By David Preece
CRITICISMS are to goalkeepers what cricket balls are to batsmen. You’re constantly fending them off. Sometimes the criticisms hit hard and leave a bruise on your confidence that can take a while to disperse, only massaged away by a combination of steely self-belief and improved performances. Sometimes you’re just playing at 7/10 when what’s required is a 9.
That’s what’s happening at Liverpool now, it seems. Without making horrendous mistakes, Liverpool’s Simon Mignolet has come under scrutiny by many because he isn’t quite making the difference that earns his team points.
During SKY’s MNF analyisis, both Mignolet and Tim Howard came in for a bit of stick and in retrospect, rightly so but there has to be some leeway given, especially to Mignolet in this instance. There’s no getting away from it, he was beaten by a wonderful strike. Jagielka’s goal aside, Mignolet isn’t at the top of his form. Whether he would admit it’s a confidence issue or not, there is never any smoke without fire.
If there is a dip in confidence, starting positions begin to drop back a yard as you retreat to the safety of your line so as not to involve yourself with through balls and crosses. That small percentage of doubt delays your decision making by the tiniest of fractions, but just enough to fumble that ball you should have pushed away. And as much as anything, that lack of confidence spreads to the players in front of you, perhaps not consciously but almost osmotically.
So let’s isolate Gary Neville’s criticism of Mignolet. Should he have saved Jagielka’s shot?
It would have been a world-class save but let’s break it down, first from the point of the strike. Jagielka hit across the ball making it deviate away from Mignolet, the movement becoming more exaggerated the further it flew. As the ball reaches halfway towards you, you pick up the flight of the ball and decide which hand to go with.
Bear in mind it’s then difficult to react to any further deviation from this point while you’re mid-dive.The height the ball is projected to means Mignolet was right to go with his top hand. It’s seen as flashy by many but as your body naturally turns forwards towards the ball, you can gain more height and power to deflect it away.
From hereon in I have to agree with Gary. He made a great point about Mignolet’s starting position, crouched low with his hands almost by his knees. This is where he was perfectly right to criticise. The problem here is fourfold.
Firstly, it takes much more effort and power to push off from this position and when we’re dealing in milliseconds, every minuscule error is costly.
Secondly, from such a crouched position it isn’t as easy to shift your feet quickly and your feet, you might be surprised to learn, are much more important in goalkeeping than your hands, whatever era you played in. Stood in a more “mid-height” position, knees slightly bent, chest forward, he might have got one or two extra steps in that allowed him to dive later.
Thirdly, his low hand position means the split second extra needed to even get his hands where they should have been (hip height) will mean his hands won’t get to the ball. I’ve noticed Thibaut Courtois adopts a similar stance so perhaps it’s something they have been taught from someone like Jean Marie Pfaff. Hands should only be held so low when dealing with one v one situations at close quarters.
And fourthly, as a keeper you are constantly battling to keep yourself in a balanced stance with your bodyweight slightly forward. Theory being you’re in a neutral position so you can react and move in every direction and your dive should always be diagonally forward to cut off the angle of the shot. When your hands are too low, the movement required to bring them up shifts the momentum of your bodyweight slightly backwards, the antithesis of what you try perfecting all week in training. This means your dive will then be slightly backwards making it more difficult to redirect the ball.
As for Carragher’s point about Tim Howard, he was spot on. A basic goalkeeping rule is that you should never bounce as the ball is being hit. Jimmy Montgomery taught me that 20 years ago yet many keepers have done it and still do. Mentor to Edwin van der Sar and Manchester United’s new GK coach, Frans Hoek, would actively teach the movement of a small jump so your landing coincided with the moment the ball was struck and it works because you can generate more power when you push off.
I did it and it wasn’t until I was coached by Tom Sterebo at Odense in Denmark that I adopted more of a pitter-patter American football player style when he’s preparing to move off. The theory was your feet were never off the floor long enough to be caught mid-hop like Howard.
In short, Gary was correct in his analysis. In a perfect world Mignolet might have got got closer to the ball but you also have to give credit where it’s due and wonder whether the criticism is justified. One thing I will say though, his point about Neuer holds no grounds.
