along that they are useless & were just waiting to tell them so.
I’m sure no one knows better than Rodgers that what’s happening isn’t good enough. It’s his job & future career even that’s on the line if he fails. Piling on pressure because of our frustrations isn’t going to improve anything.
We all know why he didn’t go to Chelsea don’t we?
The problem with Gerrard in the no10 position is that he doesn’t have the legs to do what he did best. That was painfully obvious in that cameo that got everyone so excited. He tried a give and go with Mario but couldn’t get on the end of it. That’s what he was great at, give and goes at pace. You can’t blame a man for succumbing to the ravages of time, he’s given us enough over the years, you can blame him for thinking he’s still the force of old: he is not.
What you say is “obvious” isn’t obvious at all. Gerrard was the world’s best box-to-box midfielder in his heyday, and no-one is suggesting that he can do the box-to-box thing effectively anymore. But that does not mean he couldn’t play a more advanced role than the one he occupies currently.
I completely agree that Lucas and Gerrard next to each as a two doesn’t work when we’re as blunt as we are in attack right now. But as impotent and pedestrian as we’ve looked playing that way, it actually does make us a bit more solid through the middle (see all the comments arguing we go for solidity/play like Stoke/etc.). Regardless, playing Lucas and Gerrard in two is not what I’m advocating.
I’ve been waiting for TAW to print an article like this. The players you mentioned should have been dropped a while ago. And I think that starting Gerrard is a much bigger problem than you suggest. He’s deep role makes for a weak spine defensively, he is slow on the ball in terms of his passing, is easily pressed into mistakes, and simply doesn’t have the legs for 90 minutes of constructive play.
We need more in all phases of the game from midfield–from every player in midfield. Gerrard as a starter means less in too many other areas. It’s long last the time to take him out of the starting line up and try to mold a cohesive unit out of the players who will potentially be more useful and capable next season and in the future.
Sadly, the manager seems to have lost the plot and is intent on trying the same ineffective approach to a problem that he has been unable to solve. Next week against stoke I expect to see more or less the same lineup against Chelsea…a creative black hole in midfield, the hapless center back pairing, and even Johnson starting as fullback. And Stevie will play every minite, while Joe Allen is brought on for Coutinho or Sterling because “we needed some creativity”.
BR strikes me as a young and prideful manager who does not yet have the maturity to know when it’s time to reorient his position and try to find a solution that doesn’t quite match his preconceived notion of what one *should* look like. He’s got to take some hard decisions, but I fear he’ll persist with this approach until the negative results lead to his dismissal, as I understand they did for him at Reading.
To this day, Gerrard’s & Carragher’s actions in ousting Rafa for their own personal benefit still haunts this club.
You can be damn sure Rodgers is well aware just how much power Gerrard wields, and it’s bad news for insecure managers without major titles to back them up.
Its become pretty clear to most Rodgers is fearful of dropping Gerrard, irrespective of his performances.
As such, there is no longer a meritocracy in team selections, its all about accommodating Gerrard at any cost.
The question for Rodgers is not ‘how do I get Liverpool to win’, its become, ‘how do I get Liverpool to win with Gerrard’, and that’s proving problematic, because at 34, Gerrard’s legs wont be making a Lazarus like comeback anytime soon.
For a manager to pander to one individual, at the expense of the team and results, tells me all I need to know about Rodgers.
I’m sickened by both their actions.
As long as this cronyism is protected by those who should be exposing it, this club will not move forward.
Devoid of any rational and sound decision making processes in selections, the inevitable slide has begun.
For the sake of the club, both Rodgers & Gerrard need to be shown the door at the end of the season.
This madness must stop.
if people would just shut up with the rafa stuff. The man is gone 7 years & still haunting the club.
I totally get the frustration, and watched incredulous as we again gifted yet another ordinary team yet another totally avoidable goal. We’ve all seen Lovren’s comical slip with Bolasie, but who was covering the runner as he coasted into our area in acres of space? And then Manquillo didn’t exactly spread himself with the shot either. Whether or not you loathe John Terry/Ivanovic/Cahill etc, in that situation I’d bet all you’d see would be arms and legs spread wide to block the shot. Instead Manquillo flinches and turns away. He’s been one of our more promising performers so it just shows the overall draining of confidence throughout the group.
Regarding the Stevie and Lovren question I reckon BR is weighing up the pros and cons of taking two men whom he considers ‘leaders’ out of an already stuttering group. Stevie’s qualities, grit, determination have been almost superhuman at times this last decade, and he remains one of LFC’s top 3 players of all time imho. These are qualities that BR cannot discount, and might be the reason he is so reticent to drop/hook him.