Neuer’s technique and hand position isn’t exactly textbook at times. Just as we talk about the pre-shot hop, Neuer swings his arms backwards and forwards wildly as the shot is taken. Again, not technically correct but something that works for him and that’s important to remember. A keeper’s style has to suit him. What is right for one may not necessarily be right for another.
The intricacies and minutiae of goalkeeping are often boiled down to whether the spectator thinks they could or couldn’t have stopped the shot, but there’s so much more to it than just catching or saving a ball.
David Preece is a professional goalkeeper with 20 years-plus experience and has played in England, Scotland, Denmark and Iceland. He is currently first-team goalkeeping coach for Lincoln City.
This article originally appeared at http://ipreece.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/mignolet-was-gary-neville-right/ and has been reproduced with permission.
While Neville’s criticism of the specific 3 instances may show a poor starting position from Mignolet in those instances I don’t think it is fair to call this out as a weakness in his game. On countless occasions Mignolet has made terrific saves from thunderbolt shots that would have beaten a lot of other keepers. Stand out examples from this season alone are saves from Schneiderlin in our opening match, Chadli against Spurs when were just 1-0 up and a stopfrom 25 yard volley against Boro when we 1-0 (can’t recall the striker). There are several other fine shot stopping examples from last season.
What is more concerning is his positional flaws with goals conceded this season and last season. He has clear flaws with communication, anticipating through balls and coming out to collect, catching high balls delivered into the box (all of which I notice he is attempting to improve this season) but shot stopping is not an issue for me.
looks like he’s been told to change his style and be a bit like Manuel Neuer and be a sweeper keeper, come off his line a lot more. That seems to be messing up his positioning which was good last year.
BR is trying to change the defence and making a right royal cock up of it. Lovren is awful, Migs can’t do what he did last season and we’ve lost Agger and perhaps soon to lose Sakho who proved at the WC he can cut it at the highest level.
BR is the problem here.
Nice, balanced, impartial analysis.
A pair of go go gadget arms would have helped too.
Yup Kevin. See what you’re saying. I was thinking more…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E39htndsmA
I have lost confidence in Mignolet. His high floating clearances almost always put pressure on our defence. Unfortunately he just has a heavy foot and he will never get it right.
Interesting stuff, cheers.
Mignolet saved 87% of the shots from outside the box in the league last season, so he’s clearly not a complete disaster in this area. League average this season is 89%, so he’s not doing too bad.
Mignolet was beaten by a player having a Ronnie Radford moment. It was a great strike but 9 times out of 10 that ends up in row Z.
I think it is very harsh to blame the keeper and I don’t remember many others being scrutinised in such detail when they’ve been beaten by a great 20 odd yard strike.
Maybe a taller keeper could of got to it but let’s (grudgingly) give Jagielka credit and move on.
lets criticise Lovren for clearing the ball into the centre of the pitch inside 30 yards hence inviting a problem.
Every game Lovren plays he gives away a goal. No wonder Sakho was incensed he keeps getting benched for a crap Lovren and a very limited Skrtel. Are we going to lose 2 excellent CBs in one season?
It would have been a world class save and that’s the point. Is Mingolet capable of making those kind of saves that will change the outcome of games and help us win trophies. Being average at saving shots from outside the box backs it up. We need a keeper who is above average, when did not being “too bad” become acceptable?
The question I ask is “Should I listen to anything from someone who judged it wise to goad Liverpool fans?”.
Answer….no.
Like a lot of LFC fans I’m not convinced by some aspects of Mignolet’s performances (as Skrtel obviously was in the first half of the Derby!) but I am uncomfortable criticising the lad for not making a world class save (as Jamie Carragher did) and stopping Jagielka’s shot. World class saves are pretty rare and should be enjoyed when they do occur, almost irrespective of who makes them, but it’s wrong to my mind to EXPECT keepers to make them.
So these comments aren’t anti-Mignolet but more general queries.
Would a left handed keeper have had a better chance of saving Jagielka’s shot? Probably in that his stronger hand/arm would only to have moved vertically and to the left whereas the right handed keeper (preferring his stronger arm) would have had to move his right hand across his body and then vertically and to the left so losing milliseconds and inches.
But is it reasonable to expect top level keepers NOT to be demonstrably right handed or left handed? Given the importance of both their hands/arms, shouldn’t keepers train so that there is far less difference in “strength” between either arm so much so that the keeper wouldn’t favour one arm over the other irrespective of the placement of he ball but use the ” correct” arm for the circumstances?
very balanced and insightful article… My problem with the Neville critic is that it is very one sided, fair enough his starting position I very low but what was the chances of that ball going in? Let’s say Mignolet’s starting position was the same as “Nuer’s” which in Nevilles critic is “correct” the shot was taken deflected and instead of flying in Mignolet’s top left corner it was heading to bottom right corner. The goal was scored because he couldn’t get down fast enough because his starting position was too high. That’s my problem it’s easy to sit in a studio and critique how a player should have reacted, but we are talking about a worldie here, I just think it’s very harsh critism leveled at Mignolet, a goal that 9/10 keepers would save and comparing it to Nuer is just ridicules
As tonight’s showing at the Etihad proved, we should be careful of wanting goalkeepers to come off their line so eagerly. It is a fine balancing act.
I’m not being so quick to write Mignolet off, although I agree he needs to improve his performances or else Brad will be more than deserving of a 90.
clearly BR is trying to change Migs style to come off his line and position himself differently – be a bit more like Neuer, on his front foot. And it’s not working. Migs isn’t that kind of keeper. If you want that then buy a different keeper instead of breaking Migs’ excellent shot stopping.
And for the worldie, why is our new defensive leader Lovren clearing the ball by hitting out into the centre of the pitch not 30 yards out. Jagielka is a professional footballer in a team that threatens CL footy. These players do worldie type things in training every day. It’s not really a surprise.
Once again Lovren causes a goal to be conceded. No surprise Sakho was incensed that Lovren keeps getting picked ahead of him when he literally gives away goals near every game. Where’s the meritocracy?
Suso is asking the same thing. key players being played 3 times in a week, looking burnt out, like Sterling and yet Suso can’t get a game. Even when he appears to score each time he comes on. Rodgers is alienating class players and driving them out of the club.
Prior to Swansea Rodgers would get sacked because he couldn’t change things. He stuck to his guns. Just like he is now doing with the catastrophic Lovren and his actions towards the likes of Agger, Sakho and Suso.
Gary Neville is a good analyst, and I generally enjoy find what he has to say interesting, despite who he played for… but analysing Mignolet’s stance – come on – what a load of nonsense! Someone else could forward the argument that keepers who stand tall lose time because they need to dip and flex in order to then spring up to save.
Simon might not be having a great start to the season, but over analysis whether by Sky pundit or Anfield Wrap blogger shouldn’t be taken too seriously.
I’m amazed by Andrew’s stats. I thought shot stopping was his only strength. Bit like Westerveld. To find them below average (based on this season’s figures) makes me ask the question – what is it he does. I don’t really want to get on his back as he hasn’t been a disaster for us (although I’ve always had the thought that his actions at Christmas against City could arguably be considered the mistake that cost us the league). This season he appears shaken and the new defence has highlighted his short comings so the question needs to be asked. People say he’s only 26 but we’re not at the stage in our journey where we can be offering YTS’s or apprenticeships. We need a solution yesterday. It saddens me to say it but I’m not convinced he’s gonna get the aptitude needed to play for us, anytime soon.
It’s difficult to argue with Neville’s point. It may be harsh but it made me question him further in an aspect I’ve not thought about. Looking back it makes sense. So are we saying, his posture is wrong for shots, his kicking is poor, we’ve had to abandon any hope of enhancing him into a sweeper keeper, he’s terrible on crosses and his communication is abysmal which leads to a nervous defense? We’ve now seen the penalty save against Stoke was a freak event and on top of that I completely agree with Stubbs (above). This not using your left hand is outrageous. I don’t get it. If it’s my turn to go in at 5 a side I use both hands. Obviously. He’s not alone though. I know it swerved but as Neville pointed out, when it past him it wasn’t far off centre right. At the same time, on Saturday I didn’t think that at all. I thought it was an unstoppable wonder goal. Neville’s just filling my head with doubts.
There was a moment Saturday though that possibly shattered any sympathy I had and that was not coming for the Skrtel ball. A small point, perhaps, but said a thousand words. So, I’m not really sure what to think about his position. I would like to see Valdes come in (although I don’t follow football enough to know what he’s like but my mate said he was wank before his injury hence being let go) and Mignolet take a back seat but he’s unlikely to do that. I read the other day that he still hasn’t made up with Courtois because he doesn’t accept being number 2. The ironic thing is, number 2 is pretty apt when when it comes to Mignolet.