As for Lovren he’s making all the right noises – “I want to prove myself, end up Club captain” etc etc – and I suggest BR is giving him the chance to play himself into form. Sadly that’s not going to happen unless the dynamic is changed, and he is benched for a while – and it’s time Rodgers accepted that a change is as good as a rest.
We keep hearing about £120m wasted. If managers could spend money ‘buying’ confidence as a commodity, they’d spend the bulk of all transfer money on it, because it’s utterly priceless. Ref. Greece winning Euro 2004 with a team of ordinary Championship players, Southampton this season, Newcastle the last 6 weeks. And so all that is needed is for the dynamic to change, for us to stay tight as a unit, cut out (most of) the silly errors, nick a goal here and there, get a win or two under our belts, and expand from there.
It can be done, but it starts with sensible team selection. Give Toure and Lucas the chance their Madrid displays deserved, and show the group that performances, good and bad, actually have consequences.
And then let’s beat Ludogorets soundly, and move onto Stoke.
I want to prove myself and be club captain Adrian, but that’s neither here nor there!
I would play Lucas ahead of Gerrard in the DM position. Unlike Gerrard, the DM role is not something new for Lucas. Head to head, Lucas would do a better job than Gerrard.
Will Lucas offer us anything going forward? Doubt it, but since a lot of people are suggesting Gerrard cannot offer anything forward because our forwards are not making the necessary runs, there is not much to lose in playing Lucas. He is younger and is more experienced as a DM. Will he make mistakes in front of our goal, maybe he will but it will be a chance worth taking because clearly our defence will be stronger. It might also improve our attack with the likes of Henderson pushing further up.
Play Gerrard as a super sub if a game warrants it. Pull out anyone in front of Lucas and see Gerrard unleash his might unto a tiring opposition. He looks more comfortable in his original role of being involved amongst the forwards.
Will this immediately change our fortunes? Who knows, but would be better than letting things be and hoping for some miracles to happen overnight.
He might just offer us something more going forward y’know. Like maintaining possession.
Of all the things that have been going wrong this season, struggling with possession hasn’t been one of them.
Ha ha, fair enough Brownie. Stevie was hoofing a load of balls into touch on Sunday though.
I was enjoying that even before I saw my tweet – cheers, Dave!
Re Gerrard, I wonder if it’s a coincidence that his best spell last season occurred after a few games out with injury; in other words, the enforced rest did both him and Rodgers a favour.
I’m not hoping that he gets injured of course, but it looks like a break would do him and the team good. Fingers crossed that Brendan thinks so too…
Exceptional piece by Dave, even if I think it should have been a bit harsher on all concerned.
Mostly exceptional comments below too. Not seen someone handed their arse like that in ages.
In his heydays, Gerrard’s authority on the pitch could be felt even through the telly screen. More than Carra’s. You could sense it. Maybe it was all in my head, with the deep inhalings of a ciggie during games to blame, but some players new to the team would struggle to impress the captain. I used to notice Sterling, for example, shitting bricks and very rigid whenever Gerrard was in the pitch when he first started for the first team. Every once in a while his head would turn not towards the dugout, but towards Gerrard, either seeking approvals or giving the worried face look. But whenever Gerrard was not playing, Sterling played more freely, better and not afraid to make mistakes. With Suarez in the forward line, he flourished and eventually dared to celebrate a goal with much gusto. Then you could see Gerrard’s approval and appreciation of him by the ways he was mobbed by the others after a goal scored. Gerrard is not the last person to congratulate him anymore.
Then I would allow my imagination to run wild and see a mafia-like Gerrard in the dressing room, and why not? He bleeds Liverpool. And an extra long drag of the ciggie would then mess with my head further with all sort of mental pictures of how powerful Gerrard is. Carra used to be goal, but Gerrard, he was the mysteriously quiet one.
This season, all that is not there anymore. I really feel sorry for him. His ‘fuck you! This is how a goal is scored’ is not forthcoming. His desires are there, he tries but day by day you could see that the manager is destroying the reputation of a legend.
Players don’t buy themselves, and don’t pick themselves. Champions League teams are the ‘cream of the cream ‘, and to compete you have to be able to plan ahead and assemble a squad for all seasons. That means game changing – if all out attack is failing and you cop counter punches, you strengthen your defensive set up and jig the midfield etc. We are not able to do this because we have accumulated a squad that contains the kind of player that Rodgers likes, and players like Lambert and Balotelli can’t slot into such squads unless there are other ‘different’ players available. We have not bought such players, nor sought such players. It’s like trying to run a petrol-driven car on natural gas and wondering why it won’t go.
There is more going on here than simple loss of form – entire teams don’t lose form. This team has lost spirit. I have never before seen a Liverpool team take the field and expect to lose, or a manager who can’t lift their spirits. Shankly would NEVER have gone to Madrid and hoped for a respectable loss. That is what we gave sunk to.