Valdes isn’t a keeper who commands his area. he’s just not that kind of keeper.
If it’s true that Migs doesn’t like being #2 to Courtois then he’s a head case. He’s nowhere near Courtois’ level. He has shot stopping but that’s suffering because BR is trying to change his keeper style.
Defensively we’re a mess. Bringing in Lovren for £20m while losing Agger and pissing off Sakho is just dumb-fuckery on an almighty scale. To be trying to re-invent Migs is just ridiculous on top of it. BR is losing it.
They haven’t spoken to one another for 8 months. Courtois said Mignolet doesn’t respect him. In fairness, it’s more down to Courtois being a bit sensitive.
I thought you liked Lovren, Jonny, haha. I think you’re wrong on this one though mate (although the confidence I was feeling in the summer is a lot more fragile at the minute). Agger’s time was up mate. Great servant but onwards and upwards for us. Just doesn’t appear that way at the minute. It will though (he says as his voice goes high pitched and he swallows hard). I’m absolutely convinced that maybe Lovren will hopefully get better.
I was a goalkeeper at a decent Level and I can tell you that he’s supposed to og With his right hand. Imagine trying to create as long at straight line as possible from Your left foot. Do it. stretch towards the ceiling. do you Reach further With Your left hand or your right? no-brainer.
Need an editor taw?!
No thanks.
Need some moral guidance TAW ?….
I’ts his position relative to the goal that makes him unable to intercept the flight of the ball. If he had challenged the shooter and rushed 4-5 yards off his line he would have hardly needed to move to stop it. His game lacks agression at the moment and that’s a mental thing more than anything
I normally like listening to Gary Neville, but I’m afraid this is a case of an analyst trying too hard. Ditto for Carragher.
It’s possible to micro-analyse every goal that has even been conceded and find fault with defence and goalkeeper, but such an approach doesn’t serve as a useful barometer of which players are any good because, in such conditions, no-one is. Analyse the angle of knee-bend of every keeper the split second before he conceded last weekend and you can make a good case for how every game should have finished nil-nil. Mignolet was crouching to try to see past players and the ball still had to hit the underside of the bar to go in. It was a freak, wonder-strike and laying any blame at Mignolet’s door is unfair and, in my opinion, borderline insane.
Whether Mignolet is the long-term answer to LFC’s goalkeeping needs is another question, but if his detractors are having to resort to using Jagielka’s strike as supposed evidence of his frailties than that suggests he may not be quite as bad as some claim.
At the risk of stating the obvious – why get shut of Reina?? A better keeper all-round, regardless of his wages, and Mignolet is left with no competition.
I’m sure I’m not the only one appreciating the irony of us supposedly now going after Valdes…
Hi All,
I was in the reserves about 8 games, and the “A” and “B” team. The days of Tom Bush and Jimmy McInnes being the coaches. 1950-1951 June. The end of the 1949 season I was playing for Babcock and Wilcox, a team of employee’s, building the Bromborough Power Station. Our last game was a Dunham Cup Final at the Shell Stanlow Sports Ground. We had finished 3 rd in the West Cheshire League one of the 3rd or 4th division lower divisions I think. I was 17 and it was the days the goalkeeper could almost be kicked to death by the opposition. Having to bounce the ball every 3 steps, leather ball,when wet it was at least 4 times heavier than it should be. Players heading the ball actually got knock out at times. “Remember Stubbins heading the goal by diving at a Billy Liddel’s free kick from the left hand corner of the penalty area facing the goal. He was out cold for a couple of Minutes. Think it was Birmingham we won 6 – 1. Well the final ended up with us winning 1 – 0. About 7,000 crowd and the guest of Honour was Joe Mercer. We scored probably about the only time we got into their area.
Blackie was our centre forward, bandiest legs, but he could bend the ball better than Beckham. They were a tough lot of guys and protected me. The cup was presented by Joe Mercer and when I got my medal he congradulated me on my game. Also he asked me how I had learnt to dive and turn in mid air using my other arm. Meaning diving to the left I could use my right hand and diving to the right using my left.. It was a guy Charlie Lord who was the gymnast instructor with the Olympic team.Plus never to stand still, walking backwards and forwards or sideways left and right. My full face always facing the ball and periphial vision to watch where the opposition or my own players where.. Joe Mercer after I started to walk back to my team said something like “maybe we have a new Frank Swift coming along after seeing the game”. I was 6ft 3 inches and fairly good size hands. I played reasonably well for the different Reds, Teams and June the 6th 1951 had to tell Tom Bush & Jimmy Mc Innes I was going to Scotland to finish my Student Graduate Engineering Apprenticeship. I played in Scotland For Kilsyth Rangers and Renfrew Juniors. I still reckon that football was as good as the Reserve English league or Central League I think it was called. In May 1953 i was playing at Kilsyth and we won 3 -0. I had to get the bus from Kilsyth to Glasgow took about an hour. This youngish middle aged man sat next to me and told me I had a very good game and he liked the way I patroled the penalty area. Alos ask where I had learnt to dive and roll in mid air using my opposite hand.. I told him the same as I had told Joe Mercer. And it gave me just about 2 ft more distance.. He told me his name was Bill Shankly and he would like me to play for his team Grimsby Town the following season. And seeing I was finishing my Studies and would probably pass them , in July. He felt I was goalkeeper he needed. I Told him I was going to sea. I think you will know what his answer was, “Ye cannae go to sea with your talent laddie, fitba more important. He then gave me a card and a sheet of Paper. With phone numbers on and what he thought of my performance.
Anyway I went to sea with the NZSC in 1953 and came ashore again in 1955 to finish my chief’s ticket. While I was ashore I had been to Anfield and Tom and Jimmy were very good, but there was no chance for me to just train, seeing I was going to NZ at the end of December. Actually to stand by a new coaster for Holm and Co. In NZ. Due to leave the end of February 1956. Anfield looked terrible the only way I can but it was “it looked neglected and abandoned. 3 nights later Tom Bush and Jimmy McInnes came round and told me Prescot Cables had been in touch with Liverpool wanting to borrow a Goalkeeper for a couple of months. As their 3 were all injured and were out for at least 6 weeks. So I played for Prescot Cables and the last game was on Boxing Day 1954. I Played in NZ for the top Wellington Team till 1972 then took up refereeing. Managed to play fo the Wellington Rep Team and was reserve reserve fr the New Zealand team 4 times.
In 1974 My wife, eldest daughter and myself made a trip to the UK. Got in touch with Ronnie Moran and he invited me to the ground with my wife and daughter on the Wednesday before the Reds Played Arsenal. We got to Anfiel just after 10 am. The 4 of us had a chat. then a young lady came in and she was going to show my wife and daughter the Trophy Room which was starting to grow. What a difference from when I had last been there.
Ronnie and I went on to the pitch via the players entrance. I touched the Liverpool Crest and Ronnie said why did you do that. The only answer I had was “I don’t know” We walked round the pitch and John Toshack was doing some light training he came over and said Ken Berry good to see you. We had met in NZ when he was over there with “Senior moment” can’t remember the team Cardiff maybe. We were taliking away and I asked Ronnie what Tommy Liddell, Billy’s brother was doing and it was quite a shock when Ronnie told me he had died a few years back. We were chatting away and Ronnie turned and said. Here’s the Boss coming and he’s got your wife and daughter with him. As they got to within a few feet, Ronnie went to Introduce me Shanks. Quick as a flash Shanks says” I knew this laddie and he would’na play for me at Grimsby and went to sea instead. I bet your glad you didn’t stay as you might have got blamed for my team going into the 2nd division. But then You night have just saved them. Also Ray Clemence can do your changing arms faster than you could. Ronnie, John and I were in Fits with some of the things he came out with. His wife had arrived and he invited us out for lunch with his wife. It was just in Walton we had a lovely 1 1/2 hours with them then they dropped us back at the ground to pick up our car. But when we first sat down his wife said. Rita, Karen we will just enjoy talking to each other, as that man of mine can only talk abut football and I think yours is the same Rita. Well thats my story I think its the first time I written it down. Best Regards Ken Berry
ps I think Mignolet is a good average Keeper. But we do need an exceptionally good above average keeper.
Which Reina was.